Myth Busting! Can You Restore a Dead Car Battery With Welder? Let's Settle This!
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2023
- Let’s try to restore 5 different car batteries using 3 different procedures to see if any of them work. We’ll first use a DC-powered ARC welder to apply a lot of current at once. Then we’ll try using Epsom salt to restore a different battery. Finally, we’ll see if an electronic desulfator can improve the performance of a faulty battery.
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➡ Products Tested In This Video (in no particular order):
Products:
Foxwell BT705 Battery Tester: amzn.to/45nu6TQ
Desulfator: amzn.to/41G5aVC
Battery Post Cleaning Brush: amzn.to/3ndREt8
Epsom Salt: amzn.to/442oBtl
Stick 225 Inverter Welder is Available at Harbor Freight. Recommend checking out the Project Farm welder review before making a purchase. I'll be publishing the video on welders in one week.
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This video is only for entertainment purposes. If you rely on the information portrayed in this video, you assume the responsibility for the results. Project Farm LLC - Навчання та стиль
This channel is an invaluable resource for many professions. You do amazing work can't thank you enough!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Lol, I buy tools based off Terry’s reviews, I also brought some fellow tradesmen to this channel.
There has been lots of Job site conversations regarding the Project Channel.
@@ProjectFarm If you want to try this for tool batteries, I've got a dead DeWalt 20V I could send in.
@@HariSeldon913 those are lithium ion so it's a completely different process and chemistry. And the older ones were Ni-Cd. I can't remember the last time I saw lead-acid power tools.
He’s doing the lords work. Truly
For those interested, when the hydrometer takes a fluid sample right after the welder, you can see the loose sulfates causing the fluid to be brown. Over time through normal use those sulfates settle to the bottom and build up. There is empty space in the bottom of the battery for all of the accumulated material that is no longer participating in the chemical reactions. Deep cycle batteries have more empty space in the bottom. When enough piles up it can touch the plates and short them out causing that cell to stop working.
A lead battery should never be left discharged which causes rapid sulfation. Also, it can freeze and bust when discharged. Lead wants to be fully charged unlike lithium which is happy around half charged. Every day a lithium is at full charge it's life is shortened. Even stopping the charge at 4.10 instead of 4.20 per cell can increase the lifespan as much as 4 times.
Thanks for sharing.
So rinsing and flushing the battery could extend it's life dramatically? When I do this on a 200amp charger I've had a couple batterys that have a dead cell that will come back around but usually only temporary. I have tons of cars so never enough batteries. Do you think building a setup to safely flush and maybe filter the electrolyte would save some dead cell batteries?
@@jasonbirch1182 I wouldn't say dramatically, but yes professional battery recyclers/refurbishers do flush out the batteries as well as high amp charging/reconditioning. Battery refurbishing used to be more common than it is now due to manufacturing scale and consumerism. Modern batteries use much thinner plates to both be cheaper and to fit more in, which makes them harder to refurbish. I believe there is a way to filter and clean the old battery acid too.
However the problem is there are many different ways a battery can fail or go bad. Every time you charge and discharge, lead is transferred from one plate to the other. That means the plates are constantly changing shape. It might only be slightly but it adds up over time. Also the sulfates in the bottom contain lead that didn't make it all the way across or didn't stick very well, so the plates are constantly getting thinner and smaller meaning less surface area.
When the battery is charged there's a higher concentration of acid so it's harder for the water to freeze. When the battery is dead the concentration is lower so it's easier to freeze which will also misshapen the plates or potentially crack the plastic. There's also a separator membrane or mesh between the plates that could deteriorate or get contaminated.
Finally the plates are tightly packed in there, closer than you think, so it'll take a lot of agitation to flush between them, and multiple flushes to get everything from the bottom out. So it ends up being a lot of work for no guaranteed results. It'd almost be easier to open the battery up and wipe the plates off but at that point it's just a bit more work to melt the lead down, roll it into sheet, and cut new plates from the sheet.
@@jasonbirch1182 But also when you do flush it, you refill it with fresh 50-50 acid water mix and so having fresh fluids at the proper concentration could potentially help too. Many people, myself included, commented on this video that after he flushed it out with Epsom salt he had to flush the salt out then refill with fresh acid. But he either didn't know, forgot, or maybe didn't have any fresh acid
Not only are your videos informative, but you dont waste time with foo foo stuff. You get to the point and stay focused. Rated 10/10!!
Thanks!
you forgot to mention the dry sense of humour :-) Cousin Eddy always wants something! lol One of my fave vids was driving back and forth many many times on a lawnmower towing varying weights. They were shot from afar and edited consistently so was really effective at showing poor old project farm working 96 hours a day to make sure the test was thorough.
Thank you Todd, you're one of the few treasures of UA-cam. In this video, I didn't see a *comparison summary* so I've created one for you:
1. *Stick Welder Technique:*
- *Battery #1 (Duralast, ~12 years old, 825 CCA, 660 CCA):*
- *Initial State:* 204 cranking amps (CA), specific gravity below 1.2, internal resistance 19.05 milliohms, recommended replacement.
- *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 70-85 amps with cooling periods in between.
- *Result:* Cranking amps improved to 446, specific gravity improved in all cells, SOH increased from 21% to 46%, internal resistance reduced to 9.01 milliohms.
- *Battery #4 (Ford Ranger, 10 years old, badly sulfated, come in at 2nd Place):*
- *Initial State:* 7.3 volts, badly sulfated, wouldn’t hold charge.
- *Process:* Six welding cycles, followed by manual charging overnight.
- *Result:* Improved to 424 cranking amps, SOH at 46%, internal resistance 9.47 milliohms.
- *Battery 5 (AutoCraft, 4 years old, comes in at 1st Place)*
- *Initial State:* 62 cranking amps, SOH 6%, internal resistance 62.5 milliohms.
- *Process:* Six cycles using a welder at 100 amps with cooling periods.
- *Result:* Improved to 961 cranking amps, SOH increased to 6% to 81%, internal resistance reduced to 4.26 milliohms.
2. *Epsom Salt Method:*
- *Battery 3 (8 years old):*
- *Initial State:* 599 cranking amps, SOH 50%, internal resistance 6.79 milliohms.
- *Process:* Neutralized acid with baking soda, added Epsom salt solution, charged overnight, and applied six welding cycles.
- *Result:* Voltage dropped to 11.21 volts, cranking amps reduced to 51, internal resistance increased to 74.4 milliohms. - Battery made worse -
3. *Desulfator Device:*
- *Battery 2 (12 years old):*
- *Initial State:* 714 cranking amps, SOH 61%, internal resistance 5.72 milliohms.
- *Process:* Applied a two-amp pulse through the battery.
- *Result:* After a week, minimal improvement. Cranking amps at 613, internal resistance at 6.63 milliohms. - NO Benefit -
Thanks!
PPE is definitely important when working with batteries.
Early this spring, I popped the cap off a car battery and managed to splash a drop of acid in my eye.
I ran to the hose to begin flushing, and the ice cold water felt wonderful. What didn't feel wonderful was when the ice inside the hose broke loose and blasted me right in the eye!
Fortunately, no long-term damage was done.
Good Point! Thanks for sharing. Glad you were fortunate!
Oh, man, you had a rough day! 😬 I'm also glad you are okay!
The battery definitely charged you with assault & battery
You nearly had to change your name to EyeOpenNoFear!
@@daewooparts I see what you did there . "Grinning"
I was really surprised how the DC welder was able to repair a battery. I am wondering how long the fix will last and hoping you will make a follow-up video when the batteries start to fail again.
Thank you for sharing!
I would agree. Not sure the rejuvenation will last all that long.
@@gordonwedman3179 it should last long. The reason the cell was damaged is due to a short between the plates in the cell. By using the welder with high current it'll melt off the shorted pieces.
The main reason these batteries lose performance is due to sulfate build up on the plates. By removing the short using the welder, you're left with the sulfate build up which could be bad or not too bad.
I.e a sulfated battery that has a shorted cell can possibly be improved using a welder to remove the short, but you're still left with the sulfate buildup
@mennims the biggest killer of batteries is short cycles. Should be 30 minutes running or battery never really fully charges. Especially in colder climates.
Would be interesting to see if draining them and then refilling with either 1) distilled water & 2) sulphuric acid after the welder treatment also provides an additional uptick in performance as all the crude in the bottom would be removed
The key to fixing a bad battery is by picking up a box of acid at Oreilly's for $10 and draining the old acid out. Then use 3 jugs of distilled water for cleaning the battery. Each time the battery is filled with the water, replace the caps and shake the battery vigorously for several minutes. Dump the water and repeat till the fluid coming out of the battery is clear. Then add the new battery acid and charge. This method restores a battery to 100% nine times out of ten. Great video by the way.
Thanks! Thanks for sharinig.
This works well, especially if you desulfate firet.
What do you do with the old battery acid?
@@MJRaymonddo not use it to water plants.
I think I am going to test your theory. I have 3 immobile vehicles I got a letter from the city about and I'm sick of buying batteries at $150+ each
Hey Project Farm. I know you read all the comments so I have to tell you, you saved me $80. My ATV battery was dead and The charger wouldn’t recognize it. I remembered this video and that a high amp shot of DC would make it live again. I jump started the thing just to put some juice into it and the Schumacher charged it to 100% over night. Thanks brother.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
I would’ve love to see you do a comparison of fuses. From Chinese 10 cents/fuse from the gas station to all the way to Bussman fuses. The amperage they can handle compared to their rating on an average of 3 fuses. Fitment and ease of pulling from a socket and a few more ideas!
Thanks for the video idea.
@@ProjectFarmI second his idea.
that sounds like the makings for a Project Farm Movie given how much testing that would need, but I'm not opposed to sitting here and watching an hour and a half of fuse testing and popping.
I like this idea too. I want to know if a cheap Chinese fuse blows at 6A instead of 5A or if it just randomly blows whenever the hell it feels like it. If it says 5A, can it do 4A continuously or is it always slowly blowing?
@@shawn576 my understanding is that the fuse is designed to blow at that set amperage. Regardless of how close it is. There is a video someone on UA-cam of someone testing a 20 or 25 amp fuse and having it hold nearly 100 amps before popping
I've seen this done before a bunch of times but... for you? I'll watch again. No one is as thorough with this type of research. Always a pleasure and always come away with new knowledge.
Thanks so much!
Just wanted to say thank you for all of the great content over so many years. Your videos have been immensely helpful over the years and I appreciate it!
Thanks and you are welcome!
I would love to see the results as a spreadsheet maybe a Google Sheet or something like that. They could also just be printed in the description. Its hard to remember the specific details and seeing it in print would make quick comparisons easier. Amazing content as always.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
I had a battery for 9 years by using high amp charger and basically cycling thru as you have done here every 2 years. Only reason it stopped at 9 years was because I sold the car. It works if you stay on top of it and just consider it part of the maintenance cycle of your car.
Great video.
how much time would you leave the battery on the high amp engine start mode?
I remember buying batteries with 11 or 12 years warranty. Now best we can get is 5 years warranty.
What are the details of the "high amp" maintenance/recovery process?
Looks like 6 times 5 minutes at 100A.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
@@marcelo403polo2 Most batteries have a "free replacement" warranty and no pro-rated warranty beyond that. I remember when the warranty was 80-90 months with a 1,2,3, or 4 year free replacement period.
I have heard the only difference between the cheap batteries and the more expensive batteries is the distance from the lead plate grid to the bottom of the battery.
PF - you are the ONLY one I trust to give the honest results on subjects like this.
Keep up the GREAT work my friend!!
Thanks, will do!
You're an absolute gem man! So much fun watching you making all these videos!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Absolutely the most valuable time spent on utube is watching these videos. I love the speed of testing and getting right to the point. Keep it up, much appreciated.
Thanks, will do!
You are sooo right !
Did not expect that welder trick to work as well as it did. Impressive.
Thanks for the feedback.
"Very impressive!"
Just never do it with a lithium battery. Then you will get a very sudden surprice.
@@matsv201 free fireplace
@@LatvianVideo IKR and while a lithium jumper is probably really good insurance, I've watched enough lithium fire videos to not even want to keep one in the trunk near the gas tank, would try to find a place in the engine compartment to secure it. Probably overcautious of me.
Of all my subscriptions, this is the one I look forward to the most. It amazes me how you think of how to test these different products. Thanks for all of your hard work and keep it up!
Thank you very much!
This channel, Scoutcrafter and Catus Maximus tool review channel.
I cannot believe just how much value and information you shove into such short videos! Thank you so much!
You are welcome!
I really appreciate your quickness. No long B.S. intro. You are an information rockstar!
Thanks!
Todd, thank you for doing this. I have a stack of batteries that I have been saving to try and recover.
Regarding the Epsom Salt test, I thought you were supposed to use the Epsom salt solution to clean the lead plates in the battery and then put fresh battery acid back in.
I'd never heard of the epsom salt thing before, but was also confused by not refilling with acid.
Yup, I also expected the Epsom salt solution to be replaced with sulphuric acid before finishing up.
I thought the epsom salts were just supposed to be added to the battery with the acid still in.
Wouldn't Sodium hydroxide be a better option for cleaning the plates?
@@benjaminhenry5869 That isn't a thing afaik. Sodium chloride is table salt. Hydrogen chloride is hydrochloric acid.
This was a fascinating test. If you still have the battery that was treated with Epsom salts... Flush it one more time with distilled water, than REFILL IT WITH BATTERY ACID. Put it through a thorough, long, slow charge - and retest it. The Epsom salts might have cleaned up the plates, but lead-acid batteries need acid to work properly.
I was just about to say that. You have to drain the salt mixture out and replace with battery acid.
Can you please explain the chemistry and why acid is required rather than salt water? Thanks.
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
@the upscriber with sulfuric acid it creates a process that is chemically reversible. When discharging the lead combines with the acid to create lead oxide which is deposited on the other set of plates, when charging the opposite happens.
@@theupscriber65 Ask ChatGPT nobody on youtube comments has the time:
Certainly! A lead-acid battery is a type of rechargeable battery commonly used in vehicles, uninterruptible power supplies (UPS), and other applications. The chemistry behind a lead-acid battery involves the interaction between lead and lead dioxide electrodes, sulfuric acid (H2SO4) electrolyte, and the production of electrical energy.
In a lead-acid battery, each cell consists of two electrodes: a lead dioxide (PbO2) positive electrode and a lead (Pb) negative electrode. These electrodes are immersed in a diluted sulfuric acid solution, typically with a concentration of around 30-40%. The sulfuric acid acts as the electrolyte, providing ions for the electrochemical reactions to occur.
During the discharge process, the lead dioxide electrode reacts with the sulfuric acid, producing lead sulfate (PbSO4), while the lead electrode reacts with sulfuric acid to form lead sulfate as well. The overall reaction can be represented as follows:
Positive electrode: PbO2 + H2SO4 + 2H+ + 2e- → PbSO4 + 2H2O
Negative electrode: Pb + H2SO4 → PbSO4 + 2H+ + 2e-
As lead sulfate is formed on both electrodes, the concentration of sulfuric acid decreases. This leads to a decrease in the voltage of the battery and ultimately its capacity to deliver electrical energy.
When a lead-acid battery is recharged, the electrochemical reactions are reversed. Applying an external electrical current to the battery causes the lead sulfate to break down into lead and lead dioxide, and the sulfuric acid concentration is replenished. This process allows the battery to be reused multiple times.
Now, to address your question about the use of acid instead of salt water in a lead-acid battery, it comes down to the specific chemistry and the requirements for the battery's functioning. While salt water (sodium chloride solution) can conduct electricity to some extent, it does not provide the necessary ions and chemical reactions for the lead-acid battery to work efficiently.
The sulfuric acid in a lead-acid battery plays several crucial roles. Firstly, it provides the necessary ions (H+ and SO42-) that participate in the electrochemical reactions at the electrodes. Secondly, it facilitates the formation of lead sulfate on both electrodes during discharge. Finally, during the recharging process, the sulfuric acid allows the lead sulfate to break down, replenishing the acid concentration and restoring the battery's capacity.
In summary, the specific chemistry and electrochemical reactions involved in a lead-acid battery necessitate the use of sulfuric acid as the electrolyte rather than salt water. The acid is essential for the functioning, efficiency, and reusability of the battery.
Hey I have a suggestion I think you might love! Even thought it’d be late for Memorial Day, with summer coming up, you should do a video on coolers, specifically the bigger chest ones! Testing things such as durability, insulation, latch strength, or whatever else! And see if a Coleman cooler is just as good as a yeti cooler!
Thanks for the suggestion.
America’s Test Kitchen did this very test. Probably not as thorough as PF would be though.
This guy continues to hit home runs with great content. Someday seeing stuff for sale saying "As Seen on Project Farm" will be the new normal.
Fact!
Thanks!
I've chosen tools based on his recommendations already. Great tests with real life applications.
That could easily be his retirement plan. If he finally agreed to sponsor products, I guarantee you there are companies that would pay him MILLIONS to have his seal of approval.
If theres no white or clear osh looking flatly rolled up stuffs where the water goes or is held in then fhats kind of worrisome for how visible the freely ,oving liquid or otherwise its water is fwiw ykwis
You are a gem, sir. In the 4-5 years of watching your videos, every week it's the same fantastic enthusiasm & energy.
Thank you for sharing yourself with us 😊
Thank you!
Very interesting test of these procedures. Many thanks.
I watch you because you're a reliable, accurate source and don't waste time; I really like the jump edits.
I watch you on 2x speed because you speak clearly and concisely.
I spent about 6 minutes here getting a better answer than I would have in 20+ minutes on another video.
What amazes me is I just noticed I'm not subscribed. I'll take care of that right now.
Thanks for watching and subscribing!
I've got to say, I was not expecting you to get to testing this process; good thing that you did. Whenever corrosives are involved, it can NEVER be understated how important it is to have ventilation and full protection, especially considering there is a risk of explosion here. I am encouraged by the results, so if I'm in a rough patch, then I will make use of the welder route either myself or via someone else who has the setup.
Thanks for sharing.
the explosion risk is mostly from the fact that those bubbles you see coming from the cells are hydrogen, which is very flammable.
I've actually had a battery explode when it was under a cover and being charged, some spark must've formed and absolutely obliterated the battery and thank god I wasn't near that thing.
Also since that hydrogen escapes when charging the battery, you should check the level and fill up the cells with distilled water to keep the level above the minimum
The danger of injury from explosion can certainly be mitigated by getting someone else to do it. Preferably in another neighborhood. 😂
I was. Sweet project cars has touted this for awhile, among others. But he's very specific about which welder to use (and kindly provides a link) but the truth is it's part science part magic part luck. One thing is FOR SURE extreme caution must be exercised it's not hard to get hurt if one is not careful. Very careful.
I want to add that ventilation and safety gear is ALWAYS important.
If memory serves, you did a previous test on car batteries, and mentioned that all such batteries are made by only four companies. It would have been interesting to see if the company of manufacture had any impact on battery recovery. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks, will do!
Very good question. Johnson Controls is one of the big battery producers.
Something to be aware of, even though a battery company makes several brands, they are made to each designers specifications.
Some people believe they are the same with a different sticker on it but this is not the case. Some of the designs are poor, others are great.
Food services is another example. People see the same food delivery truck (like Sysco) at a McDonalds, Duncan Donuts, Subway and a steak house believing they start with the same product.
They do Not! Each purchases different grades with different price scales and growers... Huge difference.
I can charge a battery to where it is at or above the cranking amps. However, it won't hold a charge for more then a few days. So for me, I just go out and get a new battery. Yes, it cost me $225.00. However, it's worth it to know you don't have to worry about a battery being dead when you need it and if you get 4 years out of it, that's a cheap investment in the "scheme of things" for a piece of mind.
@@trvman1 Keep in mind that driving a car will never completely charge a battery. Test this the next time you end your drive and place a charger on the battery, it will be a period of time before the full charge is complete. Lead-acid batteries love to be held at full charge and will last the longest if kept on a float charge whenever not in use, even overnight. Doing that can extend battery life to several times that of batteries just left to their own fate. Batteries are expensive so I do what I can to extend their life. Each year I take an internal resistance measurement and compare that to previous measurements. A significant increase in resistance warns that a battery is entering into the downward stretch of its life. I have one motorcycle battery still going strong at 14 years old and still testing great, another just replaced with the original lasting 10 years. One car battery that's now 5 years old, another at just about 4 years old. All testing great.
@@trvman1 I can run a small block off a lawn battery, 22$ and If Im feeling spicy, walmart sells a 50lb Battery at around 55$
Dude your reviews and thorough testing is on another level...I hope you never stop making vids. LONG LIVE PROJECT FARM!!!!!! and cousin eddie
Thanks!
You are the man right on time! I have a marine battery sitting at my property and was thinking about restoring it yesterday. I’m going to take this approach.
I literally am blown away at this concept... Interesting that only certain batteries can be revived, but the FACT that they can is what really impressed me! Awesome test video!!
Thank you for sharing!
The principle is the high voltage of the welder causes the outer layers of the lead plates to melt and shed, thus exposing fresh lead to the acid. Problem is modern batteries are using less and less lead, so it doesn't work as well as it did 'back in the day'.
@@LordFalconsword seems like certain brands use more lead, according to this video. The autocraft seems the best
@@ProjectFarm I wonder if the welder would work on those batteries that wasn't tried on it as a test. The desulfater tested one, zap that one with the welder and see if the results change.
@@LordFalconsword Fascinating! I’ve got numerous welders but never crossed the mental bridge this could be ‘used’ in this fashion without serious risk(s). So creative!
I'm glad you included a hydrometer. It will tell you a lot about the condition/health of the batt. Good cell, weak cell or dead cell. As always great video.
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Thank you for all the great informative videos. I agree with the other comments that the epson salt has to be drained and the battery rinsed with distilled water and then new sulphuric acid before recharging. My understanding is the epson salt removes the Sulfation coating. The battery electrolyte should be 38% Sulphuric acid.
before I make any purchases, I always check to see if you did a video on it!!
YOU ARE THE MAN!!! THANK YOU!!!
Thanks!
Great job testing both the batteries and the different ways of reviving one. I had a battery blow up while using it to test rebuilt starters, it sounded like a cannon went off and covered my legs with battery acid, luckily it was under my bench which gave me some protection but is also probably how the hydrogen gas collected enough that a spark set it off. Ventilation and make sure you don't allow any sparks close to the battery.
Thank you!
I’d love to see a caulk comparison video, especially with mildew resistance tests. Thank you so so much for the work you do and the really innovative ways you test everything.
You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm Yes please, hope you test Tajima's also
It would be a super long term test I'm thinking, but very valuable!
I need this video for later. Man o man glad i started following you some years ago, non bullshit channels are the best. Keep up the great work, you helping alot of people out ma man!
Thanks, will do!
Another great video! I have watched your vids through the years, and they do nothing but get better and better. Thank you!
Nice change from the regular content. I like the testing of inexpensive home remedies.
For example, you covered molasses to remove rust a few years ago. I tried this myself on some large ladder jacks that'd be just too expensive to cover in evapo-rust, but were perfect to put some molasses + water I had lying around in a large bucket and leave it for a week. Worked great, and removed the rust.
Thank you for sharing!
Would love to see more of these mythbusting series!
Thanks for the video idea.
@@ProjectFarmso long as you don't say the word battery 89 times in 12 minutes... Lol! I'm sure it was an editing nightmare, but you sure pushed the limit on overemphasis on this one. Great video either way!
The best process I've found with a stick welder is a lower current, 5 min on and 10 min off for at least 2-3 hours. It is a slow process, but it definitely works. Yes, if there is a cell that does not boil at first, you can up the amps on the welder for one or two cycles, and that typically does the trick, then you simply lower the amps on the welder and continue the remaining cycles. you can also use a charger with the START selection.
Thanks for the feedback.
How much current we talking here?
@@RogerPackI have done it after filling with distiled water and starting voltage 12.4.
1st cycle 25 amps for 5 minutes (1 cell didnt buble) 13.1v
2nd cycle 30 amps for 5 minutes (all cells buble and electrolite in 5 turned black in one turned gray) 12.1v
3rd cycle 35 amps for 5minutes (all cells bubles equally) 13.1v
4th cycle 40 amps for 5 minutes (Little bubles) 13.1v
Battery runs quite good and holds 12,4 v even if left for 2 weeks in car. I do not know how much it will last but i am happy with results. Now i think if it would be better if i have flush it with distiled water after welder cycles and then fill it up with fresh electrolite.
My battery is 2014 Chrysler OEM battery 80ah 640A
As for desulfators, I'm a believer!
I built a power system for the cottage, which later, we brought home for emergency backup after we sold the cottage.
We had 6 "off-the-shelf" deep cycle batteries (12V), connected in paralell.
I had solar panels and a charge regular on it for when we weren't around.
Also, a desulfator connected 24/7 always.
I expected to get 3 MAYBE 4 years out of the batteries. But I was way off.
We got almost 12 years out of those batteries until they were just done like dinner.
So yea... desulfators.. YUP!
*For clarity* Desulfators aren't designed to "fix" a sulfated battery.
They are designed to AVOID sulfation.
Thanks for the feedback.
agree since starting to use these 20 yrs ago i have greatly increased battery life in my mowers, one got 15 yrs and still cranks, the sulfate from plates will eventually build up in bottom andruin battery, have yet to try reviving by removing acid and using baking soda. then rinsing and restoring with new acid
@@1toolaholic At that time, I had considered doing restores on the battery bank. But, in the long run, that would have cost me much more in my time that the actual cost of a new set.
One thing that really concerns me now are these "new" Lithium "deep cycle" batteries.
Now there's a term of contradiction!
By their very nature, Lithiums do NOT like to be DEEP cycled!
Plus, having those on a solar charging system will shorten their lives as Lithium doesn't like to be charged thousands of time.
I think people who buy those costly batteries will regret their decision in the future.
I like that we've moved into experimenting! I asked a long time ago for a video comparing the best ways to take out a tree stump, hopefully we could see that this summer 🌞🌞 🌲🌲
Great suggestion! Thank you
Explosives!
@@jimmyvaught YESSS
That would be great!
Do cost comparisons, including renting a stump grinder. My taco has a trailer hitch so I rented a towable stump grinder. Not only did it make mince meat of some 10 stumps, it was hella fun. Don't forget to include the fun factor.
I’ve brought batteries back to life with epsom salt. Drained and filtered out the acid with a coffee filter. Flushed out the battery with distilled water a few time. ( shake it around a bunch then drain the water) mixed up epsom salt with distilled water. Poured the acid back in and topped it all the way with the epsom salt solution. Slow charged for a day or two. Worked for two of mine. One was running two years later when I junked the car.
Great information! Thank you
Yeah. I'm not sure if he missed something, or really tried to run a battery on pure salt water.
There's a young man on YT who's started with new batteries and used an amount of alum as well with the Epsom salt where he noted the voltage is lower, though can handle more discharge cycles and therefore acts more like a deep cycle battery.
@@ProjectFarm I believe flushing w baking soda was detrimental. Just flush w distilled water then add the Epson salt mix. Epson salt leaches sulphur off the plates and puts it into solution. If u going to use baking soda then refill w sulphuric acid.
There are morons who think the Epsom salts themselves are a new, superior type of battery. That's what he's following, so much idiotic misinformation. Epsom salts do nothing except maybe help out desulfating, at a cost of ruining your electrolyte and forcing you to replace it.
This Chanel is one of those subscriptions i am happy to have
Thanks! Thanks for the watching and subscribing!
LETS GO PROJECT FARM
Thank you very much!
He’s way way way better than Brandon, don’t let’s go him 😂
@@billybowman3891 I have been posted that saying for years before that "person" on this channel
@@NITROUSnBIASPLYS well that makes all the difference then doesn’t it. Sorry to interrupt your tradition. Let’s go you 😆
If you're putting all the functional batteries to work, should we expect an update on their health, either snuck into another video, or an entire video in 3 or 6 or 12 months?
As always, thanks a lot for putting these legends to the test. It'll be exciting to see if anything actually holds up in the long-run!
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'd love to see a chart with before and after information side-by-side at the end of each segment. A lot of information was thrown at us really fast. A big chart of all the data at the end might be cool, too.
Love the work you put into doing these tests. Your videos come in handy a lot.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
The dizzying pace left me, well, Dizzy.
Boy did this video pack alot of tests and information for batteries. Another great video from Project Farm.
Thanks so much!
So this is how used battery sellers restore their batteries. Good stuff PF.
Thank you!
I hope to see more videos like this, though your reviews are always great.
My grandpa was a old mechanic and had lots of farm fixes. I think testing wise tales could be interesting, like everyone in my family still puts corn syrup over battery terminals for some reason...
Thank you very much!
Corn syrup? Does it help to prevent oxidation?
@@lassediscovers1813 I think that's the idea, it's actually put on after terminating the cables, maybe making an oxygen barrier at the mating surface? I have access to industrial no-ox so that's what I use lol
@@lassediscovers1813 Maybe, but it sure makes them taste better!
@@n1r0l They took all the tasty lead out of paint, gotta chew on battery terminals these days
Excellent video. Very informative and direct, as always. Thank you for your direct no nonsense or hype infused testing.
Thanks and you are welcome!
An intriguing test! Always great to see such a thorough procedure from start to finish.
Thank you very much!
Very interesting and finally someone is testing the many suggested solutions out there. Since "open" batteries aren't very common anymore it would be very interesting if those (or other) tests could be repeated with more modern battery styles like maintenance-free batteries, GEL batteries and AGM batteries. Since on all of them no water can be refilled and extensive bubbling (due to charging with too high voltage and amps) will lead to permanent loss of water in the batteries (which mostly leavs the batteries through their safety valves) it would be interesting to see if there is any way to bring also such more modern batteries back to life again besides complete recycling.
Besides all that it would be interesting to see a real world performance and durability test of all the lead-based battery technologies out there:
- Standard lead acid battery (liquid electrolyte)
- VRLA battery (classic maintenance free battery)
- GEL battery
- AGM battery
- pure lead battery (special type of AGM battery)
- lead crystal battery (SiO2 battery)
- others if they exist...
I’d like to see options or at least attempts to bring back SLA (AGM) batteries. I’ve had good luck with prying off the thin plastic too which exposes the little rubber caps (pressure reliefs). Simply pull the little caps off with needle nose pliers and add a small amount distilled water via syringe. Leave caps off and hit them with some amps for a few quick cycles then a slow charge at 1/10 Capacity overnight.
All the automotive or large garden equipment batteries I see are still open cap. They just make the caps MUCH more flush to hide them, because obviously the inside of the engine compartment must be made beautiful. That reminds me, since my car was totalled, and I pulled the battery, I should open it up and check the electrolyte levels.
I have access to tons of bad AGM motorcycle batteries, if PF wants to do a test like this I could send him some
Those maintenance free junk is just another topic of 'remove options to repair'. Just glue it shut or glue a cover on and they have no option to fill them back up.
Where I was working at a shop, the standard procedure war to all was top of the batteries when a vehicle came in for inspection.
But seeing now 2 to 3 year old batteries die due to the missing maintenance option is such a waste of recourses
Those modern batteries are still open batteries but with a welded on lid. You can pry it open.
Thanks Todd, great information. I made a couple battery desulphation circuits over the years, I usually hooked them up with a trickle charger and let them go for weeks. Really like the digital battery tester you used!
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Awesome testing in this case- thanks for doing it! Still best to put a battery on a maintainer if it's going to be sitting around for a long time. Lead acid likes to be kept at 100% charge and given a good shaking, i.e. being driven around in a vehicle is perfect for it.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.
Your approach and testing methods are awesome to watch, straight to the point, and can save tradesmen and DIYers a lot of wasted effort, time and money. It also resolves a lot of arguments at the pub. I just hope cousin Eddy appreciates the time and effort you put in to getting him a decent battery. New ones are not cheap.
Thanks so much for sharing. 😉👌🏻
You are welcome!
I live in AZ, heat is the biggest killer of batteries around here, they only last 2-3 years unmaintained.
I would love to see you test different oil filters. STP, Fram, Purolator ETC. If you could mix some OEM filters as well in there that would be cool.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Rule of thumb is every 10C (18F) you go up in ambient temperature above 25C, the life of the battery is cut in half. This is complicated by placement under the hood, but many cars now have them under the seat or in the trunk in part because the temperature is less variable. But the interior of an AZ car left outside is still probably 30C over design life temperature.
Awesome job as always!!
I've suspected the same results but I've never been able to find the time to do proper testing. Thank you!!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Cranking an engine with a low voltage battery is hard on a starter, as far as I know. But I love every single one of your videos because they're honest and real world tested. I buy certain things based off your videos. Keep up the good work!
You are correct! Weak batteries fry motors and solenoid contacts. I don't do it (mechanic since the later '70s, jets to chainsaws and more).
“It’s too soon to give up, so let’s zap this thing with the welder.”
I wanna party with you, man.
lol. Thanks
I love how you go from end to end of ideas and tool tests. Always a great sunday. Thank you as always for the great work
Thanks and you are welcome!
This was an amazingly helpful video!
Thanks!
I had the directions for the use of baking soda followed by the epson salt method to restore the lead/acid battery, but they have long disappeared. If I remember correctly you are supposed to drain the battery of the epson salt solutions, rinse thoroughly at least 3 times, add new sulfuric acid, and then recharge.
yes, he should have don refilling with sulfuric acid.
I noticed this too. The Epson salts are supposed to remote the lead sulfate that is reducing the CCA on the plates. You need to drain and refill with fresh acid.
Hopefully he can do a follow up video where he does this.
This is what I was wondering as well, how can removing the acid and replacing it with epsom salts water restore a battery? I would think that using baking soda to remove the sulfates off the plates, rinse a few times and then replace with fresh acid followed by a charge cycle is what is needed. @@Rockjob
@@nekbiodieselworks In some other videos, they just mix an epsom salt solution with the battery acid--seems like you should be able to just dissolve epsom salt into the acid and add as much distilled water as you need to top it off.
Kind of concerning ... how much does this guy really know . Back to the old adage " don't believe any / everything on the internet "
Thanks for posting...the welder is something I never would have tried, but I feel a bit more comfortable after seeing it on a channel I trust. Excellent video, as always.
you learn something new from this guys videos yay😃
Thanks and you are welcome!
Just a word to the wise. Batteries can and do explode. I knew someone who lost an eye because of this happening. ALWAYS wear eye protection (preferably glasses AND full face mask), gloves, and long sleeves. Have water nearby.
Great point!
And baking soda. Maybe a cellphone too! 😉✌️😎
@@gus473 And a band-aid! 😂😊
@@gus473
cellphone, with mother on speed dial
Tub of baking soda water nearby too. Face shield is a 100% necessity. There are pictures of engine bays pretty much torn apart
You have taken a lot of hours for a clear presentation, very much appreciated. Lawson
Thanks and you are welcome!
You are the best comparison channel on UA-cam!!!
Wow, thanks!
I did the same process with three batteries last year. Worked like a charm on two of them, but I guess the third battery was too far gone.
Thanks for the feedback.
I have a Vdc welder. Never thought of this use. Nice demo.
I lost a typical marine 100ah deep cycle battery last year running a medium Vac pump via inverter down to shut off Vdc a few times in a row.
Going to try the welder to see what I can do.
Thanks!
Very interesting. What voltage did the battery get to on the welder? Did you try adding sulphuric acid to low cells? I have extended the life of SLA batteries by removing the covers and adding acid.
Depend on welder, my welder starts from 17 V at 20 amps up to 26 volts at 200 amps
That is amazing! And also makes a ton of sense! Thank you for all your hard work!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Interesting ideas , thanks ... I will say that on a side terminal battery you can not just use a bolt screwed in to test it, especially a load test , you need to run a nut down the bolt so it buts up against the lead terminal, that's because the threaded part is not securely attached to the lead post ... it's part of General Motors info for load testing side post batteries ... another thing is that after charging a battery, you put load on the battery for 10 seconds before you test it to remove the surface charge, also, I wouldn't use a wire type post cleaner, it leaves the post rough, use a scraper type that leaves the post smooth with the proper taper for a good contact with the battery cable ... Caution: any rotten egg smell is hydrogen sulfide gas and is dangerously explosive .. no way would I be bubbling a battery inside a garage
Thanks and you are welcome!
Great stuff. Batteries aren't cheap these days and sometimes needlessly replaced. I invested in a CTEK charger with a reconditioning mode. Saved quite a few batteries and considering it was the same price as a decent car battery it's paid itself back
I have a CTEK battery charger. I love it. I also have Clore Automotive PL2320. Another great battery charger I love the 10 amp and 20 amp cycle. I feel as if the 10 AM cycle is the best.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
I don't get this batteries aren't cheap these days. I the price of a decent 75 Ah battery on groceries every weekend and on average about every two three days.
@@Axel_Andersen why are you comparing the price of a car battery to groceries?
@@TheBlaert Because everything is relative, there is no absolute expensive or cheap, you need to relate them to other things you use money for in life.
If I can get a car battery for the price of 8 jars of Ben and Jerry that my children want to have daily I do not consider the car battery expensive. I do consider B&J expensive ;)
Hugely interesting! I have known of the theory of zapping batteries with amperage to knock the sulfate of the plates but this is solid evidence. Nicely done!
Thanks!
Great video brother! Thanks so much...I've got 5 of them sitting in my shop right now!
Man, this is the kind of testing that made me start watching this channel! I've missed it honestly. Nice work!
Thanks!
This is awesome, it's good that you also include the ones that failed or didn't fail. Very educational.
Thanks for the feedback!
WoW, Very thorough
Thanks!
Never thought about using a buzz box, amperage to desulfate a battery. I’ve usually used a series charger, instead of stringing a series of batteries to charge, hooked just one and started the DC range at low and start cranking up until battery started lifting the needle on amp meter, then dial down range, then use DC Coarse, DC fine. Sometimes hitting as high as 72 volts to lift the amp meter needle. One thing I might add using the series charger you’ve got to be quick at dialing down voltage when needle begins to lift as hydrogen gas starts emitting rapidly and any spark can be disastrous. Good video! 👍
Your testing on those old batteries with shorted and open cells had some impressive results. I did similar tests years ago and experienced good results in the short-term, but the gains didn't hold up. I really enjoyed the video! A++
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
Batteries never last
Thats why electric cars will never beat the range of a combustion engine. And it will also last longer
@@HappyDude1 which type of battery does an electric car use? Which type of batteries were tested here? Which type of problems and maintenance does an engine needs? Which type of maintenance does an electric car needs?
Which car is the best? I will give you the answer: IT DEPENDS on what you need and usage
@@HappyDude1 Don't conflate a lead acid battery with the LiIon battery used in electric cars. Typically, an ICE vehicle lasts about 200,000 miles. Tesla batteries (model S and X) retain 90% of their new capacity at 200,000 miles and warranty that for 8 years or 150,000 miles, a warranty that certainly exceeds any power train warranty on an ICE vehicle. The other parts of a Tesla don't tend to have a lot of issues, very few moving parts. A Tesla will need new tires about every 50,000 miles, windshield wiper fluid, brakes maybe every 100,000 miles, and a periodic wash and vacuum.
@@apostolakisl ^^^ This
A modern EV battery is likely to outlast the chassis.
Everything will have failures outside of warranty, but before expected EOL so there indeed may be the odd person whose battery totally goes to pot 1000 miles after the warranty expires instead of the expected 300-500k.
Such cases will be atypical and something a low cost insurance product will be created once the post-warranty but pre-EOL failure rate is known.
I do this all the time. I use a old snap on 200 amp charger that produces 16+ volts on boost to boil the battery. It’s before the newer electronic crap that’s sold today. Works great and even though it may not bring it back to new it allows for more usage out of the battery.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you.Amaizing work!!!!!!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Well done im impressed. Thanks for the the effort and expense, excellent channel.
Thanks and you are welcome!
I can't even restore the steel I'm trying to weld 😂
Welding is a great skill!
Your best test yet, very informative, and super interesting. The welder is genius. Been a long time subscriber, thank you for your hard work.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Thank you very much for what you do here, watched very many of your videos, and have even been able to apply some of what you taught me.
On the autocraft with the failed cell five, is there anything to be done about it?
Is a responsibly applied dump/flush/refill a viable solution?
As a guy who hates wasting time and tries to be as efficient as possible, your video's are very satisfying to watch. You say what needs to be say and move on, no wasted air lol
Thanks!
Very interesting. Thanks for the constant safety reminders. This stuff is dangerous. It can't be overstated.
Great point on the the safety!!
I've heard of the welder trick before, but I've never actually seen it done. Another great video, thanks Todd.
Thank you!
welder blasts the impurities off the lead plates and internal plate connections
This was an excellent video, I’ve been wondering about this for a while!
Thanks!
You’re simply amazing, I have three bad batteries, my car, my truck in my tractor, I really hate buying new batteries. I don’t use these very much so the batteries end up going bad very quickly.!
I have a beautiful multiprocess welder that also does arc or stick
I can’t wait to try this. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
What causes battery failure long term are micro fractures in the electrode plates.
I have killed mine on the vine with neglect because I have too many cars. Ones that are maybe 2 years old just won't charge up.
Yep from vibration and heat. AGM and LiFeP batteries are largely unaffected
This was an amazing test, and I applaud your time and effort to share it with us. Thank you
Thanks and you are welcolme!
Old lawn mower destruction videos were the best
Thanks for the feedback.
Very interesting, Thanks for sharing. - take care
Thanks and you are welcome!
Mind blown. What a process !! This video kicked my arse.
Probably won't change the outcome much, but the batteries were tested to MCA (marine cranking amps) and not to CCA (cold cranking amps) which is what those automotive batteries are rated at. Love the vids, keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Awesome video! I was was doing some battery restoration about a month ago, it takes a lot of time but can yield good results in some cases. I would love to see more testing of using Epsom salt solutions in battery vs just filtering the acid and using it again.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.