Cylinder Head Sealing Techniques | Head Cylinder Sealing 101 [GOLD WEBINAR LESSON]
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- When it comes to ultra-high boost engine performance, the amount of boost we can run is often limited- by how well we can seal the cylinder head to the engine block.
In this webinar, we’ll cover the common techniques used in high boost drag applications and discuss their pros and cons.
Note: We had a microphone failure during this webinar. All the audio is there but at times there is some static. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
In this webinar!
Introduction:
0:00 | Why cylinder head sealing the biggest issue with high boost engines
Gasket Options:
6:00 | OE style composite gasket
7:50 | MLS gasket
5:36 | Copper gaskets
Fasteners:
24:24 | Studs
O-rings:
30:30 | O-rings and MLS gaskets
16:27 and 32:10 | O-rings for copper gaskets
32:48 | Gas-filled o-rings
36:42 | W-ring
37:32 | Aluminium Bronze sealing rings
Monitoring head gasket seal:
41:11 | How do you know if your head gasket is leaking
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#highperformanceacademy #enginebuilding101 #headgasket #cylindersealing - Авто та транспорт
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The best cylinder head sealing technique: Having the cylinder head cast into the block like the old F1 cars and original Bentley race cars. Boost it to the moon!
sirgallium skyrockets manufacturing cost
@@Generalusuer Yup, but no gasket problems. It was a very common practice back in the early days of car making, and even in the sixties the Offenhauser Indy engines were made that way. Hmmm, with modern manufacturering techniques, like CNC investment casting, might not be THAT expensive compared to billet heads and blocks...
Porsche welded the heads onto the block on some of their race engines, too, using electron beam welding, IIRC.
but how would you replace the head gasket ?
Aviation jugs, the same thing, same reason. most people are stuck using the engines available.
Its only good for 2 stroke
I began using copper 0 rings in high compression highly tuned 2 stroke aircooled Kart and motorcycle engines back in the early 70s that generally relied on aluminium stamped gaskets . I used to cut the the grooves at school and used copper from the unused windings of the stator . As engines become more complex with water cooling I used copper sheet cut to suit using spray Permatex Gold as directed and fine stainless wire around water jacket openings for additional bite with the combustion chamber O ring for an effective seal across the board . I built a turbocharged 3 bearing Austin 7 engine the same way using thin stem motorcycle valves home made guides and increasing bolt size to 3/8 " diameter . 20 years later in the early 90s I went back into building engines using the same techniques but in different applications . Copper or Stainless O rings in the block for stainless wire solid CZ101 copper gaskets with thin stainless wire jacket sealing for head and exhaust as we had just begun to import HKS components into the UK but no gaskets available at that time . Took some time to assemble the gaskets as each jacket and drain back hole etc., required a tailor made ring . These fine stainless wires would bite proportionally into both the copper and aluminium head . Did some work for Tom Walkinshaws Cosworth Racing Team . The sealing system worked particularly well and Toms team met with good success . Copper exhaust gaskets around 2 mm thick provided good heat transfer and sealing and 1.5mm Teflon sheet used on the inlet side again cut to suit , to prevent heat transfer into the inlet manifold .
A typical MLS gasket is around 0.7mm thick but vary each way by 0.1 mm .
The O rings are also cut at an angle to to overlap . O ringing the block can be done with a relatively easily made tool that uses the inside top of the bore as a guide and suitably ground parting tool blade . I made one 30 years ago . Matching the head much more difficult on a milling machine . Very long time in setting up back in the 90s . Cut the O rings just outside of any fire or stop ring gasket to provide a ' labyrinthine' seal .
Before ARP I used oversize Allen bolts with cap head removed and threads cut in with carbide tipped tooling used with nuts and washers to increase clamping force over bolts . The studs would be loctited into the block .
Thanks for giving us all these gold videos while we have not much to do to escape from home
Thank you for sharing your skills and experience to wider motoring enthusiasts community’s much appreciated HTOWN
Thanks for your program offerings and the mass of invaluable knowledge !
Hi Andre, I can’t thank you enough for the valuable information you are providing. I have made purchases at HPA academy, to learn and to contribute. I’m ever grateful to you brother. Wish you all the success ❤️
Thanks for the support Ehsanur! Appreciate it and we're always happy to help, glad you're enjoying the content. We'll keep it coming both here and on the HPA website too =D - Taz.
Very informative stuff - thanks. Have a nice day all. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
if you use an MLS CHG and it leaks, all you need to do is add additional active layers. Take a second MLS gasket, take it apart and add one or two of the layers to the first gasket. Each layer is good for about 7 microns of head lift off. Just make sure the embossments are opposed to each other, and not nested.
Thats smart thank you for sharing
Somebody tag Subaru, they need to see this.
I have been using a Cut-ring gasket now for a while on a boosted BMW which came originally as NA. Works a treat
Cut ring is the name of the game on port injected boosted bmw's
Great video!
On my turbo BMW S50 motor I use the OEM head gasket with O ring block and receiver groove in the head. Thunderwork Engines machined the grooves and laid the wire with an angled cut. Same setup as a previous motor that had a serious over boosting issue due to a cheap OBX manifold. GT4094r on E85 boosting to 35psi with creep and spikes to 40. After disassembly no combustion gases looked to escape visually. Did the same setup this time around but now using a Rapidspol manifold with better boost control, and ARP CA625+ head studs in 10mm instead of the 11mm ARP2000's.
This channel has some great information as I think I will install a pressure sensor on my radiator and pin it into a Link standalone, possibly have a warning set up may be a good idea.
Do you have a instagram? I had the option to o ring my s52... went with the cut ring this time. I have L19 11mm studs, but my builder put in 625+ 10mm's (I wasn't happy) g35-900/j.e. pistons/ pautner rods ect ect
On my 04 sti ej257 motor I had the stud holes drilled out to 1/2” and used custom made ARP 1/2” head studs on a closed deck block. I also exclusively used Cosworth MLS head gasket with their specially designed embossed sealing ring which had some type if soft sealing material already applied around the cylinder bore area of the gasket. Right now on my 2018 Honda Civic Type R k20c1 motor I used +625 ARP head studs as well as +625 ARP rod bolts on the Weisco Boostline connecting rods. My engine builder a long time Honda engine builder Dan Benson of Benson Racing installed H22 Darton ductile iron wet sleeves. He also welded the stock coolant channel grooves between the cylinders and redecked the mating surface. They were designed by Honda engineers to flow coolant through. The channels are just too small to flow coolant. It would just evaporate and cause hot spots. So we agreed to do this to have an added flat smooth mating surface to avoid head gasket failure from hot spots. A Cometic mls .042 head gasket was installed. No o- ring, no step deck. Dan believes in just having flat mating surfaces to properly seal the head to the block. I should’ve have sprayed copper sealant on the gasket tho. I had my car dyno’d making 686hp at 34.8 psi of boost.
Hi great video and very informative. Where can the Aluminum, bronze O rings be purchased from?
Would you please clarify where you like to have the o-ring in relation to the stopper ring on the head gasket? Is it inside, outside or on top of the stopper? Thanks! 31:53
+1 for reusing MLS gaskets BUT given its in good shape and the surfaces are within specs. We also use a copper spray with these to help with sealing the fluids
We did this multiple times on subaru EJ series with success and these were reused with low power engines (under 300whp)
Use at own risks!! For us its an easy and cheap way to use our mixed bag of parts to test build different engines.
A “gas axe” that is a new one for me
.......
Crushed MLS head gasket
Look up the torque tightening method used on V-92 series Detroit diesels. This method assures a true and even application of clamping force. With a little experience you can feel the spring load of the fastners.
Thats the that i adopted about 8 years ago.
Hi! I've been watching your videos for a long time, keep it up! Old car mechanic once told me that you shouldn't use head gasket from opened airtight package because sealing material will evaporate and the gasket won't seal properly. And he said same thing will happen to old head gaskets as well. He was talking about stock head gaskets of course. Is there any truth to that?
You can also switch between inch and metric to get minimally larger diameters if there isn't room to go significantly larger (eg, 3/8" to 10mm, 10mm to 7/16", 7/16" to 12mm, 12mm to 1/2", etc)
Often it's better to get a finer pitch thread as that will automatically make a stud stronger when thread depth is lower (larger core diameter of stud)
Did not know aluminum bronze was being used to strengthen top of cylinders, I've only used it for valve guides.
One thing that is rarely mentioned about copper gaskets, they have a much higher heat transference than anything else (except silver) so top of block and head are at closer temperature compared to a composite or MLS gasket
Using 'thinwall' sleeves never seemed a good idea to me, flanged sleeves can't drop plus also reinforce top of block. Only problem I've seen with them is when they are not fully seated into recess although sometimes it's a good thing if head can be machined
O ring placement ..in relation to fire ring in HG (hks stopper 4g63) middle or outer edge or just outside the fire ring?
I’m having Darton MID sleeves installed into a new k20c1 block for my fk8 type R. My last block blew a hole in cylinder 3 from a last tune from being too lean. Im debating on whether or not to copper o-ring the deck surface for sealing and just have the two flat surfaces on the block and head. Is the profile of the copper o-ring round or square? Then after the head is torqued with +625 ARP studs the copper seeps around the groove?
I'm about to use a cooper or cut ring gasket on my BMW S54 motor.. would love to hear you guys talk about this newer style hybrid gasket that seems to be more reliable than MLS!
Better than mLS for sure... better than a o ring ....I have yet to decide
Those diversion channels for cylinder gas leakage are new to me - some smart thinking by someone!
Pro's and con's of using straight vs waisted studs? For some product lines from ARP, for example, they offer both options?
It depends on application really sometimes theres good reason to undercut the studs. Like for oil flow in some engines, or to reduce mass, or to retain the use of dowl rings.
Full diameter studs can experience side loading which isn't its intended use in most applications. Helicopter blade bolts are about 24mm and get tq to 65lbs then a cotter pin. They are a tight fit.
@@alexhise968 Yes, I am aware of many of the various properties and applications of fasteners - I was offering leading questions that may give some insight to others.
For example.
One of the most significant properties of undercut/waisted fasteners is in the removal of the stress riser at the end/start of the thread.
Another is less tensile variation as the head and block change temperature and expand/contract.
A third is the option of a larger diameter in the middle for use as an alignment dowel - as you say, fasteners are designed to be loaded in tensile, NOT in bending (unless you want early failures), but properly designed studs work well in specific applications, such as engine and transmission cases.
with the aluminium bronze rings why not use something softer for the deck sealing like cork Viton nitrile Teflon ?
Strange he's not mention to strengthing the heads aluminium has only half of the strengh at 100 celsius as in 20. Steel frame in the head and the studs going trogh helps.
What about spraying a new mls gasket with copper headgasket spray wil that actually help? 🤔
What thickness mls headgasket would be optimum to use with an o ring in block. I’m leaning towards Going factory thickness of 40 thousandths but being told to go a little bit thicker.
I cant speak to your engine but i try to use the thinnest gaskets possible
I thought you can’t use SS oring wire with MLS type gasket?
Why not spot weld the Heads to the block to keep the head from lifting the cut the welds when its time to overhaul it.
Pyramid rings were the jam from Europe.. never heard much about them in North america
Where can you buy aluminum bronze fire rings?
I made mine
Power or compression?
Has anyone thought outside the box and used some type of external integrated brace or clamp at each corner of the motor to keep the head from lifting? Just a thought.
Without the use of such a device you can get enough clamping force that you start distorting things depending on the setup, so not sure it's something that would really be needed at this point in time.
Billet blocks along with some other advances and general knowledge growth has really changed the game - Taz.
F1 went to using a monoblock engine design to avoid heads blowing off or head gasket failure. Interesting 🤔
They did, for a time :) - Taz.
A gas axe is an indispensable tool often wrongly described as an "oxyacetylene torch" by some less knowledgeable than avid HPA devotees. 😉
It may even be a term uniquely used by those of us either side of The Ditch. Can anyone chime in and let us know if that's correct?
...... sorry to hijack your post Andre ......
I can't exactly blame machine shops for not providing surface roughness measurements. You can spend thousands on the little measurement machines and they'll fail to ever pass a gauge R&R test. (Looking at you Mahr Pocket Surf) The business owners are better off investing that money elsewhere in their businesses with how rarely I'm sure customers ask for roughness values.
I used these a lot when I worked in manufacturing for a tier 1 supplier and rarely had confidence in the results.
More head studs. Try using diesel blocks with custom heads.
There are quite a few OEM engines that had that done of their higher performance versions. There have even been engine builders who have relocated the stud/bolt fasteners for better clamping and/or port design.
OM606
@@alexhise968 7 bearing crank as well
The audio killed this video
Why is your microphone so scratchy in this one???
From the description ;) - *Note:* We had a microphone failure during this webinar. All the audio is there but at times there is some static. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. - Taz.
"Good Luck" finding a good Automotive Machinist . . .
They are out there. Best is to ask around some racing circles and see who pops up with a good reputation - Taz.
Its possible to find. I have 2 in my area that i trust and use.
Your problem with copper and o ring "from top fuel" is that top fuel engines literally do not use what you're claiming they use.
Look up top fuel hoops
I like your videos and normally really good information but definitely dropped the ball here.
Let me save everyone some money. Cometic gaskets are garbage.
There are tons of people who recommend them, including race shops. What makes them wrong?
@@khawajadotd Not exactly sure why they failed, but they did by leaking combustion gasses into my coolant system at high boost. I have tried to use various Cometic gaskets over the years at various thicknesses on the same Honda B series head and block (ranging from 400-600 hp), with proper machining/surfacing, and they failed me every time. I've since went back to OEM Honda MLS head gaskets as well as Golden Eagle MLS head gaskets on the same setup and they never failed me once. I also have a couple friends who used Cometic for their Honda's and Mitsubishi's and it failed them as well. Their manufacturing practices might have changed/improved in the last 6-7 years since I have used them but I am happy with the other manufactures I currently use.
WILL YOU QUIT WITH THE LEFT ARM MOVEMENTS ...IT SHOWS YOU TO BE ROBOTIC
How do you know he isn't a robot? - Taz.