Something you might not have considered is how much more accessible this makes the game to colourblind people like me. The number of times I guessed the colour wrong between blue and purple, or yellow and green and brought Chunky or Tiny to the wrong place is far too many. If the colour problem isn't addressed with patterns or something, this is the next best thing.
Oh, I’ve never thought or considered that being a problem before but I guess that would be a big issue. I feel like at that point maybe just making all collectables collectable by all characters would be a better solution to that problem, but I wouldn’t know.
I never even thought of that. Not having this sort of issue tends to make me not think about how it can help with it. But I'm glad it helps those who have issues like color blindness
Nobody thinks about the colourblind. "Accessibility" is just an excuse to make games boring, easy, and compliant with the politburo. Colourblind support should be implemented into all GPUs these days and yet it's not.
I just had the idea that to make the animation feel more natural, Diddy Kong gives you a "Tag Dial" as soon as you meet him, which is a piece of tech sneakily stolen from K. Rool, which is basically a portable Tag Barrel. Up on the d-pad to activate it, down on the d-pad to confirm which kong you want to play as, and left and right to cycle between the kongs.
In a potential remake of DK64, I think maybe you could just turn it into an ability wheel like in Zelda. Hold down the Tag button and then point toward the Kong you wanna switch with.
They could make it a pickup that you can gather, basically 1 free tag barrel. That way you have to work at least a little to have one in inventory, but it leaves some of the challenge of getting the right character to the right place since you wouldn't be able to spam it
The big problem in this game is how scrambled the placement of common collectibles is - yellow bananas behind an area opened by Chunky, pink ones in a room built for Lanky and so on. There are 3 ways this could be fixed. Tag anywhere is the easiest fix, but also the most problematic. It doesn't address the root issue of having to switch between Kongs all the time to collect items. It also hurts some of the interesting challenges involving picking the right Kong for the next task. The second option is making all common collectibles universal. Small bananas and coins will be collectable regardless of color, and most ammo-coded switches can be activated by any Kong. This is a much better fix in my opinion. It keeps the tag barrel relevant, and forces the player to learn how to navigate properly with all Kongs. The third option is to reorganize the collectibles. Make yellow bananas only appear on or near the paths you have to take to collect DK's Golden Bananas, reds only for Diddy's Golden Bananas ect. This would be the change with the most authentic feel. It would also be the hardest to implement, and most subjective. Of the three I think I would prefer the reorganized collectibles if done right, but common collectibles would be the easier one to do right.
This is why I can't really stand the whole "just push a button!" fix because it makes the game feel arguably more pointless. At that point just, make all collectibles collectable by anyone, don't make the player feel like every percieved problem is solved. I'd be 1000% for a Reorganized Collectibles hack whether it involves strictly reorganizing it or straight up recreating the maps.
I'd say do the second and third at the same time. If you want to go after a trail of colored collectibles with a specific Kong then you can, but the color would indicate, "Hey, this is going to be a path for this other Kong" and if you have to backtrack it's kind of your own responsibility due to not swapping before going down that path. It also would mean that you have the option of opening up the level in the dev intended manner and then traversing it with whichever Kong you want to go and get all the collectibles. The only issue this does have is that the color-coded collectibles does inform the player of who they should be playing and if you can pick them up with any Kong while using a tag barrel system, it does mean that you could collect all the trails of bananas, then go back to that location and say, "So, where did it lead me?" Maybe a way to solve this would be to have a less vital, respawning collectible such as ammo as Kong-specific and having the areas where you're roadblocked without having a specific Kong have some of their ammo near them, basically like sticking a flag in the ground.
Trust me, the game feels spectacular with tag anywhere, while keeping it close to the original. It doesn't need different placement to be a 10/10. Tag anywhere is enough
Reorganized collectibles would be like every level has the progression of Creepy Castle where it starts with DK bananas, the a tag barrel and Lanky bananas, then a tag barrel, etc
I do think the reorganized collectibles is the correct answer here. The problem with the game is a fundamental flaw in how collectibles are placed throughout the levels. I do think the game should let you swap characters at more points, but rearranging collectibles would be what I'd deem the proper fix.
Hot take: They should've remade this game for the Nintendo Switch instead of another Donkey Kong Country Returns port, they could do so much better with our Monke, he deserves much better
Honestly I am glad they are making the HD version. It brings the content of both the Wii version and 3DS version together on Nintendo's latest hardware. I wanted to play the Wii version but emulating it is a mixed bag.
I don’t understand people complaining about not being able to tag anywhere, the game offers an adequate amount of tag barrels and it was never much of a problem to me. People love to hate on this game, but it will always hold a special place in my heart.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the game, that’s great! We all have those games we love for nostalgias sake or something like that (mines pokemon black lol). But I do think the tag mechanic in dk64 is the games biggest problem. The channel “Press A!” Made a video about dk64 and it’s very insightful. Give it a watch if you haven’t already!
Same here. DKC3 isn't my favorite but the atmosphere being so bright and sunny after DKC2 was the perfect antidote. They make the perfect duology. And also DKC1 is there.
Yeah ngl I always thought dkc3 was the best of the trilogy. And yeah tropical freeze is easily the best in the series. Which is insane to say because I thought dkc3 was peak for my entire life until tropical freeze released.
@magicjohnson3121 if you use the modded version you get on dk64 randomizer for vanilla gameplay you can easily do it in like 4-5. They let you skip cutscenes, faster Animation for warps, faster Troff and scoff and you get a great overlay for what kong you switch to when pressing left or right.
The "killed platformers" always bugged me. I would say it killed collect-a-thons. In the ps2 era, the next generation, we had ratchet & clank, jak & dexter, and the sly cooper games. Between the three, just on the ps2, we had 10 games. Each had collectables, but they were a secondary objective, not the main. You progressed simply by completing the level.
It's not even accurate to say it killed collectathons. DK64 was the very next platformer game Rare released after codifying the genre with Banjo-Kazooie. DK64 came before Banjo-Tooie, Conker, Spyro 3, and the entire flood of B-grade platformers focused around collectibles which came out for the sixth generation, the likes of Ty, Tak, the Pac-Man World sequels, etc. The collectathon genre still had years of life in it post-DK64.
@creativename1673 so I just googled it. A total of 2000 in the game, used just a bit over 1500. At that amount should we count it as a collectable or currency? It very much became a currency for the later games. If it's a collectable then Jac 1 is the exception to the rule that proves it.
Here’s an idea to keep tag barrels useful: Use the same health mechanic from the original DKC trilogy. Each Kong can only take one or two hits before dying and becoming unplayable, so you have to swap to another Kong. If you lose all Kongs it’s game over, but you can bring them back by hitting a tag barrels.
...I don't know, then you'd bring back the same problem (not having a kong you need suddenly, and needing to return to some random spot elsewhere) and also it would make the level design prone to locking you into having to restart when it's not carefully planned out...
It wouldn’t be that different from other DKC games where sometimes you would need another Kong to reach a secret. It would give you incentive to stay alive and play better. You can program the game in such a way where tag barrels wouldn’t be in inconvenient places or get locked off when you need them. There are ways to make it work.
@@favioferreira8921 Plus there can be more barrels more often. If you're out of barrels where you've been, just forge ahead & find the next one, then you might only need to backtrack very slightly to use the retrieved Kong.
@@umbaupause But doing it that way would offer that feeling of disappointment as a punishment for not playing well and encourage you to spread your kong usage a bit more evenly I think it's a great idea
Honestly I think that most minimal fix for this game would be to just make all coins and bananas yellow and let every Kong collect all of them. That way switching is not 100% free so that you can segment off parts of the level for Kong-specific challenges, but don't force the player to constantly switch just for collecting junk.
It's same feeling with all these new games being open world. If you have unlimited time then it's the best thing in the world. But, when you actually have to do adult things those games including dk64 is a chore nightmare.
Yeah, I never had a problem with it as a kid. It's only years later on the Internet when I read about all the supposed flaws the game has, and I attribute it to adults playing the game years later and expecting a different experience than what the game offers. But the point, to me, was that you explored all the levels up and down various times, so it doesn't get irritating when you have to backtrack the same level with another kong. In fact, that's what collect-a-thons are about: you have to explore the same place time and time again until you find the secret item you were looking for. It seems to me that the modern expectation is to beat a level in one sitting collecting everything and never come back to it again, and that's fundamentally a different experience than what the game is trying to be.
The one thing I think this mod is missing is a quick animation for swapping between Kongs like there was in the DKC games. The instantaneous switching is a bit jarring. A sped up version of the Bananaport animation could work, or even just a quick puff of smoke.
Fun Fact: the “dopamine hit” you mention for collectathons is the exact reason that actor Nick Offerman quit video games forever. He found Banjo Kazooie too addicting!
To fix the tag problem I would had implemented a new device that Cranky Kong invented. A bracelet that is a teleporting device. When activated, the kong would jump and do a slap in the air and the other kong would appear connecting the high five in the air. Similar to Dk Country 1. Being a bracelet it would be easy to model into each character and wouldn't obstruct the visuals of the kong. If you hold the button L a UI will appear that shows what kong to choose. Each direction would be to other kongs and if no direction is pressed, Donkey Kong would be chosen (5 in total). This would make the tagging fast and fun to do. Like make a unique intro and leaving animation for each kong. For example Chunky's "Dont pick me" or something more dramatic he could be doing on the air while the "fade in" of the teleportation is happening and at the end he would get slapped in the head or in the butt instead of a normal high five and if he is the one leaving he would be swiping his forehead as relief after high five. For changing between Diddy and Tiny they would do a normal high five but at the end they rotate to each other and they start finger pistoling each other. Just adding personality to each interaction.
Ooh, I love this idea! Keeps the cool high-5 from before, we'd still get to see Chunky's silly reactions, & there'd be even more personality & learning how each Kong gets along with one another. That's really slick & immersive. 😎
One funny glitch this mod introduces is that if you enter a minigame barrel while flying as Diddy, and the minigame is in a maze (For example in Crystal Caves), you can change kongs before finishing. If you do, the kong you finish as will fly like Diddy. The most funny is how Chunky can fly with such small jetpacks, and that Lanky's blowpipe is vertical. All kongs can shoot their projectiles, and the effect stops when they land. Also, you can change kongs after Chunky picks up rocks or other heavy objects, and it works. All kongs can carry the rock around, throw it or place it down.
Am I the only person who prefers to go through the whole stage with one kong, collecting everything for that kong in the level, then go back to the start and switch to another kong and do the same, getting 100% one kong at a time?
It's surprising they didn't have a buddy system like in the DKC series. Then the tag barrels could have been used to pick two buddies at a time. Then you just hit the tag button like previously to switch which character you're using. I think that would have worked very well.
I honestly do not think the tag barrel is a problem, ive 100% the game and there is other issues that were way more annoying than the tag barrel, i found the music and the animations enjoyable enough to not mind jumping into it. PLUS the feeling id get of using the Kongs to help the others is awesome! I think the fact that you HAVE to endure parts of a level as a certain kong amd having to remember what other kongs you need to bring there made me feel more immersed, like a certain kong goes on a mission, sees whats needed and reports back to the rest so the appropriate kong heads out. I never needed a guide to complete this game and honestly what kept me comong back was the desire to explore the levels again with each kong again. Idk how else to explain it but if anything id say adding a few more barrels if anything but the complete removal of the barrels would remove a part of the game that makes it fun to explore 🤷♂️
personally I would have the kong change into a barrel and for character selection rotate it with the pictures of the kongs to make it look more official
Doesn't feel as clean playing it. If you use the mods on dk64 randomizer without randomized you get an overlay to the kongs you can swap to, faster ports, faster banana collecting. Its pretty much the perfect way to play the game
My issue with this MOD is that it just begs the question "why not just make one Kong able to use all the techniques? I think the way you make this MOD work better is: -give each character a smaller and separate health pool -make health pick ups more scarce -allow the game to continue even if all but one Kong gets knocked out -replace the Tag barrels with old school "DK" barrels that revive all knocked out Kongs in your party when you break it That way you still utilize the old mechanic while not making the point of having multiple characters obsolete
This would be very interesting to combine with the DKC mechanich of throwing, etc. The Kongs would use each other to get to places. With mutliple of them, you could choose which ones fit the best scenario. MAybe you need Chunky to throw Tiny very jar, or maybe Lanky will blowdart tiny somewhere fast and precise. Maybe Diddy can use his jetpack to lift tiny to a platform, etc. Idk about reviving them all with the tagbarrel, but maybe 1 at a time? Like maybe it would show their face above the barrel, and then change every second or so, similar to how certain powerups would change in DKC lik eat the end of levels trying to get the red-balloon to get an extra life.
@ the only problem with that last one is since there's limited tag barrels in each section, there's a chance one is dead until you exit and reenter the level. Since you normally have access to all of them normally and there's so many collectibles, I feel like reviving all of them, may be with less than full health, would make more sense in this game
This sounds very unnecessary and impossible to implement. You dont really die from health at all the way the game is right now. So giving you 5x the health is just dumb. There are instakills, so would that just revive you with all kongs . Play the mod. Itd perfect the way it is, its even better if you remove the dance
actually, there was a game that is pretty much shows that you can do the tag barrel. BUT! not like all of the kongs in one barrel, but it's a tag barrel that switches to one kong that is there cause of how that section was spacifically design for that kong. and that game was called "40 Winx" In that game, you platform through levels and in certain levels, you find some powerup that transform you into different forms like caveman, ninja, jester, princess, and robot. But the difference in between on how dk64 and 40 Winx does it is that it is structured in a way that you need to use them to progress. it's not just "hey I'm going to use the d-pad to switch to the ninja outfit to cross that path and get the ninja-colored collectable and then switch to robot to fly to that ledge to collect the main collectable, but the level design is built like for that powerup and keep the flow going. And I think that this way of improved game design makes much sense for Dk64
How you said that removing things or overhauling mechanics would make it a completely different game, I feel the same way about the FF7 remake. There was so much taken out from the original, and as a huge fan of the PS1 version (had a huge influence on my childhood and way I viewed video games) I couldn't help but notice how much was gone from the remake. I honestly consider it a different game, like crisis core. Don't get me wrong, I love the look and lore of the remake, but I was really disappointed with how much was gone and changed. Awesome video btw, you have a new subscriber
While I do think that being able to switch Kongs on the fly would fix a lot of the grievances... ...damn, it is such a boring way to fix it. Might as well only have one Kong that can do everything, if the multiple characters aren't gonna be used in an interesting way. It's kinda like a simple double jump in a typical B-grade platformer: fine and serviceable, but there's probably more interesting alternatives. Why not try to, I dunno, incorporate the buddy mechanic from the DKC games? From a Tag Barrel, instead of only bringing one Kong with you... you bring two! Being able to flip through two Kongs could already help (unless you brought the completely wrong ones to an area, fair), and it could open some potential for throwing your partner at other spots or so. Another idea I saw was having special Tag Barrels that let you swotch to a specific Kong, the one required for the area... but making getting to that barrel part of a puzzle. Either something any Kong can do, or can only be done by the Kong that was already able to unlock the whole area to begin with. Maybe even have pairs or trios of barrels, switch around the Kongs to have them work together for a puzzle or battle. Or y'know, maybe you could make the colored bananas be collectable by any Kong, and they have an arbitrary score multiplier when collected by the respective Kong. Maybe even have Golden Bananas collectable in multiple different ways, so you could end up collecting more bananas with your favorite Kongs... kinda like how you can see which levels you beat more often with one Kong or another in the other DKC games.
If I remember right, the people who made this mod were developers for the randomizer mod, so it makes sense why it's on the safe side. I like your ideas they sound fun. My problem with the tag barrel in the original is that the application felt very lopsided with it wavering from interesting design opportunities to just being a nuisance at times. Always felt like it never struck the right balance. Tag anywhere is mostly fine, but it's a shame that you can cheese some of the times the barrel was used to its full potential.
While this does alleviate the pacing of DK64, it's kind of a band-aid fix that ultimately, at least partially, removes the point of multiple kongs being playable. A gate Chunky breaks down to reveal a banana for Diddy is just a bad design regardless of how you switch to Diddy. The real solution is one that would take a wholesale and complete retooling of the game and its levels. That would be designing the levels and collectables so that each kong can get all of their items in a level on their own. Along with this I would remove the ability to see other kongs' collectables when not playing as them. The main route being littered with collectables for each Kong is actually fine in theory because if you play through the level as one Kong 100%, you can then play though it with another 100%. If the Tiny bananas weren't visible when playing as Diddy, the urge to switch at every collectable you can't get would be removed, and the levels can make the most of their space when exploring them fully as each character.
I think this would be more annoying than the base game in the end. As you would have to complete every level 5 times just to check. While seeing a collectable you cant collect is annoying, it also gives you inspiration to do more.
The tag barrel should only be used after the first time unlocking, letting players ‘see’ their personality… but after that one swap, the swap anywhere should work anytime!
As a kid I never worried about the collecthaton issue, I didn't care to complete it. I liked how much it felt of an upgrade over Mario 64 in regards to what you could do and the amount of things you could do kept me happy, same thing with Banjo Tooie who always had something to offer other than collecting X amount of stars/jiggies/bananas.
Change the coins to everyone can collect, no character specific ones. So you have to experiment with which kong is able to get the coins. And be able to switch between kongs wherever.
2:20 I could be misremembering this, but I believe I saw a video that showed how much collection was needed to 100% DK 64 vs other collectathons, and just the bananas alone out numbered most if not all of the entirety of Mario Odyssey. Not counting Blueprints, or the Big Bananas needed to advance, or anything else; there were more of this game's "coin" equivalent than the entirety of every resource Mario Odyssey requires you to collect. Which is impressive, if not frustratingly redundant. Edit: Just looked it up, it was "Why People Hate Donkey Kong 64" by PressA! 5:50 oh yeah that one.
This video feels a little hyperbolic. I don't recall it being controversial back in the day based on journalists or my own peer group. I 100% it when I was 16 when it released. It was definitely too big a collectathon but I don't think people who reviewed it at the time would have reviewed it more friendly had you been able to switch on the fly. Sure that would have been nicer but considering the day it released some poor game design elements were going to exist regardless.
...It's funny to see that so many people have pitched in other solutions to the problem of the tag barrel, and most if not all of them seem to sound good on paper, but reveal flaws after thinking about them for a while. It truly is a puzzle of game design, this title.
This was one of my favorite games to play as a kid, couldn't tell you how many times I went back and replayed it for 101% and always made sure to get all 500 regular bananas per level. Everyone always says how there's too many collectables, but honestly I've always wished there was more. People talk about the collectables like balloons and clumps don't exist, like you're going around picking up 3,500 individual bananas, and it feels a bit disingenuous. It's neat to see someone made a tag anywhere version, that honestly seems like it would have fit well in the in-game cheat options instead of like infinite coins or something.
I imagine if DK64 were to be remade, this is how they'd do it. Removing the Swap Barrels, and having it be a quick button press helps the game's pacing
This is a really good analysis of how certain utility mechanics can make or break an otherwise amazing game (menus are one of my main gripes in general)
Great video! Yeah, I replayed Donkey Kong 64 with this mod and it definitely helps alleviate a lot of the tedium to constantly hop into the Tag Barrels. Even as a kid, I found the constant switching of Kongs just for a few collectibles to be absolutely pace-breaking. I mean, this game has other major design flaws, but this is one of the biggest!
The easyness by which you can take certain kongs to areas they should take more time getting to on their own kinda feels like something the devs would've intended if the swapping mechanic was originally in the game, like a reward for thinking outside the box. I could see them putting a sort of "no swapping" obstacle in some places to not allow it literally everywhere, but all in all it does seem like straight up better design.
That's what I'd love. Obviously the molders can only do so much, and certain areas do block swapping, but if this game gets remade I'd love for when you're exploring those open areas for free swapping, but then in certain parts block it so that only one kong can shine
I just went through the game recently (vanilla) and it took me 20 hours to beat, and you got through it in 16 with the tag anywhere system. I play this game every few years so its not new to me, but you were able to knock off 4 hours off my playtime.
Good game design: Notes/coins/rings guide you to where you're supposed to go next and help you track where you've already been. DK64: Backtrack to a switch barrel and hope you don't forget what you were doing or else the level is now permanently ruined/marked.
You convinced me this is actually a good thing. I played this game way too much over the years, and upon learning about this hack, I had my doubts, thinking it would make the game too easy. Maybe I should also try it myself!
@ColeTheFactGuy completely understandable. Also DK's voice in DK64 is forever etched in my mind. It's hilarious, alongside starfox 64 entire voice cast. I love it.
@7:56 I personally think its because platformers are the #1 genre that always focuses on how they can make the movement actually feel fun and good-- even if it isn't uniquely designed movement or movement that is utilized often. Meanwhile, FPS titles and other games use movement moreso as a means to an ends-- which is fine, but it's not fun and often leads to generalized issues that many people run into.
Had no idea this mod was a thing! I beat DK64 during the pandemic, and I've always been interested in 101% but the idea of it made me sick. This mod gives me new hope that I can still enjoy the completion experience! Thanks for sharing, I'm actually excited to replay DK64 now.
This is one of the best improvements on this game I've ever seen. If I were to add something more, aside from other improvements mentioned like reorganizing the collectibles or making them universal for every Kong (both great) I would add a better difficulty curve. I mean, there are 201 Golden Bananas in total but with only half of them you can finish the game, I think that we could make it a bit more like in BK, where the used Golden Bananas for opening a World are used and you need to collect again (changing the necessary GB for each world accordingly so you don't need every GB for finishing) or making the required GB for each world higher. That way you feel like you have a better reason to spend time on each world aside from getting the 100%
There's also a mod that lets you use the tag barrel from anywhere, which I think is a more fitting approach to tackling the problem - you don't miss out on the kong reactions that way!
The common thing with the main collectible in Mario, Banjo-Kazooie and DK64 is the fact that they're yellow colored. When making Randomizer seeds for Dk64 on emulation, you can change the colors of the collectibles which is nice. Don't know if you can for Mario 64 and BK. That's also another thing, Randomizers. It further enhances the experience as if you were playing those games for the first time, adding to the replayability and as of now, you can play the DK64 Randomizer in mirror mode! That should be interesting for sure.
I'm so glad this mod exists. The only thing they could add to perfect it is making the warps work more like in Banjo-Tooie. Oh, and have them fix Beaver Bother.
I really liked your opening on integrity when it comes to mods and remakes. It reminds me of Sonic Adventure. The base DC game, while dated in many ways, I still think plays great. But then came Adventure DX, an updated remaster that while adding some extras fundamentally changed/broke the original feel. So here comes DC mods to make it play like the original, while keeping in those extras and adding alot more!
I'm personally back and forth on whether I'm happy with that intro as I don't think it fits the video as a whole, but I'm glad you were able to relate to it. And I totally agree. I've played the dream cast mods on Steam with full screen and its really amazing. As in I will literally never go back to DX despite it being the version i grew up with. Like playing it for the first time all over again
My speculation: I feel like Nintendo is worried about selling this gane again for the same reason they seemingly haven't ported Pokenon RBY to the switch, that being that ratings boards have gotten more strict even in the last few years, so they'd probably get a slightly higher rating because of something like the "gunplay" in the same way pokemon would get a higher rating for its Game Corner They seem to think games won't sell well if they're a slightly higher rating.
I think another way to fix Dk64 would to make most of the collectibles accessible to ALL Kongs.( But then again, being able to switch Kongs anywhere is way better and more convenient)
The classic game design logic behind the tag barrel was to challenge the player to get to that area with that Kong as some areas would break the challenge. However that is the only reason why newer games rarely do not have a switching system but a character select system of challenge mode system. This game also had some shot calling done by Nintendo who still uses the character select or in some cases the "Luigi Tag Barrel." But modders are free to adapt the game play to their preference. If you gave a free tag system to a kid, they would possibly use the wrong character for a boss fight and be frustrated by that while more mature players would have an easier time figuring things out.
I assume it breaks the design in various places. For example: maybe you're supposed to get somewhere with Lanky and it makes for a challenge, but if you can just swap anywhere, you instead hover with Tiny and then swap to Lanky only when it's absolutely necessary, bypassing the whole challenge aspect of it. It makes it faster and less frustrating, sure, but what's the point of playing the game then.
This seems like a bandaid fix that doesn't resolve the underlying problem. Ultimately, I think this is a level design issue. The tag barrels themselves were fine, it's down to how the levels and Kong-specific collectibles were laid out. With some very different level design, the tag barrels wouldn't have been a problem. For a mod this makes sense, but I guess what I'm saying is that it _shouldn't_ have been like that from the beginning, but rather the levels should have been designed better.
That means a lot. I've never expected the growth I have now, as I make this content for me, and it's the type of content I'd want to watch. I can't really express how much I appreciate the support
Don't forget that there were massive hardware issues that also held back DK 64. They had to ship it with the expansion pack included in order for it to run. The argument can be made that was a folly of Rare's own making as well, but it's worth taking into account.
@@nintendo-relatedchannel5810It was, but they didn't actually have to use it according to newer insights in optimizing N64 ram. They appearently just chose development speed over compactness.
This is essentially the original method DKC used. This game could really use the following: -Make each Kong have one health -Have each Kong present (if alive) like DKC games -Reorganize pickups to be more segment-appropriate and not random -If you have each Kong, exploration is a breeze, but the level only has one-use tag barrels that only regenerate upon level exit Without completely redesigning the game fundamentally, aspects like these (if ever possible) seem like it'd breathe new life into the play experience, without tarnishing existing pacing, while making it feel extremely familiar to how DKC balanced difficulty!
And for tag barrels, when finding one and jumping in, you use the original game's method of choosing the Kong you need revived for the circumstance you decide the need is for! Gives more agency to the player, how careful they are, and again keeps the difficulty more in-line with how Country did it
The tag barrels where never really my main issue, there was always one nearby whenever you needed it most anyway. It was more the barrel minigames that where the bigger pain to put up with, especially whenever I had to go through some other challenge to unlock them anyway, only to be forced to play a minigame that barely works properly like Beaver Bother and the Fly Swat one. If there was a mod that skipped those entirely or replaced them with their intended golden banana's, I'd be much more interested in playing through the game again. I think this was one of the few things Super Mario 64 DS did right, and that was making the minigames an optional side thing instead of a forced extra challenge in order to get the stars in the main game. Imagine trying to get a Star in Rainbow Ride, but before that, you have to play a gambling minigame with Luigi first..
I have fond memories of this game as a kid, and I absolutely 100%’d the game. I haven’t played it since, so there’s a really good chance it just aged really poorly, but I don’t ever once remember having an issue with the swap barrel mechanic.
I will probably try this mod, but I’ve played this game so many times in full and never thought the tag barrel was an issue. I feel like this game suffers from the Nickelback Effect, where everybody thinks it’s bad because somebody told them it’s bad. I swear nobody had issues with this game 20 years ago.
I feel like if they ever bring back Donkey Kong 64, they should change the gameplay to be similar to Crash Bandicoot in most of the levels. Turns it into more of an action game with smaller tighter levels. With instant tagging of course.
My ideal experience would just be making colored bananas collectable with any Kong. Most of the excessive backtracking to the tag barrel is for the colored bananas. You cut that, you still have a much smoother experience without any overpowered effects on the level design. You would have to rework Banana Medals. Maybe you get one for a certain amount of overall bananas instead of then being specific to each Kong?
The only reason why the tag barrel was chosen was due to technical limitations of the N64 at the time. If this game had been made today it would’ve had instant switching. Like GTA 5.
BRUHHHHHH, this game took me at least 150 hours to complete as a kid, the fact that you did it in 16 is fkn WILD. I haven’t picked it up again since then, unlike Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie which I’ve probably 100%’d like fifty times; this mod is absolutely gonna bring me back to to Kong Island, TODAY.
I honestly don't mind the tag barrel but I understand why people don't like it. I completed this game with the tag barrel and honestly loved every second.
Also Matt's video is anything but, he explains why the game had a relatively long Dev time and cut content (thus reusing bosses) and the expansion pack rumour It wasn't to fix a bug, it was to add dynamic lightning It's really good, I recommend it
Cool! Like I said I don't actually know what exactly those videos said as I didn't want it to affect what I said here. I tend to enjoy Matt's videos though so I'll probably watch it soon
It is amazing how much an activity like that can affect how much we enjoy a game. It seems small but becomes such a pronounced effect on the experience. You mentioned Mario for the DS and funnily I think by making the other characters introduced this exact issue of the tag barrel. You need to go back to the rooms to switch characters and stars that were originally always collectable were now broke up among all the characters.
the factory was always my fave level even with swapping. This would definitely improve the game a lot, but I still feel like it was a step down from other platformers like Banjo. Biggest problem I had was I came to feel like the level design was not that creative, and missed the more platform and exploration type aspects of other platformers. In games like Banjo and Mario there were often collectibles just sitting out for you to find by exploring the level and finding your way into hidden areas. it felt like there was more actually exploration and the joy of discovery. In DK 64 meanwhile it felt like they fell back too much on the design of "hey, here is a building with 5 doors, one for each kong, just open the door with a stomp, or shooting the trigger, or playing an instrument, with each kong and go in to get a banana" (or more likely a bonus barrel). Also came to dislike the minigames, they reused certain ones too often, and also disliked how the minigames are disconnected from the main gameplay. I enjoyed it more when minigames existed in the levels themselves, such as the tile flipping game with Lanky in one stage, or the slide races, but jumping into a barrel to play mario party style games kind of took me out of it. And the mini game barrels also came to feel kind of like a double unlock; you already spent the effort getting to the location of the barrel and then you have to play a game on top of that before you actually get the collectible. the bonus barrels should have been distributed more sparingly, and many of them just made into normal golden banana collectibles.
I think with a change like this, which unfortunately makes the individual Kong collectables make less sense now. The banana bunches behind the cages Chunky punches in the beginning of the video, for instance, no longer really makes sense to be Diddy bananas, as you likely wouldn't be without Diddy at that point, and if you can swap anywhere, it adds a "why does this need to be a different kong collectable?" If someone flipped some of the collectables around so the flow of them makes more sense with the swap anywhere, it'll fit into place even better, but that'll take a lot of analyzing to rebalance. It's not so much a problem in earlier stages where you'd not have the later kongs outside of Diddy and Donkey Kong, and therefore coming back to collect with the new kongs still works, but the flow feels wonky once you have all 5 and the stages after won't need such odd collectable placement like the aforementioned example. They should just be Chunky bananas, swapped with two Diddy bunches from elsewhere that makes sense.
But without the tag barrel, you lose Chunky's hilarious "Pick me, NO DON'T PICK ME!" animation and that is something I cannot abide.
Good point.
Chunky's tag barrel animation is everything to me.
You can still go in there
Imagine if they had both features
You aren't wrong. It's a grave loss
@@ColeTheFactGuy yo, what emulator did you play on?
Something you might not have considered is how much more accessible this makes the game to colourblind people like me. The number of times I guessed the colour wrong between blue and purple, or yellow and green and brought Chunky or Tiny to the wrong place is far too many. If the colour problem isn't addressed with patterns or something, this is the next best thing.
I had this very same issue! Glad to know I'm not alone.
Oh, I’ve never thought or considered that being a problem before but I guess that would be a big issue. I feel like at that point maybe just making all collectables collectable by all characters would be a better solution to that problem, but I wouldn’t know.
Monkeys are probably colour blind too so you were getting full immersion
I never even thought of that. Not having this sort of issue tends to make me not think about how it can help with it. But I'm glad it helps those who have issues like color blindness
Nobody thinks about the colourblind. "Accessibility" is just an excuse to make games boring, easy, and compliant with the politburo.
Colourblind support should be implemented into all GPUs these days and yet it's not.
I just had the idea that to make the animation feel more natural, Diddy Kong gives you a "Tag Dial" as soon as you meet him, which is a piece of tech sneakily stolen from K. Rool, which is basically a portable Tag Barrel. Up on the d-pad to activate it, down on the d-pad to confirm which kong you want to play as, and left and right to cycle between the kongs.
I was thinking about collectible barrel resources that allow you to place a tag barrel ANYWHERE to keep up with the collectathon theming.
In a potential remake of DK64,
I think maybe you could just turn it into an ability wheel like in Zelda.
Hold down the Tag button and then point toward the Kong you wanna switch with.
@@DaNintendudeWould feel like the Country games but more evolved to handle five characters, I love this
They could make it a pickup that you can gather, basically 1 free tag barrel. That way you have to work at least a little to have one in inventory, but it leaves some of the challenge of getting the right character to the right place since you wouldn't be able to spam it
The big problem in this game is how scrambled the placement of common collectibles is - yellow bananas behind an area opened by Chunky, pink ones in a room built for Lanky and so on. There are 3 ways this could be fixed.
Tag anywhere is the easiest fix, but also the most problematic. It doesn't address the root issue of having to switch between Kongs all the time to collect items. It also hurts some of the interesting challenges involving picking the right Kong for the next task.
The second option is making all common collectibles universal. Small bananas and coins will be collectable regardless of color, and most ammo-coded switches can be activated by any Kong. This is a much better fix in my opinion. It keeps the tag barrel relevant, and forces the player to learn how to navigate properly with all Kongs.
The third option is to reorganize the collectibles. Make yellow bananas only appear on or near the paths you have to take to collect DK's Golden Bananas, reds only for Diddy's Golden Bananas ect. This would be the change with the most authentic feel. It would also be the hardest to implement, and most subjective.
Of the three I think I would prefer the reorganized collectibles if done right, but common collectibles would be the easier one to do right.
This is why I can't really stand the whole "just push a button!" fix because it makes the game feel arguably more pointless. At that point just, make all collectibles collectable by anyone, don't make the player feel like every percieved problem is solved.
I'd be 1000% for a Reorganized Collectibles hack whether it involves strictly reorganizing it or straight up recreating the maps.
I'd say do the second and third at the same time. If you want to go after a trail of colored collectibles with a specific Kong then you can, but the color would indicate, "Hey, this is going to be a path for this other Kong" and if you have to backtrack it's kind of your own responsibility due to not swapping before going down that path. It also would mean that you have the option of opening up the level in the dev intended manner and then traversing it with whichever Kong you want to go and get all the collectibles.
The only issue this does have is that the color-coded collectibles does inform the player of who they should be playing and if you can pick them up with any Kong while using a tag barrel system, it does mean that you could collect all the trails of bananas, then go back to that location and say, "So, where did it lead me?" Maybe a way to solve this would be to have a less vital, respawning collectible such as ammo as Kong-specific and having the areas where you're roadblocked without having a specific Kong have some of their ammo near them, basically like sticking a flag in the ground.
Trust me, the game feels spectacular with tag anywhere, while keeping it close to the original. It doesn't need different placement to be a 10/10. Tag anywhere is enough
Reorganized collectibles would be like every level has the progression of Creepy Castle where it starts with DK bananas, the a tag barrel and Lanky bananas, then a tag barrel, etc
I do think the reorganized collectibles is the correct answer here.
The problem with the game is a fundamental flaw in how collectibles are placed throughout the levels.
I do think the game should let you swap characters at more points, but rearranging collectibles would be what I'd deem the proper fix.
The dopamine hit from the main collectable in DK⁶⁴ after a puzzle of some kind is unparalleled because of one sound:
"ooOOOOHHH BA-NA-NAAAHHhhh..."
I have been chasing that dragon for 20 years.
I still say "OOOOOHH BA-NA-NAAh!" to myself (or out loud if I'm home) whenever I grab a banana.
Hot take: They should've remade this game for the Nintendo Switch instead of another Donkey Kong Country Returns port, they could do so much better with our Monke, he deserves much better
this
Honestly I am glad they are making the HD version. It brings the content of both the Wii version and 3DS version together on Nintendo's latest hardware. I wanted to play the Wii version but emulating it is a mixed bag.
Rights nightmare.
Nintendo has a hate boner for the rare ware era of DK in favor of the retro studios stuff
They should or remade it on the 3DS a long time ago when they were making N64 remakes for it.
I don’t understand people complaining about not being able to tag anywhere, the game offers an adequate amount of tag barrels and it was never much of a problem to me. People love to hate on this game, but it will always hold a special place in my heart.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the game, that’s great! We all have those games we love for nostalgias sake or something like that (mines pokemon black lol). But I do think the tag mechanic in dk64 is the games biggest problem. The channel “Press A!” Made a video about dk64 and it’s very insightful. Give it a watch if you haven’t already!
Loving the DKC3 respect. The overworld map was a great addition to the series.
Same here. DKC3 isn't my favorite but the atmosphere being so bright and sunny after DKC2 was the perfect antidote. They make the perfect duology. And also DKC1 is there.
It's so good. Glad I'm finding fans of it from this video
Yeah ngl I always thought dkc3 was the best of the trilogy. And yeah tropical freeze is easily the best in the series. Which is insane to say because I thought dkc3 was peak for my entire life until tropical freeze released.
I grew up with DKC3 on the SNES, but if you guys ever get the chance to try the GBA version, particularly if you're a Dave Wise fan...
2:51 bro they were made of wax, not paper. that's why they melted when he flew to close to the sun!
Only 16 hours for 101% itself shows how much of a quality of life improvement this is, damn
Im a huge mario fan and started playing the dk64 randomizer at some point (which of course has tag). It made it my favourite platformer
16 hours is still very long
@magicjohnson3121 if you use the modded version you get on dk64 randomizer for vanilla gameplay you can easily do it in like 4-5.
They let you skip cutscenes, faster Animation for warps, faster Troff and scoff and you get a great overlay for what kong you switch to when pressing left or right.
The "killed platformers" always bugged me. I would say it killed collect-a-thons. In the ps2 era, the next generation, we had ratchet & clank, jak & dexter, and the sly cooper games. Between the three, just on the ps2, we had 10 games. Each had collectables, but they were a secondary objective, not the main. You progressed simply by completing the level.
But J&D 1 is a collectathon though
@creativename1673 it is also only one collectable, and outside of the secret ending don't you only need like 40 of the 100?
It's not even accurate to say it killed collectathons. DK64 was the very next platformer game Rare released after codifying the genre with Banjo-Kazooie. DK64 came before Banjo-Tooie, Conker, Spyro 3, and the entire flood of B-grade platformers focused around collectibles which came out for the sixth generation, the likes of Ty, Tak, the Pac-Man World sequels, etc. The collectathon genre still had years of life in it post-DK64.
@@DLOFT002 I'm pretty sure it was 70 or something like that, and the collectable is your main way to gauge progress, so I think it counts
@creativename1673 so I just googled it. A total of 2000 in the game, used just a bit over 1500. At that amount should we count it as a collectable or currency? It very much became a currency for the later games.
If it's a collectable then Jac 1 is the exception to the rule that proves it.
4:44 WOAH!! calm down there buddy don't get too extreme with the kong love
07:20
I'm glad my answer of "NUMBER GO UP; NUMBER GO UP" was finally rewarded.
It's a real thing that I feel like a lot of people don't want to admit. But it's true, that number going up is very satisfying and fun
Here’s an idea to keep tag barrels useful:
Use the same health mechanic from the original DKC trilogy. Each Kong can only take one or two hits before dying and becoming unplayable, so you have to swap to another Kong. If you lose all Kongs it’s game over, but you can bring them back by hitting a tag barrels.
Oooh, that's such a natural feeling extension of the old mechanic! I like that! 👍
...I don't know, then you'd bring back the same problem (not having a kong you need suddenly, and needing to return to some random spot elsewhere) and also it would make the level design prone to locking you into having to restart when it's not carefully planned out...
It wouldn’t be that different from other DKC games where sometimes you would need another Kong to reach a secret. It would give you incentive to stay alive and play better. You can program the game in such a way where tag barrels wouldn’t be in inconvenient places or get locked off when you need them. There are ways to make it work.
@@favioferreira8921 Plus there can be more barrels more often. If you're out of barrels where you've been, just forge ahead & find the next one, then you might only need to backtrack very slightly to use the retrieved Kong.
@@umbaupause But doing it that way would offer that feeling of disappointment as a punishment for not playing well and encourage you to spread your kong usage a bit more evenly
I think it's a great idea
Honestly I think that most minimal fix for this game would be to just make all coins and bananas yellow and let every Kong collect all of them. That way switching is not 100% free so that you can segment off parts of the level for Kong-specific challenges, but don't force the player to constantly switch just for collecting junk.
The original version of DK 64 is a lot better when you're a kid with unlimited free time to play it.
It's same feeling with all these new games being open world. If you have unlimited time then it's the best thing in the world. But, when you actually have to do adult things those games including dk64 is a chore nightmare.
Yeah, I never had a problem with it as a kid. It's only years later on the Internet when I read about all the supposed flaws the game has, and I attribute it to adults playing the game years later and expecting a different experience than what the game offers. But the point, to me, was that you explored all the levels up and down various times, so it doesn't get irritating when you have to backtrack the same level with another kong. In fact, that's what collect-a-thons are about: you have to explore the same place time and time again until you find the secret item you were looking for. It seems to me that the modern expectation is to beat a level in one sitting collecting everything and never come back to it again, and that's fundamentally a different experience than what the game is trying to be.
@Dan_Capone this is exactly how I played it too.
The one thing I think this mod is missing is a quick animation for swapping between Kongs like there was in the DKC games. The instantaneous switching is a bit jarring. A sped up version of the Bananaport animation could work, or even just a quick puff of smoke.
I was just thinking that.
I'd settle for a quick poof effect.
Fun Fact: the “dopamine hit” you mention for collectathons is the exact reason that actor Nick Offerman quit video games forever. He found Banjo Kazooie too addicting!
To fix the tag problem I would had implemented a new device that Cranky Kong invented. A bracelet that is a teleporting device. When activated, the kong would jump and do a slap in the air and the other kong would appear connecting the high five in the air. Similar to Dk Country 1. Being a bracelet it would be easy to model into each character and wouldn't obstruct the visuals of the kong.
If you hold the button L a UI will appear that shows what kong to choose. Each direction would be to other kongs and if no direction is pressed, Donkey Kong would be chosen (5 in total).
This would make the tagging fast and fun to do. Like make a unique intro and leaving animation for each kong.
For example Chunky's "Dont pick me" or something more dramatic he could be doing on the air while the "fade in" of the teleportation is happening and at the end he would get slapped in the head or in the butt instead of a normal high five and if he is the one leaving he would be swiping his forehead as relief after high five.
For changing between Diddy and Tiny they would do a normal high five but at the end they rotate to each other and they start finger pistoling each other.
Just adding personality to each interaction.
Ooh, I love this idea! Keeps the cool high-5 from before, we'd still get to see Chunky's silly reactions, & there'd be even more personality & learning how each Kong gets along with one another. That's really slick & immersive. 😎
One funny glitch this mod introduces is that if you enter a minigame barrel while flying as Diddy, and the minigame is in a maze (For example in Crystal Caves), you can change kongs before finishing.
If you do, the kong you finish as will fly like Diddy. The most funny is how Chunky can fly with such small jetpacks, and that Lanky's blowpipe is vertical. All kongs can shoot their projectiles, and the effect stops when they land.
Also, you can change kongs after Chunky picks up rocks or other heavy objects, and it works. All kongs can carry the rock around, throw it or place it down.
Am I the only person who prefers to go through the whole stage with one kong, collecting everything for that kong in the level, then go back to the start and switch to another kong and do the same, getting 100% one kong at a time?
I'm not a psychopath, so no.
@@QrazyQuarian the word you're looking for is masochist.
It's surprising they didn't have a buddy system like in the DKC series. Then the tag barrels could have been used to pick two buddies at a time. Then you just hit the tag button like previously to switch which character you're using. I think that would have worked very well.
I honestly do not think the tag barrel is a problem, ive 100% the game and there is other issues that were way more annoying than the tag barrel, i found the music and the animations enjoyable enough to not mind jumping into it. PLUS the feeling id get of using the Kongs to help the others is awesome! I think the fact that you HAVE to endure parts of a level as a certain kong amd having to remember what other kongs you need to bring there made me feel more immersed, like a certain kong goes on a mission, sees whats needed and reports back to the rest so the appropriate kong heads out. I never needed a guide to complete this game and honestly what kept me comong back was the desire to explore the levels again with each kong again. Idk how else to explain it but if anything id say adding a few more barrels if anything but the complete removal of the barrels would remove a part of the game that makes it fun to explore 🤷♂️
personally I would have the kong change into a barrel and for character selection rotate it with the pictures of the kongs to make it look more official
Doesn't feel as clean playing it.
If you use the mods on dk64 randomizer without randomized you get an overlay to the kongs you can swap to, faster ports, faster banana collecting. Its pretty much the perfect way to play the game
My issue with this MOD is that it just begs the question "why not just make one Kong able to use all the techniques?
I think the way you make this MOD work better is:
-give each character a smaller and separate health pool
-make health pick ups more scarce
-allow the game to continue even if all but one Kong gets knocked out
-replace the Tag barrels with old school "DK" barrels that revive all knocked out Kongs in your party when you break it
That way you still utilize the old mechanic while not making the point of having multiple characters obsolete
This would be very interesting to combine with the DKC mechanich of throwing, etc. The Kongs would use each other to get to places.
With mutliple of them, you could choose which ones fit the best scenario. MAybe you need Chunky to throw Tiny very jar, or maybe Lanky will blowdart tiny somewhere fast and precise. Maybe Diddy can use his jetpack to lift tiny to a platform, etc.
Idk about reviving them all with the tagbarrel, but maybe 1 at a time? Like maybe it would show their face above the barrel, and then change every second or so, similar to how certain powerups would change in DKC lik eat the end of levels trying to get the red-balloon to get an extra life.
@ the only problem with that last one is since there's limited tag barrels in each section, there's a chance one is dead until you exit and reenter the level. Since you normally have access to all of them normally and there's so many collectibles, I feel like reviving all of them, may be with less than full health, would make more sense in this game
This sounds very unnecessary and impossible to implement. You dont really die from health at all the way the game is right now. So giving you 5x the health is just dumb. There are instakills, so would that just revive you with all kongs .
Play the mod. Itd perfect the way it is, its even better if you remove the dance
@
one melon per Kong
If you die, you're spit out of the world you're in
An instakill takes out whatever long you're playing
This is like the system used in the obscure NES game little Samson which rocks btw
Dk64 randomizer is some of the most fun I've ever had with a videogame, and it wouldn't be nearly as good if the quickswitch mod wasn't baked into it.
Tell me more of this randomizer
actually, there was a game that is pretty much shows that you can do the tag barrel. BUT! not like all of the kongs in one barrel, but it's a tag barrel that switches to one kong that is there cause of how that section was spacifically design for that kong.
and that game was called "40 Winx"
In that game, you platform through levels and in certain levels, you find some powerup that transform you into different forms like caveman, ninja, jester, princess, and robot. But the difference in between on how dk64 and 40 Winx does it is that it is structured in a way that you need to use them to progress. it's not just "hey I'm going to use the d-pad to switch to the ninja outfit to cross that path and get the ninja-colored collectable and then switch to robot to fly to that ledge to collect the main collectable, but the level design is built like for that powerup and keep the flow going.
And I think that this way of improved game design makes much sense for Dk64
How you said that removing things or overhauling mechanics would make it a completely different game, I feel the same way about the FF7 remake. There was so much taken out from the original, and as a huge fan of the PS1 version (had a huge influence on my childhood and way I viewed video games) I couldn't help but notice how much was gone from the remake. I honestly consider it a different game, like crisis core. Don't get me wrong, I love the look and lore of the remake, but I was really disappointed with how much was gone and changed. Awesome video btw, you have a new subscriber
Yeah, lost all the charm of the original.
The art style and synthy soundtrack gave it suck a neat atmosphere.
While I do think that being able to switch Kongs on the fly would fix a lot of the grievances...
...damn, it is such a boring way to fix it. Might as well only have one Kong that can do everything, if the multiple characters aren't gonna be used in an interesting way. It's kinda like a simple double jump in a typical B-grade platformer: fine and serviceable, but there's probably more interesting alternatives.
Why not try to, I dunno, incorporate the buddy mechanic from the DKC games? From a Tag Barrel, instead of only bringing one Kong with you... you bring two! Being able to flip through two Kongs could already help (unless you brought the completely wrong ones to an area, fair), and it could open some potential for throwing your partner at other spots or so.
Another idea I saw was having special Tag Barrels that let you swotch to a specific Kong, the one required for the area... but making getting to that barrel part of a puzzle. Either something any Kong can do, or can only be done by the Kong that was already able to unlock the whole area to begin with. Maybe even have pairs or trios of barrels, switch around the Kongs to have them work together for a puzzle or battle.
Or y'know, maybe you could make the colored bananas be collectable by any Kong, and they have an arbitrary score multiplier when collected by the respective Kong. Maybe even have Golden Bananas collectable in multiple different ways, so you could end up collecting more bananas with your favorite Kongs... kinda like how you can see which levels you beat more often with one Kong or another in the other DKC games.
If I remember right, the people who made this mod were developers for the randomizer mod, so it makes sense why it's on the safe side. I like your ideas they sound fun. My problem with the tag barrel in the original is that the application felt very lopsided with it wavering from interesting design opportunities to just being a nuisance at times. Always felt like it never struck the right balance. Tag anywhere is mostly fine, but it's a shame that you can cheese some of the times the barrel was used to its full potential.
@estoystrandom5998 yeah, exactly this!
While this does alleviate the pacing of DK64, it's kind of a band-aid fix that ultimately, at least partially, removes the point of multiple kongs being playable. A gate Chunky breaks down to reveal a banana for Diddy is just a bad design regardless of how you switch to Diddy.
The real solution is one that would take a wholesale and complete retooling of the game and its levels. That would be designing the levels and collectables so that each kong can get all of their items in a level on their own. Along with this I would remove the ability to see other kongs' collectables when not playing as them. The main route being littered with collectables for each Kong is actually fine in theory because if you play through the level as one Kong 100%, you can then play though it with another 100%. If the Tiny bananas weren't visible when playing as Diddy, the urge to switch at every collectable you can't get would be removed, and the levels can make the most of their space when exploring them fully as each character.
I think this would be more annoying than the base game in the end.
As you would have to complete every level 5 times just to check.
While seeing a collectable you cant collect is annoying, it also gives you inspiration to do more.
The tag barrel should only be used after the first time unlocking, letting players ‘see’ their personality… but after that one swap, the swap anywhere should work anytime!
I can't bear the camera jumping the romhack introduces
Camera jumping? I recall hating this MOD... Maybe that was why? I can't picture what "camera jumping" means, tho.
@Schwarzorn camera breaks fluidity and instead keeps jumping around in such a way that is too distracting to even play at all
As a kid I never worried about the collecthaton issue, I didn't care to complete it. I liked how much it felt of an upgrade over Mario 64 in regards to what you could do and the amount of things you could do kept me happy, same thing with Banjo Tooie who always had something to offer other than collecting X amount of stars/jiggies/bananas.
Change the coins to everyone can collect, no character specific ones. So you have to experiment with which kong is able to get the coins. And be able to switch between kongs wherever.
5:50 nobody claims this game killed 3d platformers. Its collecta-thons people accuse of dying
2:20 I could be misremembering this, but I believe I saw a video that showed how much collection was needed to 100% DK 64 vs other collectathons, and just the bananas alone out numbered most if not all of the entirety of Mario Odyssey. Not counting Blueprints, or the Big Bananas needed to advance, or anything else; there were more of this game's "coin" equivalent than the entirety of every resource Mario Odyssey requires you to collect. Which is impressive, if not frustratingly redundant.
Edit: Just looked it up, it was "Why People Hate Donkey Kong 64" by PressA!
5:50 oh yeah that one.
This video feels a little hyperbolic. I don't recall it being controversial back in the day based on journalists or my own peer group. I 100% it when I was 16 when it released. It was definitely too big a collectathon but I don't think people who reviewed it at the time would have reviewed it more friendly had you been able to switch on the fly. Sure that would have been nicer but considering the day it released some poor game design elements were going to exist regardless.
...It's funny to see that so many people have pitched in other solutions to the problem of the tag barrel, and most if not all of them seem to sound good on paper, but reveal flaws after thinking about them for a while.
It truly is a puzzle of game design, this title.
Big fan of DKC3 huh? where DKC2 is my person favorite. Its nice to see DKC3 get some love. I love DKC3, I think its under appreciated
Dk64 was made by the team who made dkc3. Dkc1 and 2 team made banjo kazooie and tooie
@@tophario1492 Love all of it. they all are great
I’m glad we have circled back to being allowed to enjoy QuickTime events instead of mini games again.
i think that, despite the steaks of the story, this game was just made to be played for months. a massive world to explore and breath me in
The Nintendo coin part of the DK arcade game gives you 2 lives
Something about DK’s “Yyyeah…” when pulling out the coconut gun is hilariously sadistic to me
This is an option in the randomizer too. It's awesome. I think you can still use the trash barrel, too, if you want
This was one of my favorite games to play as a kid, couldn't tell you how many times I went back and replayed it for 101% and always made sure to get all 500 regular bananas per level. Everyone always says how there's too many collectables, but honestly I've always wished there was more. People talk about the collectables like balloons and clumps don't exist, like you're going around picking up 3,500 individual bananas, and it feels a bit disingenuous. It's neat to see someone made a tag anywhere version, that honestly seems like it would have fit well in the in-game cheat options instead of like infinite coins or something.
For some reason im not able to save on the mod? Anyone else having this issue and have a fix?
me too i just f5 it
I imagine if DK64 were to be remade, this is how they'd do it. Removing the Swap Barrels, and having it be a quick button press helps the game's pacing
This is a really good analysis of how certain utility mechanics can make or break an otherwise amazing game
(menus are one of my main gripes in general)
Awesome video essay! Keep up the great work
The only thing missing is some kind of sound/animation when changing characters. That would perfect this
Great video! Yeah, I replayed Donkey Kong 64 with this mod and it definitely helps alleviate a lot of the tedium to constantly hop into the Tag Barrels. Even as a kid, I found the constant switching of Kongs just for a few collectibles to be absolutely pace-breaking. I mean, this game has other major design flaws, but this is one of the biggest!
The easyness by which you can take certain kongs to areas they should take more time getting to on their own kinda feels like something the devs would've intended if the swapping mechanic was originally in the game, like a reward for thinking outside the box. I could see them putting a sort of "no swapping" obstacle in some places to not allow it literally everywhere, but all in all it does seem like straight up better design.
That's what I'd love. Obviously the molders can only do so much, and certain areas do block swapping, but if this game gets remade I'd love for when you're exploring those open areas for free swapping, but then in certain parts block it so that only one kong can shine
Mystical Ninja 64 let you change characters at will like this.
I just went through the game recently (vanilla) and it took me 20 hours to beat, and you got through it in 16 with the tag anywhere system. I play this game every few years so its not new to me, but you were able to knock off 4 hours off my playtime.
Good game design: Notes/coins/rings guide you to where you're supposed to go next and help you track where you've already been.
DK64: Backtrack to a switch barrel and hope you don't forget what you were doing or else the level is now permanently ruined/marked.
You convinced me this is actually a good thing. I played this game way too much over the years, and upon learning about this hack, I had my doubts, thinking it would make the game too easy. Maybe I should also try it myself!
That DK mouse pad was wild LMAO
Fun fact, not a joke. Needed a mouse pad that was easy on the wrist, saw that, bought it because it was funny. Fantastic mouse pad though
@ColeTheFactGuy completely understandable. Also DK's voice in DK64 is forever etched in my mind. It's hilarious, alongside starfox 64 entire voice cast. I love it.
@7:56 I personally think its because platformers are the #1 genre that always focuses on how they can make the movement actually feel fun and good-- even if it isn't uniquely designed movement or movement that is utilized often.
Meanwhile, FPS titles and other games use movement moreso as a means to an ends-- which is fine, but it's not fun and often leads to generalized issues that many people run into.
Had no idea this mod was a thing! I beat DK64 during the pandemic, and I've always been interested in 101% but the idea of it made me sick. This mod gives me new hope that I can still enjoy the completion experience! Thanks for sharing, I'm actually excited to replay DK64 now.
Icarus had wings made of beeswax, feathers, thread and leather.
This is one of the best improvements on this game I've ever seen. If I were to add something more, aside from other improvements mentioned like reorganizing the collectibles or making them universal for every Kong (both great) I would add a better difficulty curve. I mean, there are 201 Golden Bananas in total but with only half of them you can finish the game, I think that we could make it a bit more like in BK, where the used Golden Bananas for opening a World are used and you need to collect again (changing the necessary GB for each world accordingly so you don't need every GB for finishing) or making the required GB for each world higher. That way you feel like you have a better reason to spend time on each world aside from getting the 100%
There's also a mod that lets you use the tag barrel from anywhere, which I think is a more fitting approach to tackling the problem - you don't miss out on the kong reactions that way!
The common thing with the main collectible in Mario, Banjo-Kazooie and DK64 is the fact that they're yellow colored. When making Randomizer seeds for Dk64 on emulation, you can change the colors of the collectibles which is nice. Don't know if you can for Mario 64 and BK. That's also another thing, Randomizers. It further enhances the experience as if you were playing those games for the first time, adding to the replayability and as of now, you can play the DK64 Randomizer in mirror mode! That should be interesting for sure.
I'm so glad this mod exists. The only thing they could add to perfect it is making the warps work more like in Banjo-Tooie.
Oh, and have them fix Beaver Bother.
I really liked your opening on integrity when it comes to mods and remakes.
It reminds me of Sonic Adventure. The base DC game, while dated in many ways, I still think plays great. But then came Adventure DX, an updated remaster that while adding some extras fundamentally changed/broke the original feel. So here comes DC mods to make it play like the original, while keeping in those extras and adding alot more!
I'm personally back and forth on whether I'm happy with that intro as I don't think it fits the video as a whole, but I'm glad you were able to relate to it. And I totally agree. I've played the dream cast mods on Steam with full screen and its really amazing. As in I will literally never go back to DX despite it being the version i grew up with. Like playing it for the first time all over again
My speculation: I feel like Nintendo is worried about selling this gane again for the same reason they seemingly haven't ported Pokenon RBY to the switch, that being that ratings boards have gotten more strict even in the last few years, so they'd probably get a slightly higher rating because of something like the "gunplay" in the same way pokemon would get a higher rating for its Game Corner
They seem to think games won't sell well if they're a slightly higher rating.
I think another way to fix Dk64 would to make most of the collectibles accessible to ALL Kongs.( But then again, being able to switch Kongs anywhere is way better and more convenient)
The classic game design logic behind the tag barrel was to challenge the player to get to that area with that Kong as some areas would break the challenge. However that is the only reason why newer games rarely do not have a switching system but a character select system of challenge mode system.
This game also had some shot calling done by Nintendo who still uses the character select or in some cases the "Luigi Tag Barrel." But modders are free to adapt the game play to their preference.
If you gave a free tag system to a kid, they would possibly use the wrong character for a boss fight and be frustrated by that while more mature players would have an easier time figuring things out.
I assume it breaks the design in various places. For example: maybe you're supposed to get somewhere with Lanky and it makes for a challenge, but if you can just swap anywhere, you instead hover with Tiny and then swap to Lanky only when it's absolutely necessary, bypassing the whole challenge aspect of it. It makes it faster and less frustrating, sure, but what's the point of playing the game then.
Since you can rotate through the kongs.. ADD KRUSHA!
This seems like a bandaid fix that doesn't resolve the underlying problem. Ultimately, I think this is a level design issue. The tag barrels themselves were fine, it's down to how the levels and Kong-specific collectibles were laid out. With some very different level design, the tag barrels wouldn't have been a problem.
For a mod this makes sense, but I guess what I'm saying is that it _shouldn't_ have been like that from the beginning, but rather the levels should have been designed better.
I keep forgetting you have barely 6k subs man, these videos are always a blast to watch, you deserve way more for the effort you’re putting in lol
That means a lot. I've never expected the growth I have now, as I make this content for me, and it's the type of content I'd want to watch. I can't really express how much I appreciate the support
Don't forget that there were massive hardware issues that also held back DK 64. They had to ship it with the expansion pack included in order for it to run. The argument can be made that was a folly of Rare's own making as well, but it's worth taking into account.
That’s incorrect. It was for lighting.
@@nintendo-relatedchannel5810It was, but they didn't actually have to use it according to newer insights in optimizing N64 ram. They appearently just chose development speed over compactness.
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger is actually great though.
Don't ask about the sequels.
Facts
Never played this game, but 100% willing to play this mod instead of the original
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know Tropical Freeze was so good. I'm gonna have to play that.
Agreed, the mod that let's you swap kongs with a single button press made DK 64 instantly better to me.
This is essentially the original method DKC used. This game could really use the following:
-Make each Kong have one health
-Have each Kong present (if alive) like DKC games
-Reorganize pickups to be more segment-appropriate and not random
-If you have each Kong, exploration is a breeze, but the level only has one-use tag barrels that only regenerate upon level exit
Without completely redesigning the game fundamentally, aspects like these (if ever possible) seem like it'd breathe new life into the play experience, without tarnishing existing pacing, while making it feel extremely familiar to how DKC balanced difficulty!
And for tag barrels, when finding one and jumping in, you use the original game's method of choosing the Kong you need revived for the circumstance you decide the need is for! Gives more agency to the player, how careful they are, and again keeps the difficulty more in-line with how Country did it
Do you know if the mod works with other languages of the rom?
DK64 is like the Iron Boots in the Water Temple section in Zelda OoT. But on cocaine edition.
The tag barrels where never really my main issue, there was always one nearby whenever you needed it most anyway.
It was more the barrel minigames that where the bigger pain to put up with, especially whenever I had to go through some other challenge to unlock them anyway, only to be forced to play a minigame that barely works properly like Beaver Bother and the Fly Swat one. If there was a mod that skipped those entirely or replaced them with their intended golden banana's, I'd be much more interested in playing through the game again.
I think this was one of the few things Super Mario 64 DS did right, and that was making the minigames an optional side thing instead of a forced extra challenge in order to get the stars in the main game. Imagine trying to get a Star in Rainbow Ride, but before that, you have to play a gambling minigame with Luigi first..
I have fond memories of this game as a kid, and I absolutely 100%’d the game. I haven’t played it since, so there’s a really good chance it just aged really poorly, but I don’t ever once remember having an issue with the swap barrel mechanic.
17 hours for the game blind is honestly incredible. That was my time after beating the game once or twice and knowing how to do anything.
I never change. I stay with one kong until I’m done collecting everything for one kong then I change kong. Made the h game so much better for me.
I will probably try this mod, but I’ve played this game so many times in full and never thought the tag barrel was an issue. I feel like this game suffers from the Nickelback Effect, where everybody thinks it’s bad because somebody told them it’s bad. I swear nobody had issues with this game 20 years ago.
I feel like if they ever bring back Donkey Kong 64, they should change the gameplay to be similar to Crash Bandicoot in most of the levels. Turns it into more of an action game with smaller tighter levels. With instant tagging of course.
My ideal experience would just be making colored bananas collectable with any Kong. Most of the excessive backtracking to the tag barrel is for the colored bananas. You cut that, you still have a much smoother experience without any overpowered effects on the level design. You would have to rework Banana Medals. Maybe you get one for a certain amount of overall bananas instead of then being specific to each Kong?
The only reason why the tag barrel was chosen was due to technical limitations of the N64 at the time. If this game had been made today it would’ve had instant switching. Like GTA 5.
BRUHHHHHH, this game took me at least 150 hours to complete as a kid, the fact that you did it in 16 is fkn WILD. I haven’t picked it up again since then, unlike Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie which I’ve probably 100%’d like fifty times; this mod is absolutely gonna bring me back to to Kong Island, TODAY.
I beat the game normal a few times over the years. I’m playing this mod now for the first time and I love it.
lol who needs guides for this game? Just have played it as a kid so much you still remember everything 20 years later.
I honestly don't mind the tag barrel but I understand why people don't like it. I completed this game with the tag barrel and honestly loved every second.
You still need tag barrels for boss fights and the pig/elephant room.
Would personally prefer a cooldown on the swap to make it feel like an intended part of the game but yea, this is a huge win
Also Matt's video is anything but, he explains why the game had a relatively long Dev time and cut content (thus reusing bosses) and the expansion pack rumour
It wasn't to fix a bug, it was to add dynamic lightning
It's really good, I recommend it
Cool! Like I said I don't actually know what exactly those videos said as I didn't want it to affect what I said here. I tend to enjoy Matt's videos though so I'll probably watch it soon
This game is the true direct ancestor of Genshin Impact.
It is amazing how much an activity like that can affect how much we enjoy a game. It seems small but becomes such a pronounced effect on the experience. You mentioned Mario for the DS and funnily I think by making the other characters introduced this exact issue of the tag barrel. You need to go back to the rooms to switch characters and stars that were originally always collectable were now broke up among all the characters.
One mod i want to see with this game is making the arcade games easier (especially OG Donkey Kong).
the factory was always my fave level even with swapping.
This would definitely improve the game a lot, but I still feel like it was a step down from other platformers like Banjo. Biggest problem I had was I came to feel like the level design was not that creative, and missed the more platform and exploration type aspects of other platformers. In games like Banjo and Mario there were often collectibles just sitting out for you to find by exploring the level and finding your way into hidden areas. it felt like there was more actually exploration and the joy of discovery. In DK 64 meanwhile it felt like they fell back too much on the design of "hey, here is a building with 5 doors, one for each kong, just open the door with a stomp, or shooting the trigger, or playing an instrument, with each kong and go in to get a banana" (or more likely a bonus barrel). Also came to dislike the minigames, they reused certain ones too often, and also disliked how the minigames are disconnected from the main gameplay. I enjoyed it more when minigames existed in the levels themselves, such as the tile flipping game with Lanky in one stage, or the slide races, but jumping into a barrel to play mario party style games kind of took me out of it. And the mini game barrels also came to feel kind of like a double unlock; you already spent the effort getting to the location of the barrel and then you have to play a game on top of that before you actually get the collectible. the bonus barrels should have been distributed more sparingly, and many of them just made into normal golden banana collectibles.
I’ve 100% this game twice in my life and seeing how much time this saved is amazing
I think with a change like this, which unfortunately makes the individual Kong collectables make less sense now. The banana bunches behind the cages Chunky punches in the beginning of the video, for instance, no longer really makes sense to be Diddy bananas, as you likely wouldn't be without Diddy at that point, and if you can swap anywhere, it adds a "why does this need to be a different kong collectable?"
If someone flipped some of the collectables around so the flow of them makes more sense with the swap anywhere, it'll fit into place even better, but that'll take a lot of analyzing to rebalance. It's not so much a problem in earlier stages where you'd not have the later kongs outside of Diddy and Donkey Kong, and therefore coming back to collect with the new kongs still works, but the flow feels wonky once you have all 5 and the stages after won't need such odd collectable placement like the aforementioned example. They should just be Chunky bananas, swapped with two Diddy bunches from elsewhere that makes sense.