The 5.0L makes amazing power for its size. I just wish Ford didn't have to over-complicate everything they build. There's a certain elegance in simplicity.
the worst thing they did that makes no sense at all is the Runner control system. Stupid plastic flapper valves inside the runners, vacuum controlled plastic diapragm actuators are bound to be trouble. Thats some elementary school engineering.
@Ghost Wrench you're 100 percent right. I've worked on a couple and now days I won't even touch one. Fords are SIMPLE compared to the garbage from Germany.
Yep, my 1999 F250 5.4 sounded exactly like these sounds. Drove it for a quarter of a million miles before selling it to a kid for top dollar. Never a problem. We are overthinking this. Your title is misleading. It says "failure." The motor runs as designed. It's just a noise. Ford says it's just a noise. I have the noise in my 2019 Expedition (exactly as depicted here). So do 3 million other ecoboosts. I expect to get 200,000 miles out of it just like my Super Duty with the same noise. I'm still searching for an actual engine FAILURE due to this noise. That's how I came across this vid. But, this vid isn't an engine failure. I have NOT been able to find a single piece of evidence of this noise destroying the engine yet....
Out of 4 Ford trucks in my lifetime imo the best and least troublesome was a 1977 F100 with 351m and C6. It was my daily driver for 26 years and 250k miles. Only interior engine work was one timing chain and replaced seals in C6 twice. I want another one.
My 77 Ford was a beautiful black on red Thunderbird 400 with C6...9inch rear. Smooth and powerful I long for those simpler machines. Today I drive an 04 F150 with 5.4 3 valve...its ok as my work truck but has a ton of issues built in at the factory.
I have been a faithful flood mode cold starter on my 2013 Ecoboost F150 for the last 4-5 years after experiencing intermittent rattle and it seems to be preventing further wear. Performance is still good and I change oil regardless of mileage every 6 months, well under 5k miles. Cranking length time varies and has to increase when the oil gets further diluted as it ages to keep starting quiet per my experience.
So do you HAVE to hold the brake down or is that a safety thing? And do you just turn the key on while holding the accelerator and brake, or roll it over while holding them down? (2013 f150 ecoboost).
@@scottie1858 At least on the '90s engines, holding the brake down and gas WOT keeps the ignition from starting, while the cranking gets the oil moving.
In the 90s and 2000’s, it was as simple as just holding the throttle open. On the new stuff with push button start, you have to hold the brake just to start the vehicle anyway so if you hold the brake and throttle, it does the crank only.
Too bad they couldn't just flash it so it would crank until it seen oil pressure, then fire off the injectors. Seems like a easy way to prevent these failures. Looking forward to the videos! :)
This was a great video. Oh and Nissan does flood mode same way. I got all the express techs doing it. They didn't even know about it. And now they all do it. They are happy they learned something new. Something so small but yet so helpful in the long run.
@@charliedc2A I came across him cause I used to be a master at Ford. And he popped up in my feed one day. Now I'm at Nissan. It's a great thing to do. Like I said above. I have the Express lube guys doing it.
Great video. Every 2018 F150 5.0 owner I know has this tick problem and the rattle on deceleration problem like mine. My rattle is so loud it’s embarrassing. My ford dealer wanted to replace the engine but Ford service refused it. Now my oil level is below the low line at 5000 mile oil changes. I will be extending my warranty before it hits 60k.
Try a different dealer. You have no idea what was said between your dealer and Ford. Its just as likely the dealer didn't want the job for some reason, and told you Ford refused the claim, when it never really happened. The dealer where I work is set up for heavy line jobs. We look for this type of work. Other dealers want nothing to do with big jobs. A lot also depends on how good the dealers relationship is with Ford. As a customer, you'll never see any of this. But if a dealer has a bad history with Ford, its a lot harder to get big jobs done. I can't tell you how many times I've taken in jobs like this when the customer tells me they were at a different dealership and said Ford didn't approve the repair. I'll have a new motor ordered before they're done with the oil change. If you have other dealerships in your area, don't be afraid to try them. You can also use a Lincoln only dealer. It makes no difference. I hate to see people get screwed over like this. Its not your fault, and if you raise hell, they may even goodwill the job.
@@AT-wl9yq hey. Thanks for the honesty. I extended my warranty so hopefully it dies before 120k miles then they have to replace it. I understand they are out of engines right now. I also understand the newer 5.0s went back to iron sleeved engines.
By the way Rich, I wanted to thank you for all the information about the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. My car runs much quieter now especially with cold starts and my oil stays cleaner longer as well.
Informative and great advice as always. I have a 16 year old 4.6 3 valve Explorer. Use the flood start on cold mornings, 5w30 synthetic as opposed to 5w20 and Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel once a month. Runs smooth and quiet. Cheers
Thanks for the videos. Is there a correlation between Auto Start/Stop and the mileage at which these cam phaser failures occur on the Eco boost engines? Also, is the rattle noise from the pin? Or some other component in the cam phaser. I'm trying to understand the issue better so I can perhaps ask smarter questions regarding this issue. Should this pin be ideally engaged in the hole during engine startup? There are posts suggesting the use of flood mode to build up oil pressure before the engine is given gas. All the engine components are moving during the cranking while using flood mode (don't know the RPM but everything is moving)...so why is no one complaining about a rattle during flood mode cranking? If the cranking RPM is much slower than idle RPM perhaps the pin finds it's home position easier and quicker? All this makes me wonder if the root cause of this issue is more about the engine not being shut down properly so that it is ready for the next startup? And maybe less about low oil pressure on startup? Like I said...if the answers to my questions (even if they are stupid for now) help me to understand this issue better then I assure you that future questions should be smarter. Thanks...Werner
As a phaser engineer I've had to deal with the various ticking noises. There are many things we have learned from Ford about what to do and what not to do. One calibration trick we do in Vision is to always phase just enough at idle to prevent the phaser pin from getting close to locking in the home position. If oil pressure drops just a little at idle there is a risk of the phaser wanting to lock into the home position, especially if the pin hole is wollowed out. There are other ticks, noises, and other control issues from the phasers and OCVs. I have not dealt with timing chain issues. The tensioners had a lot of engineering work done on them to avoid the low oil pressure issues after cranking. Sometimes that rattle will happen on startup, even with good parts. We can only expect the oil to be trapped for so long, as in days. If that startup rattle or rapping noise happens with each start, then that is abnormal. Viewers of your channel would be impressed with all the work we have done with the chain tensioners and the rapping noise issue. The front covers are designed to take some rapping, but that doesn't mean that customers should ignore rapping noises or not change their engine oil often enough. ...I don't want anyone to pay for phaser system repairs that could have been prevented with proper oil changes.
Hello, Could you give us your appreciation on the brake and gas pedal trick we could be using before a cold start in the morning or after a long period of non running engine Tigo
@@tt6518 Hold down brake pedal, hold throttle to floor (do not release or pump) crank engine until you see oil pressure on the gauge. You have now pre-lubed the system and are ready to start. Change your oil every 3000 miles and ignore the oil minder.
@@TheBandit7613 Hello, That is going to be a ritual especially on the first start each morning. We know that the RAM do not have phasers but it has kind of lack of lubrification at ilde , I don't want to have a Cam/lifters failure . I have often changed my oil twice a year and will keep it as a rule now. Thanks for all the good informations you are sharing with us guys , I really appreciate and learning alot here . Good day .
@@tt6518 I can tell you want long trouble-free life from your truck. Smart. I'm guessing your truck is not a daily driver. Things that are not good for your engine: Short trips. They don't allow the oil to get hot enough to vaporize the condensation (water) in the oil. When there is water and fuel in the oil acids form and degrade the oil and corrode the engine surfaces. This also leads to sludge formation. Not good. Short trips here and there are ok as long as it's mixed with longer distance driving too. Longer distance being 5 to 7 miles. When you start the truck, let it warm for a minute and be easy on the engine for the first couple miles to let the engine parts expand. There are different metals in the engine and they expand at different rates. Lets talk about the trans. it's expensive too. Every spring I change the trans oil, it's cheap and easy. I have a vacuum pump. I stick the hose down the dipstick tube and suck it out. I don't get it all but I get most. Takes 10 minutes and I don't even get dirty! I measure what I remove and replace with fresh trans oil. I have transmissions with almost half a million miles that still shift like new. (4x4, I also suck out the transfer case) This also keeps the seals and gaskets in good condition. None of my (10) vehicles leak oil. if you are interested, let me know and I'll leave a link for the vacuum pump I use. It makes changing trans and diff oil changes easy.
@@TheBandit7613 You are right when saying short trips are armful,I see it everyday at the job,we can see especially in winter months within a 2 months period only sometimes, oil is getting water,gas and all the contaminants from cold and short trips uses, level going up to 3/4 " passed the max mark sometimes, both turbo and non turbo engines too . My 2 cars are not driven every day so I am concerned about it . The RAM has the 8 speeds Trans and flushing it is a little bit of work , I have bought this truck 3 years ago with 48.000 kms on , have 60000 on now , Trans oil is in since day one, have just received all parts needed to flush it and your idea of pumping out a measured quantity is a good one , I will be using Valvoline ATF instead of the expensive Mopar one , the plastic pan will be replaced with the removal filter one , thanks to passionate peoples like you we are able to find on the net , a big 👍 to you . Tigo
Hey Rich, Great video!! I have a 2014 3.5L Ecoboost with 156K miles that has presented the P0022 and P0012 codes. My mechanic, who I trust implicitly, has trouble shooted the exterior stuff (cam sensors, VCT, etc.) and can't find anything. Doesn't want me to spend the money to explore what else could be the issue. Stated that Ford has issued a disclaimer about this failure and chain lengthening and or failure from oil sludge buildup. I have used BG MOA and EPR religiously since 2015 so something isn't adding up. It DOESN'T make any rattling noises and has only exhibited a loss of power one time. (The Check Engine light was blinking but went away after resting.) I am by no means a mechanic but just want to make an educated decision with my truck. $1600 just to diagnose and then more to possibly repair vs. Engine Replacement vs. trading in the truck.
Do you recommend doing this major work as a preventive service. If so would you mind giving me a ballpark figure on what it would cost to replace all of the phasers, chain, tensioners, and the works concerning this issue. I’d really appreciate it.
Yup. A lot of very familiar tools you have laying around. I'm curious as to how you manage to get those turbo tubes out of the way with the cab still bolted to the frame, in order to gain access to the front cover.
I have a 2017 f150 3.5 and it has now had the cam phasers replaced twice. The first time they re-used the bad design and after like 25k-30k more miles it started rattling again. This last time they used the new designed phasers. I’ve also had a starter replaced and the IWE joints on both front wheels. Truck has 92k miles on it and my warranty expires in a couple thousand miles. Are there other major issues I should be expecting, or should it be pretty reliable at this point? Thank you!
Would a failed phaser cause metal flakes in oil? Had an identical tap/knock with metal flakes in oil. Pulled engine thinking it was main bearing but non of the bearings have any slop. Also noticed what looks like a crack in both intake and exhaust phasers on bank 1
FBM, does Ford consider the timing chain components on the 3v engine to be a scheduled maintenance item or did they intend it to be a life of the engine component? I had a Honda van with a timing belt that I replaced at 105K miles. Thanks for all your help!
You may have already answered this but how much can one expect to pay if replacing everything you just mentioned out of warranty? Also would you suggest replacing the water pump during these repairs?
I know someone will say snake oil. I can tell you I have 5 3.5 fords and a few 3 valves. The 3 valve do lockouts and a SCT tune for lockouts and be done. The 2.7, 3.5 or 5.0 fords need 1 oz per quart of Lucas stabilizer and 1 oz per quart of hot shots stiction eliminator. I use that combo on everything and each of the forms I have are over 200K and no problems. I had a non turbo with a phaser sticking and I doubled the Lucas and it stopped. The hot shots will keep any engine clean inside like new.
Just use a thicker oil, full Syn. That's literally what you're achieving with Lucas. If you're running full synthetic and keeping your oil change intervals correct, you shouldn't have stiction problems bro.
@@robertmckee1431 Ah, good ole carbon. If we deleted egr valves we wouldn't need the additive. But thanks man, educated me. The guise of "cleaner emissions and cooler running engines" is a total facade. Ridiculous world we live in.
I have a F150 2018 STX, before its 30k milage I had dealer check for same famous clicking and rattling noise. They concluded (according to Ford they say) that it was normal and it shares same issue as mustang and no updates were necessary. Not looking forward to these out of warranty repairs.
Wonderful! My son has a 2012 Mustang with the 3.7 engine with about 90k miles. Are you seeing these cars going bad? One reason is that I might get a 2014 or less Mustang 3.7 convertible. Thanks so much!
Brother my 2011 5.0 F150 has been at a dealer here in Houston for 9 weeks! They’ve changed the cam phasers twice and now there’s a tick in the motor they don’t know what’s causing it. The truck has 138K miles. I’m way past aggravated at these guys. I believe no one over there knows what they’re doing!
Needs a high volume oil pump..... Ford engineers are idiots, trying too hard and should keep it simple like the Japanese..... My Subaru Ascent is a beast in every way, once the F150 takes a dump I'm not buying 'Merican anymore.
After watching your videos on your flood mode start I'm curious about my Powerboost hybrid. It will start off an electric many times and I will be going 20 to 30 mph before the engine kicks on, so I'm guessing I should do the flood mode before I get moving to be beneficial to my ICE.?
Awesome as usual Rich. I just ordered parts to DIY replace these. Waiting on them as some of the parts are backordered. I am at 200,000 kms and I'm definitely at advanced failure. At idle and at slow acceleration the tick/tap is crazy and embarrassing. How causes the tick /tap?
I know this is a old video, but do you know if there's a fix for the 2018 F150 5.0 VCT rattle on deceleration. Only does it when it's cold. I had the TSB done, but it still does it. The truck has about 40k on it now. I have the extended warranty, 8yrs or 100K , I just hope it's now going to be a problem down the road when I'm out of warranty. Great videos by the way, Thumbs up !
@@FordBossMethank you for the reply! I bought one thinking that I could master mechanic my 08 5.4 & 11 5.0 but the dadgum VCM3 gets complicated with no manuals or online vids to resource. I cleared lifetime history of my transmission adaptive learning on the 11’ and it wouldn’t shift past 3rd so used manual shifting to teach it how to shift again hahaha
Just went into my local Ford shop and they are ordering all part to fix up my 2017 F150 with 49,000 miles on it. I’ve only had it for a year but hopefully after this I can assure all the oil changes are done on time and properly.
I just did my 11 3.5 Ecoboost everything and the new intake phaser is taping after about 7k. These Ford timing issues are horrible. My truck has almost 200k on it. I'm going to drive this truck into a lake.
What if my only does this after a decent length drive usually 30-45 mins continuous driving. Then coming off the highway to a stop I’ll get the rattle. I do have a camshaft engine code p0340 but I’ve replaced the sensor twice now and it’ll go away truck will drive fine for a day or two then repeat itself.
Ever hear of a oil pump solenoid issue 17 f150 3.5 2nd gen 68k miles oil pump solenoid went had open circuit so replaced oil pump with melling M490 oil pump lasted 850 miles started acting up again saying low oil pressure when it had normal oil pressure but no check engine just P06DA code stored. Threw research tearing apart oil pump solenoids from other failed pumps. From what myself and two other guys have found is the the oil pump solenoids are actually jamming up there’s a plunger inside that controls high to low pressure. I’m in the process of talking to tubers to delete the solenoid in the pcm way it can be unplugged and stay on the high pressure side 40 to 70 psi and not drop to 20 to 30 psi. FordTechMakuloco it would be awesome to see your opinion on this see what you know about it and if you would be able to help or have any suggestions I’ve came across a good amount of ppl who think they have had this issue and the dealerships just pushed a new motor on them instead of finding the actual reason out. Ford claims if the solenoid fails it will fail to high pressure side but they are wrong it can and will jam on the low pressure side I’ve personally seen it and have pictures to show the wear marks and jam points on the plunger I guess you would call it in the solenoid. Hopefully you get to see this or anyone else who might have these issues or have any advice on how to tune out the low pressure solenoid in the oil pump.
I was dealing with this a couple weeks ago. It knocked and Ford said Ineed an engine, and now the knock at cold start stopped. Now it’s just leaking oil.
I have the new phasers installed. I'm worried the problem will return do to lack of oil on start being the true problem. Have you seen any new parts fail yet?
Hey man I’m 17 and I have 3.5 eb 2014 with 200,000 miles and it was making a rattle only in the morning so I take it up to a shop and they sent me back a pricey bill and said it was timing chain and cam phasers but when we got into the engine the chain looked fine no slack still tight but I mean after 200,000 still needs to be replaced and me and my grandpa replaced timing chain and cam phasers everything now my grandpa is a mechanic and he noticed on the phasers they don’t hold oil to lubricating but anyway new phasers, new tensioners, new guides and new timing chain and we had it on the correct timing and it still rattles so I have no idea it really bothers me and it ain’t waste gate rattle. You can hear it coming from the top of the engine. I have notice when I come home at 12 at night and start my truck at 7 no rattle or not as bad so it could be a oil problem but I run high mileage synthetic blend and put Lucas in it and it did stop rattling for a couple of days and then went right back to rattling and I’ve seen your other videos and when you talk about pre oiling the engine I have done that and still a rattle so I have no idea and going back in that engine does not sound fun at all any help please or advice. I might end up just taking it too a shop and be like I replaced everything yall told me and still rattles so what’s going on but could you still give advice?
I was chasing tails on these phaser codes for a couple months with my 05 mustang GT, and finally took it to my mechanic. The knocking noise definitely got worse over time and I’m hoping I didn’t do any internal damage or damage to the vvt Does anyone know of any further damage done to the motor from letting this phaser issue go untreated?
Is it a good idea to prime the system on the old 3v motors? I'm going to try that next time i drive her. I've got an aftermarket gauge to see the actual pressure.
Hi just started getting the rattling at start up, would I need to prime every morning at start up or just once. Is this a fix or bandaid Can I still use truck or will this rattle mess up my engine? I appreciate all the information
I wonder if there is a company that makes Lockouts/VVT Deletes for 3.5 EB? I understand the value to the average consumer but for others a Delete/Lockout may be more optimal.
I'm pretty sure there is an aftermarket company that does somebody shared a link with me not too long ago and I don't remember who they were but they did have lockout kits
@@FordBossMe very cool, the only ones I’ve been able to find are for the 1st Gen Coyote and the 4cyl EB’s. I’m going to get digging into my EB this summer for Phaser Failure but overall not too concerned. Hopefully I can find the link for the lockouts.
Any Phaser lockout kits available for these yet? I had a 3v 5.4l I did it to back in the day and with a tune it did not effect performance or MPG one bit.
My 08 150 eco 5.4-3 only goes into phaser failure on my way up this steeep canyon. Never on start up never on flat roads. Only up the canyon and once at the top of the canyon when the rpm’s lower it begins and BOOM! I’ve got an F150 diesel.
Where did you get those phasers? I have already done the entire timing replacement once and feel like i am about to have to do it again in the near future. Having the same symptoms as before and only at 135000 miles. Thanks
Poor start up Oil pressure. Hold the throttle down fully crank engine over till you see you have oil pressure about 30 seconds or so. Take your foot off throttle engine will start as normal but the oil will have already started throughout the system. It's not a cure but it will help. If you havent heard this noise yet this may prolong it.
Hey what do you think about the triton 5.4 3v can they be reliable motors? I’m looking at a 2006 f150 crew cab fx4 175k miles Looks to be maintained well, but I’m skeptical on how much life it has left. Any input would be appreciated.
Proper maintenance on the 5.4, 3 valve is a must otherwise it's a problem engine. If they've been neglected or even didn't have the oil changed at proper regular intervals expect trouble with it because those specific 5.4, 3 valve engines had design flaws. Once one starts to fail the only viable option was a new engine cause of the damage that occurs. Once they start to go, it basically tears up everything in the heads. If it's good at that milage then you might be ok, and already been worked on. I could lable all the bad things these engines had but that would be too long a post. Just check that engine out real well and ask the owner dozens of history questions about anything that may have been done too it.
i have a question ive been having an issue with a 2017 ford explore 3.5 we did timing chains and a water pump along with cam sensors and solenoids i keep getting a p0017 the timing is correct. there isnt a rattle we reused the phasers the car runs great except the c.e.l and the vvt doesnt work. how do i diagnose these phasers aside from pulling the valve covers and the intake back off and spinninmg it by hand
I just purchased an Ecoboost with 200k on it. Makes the rattle for about a second on cold start up, then runs smooth. Should I switch to a thicker oil to help the timing chain rattle? I don't think it's worth having the timing chain and cam phasers replaced on an engine with 200k, I'd rather get what I can out of it and then swap a used lower mile/reman engine in when the stock one goes bad
@@FordBossMe so to get max life out of this engine should I just use your crank for five or six seconds and then start method? The engine still pulls very strong and does not have any idle issues
ASE Master Tech here and I work at an independent shop. We charge about $3600 to $4000 for these jobs depending on what model it's on. Done so many its a cake walk at this point, and I don't even work for Ford.😄
It's about 12 - 14hrs labor depending on the dealer and the cost of parts which is about 450 - 600 depending on what you need Plus tax so about 3k max ish
@@FordBossMe at about what milage should I probably get the timing system changed just as preventative maintenance on a 2015 Ford f150 2.7 current mileage is 112437
My 2017 5.0 has phaser slap, but only after engine braking down a hill, and then accelerating up the next hill. Is that typically a phaser issue itself or a VCT solenoid issue?
Do you have a video or a step by step on how to reinstall all FOUR camshafts for a 3.5 TT when you do not document there original positions before removing?
Well this also throw a p0300 code? I have a Nissan frontier I'm fighting with it's running rough and when revving to 3k ses flashes and sets the code. But if you don't rev it up check engine light stays off I did a vacuum test and it shows late ignition timing you give it throttle vacuum goes almost to zero so I thought could be a clogged exhaust but when holding it at 2000 or 3000 vacuum stays at late ignition timing. But also the O2 on bank 2 sensor 2 shows no graph nothing moving could it just be the O2
@@FordBossMe I also did a power balance test and all six cylinders dropped out like they're supposed to I just pulled the valve cover on bank two and I can't turn the cam so the phaser is not broke at least
My Lincoln has been making that noise since yesterday morning on cold starts, like an diesel running until I’m at operating temps with an light oil burn smell. Thought it might be bad gas. How are you settling into your new home?
Awesome video! Thanks for this! I just started rattling last week. Flood mode works for quieting down the startup rattle, but I have developed a slight tap on idle after warmup. How problematic do you think it is to drive using flood mode start until ford can repair it,?
Ford Boss Me, I think I heard you say in one of your videos that ford has updated part or part numbers for F-150 5.0 Cam Phasers. Would you happen to know or have it written down somewhere what the updated pet numbers are ? It may be I heard this from another ford channel. Pardon if I’m mistaken. Love your channel. Wish I lived closer so I could have you work in my 2018 F-150 5.0. She’s been a pain but I’m not ready to give up on her yet.
I know this is an older video my truck has advanced failure. My question being will it cause catastrophic failure in the long run or will it just rattle?
According to Ford Motor Company no long-term damage can be done but I don't believe that because you can hear the engine logging down sometimes as if it's stumbling trying to get into its power band because things aren't adjusting correctly
Question, I had a 2018 3.5 ecoboost come in woth an intermittent low oil pressure light flicker. While it was in I could not duplicate it. Cold start to idle for 1.5 hours in 90* weather today in Central AZ. Never did it for me. Any thing common on these besides just the sensor.
So the 21N03 only covers the Cam Phasers essentially? Some other things obviously but if it is in warranty the other parts can be replaced? Like guides, chains, and tensioners etc.
IF you have an oldie, "Flood Mode" for the win. First startup of a cold engine, gets that oil pressure up. Best way to keep an old 4L SOHC going. BUT first time you try it, do it on a warm engine, in case your throttle cable is stretched out and you're not WOT. If it is, just put a zip tie around the very end of the throttle cable and cut it off short.
Did you crank it without timing chain cover on. I only ask because I didn’t know you could. I’m about to install the parts. It would be nice if I could start it before I put it back together then find out so things wrong.
Hello we have a ford 3.5 eco boost with cold start rattle. We changed the old phasers for the new updated ones, now there is not any noise but we get the P0017 failure. What can we do?
How much did a job like this cost? Asking for myself as mine 18 lariat just started this ticking..... only thing I've done differnt was use a Fram oil filter this last oil change and that's when it happened
There's a lot of stuff that goes into this did you use a good quality frame one or did you use a very poor one did you use the correct one there's a lot of questions we have to ask here and I don't want this pinned on the oil filter just because it's the oil filter
So finally had time to take it to a trusted shop and it turns out it was a rocker arm. Thank you for taking the time to reply with some help bro, much appreciated!
What percentage of performance and fuel mileage is gained using an overhead cam design vs. a pushrod engine? Help this 62-year-old fan of the 4.6 2V understand.
think of it like this. Pushrods are weight, weight means drag. if your whole valve train weighs say 3kg (just a number) and your whole valve train WITH pushrods weighs 4kg. you're already 25% more efficient. any drag taken out of the engine goes to the wheels. the hydraulic lifters create alot more drag than rollers as well, hence the commonality of all the roller cams now. more power, more efficient. better on emisions
whats ur thought on the 2015 3.5? i have 85k miles i have not heard any weird noises i dont baby it have had it since it had 19k miles . watching all your videos makes me wish i got the 5.0 as much as i love this truck
You could be dealing with a whole bunch of things man not just ignition it could be fuel it could be a torque converter problem I mean you can't just throw Parts at something and expect to find it
What's the new vct phasers part # I got mine but they don't look the same I waited a month to receive them that's horrible if I didn't get the updated ones. I order Hl3z-6256-cd and HL3Z-6C525-CD And I got hl3e-6c525-cd and hl3e-6c524-cd that's the numbers on the phasers what do you think
Lots of usful info thanks for sharing!I want you to work on my 2019 Expedition that has cam phasers and turbos rattling at start up. We are at 53000 miles. Can we request you at the dealership?
What happens in the long run if you ignore the rattling. I have a 18 3.5 and the startup rattle is intermittent and I have other vehicles that I drive daily and only drive the truck a few times a month. I bought it a year ago with 78k on it and I wasn't aware of the phaser problem. I've only put 1200 miles on it since I've owned it
Why not just torque the VCT solenoid bolts with a wrench holding the cam flats? Those newer timing setups look much simpler compared to the older ones that had secondary chains.
You get better leverage with the box wrench in one hand and the torque/wrench in the other. I snug up the vvt sprocket bolts, pull the timing chain pins, pull the cam lock tools then tighten the sprockets with the open ended wrench on the cam and the torque wrench on the bolt.
We have the cam holder tools, but I'll still get a helper to hold the cam with my flank drive adjustable wrench on the hex portion of the cams in conjuction with the special tool also holding the cams while I perform the final torque stage.
2016 f150 with 5.0 with 95k, had p0011/p0012 and keeps shutting itself off when at idle. Intermittent, won't happen when cold. Only when motor is heated up. Dealer did VCTs and seemed better but now it's back to where it was, shutting off. Dealer reluctant to do phasers on 5.0.
They want to do spark plugs and stuff more around a tune up. I feel like they want to keep soaking me for $500 visits versus fixing the issue. Codes don't always come up but they're always the same ones when they do. No misfire codes or stuff like that 🤷🏻♂️
I’m not mechanically inclined so forgive me if this a stupid question but doing the flood mode for every cold start doesn’t cause any other problems while priming your engine? Thanks
The 5.0L makes amazing power for its size. I just wish Ford didn't have to over-complicate everything they build. There's a certain elegance in simplicity.
Ford over complicates everything thing they build? Don’t ever go looking at Audi engines then.
Don't worry, I wont.
the worst thing they did that makes no sense at all is the Runner control system. Stupid plastic flapper valves inside the runners, vacuum controlled plastic diapragm actuators are bound to be trouble. Thats some elementary school engineering.
@Ghost Wrench you're 100 percent right. I've worked on a couple and now days I won't even touch one. Fords are SIMPLE compared to the garbage from Germany.
Yep, my 1999 F250 5.4 sounded exactly like these sounds. Drove it for a quarter of a million miles before selling it to a kid for top dollar. Never a problem. We are overthinking this. Your title is misleading. It says "failure." The motor runs as designed. It's just a noise. Ford says it's just a noise. I have the noise in my 2019 Expedition (exactly as depicted here). So do 3 million other ecoboosts. I expect to get 200,000 miles out of it just like my Super Duty with the same noise. I'm still searching for an actual engine FAILURE due to this noise. That's how I came across this vid. But, this vid isn't an engine failure. I have NOT been able to find a single piece of evidence of this noise destroying the engine yet....
Out of 4 Ford trucks in my lifetime imo the best and least troublesome was a 1977 F100 with 351m and C6. It was my daily driver for 26 years and 250k miles. Only interior engine work was one timing chain and replaced seals in C6 twice. I want another one.
My 77 Ford was a beautiful black on red Thunderbird 400 with C6...9inch rear. Smooth and powerful I long for those simpler machines. Today I drive an 04 F150 with 5.4 3 valve...its ok as my work truck but has a ton of issues built in at the factory.
I have been a faithful flood mode cold starter on my 2013 Ecoboost F150 for the last 4-5 years after experiencing intermittent rattle and it seems to be preventing further wear. Performance is still good and I change oil regardless of mileage every 6 months, well under 5k miles. Cranking length time varies and has to increase when the oil gets further diluted as it ages to keep starting quiet per my experience.
So do you HAVE to hold the brake down or is that a safety thing? And do you just turn the key on while holding the accelerator and brake, or roll it over while holding them down? (2013 f150 ecoboost).
@@scottie1858 At least on the '90s engines, holding the brake down and gas WOT keeps the ignition from starting, while the cranking gets the oil moving.
In the 90s and 2000’s, it was as simple as just holding the throttle open. On the new stuff with push button start, you have to hold the brake just to start the vehicle anyway so if you hold the brake and throttle, it does the crank only.
Too bad they couldn't just flash it so it would crank until it seen oil pressure, then fire off the injectors. Seems like a easy way to prevent these failures. Looking forward to the videos! :)
Then people would complain about extended crank times lol if the sensor went out, you would be stranded.
A on/off switch for that would be nice
@@u.p.tinkering Yeah they screwed up the motor and are now replacing it with a new 5.0 at my extended warranty providers expense.
This was a great video. Oh and Nissan does flood mode same way. I got all the express techs doing it. They didn't even know about it. And now they all do it. They are happy they learned something new. Something so small but yet so helpful in the long run.
I do it on my 2015 Nissan frontier pro 4x Because of Rich. I watch all his videos and I don't even own a Ford anymore. Good stuff 👍
@@charliedc2A I came across him cause I used to be a master at Ford. And he popped up in my feed one day. Now I'm at Nissan. It's a great thing to do. Like I said above. I have the Express lube guys doing it.
On the Nissans, brake plus full throttle at startup to engage flood mode?
@@bobbbobb4663 yes. Same as a ford
@@BeardedFordTech Thanks!
Great video. Every 2018 F150 5.0 owner I know has this tick problem and the rattle on deceleration problem like mine. My rattle is so loud it’s embarrassing. My ford dealer wanted to replace the engine but Ford service refused it. Now my oil level is below the low line at 5000 mile oil changes. I will be extending my warranty before it hits 60k.
Try a different dealer. You have no idea what was said between your dealer and Ford. Its just as likely the dealer didn't want the job for some reason, and told you Ford refused the claim, when it never really happened. The dealer where I work is set up for heavy line jobs. We look for this type of work. Other dealers want nothing to do with big jobs. A lot also depends on how good the dealers relationship is with Ford. As a customer, you'll never see any of this. But if a dealer has a bad history with Ford, its a lot harder to get big jobs done.
I can't tell you how many times I've taken in jobs like this when the customer tells me they were at a different dealership and said Ford didn't approve the repair. I'll have a new motor ordered before they're done with the oil change. If you have other dealerships in your area, don't be afraid to try them. You can also use a Lincoln only dealer. It makes no difference. I hate to see people get screwed over like this. Its not your fault, and if you raise hell, they may even goodwill the job.
@@AT-wl9yq hey. Thanks for the honesty. I extended my warranty so hopefully it dies before 120k miles then they have to replace it. I understand they are out of engines right now. I also understand the newer 5.0s went back to iron sleeved engines.
By the way Rich, I wanted to thank you for all the information about the Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter. My car runs much quieter now especially with cold starts and my oil stays cleaner longer as well.
Very Good I'm glad to hear that
Does it have valve to hold oil in heads like Motorcraft does
@@lyleswavel320great question
Informative and great advice as always. I have a 16 year old 4.6 3 valve Explorer. Use the flood start on cold mornings, 5w30 synthetic as opposed to 5w20 and Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel once a month. Runs smooth and quiet. Cheers
Hello,
Have you been doing this from the day you own this vehicle , how many miles on , any work or parts replaced on the engine .
Tigo
Ditto for my 98 Explorer, on the flood start. Going to check out putting MMO in the fuel, as in how much?
@@dennyj8650your 98 explorer doesn’t have phasers and will not do flood start.
No phasers for sure. But it does the flood start. @@hadtocheathimtobeathim6549
Thanks for the videos.
Is there a correlation between Auto Start/Stop and the mileage at which these cam phaser failures occur on the Eco boost engines?
Also, is the rattle noise from the pin? Or some other component in the cam phaser. I'm trying to understand the issue better so I can perhaps ask smarter questions regarding this issue. Should this pin be ideally engaged in the hole during engine startup?
There are posts suggesting the use of flood mode to build up oil pressure before the engine is given gas. All the engine components are moving during the cranking while using flood mode (don't know the RPM but everything is moving)...so why is no one complaining about a rattle during flood mode cranking? If the cranking RPM is much slower than idle RPM perhaps the pin finds it's home position easier and quicker? All this makes me wonder if the root cause of this issue is more about the engine not being shut down properly so that it is ready for the next startup? And maybe less about low oil pressure on startup?
Like I said...if the answers to my questions (even if they are stupid for now) help me to understand this issue better then I assure you that future questions should be smarter. Thanks...Werner
On the cam phaser situation I told my uncle the navigator to watch this video thanks for the video man
As a phaser engineer I've had to deal with the various ticking noises. There are many things we have learned from Ford about what to do and what not to do. One calibration trick we do in Vision is to always phase just enough at idle to prevent the phaser pin from getting close to locking in the home position. If oil pressure drops just a little at idle there is a risk of the phaser wanting to lock into the home position, especially if the pin hole is wollowed out.
There are other ticks, noises, and other control issues from the phasers and OCVs. I have not dealt with timing chain issues. The tensioners had a lot of engineering work done on them to avoid the low oil pressure issues after cranking. Sometimes that rattle will happen on startup, even with good parts. We can only expect the oil to be trapped for so long, as in days. If that startup rattle or rapping noise happens with each start, then that is abnormal. Viewers of your channel would be impressed with all the work we have done with the chain tensioners and the rapping noise issue. The front covers are designed to take some rapping, but that doesn't mean that customers should ignore rapping noises or not change their engine oil often enough. ...I don't want anyone to pay for phaser system repairs that could have been prevented with proper oil changes.
Hello,
Could you give us your appreciation on the brake and gas pedal trick we could be using before a cold start in the morning or after a long period of non running engine
Tigo
@@tt6518 Hold down brake pedal, hold throttle to floor (do not release or pump) crank engine until you see oil pressure on the gauge. You have now pre-lubed the system and are ready to start. Change your oil every 3000 miles and ignore the oil minder.
@@TheBandit7613 Hello,
That is going to be a ritual especially on the first start each morning.
We know that the RAM do not have phasers but it has kind of lack of lubrification at ilde , I don't want to have a Cam/lifters failure .
I have often changed my oil twice a year and will keep it as a rule now.
Thanks for all the good informations you are sharing with us guys , I really appreciate and learning alot here .
Good day .
@@tt6518 I can tell you want long trouble-free life from your truck. Smart.
I'm guessing your truck is not a daily driver.
Things that are not good for your engine: Short trips. They don't allow the oil to get hot enough to vaporize the condensation (water) in the oil. When there is water and fuel in the oil acids form and degrade the oil and corrode the engine surfaces. This also leads to sludge formation. Not good. Short trips here and there are ok as long as it's mixed with longer distance driving too. Longer distance being 5 to 7 miles.
When you start the truck, let it warm for a minute and be easy on the engine for the first couple miles to let the engine parts expand. There are different metals in the engine and they expand at different rates.
Lets talk about the trans. it's expensive too. Every spring I change the trans oil, it's cheap and easy. I have a vacuum pump. I stick the hose down the dipstick tube and suck it out. I don't get it all but I get most. Takes 10 minutes and I don't even get dirty! I measure what I remove and replace with fresh trans oil. I have transmissions with almost half a million miles that still shift like new. (4x4, I also suck out the transfer case)
This also keeps the seals and gaskets in good condition. None of my (10) vehicles leak oil.
if you are interested, let me know and I'll leave a link for the vacuum pump I use. It makes changing trans and diff oil changes easy.
@@TheBandit7613 You are right when saying short trips are armful,I see it everyday at the job,we can see especially in winter months within a 2 months period only sometimes, oil is getting water,gas and all the contaminants from cold and short trips uses, level going up to 3/4 " passed the max mark sometimes, both turbo and non turbo engines too .
My 2 cars are not driven every day so I am concerned about it .
The RAM has the 8 speeds Trans and flushing it is a little bit of work , I have bought this truck 3 years ago with 48.000 kms on , have 60000 on now , Trans oil is in since day one, have just received all parts needed to flush it and your idea of pumping out a measured quantity is a good one , I will be using Valvoline ATF instead of the expensive Mopar one , the plastic pan will be replaced with the removal filter one , thanks to passionate peoples like you we are able to find on the net , a big 👍 to you .
Tigo
Hey Rich, Great video!! I have a 2014 3.5L Ecoboost with 156K miles that has presented the P0022 and P0012 codes. My mechanic, who I trust implicitly, has trouble shooted the exterior stuff (cam sensors, VCT, etc.) and can't find anything. Doesn't want me to spend the money to explore what else could be the issue. Stated that Ford has issued a disclaimer about this failure and chain lengthening and or failure from oil sludge buildup. I have used BG MOA and EPR religiously since 2015 so something isn't adding up. It DOESN'T make any rattling noises and has only exhibited a loss of power one time. (The Check Engine light was blinking but went away after resting.) I am by no means a mechanic but just want to make an educated decision with my truck. $1600 just to diagnose and then more to possibly repair vs. Engine Replacement vs. trading in the truck.
$1,600 seems quite a bit to just diagnose to be honest with you
It's about 2,500 to $3,000 to do a new timing phaser and chain set
Ur bad ass . I think out of 100 videos I’ve watched this helped the most . Thank you !
Do you recommend doing this major work as a preventive service. If so would you mind giving me a ballpark figure on what it would cost to replace all of the phasers, chain, tensioners, and the works concerning this issue. I’d really appreciate it.
It's about $2,500 to 3 Grand depending on where you go and yes you do it about a hundred fifty thousand miles
Yup. A lot of very familiar tools you have laying around. I'm curious as to how you manage to get those turbo tubes out of the way with the cab still bolted to the frame, in order to gain access to the front cover.
It's not really that hard and it doesn't take any extra time to do it with it on
@Ford Boss Me Can the vct be controlled with forscan to check as well?
I have a 2017 f150 3.5 and it has now had the cam phasers replaced twice. The first time they re-used the bad design and after like 25k-30k more miles it started rattling again. This last time they used the new designed phasers.
I’ve also had a starter replaced and the IWE joints on both front wheels.
Truck has 92k miles on it and my warranty expires in a couple thousand miles. Are there other major issues I should be expecting, or should it be pretty reliable at this point?
Thank you!
Is it a a good truck after new model phasers?
Would a failed phaser cause metal flakes in oil? Had an identical tap/knock with metal flakes in oil. Pulled engine thinking it was main bearing but non of the bearings have any slop. Also noticed what looks like a crack in both intake and exhaust phasers on bank 1
FBM, does Ford consider the timing chain components on the 3v engine to be a scheduled maintenance item or did they intend it to be a life of the engine component? I had a Honda van with a timing belt that I replaced at 105K miles. Thanks for all your help!
Life
You may have already answered this but how much can one expect to pay if replacing everything you just mentioned out of warranty? Also would you suggest replacing the water pump during these repairs?
Oh yes replace as much as possible, about 3k - 3500
@@FordBossMe Thanks for your reply. I really enjoy all the knowledge you share with the viewers. It is much appreciated.
Thank you Ford Boss for sharing this info. I will try that pre-priming to my 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost.
I know someone will say snake oil. I can tell you I have 5 3.5 fords and a few 3 valves. The 3 valve do lockouts and a SCT tune for lockouts and be done. The 2.7, 3.5 or 5.0 fords need 1 oz per quart of Lucas stabilizer and 1 oz per quart of hot shots stiction eliminator. I use that combo on everything and each of the forms I have are over 200K and no problems. I had a non turbo with a phaser sticking and I doubled the Lucas and it stopped. The hot shots will keep any engine clean inside like new.
Just use a thicker oil, full Syn. That's literally what you're achieving with Lucas. If you're running full synthetic and keeping your oil change intervals correct, you shouldn't have stiction problems bro.
@@Rico702Vegas Every engine has stiction it is just called carbon or gum. Synthetic oil doesn’t stop that. Hot Shots does .
@@robertmckee1431 Ah, good ole carbon. If we deleted egr valves we wouldn't need the additive. But thanks man, educated me. The guise of "cleaner emissions and cooler running engines" is a total facade. Ridiculous world we live in.
Should vvt and and direct gasoline injection be removed from future engine designs because they breakdown too frequently?
Sounds pretty much like the cam phasers of the 5.4L 3 valve on that first clip.
I have a F150 2018 STX, before its 30k milage I had dealer check for same famous clicking and rattling noise. They concluded (according to Ford they say) that it was normal and it shares same issue as mustang and no updates were necessary. Not looking forward to these out of warranty repairs.
Wonderful! My son has a 2012 Mustang with the 3.7 engine with about 90k miles. Are you seeing these cars going bad? One reason is that I might get a 2014 or less Mustang 3.7 convertible. Thanks so much!
We dont see those fail until 150,000 and then sometimes they go longer
Just did lash adjusters on that new 3.0l duramax terd. They cant get valve train parts right over in GM land either...
Another thing for us independent shop diesel techs for us to explore on these new trucks…
Brother my 2011 5.0 F150 has been at a dealer here in Houston for 9 weeks! They’ve changed the cam phasers twice and now there’s a tick in the motor they don’t know what’s causing it. The truck has 138K miles. I’m way past aggravated at these guys. I believe no one over there knows what they’re doing!
Needs a high volume oil pump..... Ford engineers are idiots, trying too hard and should keep it simple like the Japanese..... My Subaru Ascent is a beast in every way, once the F150 takes a dump I'm not buying 'Merican anymore.
After watching your videos on your flood mode start I'm curious about my Powerboost hybrid. It will start off an electric many times and I will be going 20 to 30 mph before the engine kicks on, so I'm guessing I should do the flood mode before I get moving to be beneficial to my ICE.?
Yeah the hybrids won't do that
Awesome as usual Rich. I just ordered parts to DIY replace these. Waiting on them as some of the parts are backordered. I am at 200,000 kms and I'm definitely at advanced failure. At idle and at slow acceleration the tick/tap is crazy and embarrassing. How causes the tick /tap?
It's the vct bouncing in the housing and the spring clicking off its seat and back on
I know this is a old video, but do you know if there's a fix for the 2018 F150 5.0 VCT rattle on deceleration. Only does it when it's cold. I had the TSB done, but it still does it. The truck has about 40k on it now.
I have the extended warranty, 8yrs or 100K , I just hope it's now going to be a problem down the road when I'm out of warranty. Great videos by the way, Thumbs up !
Can you replace 2018 and newer 5.0 cam phasers without removing front cover and chain?
Thanks for the awesome video. Where can I learn how to use my Rotunda VCM3?
I'm not sure buddy we don't have any dedicated videos for training on that amongst the guys that I know of
@@FordBossMethank you for the reply! I bought one thinking that I could master mechanic my 08 5.4 & 11 5.0 but the dadgum VCM3 gets complicated with no manuals or online vids to resource.
I cleared lifetime history of my transmission adaptive learning on the 11’ and it wouldn’t shift past 3rd so used manual shifting to teach it how to shift again hahaha
Just went into my local Ford shop and they are ordering all part to fix up my 2017 F150 with 49,000 miles on it. I’ve only had it for a year but hopefully after this I can assure all the oil changes are done on time and properly.
How did it go?
A ford dealership wants to bill me 5k for the work. Including changing the time if belt and tensioners. Is that too much?
Seems alot but I'm not thay dealer -
I just did my 11 3.5 Ecoboost everything and the new intake phaser is taping after about 7k. These Ford timing issues are horrible. My truck has almost 200k on it. I'm going to drive this truck into a lake.
Rattling or tapping? I hope the pistons are not broken
@Bubblebunz lol I have 245k on the truck after my timing job so we are good.
@Bubblebunz it was also the water pump bearing that was going out that was rattling
What if my only does this after a decent length drive usually 30-45 mins continuous driving. Then coming off the highway to a stop I’ll get the rattle. I do have a camshaft engine code p0340 but I’ve replaced the sensor twice now and it’ll go away truck will drive fine for a day or two then repeat itself.
Ever hear of a oil pump solenoid issue 17 f150 3.5 2nd gen 68k miles oil pump solenoid went had open circuit so replaced oil pump with melling M490 oil pump lasted 850 miles started acting up again saying low oil pressure when it had normal oil pressure but no check engine just P06DA code stored. Threw research tearing apart oil pump solenoids from other failed pumps. From what myself and two other guys have found is the the oil pump solenoids are actually jamming up there’s a plunger inside that controls high to low pressure. I’m in the process of talking to tubers to delete the solenoid in the pcm way it can be unplugged and stay on the high pressure side 40 to 70 psi and not drop to 20 to 30 psi. FordTechMakuloco it would be awesome to see your opinion on this see what you know about it and if you would be able to help or have any suggestions I’ve came across a good amount of ppl who think they have had this issue and the dealerships just pushed a new motor on them instead of finding the actual reason out. Ford claims if the solenoid fails it will fail to high pressure side but they are wrong it can and will jam on the low pressure side I’ve personally seen it and have pictures to show the wear marks and jam points on the plunger I guess you would call it in the solenoid. Hopefully you get to see this or anyone else who might have these issues or have any advice on how to tune out the low pressure solenoid in the oil pump.
That's a tricky one indeed
I was dealing with this a couple weeks ago. It knocked and Ford said Ineed an engine, and now the knock at cold start stopped. Now it’s just leaking oil.
I have the new phasers installed. I'm worried the problem will return do to lack of oil on start being the true problem. Have you seen any new parts fail yet?
Good stuff as always Rich. What year model was the truck you was working on? Is this still in an issue with 21 and forward year model 3.5s?
2020 was the last year for this issue and this was a 2018 if you look in the library will find the live video stream in that section
Hey man I’m 17 and I have 3.5 eb 2014 with 200,000 miles and it was making a rattle only in the morning so I take it up to a shop and they sent me back a pricey bill and said it was timing chain and cam phasers but when we got into the engine the chain looked fine no slack still tight but I mean after 200,000 still needs to be replaced and me and my grandpa replaced timing chain and cam phasers everything now my grandpa is a mechanic and he noticed on the phasers they don’t hold oil to lubricating but anyway new phasers, new tensioners, new guides and new timing chain and we had it on the correct timing and it still rattles so I have no idea it really bothers me and it ain’t waste gate rattle. You can hear it coming from the top of the engine. I have notice when I come home at 12 at night and start my truck at 7 no rattle or not as bad so it could be a oil problem but I run high mileage synthetic blend and put Lucas in it and it did stop rattling for a couple of days and then went right back to rattling and I’ve seen your other videos and when you talk about pre oiling the engine I have done that and still a rattle so I have no idea and going back in that engine does not sound fun at all any help please or advice. I might end up just taking it too a shop and be like I replaced everything yall told me and still rattles so what’s going on but could you still give advice?
I was chasing tails on these phaser codes for a couple months with my 05 mustang GT, and finally took it to my mechanic. The knocking noise definitely got worse over time and I’m hoping I didn’t do any internal damage or damage to the vvt
Does anyone know of any further damage done to the motor from letting this phaser issue go untreated?
Is it a good idea to prime the system on the old 3v motors? I'm going to try that next time i drive her. I've got an aftermarket gauge to see the actual pressure.
Hi just started getting the rattling at start up, would I need to prime every morning at start up or just once. Is this a fix or bandaid
Can I still use truck or will this rattle mess up my engine? I appreciate all the information
Flood mode start is bandaid only… only buying time
Do you remember how much this repair cost? Not sure if to repair or replace engine.
Hi...does using flood mode on a 2018 f150 Lariat to build up oil pressure cause any harm to the engine or transmission?
I wonder if there is a company that makes Lockouts/VVT Deletes for 3.5 EB? I understand the value to the average consumer but for others a Delete/Lockout may be more optimal.
I'm pretty sure there is an aftermarket company that does somebody shared a link with me not too long ago and I don't remember who they were but they did have lockout kits
@@FordBossMe very cool, the only ones I’ve been able to find are for the 1st Gen Coyote and the 4cyl EB’s. I’m going to get digging into my EB this summer for Phaser Failure but overall not too concerned. Hopefully I can find the link for the lockouts.
Any Phaser lockout kits available for these yet? I had a 3v 5.4l I did it to back in the day and with a tune it did not effect performance or MPG one bit.
Yeah there's already lock out kits available I think
@@FordBossMe I figured, when these trucks are creeping out of warranty it will probably be a feasible option. Thank you
I got a 2018 lincoln navigator. I guess ford decided oil pressure guage wasnt important.
What was the cost to replace all of that? I’m having this issue now
Ford sure hard great timing on this one 🥁
My 08 150 eco 5.4-3 only goes into phaser failure on my way up this steeep canyon. Never on start up never on flat roads. Only up the canyon and once at the top of the canyon when the rpm’s lower it begins and BOOM! I’ve got an F150 diesel.
Where did you get those phasers? I have already done the entire timing replacement once and feel like i am about to have to do it again in the near future. Having the same symptoms as before and only at 135000 miles. Thanks
Mine rattled doing the flood stuff too, but I was able to get in and get mine replaced under warranty thankfully.
Poor start up Oil pressure. Hold the throttle down fully crank engine over till you see you have oil pressure about 30 seconds or so. Take your foot off throttle engine will start as normal but the oil will have already started throughout the system. It's not a cure but it will help. If you havent heard this noise yet this may prolong it.
Hey what do you think about the triton 5.4 3v can they be reliable motors? I’m looking at a 2006 f150 crew cab fx4 175k miles Looks to be maintained well, but I’m skeptical on how much life it has left. Any input would be appreciated.
Proper maintenance on the 5.4, 3 valve is a must otherwise it's a problem engine. If they've been neglected or even didn't have the oil changed at proper regular intervals expect trouble with it because those specific 5.4, 3 valve engines had design flaws. Once one starts to fail the only viable option was a new engine cause of the damage that occurs. Once they start to go, it basically tears up everything in the heads. If it's good at that milage then you might be ok, and already been worked on. I could lable all the bad things these engines had but that would be too long a post. Just check that engine out real well and ask the owner dozens of history questions about anything that may have been done too it.
My late 08’ has 326k, runs fine, second timing job at 285k
i have a question ive been having an issue with a 2017 ford explore 3.5 we did timing chains and a water pump along with cam sensors and solenoids i keep getting a p0017 the timing is correct. there isnt a rattle we reused the phasers the car runs great except the c.e.l and the vvt doesnt work. how do i diagnose these phasers aside from pulling the valve covers and the intake back off and spinninmg it by hand
just a like? have you seen bad phasers that dont make noise in my experience they make noise
I had a 1999 Ford explorer with a 4.0 sohc V6 and the chains rattling made it sound like a diesel motor.
I just purchased an Ecoboost with 200k on it. Makes the rattle for about a second on cold start up, then runs smooth. Should I switch to a thicker oil to help the timing chain rattle? I don't think it's worth having the timing chain and cam phasers replaced on an engine with 200k, I'd rather get what I can out of it and then swap a used lower mile/reman engine in when the stock one goes bad
It won't help normally but you can try
@@FordBossMe so to get max life out of this engine should I just use your crank for five or six seconds and then start method? The engine still pulls very strong and does not have any idle issues
What's the general cost to replace phasers and timing chain at a Ford dealership
ASE Master Tech here and I work at an independent shop. We charge about $3600 to $4000 for these jobs depending on what model it's on. Done so many its a cake walk at this point, and I don't even work for Ford.😄
It's about 12 - 14hrs labor depending on the dealer and the cost of parts which is about 450 - 600 depending on what you need
Plus tax so about 3k max ish
@@FordBossMe at about what milage should I probably get the timing system changed just as preventative maintenance on a 2015 Ford f150 2.7 current mileage is 112437
Will the Gen 2 5.0 Mustang phasers and timing parts work on my Gen 2 5.0 f150?
I can’t find f150 specific parts anywhere, Mustang parts are plentiful
My 2017 5.0 has phaser slap, but only after engine braking down a hill, and then accelerating up the next hill. Is that typically a phaser issue itself or a VCT solenoid issue?
Do you have a video or a step by step on how to reinstall all FOUR camshafts for a 3.5 TT when you do not document there original positions before removing?
No I don't
Well this also throw a p0300 code? I have a Nissan frontier I'm fighting with it's running rough and when revving to 3k ses flashes and sets the code. But if you don't rev it up check engine light stays off I did a vacuum test and it shows late ignition timing you give it throttle vacuum goes almost to zero so I thought could be a clogged exhaust but when holding it at 2000 or 3000 vacuum stays at late ignition timing. But also the O2 on bank 2 sensor 2 shows no graph nothing moving could it just be the O2
Is that the only code?
@@FordBossMe yes and it's sluggish revving up to 4 or 5k but
@@FordBossMe I also did a power balance test and all six cylinders dropped out like they're supposed to I just pulled the valve cover on bank two and I can't turn the cam so the phaser is not broke at least
My Lincoln has been making that noise since yesterday morning on cold starts, like an diesel running until I’m at operating temps with an light oil burn smell. Thought it might be bad gas. How are you settling into your new home?
I'm not in the new home I had to move out of the apartment today and I don't move into the new home until Wednesday
@@FordBossMe oh ok. I’m still glad you got an home
Awesome video! Thanks for this! I just started rattling last week. Flood mode works for quieting down the startup rattle, but I have developed a slight tap on idle after warmup. How problematic do you think it is to drive using flood mode start until ford can repair it,?
Ford Boss Me, I think I heard you say in one of your videos that ford has updated part or part numbers for F-150 5.0 Cam Phasers. Would you happen to know or have it written down somewhere what the updated pet numbers are ? It may be I heard this from another ford channel. Pardon if I’m mistaken. Love your channel. Wish I lived closer so I could have you work in my 2018 F-150 5.0. She’s been a pain but I’m not ready to give up on her yet.
No didn't say that about the 5.0
I said that about the 3.5 ecoboost f150s
My 2013 f150 with 3.7 is making that same noise only when hot at idle to 1500 rpm. Been trying to figure it out. Maybe cam phasers?
Thanks for this video. Very helpful and the exact problem I am currently facing with my F150
I know this is an older video my truck has advanced failure. My question being will it cause catastrophic failure in the long run or will it just rattle?
According to Ford Motor Company no long-term damage can be done but I don't believe that because you can hear the engine logging down sometimes as if it's stumbling trying to get into its power band because things aren't adjusting correctly
Did you fix it? If so how?
Is that s husky tool box? Looks like the one I have chrome wheels and the dresser with the wood table
Yes it is, I have a couple
Husky was my first bigger box - then I got a macimizer from Mac
Question, I had a 2018 3.5 ecoboost come in woth an intermittent low oil pressure light flicker. While it was in I could not duplicate it. Cold start to idle for 1.5 hours in 90* weather today in Central AZ. Never did it for me. Any thing common on these besides just the sensor.
No not really, what services were performed while it was there? Was an oil change done?
@@FordBossMe negative that was their complaint. Oil change was not performed by us, and it had a wix filter on it.
@@jasonmccoy6052 I would have changed the oil put a Ford filter on it
I've been having some issues lately with oil filters
@@FordBossMe gotcha that's what I suggested but the customer declined. Thanks man.
So the 21N03 only covers the Cam Phasers essentially? Some other things obviously but if it is in warranty the other parts can be replaced? Like guides, chains, and tensioners etc.
Yes
IF you have an oldie, "Flood Mode" for the win. First startup of a cold engine, gets that oil pressure up. Best way to keep an old 4L SOHC going. BUT first time you try it, do it on a warm engine, in case your throttle cable is stretched out and you're not WOT. If it is, just put a zip tie around the very end of the throttle cable and cut it off short.
will running Amsoil synthetic oil be better to use with the cam phaser and vct solenoid issue?
Did you crank it without timing chain cover on. I only ask because I didn’t know you could. I’m about to install the parts. It would be nice if I could start it before I put it back together then find out so things wrong.
No I didn't crank It first
Hello we have a ford 3.5 eco boost with cold start rattle. We changed the old phasers for the new updated ones, now there is not any noise but we get the P0017 failure. What can we do?
I'll talk about thos in thos.mornings video
Look for it when you get up
Should i be priming the oil on my 2020 3.5 eco?
How much did a job like this cost? Asking for myself as mine 18 lariat just started this ticking..... only thing I've done differnt was use a Fram oil filter this last oil change and that's when it happened
Will change the oil filter to the Motorcraft oe and see if it's still doing it
There's a lot of stuff that goes into this did you use a good quality frame one or did you use a very poor one did you use the correct one there's a lot of questions we have to ask here and I don't want this pinned on the oil filter just because it's the oil filter
This job is about 3 Grand 3,200 something like that
So finally had time to take it to a trusted shop and it turns out it was a rocker arm. Thank you for taking the time to reply with some help bro, much appreciated!
i just bought a 2017 raptor and has no rattle on start up should I prime the oil before every cold start up for preventive maintenance?
Yes
Outstanding mechanical skills Sir!
What percentage of performance and fuel mileage is gained using an overhead cam design vs. a pushrod engine? Help this 62-year-old fan of the 4.6 2V understand.
I don't know percent but I can talk in terms of power is greater and more efficiently given
think of it like this. Pushrods are weight, weight means drag. if your whole valve train weighs say 3kg (just a number) and your whole valve train WITH pushrods weighs 4kg. you're already 25% more efficient. any drag taken out of the engine goes to the wheels.
the hydraulic lifters create alot more drag than rollers as well, hence the commonality of all the roller cams now. more power, more efficient. better on emisions
whats ur thought on the 2015 3.5?
i have 85k miles i have not heard any weird noises i dont baby it have had it since it had 19k miles . watching all your videos makes me wish i got the 5.0 as much as i love this truck
They seem to be ok for the most part
Hi there, thanks for the video. Will this issue on a 2021+ Raptor or 2022+ Tremors non V8 engines?
No
@@FordBossMe Thank You. Keep up the good work.
I have an 05 ford expedition and changed out ignition coils spark plugs and it still gives me a little shake and at 40mph it hesitates
You could be dealing with a whole bunch of things man not just ignition it could be fuel it could be a torque converter problem I mean you can't just throw Parts at something and expect to find it
Have you ever had or heard of any phaser failures on the 5.0? Kinda curious.
Rarely but yes
Does that oil priming procedure work the same on a 2013 Ford Taurus 3.5 engine?
Yes
@@FordBossMe got it... thanks 👍
What's the new vct phasers part # I got mine but they don't look the same I waited a month to receive them that's horrible if I didn't get the updated ones. I order
Hl3z-6256-cd and HL3Z-6C525-CD
And I got hl3e-6c525-cd and hl3e-6c524-cd that's the numbers on the phasers what do you think
Lots of usful info thanks for sharing!I want you to work on my 2019 Expedition that has cam phasers and turbos rattling at start up. We are at 53000 miles. Can we request you at the dealership?
Yes you can
@@FordBossMe Dropped it off today. I do have start up videos if that would help determine what is going on. Thank you
Mine 18 F150 is making this exact same noise. Have a thread open on it on the F150 forum about it.
What happens in the long run if you ignore the rattling. I have a 18 3.5 and the startup rattle is intermittent and I have other vehicles that I drive daily and only drive the truck a few times a month. I bought it a year ago with 78k on it and I wasn't aware of the phaser problem. I've only put 1200 miles on it since I've owned it
Technically Ford says nothing's going to happen but nobody wants to see and find out
Thanks for the fast response. I just started following you and you seem to be honest and know your shit . Someone I can trust
You recommend staying away from buying a 2018 3.5 f150 with hundred thousand miles? Seller states that the cam phaser have been changed
Ehhh I'm impartial
Why not just torque the VCT solenoid bolts with a wrench holding the cam flats?
Those newer timing setups look much simpler compared to the older ones that had secondary chains.
I don't know what you're talkin about with your reason why if there's a tool that holds both of them and keeps them isolated there's no reason to
You get better leverage with the box wrench in one hand and the torque/wrench in the other. I snug up the vvt sprocket bolts, pull the timing chain pins, pull the cam lock tools then tighten the sprockets with the open ended wrench on the cam and the torque wrench on the bolt.
We have the cam holder tools, but I'll still get a helper to hold the cam with my flank drive adjustable wrench on the hex portion of the cams in conjuction with the special tool also holding the cams while I perform the final torque stage.
Hi which dealship do you work for? I’d like you to check my 5.0. Thanks.
Poissorichard.rp@gmail.com
How much did this magnificent job cost?
Have you ever had one with the chain broke and if so were you able to repair it without replacing the engine. 2013 3.5
No the one I did got an engine
2016 f150 with 5.0 with 95k, had p0011/p0012 and keeps shutting itself off when at idle. Intermittent, won't happen when cold. Only when motor is heated up. Dealer did VCTs and seemed better but now it's back to where it was, shutting off. Dealer reluctant to do phasers on 5.0.
Chain?
They want to do spark plugs and stuff more around a tune up. I feel like they want to keep soaking me for $500 visits versus fixing the issue. Codes don't always come up but they're always the same ones when they do. No misfire codes or stuff like that 🤷🏻♂️
I’m not mechanically inclined so forgive me if this a stupid question but doing the flood mode for every cold start doesn’t cause any other problems while priming your engine? Thanks
Not that I know of but you raise a good question
SOunds just like my 2017. When they get "too far gone" what happens after that?
Rattle rattle
@@FordBossMe but will it leave me stranded?