I personally think Ghetsis works in the concept of the game. Yes, he wants to take over the world, but he was smart enough to manipulate a topic that would allow him to work secretly, luring in people both like him and genuinely good people who believed in N's ideals. One of my favorite things in B/W is talking to the Plasma grunts. You get so much depth from them. You have some fully evil, some who truly believed in N, and some that thought of Pokemon as tools, but those very Pokemon formed attachments to them, making them begin to question everything. Ghetsis is basically that politician that uses a topic with merit and twists it for their own gain.
Personally, Ghetsis is more than just generic. His sense of morality is freaking twisted, where he's MORE than just viewing Pokémon as tools, but PEOPLE as well. He personally shaped N, the very person who lead Team Plasma as a puppet for his OWN ends, he was the true leader in the shadows, a menace who was capable of twisting the very ideals of everyday people with his speeches alone, but when he was by himself, shades of his narcissism started to show when he briefly says I before the we part when referring to ruling the world. He actually was able to maintain a facade around Team Plasma and N, while the six other Sages (Yes, Ghetsis was one of the 7 Sages of Team Plasma) knew what his intent was, but he held an incredibly tight grip on their actions, keeping them VERY tight lipped about what Ghetsis was truly like until Ghetsis was defeated and you find them in the postgame. After being defeated, he pulled a final F*** YOU on you by getting the Shadow Triad to bust him out of confinement in which you find him in Pokémon BW2, where he's managed to assemble Neo Team Plasma, which was shades of his former self, but revealed he was going off the deep end as he went straight to terrorism and a full on psychopath by ordering Kyurem to basically KILL YOU if it weren't for N saving you at the last second! Ghetsis not only was a master manipulator, he knew EXACTLY how to bend the wills of people to do exactly as he wished by tapping into the very ideals of every individual, but when you manage to unravel him, he shows how he is truly a narcissist, who is wholly bent on dominating EVERYTHING!
Ghetsis stands out because he's the only pokemon villain portrayed as COMPLETELY irredeemable and with no good qualities (even Lysandre USED to be a good man until he went crazy). Sure, as an RPG villain he's standard but in pokemon? None compare, and it helps make him kinda scary. He's certaily better than Rose.
The thing about Ghetsis is that his motivations are standard, but his execution of them are drastically more ruthless and terrifying than any other villain in the franchise. To accomplish his goals, Ghetsis either succeeded or tried to make the people of the region question their morality about capturing Pokémon and making them fight, managed to warp the mind of Star child N into trying to take over the region, captured and experimented on the legendary Kyurem, ordered his forces to bombard an entire city with powerful ice blasts (because who knows how many people and Pokémon that killed), and he even ON SCREEN tried to use Kyurem’s power to KILL the protagonist of the second games. Giovani was intimidating because he treated Pokémon like tools, Cyrus was terrifying because he treated his own followers as tools, but only Ghetsis has displayed a complete lack of concern or care towards both people AND Pokémon. Ghetsis corrupted heart and twisted mind that there’s legitimately no compassion or justification in him. With the exception of maybe Cipher and Snagum, the leaders of the other evil teams could try to rationalize their beliefs and see themselves as in the right, but Ghetsis knows he’s evil and he doesn’t care. That’s why he had to hide his true motivations and use N as a figure head. He knew that if everyone was aware of his plans then they would turn against him. Ghetsis shows no regard for anyone or anything and has an insatiable desire to just rule everything, and that incredibly disturbing. I’m going to end off on a point that I don’t think most people are aware of. When you fight Ghetsis in Black and White, there’s something in the game files. Data-miners found that Ghetsis ace Pokémon Hydriegon actually has the lowest possible friendship level a Pokémon can have. This isn’t something that is believed to exist in any other evil team leader’s Pokémon. The reason for this is because Pokemon increase there friendship level naturally and the only way to get a friendship level down this low is to actively try to make the Pokémon hate you. Ghetsis’ own ace Pokémon completely despises him, and it’s probably because Ghetsis himself tried to make his Pokémon hat him. The reason this is so shocking is because, ordinarily, this is something the player would have no knowledge of. You can’t see an enemy Pokémon’s friendship level in game, so you wouldn’t be able to tell just by looking at it. The creators added this in under the expectation that most people would never know about it, but this demonstration of how Rotten of a human being Ghetsis is was still something they decided to add in order to solidify his horribleness. There is legitimately nothing this guy cares about other than his own lust for power, and nothing (not even his own Pokémon) are safe from his cruelty. Other villains may have had bigger goals or better motivations, but you will never find a single character in all of Pokémon that is a better representation of true evil than the man called Ghetsis.
To add to the Hydriegon friendship thing; Ghetsis' Hydriegon has a move called Frustration.... A full-power attack that grows more powerful the less the user likes its Trainer. Meaning that move is REALLY dangerous considering the fact that Ghetsis' Hydriegon despises him and really shows how terrible Ghetsis is.
Yeah, I heard about that formally unknown detail about Hydreigon. Though talking of what made the other bosses scary: Giovanni was honestly not that intimidating, at least not to the same capacity someone like Cyrus or Ghetsis does. What made him so daunting, at least at first, was: 1. He had and still has an iconic design; we've all heard of Team Rocket at least once, but EVERYONE recognizes the often orange-red and/or black suit that he's known for using, as well as his intimidating gaze, and how mysterious he was for much of the anime's first season. 2. His actual reach was the really intimidating part; no matter which part of Kanto you're in (say for maybe Pallet Town), you can find their mitts, either directly or indirectly, contributing to the Region in some way. And the fact that Giovanni maintained such anonymity despite being technically a Gym Leader is either saying something of the security of the Region, or just how smooth of an operator Giovanni can be in terms of his practices. Cyrus is scary for multiple reasons actually, some of which you already mentioned. But to me, one of the scariest parts about him is how...unreachable he is. He acts like emotions are a curse, appropriately shows little of his own outside of mild annoyance or just highly dry contempt for his fellow man, and his goals would essentially destroy all of reality, including potentially himself...and he doesn't give two hunks of coprolite about it! That's not just a misanthropic monster...he's one that has nothing to lose and objectively nothing to gain. He claimed to want to recreate a new reality without emotions, but...what made him so sure that would actually work? You don't get banished by Arceus himself to your own pocket dimension for being obedient, that's all I'm gonna say. And in Platinum, his literal exit from this world seemed almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I even remember muttering during that scene..."There he goes to his precious paradise...and I hope he likes it!" As for Ghetsis...while I agree the execution makes him a lot more intimidating than he theoretically oughta, I still understand why he'd still be seen as kinda generic. Yeah, he's got the Hydreigon despises him angle, but he still doesn't have much going for him overall. At least, that's how it feels in the first game. In B2W2, though, he fully blossoms into a true supervillain, one who has all the misanthropy of Cyrus, but the drive and psychopathy of both Giovanni and the entirety of Team Cipher.
Ghetsis comes off as an annoying man child, his screwed up leg surely doesn't come off as himself being intimidating, the player could have killed him twice over but probably felt sorry for him. Also, this "star" child supposedly can understand Pokemon but not understand that people are happy with them, so manipulating N is like manipulating a dog. I still do not understand why on screen attempted murder makes him so much better than any other villain, as for opelucid city, no one was on the street, we see exactly where every ice blast shoots. Giovanni also clearly knows he is evil as well and shows no compassion either, he abandons his own son, and as seen in ultra his greed of domination for the world extends into the multiverse, if it came to murder, I am definitely sure that giovanni would have no problem stooping to that level, but doesn't want to draw attention to himself, as was stated to be the reason of team rocket's failure in black and white. Also Ghetsis already saved 3 people who became loyal ninjas, for those 3, it is clear that he has friends and a sense of compassion for a select few.
@@rpgfanatic9719 "Ghetsis comes off as an annoying man child" Yes, and as we all know those NEVER end up being huge existential threats in real life. Oh, wait.... Also, saving people so that they will be your eternally devoted servants isn't friendship or compassion; it's an expression of malignant narcissism.
The color orbs going to the other titans only made sense when you looked at their respective games main menu. Kyogre's veins pulsing red, and Groudon's blue. It then makes sense to reverse it when both traits are lost for primal reversion having "infinity energy?" (relation to mega's unclear) flowing through them instead, and I always thought that this is what happens when done the other way: an even worse circumstance. Edit: also interesting note of Ghestis: his Hydreigon bodies N's team, equipped with Fire Blast, Surf, Focus Blast, and Dragon Pulse. He didn't just have a strong cheated team, he was likely planning to de-throne N whether you won or not.
@@runningoncylinders3829 it's entirely possible they took the opposing colour orbs to stop their opposing team from awakening THEIR ultimate elemental Pokémon
@@sev1120 If they did that for this purpose they wouldn't have tried to awaken their Pokemon with said orbs. I figured it would either cause a weaker reaction so as not to revert them to ultimate power as a precaution OR that these orbs would remind them of their long dormant feud with the opposite Pokemon and spur them into a frenzy!
"Except the whole city they took over", now I imagine when you ask Alolans about it, they reply "Eh, nobody wanted to live there anyway. Let them think they won."
Right? Like when I reached that town I thought back on how everyone acts and in my mind all I’m thinking Is ‘someone please tell me why they’re treating a group that took control of a town like a group of kids playing pranks on everyone?’
@@2212blackstar you know been seen no as no threat no matter what you do is very useful for a evil team honestly team skull could take over a country and all of its nuclear weapons and the people will still say they are no threat....
Because their focus after taking over the town is specifically just the island challenge, but the island kahunas are stronger than them, as well the player who naturally steam rolls them, furthermore, Nanu being a Kahuna of the island the town is on, let them take over Po town because he actually doesn't care about anything.
@Marav Reviews Except Yell didn't take over Spikemuth. They legit live there. That's their hometown, and it's so run down because it gets no attention from the outside. That's why everyone wants Marnie to be champion so much, so that she can force the league to give them the funding they need.
I disagree strongly about Ghetsis. I love how he played as the villain behind the leader of plasma, and when you realize he's N's adoptive FATHER, it really paints a dark picture. Pokemon Evolutions ep4 clinched the team for me.
He's also the first villain in the entire franchise to literally try to *MURDER THE PROTAGONIST* (via Kyruem, and if not for N's intervention, he may even have succeeded)!
@@Notfallkaramell Yeah, Ghetsis came across N during his travels and adopt him, mainly to mold into a person who could reawaken the Legendary Dragon. He even injured a multitude of Pokemon before bringing them to N and saying that they ended up injured by Trainers. Let that sink in for a moment. He adopted a young boy to act as a metaphorical LEASH for a Legendary and hurt multiple innocent Pokemon JUST to make N believe that ALL Pokemon Trainers are bad. And he kept this up until N was eighteen (He looked like he was five or seven when Ghetsis found him). And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Ghetsis isn't just a terrible person, he's a monster.
Not to mention, while I think the reveal could’ve been better, his motivation was honestly genius. Getting everyone to give up their most powerful weapons by appealing to their morality, meaning nothing could stand in his way when he decides to take over, it’s honestly brilliant of him.
One subtle detail that makes N EVEN BETTER is that he follows his philosophy. N dosnt keep pokemon for long. He catches the local mon when he needs them and let's them go as a thanks. He thinks pokemon should be liberated, but he knows he can't liberate them without battling the player to keep them off his back. I think it is a really cool detail that yes, I only noticed because of chuggaaconroy, but it really improves my opinion on team plasma. Also... DENNIS
And to think he only followed his philosophy because Ghetsis was such a skillful master of manipulation. I really wish there was more regular Trainers who wanted to stop you in the name of Team Plasma because they genuinely believed the misinformation being spread by Ghetsis' silver tongue, instead of just ALL Plasma Grunts, because when you think about what Ghetsis is saying, he's not wrong. I mean, you don't have to think too hard about it: to even get to him, to even stand a LICK of a chance against his team, you had no choice but to prove him RIGHT! Even when fighting for your convictions, you still lost in the end, because you let the villain be right; you HAD to fight him to stop him from achieving his goals, but in doing so you proved his point. It's a really well-thought-out commentary on the "intolerance of intolerance" paradox and why I think Ghetsis tends to get a bad wrap because he wanted to take over the world; though, to be fair, the WHY is not fully explored, which is kinda disappointing. He wanted to take over the world, we just don't really know why. Maybe he wanted to take over the world so he could kill all Pokemon? Being a hypocrite for the sake of rising to power so he could turn around and execute all Pokemon? I mean...look at the crazy shit Pokemon can do! I'd TOTALLY buy that to be his goal: Poke-genocide. I mean, Team Plasma's pretty much P.E.T.A. (except actually good X3), so I wouldn't be surprised. Plus, listening to his battle theme gives me that vibe totally. He's on the march, on a war-path for global conquest, and the only thing standing in his way are people with strong convictions that oppose his ideals...and Pokemon; I feel like the haunting choir that chants his name is a reference to impending doom: the people & Pokemon of the world will know his name...it will be seared in to memory...as he looms over like a grim reaper. Considering he straight-up tried to MURDER THE PLAYER in the sequel, ANY doubts I may have had about his endgame goal was put to bed under a thick blanket of ice. Just...FUCK Ghetsis is scary! O.O
@@bluestreaker9242 the way I always saw it is team plasma was 2 Peta, there were the Peta followers who believed in the cause, and actual Peta, who went to make neo team plasma, and bullied a muna at the beginning of black and white
As much as I dislike having to defend Flare, they do have better motivations than you're giving them credit for. Lysandre's issue about the world's beauty comes from people and their desires for it's limited resources. The team's membership are a bunch of wealthy elites who aim to live in an open and abundant world (like if Thanos wanted to wipe out 99.99% of one world's population) without those they do not see as peers.
@@Jdudec367 Does it? These are mostly spoiled rich people. Plus that is just the first part, shelter, clean water, repopulating, and more would also need to be done.
@@Enchie It does. They are, but many think the world just belongs to them, there are some who aren't selfish though so who joined Team Flare is more of a mixed bag really. Yeah obviously all of that would need to be done too.
15:24 FUCKING THANK YOU!! I absolutely hated how much they toned down Lusamine in US/UM. She was so much more of a compelling villain in the original, and it made sense why Lillie and Gladion were the way they were in those versions. We absolutely need to see more "realistic" bad mothers in media, because we need to recognize the way they work and so those that do suffer under them recognize that they are seen. Like, I don't want to give Josh credit with his Villains video (because there were a few issues I took with it), but Lusamine's fear of abandonment and need for control over what she could were still present in the original game and didn't need to be spelled out in US/UM. That's like explaining the punchline of a joke. It's unnecessary and essentially kills any of the intrigue a character had. And let's not even get STARTED on what the anime did to her.
thankfully it looks like the manga is going further with her villainy, actually giving her a goal and a plan to create a paradise by using the Ultra Beasts, going so far as intending to capture Necrozma for herself
@@sarafontanini7051 Her character in the manga is actually my favorite version of her, since she perfectly blends her personalities and goals from both SM and USUM without going too far on either side.
But it's also implied she wasn't fully in her right state of mind due to being stung by a Nihilego some time before the games begin, and losing her husband to an Ultra Wormhole, so...
I will agree with you about Lusamine's motives being dumbed down a bit in Ultra. But it's mostly because Ultra is an AU to S/M. If I were writing how things went, in particular at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone, I think I would have kept it the same. Chasing after her, battling her altered form, but with a twist. She'd be a Seventh Pokemon you had to fight. Solgaleo/Lunala would then break her free from Nihilego. But the resulting conflict would make Necrozma awaken and take the Legendary Pokemon for itself. That Pokemon would force the characters out of Ultra Space to see Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings Necrozma staring at them. That battle results in like before, Necrozma making several Ultra Wormholes to summon the Ultra Beasts and then retreats to Ultra Megalopolis. However, you can't follow Necrozma until you help the Tapu stop the Ultra Beasts. Only when you do can you go and face Ultra Necrozma.
Ghetsis Outfit in BW1: Hes cloaked in a colorful outfit covered in soft hues and semi warm colors almost as if he's trying to hide something behind those colors. Ghetsis outfit in BW2: Cloaked in all Black and grey the facade is broken he has nothing to hide he has embraced his inner darkness and is about to unleash it
I recently re-played Pokémon White and sadly even though Ghetsis is almost cartoonishly evil, his plan is surprisingly topical. You could tell he was evil the farther into the game especially when he starts talking to your character personally. And he makes mention to the fact that, yes not everybody is instantly going to release their Pokémon just because they say so. But that The sheep of the world would follow the orders and with them public opinion would force those who would stand against them to have to release their Pokémon out of sheer mob rule. There’s also one other aspect of the game at the very end that is absolutely terrifying to contemplate. While you’re going through the team plasma castle there is a scientist that makes mention to the fact they HACKED The Pokémon storage system, and are just waiting for their king to give the order, and then with the push of a button release every Pokémon in it at once. I don’t know why but that’s felt like more steaks suddenly hitting the character you’re playing as and the player personally. Like that was going to be N’s first order after defeating you.
@@geoshark12 but also remember team plasma was hypocritically fanatical. So if the Pokémon didn’t leave a trainer they probably just take them and then “Train” The Pokémon themselves until the Pokémon themselves followed the same dogma N believed in. So long as he never sees it himself it would just seem like his ideals were being vindicated.
I’ve seen so many videos that are just “ranking Pokemon designs” or stuff like that, so this video topic is such a nice change of pace, and opens the way for more in depth discussion
"Volcanoes don't rain, guys!" Ummm, yeah they do. They rain a lot. Mt. Sakurajima, near my house, gets a TON of rain thanks in part to its ash clouds. Mt. Kilauea and Mauna Kea in Hawaii get a LOT of rain as well. It's why the Hawaiian and Japanese mythology have a lot of focus on volcanoes as fertility gods. Hell one of the mountains in Hawaii and most of the volcanoes in Japan have SNOW on them in winter, despite puffing out enough smoke to require a nicotine patch.
Lyssandre basically wanted to commit genocide to make easier to have resources for his own society. This because his core objective was to use the power of the legendary pokemon to kill everyone and create an inmortal society in Kalos conformed only by people that agreed with his ideals of a society of never ending beauty (a.k.a team flare members). That´s why team flare is secretly everywhere in the region and why so many npcs are actually team flare members in disguise (some of them even mention how they even paid to be part of the team). It was actually a pretty interesting plan.
Fun fact ghetsis' theme is a distorted variation of Arceus' theme with his name being added to the halfway point so if you didn't ascertain that he has a god-complex the music outright tells you he has one
One thing she didn't bring up amd that makes Ghetsis theme more terrifying imo It shares many beats with Arceus' theme- but twisting it into something far more sinister- Not only showing his God Complex but his ruthlessness
Ya’ll talking about a team leader that reforms at the end. But picture this: a rival character that becomes the team leader. Imagine fighting someone who was once your friend who now has become some twisted mockery of who they once were. Be it though jealously, greed, whatever, they chose a darker path and now all you can do is try to stop them from hurting others, even if it means you’ll never see your friend the same way again. Hire me, GameFreak.
Okay I am so happy that you included Snagem and Cipher as they so often get forgetting so thanks for that. While I love Cipher and think they are one of the most competent teams as they basically had control over the region with no one even knowing they are arond and were able to capture legendry pokemon. Unfortunately they are held back by the fact they have no real end game or goal outside of making money by using shadow pokemon to put on more intense matches. It just a waste that they dident have a bigger goal and I would love to see them turn up again but this time based off revange as hinted at the end of XD. But once again thanks for including Colluseum and XD you are awsome
I've always thought that Rose was honestly one of the more interesting villains because of his message. We have a ton of great IDEAS of how to produce clean energy, but the problem is that many of those solutions aren't just temporary but also deliver more harm to the enviorment then they're worth. Rose I view as a commentary on that aspect, where his plan THEORETOCALLY could keep civilization up and attem forever, but could very easilly do more damage then it's actually worth.
There is literally not a single method of generating cleaner energy that would do more harm to the environment than Fossil fuels have done and continue to do. Also we could easily just switch to nuclear right now if we wanted, and so long as they Don't make the stupid decisions that lead to the entirely avoidable chernobyl disaster we could solve the energy crisis right now. The only reason they don't is because its far less profitable.
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Okay. Let's Play this game. Look at Wind energy. Oh certainly, great idea in concept. Using the natural forces of the wind to push a turbine and generate electricity. A simple and extremely clean source of energy. Except for several glaring issues. First and foremost being that there are so many of them in massive plots of land that it actively disrupts and Kills birds migratory patterns, so minus one to the enviorment. Then there's the actual process of making the material for fans that costs TONS of natural resources to do so there's minus one. And when those massive blades come to disrepair? Well guess what, we don't actually have any real means of reliably reusing or recycling the material, so it just ends up being scrapped entirely, with its material just leading to more pollution in the long run. In a similar manner to nuclear energy, fossil fuels are also easy to manage if you don't make stupid dedecisions. But you know WHY we use fossil fuels still instead of nuclear energy? Because you can Clean oil. You can't clean something that can kill you just by being around it. Or by just LOOKING at it.
Glad to see Ciper and Team Snagem getting a mention! Funnily enough, Pokemon Colosseum and XD Gale of Darkness were the first Pokemon games I actually owned (strange place to start I know). Also happy to see OG Team Plasma up so high!
I think Lusamine works so well as a villain because of how the game tells Lillie's story. In fact, I'd argue that the player character isn't really the protagonist of Sun and Moon. Lillie is. Which is why Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon hurt me so much because they totally neutered the intensity of that storyline by axing the Mother Beast.
A Galactic fan you say. A few months ago I did a character analysis video on Cyrus that you may like then. "Arceus doesn't exist" sounds like you'd enjoy the Dragnor army from Conquest. Its goal is to summon Arceus and defeat it to prove to the land of Ransei that it isn't worth fighting over. Flare was basically Galactic's cutting room floor but I still have to say how their goals really weren't what you think they are. They weren't out for "beauty" but rather resource conservation, and Lysandre HAD tried more direct means before. Unfortunately the place where he talks about doing so is relegated to a notebook in one room so a lot of people miss it. He had been a lot more charitable and funded those in need before, but others started to take advantage of his good nature, making him grow paranoid and come to see anyone who needed help as parasites. You notice that his recruitment cost doesn't mean immediate membership to anyone wealthy, and several members talk about being impoverished and having to do any number of things to save up the money. He isn't prizing wealth, he's prizing self sufficiency. Though of course by doing this he's also letting in the exact sort of person he despises, so his plan would have utterly failed regardless. Some other notes about Flare are it's the first team where the boss has a social life (even the stuff we later learn about Archie and Maxie's pasts still involved them being on some unidentified team together), and the use of Malva as a hidden agent that we've seen though the entire game. It makes sense for her to suddenly me revealed as a Flare--as the Holo Caster anchor, she's effectively the face of Lysandre's technology. And when she calls you up to deal with Xerosic, she's dealing with the last rival to the lab's fortune. Notice how she stopped giving updates fairly quickly--she took the money and ran. Was she banking on her boss to fail the entire time? Was she the *Charon* of the group? I also feel like you sold Skull short. Both of them, honestly (you know, they'd get along great). Skull wasn't just a shiftless bunch. They were suckered into being Aether's muscle and had no idea they were even working FOR Aether. Heck, they got pulled into living out Guzma's fantasy of being a trial captain, setting up the entire town as a trial with roadblocks and everything. Anyway long story short I love the Pokémon villains and feel like people don't really pay attention to them so it's good to see when they do.
@@BJGvideos You just said yourself some members of his group were just enough self sufficient to get into the group, but lived impoverished due to lack of greed I would assume? Considering they were able to at least come up with the exorbitant amount just to get in, and staying impoverished due to choice. And on another note, I don't think greedy people would join him, they would probably would spend that money on actual selfish desires, not for a cause they not know anything about.
@@rpgfanatic9719 Never said anything about lack of greed. Anybody who would want to join a group that was quite open about "everyone but us is going to die" is greedy, regardless of finances, and they did know that in advance considering that a few members bragged about it.
@@BJGvideos Knew about it because Lysandre explained to them why they were doing it for selfless reasons? I'm hearing different opinions from people in this thread. One person saying they knew nothing about it, therefore are idiots and you're saying they did. It has been long since I played XY to know these exact details but it's clear that this group is hilariously misunderstood and people are writing it off like they know anything about it. I might just have to play the game again for myself. I can't even trust the internet with small basic facts anymore.
The criteria for this list was really odd. I feel like it would have been better if you had just ranked them by how much you liked them, rather than mostly what they accomplished. Teams like Flare, while they somehow accomplished a lot, are boring and dull as tar. Whereas teams like Skull didn't do much, but they're so likeable that putting them low on a list like this feels wrong sometimes. It was kind of confusing, because a lot of the teams you said you liked, you put pretty low on the list. But maybe that's just me.
The worst part about Chairman Rose is the fact he has potential to be a really cool villain. Like rigging the entire tournament so Leon could win and take all the praise for himself would have been better. Even Twilight Wings made him really intimidating with his good guy facade and even tried force gym leaders into doing what he wants. Look at Episode with Nessa and how he tried to force her to quit being a model.
You do know it's implied Ghetsis abused his Pokémon Hydragon included right. Also you do know he manipulated an entire group of people. 35% believed in his og team plasma cuase others intentionally thought of pokemom as tools but where swayed over by N and the others. Then their where members who knew the truth and agreed with him. Btw if N beat the player he would have killed him afterwards and forcefully take both dragons for himself.
Team Yell was never meant to be the evil team (and Piers and Marnie aren´t evil team leaders). The plot twist with team yell is that they were the citizens and gym trainers from Spikemuth that created "Team Yell" as a facade to support Marnie, (the person they put their hopes on to bring back life to their town). They only did silly morally grey things (like "helping dreadnaw to cross the road" and "helping silicobra sleep well") in an attemp to delay the other gym challengers and that way stop them for making it in time to complete the gym challenge. In fact, in the silicobra scene you can see that they allow normal citizens to pass normally but not the gym challengers. They also wanted the bike from the doctor npc to chase them around and making them all tired. After they saw that even like that the gym challengers (and specially you, the player) still managed to get to spikemuth, they panicked and that´s when they did the only real "illegal" thing againts them (by blocking the entrance to spikemuth to completely stop them from having a battle againts Piers). When Marnie found out about this, she called them out and she even let the player go ahead and battle Piers before her as an apology. At the end, she participated in the finals and lost but still was able to make the public cheer for her battles which inspired her to take the role of gym leader and that way bring back life to spikemuth.
There are some great villian teams in Pokemon unfortunately it hurts all of them when a child, or a few, is able to take down their entire evil organization and plans. Kind of seems like there should be competent police in the Pokemon world
Actually that would be pretty cool that in a Pokémon game you tag team with a police officer to defeat the villain organization, while some police officer are dealing with of the grunts.
Unfortunately, police officers in Pokemon are either incompetent or non-existent. In Gen I, they blocked your way to a house in Cerulean City where the TM Dig Thief was literally in the backyard! Or they guarded the gates to Celadon City and Saffron City until you gave them a drink. In Gen II, one officer accuses Ethan/Lyra because he thinks that the Pokemon Thief would return. We get mistaken for Silver! Walking around Johto at night also attracts the ire of Police Officers. Looker is just about the only competent Police Officer in the series. Unova has Police...but they're concerned with battling you only. Alola has a side quest! Track down Ditto for Police Officers!
Ghetsis theme, the first one is as mysterious and treatening that he is, the second one, the fast phase reflects his true psyque which is a broken mind which biggest plan failed and now, instead of taking everything peacefully, he'll do it by force and embrace his inner madness of is necessary.
… I wonder if she’d include the villain teams from the mystery Dungeon games? We need to give credit to the ORIGINAL Team Skull after all XD Edit: Maybe even from other side games like Trozei, Coliseum, Gale of Darkness, and the Ranger games? I especially like Team Dim Sun, Team Snatcher, And Team Cipher :3 Please consider this, Ari! Pwease? There are literally no other videos talking about the spinoff games’ villain teams!
Let's give them some credit, that Mystery Dungeon Team Skull were intimidating but comical bullies (much like Jesse and James) is part of what made the REAL villains of those games more terrifying. You kinda miss the Team Skull shenanigans when you realize the real bad guys are A TEMPORAL LEGENDARY GONE INSANE and his manipulative death mummy reaper lieutenant trying to DESTROY TIME ITSELF BY FREEZING IT ETERNALLY.
The interesting thing for me when it comes to team Plasma is that the same traits which made them successful are the same things that doomed them to failure. They want to seem innocent and act like they wan to protect pokemon...which ends up drawing a lot of people who genuinely just want to protect pokemon rather than further Ghestis' evil scheme. Their whole line about trainers should let pokemon go means that they don't have large teams of their own. Ghestis wants to be the only one with strong pokemon, so his minions are all push overs. They managed to get far by keeping a low profile but as soon as they made their move they got crushed since an army of patrat aren't a challenge for a trainer whose skilled enough to beat the elite four. Even Ghetsis' manipulation of N led to their downfall, since N refused to keep a team he's no match for a trainer whose has actually raised and trained their team (though this is more of a story thing than a gameplay point)
also with N we need to add the fact that while this game started the unfortunate trend of making you catch a legendary mandatory, here it made sense because n has the other one. and the lore of the legendaries also plays into the plot better. and again. how often is it that a trainer, sorry shadow lugia you dont count, has a legendary in the main story you got to take down. i know it happens a few times but n will always be special to me with that clash
Team Galactic is my favorite villain organization. I always look forward to fight them when I replay Gen 4 and with the remake being recently released, my inner child is ready to kick their butt once more!
Honestly, when it comes to most of the head villains, what usually gets me into them is two important questions: How and Why. By this, I mean "How did someone like Cyrus, Ghetsis, Greevil or Nascour get this way?" "Why did Cyrus think rewriting all of reality was necessary?" "What unholy image did someone like Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, Greevil, Ardos, Eldes or Ghetsis see to make them think all this suffering and Legendary exploitation was a good idea?" Sadly, while I do love Sword and Shield despite its flaws, the same cannot be said for Rose. I get that the villain is meant to be hopelessly stubborn throughout, but really? Even when told the fact that the energy crisis won't be a thing for millennia, and that you could basically have this just be properly prepared for when the time was actually right? I also wanna give honorable mention to some fanmade, visual-novel-style Pokemon games used for new Regions made by UA-camrs. Folks like Hoopsandhiphop, Bird Keeper Toby and to an extent, guys like Truegreen7 and Gnoggin and Lockstin. Hoopsandhiphop's one, called Norcloh, has an interesting case of a villain with Cronus. To summarize simply, Cronus was basically what'd happen if Brian Blessed found the fountain of youth, dyed his hair blue, went into more of an icy ship-captain motif, and decided to go into genetics and turning Pokemon into Tundra forms. Without going into too many spoilers, I'll just say that he wanted to wipe Norcloh off the map by freezing it over and, quote, "Reverting it into the icy paradise it was always meant to be!" Now admittedly, that does sound a bit like the shtick of guys like Maxie and Archie. But here's the thing; his reasoning is that he's seen the worst of the worst, and that there were no innocents to wipe out when he nearly carried out his plan. It's also said in-universe that Cronus wasn't always like this, and that he had only recently acted out before disappearing to form Team Tundra, the resident bad guys of Norcloh. The reason I bring all of this up, is that unlike Archie and Maxie, you're way more intrigued as to that how and why. He just storms off near the end of the series, and with him gone seemingly without a trace, we never do find out what he saw that was so unforgivable. I mean, nobody is inherently born with the idea of essentially wiping out an entire country via deep freeze! What could he have possibly seen that would warrant mutating Pokemon into unconsenting Tundra versions of themselves? To justify all this misanthropy? That's also, sadly the biggest flaw in my eyes with Team Tundra. We get the motive, but the not the reason behind it. But it's also, like I said, very intriguing, and I hope one day Hoopsandhiphop brings for an answer of some kind, as I really wanna know how villains become who they are.
to be honest i would be funny if both archie and Maxie are color blind and the grunts are just too scared to say something like. "Hey boss you know that maybe the wrong orb."
You know, I kinda wanna see a Pokemon plot, where the leader of the baddies for the game is actually the protagonist's mom. XD Idk, I just think it'd be interesting.
Ya know what would have been really cool for SWSH Climax If Rose was like "IF we continue to use Dynamax Pokemon it will drain Galar of all its energy at any moment!" and its something we see him realised throw out the game. so he starts the game happy for the Gym challenge but slowly he becomes worried and more like "Oh fuck I need to do something or we are going to lose all power!" and after he finally tells Leon. Leon is cool with it but is adamant about doing it after tomorrow's battle. So then next day we get to that battle and once Leon Dynamax his final pokemon...The power goes out.. everyone is scared and screaming Charizard could not hold the Gmax Form. and Rose is already at his base prepared to enact his plan that we stop
.....i wanna play that sereusly also Make Macro Cosmos more interesting they don't even have good designs they just took the loby workers and put SUNGLASSES on them Oh yeah i feel so intimidating and their theme is.......What the hell is even their theme it's sounds like we are having a fun battle on a beach
“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succor of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." -- Gandalf, _The Return of the King_
Rose´s plan does makes sense though. And it´s highly tied to everything you hear and watch during your entire playthrough about the legend of Galar, the characters and specially about Leon. In fact, something that people loves to joke about is the whole Leon being an unbeatable champion thing but this is actually a huge plot point. This because Rose was developing his plan based on his (incomplete/inaccurate) knowledge of the legend of Galar (the one that talks about how "a hero" was the one who stopped the first darkest day). So in order to ensure the future of Galar (by making Eternatus scatter wishing stars once again through the entire region like it did 3000 years ago), he needed to recreate the events of the first darkest day. Because of this, he needed two things: to bring back the darkest day (a.k.a Eternatus) and "a hero" to defeat it (and in current times, this would be Leon, the strongest trainer of the Galar region). Which made Leon´s cooperation an absolutely vital part of his plan. As seen through the game, Rose isn´t really a bad person. He loves Galar, had a huge role in his development as a metropolis and has a great eye to find talented people that could help with that growth (Oleana, Leon, Bede, etc). But he also has some really strong ideals. And that´s why the scene where he expels Bede from the gym challenge for destroying the ancient mural is also really important. Because is meant to show that Rose cuts associations with anyone that goes againts the well being of Galar in some way or another. And just like what happened with Bede, he also got dissapointed with Leon´s actions. Bede not only was the challenger endorsed by Rose, he was his plan B in case Leon refused to take part in his plan. A challenger with great talent that could potentially beat Leon and become the champion. But he lost this plan B as a result of what happened with the mural since he considered Bede as unreliable due to his actions. Although he was unaware of Oleana´s petition to Bede and how unintentionally on Oleana´s part, encouraged Bede to go to extremes to help Rose. It´s also important to mention that the reunion with Leon in Rose Tower wasn´t Rose´s first attempt to convince Leon to participate in the plan (but the problem is that as the strongest trainer of galar, he was vital for his plan, so he HAD to take part in it). Quote from Rose: "Leon, we have discussed this a hundred times already. And you still fail to understand what´s at stake? You, who are supposed to be our champion". In fact, Oleana´s entire ambush to Leon on his way to the dinner with Hop and the player was their last attempt to get Leon´s cooperation by his own will. To the point where Oleana makes everything in her power to delay your (and Hop´s) arrival to the tower to gain as much time as she could for Rose to convince Leon, even if she herself had to battle againts the player to do it. At the end, this plan failed and Rose got dissapointed with Leon just like he did with Bede but he still needed him for his plan, specially after the experiments required to awake Eternatus (the explosions you hear through the game and that Leon took care of). Because of this, Eternatus was already fully overloaded for Leon to fight but Rose no longer trusted in Leon´s promises to help with the plan, which is why the plan couldn´t be delayed. So given the situation he needed to force Leon to cooperate (by awakening Eternatus in a way that Leon couldn´t ignore: during the final match of the gym challenge). Quotes from Rose: " I think it´s time to bring the darkest day. All for the sake of Galar. But I´m in a bit of a pickle. The energy released by the darkest day it´s too much for us to contain." "I´m sorry it´s come to this. But it´s you who forced my hand, Leon. You refused to listen" "In order to solve the energy issue, we awakened Eternatus but we couldn´t control it. The champion still came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon". So basically, the experiments caused Eternatus awakening to accelerate and their reunion in Rose Tower was Rose´s last attempt to convince him to take part in the plan by his own will since Leon was vital for it. But he refused to take part in such a dangerous plan and this became the moment where he saw Leon just like he saw Bede, but he was still vital for the plan. And because of this, he made sure to force Leon to participate in it by letting Eternatus awakening happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore (during the final match of the gym challenge) and Leon had to participate just like he expected and just like his plan (that was based on the incomplete/inaccurate version of the legend of Galar). But only you, the player, thanks to the fact that you went through the gym challenge, Sonia´s research in the places related to the legend and to the discovery of the lost ancient tapestry with the missing part of the legend (that hinted the location of the relics necessary to summon the legendaries that protected Galar), discovered the actual cause of Eternatus defeat 3000 years ago that no one else knew. And with Hop´s help you were able to summon the only ones that could actually defeat Eternatus (Zacian and Zamazenta), just like the two kings (descendants of Swordward and Shieldbert) did in the past and saved the region (while also ensuring the future of Galar with the wishing stars being scattered once again through the region). Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. I tend to write a lot sometimes XD. But I hope this helps to understand Rose´s plan with Leon and the darkest day and why he did what he did.
@@giboit. You're right. Personnaly, I think his plans make kinda sense. The main thing I have a problem with is it's motivations. Why doing this ? Why now ? Why hiding it ? The idea is good but the presentation isn't really clear. IMO, with a few minor changes, they could have make it more logical. Here is my take on it : First, let the 1000 thousands years in the future thing down, it doesn't makes sense. Second, make Rose a bit older like 60-70 years old. Don't change his backstory, he is still the big business man of Galar who love and improved the region. Third, his motivation. As he got older, he realises there would be problem to solve in the future and he won't be here to help. He doesn't have much time, so has a final gift to the region, he decides to give them an infinite source of clean energy. That way, his name will stay in history and assure eternal prosperity to Galar. He spent multiple years collcting all the info he could about the legend, and then he launches his plan wihout much changes. He keeps it a secret, as the big surprise he wants to announce at the most watched event of Galar. As you try to stop him, he argues that the price is worth it, for the future, and stopping it now will make it iimpossible to start again. You finally beat him and he understand the gravity of the situation. That's all ! I think that makes his actions more understandable and even less evil than they are originally.
@@maitremaitre9283 But his motivations are clear. He wants to ensure the future of the Galar region. And Rose literally openly talks about this plan with Bede in front of you, the player, and even gives you explanation about it afterwards: Quotes from Rose and Bede: Bede:" If I gather enough wishing stars, that´ll help you to solve the problem that has been bothering you, right Mr. Chairman? " Rose: "Oh, it´s not just about me. It´s for the future of the whole Galar region. And we´ll need more than just wishing stars. We´ll need a powerful pokemon trainer too. Someone like the champion." Bede: "With all due respect sir, I was able to show Hop, one of the champion endorsed trainers just how outclassed he was. I´m sure I´ll be able to defeat the champion. No, I WILL defeat the champion." Rose: "That´s the spirit. It takes healthy competition to really keep the gym challenge energized". Then Oleana interrupts to talk to Bede and this is when Bede learns from Oleana about the wishing stars near the mural and ask her to lend Rose´s Copperajah (without her knowing his intentions and making Rose disappointment in his actions even worse for using HIS pokemon to do it). And after this Rose personally gives you, the player, literally an entire explanation about why the wishing stars are so important in Galar, explaining how the energy from the wishing stars is transformed and used literally for everything in the region (and this was what helped him to turn the region into a metropolis in a really short period of time. Around 20 years ago by the way). That´s how useful the wishing stars are. And after this, he even suggest you to go check the Hammerlocke Vault, where the ancient tapestries with the (incomplete/inaccurate) version of the legend about the darkest day (the one that he is using for his plan). As I mentioned, Bede was Rose´s plan B in case the Leon refused to take part on the plan. But he cut his connection with Bede after what happened with the mural. Making even more vital for Leon to take part on the plan, specially after the experiments made to awake Eternatus that made it even harder to contain (as I previously mentioned) and this is why the plan couldn´t be delayed . Which is also why (with Oleana´s help) they prepared the ambush to Leon to have the last attempt to convince him to participate in the plan. And when this last attempt failed, he also got dissapointed with Leon (just like he did with Bede) but he still needed his help so he let the darkest day happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore, The story actually gives you many scenes explaining the importance of the wishing stars, the importance of Leon, the legend of galar (along with it´s inconsistencies), about Rose´s plan and about the darkest day in general.
I would have put Team Cipher in A or S Tier precisely because they were able to successfully corrupt Legendary Pokemon and the fact that they were the first villainous Team to not stick to a specific theme of Pokemon. Plus, each of it's higher ranked members in the first game(haven't played Gale of Darkness) played a key role in Team Cipher's Shadow Pokemon operation.
Things you forgot: ONE OF THE ELITE FOUR OF KALOS IS A TEAM FLARE MEMBER? And they did *nothing* with it. The second-highest in the overall gym challenge any evil team has reached, and she was only a reporter. That’s it. It feels like it was tossed in as a joke or something!
I was a freshman in college when Team Skull was revealed as the villians of that game, and my first thought was “why does it seem like they’re drop them most fire rap in Pokémon history?” And I wanted Guzma to drop a diss track against the professor.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Pokémon villains have been in such decline since gen 5. So much so that, in conjunction with the absents of an actual rivalry with your "rivals", I now wish "I" can be the antagonist, just to reintroduce actual conflict into the story. If I could write the story for a Pokémon game, The player would be facing off against someone like Grand Admiral Thrawn from "Star Wars", with an entire regiment of at least semi-competent trainers who DON'T just use basic 1st route Pokémon, but balanced rosters. With a goal of conquest of the region (as the end of the world being brought on by a legendary Pokémon has been so over done since Gen 3, it's frankly BORING now!).
pity really, team dim Sun had a lot going for them and may have been the A tier here, they had corporate amounts of power, their scheme to mind control pokemon was a complete success, up until they decided to go over the safety limits and clearly despite them obviously hiring from the home for the critically attention deficient, they achieved just about everything they wanted while within yelling distance of the ranger union.
My knowledge stopped at x and y and oras so I don't know about the later ones but my list would be this in terms of power or influence. Not counting rainbow rocket. But it did succeed in its multi world I guess. Plasma would be at the top since they actually managed to complete thier goals and n became champion as well as abuse Pokemon and use people's emotions against them. It's honestly brilliant how evil two face they were and still going in the sequel compared to team rocket who became a shell of thier former selves. Galactic after that. Plan nearly succeeds at the end in platinum and you see the steps they take to influence thier soldiers in the meetings plus nearly destorying the world. Team flare I can't remember what they did. Guess one of the members was an elite four so they had influence and destroyed a city. Magma and aqua released the two creatures to battle needing the main raquaza to stop it would have ended things but they didn't do much before and after. Rocket actually k1lled Pokemon and took over towns and a gym but they easily fizzled out after thier leader lost showing how fast they crumbled especially in silver and gold where they are just petty criminals begging thier leader to return taking over a radio station for crying out loud.
You haven't missed much since. Team Skull was discount Eminem wannabes, and Team Yell was just a bunch of ineffectual Fanboys. Long-gone are the days of fighting madmen trying to play God, or even a thin semblance of intimidation.
@@A88mph well the later games are more for children so it's probably that with later bosses. Also wondering if she will include spin off bosses like from the shadow Lugia game
The Pokemon Special/Adventures manga is top tier when it comes to villains. It expands on existing ones like Giovanni, Maxie and Archie, adds original ones (either turning some Gym Leaders/Elite 4 members into villains or making completely new characters), and even makes some of the more underwhelming villains amazing. Like, Team Flare goes CRAZY there (and it's because of it that I can actually remember the names of all five scientists), Lusamine is a perfect blend of her two versions from the games, and it took Rose, Sordward and Shielbert, the three PATHETIC excuses for villains from Galar, teamed them up together and turned them into actual menacing antagonists!
I have an idea for your husband's (or if Josh is reading this first, your) bosses list: Top 10 Puppet Bosses, or to avoid confusion, Top 10 Possessed Bosses. Bosses controlled by an outside force or where the bosses movements are beyond their control.
Can you please go into more detail about the evil team leaders one day? There's quite a bit of depth to them than what this video implies, mainly for N, Lysander, Lusamine, Guzma...And especially that disgusting monster Ghetsis. Seriously, he had the nerve to call Giovanni evil? When he's done WORSE? At least Giovanni's able to be seen a terrible dad and has SOME morals, dammit! Ghetsis is far, FAR worse, in my opinion!
Flare's thing was more "culling a vast number of people and Pokemon to preserve the world's resources," and only the grunts are particularly obsessed with fashion. (But I guess they wanted to hide things somewhat with them about the whole genocide thing?) They had some interesting elements tho, they're basically a genocidal secret police with one of their own being a member of the Kalos E4 and a newscaster. Malva keeps all of Kalos in the dark, up to its strongest Trainers. But they also listen in on Holocaster conversations, have some implied plainclothes agents, and are an extremely wealthy organization on top of that. Their leader is also related to an ancient king and is good friends with the Professor. The issue is they don't build on any of these nearly as much as they should have. And from what we gather with him, Lysandre was a philanthropist who tried bettering the world with his inventions, but failed to make any lasting impact, mentally cracked at some point before the story, and the rest is history.
I'm not sure if the Lysandre part was caught up as a joke, but I think you kinda missed the point of Lysandre's motivations. Basically he's saying the world is becoming uglier due to the way people treat each other over resources. He even asked whether or not you or your rival had to fight over the mega ring, or if you both were able to compromise from it. He feels that people are becoming too violent and ravenous over thoughts, actions, and resources of other people and feel like people would only fight and war more and more overtime over these resources. It's not as great as Team Plasma, but I do think this motivation is much more interesting than you give it credit for.
granted Lysandre's views of how greedy people are is made more questionable by the fact he seems to think people spending unreasianble amounts of money to join team flare is proof of their worthiness
Team Skull is my favorite villain team, I like what they were going for here, the dejected members of Alolan society, how no one takes them seriously in-story, Guzma being the best boss. MD Team Skull? I find it terrible. The storylines involving them are so contrived, frustrating, go nowhere, and you never even get to fight that Skuntank.
Honestly MD team skull should have been in the game more I think. If they grew as characters after the main story instead of disappearing/dying in that cave. It would have been cool to have them as rivals instead of villains after that.
Love Team Skull and Guzma (yes, I’m a hopeless fan girl, fight me) but the fact that you mentioned Urinetown? It made me so happy! That was the first major musical that I was ever in. My high school did it during my freshman year! I was just one of the rebels and a backup singer during the cop bit. My dad compared it to the founding of the Soviet Union
Galactic, Plasma, OG Rocket, and Skull are my favs. I have a soft spot for Magma and Aqua. Neo/Rainbow Rocket, Flare, and Yell can go eat a heavy bowlful of sand.
Rainbow Rocket was comprised of versions of the leaders if they had WON. They came from universes where the PC either failed to stop them or they never faced them, leaving their teams completely unopposed. Just to drive it home, here's the rub. Giovanni managed to take over the world unopposed by perennial badass Red, Archie and Maxie managed to turn their own versions of Hoenn into a waterworld or a dried out husk, Cyrus wiped out his universe and remade it in his image, Ghetisis managed to separate people and Pokemon, leaving him the SOLE Trainer in Unova, and Lysandre managed to blow up Kalos. To add further insult, these versions not only defeated the PC but they overwhelmed the Gym Leaders, the Elite Fours, and the Champions of their respective regions. So I wouldn't be knocking them that hard if I were you.
@@25Erix It's such an idealistic recreation of the team given that distinction and hardly has the mold of consistency besides their tacky new getup. Facing facts here that Cyrus, Ghetsis, Maxie, and Archie are quite different people it never made sense to me for each to follow Giovanni in this merger. All of them now no longer hold the same fear impression that they should have as the boss of their respective teams. I can get behind dark and gritty reboot vibes. But that's about it. We're well past the days of just having an intimidating mafia organization in Pokemon, and that's it. It's world-shifting crises or bust these days.
@@runningoncylinders3829 I mean, they were all basically kidnapped by Giovanni, and wanted to further their goals across the multiverse. And Ghetsis was literally planning to do the same thing he did with N with Giovanni. So they have their reasons to "follow" Giovanni.
Cypher would've been PERFECT villains if they had wrecked actual destruction. You had so many Legends and a completely modified Lugia, why you leave everything outside of your island intact?
Chairman rose: I wanna bring about the darkest day to stop a future energy crisis Me: *glances nervously at Electivire's pokedex entries that state that just one can power an entire city for over a year all on it's own (so think Jublife city as an example)*
What makes Ghetsis's theme so great is the fact that it mostly contains percussion instruments. Much like Arceus's theme from Diamond and Pearl. This shows us how much of a God Complex this green haired ass wipe really has.
Alright. I think I might need to briefly step in and explain some things from the Team Flare section. 1. The reason why they did this is because that Lysander say the world as corrupted and not perfect and wanted to create a better world and would kill so many people to make his dream come true using the Ultimate Weapon created by AZ 3,000 years ago back when a great war happened in Kalos. Which brings me to my second point. 2. The stones are actually gravestones for the Pokemon that died in the war 3,000 years ago. And if I remember correctly, Lysander is using the energy or something (I would have to look back on everything from the games to confirm) to help power the Ultimate Weapon but also using the power from Xerneas or Yeveltal. Bonus 3. Now this isn't from the games and is part of the Anime, but my goodness was his plan in the anime something else and literally almost worked completely. It was a different concept from the games and literally took over all of Lumiose City, controlled one of the Zygarde Cores and at one point, both of them, and then had a massive stone machine that looked like Zygarde 50% and destroy the beautiful sundial. This arc was one of the coolest things to see and having so many people fight back and even having Bonnie play a bigger role in it was cool. The battles were intense and even seeing all of the gym leaders, Steven Stone, Cynthia, and I think even the Elite 4 and possibly more as I never fully watched any episode of the arc but only small snipits, all come together to fight back was just amazing.
An couple examples of the Dark experiments of the foundation in Sun and Moon are Zygarde and especially: Type NULL. That pokemon was created by them experimenting with DNA, and just LOOK at it to tell what horrible shit they did to it.
@@DarthMolgy he is hinted at being one indirectly, after all SOMETHING or SOMEBODY had to design that pokemon I believe, at the least Type:NULL is definitely some kind of twisted amalgamation of Pokemon genetics. And the head wear is more than a torture device it's an inhibitor to prevent it from running wild because it can't initially control it's power.
@@AlphaWolf-is8zg Type: Null is obviously an experiment, but Zygarde is a natural entity just like Xerneas and Yveltal, and has NOTHING to do with the Aether foundation. It only came to Alola due to the upcoming UB invasion.
@@DarthMolgy hmmm...I just remember a scientist needing your help to regather Zygarde's cells and rebuild it. Which suggests something did something horrible to him. The only faction that might've broke it down is Aether.
I agree with team magmas rank. Especially with the fan fic what if story based in their goal. That story is really good of what if the protagonist failed to stop team magma.
While it’s one character and not a team, I wonder how Dusknoir from PMD; EoS would have factored into this ranking. On a side note, hearing “for the love of Hilary Duff on a stick” filled me with so much nostalgia for Chugga’s early videos
Ngl I wanted throw hands with Lusamine when I played Moon and I would still happily do so because she's terrible and Lily and her brother deserve better
Alright, let's see how I feel about your rankings: F Tier: I honestly have no arguments for who is here, but rather who isn't. While I agree that both of Galar's... um... "evil teams" should be here at the bottom, I also think that Team "Neo" Rocket should be down here, as in separate Kanto's Team Rocket from Johto's Team Rocket. Their "grand scheme" was to take over a radio tower to bring their old leader back. I don't remember who made this comparison, but to semi quote it, "Imagine if Team Rocket was a chicken, and Giovanni was the head of that chicken. Now imagine the chicken's head was cut off and the body is now running around on its own, confused and making a mess everywhere". That to me is Johto's Team Rocket. Also I forgot that Rose's goons even had a team name. Honestly Rose himself was just wasted potential as a villain, in a game where... well, a villainous team wasn't really needed. D Tier: I barely remember Team Snagem all that well as well as Cipher, (with the exception of the magnificent specimen that is Mirror B.), so when they show up I'll ignore them. In the fairness for what I said for Team Rocket, I'll accept dividing Plasma into two as well. Neo Team Plasma is weird, because I feel that they should be higher than D but lower than C if that makes sense. Ghetsis basically being like "SCREW THIS SHIZ WE BE TERRORISTS NOW" is frightening in its own way. Plus he is torturing Kyurem to do his bidding and wants to personally kill you again. Honestly has far as Neo Plasma goes, Ghetsis and Colress carry the Team. As for Team Skull... I love the little shits. Yeah, their best thing was stealing a bus stop, but they are great. Guzma and Plumeria are memorable to me as well and carry the Team. Also, as Fawful's Minion pointed out, all of the Skull Grunts are failed Pokemon Trainers, which is why their Pokemon are so few and so weak; they are all they have. (Also I love Mystery Dungeon Team Skull.) As for the who isn't here portion, well, as much as I want to put them in F Tier, I would put Team Flair here. The main reason being that the only memorable thing about them are Lysandere and his questionable goals and motives. And I guess that they had an Elite Four Member as a member of the Team. Honestly I always just saw Team Flare as a discount Team Galactic. Like Lysandere forgot to do his homework so Cyrus said "Here, copy my answers", except Cyrus gave Lysandere his first draft as opposed to the final project. I'm sure Team Flare has more explained motives somewhere, but I never really found them. Also, Lysandere's motivations make no sense to me in Pokemon X. I kind of get it for Y, he wants to commit mass genocide for... I think resources or something. But X is pretty much "I will force myself to be immortal because... reasons." C Tier: OG Team Rocket being here fits to me. Just the standard mafia who want money and powerful Pokemon. Very simple and efficient. Hmm... I usually group Magma and Aqua together. I'm surprised that you put Aqua here alone. Their plans (Aqua and Magma) are very same-y. Climate change for the world. And... well Sunny Day and Rain Dance exist. But due to the charisma of both Teams, I get why they'd be here. Now for the Aether Foundation... I know this is going to sound weird... but I don't see them as a villainous team. I see Lusamine and Faba as bad people, but not the generic Aether workers. I feel like they were just following Lucy's orders because she is their boss and they genuinely thought they were doing some good. If I had it my way, Aether and Skull would be swapped around, but it is your list and not mine, so... yeah. And yeah, Lusamine's USUM incarnation was hecka nerfed. Would have been cool to see regular Lucy get to develop after the events of the game and patch things up with her kids. And I already talked about Flare in the D tier review, so I don't think I need to repeat myself. B Tier: Like I said before, Magma and Aqua always felt interchangeable to me. While I agree that I think Maxie would probably do a better job running this plan than Archie, Magma and Aqua just repeat the same beats. A Tier: Nothing here, so... Okay, well, I will say that Galactic would have been placed here if not for my recent replay of Pokemon Platinum. S Tier: Yeah, these two Teams are the cream of the crop. The Grunts of Galactic are hilariously bad tho. Cyrus's back must really hurt from carrying his team. Wanting to destroy absolutely everything? Yeah, one scary mf, made scarier in Platinum I'd say. I'd say Team Plasma is the GOAT, but Gen 5 is my favorite. And, believe it or not, I 100% AGREE with N being a Team Leader over a rival. But... I do think you are kinda sleeping on what Ghetsis did though. I mean, yeah, Cyrus wanted to destroy everything, but like Ghetsis said, "What is there to gain from getting rid of such useful things as Pokemon?". He was the perfect "behind the scenes" kind of guy, manipulating the masses of NPCs, his own grunts, and even N HIMSELF. Does he seem cartoony and corny at the end? Well, yeah, but keep in mind by that point, you the player are literally undoing this whole plan that Ghetsis has been working on for YEARS. Yes, years, remember he had been grooming N for this moment since N was a child. And in both games, Ghetsis wants you DEAD. Yeah, other team leaders want to destroy stuff, but Ghetsis to me was the one guy who wanted to kill you personally, which made things feel, well, personal. And his Pokemon Team was the stuff of nightmares. And, as many people have pointed out, Ghetsis's team perfectly countered N's, which implies that Ghetsis probably planned to betray N at some point. Cyrus might be the most dangerous Team Leader, but Ghetsis to me was definitely the most evil. I could probably see him getting along with SM Lusamine.
Interesting thing to note about Ghetsis being the most evil, there's a secret hidden in the games files, basically, Ghetsis' Hydriegon has the lowest possible friendship level, he's the only Team Leader who has this, and there's actually a reason for it, his Hydriegon has the move Frustration, which becomes more powerful the lower a Pokemon's friendship level is, which means Ghetsis intentionally made his Hydriegon hate him to use the move at full strength No other Team Leader is anywhere near as evil as Ghetsis, which makes his Battle Theme all the more appropriate :D
I wanna see Ari rank each gen’s box legendaries. So Gen 1 would be: the 3 birds and Mewtwo (since they didn’t have box legendaries), Gen 2 is Ho-Oh and Lugia, Gen 3 would be Groundon and Kyogre, Gen 4 is Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, Gen 5: Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyruem, Gen 6: Xernes and Yveltal (and if you wanna include Zygarde too), Gen 7: Solgaleo and Lunala, and Gen 8 is Zacian and Zamazenta
I have a bias... Massive Nostalgia Bias... and say Aqua is the best team, for no reason other than Ruby was my first game, being sided with an evil team was awesome, and I thought Archie was cool. Look, these weird pirate dudes came up to me in Meteor Falls, beat up Magma showed me a clip of Rosco Mcqueen saying "Water!" on their Porygon Phone and left, and I've been a member ever since. But for real, I think the main problem with, well, all villain teams is that the most unique they've gotten with them is with Skull and Yell, who aren't really a major threat. Every villain team is just "Here's boxart pokemon, we'll use it to end world" and it's very stale. Just need a little more.. oomph, something different. That being said, I don't really have a problem with it, but I know people do care, so if you want my two cents, we just need a more unique goal or twist. Maybe the evil team is developed by YOUR actions causing someone to finally snap, or maybe they're trying to stop the boxart pokemon; maybe they're genuinely good people with a good cause going about their actions completely wrong. (Ok, will say real quick, completely forgot how effective Plasma was. Then again, I've replayed White and Black 2 how many times, and I still barely remember Juniper and Musharna was from this game? I can never remember any about Gen 5 for some reason)
Sun and moon remakes better have a 3 wave boss fight in the finale w/ lusamine where she fights you with her normal, aura boosted team. Then calls for nihilego and fights you using the Pokémon, and afterwards fuses WITH nihilego and you fight her in a Noble Pokemon style battle, that would be SO cool & actually feel threatening + add no healing and bam we got a fearsome person who’s dangerous and if y’all say it’s crazy remember volo had a 3 wave boss fight so anything’s possible at this point lmao
Being honest, I love Team skull as an idea, like, the idea of people who are left out by society getting all together to form some kind of brotherhood to protect themselves, it's quite a potent idea. Also, the fact that Guzma is the leader is a great thing, because he is someone who would be all for that idea, knowing he comes from an abusive father (I mean, we see bent and broken golf clubs at the house of his parents, and those don't break that easily.). Of course him of all people would create a team just for misfits that don't have anywhere to go, acting like some kind of replacement family in an island that didn't do anything when they were the ones hurting. Like, the team is not a good evil team by any means, but as a concept and execution, I find them to be quite good, like, they aren't even evil, just misguided, doing nothing more than petty crimes, yet surprisingly being able to take over a city (that one really surprises me), which later falls into ruin, which is almost poetic, children of a broken home living in a ruined city, their ruined home, all alone.
Honestly, other than you underselling Lysandre and Ghetsis(There is more to Lysandre than you gave him credit for, and Ghetsis is SO MUCH MORE than just another “Take over the world” villain…He’s also a master manipulator, and part of why N worked as well as he did), this was a very good list. But goddamn, you did NOT give Ghetsis enough credit as a villain.
Plazma is easily one of the interesting evil teams because they're kinda realistic the whole team has a cultish feeling with the grunts blindingly following seemingly benevolent goals but Ghetsis knows how to manipulate that and one could even make a comparison to a certain real life organization that says it helps animals but actually puts down a lot of the animals it recovers and some of them were legitimate pets living happily with kind owners and giving their donations to actual criminals all while disguised as a ethical organization.
Oh , i wanted to hear your opinion on the explorer games . Personally i really like them . Even though i never finished explorers of time because i keep loosing to Dialga , over and over again.
Maybe it's that her brand of evil hits closer to home. Lusamine's abuse of her children and high position are things that occur in our own world, making it a plot harder to detach from compared to other villains.
Ari: *Defends Maxie for grabbing the wrong orb in her nuzlocke*
Also Ari: "THEY GRABBED THE WRONG ORB!!!"
Link me
"Howzat? Out, handling the ball." ;þ
I personally think Ghetsis works in the concept of the game. Yes, he wants to take over the world, but he was smart enough to manipulate a topic that would allow him to work secretly, luring in people both like him and genuinely good people who believed in N's ideals. One of my favorite things in B/W is talking to the Plasma grunts. You get so much depth from them. You have some fully evil, some who truly believed in N, and some that thought of Pokemon as tools, but those very Pokemon formed attachments to them, making them begin to question everything. Ghetsis is basically that politician that uses a topic with merit and twists it for their own gain.
Ghetsis worked as a foil to N but he's still pretty lame and generic on his own.
Personally, Ghetsis is more than just generic. His sense of morality is freaking twisted, where he's MORE than just viewing Pokémon as tools, but PEOPLE as well. He personally shaped N, the very person who lead Team Plasma as a puppet for his OWN ends, he was the true leader in the shadows, a menace who was capable of twisting the very ideals of everyday people with his speeches alone, but when he was by himself, shades of his narcissism started to show when he briefly says I before the we part when referring to ruling the world. He actually was able to maintain a facade around Team Plasma and N, while the six other Sages (Yes, Ghetsis was one of the 7 Sages of Team Plasma) knew what his intent was, but he held an incredibly tight grip on their actions, keeping them VERY tight lipped about what Ghetsis was truly like until Ghetsis was defeated and you find them in the postgame. After being defeated, he pulled a final F*** YOU on you by getting the Shadow Triad to bust him out of confinement in which you find him in Pokémon BW2, where he's managed to assemble Neo Team Plasma, which was shades of his former self, but revealed he was going off the deep end as he went straight to terrorism and a full on psychopath by ordering Kyurem to basically KILL YOU if it weren't for N saving you at the last second! Ghetsis not only was a master manipulator, he knew EXACTLY how to bend the wills of people to do exactly as he wished by tapping into the very ideals of every individual, but when you manage to unravel him, he shows how he is truly a narcissist, who is wholly bent on dominating EVERYTHING!
@@XalitharDaskel Also another point, his team was purposely built to crush N's team.
@@XalitharDaskel Agreed. Ghetsis is scary, full stop! O.O
Ghetsis stands out because he's the only pokemon villain portrayed as COMPLETELY irredeemable and with no good qualities (even Lysandre USED to be a good man until he went crazy). Sure, as an RPG villain he's standard but in pokemon? None compare, and it helps make him kinda scary.
He's certaily better than Rose.
The thing about Ghetsis is that his motivations are standard, but his execution of them are drastically more ruthless and terrifying than any other villain in the franchise. To accomplish his goals, Ghetsis either succeeded or tried to make the people of the region question their morality about capturing Pokémon and making them fight, managed to warp the mind of Star child N into trying to take over the region, captured and experimented on the legendary Kyurem, ordered his forces to bombard an entire city with powerful ice blasts (because who knows how many people and Pokémon that killed), and he even ON SCREEN tried to use Kyurem’s power to KILL the protagonist of the second games. Giovani was intimidating because he treated Pokémon like tools, Cyrus was terrifying because he treated his own followers as tools, but only Ghetsis has displayed a complete lack of concern or care towards both people AND Pokémon. Ghetsis corrupted heart and twisted mind that there’s legitimately no compassion or justification in him. With the exception of maybe Cipher and Snagum, the leaders of the other evil teams could try to rationalize their beliefs and see themselves as in the right, but Ghetsis knows he’s evil and he doesn’t care. That’s why he had to hide his true motivations and use N as a figure head. He knew that if everyone was aware of his plans then they would turn against him. Ghetsis shows no regard for anyone or anything and has an insatiable desire to just rule everything, and that incredibly disturbing. I’m going to end off on a point that I don’t think most people are aware of. When you fight Ghetsis in Black and White, there’s something in the game files. Data-miners found that Ghetsis ace Pokémon Hydriegon actually has the lowest possible friendship level a Pokémon can have. This isn’t something that is believed to exist in any other evil team leader’s Pokémon. The reason for this is because Pokemon increase there friendship level naturally and the only way to get a friendship level down this low is to actively try to make the Pokémon hate you. Ghetsis’ own ace Pokémon completely despises him, and it’s probably because Ghetsis himself tried to make his Pokémon hat him. The reason this is so shocking is because, ordinarily, this is something the player would have no knowledge of. You can’t see an enemy Pokémon’s friendship level in game, so you wouldn’t be able to tell just by looking at it. The creators added this in under the expectation that most people would never know about it, but this demonstration of how Rotten of a human being Ghetsis is was still something they decided to add in order to solidify his horribleness. There is legitimately nothing this guy cares about other than his own lust for power, and nothing (not even his own Pokémon) are safe from his cruelty. Other villains may have had bigger goals or better motivations, but you will never find a single character in all of Pokémon that is a better representation of true evil than the man called Ghetsis.
To add to the Hydriegon friendship thing;
Ghetsis' Hydriegon has a move called Frustration.... A full-power attack that grows more powerful the less the user likes its Trainer.
Meaning that move is REALLY dangerous considering the fact that Ghetsis' Hydriegon despises him and really shows how terrible Ghetsis is.
Yeah, I heard about that formally unknown detail about Hydreigon. Though talking of what made the other bosses scary:
Giovanni was honestly not that intimidating, at least not to the same capacity someone like Cyrus or Ghetsis does. What made him so daunting, at least at first, was:
1. He had and still has an iconic design; we've all heard of Team Rocket at least once, but EVERYONE recognizes the often orange-red and/or black suit that he's known for using, as well as his intimidating gaze, and how mysterious he was for much of the anime's first season.
2. His actual reach was the really intimidating part; no matter which part of Kanto you're in (say for maybe Pallet Town), you can find their mitts, either directly or indirectly, contributing to the Region in some way. And the fact that Giovanni maintained such anonymity despite being technically a Gym Leader is either saying something of the security of the Region, or just how smooth of an operator Giovanni can be in terms of his practices.
Cyrus is scary for multiple reasons actually, some of which you already mentioned. But to me, one of the scariest parts about him is how...unreachable he is. He acts like emotions are a curse, appropriately shows little of his own outside of mild annoyance or just highly dry contempt for his fellow man, and his goals would essentially destroy all of reality, including potentially himself...and he doesn't give two hunks of coprolite about it!
That's not just a misanthropic monster...he's one that has nothing to lose and objectively nothing to gain. He claimed to want to recreate a new reality without emotions, but...what made him so sure that would actually work?
You don't get banished by Arceus himself to your own pocket dimension for being obedient, that's all I'm gonna say. And in Platinum, his literal exit from this world seemed almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I even remember muttering during that scene..."There he goes to his precious paradise...and I hope he likes it!"
As for Ghetsis...while I agree the execution makes him a lot more intimidating than he theoretically oughta, I still understand why he'd still be seen as kinda generic. Yeah, he's got the Hydreigon despises him angle, but he still doesn't have much going for him overall. At least, that's how it feels in the first game. In B2W2, though, he fully blossoms into a true supervillain, one who has all the misanthropy of Cyrus, but the drive and psychopathy of both Giovanni and the entirety of Team Cipher.
I would also recommend reading the BW&B2W2 Pokémon Manga for Ghetsis cause Ghetsis in the Manga is a MONSTER.
Ghetsis comes off as an annoying man child, his screwed up leg surely doesn't come off as himself being intimidating, the player could have killed him twice over but probably felt sorry for him. Also, this "star" child supposedly can understand Pokemon but not understand that people are happy with them, so manipulating N is like manipulating a dog. I still do not understand why on screen attempted murder makes him so much better than any other villain, as for opelucid city, no one was on the street, we see exactly where every ice blast shoots. Giovanni also clearly knows he is evil as well and shows no compassion either, he abandons his own son, and as seen in ultra his greed of domination for the world extends into the multiverse, if it came to murder, I am definitely sure that giovanni would have no problem stooping to that level, but doesn't want to draw attention to himself, as was stated to be the reason of team rocket's failure in black and white. Also Ghetsis already saved 3 people who became loyal ninjas, for those 3, it is clear that he has friends and a sense of compassion for a select few.
@@rpgfanatic9719 "Ghetsis comes off as an annoying man child" Yes, and as we all know those NEVER end up being huge existential threats in real life. Oh, wait....
Also, saving people so that they will be your eternally devoted servants isn't friendship or compassion; it's an expression of malignant narcissism.
The color orbs going to the other titans only made sense when you looked at their respective games main menu. Kyogre's veins pulsing red, and Groudon's blue. It then makes sense to reverse it when both traits are lost for primal reversion having "infinity energy?" (relation to mega's unclear) flowing through them instead, and I always thought that this is what happens when done the other way: an even worse circumstance.
Edit: also interesting note of Ghestis: his Hydreigon bodies N's team, equipped with Fire Blast, Surf, Focus Blast, and Dragon Pulse. He didn't just have a strong cheated team, he was likely planning to de-throne N whether you won or not.
I figured they had a good reason for getting the opposite orbs.
The Rainbow Rocket arc confirms that yes Ghetsis did plan to de-throne N, and in that reality he did so.
@@runningoncylinders3829 it's entirely possible they took the opposing colour orbs to stop their opposing team from awakening THEIR ultimate elemental Pokémon
@@sev1120 The thing is they do this outside of Emerald. Base Ruby and Sapphire do this where the other team has 0 plans of doing so.
@@sev1120 If they did that for this purpose they wouldn't have tried to awaken their Pokemon with said orbs. I figured it would either cause a weaker reaction so as not to revert them to ultimate power as a precaution OR that these orbs would remind them of their long dormant feud with the opposite Pokemon and spur them into a frenzy!
"Except the whole city they took over", now I imagine when you ask Alolans about it, they reply "Eh, nobody wanted to live there anyway. Let them think they won."
Right? Like when I reached that town I thought back on how everyone acts and in my mind all I’m thinking Is ‘someone please tell me why they’re treating a group that took control of a town like a group of kids playing pranks on everyone?’
@@2212blackstar
you know been seen no as no threat no matter what you do is very useful for a evil team
honestly team skull could take over a country and all of its nuclear weapons and the people will still say they are no threat....
Because their focus after taking over the town is specifically just the island challenge, but the island kahunas are stronger than them, as well the player who naturally steam rolls them, furthermore, Nanu being a Kahuna of the island the town is on, let them take over Po town because he actually doesn't care about anything.
@Marav Reviews Except Yell didn't take over Spikemuth. They legit live there. That's their hometown, and it's so run down because it gets no attention from the outside. That's why everyone wants Marnie to be champion so much, so that she can force the league to give them the funding they need.
Because Po town got messed up by Tapu Bulu... they just said eh why not and took the already empty town over
I disagree strongly about Ghetsis. I love how he played as the villain behind the leader of plasma, and when you realize he's N's adoptive FATHER, it really paints a dark picture. Pokemon Evolutions ep4 clinched the team for me.
He's also the first villain in the entire franchise to literally try to *MURDER THE PROTAGONIST* (via Kyruem, and if not for N's intervention, he may even have succeeded)!
Adoptive? I thought biologically. Did I miss something?
On the other hand, it's Ghetsis.
@@Notfallkaramell Yeah, Ghetsis came across N during his travels and adopt him, mainly to mold into a person who could reawaken the Legendary Dragon. He even injured a multitude of Pokemon before bringing them to N and saying that they ended up injured by Trainers.
Let that sink in for a moment. He adopted a young boy to act as a metaphorical LEASH for a Legendary and hurt multiple innocent Pokemon JUST to make N believe that ALL Pokemon Trainers are bad. And he kept this up until N was eighteen (He looked like he was five or seven when Ghetsis found him).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Ghetsis isn't just a terrible person, he's a monster.
Not to mention, while I think the reveal could’ve been better, his motivation was honestly genius. Getting everyone to give up their most powerful weapons by appealing to their morality, meaning nothing could stand in his way when he decides to take over, it’s honestly brilliant of him.
@@gamester512 Big deal, cyrus tried to reset the universe. You BW fanboys reach for the stars when it comes to this game.
One subtle detail that makes N EVEN BETTER is that he follows his philosophy. N dosnt keep pokemon for long. He catches the local mon when he needs them and let's them go as a thanks. He thinks pokemon should be liberated, but he knows he can't liberate them without battling the player to keep them off his back. I think it is a really cool detail that yes, I only noticed because of chuggaaconroy, but it really improves my opinion on team plasma. Also...
DENNIS
I like to imagine the Pokémon that N used in the final battle are the Pokémon that wanted to fight alongside N
And to think he only followed his philosophy because Ghetsis was such a skillful master of manipulation. I really wish there was more regular Trainers who wanted to stop you in the name of Team Plasma because they genuinely believed the misinformation being spread by Ghetsis' silver tongue, instead of just ALL Plasma Grunts, because when you think about what Ghetsis is saying, he's not wrong. I mean, you don't have to think too hard about it: to even get to him, to even stand a LICK of a chance against his team, you had no choice but to prove him RIGHT! Even when fighting for your convictions, you still lost in the end, because you let the villain be right; you HAD to fight him to stop him from achieving his goals, but in doing so you proved his point. It's a really well-thought-out commentary on the "intolerance of intolerance" paradox and why I think Ghetsis tends to get a bad wrap because he wanted to take over the world; though, to be fair, the WHY is not fully explored, which is kinda disappointing. He wanted to take over the world, we just don't really know why. Maybe he wanted to take over the world so he could kill all Pokemon? Being a hypocrite for the sake of rising to power so he could turn around and execute all Pokemon? I mean...look at the crazy shit Pokemon can do! I'd TOTALLY buy that to be his goal: Poke-genocide. I mean, Team Plasma's pretty much P.E.T.A. (except actually good X3), so I wouldn't be surprised. Plus, listening to his battle theme gives me that vibe totally. He's on the march, on a war-path for global conquest, and the only thing standing in his way are people with strong convictions that oppose his ideals...and Pokemon; I feel like the haunting choir that chants his name is a reference to impending doom: the people & Pokemon of the world will know his name...it will be seared in to memory...as he looms over like a grim reaper. Considering he straight-up tried to MURDER THE PLAYER in the sequel, ANY doubts I may have had about his endgame goal was put to bed under a thick blanket of ice. Just...FUCK Ghetsis is scary! O.O
@@bluestreaker9242 the way I always saw it is team plasma was 2 Peta, there were the Peta followers who believed in the cause, and actual Peta, who went to make neo team plasma, and bullied a muna at the beginning of black and white
honestly n is the only on in plasma i like.
@@bluestreaker9242
And honestly, that makes him the ideal Pokemon villain…He’s a truly evil son of a bitch, but he’s not wrong.
As much as I dislike having to defend Flare, they do have better motivations than you're giving them credit for. Lysandre's issue about the world's beauty comes from people and their desires for it's limited resources. The team's membership are a bunch of wealthy elites who aim to live in an open and abundant world (like if Thanos wanted to wipe out 99.99% of one world's population) without those they do not see as peers.
That still doesn't make sense. I doubt any of them know how to farm. I imagine most of them would starve to death before they do anything "beautiful".
@@Enchie It's not too hard, plus they would have their Pokémon to help them. So I would say it makes sense in a way.
@@Jdudec367
Does it? These are mostly spoiled rich people. Plus that is just the first part, shelter, clean water, repopulating, and more would also need to be done.
The anime also does them much more justice.
@@Enchie It does. They are, but many think the world just belongs to them, there are some who aren't selfish though so who joined Team Flare is more of a mixed bag really. Yeah obviously all of that would need to be done too.
15:24 FUCKING THANK YOU!! I absolutely hated how much they toned down Lusamine in US/UM. She was so much more of a compelling villain in the original, and it made sense why Lillie and Gladion were the way they were in those versions. We absolutely need to see more "realistic" bad mothers in media, because we need to recognize the way they work and so those that do suffer under them recognize that they are seen.
Like, I don't want to give Josh credit with his Villains video (because there were a few issues I took with it), but Lusamine's fear of abandonment and need for control over what she could were still present in the original game and didn't need to be spelled out in US/UM. That's like explaining the punchline of a joke. It's unnecessary and essentially kills any of the intrigue a character had.
And let's not even get STARTED on what the anime did to her.
thankfully it looks like the manga is going further with her villainy, actually giving her a goal and a plan to create a paradise by using the Ultra Beasts, going so far as intending to capture Necrozma for herself
@@sarafontanini7051 Her character in the manga is actually my favorite version of her, since she perfectly blends her personalities and goals from both SM and USUM without going too far on either side.
agreed og lusamine is one of my fave pokemon villans.
But it's also implied she wasn't fully in her right state of mind due to being stung by a Nihilego some time before the games begin, and losing her husband to an Ultra Wormhole, so...
I will agree with you about Lusamine's motives being dumbed down a bit in Ultra. But it's mostly because Ultra is an AU to S/M. If I were writing how things went, in particular at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone, I think I would have kept it the same. Chasing after her, battling her altered form, but with a twist. She'd be a Seventh Pokemon you had to fight. Solgaleo/Lunala would then break her free from Nihilego. But the resulting conflict would make Necrozma awaken and take the Legendary Pokemon for itself. That Pokemon would force the characters out of Ultra Space to see Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings Necrozma staring at them. That battle results in like before, Necrozma making several Ultra Wormholes to summon the Ultra Beasts and then retreats to Ultra Megalopolis. However, you can't follow Necrozma until you help the Tapu stop the Ultra Beasts. Only when you do can you go and face Ultra Necrozma.
Ghetsis Outfit in BW1: Hes cloaked in a colorful outfit covered in soft hues and semi warm colors almost as if he's trying to hide something behind those colors.
Ghetsis outfit in BW2: Cloaked in all Black and grey the facade is broken he has nothing to hide he has embraced his inner darkness and is about to unleash it
I recently re-played Pokémon White and sadly even though Ghetsis is almost cartoonishly evil, his plan is surprisingly topical.
You could tell he was evil the farther into the game especially when he starts talking to your character personally.
And he makes mention to the fact that, yes not everybody is instantly going to release their Pokémon just because they say so. But that The sheep of the world would follow the orders and with them public opinion would force those who would stand against them to have to release their Pokémon out of sheer mob rule.
There’s also one other aspect of the game at the very end that is absolutely terrifying to contemplate.
While you’re going through the team plasma castle there is a scientist that makes mention to the fact they HACKED The Pokémon storage system, and are just waiting for their king to give the order, and then with the push of a button release every Pokémon in it at once.
I don’t know why but that’s felt like more steaks suddenly hitting the character you’re playing as and the player personally.
Like that was going to be N’s first order after defeating you.
Though they do tend to act like Pokemon wouldn’t stay with there trainers
@@geoshark12 but also remember team plasma was hypocritically fanatical.
So if the Pokémon didn’t leave a trainer they probably just take them and then “Train” The Pokémon themselves until the Pokémon themselves followed the same dogma N believed in.
So long as he never sees it himself it would just seem like his ideals were being vindicated.
The part when you put Mr. Krabs' voice over a scene with Archie actually made me laugh. Was not expecting that.
I’ve seen so many videos that are just “ranking Pokemon designs” or stuff like that, so this video topic is such a nice change of pace, and opens the way for more in depth discussion
"Volcanoes don't rain, guys!"
Ummm, yeah they do. They rain a lot. Mt. Sakurajima, near my house, gets a TON of rain thanks in part to its ash clouds.
Mt. Kilauea and Mauna Kea in Hawaii get a LOT of rain as well. It's why the Hawaiian and Japanese mythology have a lot of focus on volcanoes as fertility gods.
Hell one of the mountains in Hawaii and most of the volcanoes in Japan have SNOW on them in winter, despite puffing out enough smoke to require a nicotine patch.
And "Jingle Bells"? Was Mr. Pierpont remembering the Year Without a Summer.
As much I love Team Flare, I don't expect them to get any farther than D Tier
explain to me how you like Team Flare?
@@rockowlgamer631 I like the fact they are scarier in how they are competent, despite being the biggest criminals by the fashion police.
@@No_Sleepee i guess so, compared to that one Team Skull member who was gonna steal a bus sign and give the bus drivers a break HA
Lyssandre basically wanted to commit genocide to make easier to have resources for his own society. This because his core objective was to use the power of the legendary pokemon to kill everyone and create an inmortal society in Kalos conformed only by people that agreed with his ideals of a society of never ending beauty (a.k.a team flare members). That´s why team flare is secretly everywhere in the region and why so many npcs are actually team flare members in disguise (some of them even mention how they even paid to be part of the team). It was actually a pretty interesting plan.
@@giboit. interesting plan, poor execution i guess on GF's part
Fun fact ghetsis' theme is a distorted variation of Arceus' theme with his name being added to the halfway point so if you didn't ascertain that he has a god-complex the music outright tells you he has one
One thing she didn't bring up amd that makes Ghetsis theme more terrifying imo
It shares many beats with Arceus' theme- but twisting it into something far more sinister-
Not only showing his God Complex but his ruthlessness
Ya’ll talking about a team leader that reforms at the end. But picture this: a rival character that becomes the team leader. Imagine fighting someone who was once your friend who now has become some twisted mockery of who they once were. Be it though jealously, greed, whatever, they chose a darker path and now all you can do is try to stop them from hurting others, even if it means you’ll never see your friend the same way again.
Hire me, GameFreak.
I've seen that topic done poorly in way too many fangames already, thank you.
@@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257 Then hire someone who will do it properly
So basically the reverse of Bede?
Okay I am so happy that you included Snagem and Cipher as they so often get forgetting so thanks for that.
While I love Cipher and think they are one of the most competent teams as they basically had control over the region with no one even knowing they are arond and were able to capture legendry pokemon.
Unfortunately they are held back by the fact they have no real end game or goal outside of making money by using shadow pokemon to put on more intense matches.
It just a waste that they dident have a bigger goal and I would love to see them turn up again but this time based off revange as hinted at the end of XD.
But once again thanks for including Colluseum and XD you are awsome
That ending though!!!
Sure made me feel like someone has a little bit of spite pent up inside of her!
Teasing of course sort of.
It IS the Spiteful Fox Pokémon, no surprise there. And the reference to the Zoroark N Theory was genius.
I've always thought that Rose was honestly one of the more interesting villains because of his message.
We have a ton of great IDEAS of how to produce clean energy, but the problem is that many of those solutions aren't just temporary but also deliver more harm to the enviorment then they're worth. Rose I view as a commentary on that aspect, where his plan THEORETOCALLY could keep civilization up and attem forever, but could very easilly do more damage then it's actually worth.
There is literally not a single method of generating cleaner energy that would do more harm to the environment than Fossil fuels have done and continue to do.
Also we could easily just switch to nuclear right now if we wanted, and so long as they Don't make the stupid decisions that lead to the entirely avoidable chernobyl disaster we could solve the energy crisis right now. The only reason they don't is because its far less profitable.
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Okay. Let's Play this game.
Look at Wind energy. Oh certainly, great idea in concept. Using the natural forces of the wind to push a turbine and generate electricity. A simple and extremely clean source of energy.
Except for several glaring issues. First and foremost being that there are so many of them in massive plots of land that it actively disrupts and Kills birds migratory patterns, so minus one to the enviorment. Then there's the actual process of making the material for fans that costs TONS of natural resources to do so there's minus one. And when those massive blades come to disrepair? Well guess what, we don't actually have any real means of reliably reusing or recycling the material, so it just ends up being scrapped entirely, with its material just leading to more pollution in the long run.
In a similar manner to nuclear energy, fossil fuels are also easy to manage if you don't make stupid dedecisions. But you know WHY we use fossil fuels still instead of nuclear energy? Because you can Clean oil. You can't clean something that can kill you just by being around it. Or by just LOOKING at it.
Good idea, bad execution.
@@concordiaharmony2302 What about water power?
Well this was bound to happen. Many pokemon villain teams are pretty memorable antagonists with very villainous goals while others not so much.
I note that their leaders tend to have strudel in the noodle.
Glad to see Ciper and Team Snagem getting a mention! Funnily enough, Pokemon Colosseum and XD Gale of Darkness were the first Pokemon games I actually owned (strange place to start I know).
Also happy to see OG Team Plasma up so high!
I think Lusamine works so well as a villain because of how the game tells Lillie's story. In fact, I'd argue that the player character isn't really the protagonist of Sun and Moon. Lillie is.
Which is why Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon hurt me so much because they totally neutered the intensity of that storyline by axing the Mother Beast.
Team Skull: Proof that their team is hard carried by their boi Guzma. As ineffective as a team they are, I can’t help but have a soft spot for them
they're basically trainers who didn't make it into the league or even the trials and basically became drop outs
they're not big threats....but they're fun and memorable BECAUSE they suck
yeah gotta love them.
A Galactic fan you say. A few months ago I did a character analysis video on Cyrus that you may like then.
"Arceus doesn't exist" sounds like you'd enjoy the Dragnor army from Conquest. Its goal is to summon Arceus and defeat it to prove to the land of Ransei that it isn't worth fighting over.
Flare was basically Galactic's cutting room floor but I still have to say how their goals really weren't what you think they are. They weren't out for "beauty" but rather resource conservation, and Lysandre HAD tried more direct means before. Unfortunately the place where he talks about doing so is relegated to a notebook in one room so a lot of people miss it. He had been a lot more charitable and funded those in need before, but others started to take advantage of his good nature, making him grow paranoid and come to see anyone who needed help as parasites. You notice that his recruitment cost doesn't mean immediate membership to anyone wealthy, and several members talk about being impoverished and having to do any number of things to save up the money. He isn't prizing wealth, he's prizing self sufficiency. Though of course by doing this he's also letting in the exact sort of person he despises, so his plan would have utterly failed regardless. Some other notes about Flare are it's the first team where the boss has a social life (even the stuff we later learn about Archie and Maxie's pasts still involved them being on some unidentified team together), and the use of Malva as a hidden agent that we've seen though the entire game. It makes sense for her to suddenly me revealed as a Flare--as the Holo Caster anchor, she's effectively the face of Lysandre's technology. And when she calls you up to deal with Xerosic, she's dealing with the last rival to the lab's fortune. Notice how she stopped giving updates fairly quickly--she took the money and ran. Was she banking on her boss to fail the entire time? Was she the *Charon* of the group?
I also feel like you sold Skull short. Both of them, honestly (you know, they'd get along great). Skull wasn't just a shiftless bunch. They were suckered into being Aether's muscle and had no idea they were even working FOR Aether. Heck, they got pulled into living out Guzma's fantasy of being a trial captain, setting up the entire town as a trial with roadblocks and everything.
Anyway long story short I love the Pokémon villains and feel like people don't really pay attention to them so it's good to see when they do.
greed comes from all financial classes, and he would be teaching them how to run the world afterward.
@@rpgfanatic9719 Well yeah but that doesn't change that he's planning on populating the world to the worst people and doesn't seem to notice this
@@BJGvideos You just said yourself some members of his group were just enough self sufficient to get into the group, but lived impoverished due to lack of greed I would assume? Considering they were able to at least come up with the exorbitant amount just to get in, and staying impoverished due to choice. And on another note, I don't think greedy people would join him, they would probably would spend that money on actual selfish desires, not for a cause they not know anything about.
@@rpgfanatic9719 Never said anything about lack of greed. Anybody who would want to join a group that was quite open about "everyone but us is going to die" is greedy, regardless of finances, and they did know that in advance considering that a few members bragged about it.
@@BJGvideos Knew about it because Lysandre explained to them why they were doing it for selfless reasons? I'm hearing different opinions from people in this thread. One person saying they knew nothing about it, therefore are idiots and you're saying they did. It has been long since I played XY to know these exact details but it's clear that this group is hilariously misunderstood and people are writing it off like they know anything about it. I might just have to play the game again for myself. I can't even trust the internet with small basic facts anymore.
The criteria for this list was really odd. I feel like it would have been better if you had just ranked them by how much you liked them, rather than mostly what they accomplished. Teams like Flare, while they somehow accomplished a lot, are boring and dull as tar. Whereas teams like Skull didn't do much, but they're so likeable that putting them low on a list like this feels wrong sometimes.
It was kind of confusing, because a lot of the teams you said you liked, you put pretty low on the list. But maybe that's just me.
The worst part about Chairman Rose is the fact he has potential to be a really cool villain. Like rigging the entire tournament so Leon could win and take all the praise for himself would have been better. Even Twilight Wings made him really intimidating with his good guy facade and even tried force gym leaders into doing what he wants. Look at Episode with Nessa and how he tried to force her to quit being a model.
Honestly, a plot line involving the Pokémon tournament being rigged from the ground up could’ve made for a great plot.
The most memorable thing about him is that unlike other mentally ill antagonists, he's not wicked as well. He's just got a severe idée fixe.
You do know it's implied Ghetsis abused his Pokémon Hydragon included right.
Also you do know he manipulated an entire group of people. 35% believed in his og team plasma cuase others intentionally thought of pokemom as tools but where swayed over by N and the others. Then their where members who knew the truth and agreed with him.
Btw if N beat the player he would have killed him afterwards and forcefully take both dragons for himself.
Team Yell was never meant to be the evil team (and Piers and Marnie aren´t evil team leaders). The plot twist with team yell is that they were the citizens and gym trainers from Spikemuth that created "Team Yell" as a facade to support Marnie, (the person they put their hopes on to bring back life to their town). They only did silly morally grey things (like "helping dreadnaw to cross the road" and "helping silicobra sleep well") in an attemp to delay the other gym challengers and that way stop them for making it in time to complete the gym challenge. In fact, in the silicobra scene you can see that they allow normal citizens to pass normally but not the gym challengers. They also wanted the bike from the doctor npc to chase them around and making them all tired.
After they saw that even like that the gym challengers (and specially you, the player) still managed to get to spikemuth, they panicked and that´s when they did the only real "illegal" thing againts them (by blocking the entrance to spikemuth to completely stop them from having a battle againts Piers). When Marnie found out about this, she called them out and she even let the player go ahead and battle Piers before her as an apology. At the end, she participated in the finals and lost but still was able to make the public cheer for her battles which inspired her to take the role of gym leader and that way bring back life to spikemuth.
There are some great villian teams in Pokemon unfortunately it hurts all of them when a child, or a few, is able to take down their entire evil organization and plans. Kind of seems like there should be competent police in the Pokemon world
Actually that would be pretty cool that in a Pokémon game you tag team with a police officer to defeat the villain organization, while some police officer are dealing with of the grunts.
@@starmaker75 that could have been you and nanu battling against plumeria and guzma in US/UM now that I think about it
Unfortunately, police officers in Pokemon are either incompetent or non-existent.
In Gen I, they blocked your way to a house in Cerulean City where the TM Dig Thief was literally in the backyard! Or they guarded the gates to Celadon City and Saffron City until you gave them a drink.
In Gen II, one officer accuses Ethan/Lyra because he thinks that the Pokemon Thief would return. We get mistaken for Silver!
Walking around Johto at night also attracts the ire of Police Officers.
Looker is just about the only competent Police Officer in the series.
Unova has Police...but they're concerned with battling you only.
Alola has a side quest! Track down Ditto for Police Officers!
Ghetsis theme, the first one is as mysterious and treatening that he is, the second one, the fast phase reflects his true psyque which is a broken mind which biggest plan failed and now, instead of taking everything peacefully, he'll do it by force and embrace his inner madness of is necessary.
Ari: “My favorite team, and the one that scared me the most..”
Me: “Team Galactic?”
Ari: “Team Galactic.”
Me: “KNEW IT! :D”
… I wonder if she’d include the villain teams from the mystery Dungeon games? We need to give credit to the ORIGINAL Team Skull after all XD
Edit: Maybe even from other side games like Trozei, Coliseum, Gale of Darkness, and the Ranger games? I especially like Team Dim Sun, Team Snatcher, And Team Cipher :3
Please consider this, Ari! Pwease?
There are literally no other videos talking about the spinoff games’ villain teams!
Aye Team Dim Sun! The Pinchers were pretty cool too.
And what about team cipher?
....trozei had villains?
Well, at least you partially got your wish with Team Snagem and Cipher
Let's give them some credit, that Mystery Dungeon Team Skull were intimidating but comical bullies (much like Jesse and James) is part of what made the REAL villains of those games more terrifying. You kinda miss the Team Skull shenanigans when you realize the real bad guys are A TEMPORAL LEGENDARY GONE INSANE and his manipulative death mummy reaper lieutenant trying to DESTROY TIME ITSELF BY FREEZING IT ETERNALLY.
The interesting thing for me when it comes to team Plasma is that the same traits which made them successful are the same things that doomed them to failure. They want to seem innocent and act like they wan to protect pokemon...which ends up drawing a lot of people who genuinely just want to protect pokemon rather than further Ghestis' evil scheme. Their whole line about trainers should let pokemon go means that they don't have large teams of their own. Ghestis wants to be the only one with strong pokemon, so his minions are all push overs. They managed to get far by keeping a low profile but as soon as they made their move they got crushed since an army of patrat aren't a challenge for a trainer whose skilled enough to beat the elite four.
Even Ghetsis' manipulation of N led to their downfall, since N refused to keep a team he's no match for a trainer whose has actually raised and trained their team (though this is more of a story thing than a gameplay point)
Hah! The Hillary Duff joke, I remember that one from Chuggaa. Glad you’re a fan of his, all references to him accounted for.
It's been awhile since I heard that phrase.
@@Zacman1123 Mother 3 baybeeeee
also with N we need to add the fact that while this game started the unfortunate trend of making you catch a legendary mandatory, here it made sense because n has the other one. and the lore of the legendaries also plays into the plot better. and again. how often is it that a trainer, sorry shadow lugia you dont count, has a legendary in the main story you got to take down. i know it happens a few times but n will always be special to me with that clash
“There is no Arceus.”
Then explain the three I have in my PC on my ORAS cartridge.
Team Galactic is my favorite villain organization. I always look forward to fight them when I replay Gen 4 and with the remake being recently released, my inner child is ready to kick their butt once more!
Yo chuaggaconroy fan! And love you guys too, I love the explorer team skull
A diet team rocket is just perfect for me cause I can’t drain regular reliably
Also, 10:18 did not know I needed that until now, and I’m all for it
Honestly, when it comes to most of the head villains, what usually gets me into them is two important questions: How and Why. By this, I mean "How did someone like Cyrus, Ghetsis, Greevil or Nascour get this way?" "Why did Cyrus think rewriting all of reality was necessary?" "What unholy image did someone like Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, Greevil, Ardos, Eldes or Ghetsis see to make them think all this suffering and Legendary exploitation was a good idea?"
Sadly, while I do love Sword and Shield despite its flaws, the same cannot be said for Rose. I get that the villain is meant to be hopelessly stubborn throughout, but really? Even when told the fact that the energy crisis won't be a thing for millennia, and that you could basically have this just be properly prepared for when the time was actually right?
I also wanna give honorable mention to some fanmade, visual-novel-style Pokemon games used for new Regions made by UA-camrs. Folks like Hoopsandhiphop, Bird Keeper Toby and to an extent, guys like Truegreen7 and Gnoggin and Lockstin. Hoopsandhiphop's one, called Norcloh, has an interesting case of a villain with Cronus.
To summarize simply, Cronus was basically what'd happen if Brian Blessed found the fountain of youth, dyed his hair blue, went into more of an icy ship-captain motif, and decided to go into genetics and turning Pokemon into Tundra forms. Without going into too many spoilers, I'll just say that he wanted to wipe Norcloh off the map by freezing it over and, quote, "Reverting it into the icy paradise it was always meant to be!"
Now admittedly, that does sound a bit like the shtick of guys like Maxie and Archie. But here's the thing; his reasoning is that he's seen the worst of the worst, and that there were no innocents to wipe out when he nearly carried out his plan. It's also said in-universe that Cronus wasn't always like this, and that he had only recently acted out before disappearing to form Team Tundra, the resident bad guys of Norcloh.
The reason I bring all of this up, is that unlike Archie and Maxie, you're way more intrigued as to that how and why. He just storms off near the end of the series, and with him gone seemingly without a trace, we never do find out what he saw that was so unforgivable. I mean, nobody is inherently born with the idea of essentially wiping out an entire country via deep freeze!
What could he have possibly seen that would warrant mutating Pokemon into unconsenting Tundra versions of themselves? To justify all this misanthropy? That's also, sadly the biggest flaw in my eyes with Team Tundra. We get the motive, but the not the reason behind it. But it's also, like I said, very intriguing, and I hope one day Hoopsandhiphop brings for an answer of some kind, as I really wanna know how villains become who they are.
to be honest i would be funny if both archie and Maxie are color blind and the grunts are just too scared to say something like. "Hey boss you know that maybe the wrong orb."
You know, I kinda wanna see a Pokemon plot, where the leader of the baddies for the game is actually the protagonist's mom. XD
Idk, I just think it'd be interesting.
Ya know what would have been really cool for SWSH Climax If Rose was like "IF we continue to use Dynamax Pokemon it will drain Galar of all its energy at any moment!" and its something we see him realised throw out the game. so he starts the game happy for the Gym challenge but slowly he becomes worried and more like "Oh fuck I need to do something or we are going to lose all power!" and after he finally tells Leon. Leon is cool with it but is adamant about doing it after tomorrow's battle. So then next day we get to that battle and once Leon Dynamax his final pokemon...The power goes out.. everyone is scared and screaming Charizard could not hold the Gmax Form. and Rose is already at his base prepared to enact his plan that we stop
.....i wanna play that sereusly also Make Macro Cosmos more interesting they don't even have good designs they just took the loby workers and put SUNGLASSES on them Oh yeah i feel so intimidating and their theme is.......What the hell is even their theme it's sounds like we are having a fun battle on a beach
“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succor of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." -- Gandalf, _The Return of the King_
Rose´s plan does makes sense though. And it´s highly tied to everything you hear and watch during your entire playthrough about the legend of Galar, the characters and specially about Leon. In fact, something that people loves to joke about is the whole Leon being an unbeatable champion thing but this is actually a huge plot point.
This because Rose was developing his plan based on his (incomplete/inaccurate) knowledge of the legend of Galar (the one that talks about how "a hero" was the one who stopped the first darkest day). So in order to ensure the future of Galar (by making Eternatus scatter wishing stars once again through the entire region like it did 3000 years ago), he needed to recreate the events of the first darkest day. Because of this, he needed two things: to bring back the darkest day (a.k.a Eternatus) and "a hero" to defeat it (and in current times, this would be Leon, the strongest trainer of the Galar region). Which made Leon´s cooperation an absolutely vital part of his plan.
As seen through the game, Rose isn´t really a bad person. He loves Galar, had a huge role in his development as a metropolis and has a great eye to find talented people that could help with that growth (Oleana, Leon, Bede, etc). But he also has some really strong ideals.
And that´s why the scene where he expels Bede from the gym challenge for destroying the ancient mural is also really important. Because is meant to show that Rose cuts associations with anyone that goes againts the well being of Galar in some way or another. And just like what happened with Bede, he also got dissapointed with Leon´s actions.
Bede not only was the challenger endorsed by Rose, he was his plan B in case Leon refused to take part in his plan. A challenger with great talent that could potentially beat Leon and become the champion. But he lost this plan B as a result of what happened with the mural since he considered Bede as unreliable due to his actions. Although he was unaware of Oleana´s petition to Bede and how unintentionally on Oleana´s part, encouraged Bede to go to extremes to help Rose.
It´s also important to mention that the reunion with Leon in Rose Tower wasn´t Rose´s first attempt to convince Leon to participate in the plan (but the problem is that as the strongest trainer of galar, he was vital for his plan, so he HAD to take part in it). Quote from Rose: "Leon, we have discussed this a hundred times already. And you still fail to understand what´s at stake? You, who are supposed to be our champion".
In fact, Oleana´s entire ambush to Leon on his way to the dinner with Hop and the player was their last attempt to get Leon´s cooperation by his own will. To the point where Oleana makes everything in her power to delay your (and Hop´s) arrival to the tower to gain as much time as she could for Rose to convince Leon, even if she herself had to battle againts the player to do it. At the end, this plan failed and Rose got dissapointed with Leon just like he did with Bede but he still needed him for his plan, specially after the experiments required to awake Eternatus (the explosions you hear through the game and that Leon took care of).
Because of this, Eternatus was already fully overloaded for Leon to fight but Rose no longer trusted in Leon´s promises to help with the plan, which is why the plan couldn´t be delayed. So given the situation he needed to force Leon to cooperate (by awakening Eternatus in a way that Leon couldn´t ignore: during the final match of the gym challenge).
Quotes from Rose:
" I think it´s time to bring the darkest day. All for the sake of Galar. But I´m in a bit of a pickle. The energy released by the darkest day it´s too much for us to contain."
"I´m sorry it´s come to this. But it´s you who forced my hand, Leon. You refused to listen"
"In order to solve the energy issue, we awakened Eternatus but we couldn´t control it. The champion still came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon".
So basically, the experiments caused Eternatus awakening to accelerate and their reunion in Rose Tower was Rose´s last attempt to convince him to take part in the plan by his own will since Leon was vital for it. But he refused to take part in such a dangerous plan and this became the moment where he saw Leon just like he saw Bede, but he was still vital for the plan. And because of this, he made sure to force Leon to participate in it by letting Eternatus awakening happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore (during the final match of the gym challenge) and Leon had to participate just like he expected and just like his plan (that was based on the incomplete/inaccurate version of the legend of Galar).
But only you, the player, thanks to the fact that you went through the gym challenge, Sonia´s research in the places related to the legend and to the discovery of the lost ancient tapestry with the missing part of the legend (that hinted the location of the relics necessary to summon the legendaries that protected Galar), discovered the actual cause of Eternatus defeat 3000 years ago that no one else knew. And with Hop´s help you were able to summon the only ones that could actually defeat Eternatus (Zacian and Zamazenta), just like the two kings (descendants of Swordward and Shieldbert) did in the past and saved the region (while also ensuring the future of Galar with the wishing stars being scattered once again through the region).
Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. I tend to write a lot sometimes XD. But I hope this helps to understand Rose´s plan with Leon and the darkest day and why he did what he did.
@@giboit.
You're right. Personnaly, I think his plans make kinda sense. The main thing I have a problem with is it's motivations. Why doing this ? Why now ? Why hiding it ?
The idea is good but the presentation isn't really clear.
IMO, with a few minor changes, they could have make it more logical. Here is my take on it :
First, let the 1000 thousands years in the future thing down, it doesn't makes sense.
Second, make Rose a bit older like 60-70 years old. Don't change his backstory, he is still the big business man of Galar who love and improved the region.
Third, his motivation. As he got older, he realises there would be problem to solve in the future and he won't be here to help. He doesn't have much time, so has a final gift to the region, he decides to give them an infinite source of clean energy. That way, his name will stay in history and assure eternal prosperity to Galar. He spent multiple years collcting all the info he could about the legend, and then he launches his plan wihout much changes. He keeps it a secret, as the big surprise he wants to announce at the most watched event of Galar. As you try to stop him, he argues that the price is worth it, for the future, and stopping it now will make it iimpossible to start again. You finally beat him and he understand the gravity of the situation. That's all !
I think that makes his actions more understandable and even less evil than they are originally.
@@maitremaitre9283
But his motivations are clear. He wants to ensure the future of the Galar region. And Rose literally openly talks about this plan with Bede in front of you, the player, and even gives you explanation about it afterwards:
Quotes from Rose and Bede:
Bede:" If I gather enough wishing stars, that´ll help you to solve the problem that has been bothering you, right Mr. Chairman? "
Rose: "Oh, it´s not just about me. It´s for the future of the whole Galar region. And we´ll need more than just wishing stars. We´ll need a powerful pokemon trainer too. Someone like the champion."
Bede: "With all due respect sir, I was able to show Hop, one of the champion endorsed trainers just how outclassed he was. I´m sure I´ll be able to defeat the champion. No, I WILL defeat the champion."
Rose: "That´s the spirit. It takes healthy competition to really keep the gym challenge energized". Then Oleana interrupts to talk to Bede and this is when Bede learns from Oleana about the wishing stars near the mural and ask her to lend Rose´s Copperajah (without her knowing his intentions and making Rose disappointment in his actions even worse for using HIS pokemon to do it).
And after this Rose personally gives you, the player, literally an entire explanation about why the wishing stars are so important in Galar, explaining how the energy from the wishing stars is transformed and used literally for everything in the region (and this was what helped him to turn the region into a metropolis in a really short period of time. Around 20 years ago by the way). That´s how useful the wishing stars are. And after this, he even suggest you to go check the Hammerlocke Vault, where the ancient tapestries with the (incomplete/inaccurate) version of the legend about the darkest day (the one that he is using for his plan).
As I mentioned, Bede was Rose´s plan B in case the Leon refused to take part on the plan. But he cut his connection with Bede after what happened with the mural. Making even more vital for Leon to take part on the plan, specially after the experiments made to awake Eternatus that made it even harder to contain (as I previously mentioned) and this is why the plan couldn´t be delayed . Which is also why (with Oleana´s help) they prepared the ambush to Leon to have the last attempt to convince him to participate in the plan. And when this last attempt failed, he also got dissapointed with Leon (just like he did with Bede) but he still needed his help so he let the darkest day happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore,
The story actually gives you many scenes explaining the importance of the wishing stars, the importance of Leon, the legend of galar (along with it´s inconsistencies), about Rose´s plan and about the darkest day in general.
Maxie wears a long coat BECAUSE he wants to be warmer. He's cold, even in the semi-tropical Hoenn region. Relatable goals.
I would have put Team Cipher in A or S Tier precisely because they were able to successfully corrupt Legendary Pokemon and the fact that they were the first villainous Team to not stick to a specific theme of Pokemon. Plus, each of it's higher ranked members in the first game(haven't played Gale of Darkness) played a key role in Team Cipher's Shadow Pokemon operation.
Things you forgot: ONE OF THE ELITE FOUR OF KALOS IS A TEAM FLARE MEMBER? And they did *nothing* with it. The second-highest in the overall gym challenge any evil team has reached, and she was only a reporter. That’s it. It feels like it was tossed in as a joke or something!
Keep telling those aqua grunts we are better but they never believe me.
I was a freshman in college when Team Skull was revealed as the villians of that game, and my first thought was “why does it seem like they’re drop them most fire rap in Pokémon history?” And I wanted Guzma to drop a diss track against the professor.
You had me until I realized how high Galactic would be
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Pokémon villains have been in such decline since gen 5. So much so that, in conjunction with the absents of an actual rivalry with your "rivals", I now wish "I" can be the antagonist, just to reintroduce actual conflict into the story.
If I could write the story for a Pokémon game, The player would be facing off against someone like Grand Admiral Thrawn from "Star Wars", with an entire regiment of at least semi-competent trainers who DON'T just use basic 1st route Pokémon, but balanced rosters. With a goal of conquest of the region (as the end of the world being brought on by a legendary Pokémon has been so over done since Gen 3, it's frankly BORING now!).
Pokémon Conquest is right there.
Just play it if you want to play PokéWar.
@@SodaPopBarbecue I love that game. I want a remake, sequel, or even an anime series based on it similar to Origins or Generations.
pity really, team dim Sun had a lot going for them and may have been the A tier here, they had corporate amounts of power, their scheme to mind control pokemon was a complete success, up until they decided to go over the safety limits and clearly despite them obviously hiring from the home for the critically attention deficient, they achieved just about everything they wanted while within yelling distance of the ranger union.
My knowledge stopped at x and y and oras so I don't know about the later ones but my list would be this in terms of power or influence.
Not counting rainbow rocket. But it did succeed in its multi world I guess.
Plasma would be at the top since they actually managed to complete thier goals and n became champion as well as abuse Pokemon and use people's emotions against them. It's honestly brilliant how evil two face they were and still going in the sequel compared to team rocket who became a shell of thier former selves.
Galactic after that. Plan nearly succeeds at the end in platinum and you see the steps they take to influence thier soldiers in the meetings plus nearly destorying the world.
Team flare I can't remember what they did. Guess one of the members was an elite four so they had influence and destroyed a city.
Magma and aqua released the two creatures to battle needing the main raquaza to stop it would have ended things but they didn't do much before and after.
Rocket actually k1lled Pokemon and took over towns and a gym but they easily fizzled out after thier leader lost showing how fast they crumbled especially in silver and gold where they are just petty criminals begging thier leader to return taking over a radio station for crying out loud.
You haven't missed much since. Team Skull was discount Eminem wannabes, and Team Yell was just a bunch of ineffectual Fanboys. Long-gone are the days of fighting madmen trying to play God, or even a thin semblance of intimidation.
@@A88mph well the later games are more for children so it's probably that with later bosses.
Also wondering if she will include spin off bosses like from the shadow Lugia game
@@ivanbluecool those were the only spin-offs to make the list. Nothing from the Ranger or Mystery Dungeon series was counted.
@@HenshinFanatic oh ok. I'll watch the whole video later.
@@A88mph Team skull wasn't the main focus of the story, they're a cog wheel to aether, then depending on the game, it will lead to necrozma.
"Aether's crimes tell and don't show"
MINUS THE FROZEN POKEMON HELLO?!
Funny you mention the Star Wars Holiday Special because I watched RiffTarx's rift of that movie this weekend.
The Pokemon Special/Adventures manga is top tier when it comes to villains. It expands on existing ones like Giovanni, Maxie and Archie, adds original ones (either turning some Gym Leaders/Elite 4 members into villains or making completely new characters), and even makes some of the more underwhelming villains amazing. Like, Team Flare goes CRAZY there (and it's because of it that I can actually remember the names of all five scientists), Lusamine is a perfect blend of her two versions from the games, and it took Rose, Sordward and Shielbert, the three PATHETIC excuses for villains from Galar, teamed them up together and turned them into actual menacing antagonists!
Team Magma had one good thing I like.
It was that Courtney in Pokemon Generations was a Yandere girl and I love it.
Ok. She clearly watches Chuggaaconroy. Not only did she mention him by name, the “Hillary Duff on a Stick” line is a *really* old reference.
I have an idea for your husband's (or if Josh is reading this first, your) bosses list: Top 10 Puppet Bosses, or to avoid confusion, Top 10 Possessed Bosses. Bosses controlled by an outside force or where the bosses movements are beyond their control.
Can you please go into more detail about the evil team leaders one day? There's quite a bit of depth to them than what this video implies, mainly for N, Lysander, Lusamine, Guzma...And especially that disgusting monster Ghetsis.
Seriously, he had the nerve to call Giovanni evil? When he's done WORSE? At least Giovanni's able to be seen a terrible dad and has SOME morals, dammit! Ghetsis is far, FAR worse, in my opinion!
Flare's thing was more "culling a vast number of people and Pokemon to preserve the world's resources," and only the grunts are particularly obsessed with fashion. (But I guess they wanted to hide things somewhat with them about the whole genocide thing?)
They had some interesting elements tho, they're basically a genocidal secret police with one of their own being a member of the Kalos E4 and a newscaster. Malva keeps all of Kalos in the dark, up to its strongest Trainers. But they also listen in on Holocaster conversations, have some implied plainclothes agents, and are an extremely wealthy organization on top of that. Their leader is also related to an ancient king and is good friends with the Professor. The issue is they don't build on any of these nearly as much as they should have.
And from what we gather with him, Lysandre was a philanthropist who tried bettering the world with his inventions, but failed to make any lasting impact, mentally cracked at some point before the story, and the rest is history.
I'm not sure if the Lysandre part was caught up as a joke, but I think you kinda missed the point of Lysandre's motivations. Basically he's saying the world is becoming uglier due to the way people treat each other over resources. He even asked whether or not you or your rival had to fight over the mega ring, or if you both were able to compromise from it. He feels that people are becoming too violent and ravenous over thoughts, actions, and resources of other people and feel like people would only fight and war more and more overtime over these resources. It's not as great as Team Plasma, but I do think this motivation is much more interesting than you give it credit for.
granted Lysandre's views of how greedy people are is made more questionable by the fact he seems to think people spending unreasianble amounts of money to join team flare is proof of their worthiness
Team Skull is my favorite villain team, I like what they were going for here, the dejected members of Alolan society, how no one takes them seriously in-story, Guzma being the best boss.
MD Team Skull? I find it terrible. The storylines involving them are so contrived, frustrating, go nowhere, and you never even get to fight that Skuntank.
I agree with all of this
Honestly MD team skull should have been in the game more I think. If they grew as characters after the main story instead of disappearing/dying in that cave. It would have been cool to have them as rivals instead of villains after that.
Love Team Skull and Guzma (yes, I’m a hopeless fan girl, fight me) but the fact that you mentioned Urinetown? It made me so happy! That was the first major musical that I was ever in. My high school did it during my freshman year! I was just one of the rebels and a backup singer during the cop bit. My dad compared it to the founding of the Soviet Union
Galactic, Plasma, OG Rocket, and Skull are my favs.
I have a soft spot for Magma and Aqua.
Neo/Rainbow Rocket, Flare, and Yell can go eat a heavy bowlful of sand.
Rainbow Rocket was comprised of versions of the leaders if they had WON. They came from universes where the PC either failed to stop them or they never faced them, leaving their teams completely unopposed.
Just to drive it home, here's the rub. Giovanni managed to take over the world unopposed by perennial badass Red, Archie and Maxie managed to turn their own versions of Hoenn into a waterworld or a dried out husk, Cyrus wiped out his universe and remade it in his image, Ghetisis managed to separate people and Pokemon, leaving him the SOLE Trainer in Unova, and Lysandre managed to blow up Kalos.
To add further insult, these versions not only defeated the PC but they overwhelmed the Gym Leaders, the Elite Fours, and the Champions of their respective regions.
So I wouldn't be knocking them that hard if I were you.
@@25Erix It's such an idealistic recreation of the team given that distinction and hardly has the mold of consistency besides their tacky new getup. Facing facts here that Cyrus, Ghetsis, Maxie, and Archie are quite different people it never made sense to me for each to follow Giovanni in this merger. All of them now no longer hold the same fear impression that they should have as the boss of their respective teams.
I can get behind dark and gritty reboot vibes. But that's about it. We're well past the days of just having an intimidating mafia organization in Pokemon, and that's it. It's world-shifting crises or bust these days.
@@runningoncylinders3829 I mean, they were all basically kidnapped by Giovanni, and wanted to further their goals across the multiverse. And Ghetsis was literally planning to do the same thing he did with N with Giovanni. So they have their reasons to "follow" Giovanni.
All hail Ari, the queen of pokemon!!
And this is when someone links the pokemon villain rap cipher
Cypher would've been PERFECT villains if they had wrecked actual destruction. You had so many Legends and a completely modified Lugia, why you leave everything outside of your island intact?
Chairman rose: I wanna bring about the darkest day to stop a future energy crisis
Me: *glances nervously at Electivire's pokedex entries that state that just one can power an entire city for over a year all on it's own (so think Jublife city as an example)*
The issue with that is that the dynamax energy pretty much can be used in every imaginable field.
holy hell the passion the emotion the expresivness girl you nailed this video holy heck.
Hilary Duff on a stick...
Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time...props to Aramau for pulling out the deep cuts.
What makes Ghetsis's theme so great is the fact that it mostly contains percussion instruments. Much like Arceus's theme from Diamond and Pearl. This shows us how much of a God Complex this green haired ass wipe really has.
Alright. I think I might need to briefly step in and explain some things from the Team Flare section.
1. The reason why they did this is because that Lysander say the world as corrupted and not perfect and wanted to create a better world and would kill so many people to make his dream come true using the Ultimate Weapon created by AZ 3,000 years ago back when a great war happened in Kalos. Which brings me to my second point.
2. The stones are actually gravestones for the Pokemon that died in the war 3,000 years ago. And if I remember correctly, Lysander is using the energy or something (I would have to look back on everything from the games to confirm) to help power the Ultimate Weapon but also using the power from Xerneas or Yeveltal.
Bonus 3. Now this isn't from the games and is part of the Anime, but my goodness was his plan in the anime something else and literally almost worked completely. It was a different concept from the games and literally took over all of Lumiose City, controlled one of the Zygarde Cores and at one point, both of them, and then had a massive stone machine that looked like Zygarde 50% and destroy the beautiful sundial. This arc was one of the coolest things to see and having so many people fight back and even having Bonnie play a bigger role in it was cool. The battles were intense and even seeing all of the gym leaders, Steven Stone, Cynthia, and I think even the Elite 4 and possibly more as I never fully watched any episode of the arc but only small snipits, all come together to fight back was just amazing.
the team flare arc at the end of xy anime makes me so sad, they should have done it so differently
Caught off guard with the mention of Mystery Dungeon, and then sad when you couldn’t talk about it
I always thought they used the opposite colour orbs on Groudon and Kyorge because of the blue and red veins they have have their bodies respectively
WAS THAT A CHUGGAACONROY REF?!
An couple examples of the Dark experiments of the foundation in Sun and Moon are Zygarde and especially: Type NULL. That pokemon was created by them experimenting with DNA, and just LOOK at it to tell what horrible shit they did to it.
Zygarde wasn't their experiment though?
@@DarthMolgy he is hinted at being one indirectly, after all SOMETHING or SOMEBODY had to design that pokemon I believe, at the least Type:NULL is definitely some kind of twisted amalgamation of Pokemon genetics. And the head wear is more than a torture device it's an inhibitor to prevent it from running wild because it can't initially control it's power.
@@AlphaWolf-is8zg Type: Null is obviously an experiment, but Zygarde is a natural entity just like Xerneas and Yveltal, and has NOTHING to do with the Aether foundation. It only came to Alola due to the upcoming UB invasion.
@@DarthMolgy hmmm...I just remember a scientist needing your help to regather Zygarde's cells and rebuild it. Which suggests something did something horrible to him. The only faction that might've broke it down is Aether.
so aramau was a hisui zoroark the whole time, Firebrand marrying a Pokémon is now confirmed
I would have loved to see the segment on the mystery dungeon team skull
Honestly i was have a riot every time team skull was on screen
I agree with team magmas rank. Especially with the fan fic what if story based in their goal. That story is really good of what if the protagonist failed to stop team magma.
While it’s one character and not a team, I wonder how Dusknoir from PMD; EoS would have factored into this ranking.
On a side note, hearing “for the love of Hilary Duff on a stick” filled me with so much nostalgia for Chugga’s early videos
Ngl I wanted throw hands with Lusamine when I played Moon and I would still happily do so because she's terrible and Lily and her brother deserve better
Alright, let's see how I feel about your rankings:
F Tier: I honestly have no arguments for who is here, but rather who isn't. While I agree that both of Galar's... um... "evil teams" should be here at the bottom, I also think that Team "Neo" Rocket should be down here, as in separate Kanto's Team Rocket from Johto's Team Rocket. Their "grand scheme" was to take over a radio tower to bring their old leader back. I don't remember who made this comparison, but to semi quote it, "Imagine if Team Rocket was a chicken, and Giovanni was the head of that chicken. Now imagine the chicken's head was cut off and the body is now running around on its own, confused and making a mess everywhere". That to me is Johto's Team Rocket. Also I forgot that Rose's goons even had a team name. Honestly Rose himself was just wasted potential as a villain, in a game where... well, a villainous team wasn't really needed.
D Tier: I barely remember Team Snagem all that well as well as Cipher, (with the exception of the magnificent specimen that is Mirror B.), so when they show up I'll ignore them. In the fairness for what I said for Team Rocket, I'll accept dividing Plasma into two as well. Neo Team Plasma is weird, because I feel that they should be higher than D but lower than C if that makes sense. Ghetsis basically being like "SCREW THIS SHIZ WE BE TERRORISTS NOW" is frightening in its own way. Plus he is torturing Kyurem to do his bidding and wants to personally kill you again. Honestly has far as Neo Plasma goes, Ghetsis and Colress carry the Team. As for Team Skull... I love the little shits. Yeah, their best thing was stealing a bus stop, but they are great. Guzma and Plumeria are memorable to me as well and carry the Team. Also, as Fawful's Minion pointed out, all of the Skull Grunts are failed Pokemon Trainers, which is why their Pokemon are so few and so weak; they are all they have. (Also I love Mystery Dungeon Team Skull.) As for the who isn't here portion, well, as much as I want to put them in F Tier, I would put Team Flair here. The main reason being that the only memorable thing about them are Lysandere and his questionable goals and motives. And I guess that they had an Elite Four Member as a member of the Team. Honestly I always just saw Team Flare as a discount Team Galactic. Like Lysandere forgot to do his homework so Cyrus said "Here, copy my answers", except Cyrus gave Lysandere his first draft as opposed to the final project. I'm sure Team Flare has more explained motives somewhere, but I never really found them. Also, Lysandere's motivations make no sense to me in Pokemon X. I kind of get it for Y, he wants to commit mass genocide for... I think resources or something. But X is pretty much "I will force myself to be immortal because... reasons."
C Tier: OG Team Rocket being here fits to me. Just the standard mafia who want money and powerful Pokemon. Very simple and efficient. Hmm... I usually group Magma and Aqua together. I'm surprised that you put Aqua here alone. Their plans (Aqua and Magma) are very same-y. Climate change for the world. And... well Sunny Day and Rain Dance exist. But due to the charisma of both Teams, I get why they'd be here. Now for the Aether Foundation... I know this is going to sound weird... but I don't see them as a villainous team. I see Lusamine and Faba as bad people, but not the generic Aether workers. I feel like they were just following Lucy's orders because she is their boss and they genuinely thought they were doing some good. If I had it my way, Aether and Skull would be swapped around, but it is your list and not mine, so... yeah. And yeah, Lusamine's USUM incarnation was hecka nerfed. Would have been cool to see regular Lucy get to develop after the events of the game and patch things up with her kids. And I already talked about Flare in the D tier review, so I don't think I need to repeat myself.
B Tier: Like I said before, Magma and Aqua always felt interchangeable to me. While I agree that I think Maxie would probably do a better job running this plan than Archie, Magma and Aqua just repeat the same beats.
A Tier: Nothing here, so... Okay, well, I will say that Galactic would have been placed here if not for my recent replay of Pokemon Platinum.
S Tier: Yeah, these two Teams are the cream of the crop. The Grunts of Galactic are hilariously bad tho. Cyrus's back must really hurt from carrying his team. Wanting to destroy absolutely everything? Yeah, one scary mf, made scarier in Platinum I'd say. I'd say Team Plasma is the GOAT, but Gen 5 is my favorite. And, believe it or not, I 100% AGREE with N being a Team Leader over a rival. But... I do think you are kinda sleeping on what Ghetsis did though. I mean, yeah, Cyrus wanted to destroy everything, but like Ghetsis said, "What is there to gain from getting rid of such useful things as Pokemon?". He was the perfect "behind the scenes" kind of guy, manipulating the masses of NPCs, his own grunts, and even N HIMSELF. Does he seem cartoony and corny at the end? Well, yeah, but keep in mind by that point, you the player are literally undoing this whole plan that Ghetsis has been working on for YEARS. Yes, years, remember he had been grooming N for this moment since N was a child. And in both games, Ghetsis wants you DEAD. Yeah, other team leaders want to destroy stuff, but Ghetsis to me was the one guy who wanted to kill you personally, which made things feel, well, personal. And his Pokemon Team was the stuff of nightmares. And, as many people have pointed out, Ghetsis's team perfectly countered N's, which implies that Ghetsis probably planned to betray N at some point. Cyrus might be the most dangerous Team Leader, but Ghetsis to me was definitely the most evil. I could probably see him getting along with SM Lusamine.
Interesting thing to note about Ghetsis being the most evil, there's a secret hidden in the games files, basically, Ghetsis' Hydriegon has the lowest possible friendship level, he's the only Team Leader who has this, and there's actually a reason for it, his Hydriegon has the move Frustration, which becomes more powerful the lower a Pokemon's friendship level is, which means Ghetsis intentionally made his Hydriegon hate him to use the move at full strength
No other Team Leader is anywhere near as evil as Ghetsis, which makes his Battle Theme all the more appropriate :D
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO REMEBERS POKEMON GALE OF DARKNESS!
I wanna see Ari rank each gen’s box legendaries. So Gen 1 would be: the 3 birds and Mewtwo (since they didn’t have box legendaries), Gen 2 is Ho-Oh and Lugia, Gen 3 would be Groundon and Kyogre, Gen 4 is Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, Gen 5: Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyruem, Gen 6: Xernes and Yveltal (and if you wanna include Zygarde too), Gen 7: Solgaleo and Lunala, and Gen 8 is Zacian and Zamazenta
I have a bias... Massive Nostalgia Bias... and say Aqua is the best team, for no reason other than Ruby was my first game, being sided with an evil team was awesome, and I thought Archie was cool. Look, these weird pirate dudes came up to me in Meteor Falls, beat up Magma showed me a clip of Rosco Mcqueen saying "Water!" on their Porygon Phone and left, and I've been a member ever since.
But for real, I think the main problem with, well, all villain teams is that the most unique they've gotten with them is with Skull and Yell, who aren't really a major threat. Every villain team is just "Here's boxart pokemon, we'll use it to end world" and it's very stale. Just need a little more.. oomph, something different. That being said, I don't really have a problem with it, but I know people do care, so if you want my two cents, we just need a more unique goal or twist. Maybe the evil team is developed by YOUR actions causing someone to finally snap, or maybe they're trying to stop the boxart pokemon; maybe they're genuinely good people with a good cause going about their actions completely wrong.
(Ok, will say real quick, completely forgot how effective Plasma was. Then again, I've replayed White and Black 2 how many times, and I still barely remember Juniper and Musharna was from this game? I can never remember any about Gen 5 for some reason)
Just realized this was uploaded on my Bday. Neat.
Sun and moon remakes better have a 3 wave boss fight in the finale w/ lusamine where she fights you with her normal, aura boosted team. Then calls for nihilego and fights you using the Pokémon, and afterwards fuses WITH nihilego and you fight her in a Noble Pokemon style battle, that would be SO cool & actually feel threatening + add no healing and bam we got a fearsome person who’s dangerous
and if y’all say it’s crazy remember volo had a 3 wave boss fight so anything’s possible at this point lmao
Regieleki destroyed any possible good point of Rose being a villain
Being honest, I love Team skull as an idea, like, the idea of people who are left out by society getting all together to form some kind of brotherhood to protect themselves, it's quite a potent idea. Also, the fact that Guzma is the leader is a great thing, because he is someone who would be all for that idea, knowing he comes from an abusive father (I mean, we see bent and broken golf clubs at the house of his parents, and those don't break that easily.). Of course him of all people would create a team just for misfits that don't have anywhere to go, acting like some kind of replacement family in an island that didn't do anything when they were the ones hurting. Like, the team is not a good evil team by any means, but as a concept and execution, I find them to be quite good, like, they aren't even evil, just misguided, doing nothing more than petty crimes, yet surprisingly being able to take over a city (that one really surprises me), which later falls into ruin, which is almost poetic, children of a broken home living in a ruined city, their ruined home, all alone.
Honestly, other than you underselling Lysandre and Ghetsis(There is more to Lysandre than you gave him credit for, and Ghetsis is SO MUCH MORE than just another “Take over the world” villain…He’s also a master manipulator, and part of why N worked as well as he did), this was a very good list. But goddamn, you did NOT give Ghetsis enough credit as a villain.
As someone who lives in Vancouver I can assure you that perpetual rain is pretty bad
Plazma is easily one of the interesting evil teams because they're kinda realistic the whole team has a cultish feeling with the grunts blindingly following seemingly benevolent goals but Ghetsis knows how to manipulate that and one could even make a comparison to a certain real life organization that says it helps animals but actually puts down a lot of the animals it recovers and some of them were legitimate pets living happily with kind owners and giving their donations to actual criminals all while disguised as a ethical organization.
Honestly very disappointed Team Sky was not included on this list 😔
Oh , i wanted to hear your opinion on the explorer games .
Personally i really like them .
Even though i never finished explorers of time because i keep loosing to Dialga , over and over again.
I didn't know you were a ghost normal type ari!
Lusamine was the only villain in pokémon that made me feel real fear. That woman moves something in me that not any other game could before.
Maybe it's that her brand of evil hits closer to home. Lusamine's abuse of her children and high position are things that occur in our own world, making it a plot harder to detach from compared to other villains.
The best thing about Macro Cosmos is their logo