Ingram Model 6: Like A Thompson Without the Price Tag (Sort Of)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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Before he made a big success with the M10 (MAC-10) submachine gun, Gordon Ingram designed a couple other guns. His initial M5 submachine gun and M20 light machine gun never went past prototype stage, but the M6 did prove to be successful, at least in a limited way. The M6 was a very simple blowback .45ACP submachine gun very deliberately made to look like the Thompson. It was introduced in 1948, and in 1949 Ingram and other investors created the Police Ordnance Company to market and sell it. A total of about 2,000 were made, including an order of 400 to the Peruvian government which was coupled with a licensing agreement which would see some 8,000 more produced in Peru on license.
The Model 6 was offered in three calibers, but only the .45 ACP saw any sales (the other options were 9x19mm and .38 Super). Three configurations were detailed in the company’s marketing literature, although in production guns some of the features were mixed. The official models were the Police (finned barrel and vertical front grip), Guard (smooth barrel and horizontal front grip), and Military (smooth barrel, fully hooded sight, sling swivels, and spike bayonet). Production on lasted for a few years, as Ingram left the company in 1953 and it dissolved in 1954. Today, Model 6 submachine guns are a neat and under recognized piece of Ingram history, completely overshadowed by the M9, M10, and M11 designs which Ingram would produce later.
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Me: "Can we stop and get a Thompson"
Armorer: "We have Thompson at home"
LMFAO at this... Pretty much
Thomp son at home:
@@giannisantetokoumnpo7473 don’t thomp your son
@@mynametagidk lol
@@johnfagan1938 what did he say?
I'm pretty sure this is the pixelated thompson from Battlefield 1942
But BF1942 isnt pixelated..........
I heard that before Ingram got into gun development, he started a business manufacturing trash can lids. He thought he had a superior design but it didn't go anywhere. He was stuck will a very large inventory for years. I never did hear what happened to all those trash can lids.
@@stalkinghorse883 They became M-10s......lol
Yeah, it's less everything compared to the Thompson
less weight
less bullets
less parts
less complicated
less jamming
what else could you possibly want people
@@Kacpa2 he means because the graphics were bad
A few thousand sales isn't bad for an immediate post war SMG. The simplicity is impressive and the stacked plates is a neat way of saving on machine time.
@@jjohnston94 Though with padlocks the aim is somewhat different.
Quite sturdy as well as cheap to produce. With sheet steel like this, it can be hardened to 100% of its depth rather than shallowly as a thicker part would be.
In Brazil padlocks are made from solid brass, but I saw a few made this way. Voltage converters use this method, I saw many of them when I was a boy. Interesting, I didn't note this when I saw this video a few years ago.
My dad was a LEO in the late 60's thru early 80"s and I remember seeing one of these in the Sheriff's Office Armory when I was a kid. I remeber telling my dad "Oh wow a real Tommy Gun". His reply was no its not a real Tommy Gun but it looks like it and shoots the same cartridge. Thanks for the review Ian, brought back some fond memories of time with my dad while "on tour" of his place of employmemt.
I keep getting distracted by that FG42 in the background. It's absolutely beautiful
If only it was a 1st design, I think the 1st designs look way better but they are both awesome
Me and my friends like to watch his videos get drunk and play a little game we made called "what gun is behind Ian"
i thought i recognized that
@@freeman105 this sure looks like the gun sold in ads in magazines and even comic books...seem to recall a price of $49.95...I could be wrong...but it's odd he didn't mention that...saw those ads often in the '50's....in those ads it was listed as a machine gun but no mention was made of NFA requirements....
Looks like if you described a Thompson over the phone to somebody who then tried to draw it without ever seeing one...
Lol, gold!
But only if the person describing doesn't know the word "Square"
It's a Thompson off dhgate
It's literally the mental image everyone has when they hear American Mafia/Al Capone/Prohibition
It's not accurate but close enough
More like someone described the bastard offspring of a Thompson and a Greasegun.
Ingram: Hey Auto Ordinance you mind if I copy your homework?
Auto Ordinance: Yeah sure just make sure you change the answers a bit.
Ingram: Model 6
If only Nazi Germany never invented assault rifles,
I'm sure the Ingram model 6 would be the most produced and copied gun in the world due to it's simplicity
Take that commies and their overrated AKs
@Solipsil Nazi Germany did not invent ARs. Eugene Stoner did. AR stand for Armalite Rifle.
@@andrehashimoto8056 The concept of the assault rifle started in WWI long before the Nazi's were in power. Storm troops to assault the trenches. AR DOES NOT MEAN ASSAULT RIFLE . It means what I said it means. Yes I speak German. You are talking about two different things.
If Ingram had designed this in 1940 there would have been a million of them made.
@@unnamed_boi Come to think of it though, the lethality of the gun doesn't mean shit when almost every gun can kill with a single round. If it kills, it kills. Obviously, the AK is a better gun overall because it's a rifle.
@@UA-camViolates1A and a 7.62 has more stopping power and range accuracy. Do some research on the US invasion of the Philippines, then you'll see why it matters.
@@GamingBoTv What kinda dumbasses compare an SMG's "stopping power" to a rifle's? Regardless, nearly all guns kill. Stopping power still does not mean shit. If that was the case, those guys in the middle east with their Kar 98s would've whooped Russia.
@@UA-camViolates1A It really doesnt work that way. Have you ever been near a firearm in your life
@@MrPanos2000 Yes it does. And yes, I've been around firearms. I've shot some too. Not sure why I need to be around them though to know that guns are lethal. I'm not talking about Nerf guns, stun guns, money guns, airsoft or paintball guns. All REAL firearms can kill. Except for maybe guns the same size as a Kolibri, but I think that goes without saying.
10:20 When you're playing with legos and can't be bothered to find a thicker block, so you just stack the thin ones on top of each other.
There's something oddly charming about this gun, I rather like how it looks.
To me it looks kinda like a Thompson had a baby with the h&k mp5s grandmother
From watching this I get the impression that the designer was consciously going for as few milled components as possible, (Likely to keep production costs low and thus increase its marketability to large govt funded organizations like the military) and also mechanical simplicity (To keep the thing easy to maintain and reduce breakage). I could be completely wrong, but that's certainly the impression that weapon made to me at least.
Even the M3/M3a1 and STEN were adopted because they were cheaper and faster to produce than the Thompson. All because of simplifying the designs, which included Stamped parts vs Milled.
Ingram said that he wanted it to be something that could be made almost anywhere
It looks like a mix of the Thompson and the mp5 to me . Lol
Only because of front guard being angled. Nothing else is even remotely similar H&K guns
I was going to say the same LOL
Kacpa2 yeah
wow... your right!
Kacpa2 It's the shape, use photoshop and put them on top of eachother if you don't see it
The laminated sight block and trigger is really quite interesting.
I like simple guns. To me it makes far more sense then stupidly complicated guns. My favourite ones are ones that are simple but high quality.
I agree, but I also tend to feel that once you're leaving out a drop safety your gun might be a little *too* simple
@@Echin0idea Yes and no. I don;t think a drop safety is always required depending on what gun you are designing and what it's intended goal is. If your just making a cheap gun that's effective enough to get he job done then it doesn't need one. Soldiers are disposable after all or at least they where in the past. These days in a modern military it's more important I think because military's invest so much money in their soldiers that they don't want to loose them.
On the other side how often do you drop a gun and could it not simply be mitigated with different doctrine. If you teach your soldiers to carry a gun with a stray on would that not remove that problem altogether. And or not simply using other methods of a safety like a double position on a magazine so the magazine while not in combat isn't engaged but still in the gun when you want to fire it you push it further in and engages.
So flintlock?
@@Drownedinblood Have you looked up close at a flintlock? Some were simple, most were monstrously complicated for what they were. A lot of older guns were very complicated and inefficient compared to more modern designs.
I too appreciate the efficiency of simple designs. Doesn't need six thousand well made parts that take forever to manufacture and costs a fortune, when you can have only a few quick and dirty parts that perform the same function just as well. Oh no, the gun broke or got damaged in the field, too bad you can make a dozen of them for the cost of one more expensive gun, and arm more people while you're at it.
They used some in the pilot episode of The A-Team, which is the only time anyone has ever heard or seen of these since they were made.
Look at that beauty in the background, flirting with everyone.
>Peru licensed and made about 8000 of them
Me (out loud): Good for them!
Another interesting video about a truly “forgotten weapon”. I hope a review of the MAC 10 and 11 isn’t far behind!
Seconded!
I thought hes done those already?
Why a MAC 10 when there's probably some shitty Cobray gun out there!?
Believe it or not, it looks like Cobray actually produced M-10 and M-11 guns (and a semiauto .380ACP, the M-12).
@@wildward93 come on man every one knows cobray is the greatest firearms manufacturer ever
I'm just here for the sound effects... 8:50
is there a jesus soundboard already? XD
I bet there will be at somepoint!
Same. That "boing" was adorable. :D
Boing!
Looks like a fake Thompson you'd use in some kind of alternate reality ww2 game
As wolfestein ?
Or B Movies
"Oh, great guys, I found the "Thomas" gun"
All the best brands! Sorny, Magnetbox, Tompson...
i have a thomas gun with speed reload, looking for a x2 dmg multiplier, anyone up for a trade
What a simple gun compared to the Thompson, I wonder how much it would have cost at the time.
Thanks for bringing us this unusual piece of history.
Safety concerns and fire selector mainly, though tbh the solutions on Thompson would work and do work completely in the same manner on every other blowback smg without that rudimentary delaying system.
This design is just as plain and simple as you can get away with, and I certainly would prefer something more sophisticated.
Ian, this video is an external link on Wikipedia when you search the Model 6. Way to go, man, Wiki is starting to see you as a great information source!
I think the M6 in .38 Super would have been amazing... I really think the .38 Super should have become far more popular than it was and would make a great sub gun caliber much like the 9x23 Largo.
That's a very interesting gun there Ian. I can't wait to see it firing and the comparison to the Tommy gun.
Imagine if someone made this as a cheap semi auto carbine
It would be like an American Volksturm gewehr.
Can you imagine a alternate reality where eugene stoner, lj sullivan, and aimo lahti worked on the ar-15 development?
An AR-15 with a big fricking drum!
@@germanyball1379so an AR based LMG like an American version of an RPK.
its actually pretty clean, I like it
THANK YOU BASED FORGOTTEN WEAPONS FOR DOING A VIDEO ABOUT THE GUN I ASKED FOR IN THE COMMENTS SECTION OF A PREVIOUS VIDEO.
Wow, that front sight _is_ fascinating. Thanks for the reasoning on not using a grease gun mag...I guess those only became sort-of common after they started coming back as parts kits at some point...?
Also, really? No one bought many spare magazines for their new _submachinegun?_
I thought that was a bit odd too, not buying s whole lot of spare magazines. But police and prison work isn't exactly combat.
If Grease Gun received furniture updates like Sten MkV
Its far closer to sten if you think about it xD. Just that it has proper double feed mag and Good furniture and longer barrel xd
An interesting What If -scenario where Aimo Lahti would've been designing guns in the US...
Lahti and Ingram together... I am sure the result would have been something very nice!
The
It looks like a Thompson made from memory by someone who manufactures MP5s and has only been told about the Thompson.
It looks like a Thompson that hasn’t fully loaded in yet.
and Ingram is impatient, so he sells it before it fully loads
+mp5
The reciever and magazine were both made from extruded seemless tube, which was a new technique at the time.
BSA Rep holds up a STEN Mk V..."So, what do you think?"
Ingram: "Hold my beer."
I like that, only no one's truck was wrecked, house set on fire, or had to have Paramedics show up.
I'm at my happiest relaxing at night eating cereal watching Ian's SMG videos
The front sight block and trigger lever. Laminated steel is common in transformers, and the Crosley CoBra fire pump engine (later race car motor) used a brazed sheetmetal engine block (COpper BRAzed) so it's method of it's day, like 3D printing (for good or ill) is currently
Nice anecdote about the correspondence. Details like that are why I love this channel
I swear, some of these open bolt stamped submachine guns look like I could probably build one in my garage.
It looks like it's taken some design elements from the VolkssturmGewehr, which is probably a coincidence. But an incredible looking gun nonetheless!
If the grease gun didn't exist this would have been a nice alternative.
I don't have much interest in guns (shot a 22 once 56 years ago) but I've watched a few of your videos and man you know your stuff!
Awesome mint condition all the Morphy items... Even Gun Jesus must be impressed.
Many police models probably spent 90% of their lives sitting in a rack at headquarters.
I like how this video is 2 weeks from being 2 years old, but UA-cam still shows it as a year old
Very interesting design, thank you for showing it. The receiver looks very similiar to the sten but the lower receiver is much easier to manufacture in a homeworkshop. It is also interesting, that the firearm is lighter than a M3 Grease gun, altough he just used a tube and flat sheet metals. In my opinion it is superior to similar firearms from this era, and it can be produced cheap, even in very small numbers. Very good to see, that he kept his philopsophy of simplicity and had success with it later on (Mac-10, Mac-11).
It still suprises me every time I hear anything regarding California in one of these videos, having grown up in a post AWB world
I love how many of the guns you're shooting lately :) really ads to it all to see it in action after learning about it.
There’s something very aesthetically pleasing about the way this looks
“Whatever adjective you would use to describe the Mac-10”
*Ostentatious*
I'd been waiting since the dawn of web videos to see a good video on these guns. Thank you.
Could not find a single picture of the mentioned Ingram M20 light machine gun.
I had a "Dewat" one of these back in 1965, sold it in 67 as it answered my question of how it worked.
This looks like someone ww2'd an mp5
Speaking of which, look up pictures of a wooden furniture MP5. People have modified them with original G3 parts, it's lovely.
Ever since you started this series on the Thompson, I knew this would show up in some form or another.
This looks like a hunk uh junk hammered together in a garage......and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's like someone tried to draw a Thomson from memory
Well you're up early gun jesus
Bold of you to assume gun jesus sleeps
assuming thompson is retro rich gang iconic machinegun,this gun is poor street gang using.
And eventually Ingram's Model 10 would be the choice of street gangs
I've been waiting for this one for a long time. Thank you. I can't wait for the shooting range video. And the videos on the other models !
I just find it funny how there are so many SMGs out there which are basically just a Sten in different configurations; sheet metal tube, spring, steel cylinder with a firing pin, and a barrel. Whatever magazine setup you want thrown in.
Imagine experiencing the piss-poor ergonomics of a Thompson and coming away thinking "this is the ONE part of that experience that I'm going to keep."
I love the pipe wrench marks on the barrel nut. Just screams "quality".
this is kinda sad for a fan of mechanically interesting pieces. uet its sooo simple it becomes interesting again. how?
I just realize that I own the M6 that Ian has in his video. SN 227. Small world, Pretty cool.
I guess I'm one of the few that find beauty in its simplicity. Would be cool if someone made 80% kits of it!
I like the cleverness of stacking sheet metal. I'll have to remember that.
Me:Mom can I get a Thompson?
Mom: No, we have Thompson’s at home
The Thompson’s at home:
When you try drawing a Thompson in class during a Maths lesson
Like a Sten with IKEA pressboard stocks.
STÆNN
Ian thank you for your well researched and through discriptions of these arms. I do have an interesting suggestion I was researching a pistol caliber carbines and came across a d-max from Oregon it is a side magi zine form the 80's
Apologies d-max was out of Washington not Oregon
Forget the Thompson, that looks like an early MP5 (but with wood).
I am not sure if it is the same in the gun world, but in other places those stacks of plates would be called a lamination
"We''ll find out later on the range" or will we?.....
There is something else going on in the lower assembly: there is another part, a plate on the right of the trigger, that provides a single shot capability depending on how far back the trigger is pulled. And the cutout in the upper receiver is for the trigger and that semi-auto sear rather than for the trigger and ejector.
Thompson and Ingram sounds like names for brothers
Wow, the design is so simple in many details, I wonder what the production costs were for one unit?
There's a lot of interesting manufacturing features on this gun, the design of the magazine follower is identical to that of the K31 (except in size) and the use of stacked stampings was something the Germans were doing with non-critical components such as the hammers in LP-42 flare pistols.
Looks like a gun for the DIY market; like a gun you'd want if you can do basic machine tools in your home shop, if something breaks just hammer out a new one!
When a Thompson gets really drunk and goes home with a Sten...
I really dig the format of presentation and history one day, range time the next day.
When the M1A1 and Blyskawika had an illegitimate love baby...
I actually love the look of this gun, but that's probably because I love unusual, less well-known guns.
Great gun videos,Thanks Ian.
This feels like the kind of gun you'd find in a falling down barn or shed. You'd try to piece together how they built it and wonder whether or not it was a one off.
Ingram: Lets put an MP5-ish handguard an some weird tubular design for the receiver on a Thompson
have you encountered the ingram MG? A blowback full-power-rifle-cartridge MG would be an interesting episode.
The stacked plate sight and trigger parts are a hold over from the radar magnetron design .
I find the connection to Aimo Lahti very interesting, I also wonder how it would've been had he gone to the States.
Auction estimate seems extraordinarily low for a transferrable MG . Maybe the Yugo of collectible MG's???
When i heard Ingram, i automatically thinking about that .380/.45 acp or 9mm Machine pistol, the Mac10/11 because maybe it one of his most well known gun.
That's an MP5 that transitioned into a Thompson, it's a TRANS THOMPSON.
Looks like one of those Mattel toy Tommy Guns from the 60's
12:05 that weird “hey” freaked me out lol
But... You forgot to cover the most important issues with the Model 6? Are you legally required to wear black leather gloves while shooting _this_ Ingram?
Its an very serious point!
9:58 should be the ad in the sportsman's catalog you could buy this out of
If this design had been available circa 1940, do you think it would have been used instead of Thompson and/or the M3 Grease-gun?
Those stacked plates are like layers in 3D printing ;)
It was actually a Suomi drum mag that Lahti sent to Ingram. Ingram was disappointed because he wanted to study the 50 round Suomi coffin mag to adapt for use in the Model 6. (At least according to the MAC Man book.)
No wonder he got a drum if he asked Lathi. The coffin mag and the 36 round stick are swedish designs as far as i know.
Just seen one of these at a "gun buyback program". The one with the foregrip and finned barrel. Someone turned it in for $500.
It didn't show up in the photo op for the media. I wonder if someone made it "disappear" they always like show the "scary" ones but it's not in the photos. 😂
Nice simple oldschool SMG, waiting for shooting video:D
Ergonomically it actually looks more comfortable/wieldy than the Thompson does, kinda reminds me of an MP5.