Here’s the list of products reviewed. More details in the video description. Thank you! Foxwell BT705 Battery Tester: amzn.to/45nu6TQ Desulfator: amzn.to/41G5aVC Battery Post Cleaning Brush: amzn.to/3ndREt8 Epsom Salt: amzn.to/442oBtl Stick 225 Inverter Welder is Available at Harbor Freight.
I'd like to see various types of "weird" electrolyte solutions. From things like Pedialyte (which I'm guessing sugars and the like would not fair well) Disolved electrolyte tablets, and urea. Also compared to actual "battery acids" generally available online.
Lol, I buy tools based off Terry’s reviews, I also brought some fellow tradesmen to this channel. There has been lots of Job site conversations regarding the Project Channel.
@@HariSeldon913 those are lithium ion so it's a completely different process and chemistry. And the older ones were Ni-Cd. I can't remember the last time I saw lead-acid power tools.
I've seen this done before a bunch of times but... for you? I'll watch again. No one is as thorough with this type of research. Always a pleasure and always come away with new knowledge.
PPE is definitely important when working with batteries. Early this spring, I popped the cap off a car battery and managed to splash a drop of acid in my eye. I ran to the hose to begin flushing, and the ice cold water felt wonderful. What didn't feel wonderful was when the ice inside the hose broke loose and blasted me right in the eye! Fortunately, no long-term damage was done.
you forgot to mention the dry sense of humour :-) Cousin Eddy always wants something! lol One of my fave vids was driving back and forth many many times on a lawnmower towing varying weights. They were shot from afar and edited consistently so was really effective at showing poor old project farm working 96 hours a day to make sure the test was thorough.
I would’ve love to see you do a comparison of fuses. From Chinese 10 cents/fuse from the gas station to all the way to Bussman fuses. The amperage they can handle compared to their rating on an average of 3 fuses. Fitment and ease of pulling from a socket and a few more ideas!
that sounds like the makings for a Project Farm Movie given how much testing that would need, but I'm not opposed to sitting here and watching an hour and a half of fuse testing and popping.
I like this idea too. I want to know if a cheap Chinese fuse blows at 6A instead of 5A or if it just randomly blows whenever the hell it feels like it. If it says 5A, can it do 4A continuously or is it always slowly blowing?
@@shawn576 my understanding is that the fuse is designed to blow at that set amperage. Regardless of how close it is. There is a video someone on UA-cam of someone testing a 20 or 25 amp fuse and having it hold nearly 100 amps before popping
I had a battery for 9 years by using high amp charger and basically cycling thru as you have done here every 2 years. Only reason it stopped at 9 years was because I sold the car. It works if you stay on top of it and just consider it part of the maintenance cycle of your car. Great video.
@@marcelo403polo2 Most batteries have a "free replacement" warranty and no pro-rated warranty beyond that. I remember when the warranty was 80-90 months with a 1,2,3, or 4 year free replacement period. I have heard the only difference between the cheap batteries and the more expensive batteries is the distance from the lead plate grid to the bottom of the battery.
Funny we've been taught our whole life that trickle-charging is how you maintenance a battery not high voltage And in case you didn't know these brand new cars actually have a variable regulator on their alternator so as the battery and alternator gets weaker it starts pulling more electricity from it Which is why you have to reset the computer if you touch the battery on a newer car
Thank you Todd, you're one of the few treasures of UA-cam. In this video, I didn't see a *comparison summary* so I've created one for you: 1. *Stick Welder Technique:* - *Battery #1 (Duralast, ~12 years old, 825 CCA, 660 CCA):* - *Initial State:* 204 cranking amps (CA), specific gravity below 1.2, internal resistance 19.05 milliohms, recommended replacement. - *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 70-85 amps with cooling periods in between. - *Result:* Cranking amps improved to 446, specific gravity improved in all cells, SOH increased from 21% to 46%, internal resistance reduced to 9.01 milliohms.
- *Battery #4 (Ford Ranger, 10 years old, badly sulfated, come in at 2nd Place):* - *Initial State:* 7.3 volts, badly sulfated, wouldn’t hold charge. - *Process:* Six welding cycles, followed by manual charging overnight. - *Result:* Improved to 424 cranking amps, SOH at 46%, internal resistance 9.47 milliohms. - *Battery 5 (AutoCraft, 4 years old, comes in at 1st Place)* - *Initial State:* 62 cranking amps, SOH 6%, internal resistance 62.5 milliohms. - *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 100 amps with cooling periods. - *Result:* Improved to 961 cranking amps, SOH increased to 6% to 81%, internal resistance reduced to 4.26 milliohms. 2. *Epsom Salt Method:* - *Battery 3 (8 years old):* - *Initial State:* 599 cranking amps, SOH 50%, internal resistance 6.79 milliohms. - *Process:* Neutralized acid with baking soda, added Epsom salt solution, charged overnight, and applied six welding cycles. - *Result:* Voltage dropped to 11.21 volts, cranking amps reduced to 51, internal resistance increased to 74.4 milliohms. - Battery made worse - 3. *Desulfator Device:* - *Battery 2 (12 years old):* - *Initial State:* 714 cranking amps, SOH 61%, internal resistance 5.72 milliohms. - *Process:* Applied a two-amp pulse through the battery. - *Result:* After a week, minimal improvement. Cranking amps at 613, internal resistance at 6.63 milliohms. - NO Benefit -
muchas gracias, tengo una pregunta, después de cada ciclo del soldador ¿se debe descargar la batería? y si es así ¿cómo se descarga? (sin tener que usarla)
@@AlbertoHeNa7734 - No, there is no need to discharge. After each cycle, the battery's State-of-Charge (SoC) will be fairly low and each time it should improve but will never become fully charged from these steps. Most of the power is dissipated in heat, rather than charging the battery. I hope that helps!
Of all my subscriptions, this is the one I look forward to the most. It amazes me how you think of how to test these different products. Thanks for all of your hard work and keep it up!
I was really surprised how the DC welder was able to repair a battery. I am wondering how long the fix will last and hoping you will make a follow-up video when the batteries start to fail again.
@@gordonwedman3179 it should last long. The reason the cell was damaged is due to a short between the plates in the cell. By using the welder with high current it'll melt off the shorted pieces. The main reason these batteries lose performance is due to sulfate build up on the plates. By removing the short using the welder, you're left with the sulfate build up which could be bad or not too bad. I.e a sulfated battery that has a shorted cell can possibly be improved using a welder to remove the short, but you're still left with the sulfate buildup
@mennims the biggest killer of batteries is short cycles. Should be 30 minutes running or battery never really fully charges. Especially in colder climates.
Would be interesting to see if draining them and then refilling with either 1) distilled water & 2) sulphuric acid after the welder treatment also provides an additional uptick in performance as all the crude in the bottom would be removed
For those interested, when the hydrometer takes a fluid sample right after the welder, you can see the loose sulfates causing the fluid to be brown. Over time through normal use those sulfates settle to the bottom and build up. There is empty space in the bottom of the battery for all of the accumulated material that is no longer participating in the chemical reactions. Deep cycle batteries have more empty space in the bottom. When enough piles up it can touch the plates and short them out causing that cell to stop working.
A lead battery should never be left discharged which causes rapid sulfation. Also, it can freeze and bust when discharged. Lead wants to be fully charged unlike lithium which is happy around half charged. Every day a lithium is at full charge it's life is shortened. Even stopping the charge at 4.10 instead of 4.20 per cell can increase the lifespan as much as 4 times.
So rinsing and flushing the battery could extend it's life dramatically? When I do this on a 200amp charger I've had a couple batterys that have a dead cell that will come back around but usually only temporary. I have tons of cars so never enough batteries. Do you think building a setup to safely flush and maybe filter the electrolyte would save some dead cell batteries?
@@jasonbirch1182 I wouldn't say dramatically, but yes professional battery recyclers/refurbishers do flush out the batteries as well as high amp charging/reconditioning. Battery refurbishing used to be more common than it is now due to manufacturing scale and consumerism. Modern batteries use much thinner plates to both be cheaper and to fit more in, which makes them harder to refurbish. I believe there is a way to filter and clean the old battery acid too. However the problem is there are many different ways a battery can fail or go bad. Every time you charge and discharge, lead is transferred from one plate to the other. That means the plates are constantly changing shape. It might only be slightly but it adds up over time. Also the sulfates in the bottom contain lead that didn't make it all the way across or didn't stick very well, so the plates are constantly getting thinner and smaller meaning less surface area. When the battery is charged there's a higher concentration of acid so it's harder for the water to freeze. When the battery is dead the concentration is lower so it's easier to freeze which will also misshapen the plates or potentially crack the plastic. There's also a separator membrane or mesh between the plates that could deteriorate or get contaminated. Finally the plates are tightly packed in there, closer than you think, so it'll take a lot of agitation to flush between them, and multiple flushes to get everything from the bottom out. So it ends up being a lot of work for no guaranteed results. It'd almost be easier to open the battery up and wipe the plates off but at that point it's just a bit more work to melt the lead down, roll it into sheet, and cut new plates from the sheet.
@@jasonbirch1182 But also when you do flush it, you refill it with fresh 50-50 acid water mix and so having fresh fluids at the proper concentration could potentially help too. Many people, myself included, commented on this video that after he flushed it out with Epsom salt he had to flush the salt out then refill with fresh acid. But he either didn't know, forgot, or maybe didn't have any fresh acid
The key to fixing a bad battery is by picking up a box of acid at Oreilly's for $10 and draining the old acid out. Then use 3 jugs of distilled water for cleaning the battery. Each time the battery is filled with the water, replace the caps and shake the battery vigorously for several minutes. Dump the water and repeat till the fluid coming out of the battery is clear. Then add the new battery acid and charge. This method restores a battery to 100% nine times out of ten. Great video by the way.
This was a fascinating test. If you still have the battery that was treated with Epsom salts... Flush it one more time with distilled water, than REFILL IT WITH BATTERY ACID. Put it through a thorough, long, slow charge - and retest it. The Epsom salts might have cleaned up the plates, but lead-acid batteries need acid to work properly.
@the upscriber with sulfuric acid it creates a process that is chemically reversible. When discharging the lead combines with the acid to create lead oxide which is deposited on the other set of plates, when charging the opposite happens.
@@theupscriber65 Ask ChatGPT nobody on youtube comments has the time: Certainly! A lead-acid battery is a type of rechargeable battery commonly used in vehicles, uninterruptible power supplies (UPS), and other applications. The chemistry behind a lead-acid battery involves the interaction between lead and lead dioxide electrodes, sulfuric acid (H2SO4) electrolyte, and the production of electrical energy. In a lead-acid battery, each cell consists of two electrodes: a lead dioxide (PbO2) positive electrode and a lead (Pb) negative electrode. These electrodes are immersed in a diluted sulfuric acid solution, typically with a concentration of around 30-40%. The sulfuric acid acts as the electrolyte, providing ions for the electrochemical reactions to occur. During the discharge process, the lead dioxide electrode reacts with the sulfuric acid, producing lead sulfate (PbSO4), while the lead electrode reacts with sulfuric acid to form lead sulfate as well. The overall reaction can be represented as follows: Positive electrode: PbO2 + H2SO4 + 2H+ + 2e- → PbSO4 + 2H2O Negative electrode: Pb + H2SO4 → PbSO4 + 2H+ + 2e- As lead sulfate is formed on both electrodes, the concentration of sulfuric acid decreases. This leads to a decrease in the voltage of the battery and ultimately its capacity to deliver electrical energy. When a lead-acid battery is recharged, the electrochemical reactions are reversed. Applying an external electrical current to the battery causes the lead sulfate to break down into lead and lead dioxide, and the sulfuric acid concentration is replenished. This process allows the battery to be reused multiple times. Now, to address your question about the use of acid instead of salt water in a lead-acid battery, it comes down to the specific chemistry and the requirements for the battery's functioning. While salt water (sodium chloride solution) can conduct electricity to some extent, it does not provide the necessary ions and chemical reactions for the lead-acid battery to work efficiently. The sulfuric acid in a lead-acid battery plays several crucial roles. Firstly, it provides the necessary ions (H+ and SO42-) that participate in the electrochemical reactions at the electrodes. Secondly, it facilitates the formation of lead sulfate on both electrodes during discharge. Finally, during the recharging process, the sulfuric acid allows the lead sulfate to break down, replenishing the acid concentration and restoring the battery's capacity. In summary, the specific chemistry and electrochemical reactions involved in a lead-acid battery necessitate the use of sulfuric acid as the electrolyte rather than salt water. The acid is essential for the functioning, efficiency, and reusability of the battery.
You are a gem, sir. In the 4-5 years of watching your videos, every week it's the same fantastic enthusiasm & energy. Thank you for sharing yourself with us 😊
Todd, thank you for doing this. I have a stack of batteries that I have been saving to try and recover. Regarding the Epsom Salt test, I thought you were supposed to use the Epsom salt solution to clean the lead plates in the battery and then put fresh battery acid back in.
Hey Project Farm. I know you read all the comments so I have to tell you, you saved me $80. My ATV battery was dead and The charger wouldn’t recognize it. I remembered this video and that a high amp shot of DC would make it live again. I jump started the thing just to put some juice into it and the Schumacher charged it to 100% over night. Thanks brother.
Nice change from the regular content. I like the testing of inexpensive home remedies. For example, you covered molasses to remove rust a few years ago. I tried this myself on some large ladder jacks that'd be just too expensive to cover in evapo-rust, but were perfect to put some molasses + water I had lying around in a large bucket and leave it for a week. Worked great, and removed the rust.
I've got to say, I was not expecting you to get to testing this process; good thing that you did. Whenever corrosives are involved, it can NEVER be understated how important it is to have ventilation and full protection, especially considering there is a risk of explosion here. I am encouraged by the results, so if I'm in a rough patch, then I will make use of the welder route either myself or via someone else who has the setup.
the explosion risk is mostly from the fact that those bubbles you see coming from the cells are hydrogen, which is very flammable. I've actually had a battery explode when it was under a cover and being charged, some spark must've formed and absolutely obliterated the battery and thank god I wasn't near that thing. Also since that hydrogen escapes when charging the battery, you should check the level and fill up the cells with distilled water to keep the level above the minimum
I was. Sweet project cars has touted this for awhile, among others. But he's very specific about which welder to use (and kindly provides a link) but the truth is it's part science part magic part luck. One thing is FOR SURE extreme caution must be exercised it's not hard to get hurt if one is not careful. Very careful.
@@LatvianVideo IKR and while a lithium jumper is probably really good insurance, I've watched enough lithium fire videos to not even want to keep one in the trunk near the gas tank, would try to find a place in the engine compartment to secure it. Probably overcautious of me.
Just wanted to say thank you for all of the great content over so many years. Your videos have been immensely helpful over the years and I appreciate it!
I'm glad you included a hydrometer. It will tell you a lot about the condition/health of the batt. Good cell, weak cell or dead cell. As always great video.
Great job testing both the batteries and the different ways of reviving one. I had a battery blow up while using it to test rebuilt starters, it sounded like a cannon went off and covered my legs with battery acid, luckily it was under my bench which gave me some protection but is also probably how the hydrogen gas collected enough that a spark set it off. Ventilation and make sure you don't allow any sparks close to the battery.
I like that we've moved into experimenting! I asked a long time ago for a video comparing the best ways to take out a tree stump, hopefully we could see that this summer 🌞🌞 🌲🌲
Do cost comparisons, including renting a stump grinder. My taco has a trailer hitch so I rented a towable stump grinder. Not only did it make mince meat of some 10 stumps, it was hella fun. Don't forget to include the fun factor.
I watch you because you're a reliable, accurate source and don't waste time; I really like the jump edits. I watch you on 2x speed because you speak clearly and concisely. I spent about 6 minutes here getting a better answer than I would have in 20+ minutes on another video. What amazes me is I just noticed I'm not subscribed. I'll take care of that right now.
I’d love to see a caulk comparison video, especially with mildew resistance tests. Thank you so so much for the work you do and the really innovative ways you test everything.
That could easily be his retirement plan. If he finally agreed to sponsor products, I guarantee you there are companies that would pay him MILLIONS to have his seal of approval.
If theres no white or clear osh looking flatly rolled up stuffs where the water goes or is held in then fhats kind of worrisome for how visible the freely ,oving liquid or otherwise its water is fwiw ykwis
I literally am blown away at this concept... Interesting that only certain batteries can be revived, but the FACT that they can is what really impressed me! Awesome test video!!
The principle is the high voltage of the welder causes the outer layers of the lead plates to melt and shed, thus exposing fresh lead to the acid. Problem is modern batteries are using less and less lead, so it doesn't work as well as it did 'back in the day'.
@@ProjectFarm I wonder if the welder would work on those batteries that wasn't tried on it as a test. The desulfater tested one, zap that one with the welder and see if the results change.
@@LordFalconsword Fascinating! I’ve got numerous welders but never crossed the mental bridge this could be ‘used’ in this fashion without serious risk(s). So creative!
If memory serves, you did a previous test on car batteries, and mentioned that all such batteries are made by only four companies. It would have been interesting to see if the company of manufacture had any impact on battery recovery. Keep up the great work!!
Very good question. Johnson Controls is one of the big battery producers. Something to be aware of, even though a battery company makes several brands, they are made to each designers specifications. Some people believe they are the same with a different sticker on it but this is not the case. Some of the designs are poor, others are great. Food services is another example. People see the same food delivery truck (like Sysco) at a McDonalds, Duncan Donuts, Subway and a steak house believing they start with the same product. They do Not! Each purchases different grades with different price scales and growers... Huge difference.
I can charge a battery to where it is at or above the cranking amps. However, it won't hold a charge for more then a few days. So for me, I just go out and get a new battery. Yes, it cost me $225.00. However, it's worth it to know you don't have to worry about a battery being dead when you need it and if you get 4 years out of it, that's a cheap investment in the "scheme of things" for a piece of mind.
@@trvman1 Keep in mind that driving a car will never completely charge a battery. Test this the next time you end your drive and place a charger on the battery, it will be a period of time before the full charge is complete. Lead-acid batteries love to be held at full charge and will last the longest if kept on a float charge whenever not in use, even overnight. Doing that can extend battery life to several times that of batteries just left to their own fate. Batteries are expensive so I do what I can to extend their life. Each year I take an internal resistance measurement and compare that to previous measurements. A significant increase in resistance warns that a battery is entering into the downward stretch of its life. I have one motorcycle battery still going strong at 14 years old and still testing great, another just replaced with the original lasting 10 years. One car battery that's now 5 years old, another at just about 4 years old. All testing great.
I live in AZ, heat is the biggest killer of batteries around here, they only last 2-3 years unmaintained. I would love to see you test different oil filters. STP, Fram, Purolator ETC. If you could mix some OEM filters as well in there that would be cool.
Rule of thumb is every 10C (18F) you go up in ambient temperature above 25C, the life of the battery is cut in half. This is complicated by placement under the hood, but many cars now have them under the seat or in the trunk in part because the temperature is less variable. But the interior of an AZ car left outside is still probably 30C over design life temperature.
As a guy who hates wasting time and tries to be as efficient as possible, your video's are very satisfying to watch. You say what needs to be say and move on, no wasted air lol
I have a Vdc welder. Never thought of this use. Nice demo. I lost a typical marine 100ah deep cycle battery last year running a medium Vac pump via inverter down to shut off Vdc a few times in a row. Going to try the welder to see what I can do.
Very interesting and finally someone is testing the many suggested solutions out there. Since "open" batteries aren't very common anymore it would be very interesting if those (or other) tests could be repeated with more modern battery styles like maintenance-free batteries, GEL batteries and AGM batteries. Since on all of them no water can be refilled and extensive bubbling (due to charging with too high voltage and amps) will lead to permanent loss of water in the batteries (which mostly leavs the batteries through their safety valves) it would be interesting to see if there is any way to bring also such more modern batteries back to life again besides complete recycling. Besides all that it would be interesting to see a real world performance and durability test of all the lead-based battery technologies out there: - Standard lead acid battery (liquid electrolyte) - VRLA battery (classic maintenance free battery) - GEL battery - AGM battery - pure lead battery (special type of AGM battery) - lead crystal battery (SiO2 battery) - others if they exist...
I’d like to see options or at least attempts to bring back SLA (AGM) batteries. I’ve had good luck with prying off the thin plastic too which exposes the little rubber caps (pressure reliefs). Simply pull the little caps off with needle nose pliers and add a small amount distilled water via syringe. Leave caps off and hit them with some amps for a few quick cycles then a slow charge at 1/10 Capacity overnight.
All the automotive or large garden equipment batteries I see are still open cap. They just make the caps MUCH more flush to hide them, because obviously the inside of the engine compartment must be made beautiful. That reminds me, since my car was totalled, and I pulled the battery, I should open it up and check the electrolyte levels.
Those maintenance free junk is just another topic of 'remove options to repair'. Just glue it shut or glue a cover on and they have no option to fill them back up. Where I was working at a shop, the standard procedure war to all was top of the batteries when a vehicle came in for inspection. But seeing now 2 to 3 year old batteries die due to the missing maintenance option is such a waste of recourses
Your approach and testing methods are awesome to watch, straight to the point, and can save tradesmen and DIYers a lot of wasted effort, time and money. It also resolves a lot of arguments at the pub. I just hope cousin Eddy appreciates the time and effort you put in to getting him a decent battery. New ones are not cheap. Thanks so much for sharing. 😉👌🏻
Absolutely the most valuable time spent on utube is watching these videos. I love the speed of testing and getting right to the point. Keep it up, much appreciated.
@@ProjectFarmso long as you don't say the word battery 89 times in 12 minutes... Lol! I'm sure it was an editing nightmare, but you sure pushed the limit on overemphasis on this one. Great video either way!
That’s so crazy!! I have had the BEST luck with the $20 desulfator. It’s saved my motorcycle battery two years ago after I left the key on for a month. Wouldn’t charge past 12.1v or so until I hit it with the desulfator for a week. I think each battery can fail for different reasons, and each method may work for some, but not all failures. FANTASTIC VIDEO!!!
I do this all the time. I use a old snap on 200 amp charger that produces 16+ volts on boost to boil the battery. It’s before the newer electronic crap that’s sold today. Works great and even though it may not bring it back to new it allows for more usage out of the battery.
If you've got stuff to use them in, it might be interesting to put the restored batteries to use and check in on them in a few months, compared to similar new batteries with comparable use over time. They came back pretty well, but how well will that hold up over time? Regardless, it's impressive work finding ways to get a "dead" battery back, even if it doesn't last very long it could, if nothing else, get you to a store to get a replacement or maybe keep you going to work so you can afford the replacement.
”For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?“ Mark 8:36 NKJV “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”John3:16 NKJV “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”Romans10:9 NKJV
Thanks for posting...the welder is something I never would have tried, but I feel a bit more comfortable after seeing it on a channel I trust. Excellent video, as always.
I am a huge fan! I have watched a lot of these types of tests and yours are undeniably the best I have seen. On battery reconditioning I am always left wondering, after treating the battery with Epsom salts, do you rinse and refill with battery acid? If you could replace sulfuric acid with Epsom salts for normal use, I'm sure the industry would have switched years ago. I found an article that said you can add Epsom salts to get more time from a battery, but I haven't seen anything about fully replacing the electrolyte. Comments?
It also depends on state of charge. Battery electrolyte is chemically different depending on the charge. A fully dead battery has no sulfuric acid in it and the electrolyte is just water.
Great stuff. Batteries aren't cheap these days and sometimes needlessly replaced. I invested in a CTEK charger with a reconditioning mode. Saved quite a few batteries and considering it was the same price as a decent car battery it's paid itself back
I have a CTEK battery charger. I love it. I also have Clore Automotive PL2320. Another great battery charger I love the 10 amp and 20 amp cycle. I feel as if the 10 AM cycle is the best.
I don't get this batteries aren't cheap these days. I the price of a decent 75 Ah battery on groceries every weekend and on average about every two three days.
@@TheBlaert Because everything is relative, there is no absolute expensive or cheap, you need to relate them to other things you use money for in life. If I can get a car battery for the price of 8 jars of Ben and Jerry that my children want to have daily I do not consider the car battery expensive. I do consider B&J expensive ;)
Lead acid batteries do not fare well when they lose charge. Much different than the lithium batteries in cell phones. Great video and information here on how to restore lead acid batteries, though the saying a stitch in time saves nine still rings true. The best thing you can do is to make sure your batteries stay topped off. If you have a vehicle you don’t drive much or maybe has a parasitic draw, removing the battery and topping it off with a trickle charger over night will help lengthen the battery’s service life. Just a tip! Thank you for sharing!
I’ve brought batteries back to life with epsom salt. Drained and filtered out the acid with a coffee filter. Flushed out the battery with distilled water a few time. ( shake it around a bunch then drain the water) mixed up epsom salt with distilled water. Poured the acid back in and topped it all the way with the epsom salt solution. Slow charged for a day or two. Worked for two of mine. One was running two years later when I junked the car.
There's a young man on YT who's started with new batteries and used an amount of alum as well with the Epsom salt where he noted the voltage is lower, though can handle more discharge cycles and therefore acts more like a deep cycle battery.
@@ProjectFarm I believe flushing w baking soda was detrimental. Just flush w distilled water then add the Epson salt mix. Epson salt leaches sulphur off the plates and puts it into solution. If u going to use baking soda then refill w sulphuric acid.
There are morons who think the Epsom salts themselves are a new, superior type of battery. That's what he's following, so much idiotic misinformation. Epsom salts do nothing except maybe help out desulfating, at a cost of ruining your electrolyte and forcing you to replace it.
Very interesting. What voltage did the battery get to on the welder? Did you try adding sulphuric acid to low cells? I have extended the life of SLA batteries by removing the covers and adding acid.
Interesting ideas , thanks ... I will say that on a side terminal battery you can not just use a bolt screwed in to test it, especially a load test , you need to run a nut down the bolt so it buts up against the lead terminal, that's because the threaded part is not securely attached to the lead post ... it's part of General Motors info for load testing side post batteries ... another thing is that after charging a battery, you put load on the battery for 10 seconds before you test it to remove the surface charge, also, I wouldn't use a wire type post cleaner, it leaves the post rough, use a scraper type that leaves the post smooth with the proper taper for a good contact with the battery cable ... Caution: any rotten egg smell is hydrogen sulfide gas and is dangerously explosive .. no way would I be bubbling a battery inside a garage
Thank you for all the great informative videos. I agree with the other comments that the epson salt has to be drained and the battery rinsed with distilled water and then new sulphuric acid before recharging. My understanding is the epson salt removes the Sulfation coating. The battery electrolyte should be 38% Sulphuric acid.
Your testing on those old batteries with shorted and open cells had some impressive results. I did similar tests years ago and experienced good results in the short-term, but the gains didn't hold up. I really enjoyed the video! A++
@@HappyDude1 which type of battery does an electric car use? Which type of batteries were tested here? Which type of problems and maintenance does an engine needs? Which type of maintenance does an electric car needs? Which car is the best? I will give you the answer: IT DEPENDS on what you need and usage
@@HappyDude1 Don't conflate a lead acid battery with the LiIon battery used in electric cars. Typically, an ICE vehicle lasts about 200,000 miles. Tesla batteries (model S and X) retain 90% of their new capacity at 200,000 miles and warranty that for 8 years or 150,000 miles, a warranty that certainly exceeds any power train warranty on an ICE vehicle. The other parts of a Tesla don't tend to have a lot of issues, very few moving parts. A Tesla will need new tires about every 50,000 miles, windshield wiper fluid, brakes maybe every 100,000 miles, and a periodic wash and vacuum.
@@apostolakisl ^^^ This A modern EV battery is likely to outlast the chassis. Everything will have failures outside of warranty, but before expected EOL so there indeed may be the odd person whose battery totally goes to pot 1000 miles after the warranty expires instead of the expected 300-500k. Such cases will be atypical and something a low cost insurance product will be created once the post-warranty but pre-EOL failure rate is known.
This makes total sense depending on the condition of the lead cells, didn't knew a welder could clean them that well, if you dump the electrolite rinse it with demineralised water and put fresh electrolite it might perform even better after doing the maintenance with the welder, the epson salt I was almost sure it wouldn't work and would be very surprised if it did, great content!
If you're putting all the functional batteries to work, should we expect an update on their health, either snuck into another video, or an entire video in 3 or 6 or 12 months? As always, thanks a lot for putting these legends to the test. It'll be exciting to see if anything actually holds up in the long-run!
The best process I've found with a stick welder is a lower current, 5 min on and 10 min off for at least 2-3 hours. It is a slow process, but it definitely works. Yes, if there is a cell that does not boil at first, you can up the amps on the welder for one or two cycles, and that typically does the trick, then you simply lower the amps on the welder and continue the remaining cycles. you can also use a charger with the START selection.
@@RogerPackI have done it after filling with distiled water and starting voltage 12.4. 1st cycle 25 amps for 5 minutes (1 cell didnt buble) 13.1v 2nd cycle 30 amps for 5 minutes (all cells buble and electrolite in 5 turned black in one turned gray) 12.1v 3rd cycle 35 amps for 5minutes (all cells bubles equally) 13.1v 4th cycle 40 amps for 5 minutes (Little bubles) 13.1v Battery runs quite good and holds 12,4 v even if left for 2 weeks in car. I do not know how much it will last but i am happy with results. Now i think if it would be better if i have flush it with distiled water after welder cycles and then fill it up with fresh electrolite. My battery is 2014 Chrysler OEM battery 80ah 640A
Would you happen to know what kind of voltage and current is being applied to the battery measured by a volt and amp meter as it is charging? I do know that higher voltages will help desulfate a battery better than most regular battery chargers can do. It would be very interesting to know for sure. 🤔
Metalic magnesium has a higher affinity for the sulfate radical than lead does. When magnesium is placed in a lead sulfate solution, the result is magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) and elemental lead. Placing magnesium rods in the filler ports of a lead acid battery filled with distilled water while charging could potentially desulferize the battery. You would have to replace the sulfuric acid, (battery acid), however. Metalic aluminum might also work. The arc welder works because is produces around 24V. Two battery chargers coupled in series could also work but might not provide as much current. Sodium hydroxide (NaOH used in some drain cleaners) has also been used as a first step in electrolysis for lead recovery from old batteries. It is possible that pretreating a dead lead acid battery with sodium hydroxide prior to recharging could help desulferize it. Great care should be taken, however, as sodium hydroxide could react violently with sulfuric acid. All acid in the battery would need to be neutralized first, then treat with sodium hydroxide, then charge (electrolysis), then replace the sulfuric acid in the battery.
Awesome video! I was was doing some battery restoration about a month ago, it takes a lot of time but can yield good results in some cases. I would love to see more testing of using Epsom salt solutions in battery vs just filtering the acid and using it again.
Hey I have a suggestion I think you might love! Even thought it’d be late for Memorial Day, with summer coming up, you should do a video on coolers, specifically the bigger chest ones! Testing things such as durability, insulation, latch strength, or whatever else! And see if a Coleman cooler is just as good as a yeti cooler!
Welderizing a battery could be mighty dangerous. Considering the cost of protective equipment, it might be cheaper to get new batts. It was a fun test to watch, but nothing I would try. Keeping batteries charged and in a warm environment goes a long ways. Thank you Sir. Fun and useful videos for the farm. We use your ideas now and again. If we were neighbors, I wouldn’t even need a computer (smile).
I'd love to see a chart with before and after information side-by-side at the end of each segment. A lot of information was thrown at us really fast. A big chart of all the data at the end might be cool, too. Love the work you put into doing these tests. Your videos come in handy a lot.
You’re simply amazing, I have three bad batteries, my car, my truck in my tractor, I really hate buying new batteries. I don’t use these very much so the batteries end up going bad very quickly.! I have a beautiful multiprocess welder that also does arc or stick I can’t wait to try this. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
I would love to see the results as a spreadsheet maybe a Google Sheet or something like that. They could also just be printed in the description. Its hard to remember the specific details and seeing it in print would make quick comparisons easier. Amazing content as always.
Never thought about using a buzz box, amperage to desulfate a battery. I’ve usually used a series charger, instead of stringing a series of batteries to charge, hooked just one and started the DC range at low and start cranking up until battery started lifting the needle on amp meter, then dial down range, then use DC Coarse, DC fine. Sometimes hitting as high as 72 volts to lift the amp meter needle. One thing I might add using the series charger you’ve got to be quick at dialing down voltage when needle begins to lift as hydrogen gas starts emitting rapidly and any spark can be disastrous. Good video! 👍
I hope to see more videos like this, though your reviews are always great. My grandpa was a old mechanic and had lots of farm fixes. I think testing wise tales could be interesting, like everyone in my family still puts corn syrup over battery terminals for some reason...
@@lassediscovers1813 I think that's the idea, it's actually put on after terminating the cables, maybe making an oxygen barrier at the mating surface? I have access to industrial no-ox so that's what I use lol
Depending on the health of the actual battery and why it died (i.e. if it died from sitting unused over the winter months), it can be charged and revived to work again for a while. There's a lot of factors that contribute to if it will last, but typically if it holds a charge after reviving, it'll be good for a bit.
However a dying battery can overload a charging system especially when it has a shorted cell. As a motorcycle mechanic (where batteries tend to be undersized for obvious reasons) I've seen that fairly often. I load test my batteries (load testers are cheap being basically a resistance wire, switch and meter) and marginal ones get recycled. Batteries are expensive but charging system parts are brutal and regulators/alternators never fail at a convenient time.
I've had pretty good results with pulse chargers, but when they don't make any improvement I have started resorting to using a high-amp battery charger - with excellent results.
Probably won't change the outcome much, but the batteries were tested to MCA (marine cranking amps) and not to CCA (cold cranking amps) which is what those automotive batteries are rated at. Love the vids, keep them coming.
Just a word to the wise. Batteries can and do explode. I knew someone who lost an eye because of this happening. ALWAYS wear eye protection (preferably glasses AND full face mask), gloves, and long sleeves. Have water nearby.
Pretty interesting test! I'd like to chime in about the welder method as I've used a similar approach many times in the past with better result for anyone interested. Basically that welder is making the sulfate crystal fall off the plates to restore some of the battery's ability to convert chemical energy into electrical energy. The method I used in the past involved a battery desulfator with high voltage pulses, it works well but it also work so well that some of that sulfate residue shorts plates together causing high disvharge rate and\or worse CCA and since starting batteries got thin plate to start with it might just deal the final blow. It works better with deep cycle types. Today I mostly use a slow process involving high frequency pulse desulfator (Powerpulse is one of the brand I use). It's a pretty slow process taking up to a few months but I don't have the high discharge rate that the other method causes quite often and the results last much longer. Hell, you can even bring AGM battery back to life after the absorbent mat dried off, just add a bit of distilled water, enough to soak the mat and use a charger-desulfator or use a smart charger with the power pulse connected and give it some time and monitor the progress every week. Please note none of these method will work for a battery with physical internal damage (battery that got frozen solid, broken lead plate or internal junctions). Lastly, you'll be working with battery acid, lead and possibly explosive gases, wear proper equipment and dispose of these chemicals at a facility, not in the sewers, please!
Hugely interesting! I have known of the theory of zapping batteries with amperage to knock the sulfate of the plates but this is solid evidence. Nicely done!
I found the $20 desulfators can work if the battery is not completely shot. While it may not bring a totally dead battery to life, if it can bring it back to the point where you could use it to run small equipment/give emergency power, I think it is worth it!
I had done some research on desulfator because my boss wanted me to keep the batteries charged in two service trucks that the company was selling. At the time I purchased the desulfator, a NEXPEAK NC101 charger it was selling for $23. It's now on-sale for $19. After trial an error I discovered that you need to keep the desulfator running for 24-48 hours to get the ideal results. The charger will actually turn itself off when the battery is fully repaired/charged. My boss was happy because he was about to spend $250 a piece on new batteries from Autozone.
I have had luck with these desulfators, I purchased the 4 amp version, as it seems to work with bigger batteries better. What I usually do is take the battery, top off each cell with distilled water, then hook the battery up to a trickle charger then attach the desulfator and let it sit for a few days to a week. Then the batteries usually start testing as good.
I had the directions for the use of baking soda followed by the epson salt method to restore the lead/acid battery, but they have long disappeared. If I remember correctly you are supposed to drain the battery of the epson salt solutions, rinse thoroughly at least 3 times, add new sulfuric acid, and then recharge.
I noticed this too. The Epson salts are supposed to remote the lead sulfate that is reducing the CCA on the plates. You need to drain and refill with fresh acid. Hopefully he can do a follow up video where he does this.
This is what I was wondering as well, how can removing the acid and replacing it with epsom salts water restore a battery? I would think that using baking soda to remove the sulfates off the plates, rinse a few times and then replace with fresh acid followed by a charge cycle is what is needed. @@Rockjob
@@nekbiodieselworks In some other videos, they just mix an epsom salt solution with the battery acid--seems like you should be able to just dissolve epsom salt into the acid and add as much distilled water as you need to top it off.
Thanks for this test and also for being cautious about the ventilation. Those bubbles are hydrogen, which is highly flamable and explosive. My granddad started a car after a battery charge, but he didn't knew that the ventilation inside the battery was blocked by a bug that used this place as a home. The battery exploded and hot sulphuric acid was spilled all over the engine. He got scared and ran out for a fire extinguisher, fell and hited the ground with his head (he was also +70 at this moment). Gladly he only got some stiches and the car was painted back with no problem.
Great work. I saw other battery videos about 3 years ago. I tried Epson salt and distilled water. Didn't work. Going to try the welder method. Thanks for being thorough.
Interesting tests! But I'm confused. First, what is Epson salt and baking soda supposed to do - dissolve sulfates? Second, attempting to charge a battery where Epson salts and water replaced sulfuric acid seems odd. Is the sulfate molecule in epson salts supposed to function equivalent to the sulfate in sulfuric acid? Regarding the stick welder, you were able to specific the Amps. But the Voltage of the DC welder's output was not specified. Does a DC welder attempt to maintain a specified voltage at a selected current? (It should, in order to regulate power) If yes, what voltage? Is the voltage of a DC welder a standard value among DC welders?
The voltage isn't standardized, but it is usually pretty low, especially on a stick welder. Definitely below 50v, but most likely somewhere around 20v. But that's just the open circuit voltage. During welding, the voltage can fluctuate depending on the resistance of the welding circuit. But again, it's generally quite low, especially on modern welders. The open circuit voltage is generally the highest voltage to help with striking the arc, but once struck, it should drop considerably. But it should never be above 50v, because then it can overcome skin resistance and shock the operator.
@@Adamant4160 Thanks for the reply. Even assuming the welder's voltage drops when it's applied to the battery terminals, I'd worry that the combination of a voltage higher than ~14.7 V plus a high current, could be dangerous.. I still don't understand the relevance of Epson salts
Your videos are usually pretty well done, minucious and time-consuming, but I really have to say, you've outdone yourself this time. I can only imagine how long it took to test all these batteries. Excellent content.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Probably out of your area of experimentation but I have successfully used a Bedini Motor to restore badly sulfated lead acid batteries for many years. I have often restored batteries at 0.5 volts that I got from a junk yard or garbage heap to fully usable again. It is more like the little pulsing desulfating device you showed but more effective. Forget all other claims for this motor for now. It restores batteries well.
My Dad was a patent attorney for ESB, which made Exide and Willard automotive batteries. The engineers gave him an experimental battery to use in our station wagon. That thing was strong, and lasted ten years. It even pulled double duty in our boat. When Dad was getting ready to sell the old wagon, he called the Exide research center and asked them if they wanted the battery back for evaluation. They told him they couldn't sell one of those batteries because they were nearly impossible to kill, and they wouldn't sell many replacements. True story.
Something a little bit different than the norm but still very awesome content! I’d definitely like to see more experimental videos like this! Keep up the good work!!!
Thank you so much for this video! The reason the desulfator and the epsom salts are working out so badly is that you are not adding (sufficient) charge while applying the method. Please try again with the desulfator plus a modern charger, and also charge the battery after applying epsom salts. I would also recommend adding a "sample" battery which only gets charged for the time to see how it's performance changes in comparison.
Nice test as always !! but instead of using a DC welder, you could also have used a 100 amp battery charger. This would probably have done the same job with a dead battery as the welder :P Usually on a dead battery you want to charge at a really high amperage, and lowering the amperage down as the charging states goes up .
I've been a mechanic for 40 years and I didn't even know that you can charge a battery with a welder. Every day is a school day with your channel nicely done sir
Informative and entertaining.....one of my best uses of time invested in decision making. Learned my lesson by buying after market battery instead of OEM. Lots of us live in the cold (-40 degree) north and would be interested in evalutions of engine heaters, block, circulating, oil pan, dipstick heaters. Thanks
Here’s the list of products reviewed. More details in the video description. Thank you!
Foxwell BT705 Battery Tester: amzn.to/45nu6TQ
Desulfator: amzn.to/41G5aVC
Battery Post Cleaning Brush: amzn.to/3ndREt8
Epsom Salt: amzn.to/442oBtl
Stick 225 Inverter Welder is Available at Harbor Freight.
I'd like to see various types of "weird" electrolyte solutions. From things like Pedialyte (which I'm guessing sugars and the like would not fair well) Disolved electrolyte tablets, and urea. Also compared to actual "battery acids" generally available online.
what is the output voltage of the stick welder used?
This channel is an invaluable resource for many professions. You do amazing work can't thank you enough!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Lol, I buy tools based off Terry’s reviews, I also brought some fellow tradesmen to this channel.
There has been lots of Job site conversations regarding the Project Channel.
@@ProjectFarm If you want to try this for tool batteries, I've got a dead DeWalt 20V I could send in.
@@HariSeldon913 those are lithium ion so it's a completely different process and chemistry. And the older ones were Ni-Cd. I can't remember the last time I saw lead-acid power tools.
He’s doing the lords work. Truly
I've seen this done before a bunch of times but... for you? I'll watch again. No one is as thorough with this type of research. Always a pleasure and always come away with new knowledge.
Thanks so much!
PPE is definitely important when working with batteries.
Early this spring, I popped the cap off a car battery and managed to splash a drop of acid in my eye.
I ran to the hose to begin flushing, and the ice cold water felt wonderful. What didn't feel wonderful was when the ice inside the hose broke loose and blasted me right in the eye!
Fortunately, no long-term damage was done.
Good Point! Thanks for sharing. Glad you were fortunate!
Oh, man, you had a rough day! 😬 I'm also glad you are okay!
The battery definitely charged you with assault & battery
You nearly had to change your name to EyeOpenNoFear!
@@daewooparts I see what you did there . "Grinning"
Not only are your videos informative, but you dont waste time with foo foo stuff. You get to the point and stay focused. Rated 10/10!!
Thanks!
you forgot to mention the dry sense of humour :-) Cousin Eddy always wants something! lol One of my fave vids was driving back and forth many many times on a lawnmower towing varying weights. They were shot from afar and edited consistently so was really effective at showing poor old project farm working 96 hours a day to make sure the test was thorough.
PF - you are the ONLY one I trust to give the honest results on subjects like this.
Keep up the GREAT work my friend!!
Thanks, will do!
I would’ve love to see you do a comparison of fuses. From Chinese 10 cents/fuse from the gas station to all the way to Bussman fuses. The amperage they can handle compared to their rating on an average of 3 fuses. Fitment and ease of pulling from a socket and a few more ideas!
Thanks for the video idea.
@@ProjectFarmI second his idea.
that sounds like the makings for a Project Farm Movie given how much testing that would need, but I'm not opposed to sitting here and watching an hour and a half of fuse testing and popping.
I like this idea too. I want to know if a cheap Chinese fuse blows at 6A instead of 5A or if it just randomly blows whenever the hell it feels like it. If it says 5A, can it do 4A continuously or is it always slowly blowing?
@@shawn576 my understanding is that the fuse is designed to blow at that set amperage. Regardless of how close it is. There is a video someone on UA-cam of someone testing a 20 or 25 amp fuse and having it hold nearly 100 amps before popping
I had a battery for 9 years by using high amp charger and basically cycling thru as you have done here every 2 years. Only reason it stopped at 9 years was because I sold the car. It works if you stay on top of it and just consider it part of the maintenance cycle of your car.
Great video.
how much time would you leave the battery on the high amp engine start mode?
I remember buying batteries with 11 or 12 years warranty. Now best we can get is 5 years warranty.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
@@marcelo403polo2 Most batteries have a "free replacement" warranty and no pro-rated warranty beyond that. I remember when the warranty was 80-90 months with a 1,2,3, or 4 year free replacement period.
I have heard the only difference between the cheap batteries and the more expensive batteries is the distance from the lead plate grid to the bottom of the battery.
Funny we've been taught our whole life that trickle-charging is how you maintenance a battery not high voltage
And in case you didn't know these brand new cars actually have a variable regulator on their alternator so as the battery and alternator gets weaker it starts pulling more electricity from it
Which is why you have to reset the computer if you touch the battery on a newer car
Thank you Todd, you're one of the few treasures of UA-cam. In this video, I didn't see a *comparison summary* so I've created one for you:
1. *Stick Welder Technique:*
- *Battery #1 (Duralast, ~12 years old, 825 CCA, 660 CCA):*
- *Initial State:* 204 cranking amps (CA), specific gravity below 1.2, internal resistance 19.05 milliohms, recommended replacement.
- *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 70-85 amps with cooling periods in between.
- *Result:* Cranking amps improved to 446, specific gravity improved in all cells, SOH increased from 21% to 46%, internal resistance reduced to 9.01 milliohms.
- *Battery #4 (Ford Ranger, 10 years old, badly sulfated, come in at 2nd Place):*
- *Initial State:* 7.3 volts, badly sulfated, wouldn’t hold charge.
- *Process:* Six welding cycles, followed by manual charging overnight.
- *Result:* Improved to 424 cranking amps, SOH at 46%, internal resistance 9.47 milliohms.
- *Battery 5 (AutoCraft, 4 years old, comes in at 1st Place)*
- *Initial State:* 62 cranking amps, SOH 6%, internal resistance 62.5 milliohms.
- *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 100 amps with cooling periods.
- *Result:* Improved to 961 cranking amps, SOH increased to 6% to 81%, internal resistance reduced to 4.26 milliohms.
2. *Epsom Salt Method:*
- *Battery 3 (8 years old):*
- *Initial State:* 599 cranking amps, SOH 50%, internal resistance 6.79 milliohms.
- *Process:* Neutralized acid with baking soda, added Epsom salt solution, charged overnight, and applied six welding cycles.
- *Result:* Voltage dropped to 11.21 volts, cranking amps reduced to 51, internal resistance increased to 74.4 milliohms. - Battery made worse -
3. *Desulfator Device:*
- *Battery 2 (12 years old):*
- *Initial State:* 714 cranking amps, SOH 61%, internal resistance 5.72 milliohms.
- *Process:* Applied a two-amp pulse through the battery.
- *Result:* After a week, minimal improvement. Cranking amps at 613, internal resistance at 6.63 milliohms. - NO Benefit -
Thanks!
Yes, Thanks!
muchas gracias, tengo una pregunta, después de cada ciclo del soldador ¿se debe descargar la batería? y si es así ¿cómo se descarga? (sin tener que usarla)
@@AlbertoHeNa7734 - No, there is no need to discharge. After each cycle, the battery's State-of-Charge (SoC) will be fairly low and each time it should improve but will never become fully charged from these steps.
Most of the power is dissipated in heat, rather than charging the battery.
I hope that helps!
@@InspiredScience muchas gracias por tu respuesta, tengo una batería abandonada y un soldador voy a intentarlo pronto, saludos.
Of all my subscriptions, this is the one I look forward to the most. It amazes me how you think of how to test these different products. Thanks for all of your hard work and keep it up!
Thank you very much!
This channel, Scoutcrafter and Catus Maximus tool review channel.
I was really surprised how the DC welder was able to repair a battery. I am wondering how long the fix will last and hoping you will make a follow-up video when the batteries start to fail again.
Thank you for sharing!
I would agree. Not sure the rejuvenation will last all that long.
@@gordonwedman3179 it should last long. The reason the cell was damaged is due to a short between the plates in the cell. By using the welder with high current it'll melt off the shorted pieces.
The main reason these batteries lose performance is due to sulfate build up on the plates. By removing the short using the welder, you're left with the sulfate build up which could be bad or not too bad.
I.e a sulfated battery that has a shorted cell can possibly be improved using a welder to remove the short, but you're still left with the sulfate buildup
@mennims the biggest killer of batteries is short cycles. Should be 30 minutes running or battery never really fully charges. Especially in colder climates.
Would be interesting to see if draining them and then refilling with either 1) distilled water & 2) sulphuric acid after the welder treatment also provides an additional uptick in performance as all the crude in the bottom would be removed
For those interested, when the hydrometer takes a fluid sample right after the welder, you can see the loose sulfates causing the fluid to be brown. Over time through normal use those sulfates settle to the bottom and build up. There is empty space in the bottom of the battery for all of the accumulated material that is no longer participating in the chemical reactions. Deep cycle batteries have more empty space in the bottom. When enough piles up it can touch the plates and short them out causing that cell to stop working.
A lead battery should never be left discharged which causes rapid sulfation. Also, it can freeze and bust when discharged. Lead wants to be fully charged unlike lithium which is happy around half charged. Every day a lithium is at full charge it's life is shortened. Even stopping the charge at 4.10 instead of 4.20 per cell can increase the lifespan as much as 4 times.
Thanks for sharing.
So rinsing and flushing the battery could extend it's life dramatically? When I do this on a 200amp charger I've had a couple batterys that have a dead cell that will come back around but usually only temporary. I have tons of cars so never enough batteries. Do you think building a setup to safely flush and maybe filter the electrolyte would save some dead cell batteries?
@@jasonbirch1182 I wouldn't say dramatically, but yes professional battery recyclers/refurbishers do flush out the batteries as well as high amp charging/reconditioning. Battery refurbishing used to be more common than it is now due to manufacturing scale and consumerism. Modern batteries use much thinner plates to both be cheaper and to fit more in, which makes them harder to refurbish. I believe there is a way to filter and clean the old battery acid too.
However the problem is there are many different ways a battery can fail or go bad. Every time you charge and discharge, lead is transferred from one plate to the other. That means the plates are constantly changing shape. It might only be slightly but it adds up over time. Also the sulfates in the bottom contain lead that didn't make it all the way across or didn't stick very well, so the plates are constantly getting thinner and smaller meaning less surface area.
When the battery is charged there's a higher concentration of acid so it's harder for the water to freeze. When the battery is dead the concentration is lower so it's easier to freeze which will also misshapen the plates or potentially crack the plastic. There's also a separator membrane or mesh between the plates that could deteriorate or get contaminated.
Finally the plates are tightly packed in there, closer than you think, so it'll take a lot of agitation to flush between them, and multiple flushes to get everything from the bottom out. So it ends up being a lot of work for no guaranteed results. It'd almost be easier to open the battery up and wipe the plates off but at that point it's just a bit more work to melt the lead down, roll it into sheet, and cut new plates from the sheet.
@@jasonbirch1182 But also when you do flush it, you refill it with fresh 50-50 acid water mix and so having fresh fluids at the proper concentration could potentially help too. Many people, myself included, commented on this video that after he flushed it out with Epsom salt he had to flush the salt out then refill with fresh acid. But he either didn't know, forgot, or maybe didn't have any fresh acid
The key to fixing a bad battery is by picking up a box of acid at Oreilly's for $10 and draining the old acid out. Then use 3 jugs of distilled water for cleaning the battery. Each time the battery is filled with the water, replace the caps and shake the battery vigorously for several minutes. Dump the water and repeat till the fluid coming out of the battery is clear. Then add the new battery acid and charge. This method restores a battery to 100% nine times out of ten. Great video by the way.
Thanks! Thanks for sharinig.
This works well, especially if you desulfate firet.
What do you do with the old battery acid?
@@MJRaymonddo not use it to water plants.
I think I am going to test your theory. I have 3 immobile vehicles I got a letter from the city about and I'm sick of buying batteries at $150+ each
This was a fascinating test. If you still have the battery that was treated with Epsom salts... Flush it one more time with distilled water, than REFILL IT WITH BATTERY ACID. Put it through a thorough, long, slow charge - and retest it. The Epsom salts might have cleaned up the plates, but lead-acid batteries need acid to work properly.
I was just about to say that. You have to drain the salt mixture out and replace with battery acid.
Can you please explain the chemistry and why acid is required rather than salt water? Thanks.
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
@the upscriber with sulfuric acid it creates a process that is chemically reversible. When discharging the lead combines with the acid to create lead oxide which is deposited on the other set of plates, when charging the opposite happens.
@@theupscriber65 Ask ChatGPT nobody on youtube comments has the time:
Certainly! A lead-acid battery is a type of rechargeable battery commonly used in vehicles, uninterruptible power supplies (UPS), and other applications. The chemistry behind a lead-acid battery involves the interaction between lead and lead dioxide electrodes, sulfuric acid (H2SO4) electrolyte, and the production of electrical energy.
In a lead-acid battery, each cell consists of two electrodes: a lead dioxide (PbO2) positive electrode and a lead (Pb) negative electrode. These electrodes are immersed in a diluted sulfuric acid solution, typically with a concentration of around 30-40%. The sulfuric acid acts as the electrolyte, providing ions for the electrochemical reactions to occur.
During the discharge process, the lead dioxide electrode reacts with the sulfuric acid, producing lead sulfate (PbSO4), while the lead electrode reacts with sulfuric acid to form lead sulfate as well. The overall reaction can be represented as follows:
Positive electrode: PbO2 + H2SO4 + 2H+ + 2e- → PbSO4 + 2H2O
Negative electrode: Pb + H2SO4 → PbSO4 + 2H+ + 2e-
As lead sulfate is formed on both electrodes, the concentration of sulfuric acid decreases. This leads to a decrease in the voltage of the battery and ultimately its capacity to deliver electrical energy.
When a lead-acid battery is recharged, the electrochemical reactions are reversed. Applying an external electrical current to the battery causes the lead sulfate to break down into lead and lead dioxide, and the sulfuric acid concentration is replenished. This process allows the battery to be reused multiple times.
Now, to address your question about the use of acid instead of salt water in a lead-acid battery, it comes down to the specific chemistry and the requirements for the battery's functioning. While salt water (sodium chloride solution) can conduct electricity to some extent, it does not provide the necessary ions and chemical reactions for the lead-acid battery to work efficiently.
The sulfuric acid in a lead-acid battery plays several crucial roles. Firstly, it provides the necessary ions (H+ and SO42-) that participate in the electrochemical reactions at the electrodes. Secondly, it facilitates the formation of lead sulfate on both electrodes during discharge. Finally, during the recharging process, the sulfuric acid allows the lead sulfate to break down, replenishing the acid concentration and restoring the battery's capacity.
In summary, the specific chemistry and electrochemical reactions involved in a lead-acid battery necessitate the use of sulfuric acid as the electrolyte rather than salt water. The acid is essential for the functioning, efficiency, and reusability of the battery.
You are a gem, sir. In the 4-5 years of watching your videos, every week it's the same fantastic enthusiasm & energy.
Thank you for sharing yourself with us 😊
Thank you!
Todd, thank you for doing this. I have a stack of batteries that I have been saving to try and recover.
Regarding the Epsom Salt test, I thought you were supposed to use the Epsom salt solution to clean the lead plates in the battery and then put fresh battery acid back in.
I'd never heard of the epsom salt thing before, but was also confused by not refilling with acid.
Yup, I also expected the Epsom salt solution to be replaced with sulphuric acid before finishing up.
I thought the epsom salts were just supposed to be added to the battery with the acid still in.
Wouldn't Sodium hydroxide be a better option for cleaning the plates?
@@benjaminhenry5869 That isn't a thing afaik. Sodium chloride is table salt. Hydrogen chloride is hydrochloric acid.
Hey Project Farm. I know you read all the comments so I have to tell you, you saved me $80. My ATV battery was dead and The charger wouldn’t recognize it. I remembered this video and that a high amp shot of DC would make it live again. I jump started the thing just to put some juice into it and the Schumacher charged it to 100% over night. Thanks brother.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Nice change from the regular content. I like the testing of inexpensive home remedies.
For example, you covered molasses to remove rust a few years ago. I tried this myself on some large ladder jacks that'd be just too expensive to cover in evapo-rust, but were perfect to put some molasses + water I had lying around in a large bucket and leave it for a week. Worked great, and removed the rust.
Thank you for sharing!
I've got to say, I was not expecting you to get to testing this process; good thing that you did. Whenever corrosives are involved, it can NEVER be understated how important it is to have ventilation and full protection, especially considering there is a risk of explosion here. I am encouraged by the results, so if I'm in a rough patch, then I will make use of the welder route either myself or via someone else who has the setup.
Thanks for sharing.
the explosion risk is mostly from the fact that those bubbles you see coming from the cells are hydrogen, which is very flammable.
I've actually had a battery explode when it was under a cover and being charged, some spark must've formed and absolutely obliterated the battery and thank god I wasn't near that thing.
Also since that hydrogen escapes when charging the battery, you should check the level and fill up the cells with distilled water to keep the level above the minimum
The danger of injury from explosion can certainly be mitigated by getting someone else to do it. Preferably in another neighborhood. 😂
I was. Sweet project cars has touted this for awhile, among others. But he's very specific about which welder to use (and kindly provides a link) but the truth is it's part science part magic part luck. One thing is FOR SURE extreme caution must be exercised it's not hard to get hurt if one is not careful. Very careful.
I want to add that ventilation and safety gear is ALWAYS important.
Did not expect that welder trick to work as well as it did. Impressive.
Thanks for the feedback.
"Very impressive!"
Just never do it with a lithium battery. Then you will get a very sudden surprice.
@@matsv201 free fireplace
@@LatvianVideo IKR and while a lithium jumper is probably really good insurance, I've watched enough lithium fire videos to not even want to keep one in the trunk near the gas tank, would try to find a place in the engine compartment to secure it. Probably overcautious of me.
Just wanted to say thank you for all of the great content over so many years. Your videos have been immensely helpful over the years and I appreciate it!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I'm glad you included a hydrometer. It will tell you a lot about the condition/health of the batt. Good cell, weak cell or dead cell. As always great video.
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Great job testing both the batteries and the different ways of reviving one. I had a battery blow up while using it to test rebuilt starters, it sounded like a cannon went off and covered my legs with battery acid, luckily it was under my bench which gave me some protection but is also probably how the hydrogen gas collected enough that a spark set it off. Ventilation and make sure you don't allow any sparks close to the battery.
Thank you!
I like that we've moved into experimenting! I asked a long time ago for a video comparing the best ways to take out a tree stump, hopefully we could see that this summer 🌞🌞 🌲🌲
Great suggestion! Thank you
@@JimmyVaught YESSS
That would be great!
Do cost comparisons, including renting a stump grinder. My taco has a trailer hitch so I rented a towable stump grinder. Not only did it make mince meat of some 10 stumps, it was hella fun. Don't forget to include the fun factor.
Excavator, if you have more than one to deal with.
I watch you because you're a reliable, accurate source and don't waste time; I really like the jump edits.
I watch you on 2x speed because you speak clearly and concisely.
I spent about 6 minutes here getting a better answer than I would have in 20+ minutes on another video.
What amazes me is I just noticed I'm not subscribed. I'll take care of that right now.
Thanks for watching and subscribing!
I’d love to see a caulk comparison video, especially with mildew resistance tests. Thank you so so much for the work you do and the really innovative ways you test everything.
You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm Yes please, hope you test Tajima's also
It would be a super long term test I'm thinking, but very valuable!
This guy continues to hit home runs with great content. Someday seeing stuff for sale saying "As Seen on Project Farm" will be the new normal.
Fact!
Thanks!
I've chosen tools based on his recommendations already. Great tests with real life applications.
That could easily be his retirement plan. If he finally agreed to sponsor products, I guarantee you there are companies that would pay him MILLIONS to have his seal of approval.
If theres no white or clear osh looking flatly rolled up stuffs where the water goes or is held in then fhats kind of worrisome for how visible the freely ,oving liquid or otherwise its water is fwiw ykwis
I literally am blown away at this concept... Interesting that only certain batteries can be revived, but the FACT that they can is what really impressed me! Awesome test video!!
Thank you for sharing!
The principle is the high voltage of the welder causes the outer layers of the lead plates to melt and shed, thus exposing fresh lead to the acid. Problem is modern batteries are using less and less lead, so it doesn't work as well as it did 'back in the day'.
@@LordFalconsword seems like certain brands use more lead, according to this video. The autocraft seems the best
@@ProjectFarm I wonder if the welder would work on those batteries that wasn't tried on it as a test. The desulfater tested one, zap that one with the welder and see if the results change.
@@LordFalconsword Fascinating! I’ve got numerous welders but never crossed the mental bridge this could be ‘used’ in this fashion without serious risk(s). So creative!
I really appreciate your quickness. No long B.S. intro. You are an information rockstar!
Thanks!
If memory serves, you did a previous test on car batteries, and mentioned that all such batteries are made by only four companies. It would have been interesting to see if the company of manufacture had any impact on battery recovery. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks, will do!
Very good question. Johnson Controls is one of the big battery producers.
Something to be aware of, even though a battery company makes several brands, they are made to each designers specifications.
Some people believe they are the same with a different sticker on it but this is not the case. Some of the designs are poor, others are great.
Food services is another example. People see the same food delivery truck (like Sysco) at a McDonalds, Duncan Donuts, Subway and a steak house believing they start with the same product.
They do Not! Each purchases different grades with different price scales and growers... Huge difference.
I can charge a battery to where it is at or above the cranking amps. However, it won't hold a charge for more then a few days. So for me, I just go out and get a new battery. Yes, it cost me $225.00. However, it's worth it to know you don't have to worry about a battery being dead when you need it and if you get 4 years out of it, that's a cheap investment in the "scheme of things" for a piece of mind.
@@trvman1 Keep in mind that driving a car will never completely charge a battery. Test this the next time you end your drive and place a charger on the battery, it will be a period of time before the full charge is complete. Lead-acid batteries love to be held at full charge and will last the longest if kept on a float charge whenever not in use, even overnight. Doing that can extend battery life to several times that of batteries just left to their own fate. Batteries are expensive so I do what I can to extend their life. Each year I take an internal resistance measurement and compare that to previous measurements. A significant increase in resistance warns that a battery is entering into the downward stretch of its life. I have one motorcycle battery still going strong at 14 years old and still testing great, another just replaced with the original lasting 10 years. One car battery that's now 5 years old, another at just about 4 years old. All testing great.
@@trvman1 I can run a small block off a lawn battery, 22$ and If Im feeling spicy, walmart sells a 50lb Battery at around 55$
I live in AZ, heat is the biggest killer of batteries around here, they only last 2-3 years unmaintained.
I would love to see you test different oil filters. STP, Fram, Purolator ETC. If you could mix some OEM filters as well in there that would be cool.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Rule of thumb is every 10C (18F) you go up in ambient temperature above 25C, the life of the battery is cut in half. This is complicated by placement under the hood, but many cars now have them under the seat or in the trunk in part because the temperature is less variable. But the interior of an AZ car left outside is still probably 30C over design life temperature.
An intriguing test! Always great to see such a thorough procedure from start to finish.
Thank you very much!
As a guy who hates wasting time and tries to be as efficient as possible, your video's are very satisfying to watch. You say what needs to be say and move on, no wasted air lol
Thanks!
I have a Vdc welder. Never thought of this use. Nice demo.
I lost a typical marine 100ah deep cycle battery last year running a medium Vac pump via inverter down to shut off Vdc a few times in a row.
Going to try the welder to see what I can do.
Thanks!
Very interesting and finally someone is testing the many suggested solutions out there. Since "open" batteries aren't very common anymore it would be very interesting if those (or other) tests could be repeated with more modern battery styles like maintenance-free batteries, GEL batteries and AGM batteries. Since on all of them no water can be refilled and extensive bubbling (due to charging with too high voltage and amps) will lead to permanent loss of water in the batteries (which mostly leavs the batteries through their safety valves) it would be interesting to see if there is any way to bring also such more modern batteries back to life again besides complete recycling.
Besides all that it would be interesting to see a real world performance and durability test of all the lead-based battery technologies out there:
- Standard lead acid battery (liquid electrolyte)
- VRLA battery (classic maintenance free battery)
- GEL battery
- AGM battery
- pure lead battery (special type of AGM battery)
- lead crystal battery (SiO2 battery)
- others if they exist...
I’d like to see options or at least attempts to bring back SLA (AGM) batteries. I’ve had good luck with prying off the thin plastic too which exposes the little rubber caps (pressure reliefs). Simply pull the little caps off with needle nose pliers and add a small amount distilled water via syringe. Leave caps off and hit them with some amps for a few quick cycles then a slow charge at 1/10 Capacity overnight.
All the automotive or large garden equipment batteries I see are still open cap. They just make the caps MUCH more flush to hide them, because obviously the inside of the engine compartment must be made beautiful. That reminds me, since my car was totalled, and I pulled the battery, I should open it up and check the electrolyte levels.
I have access to tons of bad AGM motorcycle batteries, if PF wants to do a test like this I could send him some
Those maintenance free junk is just another topic of 'remove options to repair'. Just glue it shut or glue a cover on and they have no option to fill them back up.
Where I was working at a shop, the standard procedure war to all was top of the batteries when a vehicle came in for inspection.
But seeing now 2 to 3 year old batteries die due to the missing maintenance option is such a waste of recourses
Those modern batteries are still open batteries but with a welded on lid. You can pry it open.
Your approach and testing methods are awesome to watch, straight to the point, and can save tradesmen and DIYers a lot of wasted effort, time and money. It also resolves a lot of arguments at the pub. I just hope cousin Eddy appreciates the time and effort you put in to getting him a decent battery. New ones are not cheap.
Thanks so much for sharing. 😉👌🏻
You are welcome!
Absolutely the most valuable time spent on utube is watching these videos. I love the speed of testing and getting right to the point. Keep it up, much appreciated.
Thanks, will do!
You are sooo right !
Would love to see more of these mythbusting series!
Thanks for the video idea.
@@ProjectFarmso long as you don't say the word battery 89 times in 12 minutes... Lol! I'm sure it was an editing nightmare, but you sure pushed the limit on overemphasis on this one. Great video either way!
That’s so crazy!! I have had the BEST luck with the $20 desulfator. It’s saved my motorcycle battery two years ago after I left the key on for a month. Wouldn’t charge past 12.1v or so until I hit it with the desulfator for a week. I think each battery can fail for different reasons, and each method may work for some, but not all failures. FANTASTIC VIDEO!!!
Additionally, every time I run it on any of my car batteries, the battery will test higher cranking amps afterwards. Usually 5%-20%.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
How long to you leave your desulfator on your batteries?
I do this all the time. I use a old snap on 200 amp charger that produces 16+ volts on boost to boil the battery. It’s before the newer electronic crap that’s sold today. Works great and even though it may not bring it back to new it allows for more usage out of the battery.
Thanks for sharing.
If you've got stuff to use them in, it might be interesting to put the restored batteries to use and check in on them in a few months, compared to similar new batteries with comparable use over time. They came back pretty well, but how well will that hold up over time?
Regardless, it's impressive work finding ways to get a "dead" battery back, even if it doesn't last very long it could, if nothing else, get you to a store to get a replacement or maybe keep you going to work so you can afford the replacement.
Thanks for the video idea.
”For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?“ Mark 8:36 NKJV
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”John3:16 NKJV
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”Romans10:9 NKJV
Thanks for posting...the welder is something I never would have tried, but I feel a bit more comfortable after seeing it on a channel I trust. Excellent video, as always.
you learn something new from this guys videos yay😃
Thanks and you are welcome!
I am a huge fan! I have watched a lot of these types of tests and yours are undeniably the best I have seen. On battery reconditioning I am always left wondering, after treating the battery with Epsom salts, do you rinse and refill with battery acid? If you could replace sulfuric acid with Epsom salts for normal use, I'm sure the industry would have switched years ago. I found an article that said you can add Epsom salts to get more time from a battery, but I haven't seen anything about fully replacing the electrolyte. Comments?
It also depends on state of charge. Battery electrolyte is chemically different depending on the charge. A fully dead battery has no sulfuric acid in it and the electrolyte is just water.
Great stuff. Batteries aren't cheap these days and sometimes needlessly replaced. I invested in a CTEK charger with a reconditioning mode. Saved quite a few batteries and considering it was the same price as a decent car battery it's paid itself back
I have a CTEK battery charger. I love it. I also have Clore Automotive PL2320. Another great battery charger I love the 10 amp and 20 amp cycle. I feel as if the 10 AM cycle is the best.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
I don't get this batteries aren't cheap these days. I the price of a decent 75 Ah battery on groceries every weekend and on average about every two three days.
@@Axel_Andersen why are you comparing the price of a car battery to groceries?
@@TheBlaert Because everything is relative, there is no absolute expensive or cheap, you need to relate them to other things you use money for in life.
If I can get a car battery for the price of 8 jars of Ben and Jerry that my children want to have daily I do not consider the car battery expensive. I do consider B&J expensive ;)
Lead acid batteries do not fare well when they lose charge. Much different than the lithium batteries in cell phones. Great video and information here on how to restore lead acid batteries, though the saying a stitch in time saves nine still rings true. The best thing you can do is to make sure your batteries stay topped off.
If you have a vehicle you don’t drive much or maybe has a parasitic draw, removing the battery and topping it off with a trickle charger over night will help lengthen the battery’s service life. Just a tip!
Thank you for sharing!
You are welcome!
I’ve brought batteries back to life with epsom salt. Drained and filtered out the acid with a coffee filter. Flushed out the battery with distilled water a few time. ( shake it around a bunch then drain the water) mixed up epsom salt with distilled water. Poured the acid back in and topped it all the way with the epsom salt solution. Slow charged for a day or two. Worked for two of mine. One was running two years later when I junked the car.
Great information! Thank you
Yeah. I'm not sure if he missed something, or really tried to run a battery on pure salt water.
There's a young man on YT who's started with new batteries and used an amount of alum as well with the Epsom salt where he noted the voltage is lower, though can handle more discharge cycles and therefore acts more like a deep cycle battery.
@@ProjectFarm I believe flushing w baking soda was detrimental. Just flush w distilled water then add the Epson salt mix. Epson salt leaches sulphur off the plates and puts it into solution. If u going to use baking soda then refill w sulphuric acid.
There are morons who think the Epsom salts themselves are a new, superior type of battery. That's what he's following, so much idiotic misinformation. Epsom salts do nothing except maybe help out desulfating, at a cost of ruining your electrolyte and forcing you to replace it.
Very interesting. What voltage did the battery get to on the welder? Did you try adding sulphuric acid to low cells? I have extended the life of SLA batteries by removing the covers and adding acid.
Depend on welder, my welder starts from 17 V at 20 amps up to 26 volts at 200 amps
Interesting ideas , thanks ... I will say that on a side terminal battery you can not just use a bolt screwed in to test it, especially a load test , you need to run a nut down the bolt so it buts up against the lead terminal, that's because the threaded part is not securely attached to the lead post ... it's part of General Motors info for load testing side post batteries ... another thing is that after charging a battery, you put load on the battery for 10 seconds before you test it to remove the surface charge, also, I wouldn't use a wire type post cleaner, it leaves the post rough, use a scraper type that leaves the post smooth with the proper taper for a good contact with the battery cable ... Caution: any rotten egg smell is hydrogen sulfide gas and is dangerously explosive .. no way would I be bubbling a battery inside a garage
Thanks and you are welcome!
Thank you for all the great informative videos. I agree with the other comments that the epson salt has to be drained and the battery rinsed with distilled water and then new sulphuric acid before recharging. My understanding is the epson salt removes the Sulfation coating. The battery electrolyte should be 38% Sulphuric acid.
Your testing on those old batteries with shorted and open cells had some impressive results. I did similar tests years ago and experienced good results in the short-term, but the gains didn't hold up. I really enjoyed the video! A++
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
Batteries never last
Thats why electric cars will never beat the range of a combustion engine. And it will also last longer
@@HappyDude1 which type of battery does an electric car use? Which type of batteries were tested here? Which type of problems and maintenance does an engine needs? Which type of maintenance does an electric car needs?
Which car is the best? I will give you the answer: IT DEPENDS on what you need and usage
@@HappyDude1 Don't conflate a lead acid battery with the LiIon battery used in electric cars. Typically, an ICE vehicle lasts about 200,000 miles. Tesla batteries (model S and X) retain 90% of their new capacity at 200,000 miles and warranty that for 8 years or 150,000 miles, a warranty that certainly exceeds any power train warranty on an ICE vehicle. The other parts of a Tesla don't tend to have a lot of issues, very few moving parts. A Tesla will need new tires about every 50,000 miles, windshield wiper fluid, brakes maybe every 100,000 miles, and a periodic wash and vacuum.
@@apostolakisl ^^^ This
A modern EV battery is likely to outlast the chassis.
Everything will have failures outside of warranty, but before expected EOL so there indeed may be the odd person whose battery totally goes to pot 1000 miles after the warranty expires instead of the expected 300-500k.
Such cases will be atypical and something a low cost insurance product will be created once the post-warranty but pre-EOL failure rate is known.
I love how you go from end to end of ideas and tool tests. Always a great sunday. Thank you as always for the great work
Thanks and you are welcome!
This makes total sense depending on the condition of the lead cells, didn't knew a welder could clean them that well, if you dump the electrolite rinse it with demineralised water and put fresh electrolite it might perform even better after doing the maintenance with the welder, the epson salt I was almost sure it wouldn't work and would be very surprised if it did, great content!
Thanks!
Epson salt is Magnesium Sulfate which is an electrolyte
If you're putting all the functional batteries to work, should we expect an update on their health, either snuck into another video, or an entire video in 3 or 6 or 12 months?
As always, thanks a lot for putting these legends to the test. It'll be exciting to see if anything actually holds up in the long-run!
Thanks for the suggestion.
I've heard of the welder trick before, but I've never actually seen it done. Another great video, thanks Todd.
Thank you!
welder blasts the impurities off the lead plates and internal plate connections
This is awesome, it's good that you also include the ones that failed or didn't fail. Very educational.
Thanks for the feedback!
The best process I've found with a stick welder is a lower current, 5 min on and 10 min off for at least 2-3 hours. It is a slow process, but it definitely works. Yes, if there is a cell that does not boil at first, you can up the amps on the welder for one or two cycles, and that typically does the trick, then you simply lower the amps on the welder and continue the remaining cycles. you can also use a charger with the START selection.
Thanks for the feedback.
How much current we talking here?
@@RogerPackI have done it after filling with distiled water and starting voltage 12.4.
1st cycle 25 amps for 5 minutes (1 cell didnt buble) 13.1v
2nd cycle 30 amps for 5 minutes (all cells buble and electrolite in 5 turned black in one turned gray) 12.1v
3rd cycle 35 amps for 5minutes (all cells bubles equally) 13.1v
4th cycle 40 amps for 5 minutes (Little bubles) 13.1v
Battery runs quite good and holds 12,4 v even if left for 2 weeks in car. I do not know how much it will last but i am happy with results. Now i think if it would be better if i have flush it with distiled water after welder cycles and then fill it up with fresh electrolite.
My battery is 2014 Chrysler OEM battery 80ah 640A
Would you happen to know what kind of voltage and current is being applied to the battery measured by a volt and amp meter as it is charging? I do know that higher voltages will help desulfate a battery better than most regular battery chargers can do. It would be very interesting to know for sure. 🤔
Metalic magnesium has a higher affinity for the sulfate radical than lead does. When magnesium is placed in a lead sulfate solution, the result is magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) and elemental lead. Placing magnesium rods in the filler ports of a lead acid battery filled with distilled water while charging could potentially desulferize the battery. You would have to replace the sulfuric acid, (battery acid), however. Metalic aluminum might also work. The arc welder works because is produces around 24V. Two battery chargers coupled in series could also work but might not provide as much current. Sodium hydroxide (NaOH used in some drain cleaners) has also been used as a first step in electrolysis for lead recovery from old batteries. It is possible that pretreating a dead lead acid battery with sodium hydroxide prior to recharging could help desulferize it. Great care should be taken, however, as sodium hydroxide could react violently with sulfuric acid. All acid in the battery would need to be neutralized first, then treat with sodium hydroxide, then charge (electrolysis), then replace the sulfuric acid in the battery.
So this is how used battery sellers restore their batteries. Good stuff PF.
Thank you!
I cannot believe just how much value and information you shove into such short videos! Thank you so much!
You are welcome!
Awesome video! I was was doing some battery restoration about a month ago, it takes a lot of time but can yield good results in some cases. I would love to see more testing of using Epsom salt solutions in battery vs just filtering the acid and using it again.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
Hey I have a suggestion I think you might love! Even thought it’d be late for Memorial Day, with summer coming up, you should do a video on coolers, specifically the bigger chest ones! Testing things such as durability, insulation, latch strength, or whatever else! And see if a Coleman cooler is just as good as a yeti cooler!
Thanks for the suggestion.
America’s Test Kitchen did this very test. Probably not as thorough as PF would be though.
Your best test yet, very informative, and super interesting. The welder is genius. Been a long time subscriber, thank you for your hard work.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Welderizing a battery could be mighty dangerous. Considering the cost of protective equipment, it might be cheaper to get new batts. It was a fun test to watch, but nothing I would try. Keeping batteries charged and in a warm environment goes a long ways. Thank you Sir. Fun and useful videos for the farm. We use your ideas now and again. If we were neighbors, I wouldn’t even need a computer (smile).
You are welcome!
I'd love to see a chart with before and after information side-by-side at the end of each segment. A lot of information was thrown at us really fast. A big chart of all the data at the end might be cool, too.
Love the work you put into doing these tests. Your videos come in handy a lot.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
The dizzying pace left me, well, Dizzy.
I did the same process with three batteries last year. Worked like a charm on two of them, but I guess the third battery was too far gone.
Thanks for the feedback.
Maybe I missed something, but being a lead acid battery, after the Epsom salts treatments should a fresh quantity of Sulfuric acid have been added?
Yes. This step was missed.
You’re simply amazing, I have three bad batteries, my car, my truck in my tractor, I really hate buying new batteries. I don’t use these very much so the batteries end up going bad very quickly.!
I have a beautiful multiprocess welder that also does arc or stick
I can’t wait to try this. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
I would love to see the results as a spreadsheet maybe a Google Sheet or something like that. They could also just be printed in the description. Its hard to remember the specific details and seeing it in print would make quick comparisons easier. Amazing content as always.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
You're an absolute gem man! So much fun watching you making all these videos!
Thanks and you are welcome!
What causes battery failure long term are micro fractures in the electrode plates.
I have killed mine on the vine with neglect because I have too many cars. Ones that are maybe 2 years old just won't charge up.
Never thought about using a buzz box, amperage to desulfate a battery. I’ve usually used a series charger, instead of stringing a series of batteries to charge, hooked just one and started the DC range at low and start cranking up until battery started lifting the needle on amp meter, then dial down range, then use DC Coarse, DC fine. Sometimes hitting as high as 72 volts to lift the amp meter needle. One thing I might add using the series charger you’ve got to be quick at dialing down voltage when needle begins to lift as hydrogen gas starts emitting rapidly and any spark can be disastrous. Good video! 👍
I hope to see more videos like this, though your reviews are always great.
My grandpa was a old mechanic and had lots of farm fixes. I think testing wise tales could be interesting, like everyone in my family still puts corn syrup over battery terminals for some reason...
Thank you very much!
Corn syrup? Does it help to prevent oxidation?
@@lassediscovers1813 I think that's the idea, it's actually put on after terminating the cables, maybe making an oxygen barrier at the mating surface? I have access to industrial no-ox so that's what I use lol
@@lassediscovers1813 Maybe, but it sure makes them taste better!
@@n1r0l They took all the tasty lead out of paint, gotta chew on battery terminals these days
Very interesting. Thanks for the constant safety reminders. This stuff is dangerous. It can't be overstated.
Great point on the the safety!!
LETS GO PROJECT FARM
Thank you very much!
He’s way way way better than Brandon, don’t let’s go him 😂
@@billybowman3891 I have been posted that saying for years before that "person" on this channel
@@NITROUSnBIASPLYS well that makes all the difference then doesn’t it. Sorry to interrupt your tradition. Let’s go you 😆
You have taken a lot of hours for a clear presentation, very much appreciated. Lawson
Thanks and you are welcome!
Depending on the health of the actual battery and why it died (i.e. if it died from sitting unused over the winter months), it can be charged and revived to work again for a while. There's a lot of factors that contribute to if it will last, but typically if it holds a charge after reviving, it'll be good for a bit.
Thanks for the feedback.
However a dying battery can overload a charging system especially when it has a shorted cell. As a motorcycle mechanic (where batteries tend to be undersized for obvious reasons) I've seen that fairly often. I load test my batteries (load testers are cheap being basically a resistance wire, switch and meter) and marginal ones get recycled. Batteries are expensive but charging system parts are brutal and regulators/alternators never fail at a convenient time.
I've had pretty good results with pulse chargers, but when they don't make any improvement I have started resorting to using a high-amp battery charger - with excellent results.
Thanks for the feedback.
Probably won't change the outcome much, but the batteries were tested to MCA (marine cranking amps) and not to CCA (cold cranking amps) which is what those automotive batteries are rated at. Love the vids, keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
That was very comprehensive, well done.
Have you ever tried charging them backwards to pos ground after fully discharging ?
Just a word to the wise. Batteries can and do explode. I knew someone who lost an eye because of this happening. ALWAYS wear eye protection (preferably glasses AND full face mask), gloves, and long sleeves. Have water nearby.
Great point!
And baking soda. Maybe a cellphone too! 😉✌️😎
@@gus473 And a band-aid! 😂😊
@@gus473
cellphone, with mother on speed dial
Tub of baking soda water nearby too. Face shield is a 100% necessity. There are pictures of engine bays pretty much torn apart
Pretty interesting test! I'd like to chime in about the welder method as I've used a similar approach many times in the past with better result for anyone interested. Basically that welder is making the sulfate crystal fall off the plates to restore some of the battery's ability to convert chemical energy into electrical energy. The method I used in the past involved a battery desulfator with high voltage pulses, it works well but it also work so well that some of that sulfate residue shorts plates together causing high disvharge rate and\or worse CCA and since starting batteries got thin plate to start with it might just deal the final blow. It works better with deep cycle types. Today I mostly use a slow process involving high frequency pulse desulfator (Powerpulse is one of the brand I use). It's a pretty slow process taking up to a few months but I don't have the high discharge rate that the other method causes quite often and the results last much longer. Hell, you can even bring AGM battery back to life after the absorbent mat dried off, just add a bit of distilled water, enough to soak the mat and use a charger-desulfator or use a smart charger with the power pulse connected and give it some time and monitor the progress every week. Please note none of these method will work for a battery with physical internal damage (battery that got frozen solid, broken lead plate or internal junctions). Lastly, you'll be working with battery acid, lead and possibly explosive gases, wear proper equipment and dispose of these chemicals at a facility, not in the sewers, please!
You use a Powerpulse simultaneous with a charger?
Precisely! A small 0.5A smart charger is enough to keep the battery charged unless it has an unusually high self discharge rate.
Yep, sounds like a lot of toxic lead will end up in our sewage system.
Boy did this video pack alot of tests and information for batteries. Another great video from Project Farm.
Thanks so much!
Hugely interesting! I have known of the theory of zapping batteries with amperage to knock the sulfate of the plates but this is solid evidence. Nicely done!
Thanks!
I found the $20 desulfators can work if the battery is not completely shot. While it may not bring a totally dead battery to life, if it can bring it back to the point where you could use it to run small equipment/give emergency power, I think it is worth it!
I had done some research on desulfator because my boss wanted me to keep the batteries charged in two service trucks that the company was selling. At the time I purchased the desulfator, a NEXPEAK NC101 charger it was selling for $23. It's now on-sale for $19. After trial an error I discovered that you need to keep the desulfator running for 24-48 hours to get the ideal results. The charger will actually turn itself off when the battery is fully repaired/charged. My boss was happy because he was about to spend $250 a piece on new batteries from Autozone.
Thanks for the feedback.
I have had luck with these desulfators, I purchased the 4 amp version, as it seems to work with bigger batteries better. What I usually do is take the battery, top off each cell with distilled water, then hook the battery up to a trickle charger then attach the desulfator and let it sit for a few days to a week. Then the batteries usually start testing as good.
I had the directions for the use of baking soda followed by the epson salt method to restore the lead/acid battery, but they have long disappeared. If I remember correctly you are supposed to drain the battery of the epson salt solutions, rinse thoroughly at least 3 times, add new sulfuric acid, and then recharge.
yes, he should have don refilling with sulfuric acid.
I noticed this too. The Epson salts are supposed to remote the lead sulfate that is reducing the CCA on the plates. You need to drain and refill with fresh acid.
Hopefully he can do a follow up video where he does this.
This is what I was wondering as well, how can removing the acid and replacing it with epsom salts water restore a battery? I would think that using baking soda to remove the sulfates off the plates, rinse a few times and then replace with fresh acid followed by a charge cycle is what is needed. @@Rockjob
@@nekbiodieselworks In some other videos, they just mix an epsom salt solution with the battery acid--seems like you should be able to just dissolve epsom salt into the acid and add as much distilled water as you need to top it off.
Kind of concerning ... how much does this guy really know . Back to the old adage " don't believe any / everything on the internet "
Thanks for this test and also for being cautious about the ventilation. Those bubbles are hydrogen, which is highly flamable and explosive. My granddad started a car after a battery charge, but he didn't knew that the ventilation inside the battery was blocked by a bug that used this place as a home. The battery exploded and hot sulphuric acid was spilled all over the engine. He got scared and ran out for a fire extinguisher, fell and hited the ground with his head (he was also +70 at this moment). Gladly he only got some stiches and the car was painted back with no problem.
You are welcome!
Great work. I saw other battery videos about 3 years ago. I tried Epson salt and distilled water. Didn't work. Going to try the welder method. Thanks for being thorough.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Interesting tests! But I'm confused. First, what is Epson salt and baking soda supposed to do - dissolve sulfates? Second, attempting to charge a battery where Epson salts and water replaced sulfuric acid seems odd. Is the sulfate molecule in epson salts supposed to function equivalent to the sulfate in sulfuric acid?
Regarding the stick welder, you were able to specific the Amps. But the Voltage of the DC welder's output was not specified. Does a DC welder attempt to maintain a specified voltage at a selected current? (It should, in order to regulate power) If yes, what voltage? Is the voltage of a DC welder a standard value among DC welders?
The voltage isn't standardized, but it is usually pretty low, especially on a stick welder. Definitely below 50v, but most likely somewhere around 20v. But that's just the open circuit voltage. During welding, the voltage can fluctuate depending on the resistance of the welding circuit. But again, it's generally quite low, especially on modern welders. The open circuit voltage is generally the highest voltage to help with striking the arc, but once struck, it should drop considerably. But it should never be above 50v, because then it can overcome skin resistance and shock the operator.
@@Adamant4160 Thanks for the reply. Even assuming the welder's voltage drops when it's applied to the battery terminals, I'd worry that the combination of a voltage higher than ~14.7 V plus a high current, could be dangerous..
I still don't understand the relevance of Epson salts
Your videos are usually pretty well done, minucious and time-consuming, but I really have to say, you've outdone yourself this time. I can only imagine how long it took to test all these batteries. Excellent content.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks so much!
*minutious. Not really a word though.
Thank you Todd for your unbiased, accurate and complete tests!
You are welcome!
Probably out of your area of experimentation but I have successfully used a Bedini Motor to restore badly sulfated lead acid batteries for many years. I have often restored batteries at 0.5 volts that I got from a junk yard or garbage heap to fully usable again. It is more like the little pulsing desulfating device you showed but more effective.
Forget all other claims for this motor for now. It restores batteries well.
Thanks for sharing.
My Dad was a patent attorney for ESB, which made Exide and Willard automotive batteries. The engineers gave him an experimental battery to use in our station wagon. That thing was strong, and lasted ten years. It even pulled double duty in our boat. When Dad was getting ready to sell the old wagon, he called the Exide research center and asked them if they wanted the battery back for evaluation. They told him they couldn't sell one of those batteries because they were nearly impossible to kill, and they wouldn't sell many replacements. True story.
Thanks for sharing.
What a load of bullshit! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💩
Great video as always. I'm sure cousin Eddie appreciates the help with the batteries 😂
Thank you very much!
I think "Cousin Eddie" would make a nice comedy side channel if suddenly you have twice the time you currently do.
Something a little bit different than the norm but still very awesome content! I’d definitely like to see more experimental videos like this! Keep up the good work!!!
Thanks, will do! Thanks for the suggestion.
Thank you so much for this video!
The reason the desulfator and the epsom salts are working out so badly is that you are not adding (sufficient) charge while applying the method.
Please try again with the desulfator plus a modern charger, and also charge the battery after applying epsom salts.
I would also recommend adding a "sample" battery which only gets charged for the time to see how it's performance changes in comparison.
Nice test as always !! but instead of using a DC welder, you could also have used a 100 amp battery charger. This would probably have done the same job with a dead battery as the welder :P Usually on a dead battery you want to charge at a really high amperage, and lowering the amperage down as the charging states goes up .
Thanks! Thanks for the constructive feedback.
He says that at the beginning of the video
“It’s too soon to give up, so let’s zap this thing with the welder.”
I wanna party with you, man.
lol. Thanks
I've been a mechanic for 40 years and I didn't even know that you can charge a battery with a welder. Every day is a school day with your channel nicely done sir
Make sure it is a DC (direct current) welder.
Informative and entertaining.....one of my best uses of time invested in decision making. Learned my lesson by buying after market battery instead of OEM. Lots of us live in the cold (-40 degree) north and would be interested in evalutions of engine heaters, block, circulating, oil pan, dipstick heaters. Thanks
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.