The 5 BIG Issues With Cataclysm That MATTER
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2023
- Many of us are expecting Cataclysm Classic to be a follow up to Wrath (will likely find out at Blizzcon) and like any expansion, Cata is not without issues.
Today I go over 5 of the things that I could see as being problematic with this version of WoW
This is The 5 BIG Issues With Cataclysm That MATTER
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It's worth noting that the 'break yourself upon my body, feel the strength of the earth' boss is in this xpack.
Back in the day my guild used him as a tank-test. Before taking a tank into raid, we would see how he did in Stonecore.
why do i remember this 😂
That boss was brutal. so many wipes, so much fun.
Ah.. the "Make your overgeared healer WORK" boss
*shudders*
The 10% guild gold bonus really puts the concept of “10% for the Big Guy” into a new perspective!
😂
Republicans try not to think of Hunter Bidens cock challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
😂😂😂
Biden just smiled upon you.
Some of my favorite WoW memories include taking Cata Heroics on my Prot Pally. The feeling of a group who was able to get past the first boss of Stonecore was incredible. Heroic Halls of Origination felt like a raid to me and still stands as one of my favorite dungeons to this day.
I remember loving Archaeology on my Hunter as DPS queues for Heroics were close to an hour for the first month or so of launch. I leveled Arch so fast and got so much cool stuff! I always like having stones available to make dungeons easier for the group. Felt like a profession that actually benefited you outside of gear/consumes.
I think with the attitude change of the player base, Cata will be better received this time around. We know what's coming, and even Dragon Soul won't be hated nearly as much and may in fact be a high point for the rerelease.
meh, I dunno about the dragon soul, I always felt they completely botched up the whole massive dragon fight on a conceptual level already, I just couldn't have cared less for whatever the fuck you're actualy fighting in the game (not to mention 'the green Jesus syndrome' really shone through in that cinematic and story-telling at the end was, again, not engaging to me. But honestly the first 2 tiers are (very) fondly remembered!
I actually hated cata dungeons. In wrath the most fun was to queue up into heroics in full ICC heroic gear as a prot pally and pulling and running non-stop to instead this CC- heavy dungeons in Cata with struggles non-stop
I remember healing them after the nerf to mana, actually had to pay attention. Healing was 100% mana management and zero damage. It was very different. Holy Charka priest was awesome!
Dragonsoul as a whole wasn’t terrible, but madness of deathwing specifically was awful. It was such a let down after spine.
Like wow. Im fighting his ankles. Cool.
@dmv4343 thats why a lot of people like cata because it brought challenge. Nothing is wrong with enjoying easy content at all. I enjoy it at times. But majority of the time. I like a hard fought victory.
I absolutely LOVED release heroics in cata. It's when I first learned how to tank and while they were brutal, they were also the most fun I've ever had doing dungeon content at any point in this game ever. If cata classic happens, I genuinely hope they launch with pre-nerf heroics.
People really gas up the difficulty of the 5 mans, but in reality it just was that the LFG system would pair you up with any class/spec that had x role filled. You could end up forming groups with no cc for a trash pull that made things insanely difficult, or people who just never ccd in the first place.
I am in the full belief that if LFG didn’t exist, people wouldn’t have felt so negatively about them. But this is coming from someone who casually rolled through all of these at 14 years old with their guild just fine on both a restoration shaman and arms warrior.
Ghostcrawler was genuinely right lol
Even normal Cata dungeons were really nice. And Uldum is one of my all-time favourite xp zone.
Had so much fun in the pre-nerf heroics. They were in the exact sweet spot of difficulty. Players had to use their full toolkits and pay attention. CC, interrupts, and target priority mattered.
Too much of wow is just go fast and aoe, and it's boring as shit. Cata was the antithesis of this stupid mindset.
Same and tbh they wherent even that hard, maybe around m+16 level. But whats better is it was good for the game, as a lot of players need that early kick in the teeth to know that they must learn the actual game instead of just trying to face roll everything.
@@theformuoli6397 thats such a good point lmao i was super young aswell and I did ok, a lot of people really just dont want to learn tacs.
One of my biggest gripes about cata wasn’t actually in cata. I thought archaeology was really fun and they did really fun things with it in cata but in every expansion thereafter it became an afterthought. In cata it got you toys, mounts with unique mechanics and even a few pieces of gear. Thereafter it was just a few cosmetic items and some achievements.
Week 1 Cataclysm Heroic dungeons were so goddamn much fun. Next to getting Dragonwrath and oneshotting people in BGs, they were probably my fondest memories from that expansion.
cata heroics are one of my favorite memories of the entire game
Absolutely. First step in and people are using raid markers on mobs. Boss fights were actually fun, couldnt just stand still and shot till dead.
But that was actually not fun, mechanics killed all the fun in the dungeons that previous expansion had.
@@dmv4343 No way! actually having to think was a nice change to the crapfest that was Wrath & BC.
@@kaineskeptic6484 early heroics in tbc were pretty hard compared to wrath at least
I know the guild gold generation was abusable, but it made it easier to offer guild repairs for people that actually contributed. We had a specific tier for raiders that maintained a certain level of activity. As far as difficulty of content goes, it was hard but fun. I don’t think they’d be a problem that other than the need to actually use CC in dungeon finder. I would hope they’ll try to get 10 and 25 man raids a bit closer in balance, though. The difficulty swing was wild between the two. My guild set up for 10 man because we thought, like WotLK, it would be the easier difficulty. Halfus and magmaw taught us otherwise.
Exactly this. It also made it infinitely easier to keep elixirs and other consumables stocked up. My guild back in the day did the exact same thing, we had a Raider rank that got given consumables, repairs, and our tanks were thrown all sorts of good shit.
Cata was when I resigned as an EU forum MVP. Partly that was due to more work and studies, but in all fairness I also lost interest in the game. The community side of things has always been important to me, and with the cross-realm LFD (and later LFR) tool, there was no longer any sense of people actually attempting to behave and be recognized as good players. It was simply "click the button -> teleport -> get loot -> leave without saying bye".
I also have a love for the original Azeroth, and seing it being changed was a let-down for me.
i remember being a kid and trying to faceroll dungeons and being shocked at how difficult some of them were. looking forward to a ramp up in difficulty
I owned a guild that was realm first to level 25 on Wyrmreat Accord realm. I was quite surprised when it popped up. Unfortunately the guild is now part of history. Thanks for the video.
Cata at launch was great. And to me, the elemental zones were fantastic. I really, really enjoyed Vashj'ir. Dungeons were... what you expect for a dungeon dammit!
It was a magical experience. The raids were rock solid hard as well, even on normal.
So long as Blizzard don't start nerfing immediately I think a lot of people will be happy. Nerf if after Firelands, sure, I guess. Just don't cave in to the people who say its too hard.
fuck yes, first tier dungeons (heroics) were HARD and FUN, and raids were great too at that time, came here to write a comment along those lines but I'll just bump this one up =D
it was not stop copium, zones are HORRIBLE same for dungeon, dogshit game
Vashj'ir was trash, but I loved doing Well of eternity dg.
@irmaodofox I've never understood why people hate vashjir, the only reason I've heard is that hyjal is faster therefore vash is trash. I understand it's not as efficient but it's the only underwater zone in the game and it's so unique and beautiful. Hyjal is just another burning steppes, it's not unique or special like vashjir imo
I still have PTSD from doing grim batol heroic the first month of cata. Even votrex was a 100% wipe on like 4 packs if you didnt CC and interrupt properly
All the bosses in that dungeon were dangerous. The trash was dangerous too - though you could remove most of it with the dragon event (assuming no-one screwed up). Its probably 'the' dungeon of the expansion in terms of innate challenge.
Honestly, I'm surprised to see the 10 man raiding incentive brought up as a negative despite the balancing issues. That was my favorite part of Cata, personally. 10M is just a more intimate experience. You get to know people better. It's easier to have a conversation while playing together, whereas 25M is usually a "clear comms" situation of sitting in a discord call with mandatory push to talk so that people aren't speaking over each other. I clear both 10 and 25 of all current content weekly, have done for all of Wotlk. Definitely look forward to the 10M runs more, though. 25M for me is just a loot grind. 10 is where the journey with friends is at.
I00% agree.
I'm torn about the 10 vs 25 divide that occurred during Cata and MoP. It basically rendered 25 man raiding a niche segment. I'm glad its at 20 man mythic.
It kind of undermined the purpose of 25m guilds pretty hard but I kinda think if they are open to adjusting stats as it is, increasing the 25m hc loot by 6 item levels wouldn’t be seen as a negative in anyway. 10m hc loot still is near bis, 25m hc stays relevant, gg
Depends on your guild. My 25 man guild banters a lot and we only clear comms during difficult progression - which my 10 man guild also does despite being more casual in nature.
As for the loot - its great as it is. 25 man gets more drops so you're more likely to see something useful drop - whereas you might be waiting a long, long, long time for an item in 10 man despite having no competition.
And merging the lockout encourages having alts raiding. Which is great for those with the time to level alts.
@@theformuoli6397 That's not a fair compromise as it just kills 10m raiding flat out. 25m already had higher loot quantity than 10m did which off-set gearing speed in favor of 25m.
People don't like getting weaker loot but are more tolerant towards slower loot acquisition.
I think the player base originally blamed Cataclysm for ruining the game, but now that I've had a second run through Wrath I'm not so sure it was Cata. I have to applaud Blizzard for trying to build guild spirit and group participation again, even if it didn't turn out that way.
They have already said in interviews that they will be bringing back RDF etc so pretty much trashing the value of Guilds while pretending they matter...
@@josephteller9715 RDF is 5-man content. Last I check raids were 10 and 25-man.
honestly, the reason i hated cata is becouse they destroyed my beloved Barrens.
Everytime i was feeling down, i would just level up an alt in the barrens.. i wouldn't progress it past 30.. but damn leveling in the barrens, with this chill music, finding people along the way.. it always felt like home.
I felt like my home was taken, so i hated it.
Cata is a great expansion the problem is wrath was top tier so very hard to live up to. The actually hard heroics and all the raids were sooooo good. Yes dragon soul IS good but unfortunately the weakest raid in the expansion so it just looks bad by comparison.
It was the expansion right after this, Mists of Pandaria. Cata was basically more of the same following the recipe of the expansions before it, no massively changed gameplay functions, no massively new features, just new areas, new dungeons, new raids, new mobs. Sure they had the guild overhaul, but I don't think anyone found that to be an issue. Only debateable point was the barrens rework but at the same time I personally liked the Barrens changes, so I feel that's definitely a hit/miss point depending on who you are and not nearly as offensive as the game goes on to become later on.
My only big complaint with cata was the old world zones changing. I guess it was a necessary evil, but the nostalgia of the old zones was lost somewhat.
That for me is actually the biggest pro's of the expansion.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the zones updated again a decade following the Cataclysm, after the land has started to heal.
Imo they should just throw chromie in somewhere and allow players to go between them
The new zones were actually so much fun, especially the new old world dungeons
Honestly, Blizzard is in a very unique situation here. They have an extremely rare opportunity to do what most ganes never get to, in working on fixing issues in old expansions. I know it's unrealistic, but I do hope Blizzard has at least considered the idea that they can very much work on content they didn't have the development time for in previous expansions. People say Warlords of Draenor was an expansion that had too many ideas that couldn't be put in the final cut. Well if Blizzard chose to, this hypothetical WoD Classic could actually have those features. Same with a Cata Classic.
I would really like to see them redo the class changes
The thing I remember most was the broken rework of the old world that made leveling a new character incredibly painful and the overly hard dungeons at the beginning that made 5-man pugs not worth bothering trying, so you had to do it with guildies or reliable players you already knew you could count on. While I had raided in the past, I gave it up sometime during Wrath, so I never saw any raid content in Cata until LFR. A lot of people just did LFR to see the content, so failing and / or not getting such great loot was okay if you were no longer progression focused.
That and Cataclysm still suffered from the same issue Wrath did - being endgame focused, particularly raids and dungeons and trying to make the game harder, it was all bad for the game overall.. The only upside of Cata was the leveling due to quest and zone revamp, it was at least ''refreshing'' seeing as the zones had actual stories, but it was still too fast. I leveled plenty back then, though abandoned every character at max lvl as there was just no incentive to do anything. Despite some immersion, the game still pushed you towards raids, dungeons, endgame grinds...meh, it's just not Classic unfortunately, where the world and the community itself is the game...and not just raidlogging. Did some heroic dungeons....but that got boring after a few times. It was never about ''diffculty'' or complexity, most players don't want that...but simplicity and fun engagement as a game-wide community.
I really started raiding during Catalysm and have a lot of good memories from that. Im excited to play it again and with some changes I think it will be a real good experience.
10 man raiding being viable will be huge for my friends - its sooo much effort maintaining a 25 man sr roster
xd on vanilia you have 40
@@PIXAGODdifference being you can take 39 apes to a vanilla raid
Mass teleport reminds me of the protoss cinematic in legacy of the void in sc2. Mass Rezz is Anduin in BFA Cinematic
Cata as an expansion meant less for me as a game as the people I got to play with again, as a sort of reunion expac. I had quit in TBC and not returned until the start of Cata so my memories are of the guildies and good times downing actually hard content again. I also felt far more seasoned as a player and was empowered by my own success as a raider doing heroics. I think for me it was actually the pinnacle of WoW and my fondest time with the game. Sure the expansion sucked for people who had played through WotLK but for me it was a fresh start and loads of fun. If I could have that same crew in classic again, I'd 10/10 do it all over again.
Surprised you didn't mention Transmog.
This definitely shifted away that MMO feel and made the game feel like 'modern wow'
i feel like transmog can be seen as peak MMO experience tho. Having your character look the way you want seems like nothing but upside.
Transmog makes the game infinitely better. Appearances matter so much.
25m doesn't just have more loot per player, but because it gets significantly more rolls on the same loot table as 10m, 25m achieves bis exponentially faster. This combined with more battle rez's per player and generally easier boss fights, I'm worried guilds will feel forced to continue doing 25m. GDKP's will absolutely be doing 25m, it's a no brainer. There will be items that 10m guilds never see drop a single time in addition to items that no one can use. 10m Cata loot gripes is what gave rise to bonus rolls in MoP.
Despite all of those advantages, 25m nearly went extinct midway through Cata, as all but the most hardcore and established 25m guilds died. The players voted with their actions, and yet, the devs would ultimately side with the 25m guilds when they killed 10m raiding in WoD. The only problem with 10m was that 25m was siphoning development time away from it when 25m was a ghost town.
I really liked Blackwing Descent and Bastion of Twilight. They were really good raids (after they were fixed). The odd thing for me was that the mother of the black dragon flight was below Cho'Gall and not below Nefarian 2.0.
I had forgotten how challenging the heroics were early on, I remember it being challenging and a lot of fun!
Im a Cata diehard enjoyer, I fully acknowledge that my love for the expansion is through rose tinted goggles, but my God it was so good. RBG's were absolutely the pinnacle of wow for me, just unbelievably intense. I remember our guild was pushing for R1 on the realm and top 0.5% on the battlegroup when we would run into the other highly rated guild on our server, it was pure rivalry and every game felt like mainstage blizzcon.
Not to mention a ton of classes start to get more in-depth and feel more modern, genuinely brought WoW to life for me from a gameplay standpoint.
BRING ON CATA.
No. Bury it in history. Short of Shadowlands it was the WORST expansion on multiple levels. Let it die and be forgotten.
Mained my rogue through that expansion. The moment I realized recuperate was a thing, cataclysm became a rogues paradise. Sub felt good, tsunami assassination rotation felt good. Then the announcement of legendary daggers, that xpak was just loaded with happy memories.
Despite not playing very much of actual Cata, I did have good memories from those years. I remember joining a level 20 guild only for the heirlooms (I think that toon is still in that guild to this day, but I don't ever log in anymore). The level 70 twinking scene took off in Cata as well, with TBC becoming the new baseline game, Exp Off toons at 70-74 played with account-capped toons at 70. I joined a guild for 70 BGs, even did some rated BGs with my ~50% PvP DR prot pally. Also made a 71 DK with Nifflevar's Bearded axes from archaeology. Those were fun times. Content specific to Cata though, I barely touched.
Did you forget ICC heroic dungeons existed in Wrath? FoS was the easier if the three but still quite easy to die in a couple spots and especially on the last boss if DPS isn't paying attention which felt like was all the time back in the day for me as a healer. It was quite a wake up call for everyone just like MT was at the end of BC.
I feel you missed a big one. The fact they tore the world apart. That was one of the big selling points to play classic again. To be able to run the old zones.
I love cata one of my favorite expacs ever, ive been excitedly waiting for it since tbc came out, hopefully we actually get it. The only problem is i will not be playing it at all without Dungeon finder
I remember in og cataclysm when the guild leveling system got out there was a guy on my server just making an absolute zerg guild. Once the guild had reached high enough lvls to purchase the mount (i think dark pheonix and some other? ), he kicked everyone and sold access to the guild for gold lol.
I feel like a big thing missed here also is the leveling experience becoming constantly easier over expansions. Been playing some vanilla HC on the official realms recently and it's so much fun for being WoW even without the endgame content. I feel like even in Wrath, the leveling is already rather easy and from what I've heard it's just going to get even easier in Cata.
Obviously not expecting something like having to drink or eat after every 3 mobs, but it's really refreshing to be able to get value out of cc such as frost nova and polymorph, or consumables (not to mention profession items being actually useful).
Main difference for me is that Wrath leveling is easy and I wished there would be more, while Cata leveling is easy but getting it done was a relief. It was dull as hell. And the underwater area was a good idea but past the novelt factor, it just doesn't work well with WoW fight mechanics.
i say they re-add some of the cut content from the cataclysm beta. Like the Titan Rune System and the Abyssal Depths raid.
I personally did not like the new expansion being broken up into separate zones all spread out and Really didn't like the revamp of Azeroth. The removal of class trees was also a Huge negative to Cata, can't believe you left that one out. I stopped playing a few months into Cata then came back for MoP.
The only thing I remember of Cata is the PVP
Considering what they did with wrath, I'm not sure what to expect. TBC was still in spirit of classic. But wrath is more close to retail.
When I came back during cata I rerolled on Illidan and I got invited to Blood Legions alt guild, it had its perks for sure like achievement runs in Ulduar for Proto drakes..was a lot of fun actually
I think what’s benefited Cataclysm is that, for as controversial as it was for its time, it’s failures seem so trivial compared to what happened with other expansions down the line as well as the overall perception of Blizzard changing over the following expansions from this infallible titan of gaming to a fallen entity that’s despised and Mocked ceaselessly.
Like after Cataclysm, you Had Mist of Pandaria being a perfectly good expansion but players were turned off by the pandas and more chill locations thinking it was a joke, Warlords of Draenor had barely any updates and was disappointing despite the hype, Legions was probably the most well lauded expansion since WotLK, and then… BFA and Shadowlands. Yea… tough scene. Before finally settling on Dragonflight which isn’t a dumpster fire like it’s older siblings but also not doing anything particularly exciting so it’s kinda like MoP where it’s not making everyone rush back to play WoW.
So that’s basically 3 outright bad/hated expansions, 2 expansions that don’t get the love like Vanilla/TBC/WotLK but aren’t too hated either, and then 1 that most people would unequivocally call good. You could say that’s a generous 3/6 or 1/6 if you’re that big of a hater.
Genuine question: wouldn’t releasing Cataclysm Classic defeat the purpose of Classic? Like that expansion remade the old zones? Like if you enjoyed Thousand Needles in Vanilla then you probably won’t like Thousand Needles in Cata?
That is a good point.
Maybe a bold move by Blizzard would be to fork here, and attempt a new expansion based on WotLK?
What about the drastic mastery changes through the expac, like ret got a full rework early on and then was heavy nerfed are they just going to use the last patch content again,
People hate on LFR but that shit was dope for gearing up alts. I was clearing heroic raids in cata and mop and utilized the shit out of lfr for my alts. It was especially useful in SoO as so mained a restodruid but we really needed a disc priest for hc blackfuse so I’d come in on my priest for that fight (atonement was broken af lol). The lfr gear was super helpful for that, particularly the difficult to get trinkets.
I still remember when 4.0.6 came out and Totalbiscuit fucking lost it; I still remember him showing the TL;DR of the notes and it was like "All things nerfed by 66%" instead of any written text.
Heroic Deadmines felt like a damn raid. I remember fondly nights of tanking it and helping new players learn the mechanics. Or panicking as a healer multiple times during Heroic SFK.
They have to fix healers in early 5-mans and raids. That was rough, and took way too long to fix originally.
Cata... the expansion that makes me consider going and playing Hard Core Classic...better to fall back then misery forward. Especially since they will Hyper Monotorize Cata.
I'll always remember the good times when guilds really mattered and the world was seething with players to create a memorable experience. LFD and in extension LFR, changed those experiences for me. There was also the fact of being able to group across servers. This made grouping and eventually raiding an one-off experience where you, in practice, did not build any connections. Together with not being required to level characters from 1 to 60, all kinds of boosting tools and the resulting urge in the player base to get to max level as fast as possible, made pre-Cata but really, pre-Wotlk the most enjoyable era for me.
The Cataclysm world is ironically more nostalgic since I haven't seen it since, well, Cataclysm, but I already played the vanilla world on some private servers before Classic was relesed.
honestly flex raiding is exactly what i'd like to see put into all raids (yeah even vanilla->cata raids). the hardest part of raiding back in the day was dealing with the roster boss. i'm really glad you covered the 10 vs 25 raiding thing fairly. i used to see so many people talk down to 10 man raid teams as though they weren't real raiders. honestly for me the the problems with both raid sizes were exactly what you listed. in 10 man you have no room for even 1 derp player, as well as buff issues and the like, while 25 player had space issues on some bosses.
I can't wait to be able to finally play Dragon Flight "Classic" Nostalgia for the win those were some good times.
LFD is being added to Wrath Classic. Blizzard just confirmed it.
I loved Guild achievements! It gave us something to do on none raid nights.
The evening that we decided to kill the 100,000 critters for the achievement was so cool. It took about forty minutes, no big deal, but there were fifty of us scattered around the world killing critters. It was fun.
I never played Cata back when it originally launched. I'm looking forward to playing it this time around
i'm so hype for cata. BoT and BWD my favorite raids and i wish i had a nice enough computer/wasn't such a noob to raid heroic back then. now am gonna own....
the ability prune to me was 1 of the worse things to happen in wow, shaman went from 4/5 action bars or like 30 binds to not able to fill 1 bar it was comical when your whole class gets deleted
The only and I really do mean, the only way Cataclysm classic would be remotely worth it, would be if they actually added the missed raid tier (the same goes for a WoD remake, if it included the cut content).
Otherwise, it feels like basic classic is showing it's faults and cracks and going past Wrath (which felt like a flop) is only going to highlight that more so.
Unpopular opinion: cata was actually so dope
No, it wasnt
Cata was a great expansion just had a lackluster last raid.
Aside from dragon soul, I loved the raids in cata. And the changes to lvling and the world I enjoyed as well.
@@derpd-yu3xqagree
@@anthonyrinaldi8242This is the truth. The 1st raid tier and Firelands were awesome.
I watched it all. Great stuff.
3:21 - Guild Gold - I agree. With RMT and all, the gold inflation is going to sky rocket. Get rid of it or cut it down to like 0.5% tops.
5:15 - Heroic Dungeon Difficulty - This won't be an issue for Classic. We are better players all around. The average player today is much better than an average player back in 2012.
8:25 - LFR - Honestly, I don't think anyone would really care for LFR to be in the game. It's like a swing decision. Could go either way. Just remove tier for LFR not to force raiders into it.
12:00 - 10 Man Raiding - I love it. I love Flex raiding more, but Roster Boss is a tough one for Wrath. Even right now during TOGC. And 10m is harder than 25m. So really, most guilds will stick to 25m raiding regardless. But no point in taking this option away from people.
14:02 - 4.3 Hour of Twilight- Just like you said, it can be shorter if Blizzard decides to do so. But with "Classic", they most certainly could make it shorter to avoid content drought.
oh there will be people whining about LFR, hell there are people who whine about LFR today and want it to disappear.
I really enjoyed Cataclysm Heroic Dungeons, especially with friends. However, I feel like the difficulty of them caused a lot of toxicity amongst players in LFG. Probably because people were so used to steamrolling Heroic Dungeons in Wrath. Unfortunately, the toxicity got so bad I ended up leaving WoW before the dungeon nerfs came. The Heroic Dungeons were great though and I hope to have a better experience the 2nd time around.
Cata is the one expansion I didn't play when it was current and I'm not exactly interested in trying it postmortem.
A note about "unnerfed TBC": this was deceptive from Blizzard. Even though the instances themselves were unnerfed:
1) players got from day 1 all the buffs that were only due to happen in the later phases, effectively making heroics much easier.
2) expansion-wide nerfs were applied from day 1, affecting heroics too ⇒ good examples are the removal of 6k-Cleave, which most elites - world and instance - had in vanilla TBC, and the change to agro mechanics : in vanilla TBC, an incapacitated tank lost agro, causing mobs to rush towards the healer - distributing aforementioned Cleave along the way - this required good coordination, reflexes and proper CC.
Amusing seeing your use the Yogscast's old Cata footage in the HC dungeon section
I was just making a comment about Tol'Barad under Madseason's video and this comes out
Those Cata dungeons were hard and some of my favorite times , some dungeons were long but in all it was fun to actually get challenged
I feel like the guild gold bonus is probably the easiest of these issues to fix. Nerf the bonus from 5/10 to 1/5 (or similar) and restrict it to gold drops in guild-majority groups. This drastically lowers the amount of gold coming into a guild and requires that the guild actually work together to receive it, thus making shill guilds a much less profitable and far more time-consuming venture.
Cata was my favorite PVP era, both bgs, rbg, and arenas were popping off. Idk if I would play if there wasn't LFG for dungeon tho, with no LFG it makes everything so annoying on WOTLK and as someone who only has a few hours to play a week it just takes up so much time. There is nothing stopping users from not using LFG if they don't want to, but it should be added for casual players.
"Not Without Issues" is an understatement.
Cataclysm was the best expansion actually
@@MoonTurky Not for me and my friends... we walked away from the game for a while entirely and didn't come back until MOP.
From someone who played since classic, I still stand by my statement years and years ago. Cata was the last great wow. Everything up to it was awesome, everything after was basically just shit molded into something half acceptable. I did hate the gold skimping by guilds.
Here's how I would change two of the big issues... Cash Flow and 10/25 man raiding.
Cash Flow - Instead of 10% of the amount looted make it 1% and instead of generating gold have it be a credit towards guild repairs up to a certain amount of gold. That way there's a limit but it still exists as a perk.
10/25m Raid - They should just implement the flex raiding system similar to how it is right now in retail but not include personal loot. Instead just have extra pieces drop based on a certain threshold of players.
As far as heroics being difficult, they should be. However, I think with the H+ system that WOTLK has they'll likely roll in the hard aspects of heroics into that system.
I'd love to try cata, I only played on private wotlk servers and came to retail at the beginning of wod.
i just hit my limit. after icc, if there is no stay in wotlk era. im sadly out. it was fun back in the day and it is now. but all good things come to an end.
Pre nerf heroics in Cata meant triage healing, a much more fun and enjoyable style to spikey damage. As someone whose healed for 17 years, that was one of my favourite times.
And as someone who played holy paladin and could really only heal one person at a time and had to wait to build combo points to do it, it was extra intense triage! Way too stressful than I wanted out of my for-fun video game, so if they go through with cata difficulty again I'm sure as hell not playing paladin again
Yeah it was super enjoyable to have just enough mana for maybe 8 or 10 heal casts and then you were tapped and the group wiped. Tried as a druid, priest and shaman back then and nothing worked well. Even with perfect play, no overhealing, leaving dps at low hp to prioritize the tank, sometimes it just didn't matter. You didn't have enough mana or healing power to do the job. I quit Cata after a few weeks.
-issue #1 cash flow: remove from game
-issue #2 hard mode dungeons being actually hard is fine, wotlk are hilariously ez
-issue #3 LFR: its a tool, you could use it or... no. But moving players ino a good "ingame" voice chat would help a lot, letting players to select their languaje besides their role.
-issue #4 10 and 25 with the same loot: i like it, if you see the stadistics from 25hm clears on wotlk, youll see that a big part of the community couldnt break that wall, having the opportunity to grab the best items without doing gdkp sounds exactly like perfect solution to wotlk
-issue #5 players didnt like lst phase of content: nothing to do here since they will copy & paste again, everything else have an ez fix if they actually work
Thinking about Cata makes me want to go rewatch TB's Cata leveling videos.
:(
now I'm sad
Cant wait for MoP classic and get into SoO Mythic , that raid was so fun
Cataclysm without LFR, with improved 5-Man-Heroic(+?) and keep the 10-25-Man Raids with all the loot, difficulty and so on (10-Man was harder than 25, this was pretty fun imho).
This could be a nice WoW Classic Addon.
The biggest issue with cata was resource allocation. If you go back and watch cata blizzcon, you will see that 75% of thier sales pitch is leveling focused. The problem is, everyone had max toons. They talk about the new races, they talk about the new class race combos, they talk about the world revamp. But most of the playerbase wont interact with that stuff in any meaningful way. As a result the endgame suffered massively. T11 is in the conversation for best of all time the reason that that is is it brought back the idea of multiple raids making up the tier that was lost in wrath. However that idea falls apart in FL where there is only 7 bosses. Clearly there was suposed to be a vashir water based raid to complete the neptolon storyline. You see blozz learning from this mistake is MoP goesing from the multiraid tier 14 to throne of thunder with 15 bosses. I hope they complete tier 12 and 13 and add aditional raids come classic cata
You posted this video including a lack of LDR after we have an official announcement of LDR coming in ICC patch. Kudos, just really great stuff .........
RDF didnt come in wrath till ICC patch anyways back in the day but its been said its coming anyways in next patch of wrath classic so we probs will get Raider finder in cata again aswell
The problem with the difficulty I had with Heroic Cata dungeons was some group comps made them an absolute slog. I was a DK, so I pretty much brought no CC to the dungeons. It made me dread doing my daily run for badges with randoms. So, I forever loath Cata dungeons.
Best dungeon experience was 4.0.3, even though I wiped God knows how many times in SFK for example (the 1st boss there was notoriously difficult) or Grim Batol. But it made me re-evaluate myself as a player, what I can do and what I should do, how should I use my abilities, what should I concentrate on etc. It also required group coordination, today's M+ is no where near it. Sure, it's more difficult but just because of more annoying mechanics added to the game plus the increase in overall damage and health of mobs. In 4.0.3, you had to think about the interrupt cycle sometimes, what to interrupt and what to let go, you had to actively CC mobs so you don't get overrun and track those CCes so that they don't break and re-CC if they break to early, you had to know what kind of debuffs to dispell, you needed to track mob buffs to make it easier for tanks and healers. It was a much more fun gameplay than M+ today is. Healers were also doing their role as healers, because self healing was just starting to be brought into the game for many classes, so you were always engaged. As a person geared up, dungeons became easier, but you still needed to think about all the things listed here. I kinda miss that time.
I enjoyed Cata more than most expansions and it might even be my favorite. Though the issues are still quite clear and inarguable. Here's to hoping it turns out great if Blizzard decides to go this route. I know I will be rolling a worgen day one if it arrives.
I loved the start of cata, played a resto shami, didn't play much during wotlk except a bit at the end and at the start (boring tundra leveling was so bad and the general culture shock in the change of pace of the game, i quit).
Let me tell you I loved the dungeons and heroic dungeons. Everything just felt so tight and right. Mechanics mattered, classes had to use their toolkit. Even with the LFG tool buff they introduced, the dungeons could still be pretty crisp.
The ZG/ZA patch was very fun as someone who hadn't played vanilla. Too bad only that the ZA/ZG gear made all other hc dungeons redundant due to the increased ilvl.
Fireland was boss. One of the best raids ever for me. Fireland daily zone was so cool too, it was a great throwback to quel danas.
Dragonsoul is where it all took a big turn for the worst... the 3 new dungeons were cool but that's where it ends. Dragonsoul was a TERRIBLE raid, so fucking uninspired, boring. Fly from platform to platform and kill the bosses.. deathwing fight was just whack, didn't feel as epic as I imagined fighting a big ass dragon would've.
And lastly the worst thing was the LFR. Getting tier sets from LFR was just terrible terrible, made doing LFR virtually mandatory at the start of the patch and it was a complete snoozefest already at that tme..
For me the #1 issue with wotlk+ is the gear inflation that still resides in retail today. Every new patch there's pretty much a complete gear reset, almost nothing remains bis from the previous raid tier. Kinda makes the game feel like a waste of time. Classic I got the kazzak legs before bwl came out and wore it till tbc lvl 70 even.. Nelth' tear and other iconic items, upgrades felt significant.
These days in wotlk, I don't give a shit about loot anymore. Being a tank there is not much competition anyway but even if there was, it doesn't matter much if the gear gets replaced in a couple months again..
Ultimately, I found a cool raid group to go with since Ulduar, would've quit by now if not for them and I hardly play anymore since a few months into ulduar. Now I play 30 minutes per week doing togc 25 hc. Will see where the raid team is going after wotlk. If they continue into catac, so may I.
Cata was the best design resto shaman ever had. TC lightning bolts for active mana regen was the most rewarding the class ever felt.
@@jessew3047 Yeah couple that with the then-new lightning bolt model, was fucking sick for its time!
I was doing those Cata heroics the second week. Holy shit they were hard.
I was tanking them and had a pocket healer with me that I communicated with. And it was still difficult.
Should be better this time around with my guild. Challenging enough but not a chore (since unlike OG Cata, I'll be pushing for pre-raid BiS to get ready to raid ASAP).
At the time, I was really thinking that classes gameplay for some parts where a bit broken and and that the difficulty of the dungeon was pretty unfair sometimes. But they all said that it was me, that I just don't know how to play and blablabla..
Basicly we will see what happens with cata when cata releases depending on wow team it will either be good or bad =)
As a paladin tank/DPS I remember feeling so powerful in cataclysm. This is the only expansion that I ever led raids on for a total of about 2 1/2 tiers. I remember having a DK that would in all scenarios be reluctant to complement me as an individual because we just didn’t agree on a lot of stuff. Regardless, he called me a math magician because of my ability to single target DPS as a paladin, a low tier spec. I guess they call us meta-Andy’s these days.
I couldn’t really mix-and-match as a tank and DPS unfortunately so my gear was low item level but despite that I was in the top five for DPS in our 25 men raids on Sundays. Our raids would go half plus heroic raid in terms of boss downs for that expansion.
Also, fun fact, blizzard completely broke paladins by Firelands, and it wasn’t even close in terms of how powerful we were versus other tanks on Ragnaros because of our block capped nature. The bosses most powerful attack could not come through without being mitigated by the shield, or dodged or parried. Also, we had a raid wide bubble for his raid wide fire, reducing it by 20%, but it required skill to implement.
Literally, the greatest gameplay experience in an RPG ever!!!
Most of Cata issues can be fixed by light hashtag some changes touches imo
I Cata was the first expansion where I didn't even get to max level, which is even more sad considering the level cap only went up to 85. I actually quit wow until bfa.
Not being able to pug random 10 mans while my guild did 25 in cataclysm was a huge downside for me personally. I liked taking my over-geared main into random raids and pumping, I did it a lot in wrath at the time.
i think mop was peak wow after vanilla
Week 1 Heroic Deadmines. It took my LFD group... wait for it... 8 fucking hours. And it. Was. GLORIOUS.
A Cataclysm re-release success will be predicated on if the dev team can officially implement what works and what doesn't. in WotLK a carbon copy would be mostly acceptable, but in Cata, I think it would find major success if the team did start picking and choosing what to bring back, and what to change for the better. the group finder is a perfect example of this, among many other things.
I'll tell you one thing the community is dead silent on but is one of the major major reasons why WoW plummeted. It was WOTLKs changes to leveling, which only ended up getting worse.
What I mean is they took the vast majority of elites out of the world, fucked quests all up, everything was solo-able and much easier than before. It's why we'll never see a "hardcore WOTLK". And if we do, it will be very unpopular, because there's very little, if any, risk of failure while questing.
The heroics were awesome! Keep them as they are.
But some changes are appreciated.
I absolutely loved the Indiana Jones quests. There were cool
And nice gimmicks.
that was the worst zone in the game, I actively skipped it more than I did Vash'ir
I read an article in April saying that Kotaku had received a document stating that Blizzard was working on an alternate timeline where the objective of the expansion was to prevent the Cataclysm and that the old world would not be shaped by Deathwings rampage. Is this even close to being true?
PvP was a thing for everyone in cata, cant wait !
I started at the tail end of firelands and I think this is the first expac I actually want to go back and see from it’s start.
You should, if you find a good group of people or a fun guild, T11 (first content of cata) was arguably one of the best PvE tiers in WoW ever. Huge quantity AND quality. HC dungeons were actually engaging as well. Bastion of Twilight and Blackwing Descent were sick! And fighting Alakir HC in a 25 man guild was a pretty unique experience too in the last phase.
if cata is announced most likely summer release or late spring?
I hated LFR in cata and on. Yet now I play FF and use the system constantly. I might have been to harsh on it. But the community wasn't ready for it either. No one knew how to wipe and just try again.
I think you are spot on with “too harsh” and “the community wasn’t ready”. That’s honestly the best take