Addressing Misogyny
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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▼ Timestamps ▼
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0:00 - Discussion starts
0:47 - What does it mean to address the problem
3:03 - Addressing Indirectly
4:42 - The Power of Listening
6:23 - What can be done about it
9:01 - Being born a woman is life on hard mode
11:34 - Reddit Post "My husband is a moderator..."
13:50 - What being a woman is like
18:13 - How to do your part without overdoing your part
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The worst part about this stuff is that I don't go round thinking of myself as a "woman" (although I do identify as one) - I am just a person in my head, just like every other person - and the psychological whiplash when you are reminded that someone thinks you're not a person, or at least not like them, is horrible. I think some men just don't realise (or care) that women are practically identical to them in terms of what it's like to live in our heads - we are just shaped by different experiences.
Thats horrifying
The fact that i share 99% of my personality with some random girl
100000% this!!!
You put it into words perfectly. Being a person feels like it should come first. We all just want to be accepted and understood, that's a pretty universal human experience.
Exactly
I think culture and society causing a notable divide in the common experiences that women and men go through just makes this issue worse.
I think many men wrongly attribute common life experiences that are more common to women than men (such as it being more socially acceptable for a woman to show emotional vulnerability and, as a result, usually having an easier time developing a supportive social circle) as if its due to them simply being born female and not because of stereotypes that culture and society continually enforce.
“When you’re nice to women, they don’t owe you shit” love that
I think the “seeing your mom everywhere” analogy is partially accurate in the sense of how annoying these encounters are, but it doesn’t capture how unsafe we feel and how some men are predatory.
When I was 12, an old man in this church I used to go to with my parents put his hands on my shoulders and made comments about how he was in love with me. Luckily I was smart enough to stay far away from him and nothing else happened but i still shudder at that.
I was at a party once and this drunk coworker of mine was getting really angry and yelled at me when I didn’t reciprocate his moves on me, he was a big guy and his behavior was making me very nervous.
I was followed by a crackhead near my college campus for several blocks, another crackhead started yelling at me once when I wouldn’t acknowledge or talk to him.
I had to stop going to my favorite local coffee shop because there was a much older man (late 40s to 50s) who approached me, talked about how he saw me here often, kept asking me very personal questions, including if I came around here with my parents, my age etc.
When I take public transit, I’ve learned to sit on the seat closest to the aisle to avoid creeps sitting next to me, and if the bus is full and I see another woman, I let her sit next me or I sit next to her.
Online creeps are easy to handle, all you need to do is block them. But you can’t block random people with bad intentions in real life.
That must be very difficult to deal with. Hopefully you can find a nice partner to go with you everywhere and protect you.
@@jackmak2980 I don't think she needs a chaperon, lol. These just shouldn't be regular experiences for women. It's gross, it's unfortunate, it's unacceptable.
@@jackmak2980 WTF no. The problem is we shouldn't NEED someone to "protect us". We need men to stop treating us like dirt
@@boylumbago1590 No, women are sick of having to deal with men's shitty behaviour. It's time you all started taking some responsibility instead of putting the default responsibility on us. Did you even listen to his video!?
Yikes, that's awful. I'm sorry you've had to deal with all that. That would put me on edge as well.
I'm a mostly het guy and once had the experience of a gay male friend who was much stronger than me repeatedly make drunken/high advances despite my insistence that I wasn't interested. That was a big wake up call for me as to how awful undesired male attention can be.
I'd like to adapt something I've heard Dr K say that I'm not sure he would approve of, but this is how I think about my own desire. It's not my fault I experience desire the way I do, but it is my responsibility to still be a decent person.
Imagine what you said, but it is with literally every human on the planet...
That is me all of the time.
@@_shadow_1 fucking hell…
@@_shadow_1 lot of people can't understand what the slightest hint of "no" mean it's mind boggling
@@_shadow_1 i get that it night be hyperbole BC that's how it feels and that sounds reasonable, just wanted to say that, like Dr,K mentioned in the vid, I thenk the majority of men are not like rhis
exactly it is that way, imagine that just because you have x thing down there ot happensnto you. When you are just anotjer humam being
While the mom analogy perfectly describes how annoyed women get, it doesn't even begin to describe the levels of fear
Yeah it's like that but if your mom was abusive and stalked you and touched you without consent
@@Itugen88 wtf.......... LOL
You have never met my mom lol
Jokes aside I think the best way for a guy to understand is to have a sister, a girlfriend, or female friends in general tell him about how bad it feels to be subject to stuff like this. I have a really close female friend that gets cat-called pretty frequently throughout the week, and every time she tells me about it I just feel like grabbing a bat and breaking the dude's skull with it. If it feels that bad for me I can't even begin to comprehend how bad it feels for women who get treated this way
It also doesn't address the power dynamics. In these encounters women have more power.
@@AD-cc7bjWhat Ironglaciers is saying is literally true. Rejecting a guy, going home to him, or worse, bringing him into your home, is genuinely dangerous.
However, I don’t agree with their message here as I understand it.
Identity based compensation or accommodation in these interpersonal settings gets weird when you generalize it.
Not going to lie, that reddit thread of the guy spending all day moderating subreddits is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time and perfectly fits my preconceived notion of what reddit mods are like in real life..
Is it not a meme/copy pasta? I've seen the exact same post with the same wording other places that's why I say that lol
Yeah, that post wasn't upvoted because it was relatable it was upvoted because it's funny.
@@OOKIEDOKIEYes, that post was upvoted a lot mostly because it was funny.
Misogyny is a problem, I'm just pointing out that this post was very vaguely related to misogyny... it was more about everything else...
The fact that a woman puts up with a bungler of a man who lives off her money and messes around on reddit the whole day, is feminist self-acceptance at its finest. He accepts he's a failure and she accepts herself for fostering a failure. And she's "liberated" too, at last the roles got reversed and the woman is on top. Yay. Way to go.
I'm pretty sure it has the upvotes not because it's a shared experience but because it's a stupidly tragically funny situation
To this analogy with your mom being everywhere: At least you recognize it is her, when you see or hear her. The reality is: Your mom is a shape shifter and half of the people you might might be you mom instead. You can’t tell from the beginning, sometimes it takes days or weeks for this one person to reveal themselves as your mom and you want to point them out for others to see, but she only reveals herself, when you are alone, so you have nothing to prove.
I always am reminded of how male homophobes will say they don't want to be friends with gay men because they "don't want to be hit on", when asked why they say because it's unwanted attention, then go harass a woman in a bar and tell us to "take it as a compliment". It's ironic even
Edit: I was reading some comments and a lot of people there didn't understand what I mean. Hitting on a woman once and then leave if she says no is not harassment. The dudes that keep pushing nonstop and trying to guilt her into responding positively are the ones harassing. I can see how you could have thought I'm one of those people that doesn't understand what harassment is, but I meant what I wrote.
It wouldn't be exactly ironic unless they're hitting on lesbian people
Mhhh so this is what first world western white people problems are like , I see.
Those are bottom 80% men who have unrealistic opinion and confidence in their own looks. It's only a compliment to women when the guy is good looking.
@@CyberPunkBadGuy I know right, harrasment, what a first world problem.
@@scoutbane1651 yeah especially when everything is considered harrasement because your soceity and womn succesfully defamed and placed a falseimage of men as evil and oppressors when reality couldnt be far from the truth.
they should have been living in arabia or something.
19:18 This reminds me... My aunt in the 70's was attacked and almost raped by a man, she was like 18 or sth. Then this other man found them and saved her, but right after saving her he went "Can I get a kiss for saving you?". She was like no fuck off I'm basically traumatized and then he followed her home. Once home, she told my grandfather what happened and he punched the guy and he never came back.
Jesus Christ that’s a scary thing wow… no words tbh
There’s a scene in ride to hell Retribution where the main character saves a woman from being raped and she rewards him with sex and it grossed me out but I literally thought that was impossible for someone with that line of thinking to exist out in the real world! Like how can you be in the mood even just witnessing that 🤢
That story reminds me of when NPR reported a jewish holocaust survivor´s account of being rescued by an American soldier who then demanded sex. She wondered how he could even desire her because her skin was hanging off her bones. I think she confused desire for entitlement.
Something similar happened to me. Ghosted an ex who was terrible to me. He stalked me with one of his friends. Wouldn't stop until I got on of my male friends to curse him out. That same male friend who helped me out wound up doing the same thing to me later and tried gaslighting me and harassing me with a community. All because both were rejected by me and that I enforced boundaries.
@@ImNotImpressed01 bruh that's fucking messed up
The closest I ever got to understanding how women feel like was one seemingly ordinary day. I was on my way back from work to a bus stop when some young lady stopped me and asked if I could accompany her on her way in a different direction because there was some creepy guy standing behind a tree and there was nobody walking around this particular alley. I had no problem with that so I did walk with her and only parted when we reached some crowded street. I felt so deeply uncomfortable that day. It never occurred to me to ever be worried about my ordinary walk to or from work, never mind being kidnapped and raped. But there really was a creepy guy behind a tree that day, probably with a knife in his pocket. I had nothing to defend myself and I'm not a fighter, if he wanted to mug me I'd likely panic and give up. I felt vulnerable like I never did before. I actually bought pepper spray for self-defense a couple of days later. It's so messed up that half of human population has to live in potential fear because the other half has dangerous individuals driven by predatory instincts.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing, and thank you so much for accompanying that woman even though you were afraid.
Thank you for helping
Thank you!
Wtf, why would a random guy be dungerous lol
i care about this issue so much that i sat through 22 minutes of Dr K pronouncing misogyny like that
LOL IM GLAD IM NOT THE ONLY ONE ...
My-sog-o-nee
IKR
I'm near certain it's because he was raised in Texas, he says it like a Texan would but with a stereotypical American accent so it sounds weird. Same with when he says yall, I take it he needs to be this way for patients.
@@mussdem I'm a Texan and I say it the normal way
Man this is the first time someone held a misogyny speech and I actually felt like a human and not a "girl"
"I'm married to a reddit mod and..." found your problem lady
how did a reddit mod even talk to a female? That's the real mystery
@@spbspb2413 using female instead of women isn't very respectful just FYI. If you're wondering why, it's because it's the language used to describe animals and there is a word for the female human which is woman. And the whole usage of it started with incels who were actively trying to be derogatory towards women
@@ellealine4159 thank you. That irks me as well.
Lol
@@ellealine4159 yeah true.. id go even further and say females are being disrespected even when being called "girl" or so, because it infantalizes them. Too many small niche societal things that show the oppression females face.
The mom analogy is useful except if it's a real-life interaction there's also the constant background awareness that she might murder you if you say you didn't do your laundry. And it's a real fear because for your entire life, everyone around you has been warning you that moms sometimes kill their kids for not doing their chores, or looking like the kind of people who didn't do their chores, and it's your responsibility to make sure that every time you run into your mom, she'd better know immediately that you did your chores. And also there are frequent news stories about this happening, and every guy you know has at some point in his life felt at least a little threatened by his mom's behavior.
excellent rephrasing. i don't get why it's so hard to understand that we can be & have been murdered just for saying "no" to a guy on a date - even if he seemed perfectly nice. and that's just one component of fear in this hideously complex machine. people act like we're "overreacting" or being "paranoid". women *do* need to go about life with a necessary degree of paranoia just to stay alive. it's so frustrating to live this daily & have the tribulations of your entire gender written off regardless
These were my exact thoughts when hearing the analogy! It’s not just annoying, there’s fear involved.
@@violetvalentine999 That's pretty easy, if you're a decent human being you don't expect this kinda shit to happen. If you're not walking around looking to assault, murder and rape and also haven't even seen any of these things happen before, how would you know what that feeling is like? All you get to see is people lecturing you and telling you that your group (and by extension you) is the problem. That your group is way too pushy, but somehow still expected to make the first move. You also never get to feel what getting unwanted attention feels like because you never get any to begin with.
Unless it's happening right in front of you, you're only being told there's a problem out there and you can never understand and never do something about it, regardless how much you want to, and you're just being put in the same bucket as rapists and murderers while you're at it.
That's exactly why it's being ignored so much.
There's a movie I want you to watch. It's called Chapak. Based on a true story. A 30 something man gets rejected by a 7th grader who's friends with his sister so he pours acid on her face. That's the backstory. The women grew up and was having trouble finding employment, last time I checked.
Edit: if you aren't afraid of being murdered, one worse, raped/mutilated by every woman you come across, you aren't living the female experience. Shit this is morbid.
@@violetvalentine999 I think the issue men have, is women pretending that men never feel worried about being stalked by an insane girl. I've had one former friend literally murdered by his wife, and several other friends with serious stalking issues, many of which included serious property damage. At the end of the day, it is not every man's fault that you feel afraid of all men because of the actions of a minority. It's the exact same argument that racists use for black people and crime, and it's just as bullshit.
I was just trying to sell my skirt on Facebook Marketplace and the "girl" I was selling it to asked for photos of me wearing it to gage the size instead of asking for the dimensions. Like weird but ok whatever, but then "she" asked to buy the pantyhose I was wearing in the photo. I said no.. and after she agreed to buy the skirt, and I gave her my address for pick up, she asked to pay over $200 for my pantyhose, and that she would buy my underwear every week. I checked her profile and all her 5 photos were uploaded on the same day (fake account). Now I fear for my safety because there's some creep that wants my panties and knows where I live. Honestly would this ever happen to a guy?
Also I've sold several things on FB market place and never gave out my address until literally this ONE TIME because my boyfriend (very experienced seller) kept making fun of me that I insist on meeting in public because it wastes time. So the one lazy day I agree to meet at home, THIS SHIT HAPPENS.
Holy yikes that's disgusting
I'm honestly so sorry you had that, when thoit question that's a horrible person trying the trick individuals.
Hahahaha this is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh!
@@scottandrews947 hilarious?
@@scottandrews947 god your life must be sad
@@KD-ou2np What makes you think that?
"Be a decent human and then move on with your day." Thank you, Dr. K.
what is decency? its whatever civilization decides. its just another tool of subjugation. believed to be for the good and believed to be for the worst.
@@isaiahsimmons5776 To a certain degree I think morality is decided by civilization/society but my own personal idea of decency is when you internally care about other people's well-being and you externally act to help them in some way. There are all kinds of exceptions to this. I think you can be decent and not help everyone all the time. That would be impossible; I just mean that you have the tendency or the inclination to help others. (Also, hello, and happy holidays.)
@@isaiahsimmons5776 Also if you disagree with my understanding of Decency please know that I respect your ideas/beliefs about it and that it's okay for us to disagree. I didn't reply because i wanted to argue. I just thought I'd say hi and give my two cents.
@@RavenKing11 ok good point
This is confusing to me. So, I do interact in the world that way, just be decent and move along when it comes to women, but because of that, I don't have any women as friends, who I didn't meet through guys who were already my friends.
For example, one of my best friends I met at the science center, just talked with him randomly, we talked for a bit about some of the exhibits. I talked about biking, he was interested in getting back into biking, so exchanged numbers, and went biking that weekend. While biking talked about bord games, and I went with him to his friend group to play some games. Years later that's my friend group, and a group of us go hiking, biking, ect.
I wouldn't have started talking to a random girl like that, or if I did I wouldn't have asked if they wanted to go biking with me, because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Basically taking the "be decent to women and move along". But I don't have female friends who aren't dating/ex of my male friends, and I have never tried to date anyone. I guess that's OK, I've learned to live with it, but it would be nice to have a woman in my life, seems like my male and female friends in relationships enjoy it... If women just want men they don't know to be decent and move along, I have no idea how I would ever make new female friends, let alone date.
It's really confusing.
As a gay guy and am therefore the target of men’s attention- God Damn can men’s attention be intense. And that attention I get is mostly exclusive to gay spaces. Women have to deal with it everywhere. And not to mention that I don’t feel unsafe in these scenarios because I’m a strong guy. I have a deep respect for women and how they have to interact with men. And god knows all the stories I have heard from female friends. And my male friends have less of such stories.
From a woman, thank you for this comment :)
For some reason, folks think I am gay (not sure why, but it's not a big deal). Whenever I am flirted with in that context, it's very confusing and hard to manage. It's usually well intentioned, but it's just a very different form of interaction that is much harder to escape than female flirtation.
Not gonna lie, it's helped me handle my emotional output more when it comes to relationships. It's good to have a perspective like that.
About the attention, to be fair, it's also biology at work. Thinking back as a teen, I just stupidly kept thinking about women for no reason.
Now that I am alot older, actually women are just another human being, there isn't any need to get overly excited nor do anything impressive.
Just like how you would engage activities and interests with someone of the same gender, it's just comfortably hang out and chill will do.
Exactly, you never know if the interaction will be friendly or escalate because you’re seen as a means to an end. It’s terrifying! Thanks for sharing your story.
Thank you for your comment!
If only people could understand that every other person is just as (or even more) complex of a humanbeing as themselves, we'd eliminate a lot of problems. This way of thinking would allow for more acceptance and compassion.
This is why I can never get behind anonymous insults/hate trains/even unironic "ratio culture". Anytime I feel like saying something rude, I consider what they might be going through, how it could impact them, and if what I want to say is ever worth it (it never is). Anonymity is never an excuse for being an asshole.
I fully agree with what you've said but the pedant in me won't move on until I've pointed out that if one person is more complex than another then by definition not everyone is as complex as them lol.
The term is called "Sonder"
Had a friend tell me that term.
It means the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own
I've always considered myself a pretty empathetic person (might also be a bit of ego), but upon learning that concept, I started to become more understanding that everyone has their own share of problems and complexities in life that's just as valid as mine and anyone elses.
Ive gotta disagree.
I believe that vast majority of us understand this, it's just people move to fulfill their own selfish desires. Whether it be stealing jewelery or volunteering at a homeless shelter. Our actions are an attempt to validate and feel better about ourselves.
Its kind of like veganism. Most people can understand why eating animals can be considered cruel, but the reason most people still partake is because they don't want to deal with any of the negative if not eating meat. Their selfish desires align more with the good feelings of being able to eat meat, than to limit the suffering of other sentient beings different than themselves.
If people don't desire being understanding and compassionate to others as a virtue, then their behavior won't change. How you convince people entrenched in their own beliefs, struggles, and desires to take on a more beneficial selfish framework is beyond me
@@egusisoup1826 i think youre close. I believe people know that people live complex multifaceted lives but that its still a very difficult concept to wrap your head around and truly understand. mainly because our brains are made to function on auto-pilot, which in turn makes it so that we try to think as little as possible, so trying to sit down and think about how someone else has 24 hours in a day and spends it all is something that you kind of have to do consciously and intentionally.
For example, I imagine this is what the majority of people experience, is that when I'm having a conversation about somebody I'm not thinking about if they're having a good or bad day unless they explicitly tell me they are having a bad day. The general assumption is that no news is good news, but when dealing with strangers that same function doesn't apply, so its hard to completely matrrialize as an idea
I do agree with a lot of the things Dr K is saying, but as a woman, sometimes it’s not just the assholes who get tossed around that are the problem. I’ve met many “good” guys, nerdy, wholesome, etc. who have still very much internalized some of the expectations of our gender norms. Men who just assume they are smarter or their opinions matter more. It’s a kind of entitlement of moving through the world that I have never felt in my life. Again, not saying that all men are bad, just that we all have blind spots.
Yeah, I'm totally sure that you don't believe in any gender roles and never have expectations of men specifically.
@@jamesmcdonnell2455 We can all work on our screwed up expectations--it's not mutually exclusive. That doesn't make what M Becker has to say any less valid.
Thank you! this is what I thought was missing as well. Misogyny is in everyone, including us women and the 'good guys'
@@tandem863 sorry, i think i used the wrong phrase… misogyny isn’t in us, it’s imposed on us!!!
>Men who just assume they are smarter or their opinions matter more
How much of this is just men being more direct, assertive, and confident? Men and women often communicate differently, so part of that may be your perception but not necessarily what's really going on.
The "nice guy" thing is probably what gets me the most. The "I was nice to you, you owe me friendship now. We don't need to sleep together (yet), I care about your feelings."
I just need men to understand how patronizing this is.
I asked a guy friend of mine to imagine his gay friend talking to him like that. He was disgusted.
GEE I wonder why?
Like you got friends
@@keylanoslokj1806 I'm sure she has friends. What? Can a woman not be friends with someone unless she's fucking them or something?
I don't think you understand
"I asked a guy friend of mine to imagine his gay friend talking to him like that. He was disgusted"
Why do you feminists use "gay" instead of "girl" when making counterarguments like this? Is it to make them look homophobic? so weird
@@michikatsutsugikuni4096 because men are stronger so there is a physical threat involved for you when you say no. most men dont understand that until it comes to other men. they have never been desired yet by someone that can force them. but rape can happen to anyone. women who are sexual predators are just less obviously dangerous so they fly under the radar
I'm a girl and while I haven't been in situations that are too uncomfortable, I do have to worry about things like "Is someone going to follow me again?" Because I've been followed even in groups of people before, and some men that I've met just don't understand that women need to watch out for more things and consider more things when we go out. So I appreciate this video. It's so frustrating when you're telling someone that you're afraid to walk outside because you don't want to be followed, or kidnapped, cat called, etc for just being a girl and they don't understand and think that you're the stupid one for worrying.
@Man of the Rain Yup some men who doesn't know this would say: "Well it's not THAT bad." They don't know, and they don't want to understand. It sucks indeed.
Thank you for the perfect example of how we live life on Hard Mode: Needing to worry about strangers following you around is considered a minor inconvenience. Just let that digest.
Either this person is so accustomed to be stalked by strangers whenever they leave their house that they no longer consider it to be an abnormal experience, but a minor inconvenience- or they have good reason to believe that significantly more uncomfortable experiences are pervasive enough that they need to use a disclaimer.
Checking behind your shoulder is such a real thing, though. I didn't really get it when I was a guy, but when I transitioned into a woman I started feeling the "stares", started experiencing all the creepy shit that some men can do, and started looking over my shoulder like that, too. And I'm 6'1 and stronger than your average woman; I can't imagine how smaller, more vulnerable women feel.
I'm 17 atm and I'm terrified of going out by myself. Crime in general is quite common in my area and, despite almost reaching the point of being a shut-in, I've been catcalled next to my mom twice. I've never walked in the street without sb else. Out is scary
Really depends on place and time tho, im a guy and have these exact feelings if im in a dangerous area at night. Similarly to you i have also been attacked/almost attacked several times by men on the street. I think this is definitely more of a womens issue, but women seem to forget that men experience a similar thing. Hell ive basically been catcalled by dudes on the street to fight them... life isnt puppies and rainbows for men out here either
I did have to admire his opening statement where he correctly identified his own blindspot! He believes it's not an issue and gives a bunch of reasons why, so therefore he recognizes he should treat the post seriously.
That being said, I think his argument about being a woman is on hard mode is a little weak. I think it's more compelling if the attitudes of the way women are treated in chat were addressed. It's like we're not real people.
I live an empowered life, in a relationship where I don't have the default responsibilities he describes, although society does still expect that of me. But I can come on healthy gamer gg twitch and find plenty of comments that view women as NPCs. I understand why though. I think their viewpoint of women is why they are here seeking help.
Like women should be treated with respect not because of the existence of FGM and rape culture, but simply because we're human beings, full stop. We aren't a different species.
"Like women should be treated with respect not because of the existence of FGM and rape culture, but simply because we're human beings, full stop. We aren't a different species."
And that's how it should be for everyone and with no exceptions.
I think he brought on the hard mode and default responsibilities arguments because he's overviewing women collectively rather than individuals. Obviously there are based people like you that don't default, but for most of the world including his own family and upbringing that's how it is. Not saying your point is bad, rather that 's just where he was coming from. Going over misogyny in twitch chat would've been good agreed, rather than him giving it as yet another example of mom nagging.
As far as your last point, yeah I wish everyone treated female humans with the same respect as well... fellow people
@@hungrymusicwolf I think some people make an exception to that when someone does horrible things like rape or murder
@@Amaling but it is harder for women. Factually. Women have to worry about their safety more than men do. Women have had to fight for rights, equality, and respect. And still do fight. Naturally this may not pertain to all women, but as it stands between men and women; women exclusively have had these challenges.
It’s not to try to separate you, categorize you, or elevate your position, simply acknowledging the societal gap.
@@Riomasa I don't think you understood what I was actually discussing, I was only saying that Dr K was looking statistically rather than case to case. So I'll just state that I agree with you and leave you to it
In our house, the default responsibility of a clogged toilet falls on whoever had the big ass turd that clogged it in the first place.
lol
I have followed this channel for a while and it has been super helpful. I just decided to check out the subred, and as a woman I lasted an entirety of two days. Already been told several times to leave, and I had my experience completely discounted and shut down. I know not everyone in the community is like that, however I was surprised that the hateful comments toward me were not refuted by others.
I have to second the other women commenting there that the "mother analogy" was really good, but it only accounts for like 30% of the problem because it doesn't include the fear that this person who appears everywhere might actually kill or commit sexual violence toward you.
If you actually want women to be able to participate in this online community, it might be helpful if there was a zero-tolerance toward replying directly to women in a hateful and misogynistic way. For all I know, this is already a policy, but from my short visit, that definitely did not seem to be the culture.
I've been playing online games with voice chats for years and pretty much 99% of the players are men. When a woman joins the lobby/ match I would say almost every time there is at least one dude who acts like an asshole. I remember a couple of times when that did not happen and it was on Left 4 Dead where a match only has 4 players max. so he odds are different
I've played games with voice chat for a long time too, and I've also transitioned into a woman since. I used to just kind of blend in and do well on voice chat, but now that my voice sounds feminine I get harassed just about every time I open my mouth. It gets really old being asked about my genitals, being told the same "make me a sandwich" tier jokes, and being accused of fishing for white knights and simps just for speaking. I just want to warn you about the spy that's about to backstab you, for fuck sake
as a woman I don’t play many online games (unless it’s with friends ) because I’m literally terrified of voice chat and it makes me extremely anxious. if they started telling me I suck at the game I know they unfortunately would be right because im scared to join and practice more so it’s like a looping :( plus I feel like I would just be “proving” them that girls can’t play which is worse for other women.
problem is playing games with teenagers being the main target audience. ive never seen it in games with a more mature playerbase
i feel like the problem in video games is that most ppl dont talk too women very often so it´s like a special occasion for them, it´s always "omg are you a girl" but what they dont realize is that girls are just the same humans as we are
@@MariaLuisa-ro1kz yea especially in competitive games there will be a lot of toxic ppl who let out their anger, i usually like to mute my whole team (i play dota2) and focus on my game, ive had girls in my games and they dont talk until the end of the game so maybe thats a strategy (a sad one tho cause it shows theyre not comfortable to use mic, only at the very end)
I think anytime a comparison is made between Men's or Women's problems, we lose sight of the problem. Am I wrong in this? Instead of just addressing both sides, I think both sides get lost in trying to make it some type of competition between who has it worse? I think anytime someone's view is invalidated from the jump, no matter the view, it will not lead to progress. If someone has an answer to why I'm mistaken I would love to hear you're point of view
Yeah, this is also a problem. It leads to echo chambers that sadly result in generalizations of the opposite gender.
Really well said!!!
I don't think you are wrong. But some caveats:
*Some problems affect different genders differently. There can be a natural "what about us" when addressing the topic, so you can get dragged into this just by trying to address a problem.
* Sometimes you can use gender norms to solve problems (e.g. it is a man's responsibility to protect their wife and children). This gets you into comparison territory. I'm not a fan of this, but Dr K seems to be getting into this territory with women play life on hard mode and rules for behaving towards women. Kind of funny that the response to gender roles is more gender roles...
* Sometimes there are things that are genuinely zero sum and force comparison
I agree.
I also wonder how different the conversation would've been if Dr k hadn't use the hard mode analogy for example.
Maybe not that different, the comments could've been filled with 'men have problems too'. But it seems to me that a lot of the comments against the video are stuck on that particular point, like they stopped listening after that.
Otherwise known as the oppression olympics.
Oh man, your point about listening to people when they talk about their experience brought tears to my eyes. Yes. That. Don't immediately reject what I tell you I've experienced. Thank you.
Its sad that listening to people as if their experience is valid has become a rarity
Nah bro, pretty sure it didn't actually bring tears to your eyes /s
@@Aetherian1 sure did, bro. Thanks for illustrating why right in the comments for everyone.
@@kkimsey5866 for future reference, /s at the end of internet comments often denotes sarcasm :)
@@tandem863 whoa, dude, this is not supposed to be a "fight of the genders". You're projecting. This person is just saying that victims should be listened without being doubted in FIRST glance. Listen to the victim and be skeptical later. It's really funny how you bring up that way this person would tell you to man up (even though this person didn't even talked about men not being victims, their comment was literally not gender specific).
Victims, male or female, should be listened to, and have empathy for, before anything else. In fact, the fact you got your own trauma as well, you probably would want to be listened to as well, so i don't get why deny that.
Living in a developing country where there is a lot of sexism and gender based violence towards women, I have always been very passive when I was in situations where women were discriminated in front of me. In my mind I was preventing unnecessary trouble to arise for me so I generally kept mum and didn't speak up in such instances. This talk has encouraged me to take action when such an instance occurs in the future and hopefully I could be more brave in the future. Thank you Dr. K!!
It's less like your mom being everywhere, and more like that one drunk uncle everyone has who's not allowed around the kids alone anymore. Like, is he going to touch me inappropriately or start yelling racial slurs? Idk, but it's a gamble every time.
An important note to add to the mom annalogy: Imagine that but it's not only fucking annoying, but it can also make you feel self-concious, violated, other'd, subhuman, and fear. Like genuine fear for your life... Just think about that for a second.
When he said, "When you talk to a woman online, don't friend them afterwards" I was like YES! YES!!! Thank you! I enjoy talking to people a lot. I don't want to friend everyone! I want to be just another person you talk to, not the person you put on a pedestal for being a woman!
The fact that guys do it is in a way the proof of their miserable situation.
Haven't watched the video yet but what's wrong with that? If you wanna stay in contact and you had a good conversation, why shouldn't you friend people?
@@WaaDoku There isn't anything wrong with that. These autistic women just want to do everything they can to control men and how they interact with others. Going so far as to say sending a friend request is wrong. These people are sick in the head
@@emiki6Way to turn the conversation around...
im a girl and never really experienced a lot of this stuff until recently as a customer service worker. man this shit really does happen, had so many men hit on me and one even demanded i remove my mask during 2020 🤡. its NOT all men, yes, but this minority or whatever made me feel so uncomfortable just doing my job.
I think the reason it's extra terrible is that you most often cannot tell the difference between a normal man and a predatory man until you talk to them, and at that point they're too close for you to simply run away. The more you encounter men that look normal but act predatory, you start distancing yourself, acting cautiously, protecting yourself until you can confirm that this person is safe.
Imagine if you lived in a world that was mostly populated with humans, but there was also an alien race that was visually indistinguishable that survived by drinking human blood. Some of the aliens are even so good that they can convince you they're normal humans long enough to get you alone somewhere, and you know friends and even family members that this has happened to. Then imagine that there are enough of them in society that they form communities about how drinking human blood is cool and good, and humans are bad for resisting them. Imagine that these aliens work in government, in law enforcement, in churches, in every sphere of human life. They socialize where humans do, live like humans do, but they are always looking for their next meal.
Wouldn't you be so afraid of accidentally meeting one in public? What if the cop that pulled you over just wants to suck your blood? What if the girl approaching you at the bar wants you to go back to her place so she can trap you there and feed on you for days? What if your boss might corner you one day because they think they can get away with it? Wouldn't it be horrifying if aliens messaged you out of the blue online and told you that they'll find you and suck your delicious, weak human blood?
That's kind of what it's like to be a woman in a society where women are treated as sex objects and subhumans.
it's because of PUA. I remember when I was 18 yo and googled "how to get laid", you had(and still have) like 100 results of PUAs "game" that litteraly teach you to go out there and ask women number until someone give it. Persistence is really something taught. And more, if a women seems uninterested, you must continue to try! that's just a test to see how confident you are!
@@nope5259 Ohhh boy........
Same it's like you being nice automatically mean to them you're hitting on them or want that attention 🤮 why cant people be nice to be nice without thinking the need to be rewarded
@@carebear3120 you should write a book.
I kid you not, being kind of ugly has massive advantages. I'm a 4 on a good hair day. I have never been treated badly, followed, or otherwise felt unsafe. I didn't get all the special treatment prettier girls get so I learned how to operate in a man's world. Flirts would get me no where, haha, so I learned how to negotiate and communicate. I give as good as I get in a chat. Being ugly made me a better, more humble and genuine person. It has been a blessing and I still managed to marry well and I have two beautiful children. I am blessed beyond compare.
I appreciate your post and honesty. Please continue to prosper.
It sounds like you have a beautiful life. Congratulations for finding the gifts in life.
Honestly I'm attractive now but I used to be very obese for years so I was unattractive for a long time. Now that I have lost the weight I feel soo uncomfortable of men just staring at me. Like no joke, a couple of weeks ago I went to the grocery store in a tracksuit and right when I walked in there were two male employees talking to one another and one just straight up directly looked at my butt without missing a word of his discussion, I felt so violated.
So I agree with what you're saying, I would much rather be invisible to men and have my peace that have to deal with all this
The hounded by your mom analogy was the best description I've ever heard to describe it. And honestly I don't even experience it much. I naturally gravitate to spaces where I don't encounter a lot of people who make uncomfortable comments so it's more like my mom hounds me every now and then but like... it always happens unexpectedly in the randomest places. And I know it will never stop. There is never something I can say or do to make it so that there isn't a day in a few weeks from now my 'mom' doesn't pop up and ask me to do laundry when I'm doing other shit, trying to go about my day.
I'm glad that you don't experience it too often, although it's sad that you've naturally avoided situations and experiences that may include these sorts of people.
The thing it misses, is that Mom doesn’t threaten your safety. Mom isn’t larger or stronger and encounters with mom don’t make you have to run through a risk assessment every time she pops up.
Not to push anyone down, but this sounds like women would have a higher suicide rate or higher usage of drugs due to these issues. Wouldn't that point towards the possible inexistence of these issues or at least severely overrate them?
@@krystledawne This is the thing. It also doesn't give you an near existential feeling of powerlessness because you had experiences of men treating you like an object since you were young; and every time you fought a men physically (tbh me vs my autistic brother who had a melt down, but it made me aware of how strong men are) it hammered down how vulnerable you really are. Not saying men aren't treated as an object btw, I think they definitely are in other contexts, but it's an empathy thing. I would just like for men to recognize how vulnerable and demeaning can be to be a woman, and I do recognize how incredible e.g. invisible and uncared for men can feel. Women living life in hard mode doesn't mean men don't.
@@d4mterro320 you just did what dr k talked about in this video, rejected her experience by saying it’s possibly a non existent issue. But to address your point about suicide; this has nothing to do with suicide. People generally don’t kill themselves because of uncomfortable experiences with men (at least, from less severe experiences). I don’t know whether this is true, but my guess is that the reason the suicide rate is higher amongst men is because it’s more taboo fore men to express emotions, and in turn we bottle them up and it can lead us to feeling more suicidal.
While I'm a man, I get the feeling of having no escape. The internet used to be the place I went to for comfort, but in recent years I can't go anywhere without facing constant prejudice and racism. It really showed me that if people haven't gone through your experiences and don't know anyone similar to you personally they will consider you less than human.
I am here with you and this video isn't helping.
@@hungrymusicwolf what do you mean?
@@flannelsone1159 1 word: politics
Being 'old' enough to have experienced internet before you could like posts/comments, I feel like most of this feeling comes from a combination of echo chambers and being able to 'vote' on posts/comments. This is just through my own perspective so keep that in mind. I've been a moderator in many communities (from safezone fora to in-game) in the past 10 years and increasingly saw groups form with more and more of a niche ideology. These groups then made a 'new' forum with their niche ideology and the same repeated over and over (forming echo chambers).
For example: I used to moderate an LGBT forum for teens which was just this broad collection of everyone sharing ideas and experiences, but that has long since segregated themselves into the particular sexual orientations and even age range (e.g. "only 10-13 y.o. demi-pansexuals allowed!"). These niche groups also no longer share ideas and experiences but tend to gossip and judge (e.g. "You know what someone just said to me?! They must be an [x]! Nobody likes them!"). I must state that I was one of these 'wallow in self-pity/lash out to opponents' types, probably one of the biggest ones (even to the point of 'hating heterosexuals' for example).
When voting and such started becoming a trend everywhere it was increasingly more easy to 'see what people thought' (your own assumption of it anyway). If your post got 10 upvotes but someone else who went against you got 100 upvotes, then it's easy to think "oh my opinion is wrong". People can get really hurt in their ego by this comparison and start to lash out (double down, report them for 'harassment', swear, etc.) or crawl into these echo chambers to 'get more votes/agreement than the bad person that went against me'.
The population of people on social media and the 'normality' of it also hasn't helped (enabling bigger groups, more and more opinions, larger witch hunts, accessibility to people who otherwise would have no interest in social media), which is why it's just best to reduce social media as much as possible these days.
This is all just personal experience though and I definitely was on the end that got to see the most nastiness (being responsible of handling all the complaints) so my perspective is probably skewed.
@@a.bagasm.7253 yeah.. i mean.. a lot of things are politics, how does this make it bad?
It feels so weird to hear these stories, being a girl myself, it almost makes me feel less of a woman or guilty of something I haven't done, cause I haven't experienced things like being followed or bullied in games for being a girl. though I do not use voice chat because I don't feel like I belong there... and it even makes me feel better to write about myself using masculine pronounces because I'm afraid that if my teammates will see how bad I am at the game (league) and know I'm a girl, they'll keep believing this stereotype forever
If you're bad at league it's not really a problem as long as you're not feeding intentionally and ruining the game. The main thing is just trying to win and trying to enjoy the game, because it's a game after all. Kayn is a fun champ but Pantheon stole my heart
Ultimately though you're not disproving the stereotype by disguising yourself. The only way to do that is to be better.
Also, the fact that you have to hide your gender speaks for itself. The only reason you have to do that is misogyny. I've also not experienced that, but I'm usually just hanging out in my small town and know not to go out walking at night unless I'm with a couple of friends.
@@mewichigo4924 and the reason I am not allowed to disagree with you is because I'm misogynistic too, right?
@@mewichigo4924 100% agree.
I'm a trans girl. Even the "I don't belong in voice" part kinda proves the point, too.
Personally, I've done my fair bit of voice training to have control over how fem or masc my voice sounds. I don't mind presenting as masc on voice to prove a point to my friends.
So one thing I like to do is when my friends don't really get how bad the gaming community in general can be for women on voice, is to play a few games of whatever I happen to be playing at the time (csgo, dota, whatever) with my fem voice, show that friend how people react to me, and then to play a couple with a masc voice.
The best story I've got is this - I once got told by somebody that my girlfriend (me) sucked and I (still me) should teach her (myself!) how to play better since I clearly knew what I was doing. The person just happened to be in both lobbies I was playing, and made some assumptions.
I think these gendered issues tend to be easier to understand when we can have a good point of comparison and that's why I do the voice thing with friends that don't quite get it - because it's as close as I can get to giving them a side by side comparison, knowing that most people will never see both sides of the coin in any meaningful capacity.
I would like to say that as a young man who went to Thailand alone at 17 years old and spent a good week of that trip next to koh san road in Bangkok, I may have some understanding of what it’s like to be a woman. I was groped endlessly and at times even grabbed tightly by bunches of women while they explicitly assert what they’re looking for. I remember one particular group of 3 bigger women did this and scared the hell out of me and wouldn’t let go no matter what I tried, thankfully another guy came and got me out there. Honestly had to think about some of the things you were talking about here doc but glad you put it the way you did. It’s hard to notice the rationalizations we make whether we are dealing with addiction or even our views on reluirions, politics, etc. You seem to be very inspired by Carl Rogers. I may be mistaken but you often seem to bring up ideas similar to those I’ve read in his books. One thing in particular has been the notion that in order to have a beneficial discussion with genuine progress and understanding, the recipient of the argument must be able to re state the argument to the satisfaction of the arguer before making any rebuttal and vice versa. Anyways, I cannot say I understand what it is like to be a woman, I am not a woman as the existentialists have pointed out, but if it’s anything like my experience in Thailand, that is very sad to imagine :(
I'm so sorry that happened to you! I wish you the best
I don't think those were wo(men) grabbing you..
Dude it's hard for both men and women out there, both genders are equally capable of doing this same crap to the other genders and its really sad that heterosexuals and even homosexuals have to live in this constant fear of being grabbed and assaulted by men, women and queer people. People should learn to respect boundaries period. But I guess that's just a distant dream, people have always committed henious crimes and will continue to do so because a human being is capable of doing both good and the worst thing in this world. Look at German camps, Russia or Mao for that reason.
Wow, that is terrifying. Sorry that happened to you. Thank you for trying to understand 🙏 Whenever someone tells a story like this, we should listen. Regardless of gender. It makes me sad that so many people get defensive like Dr. K said and just try to rationalize it away because it's too hard to handle.
@@jackmak2980 Hahaha, true
I agree with the video a lot, but I believe that the approach of comparing sexes and the whole easy/hard mode talk won't get anything done and causes a lot of people who need to hear it the most to react worse, it just sounds bad regardless of how respectfully and considerately it's phrased
I asked someone else this as well but how would you get the message across without making any comparison?
It seems to me that to accept misogyny as a problem you need to first accept that there is indeed a structural difference in how different genders are treated.
Imo it has the same energy as "how can you be depressed when there are people out there who've suffered more than you".
Like sure, that might be the case, but it feels shitty when your own pain is invalidated cuz "you went through life on easy mode".
I do understand how calling all of
Mens experience “easy mode” is invalidating. Maybe DrK could’ve said that women experience all of the same hardships of men while also dealing with constant fear or being accosted + etc? Like imagine, if you identify as
Male, having all of your current problems, plus not being able to walk anywhere public alone at night, being disrespected in public social settings, being given the homemaking responsibilities, and raised to believe your value is in being pure sexually. It sounds hard. Would this change how you feel about your problems being invalidated?
@@crouton3455 something along the lines of "there are many *places* where women have it way harder than men". That sounds a lot more reasonable and seems like it can be applied in the places that Dr K wants to talk about
Agree, I'm a firm believer that you can't generalize such huge groups, so saying one has hard mode and one has easy mode is false, cause there's just too much diversity inside them
Great video. As a man I try to make sure I call out misogyny when I see it but I have to admit that I’m even guilty of it sometimes. It seems to be so deeply rooted in our society and our thinking. Sometimes what I think is fine is misogynistic to a woman. I guess we all gotta work hard to eliminate it
In games, it can be especially disheartening when your entire team is saying really disgusting sexist things to you, not just one person. This is what drove me out of voice chat permanently. It doesn't just ruin the match, it ruins the day. Also, many people automatically assume you suck at the game and can only play healer/support.
IRL, men close to me have this thing they do where they say things like "you would be so beautiful with a little makeup" or "you should dress more feminine". Preconceived notions can be frustrating, not just about gender. Women have to be more worried about being sexually assaulted IRL. Women are physically weaker on average. Lastly, the controversial, women are sometimes paid less/promoted less when in EQUAL circumstance to their male counterparts. While this may be more rare now, it still happens.
Obviously there are negatives for males too, such the societal pressure to be masculine, to not show emotions, and to not be a virgin. I know there are many more negatives for both genders.
My favorite is when men will shoot me a few times and knock my HP down to like 30%, and then when I die first (because they gave me a handicap) they go all "ugh this GIRL os so SHlT"
Look at the lawsuit against Blizzard this past summer for more evidence of the latter, particularly as it's relevant to the gaming community.
Yup this is why I sometimes play my opposite gender just so that I wont have to deal with being considered "lesser" thus aka making myself an easy target to hurt me.
A pratical and actionable statergy would be to actively moderate your chat whenever they dehumanize your female guests. Lets be honest here. HG Chat can get pretty disrespectful when the topic of women comes up, often invaliding them with chat emotes and memes. Saying simple things like "Can ya'll stop. That's not cool, chat." can do wonders. Chat see you as a role model, so why not model healthy behavior. Lectures can only do so much.
I love censorship, brought to you by Xhong Xina
@@hanma3291 freedom of speech doesn't mean others have to give you a platform to do said speech
@@hanma3291 Correction is not censorship. If someone says something incorrect or does something harmful, it is fully reasonable to ask them to stop or to address the issue with a corrective action. If you would like to be part of a community, you do not get to just show up and throw your ego around without consequence. You are not entitled to an audience nor belonging in that community, especially so if it is alienating or actively harming people. I would hope and encourage someone who wishes to participate in this community to be vulnerable enough to take a step back and wonder why they feel so defensive at the mere suggestion of being corrected in such a way.
@@hanma3291 Telling someone that they're being a jerk is not censorship, it's telling them that they're being a jerk
@@Itugen88 then its a you problem tbh.
Exposing yourself to other perspectives with an open mind is a great way to be more understanding. Can be real people, but I think stories are the best. Especially where you don't see characters from the outside, but you are in their head, you are them. It can be games, shows, movies, books.
I guess a bit of me thinks this is more "keep on questioning yourself until you agree", there has to be an end to the process.
I agree with your process here, but devolving to ad hominem attacks and name-calling is unfortunately going to be the majority notion here, sadly
@@hanma3291 Very likely, but it might also give insight to some and at the very least it's food for thought; that's worth something.
With that logic you can even understand Hitler's actions but understanding things doesn't mean you have to accept them neither make them right
If only the other side did the same
I feel like, while I do try to be understanding since I can't put myself in their shoes, I tend to be apathetic towards many issues they face out of ignorance. It's something that I'm actively trying to change as I do feel like I've let myself adopt misogynistic beliefs that if I sit and think about, serve no real purpose other than to push away understanding from other human beings.
It's been difficult because even with friends it's almost like a bonding opportunity to talk crap about women. As I've become more aware of it, I've shied away from it, but it might not be enough to just shy away.
As a guy it was much easier for me to hold this belief that the trials and tribulations of men are more difficult, but at the end of the day women always seem to have more on their plate. That I've conveniently overlooked when it came to it, but I'd like to think that I'm moving in the right direction in seeking to understand as opposed to just combat it like I might have before.
Proud of you man
I act the same as you do, just towards men. I gather with my other female friends and talk crap, and it really helps.
It helps to turn my emapthy off sometimes, and yet I always bounce back to 'not all men are that bad' narrative
Honestly most guys are like you. They’re not fully misogynistic but they still hold misogynistic beliefs and don’t hold other men accountable- rather they end up enabling and encouraging each other. So when women say men suck or don’t understand women, this is what they mean. Not that all men are abusers, but all men hold these beliefs that make it impossible to even find a guy who doesn’t have these beliefs about their own girlfriends and mothers.
"EVERYWHERE YOU GO, YOU'RE GETTING AGGROED BY YOUR MUM!" - this sentence is epic even without a context. 👩⚖
I'm happy this youtuber here adresses it, though I hope one day Hbomberguy adresses it as well.
I mean, he kinda did with his Sarkesian-Videos and 'The Golden One' already, but oh well, more cant be bad, yeah?
Well, for existing videos though: Best Video i know about Gender-Studys explained well:
Forrest Valkai and his video 'S-x and Sensbility'.
@@loturzelrestaurant Just checked Forrest's video and as a biologists myself, I gotta say it's wonderful! Thank you!
@@malastrasza Epic.
If I may point out a common misunderstanding when we talk about misogyny, most people aren't saying that it's about a majority. In my experience being a female engineer who practiced martial arts, most times the problem was like 1 or 2 people. But that's actually enough to just make your job or hobby exhausting because you have to constantly prove that you are "allowed" to be in that space and on top of that you're likely to have your feelings/problems not acknowledged by men because the guy or guys in question happen to be totally respectful cool and super chill with THEM. And indeed most times, once the problem was acknowledged if many women talked about it (only works in places where there are actually enough women) then those bad apples got called out and eventually had to leave because they didn't want to change.
It doesn't have to be a majority. One misogynistic or even predatory co-worker can make your life hell at work and if that person happens to be well liked by other men, there is protection that can keep them around very long or even forever...
Yeah, the reality is that one or two bad guys wouldn't be a big problem if every other guy wasn't neutral about it. Women get run out of a lot of spaces because the majority of the men in said space just won't do anything about those bad guys. Which I think is what really makes people uncomfortable and defensive because it reveals they haven't been very good friends to the women in their life.
I suspect they feel bad, but a lot of the time they probably don't have any real desire to actually do better. So they attack anyone who points out that they allowed things to happen and try to push any sort of responsibility off themselves by making it about the bad actor (he was always nice to me/I can't control everything he does/it's none of my business etc.) or the victim (you need to protect yourself better/stop leading him on etc.).
This is why I think the whole "statistics" argument kind of muddles the discussion about misogyny and being afraid, at least the way it's used nowadays as a 'gotcha for men's issues being mentioned. People don't fear because of a bloody number, they fear because they've either heard consistent stories of other people's trauma or experienced that trauma themselves. It's not easy to pass off that one guy looking at you in a van when at one point a guy doing a similar thing assaulted you, especially when you couldn't do much against that person. That's where "1 in 3 women" and "1 in 4 men" gets misunderstood. It's not just about whose causing the trauma, it's about the trauma itself, and how many who have not gone through that experience fail to empathize.
Men who are not doing anything about it and like "the misogynist" are also misogynistic. A lot of them "do nothing" but they do protect the misogynist and dismiss the women. That also is derived from misogyny.
Arguably one of the most frustrating things I've experienced as a woman is judgement from other women, though I admit I'm more in the online art scene than the gaming scene. They often disregard that I genuinely enjoy cooking as a hobby and cleaning because of the satisfaction it gives, and when I exhibit the slightest "female" trait or treat a male in the community the way I would another woman, I get called a 'trad wife' or 'basic'. It feels like I need to constantly apologize for enjoying mundane daily tasks because of their association with society's views of women. There is no win scenario in some groups of people.
I feel like a lot of women get caught up in the “I’m not like other girls” thing which is internalized misogyny and rather unfortunate 😞 cooking and cleaning take focus and effort and you deserve positive feedback on it especially if it fulfills you!
They're just jealous tbh
@@usfilms8828 how is that internalised misogyny? the mindset of 'not like the other girls' is rooted in trying to be more interesting to men, while the attitudes OP talks about are stemmed in hatred of the patriarchy and of the idea of pleasing men.
@@usfilms8828 Men do i'm not like other guys equivalents just as much. Labeling internalized misogyny on a common gender neutral trait seems silly.
Oh they think everyone is a pick me girl as soon as they say the like woman like things!!
I’m so glad Dr. K did such a good job addressing his sogony!
Sending a text message to a friend, telling them where you are going. Thinking: if I don’t come back, the police will know where to start searching for me. I was just going for a walk and it was 17:00 o‘clock and it’s starting to get dark outside. Thinking, how the police might have to search for me.
Being a guy lets you just leave the house at 1 am and go for a walk without worry
It is sad that it is unavailable to half the population because it's really peaceful and nice, the world is more like it is then
@@thecanadiankiwibirb4512 Okay I keep seeing people say this. Where are you people living? I'm a man, and I live in a city where the average home price is +1.2 million dollars; my friends and I would definitely feel a bit in danger if we walked outside anytime between about 11pm - 4 am. These are some real privileged communities if you feel safer than me.
@@thecanadiankiwibirb4512 The only reason I do not get assaulted is me being 6 inches above the average and weighing 238lbs, for no one is safe to go out at this time.
I really hope Dr K and his team read through some of these UA-cam comments
He did say he had read them or most of them at least.
Edit: 1:22
@@martinmaynard7669 The UA-cam comments
@@a-spoonful-of-suga Thank you for the clarificatiom and editing the original comment to reflect that amendment.
Edit:
I am not the best at managing autocorrect.
@@martinmaynard7669 no worries my guy
I agree, maybe address some of the really common statements /issues
finally, a video for gamers
Next vid: Addressing Racism
Next vid: addressing homophobia.
Next vid: addressing gynocentrism
Next vid: Adressing *insert phobia combo here*
Adressing how oppressed we gamers are as a minority😎
I used to be administrator in a Garry's Mod server, it was populair and the voicechat was used alot. I have banned so many men because they kept target harrassing women. Some of girls got used to being harrassed and stuck around, some just left altogether, but all of them really hated having to endure that. I swear, it was a gods damned warzone. I felt like a nanny that had to raise like a billion children, except back then they were all people my own age. Weird.
Beta white knight LOL.
@@Digger-Nick Good lord, the sheer incel energy this comment has.
@@boi8732 Literally the epitome of op's comment. Why are you people such incels? Like how are you not embarrassed??
@@Digger-Nick incels?
@@Digger-Nick Stop, you're not convincing anyone incel.
As a woman, I personally don't think men have it on easy mode compared to women from what I've learned about the problems men face. I'm not saying we don't have it on hard mode, because we most certainly do, (I would know being an Indian-American woman lmao) but after learning about men's problems, I just wanna give some of y'all a hug and then get a hug myself :<
I think men and women face their own challenges and it's hard to say what's worse because let's face it-- men deal with horrific problems in society that people just don't really care that much about. Women have had a century to get to this point where a lot of people are willing to listen to us, which is amazing bcs we struggle a lot as well, but men don't get quite the same treatment in today's world. It's like the logic Dr. K pointed out which I've never thought of before that ironically enough, calls for the abandonment of logic in the face of someone saying "hey, this is a problem". Because there's a blind spot when people say there is a problem.
None of us should downplay each other's problems and misogyny and misandry need to die. There are so many misogynists and also so many misandrists out there that just work to bring all of us down. There should be a time and place to focus on us women like this video which I commend Dr. K for, and we must have a time and place to focus on men's issues as well instead of dismissing them as less important or nonexistent (as many people do with women's issues).
Women have it hardest out of all of the different categories of people from what I've seen. The woman experience is really really difficult and dangerous in comparison to the man's experience especially in the 3rd world.
This. The different problems one does face depends from country to country, there is no absolute "hard mode" or "easy mode". I did travel a lot during my life, and while my country is heavy femminist (men dont have it easy, its very rough), other placest are completely ruled by males and is bad aswell. I think we need to find a mid way and let misoginy and misandry die
But ironically this can only happen by shifting tradition and governments. There shouldnt be so much favoritism for a gender or another, like there is now. Males have difficulties and Females has difficulties, as it should, so we should be treated equally by the law. Its a simple thing to ask in theory, but in practice some people cant see the in-between. And this makes me so hopeless and sad.
Everyone deserves to have their pain validated.
No one who actually advocates for women's rights and has a brain says ignore women, it's a very tiny group of people who are psychotic in that aspect.
Especially people like Dr. K are not ignoring men's issues at all.
I completely agree. Its really unfortunate that the growth of misogyny has only made misandry worse and vice versa. I hope as a society we don't get to a place where men and women hate each other but this divide is growing rapidly. Hopefully we stop having a competition of who is suffering worse so we can understand each other better.
Being a 14 yo girl on Xbox live in 2008 messed up my confidence for years. Legitimately one percent of dudes would just circulate and say horrible sht. Then I got in group of gamers who were like 22-25 and they weren’t rude, but I’m friends and parents made me stop because they just assumed bad shit. I loved video games because of my adhd and every person told me to get off and I wasn’t welcome. I came back around to gaming a few years ago and only then did i remember and start correlating shit I was nervous about. It still happens, but honestly the fear of it happening is so much higher because of how much it happened. I am an adult with a career and will still feel that fear of being publicly shamed.
Having a tight-knit group of friends you can trust is the way to go, in my opinion. My gaming friends consist of my sister, my husband, and a few mature friends of both genders who I can trust. I tend to not play games where I'll get harassed for my gender.
it's like getting hounded by your mom, and then every once in a while she makes a threat on your life just to spice it up
I really like the way Dr. K coins "blindspot" here, that's actually a very useful understanding of looking at people's opinions, particularly if you disagree with them. They are never dumb or stupid. They have had education etc. So you may have a blindspot of your own that you can fill with their knowledge and perspective of the matter, so you can understand how those people come to that opinion that you inherently disagree with. This does not mean that you will have to agree with them at the end of the day but I think it helps a lot to understand where they're coming from.
Yeah, misogyny is a big problem nowadays and people shouldnt downplay it.
Even if we ignore how HARD IT IS TO SPELL, it is still a problem anyway.
I'm happy this youtuber here adresses it, though I hope one day Hbomberguy adresses it as well.
I mean, he kinda did with his Sarkesian-Videos and 'The Golden One' already, but oh well, more cant be bad, yeah?
The most valuable thing imo is showing examples of ways misogynistic thinking comes out in the community or in life, not the big obvious ones, but the subtle ones, and breaking down how that is misogynistic so people who don't identify as misogynistic can see behaviors and beliefs they have that contradict how they view themselves
Firstly, I really love the way Dr K goes about this topic, how he recognizes his blind spots (no matter if real or not) and what makes him think he may have some. That's some modeling behaviour right there.
Secondly, after reading about 10 comments written by women I come to the conclusion the mom analogy falls way short. An omnipresent nagging mom is infuriatingly ANNOYING. Now imagine you cannot recognize your mom because she is a shape shifter and she does not only nag you about laundry and homework, but insults, hits, assaults and even kills you in some circumstances. And you've been told since a young age to be wary of your mom, who - to repeat - you cannot recognize because she shape shifts and can and DOES look like random dudes on the street.
That's terrifying.
I'm happy this youtuber here adresses it, though I hope one day Hbomberguy adresses it as well.
I mean, he kinda did with his Sarkesian-Videos and 'The Golden One' already, but oh well, more cant be bad, yeah?
Well, for existing videos though: Best Video i know about Gender-Studys explained well:
Forrest Valkai and his video 'S-x and Sensbility'.
Most of the time, people are really just lonely and as a result resentful. It is the easier way to "hate what you can't have" and tell yourself that you "don't need anyone anyway"
The classic "I literally live in a pumpkin pie factory" fallacy.
@@Ivanhoenn what? I tried googling that and didn't find anything meaningful...
@Mafumofu and when we say that's misandry they say we're misogynist for disagreeing with her.
Well it's not a reason to treat women like trash because they can't have sex with them. Be a decent human being atleast.
@matasuki why is feminists saying they don't need men misandry? Wtf
men wonder why we only play cozy nintendo games and not "real games" like shooters and competitive games but then when we do we are immediately harassed for that too 😞
what makes you think men arent harrased in shooters either? I have been called the most vile-shit and I think its funny as shit. Hell I think women have it better, I've seen guys CARRY TEAMS because a woman was playing lmao. Stop acting like only women face toxicity in gaming, its practically universal.
The mom analogy only reminded me that men don't really understand that it's not an "annoying" thing, it's scary
The “helping someone out then leaving the person alone” thing is *so* important. Finally being saved from an uncomfortable position just to immediately be put back into one again is low-key the worst feeling ever.
Also; I’ve sworn off of using voice chat in video games entirely. It sucks because typing in competitive is a pain but it is so much better than guys finding out you’re a girl and being completely shit on because of it. I could handle the first few insults, but after a week of them I just couldn’t deal with it anymore, it was so negative and disheartening.
just say if you guys buckle up and win this, you will make them all sandwiches. If that fails just be toxic and throw on purpose lol
No women has ever helped me with anything, why should I help them? The same way you don't owe us a relationship we don't owe you any help. If you expect us to help you and you give us nothing in return then you are the entitled one, not us.
@@treeforged9097 1. It’s woman* and 2. I never said you had to, nor did anyone else? You’re a human being with your own free will, why would I give a shit if you did or didn’t do something to help a woman out? It’s the right thing to do because women are human beings and human beings shouldn’t receive disrespect just like men shouldn’t either, but you do what you want at the end of the day.
The fact that you’ll call women entitled and then go on to say you think you deserve something after being a decent human being is quite literally the funniest and most entitled thing I’ve ever heard. That is the textbook definition of entitlement- thinking you deserve something in return when you actively do something of your own will.
Newsflash- no one, female male or non-binary, owes you anything. Just as women don’t owe help from people, you don’t owe some kind of attention or sexual gratification from a woman that you did a good thing for. The difference you seem to not be fully understanding is that saving someone from an uncomfortable position is just the decent thing to do; whether you choose to is up to you. Once you’ve done it though, just as you had the choice to help them out or not, THEY have the choice to thank you and start up conversation or ignore you entirely.
It’s about being kind and having respect, if you don’t want to you have every right. People do so because they see an inequality and they don’t want the hate to continue, but it’s your choice at the end of the day.
@@OffSetMeat I would if I could even get a word in- most of them will just shout profanities or talk over me. If I even consider standing up for myself, they’ll tk me or purposely throw the game. Not all games are like this, you come across good people, but if I had to ratio it (from solo queueing alone) it’s like 25% nice and 75% shit. At the end of the day it’s just a game so it doesn’t really matter, but it sucks that women can’t enjoy certain games because of it.
The best solution I’ve found is to just find a supportive friend group with guys and girls who are decent, reasonable people and play in a group over discord. I rarely solo queue in competitive matches if at all anymore.
I'm a female that's never gamed before this year and now I play a lot of VALORANT and I use voice chat for call outs. As someone who's new to gaming I find it surprising that it's like the guys on the other end have never spoken to a female in their life. The most common comment is like, "omg are you a girl??" and then just pestering me with questions or comments throughout the game that has nothing to do with the game.
Someone commented "When a woman joins the lobby/match I would say almost every time there is at least one dude who acts like an asshole" which I think is pretty accurate. Over half the time there's a random on my team and I speak they have something weird to say. I personally don't respond and I still enjoy the game, but it can be a little tiresome after a while.
In reality, most of them have actually not spoken to women much.
That's why I always play online with my sister, because I know what kind of people are on there sadly.
It's funny you mention VAL, I swtiched from CSGO to VAL recently and remeber thinking VAL is so much nicer in compareison just because I've only expericence general sexist harassment so far. In CSGO they'll literally throw the whole game, jumping in front of your shots (friendly fire on) to get you banned or calling out where you are in global chat if you mute them. Wouldn't recommend...
Also don't you love how I consider just general sexist harassment an improvment as well? I feel like that speaks volumes to what we have to go through regualarly online :/
I've gamed my whole life and it's either one or the other, they are either huge assholes or simps. I play Sea of Thieves a lot and mostly my crew makes me be the spokesperson for our ship because my voice catches them off guard.
We even had a situation where this guy was going to betray an alliance for a girl on the other ship so I piped up on my mic and he got so conflicted on which wahmen to simp for.
And then another situation where I got accused of being trans (they used a slur) in a toxic way and we had to put them down twice in a row while they insulted me and my crew for being near me.
In that situation luckily we're good enough at the game to defend our honor. But back when we were new at the game we all got spawn camped on our own ship while these two guys constantly yelled "GAMERGIRLGAMERGIRLGAMERGIRL" and little sprinkles of "WHAT THE GAMER GIRL ISN'T GOOD AT THE GAME?"
On the other hand sometimes I get gifted things by people I haven't spoken to in months or played with online a few times.
@@megnugget2631 supply and demand be like
It would probably help if the ratio to men to women in gaming was 50:50 instead of 99:1, the reason why so many people get surprised is because it legitimately is pretty rare to encounter women while playing, if more women played I don't think this would be as much of a problem as more people would find it normal.
I think we all have our own "hard mode" that is dictated by and further dictates our circumstances. Male, female, white, black, etc. I think we could all do with a dose of empathy. Maybe my hard mode is different from yours, but neither of us will deal with each other's challenges. We can empathize that we are all individuals facing adversity that we may never be able to fully relay to another person. So in this way, it solves almost all generalizations about race, gender, income, etc. Like he said, genuinely listen to people. Maybe they are wrong, but what they are feeling is true to them. Be a good person and listen for a second.
exactly
Yeah but being a woman would rank right up there at the top next to the disabled and poor.
Finally a person who thinks critically and willing to listen to the trouble of both the sides.
@@jackmak2980 "Being a woman is such a widespread, debilitating disease, but if you donate just three pounds today..."
This comment is so underrated.
I’m honestly so sick of this. I want to be able to walk in broad daylight without feeling anxious or needing my friends/family to walk beside me. I want to be able to walk alone without being stalked or cat called again. Is that too much to ask for? And people disregard my experiences because “I live in a first world country”…
Start cat calling men?
Common woman L
@@gufestus4106I would appreciate that.
You disliking it doesn't prove that its a bad thing for a man to hit on you. Nice way to conflate the extreme with the norm kiddo.
"Always assume the person you are talking to knows something you may not." Got a self help book from my aunt and that quote is something I think gets looked past too much...
I really liked the video and i think your metaphor was smart. I just think it lacked the 'fear' part. I'm just 17 and have already been assaulted twice, not to mention the potential attempts i luckily evaded. I have so many friends (almost every woman i know) who have been assaulteed or r-ed... Men might not know this cause women don't usually talk about this...
I'm literally just 17, i don't think men understand how scary it is that there's such a high possibility of me getting r-ed... When there's a dude u reject hitting on u and only seeing u as a vag, there's always this thought in the back of your head: "this could be it". I don't think it's easy to understand this feeling, but I wish more men would try to...
Yes! It certainly lacked the fear part.
I hope you are ok.
Agreed. The terror portion is missing and I don't know how to communicate this to the right people who don't understand.
What's worse is that the fear never really goes away. I'm almost 30 and I'm often afraid to go anywhere alone, especially new places.
Thank god pepper spray exists. Never be afraid to defend yourself!
@@guyinacage Women having to carry pepper spray around is indicative of the problem cause most men, even untrained and physically frail ones, never feel the need. But yes that and self-defense classes are unfortunately very good to have.
The most illuminating revelation i ever had was this one.
Man: I'm doing my part! My wife and I have a responsibility chart and our sides are equal!
Moderator: who made the chart?
13:15 Upvotes =/= shared experiences.
It can mean anything from enjoying the post to mental virtue signaling. (I upvoted something so I feel better about myself.)
I'd upvote the post as someone that isn't a woman or married. I'd upvote it because it is a serious topic that should be discussed.
Absolutely this! I bet less than five people who upvoted that had a shared experience.
i think "virtue signaling" is in 99,9% of cases a completely baseless accusation, at least when it is about non-famous people. politicians, celebs and businesses need to advertise themselves to some degree, but normal people have better things to do
@@davejacob5208 False. Normal people keep up correct opinions to be accepted in their social circles all the time.
@@blacksabbath6227 if you equate any form of hiding ones true opinion with "virtue signaling" then you are correct. But since that is not what virtue signaling means, you are wrong.
@@tandem863 who are they? what definition are you talking about? i didn´t get to read one and didnt offer one myself
I really wish men and women would try and be more understanding and compassionate about each other's problems. I am close friends with several women and the stuff that they tell me about their experiences in life is shocking and depressing. And it is quite obvious that there are advantages that I have that they don't. We as men, really need to reflect on this and own our contribution to the bullshit women face. On the flip side, I think women need to listen to struggles and suffering that men face, without trying to negate it or brush it off as not being important. Because it seems to me that many men feel like their problems are always dismissed at the expense of endlessly hearing about women's problems and that is leading to men dismissing any women's struggles out of hand. I feel like it is ridiculous to act like we are on teams too. Most of us have people of the other gender that we care about. Don't we want them to live happy, safe and productive lives?
I was listening to my ex problems but he was always talking about the same problem without doing anything for it, and I try to give advice but he doesn't care about it. When you hear the same problem for 100 time you start to think what the fuck can I do to your fucking problem, just shut up. Solve your problem already. His problem was he hated his boss for years. Change your job. He eventually did that when I stopped listening his problem. Men like to rely on women in everything like it's their job to fix their lives. It's not my job, and I won't do it.
I think you nailed it on the head. This is what both sides need. It's just tough when both sides make broad assumptions based on past experiences.
@@niiskuneitiBANAANI "Men like to rely on women in everything like it's their job to fix their lives." Your one experience with a man doesn't constitute how all men behave, not even the majority. Was your ex in the wrong? Absolutely. But don't shove it under "because he's a man, and all men do that". I can guarantee we don't.
@@niiskuneitiBANAANI You put up with it, so you consented to it
Yeah, everyone has their problems but mens problems arent even touched on. Genital mutilation is effed up and everyone will acknowledge it as they should but no one bats their eyes about circumcision or the boys that are sent off to die in countries either
Just to stress this again: When you hear or see misogyn call it out IN THE SITUATION! Don´t ask us later if we´re "fine", that´s pretty useless because the uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation is ALREADY OVER. If you intervene in the situation you can shorten it but afterwards all your comments don´t mean shit.
I´ve been in situations were I was vocally harrassed in public transport and not a single other passenger intervened but after I got off someone asked me if I was okay and that does not help at all. If he would have told the other guy to shut up while we were in the train, that would have been helpful though
And why would anyone risk a possible physical altercation / even injury for a complete stranger? What, are men obligated to protect the whole of the humanity and you're automatically entitled and deserving of protection? Men aren't here to min / max your comfortable gauge in your life. Situation you find yourself in, you deal with it.
do you really think that attitude compels a random reader of youtube comments to stand up for a random roastie on public transport? If i knew she would talk like this i wouldnt even glance in her direction no matter what. No one would, actually.
I'm not endangering myself on the subway for some random woman. Women aren't entitled to random strangers protection especially if they need to put themselves in danger.
I agree with the additions to the "your mom everywhere" - metaphor in the comments.
I'd like to add the example of doctors visits because I think men can connect to that well because of the difficulties they face around them.
As I understand many men don't go to the doctor often enough or early enough. That there is pressure on them to be "though" and only ever go when it's super bad. (And then it can happen that whatever has been going on in their bodies, has been going on for a while and now treatment is really really difficult/painful/etc. )
Now imagine you finally got yourself to see a doctor. Making the decision was probably not easy for you because of societies bullshit definition of masculinity.
Then you are finally there, explain yourself and your doctor doesn't believe you. They don't believe you are feeling the pain as strong as you are feeling it and tell you you probably just overdid it in the gym or that it's all in your head. Send you home with some generic pain killers or the advice to "rest, eat healthy, maybe loose some weight".
Women get misdiagnosed a lot or not diagnosed at all. Many times symptoms get falsly blamed on periods. There is flat out not enough knowledge about how the female body acts in different medical situations because for the longest time medical research has only been done by men on men for men and the assumption was made that it works the same for female bodies. One example would be that a couple of years ago there was a campaign to inform people that symptoms of heart attacks are different in women then in men.
@@tandem863 your health is 1st, important to you and 2nd important to the people around you 3 the world at large. I don’t know your situation, but I’ll say this, sometimes the people around you will act like they don’t care that it is important (maybe they’re too busy with them selves) until it’s too late or until they wake up or learn about you.
@@tandem863 you’re not a child, no one is supposed to care for your health on your behalf. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself. No one tells me to take care of my health, I do it for myself.
@@tandem863 ... Sounds like you have it rough man. I know there's nothing some random user on youtube like me can say to help you. I want to, but i know i can't. But i do hope you can be okay at some time in the future. And i hope you can hold on until that time comes.
I don't think that's the case for all men. The only thing holding me, a male, back from going to the doctor is thinking about whether its a major problem or a minor problem and whether it would put unnecessary strain over hospitals cos of the current situation.
Also I don't agree with the last paragraph, there is a lot of research being done on the female body, and modern science, at least for the most part isn't gender biased. It never assumes, like that. If there are assumptions that's on the medical staff.
@@ashishyeruva4110 actually the vast majority of research that has been done historically is usually on adult males in regards to most areas of healthcare excluding gynocology and obstetrics. That is why the modern healthcare world is currently trying to fix our knowledge gap in regards to women's health that isn't related to their genitals. That's why you might see a lot of information being circulated about the difference between heart attack symptoms between men and women, etc. But sadly our research on women's general health is severely lacking compared to men's. Not that we aren't trying to fix it but it is a very real problem that is only now starting to be rectified.
I'm trans and this is one weird and interesting thing to discover. Going from straight cis white male to lesbian trans white female you are dropping a lot of privileges you never knew you had... and then there's people that still have it worse. Now, I'm actually still relatively early in my transition, so the worst has yet to come, but at this point I look fairly androgynous so people do read me as female sometimes. I don't think you can truly understand how frightening these experiences are until you feel it yourself. I would do just about anything to avoid going somewhere alone when it's dark outside. The difference in physical strength is so much greater than I ever imagined, and I barely worked out pre-transition. And it's not even that I didn't understand that women had to face misogyny basically daily, but there's just a huge difference between understanding and experiencing it.
Exactly. I think because cis men will never actually experience it, they will never know. And so I think these men truly just need to drop their egos and accept that life is harder and scarier for women and certain precautions and fears will be inevitable and we shouldn’t label as weak, sensitive, stupid, irresponsible or anything like this when discussing their experiences. Just take what women say at face value and don’t argue with it
I think that the analogy of being accosted by your mom is interesting. I would say that a more apt analogy would be like being accosted by the homeless, because it illustrates both sides of the issue.
No one enjoys being asked for money just walking down the street. It doesn't usually make anyone appreciate how fortunate they are to have money, even though it might be true. Suppose you've just walked past ten homeless people in a row who have all asked you for money, and each time you've had to be polite and say "no, sorry, I don't have any change", and you feel guiltier each time. Eventually you find the guilt-tripping a little frustrating. The eleventh person asks you for money and you snap back "no, get a job". You don't feel great for doing that, but what do they expect to happen when they keep bothering people for money? You're entitled to refuse them anyway, because it's your money.
Now suppose that you're the homeless person, and you're really down on your luck. You have a hard time holding down a stable job, and so you fell into homelessness and have been on the streets for months or maybe years. You're cold, and you'd really like to get enough money to get into a shelter for the night, or at least get a sandwich or something. You don't like to feel like you're making other people uncomfortable, but how else will you get into the shelter tonight? Most people you ask for money ignore you, and then one person snaps at you and says "no, get a job". You don't feel great, but you get it. You continue to ask people for money anyway, because it's still cold outside.
Edit:
To clarify some misconceptions in the replies about this analogy -
1. Someone might be literally homeless for any number of reasons, and I wasn't implying that people are literally homeless because they don't like to work. I also don't condone abuse of the literally homeless.
2. I wasn't implying with the analogy that women are responsible for either causing or fixing "homeless" men. It was also unintentional to paint the "homeless" men in a more sympathetic light than the "pedestrian" women, but depending on who exactly the "homeless" men are, it may either strengthen or weaken the analogy. However, it definitely was my intention to imply that the existence of "homelessness" is something of a social problem, with a number of social causes and remedies.
3. I'm well aware that some people are scared that the "homeless" they encounter might become aggressive, and in my view this enhances my analogy.
4. Comparing men to beggars in this analogy was not a mistake. The seemingly common view that men are in a dominant position in every interaction is precisely the reason why I chose the homelessness analogy in the first place. Women, on average, are more selective in mate choice than men (for good evolutionary reasons), and this puts men at a disadvantage in this context. This is why we see that it is men who approach women in the first place, and not the other way around.
Exactly, the power dynamic just isn't correct with the mom analogy. Women actually have more power in these types of encounters.
yea except that everytime you say no, theres a chance of getting assaulted by the homeless person
That is slightly more accurate, but I'd change a couple elements of that analogy:
Imagine that the first couple of guys who ask for money are pleasant, polite, nonconfrontational. They make it easy for you to say "sorry, I can't right now" and move on.
Then the next guy is holding/hiding something that might or might not be a weapon. You can't really tell. He's in a bit of an aggressive stance. It's unclear whether or not he poses a threat to you. You're scared to say no but you do and, luckily, he backs off.
The next guy doesn't back off. The next guy SCREAMS at you and gets in your face and makes you terrified. So scared that you can't even say anything to the next few people you meet. You just ignore their request and brush past them. You don't want to engage at all.
The next guy comes up at you out of nowhere. He hits you over the head, you pass out, he rifles through your clothes and takes your money.
The next guy shows up all nice and pleasant, brushes you off, gives you some water, picks you up out of the street. He seems kind. Then he asks you for money. You don't have any left to give. He gets angry and hostile when you refuse, he yells at you, he walks away, no longer willing to give any help.
The next couple of guys who come up to ask for money are just like the first ones -- pleasant, polite, nonconfrontational....at first. But they get annoyed and angry when you say "sorry, I can't right now." They blame you. They call you names. They shame you for not having any money, or for not giving it to them. They act as if it's their right to get some money. They criticize you for being scared. They threaten to hurt you. They spit on you and leave.
And THEN when you've absolutely had it and you yell at the next guy (who might indeed be good, and kind, and down on his luck), who doesn't know that you've had all these previous encounters, he blames you. It's not HIS fault cause he's so good and kind. So you clearly must just be a heinous b*tch for yelling.
And imagine that this isn't just one street you're walking down, this is every. single. part. of your life. You can't get away from this dark alley where guys keep coming up to ask for money and you don't know whether they pose a threat, or if they're safe to say no to. If they will accept your refusal or if they will threaten or hurt you because of it. It is inescapable. Work. School. Gym. Street. Bus. Neighborhood. Out to dinner with friends. At a bar. Online. In game. In servers. In youtube comments. In politics. Everywhere.
As long as we also acknowledge that women risk violence with these encounters. It's rarely just a guilty feeling, there's a hefty amount of worry and fear over the "homeless's'" reaction to being told No. Of course the vast majority of people accept being rejected, but when there's a possibility of one's life/body being threatened, one can never be too careful.
I feel like your metaphor also places the responsibility to fix the "homeless" onto the women in this situation? "But how else will you get into the shelter tonight?"
A woman's attention/body will not fix that lonely feeling. At best, it slaps a bandaid over a gunshot wound. Speaking with a therapist can be very useful. Seeking help is respectable and honorable.
@@catherine31544 @Four Leaves
Well, I think the homeless analogy is fairly extensible for the fact that people are generally intimidated by the homeless, too. Sometimes we're better off assuming that they could turn aggressive with us at any moment, because the risk is high, even if the probability is low.
I also think that the analogy could be extended in terms of how you would solve this problem. Obviously, it's not helpful to just suggest that the homeless get jobs; there's a reason they're in the place they are. They need more help than that. Of course, that isn't to say that the responsibility to care for the homeless falls on every person who walks past, but we can't expect the situation to change by placing all the responsibility for fixing homelessness on the homeless themselves. Homelessness is also a social problem.
The 'your mom being everywhere' analogy is the best I've heard. I've heard so many men saying things like, "I'd be flattered if every girl was hitting on me" and I never know how to explain how uncomfortable and scary it is to constantly be sexualised.
I think if you tell an average-sized straight man to imagine having huge gay gym-bros aggressively hitting on them every time they go out, it is a better illustration.
Also, hopefully you are sure your mom won't rape or kill you.
The fear of being sa is VERYYYY real and always brushed off by it happens to men too. When it's a different feeling overall, they still don't have to consider that everytime they are put alone
The your mom thing doesn't work for me. My mom is nice and doesn't hound me. I also am not scared of gym-bro's or gay men. Hard for me to get an idea of what its like for women. I do know what its like having almost no attention ever for my entire life though and its not very fun.
@@Kaybye555 yeah, the mom analogy doesn't capture the actually physical danger that I as a small woman feel. Its a lot more than just being nagged or annoyed, it can be frightening
@Ulrik not every man you see. It is not the same thing as every time you are out alone you have to lookout just in case
Great way to brush off where some of us live. Glad to see you don't have to go through that. Many women have been kidnap where I live and where I work so I recommend you be more considerate of others situations
Dr. K is right that it happens within relationships too. When I broke up with my ex, he asked me for more time before I cut contact so we could have a day where he wanted a "mock relationship". We would do all the things we used to do as a couple including intimacy, so he could "leave things with a clean slate and have closure" so whether or not he got closure was basically put onto me. Because I am not comfortable giving that sort of access to my body outside of the confines of a relationship, I said no I'm not comfortable with that, he tried to propose "warming me up" before we got into it, which is essentially trying to go around my boundary. I said "No" again to his proposal and he responded with "This is going to sound harsh but just leave me to rot, I'll be fine eventually" then proceeded to tell me about how men get all the shit in society. That is the kind of reaction I get for saying no to sex with an ex. I know now from that relationship that that is not a normal way to treat someone not every man I encounter to treat me like so.
Just very happy to read that he is an ex. Disgusting.
aww, he missed the seggs
okay, but more seriously, it's kind of unreal how often dudes perceive me as a different species. (I'm certain there are girls who get this even more often than I do if they happen to be shorter or have a higher voice.) I get infantalized pretty regularly. Like, my opinions not taken seriously or getting talked over when guys are holding a convo, but if they're romantically interested they put me on a pedestal and believe me to be pure and infallible. I've legit had 2 dudes say that i saved them and that's why they don't need therapy. Like, they didn't ask if they could confide in me regularly, they just assumed I'd be there to hear out all their problems. It got to the point where one of them would text me at 4am to tell me to wake up so I could sing them to sleep. I wasn't dating that one either, we were friends. I'm slowly trying to distance myself from them so they're feelings don't get hurt; as much as it ain't my problem, I wish them the best in getting out of a bad mindset.
The “best analogy” of an ever-present nagging mother also perfectly illustrates misogyny and default responsibility. It’s not a nagging father/parent. It’s not a person who (hopefully) cares about you asking you to complete essential chores, act responsibly, and be a contributing member of a larger unit.
This analogy also misses the fear, violence, sexual assault, victim blaming, etc. that permeate female experiences globally. For example, a legitimate fear for men in dating is rejection. But the equally legitimate, daily fears of women include being assaulted, raped, or even killed - not only by strangers or dates, but long-term partners as well.
This is part of that hard-mode difference. (And the list could go on - how the male experience is considered the cultural default, the heterosexual double-bind where men gain social currency from sex while women face negative social consequences, how men are raised to feel entitled to sex/jobs/status/etc while women’s needs are often seen as lesser, the male gaze and over-sexualization of women without consent, etc.)
Thanks for addressing this topic Dr. K! The work you do with the gaming community is awesome. :D
Bingo. I also found it ironic that he used an analogy that was deeply misogynistic. And yes, it absolutely glosses over the fact that it isn't a mere annoyance - it's often very literally life or death.
The analogy also fails because your parents are not trying to smash you, hopefully.
“For example, a legitimate fear for men in dating is rejection. But the equally legitimate, daily fears of women include being assaulted, raped, or even killed - not only by strangers or dates, but long-term partners as well.”
Female on male domestic violence is just as common, and the guy is victim blamed by being told to man up when it happens. A female domestic abuser gets barely a slap on the wrist compared to the hard sentences the man would suffer for the same crime. Men being rejected is not the equivalent of those female fears you listed, the equivalent is being falsely accused of rape or assault then having to prove his own innocence without the courtesy of an investigation. Or being divorced raped and drained of everything he’s worth.
Everyone should agree that misogyny exists in the world, and it exists and is perpetuated in truly awful ways. Yet the places where it exists the least, the women complain the most. I think the discussions in these realms always get stuck b/c women want men to listen and understand their experiences, but by the very nature of that, you participate in the perpetuation of a narrative that the female experience is by default worse than mens’. There is already an elevation of female emotional experience as being more neglected than that of men, and purports a worldview where only women can be the victims of men and not vice versa or anything in between. Y’all don’t think we can experience fear, or harassment, or violence from both other men, (and women, who now make up the majority of domestic violence perpetrators). In addition, you make an argument that women’s life is on ‘hard-mode’ b/c they face negative social consequences from sex; we all know that isn’t really true except when a girl goes around with multiple people, which is seen negatively if EITHER sex does it. It also demonstrates how ignorant you are of the average male experience in the world of sexuality, and yet you want all of these men to understand you and listen to your experiences, and how they affect your worldview. Let’s face the facts; the average women doesn’t give a shit about the thoughts or experiences of an average or even slightly above average but not exceptional man, and even then it’s conditional. And now women are furious because MEN no longer care about THEIR experiences. And why should they? Let’s face the reality that women participate in the perpetuation of misogyny as much as men do and also work endlessly to undermine male authority because they see it as patriarchal. The problem with that is once you eradicate the good male authorities, the only people who might be left to step up to the plate are authoritarian women or men. So now women want to treat mens image like it’s trash, not even acknowledge most men, but want them to be willing to put themselves in danger as well as listen to the experiences of women who don’t even want to see men as a person outside of their capacity to do something for a woman. It’s the attitude, if men can admit there are really bad men and we should do everything we can to expose and stop them, women should agree the same thing about really bad women, yet that’s not what happens at all in society. Women laugh at other women’s horrible behavior towards men and see it as a step forward, that is the problem that most men see. There is no way men could get away with treating the female experience the way women collectively treat the male experience.
@@honkhonk5181 Just as common but not just as severe. They are not equivalent, at all.
Also, being falsely accused of rape is not on the same level as being raped.
Add in the stalking, I don't know how but men on dating apps keep finding me outside them, even when I use burner emails and don't link any other apps. It's been like once or twice after a coffee elsewere, that they find my facebook, despite no location, and they don't know my last name.
I wish that whenever I get harassed in a game for being female, not just one but multiple men in the lobby would tell the harasser to shut the fuck up. Men will call each other simp if only one calls it out, but if there's more than one calling it out, the harasser will be the one who feels like he's losing. If men don't want to be lumped in with the bad ones, they HAVE to call out the bad ones. They gotta step up and show some backbone because just silently listening to it unfold while just one or none come to her defense makes them almost as bad. Like, come on, guys. As a chick I step up and do the same for you if the friendly ribbing goes into hostile territory. We all need to be each others' allies and do our part to put a stop to sexism and toxicity the moment we encounter it.
THIS. It's not enough to simply sit there and claim it isn't your problem. It's like sitting there and watching a person of color being beaten and doing nothing.
Sounds like some kumbaya shit ngl
Why does a man have to come save you? Are they a colony, responsible for each other?
I agree that it would feel nice to have broad-based community support against harassment. Of course, it's great to be able to advocate for oneself but the idea that it would be part of dude culture to ostracize harassers from online games is a wish that is a worthy one.
Everyone gets treated like shit on the internet. Stop being a crybaby and learn to take it on your own, just like every guy has done.
I'm a cis woman. For whatever reason, I have never experienced the worst of sexual violence, and my own bad experiences have been few and far between.
My main experience of misogyny in male-dominated spaces has been coming across man after man who simply doesn't see me as being fully human. These men aren't overtly misogynistic, aren't being violent or rapey or anything like that, but somehow make me feel like I don't belong--not just in their space, but to the human race. These men treat us in different ways--they treat us like angels, like aliens, like animals, like NPCs... Anything but like human beings with the same emotional landscape, the same complex inner world that a man has.
Even in a violence- and rape-free community, men like this would still be making women feel like we don't belong. Like we're still the unknowable Other. But it's a much harder problem to treat. The only way to fix this is exposure and empathy. That means making communities welcoming toward women, but also making sure things truly are fair and equal. Women can't be treated as subhuman, but we can't be treated as untouchable angelic beings, either.
We just wanna be treated as human beings with human problems.
I'm a married man. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to get shitty the instant someone said something bad to my wife or her friends. Dehumanizing stuff where you treat a woman as lesser is disgusting and shouldn't be tolerated.
However, we do actually have to treat women with kid gloves. A lot of women I know say they wish to be treated "just like one of the guys." My wife complained about how I act different with my friends and that we treat her and the other wives differently. Eventually one night she asked made it clear she didn't want to be treated differently. She wanted to us to say all of the same things we said to each other to her. The night quickly got tense and my wife and I ended up leaving game night early, where she immediately burst into tears in the car because we were being "rude and bullying her." We weren't doing either, but simply talking to her like we talked to each other. I'm not even talking about slurs or anything. Something as simple as "come on dumdum stop blocking the fridge" is as rough as it got. This is how guys talk to each other.
Exposure helps, but it helps in teaching men the correct way to change their actions/speech when they talk to a girl. A lot of men with minimal exposure to women panic and act extremely strangely because they simply haven't had the exposure to know how to act.
@@P4brotagonist you bring up an important point, but I think that this isn't necessarily something that always happens along gender lines. Perhaps there are gendered *patterns,* but there are still plenty of individual *exceptions.*
For example, I have known many men who were very sensitive and experienced gentle teasing as bullying. I have also known women who were very hard-assed and got along great in the kinds of masculine environments you're describing.
What we need to do is treat individuals the way that they want to be treated. Sensitive people should be allowed to be sensitive, and tough people should be allowed to be tough. Treating someone with kid gloves because they need it or asked you to is a lot different from treating someone with kid gloves even when they actively don't want that.
No way it's all here. Right here in front of me I cant fucking believe it. You have it all.🤩
Starting off with the iconic Gaslight🔥 and 😒Dismissal "it's all in your head.😌" And then right into ⬇️Downplaying the issue "dehumanization is natural and I see it as more of a simple crush. I think women have REAL problems😒" implying this is not also a real problem. Jumping into a "sharing your experiences can radicalize normal men😫." A solid Shut Down🛑 but he ain't done yet!! "Recognizing that most people adhere to their gender roles huh?🤔 He's the REAL misogynist!" Isnt the most original 🛡Deflection I've seen but it's better than nothing. "Um actually you're the one making ME feel bad, by talking about how you felt😢." Woah! Talk about a wambo🎆combo! Not only do we have a Double 🛡Deflection🛡 back to back but we also have a Guilt Trip✈, with implications of a 🛑Shut Down! Truly amazing!!! "How am I supposed to meet my wife if I cant talk to strangers in public spaces🥺??" Unfortunately our ride must end here. A weak conclusion as our man forgets that mutual🤝friends, coworkers, chance🎲encounters like accidents, mix ups and unfortunate events🚨 can all have you building connections without bothering someone in a space where they're typically focused and busy. It's a tragic story truly, but the sun must set eventually☀️
@@clockwork4255 Thank you!
"I don't get cat calls while I walk down the street so cat calls are not a problem" thinks the average man >.>
Honestly, the average man could not fathom a life of constant attention and feeling valued.
@@ostravaofboletaria1027 *unwanted attention and feeling valued like an object
I think it's really important to explain that the annoyance is also driven by fear of things escalating, it's a danger us guys really don't have to deal with to the same extent
The worst thing for me is that there are assholes and then there are the 'nice guys' who are assholes in disguise. I've lost friends over this because I trusted guys and they turn out to slowly over time drop subtle hints until every time they message you and you see them it's so confusing because they've always been so nice and now they are trying to get you to think of them naked or something. They randomly be suggestive but but then act like your best friend. It's probably even worse when you are also in a relationship and they know it because it's so disrepectful. So you don't always know who is going to be an asshole. That's the worst part. I'm still upset over this one friend I lost months ago because of this kind of behaviour but I honestly hate him now.
It's hard to realize a person who acts friendly may not be your friend.
Because they like you and were too awkward to ask you out. It's not some nefarious tactic by men, it's literally them not wanting to come in too strong so they think being friends you two can develop feelings naturally. People aren't "assholes" because they are too awkward and nervous to just straight up ask you out when they first realized they liked you, and usually they aren't faking the friendship either, the friendship is genuine, but they want more than just friendship
the greatest compliment I ever received was an ex girlfriends roommate telling me I felt safe. Still working on the whole internalized misogyny thing but I think about that a lot and my goal is to be that for people.
I'm a girl who plays DnD with randoms on the internet and while I've predominantly played with guys, I am grateful to be incredibly lucky to never encounter much misogyny. Maybe I have, but they weren't ever explicit enough for me to be that uncomfortable. I've only ever encountered the "Oh, look there is someone with two X chromosomes" styled comments in Overwatch. Dumped that game and never looked back lol.
DnD usually has a very different community
There needs to be an understanding on both sides here. Women want men to understand that they don't like unsolicited attention or being complimented out of nowhere, but they should also understand that the reason men do this is because if it ever happened to us it would make our day. It would be the absolute highlight of our week, we would lock it away as a permanent, happy memory that we could go back to for a fraction of that warm, fuzzy feeling we got from the original interaction. I can still remember the last time I was complimented by a woman, in April of 2020 when I backed my trailer into a spot at a crowded truck stop without running into the truck next to me. The driver in that truck called me "a true professional" without a hint of sarcasm and I will never forget the surge of pride that flowed through me in that moment. Nothing like that had ever happened to me before and nothing like it has happened to me since. I have never gotten hit on by anyone before, but I imagine it would feel similar to the truck stop compliment. So when I want to compliment a girl, my instinct is that I can give her that same euphoric sense of pride that she's capable of giving me just by telling her I like what she's done with her hair or something, and it is only videos like these that remind me that they hear that sort of thing all the time, and I should bite my tongue.
My point is, I think the reason men give so much unwanted attention to women and often ignore their complaints about it, is because it can feel like you're starving while listening to someone complain that McDonald's keeps sending unsolicited meals to their house, and they're sick of fast food.
also i love the point about "do your part without overdoing it" because i think women just want some sort of recognition for what they go through and some more equality when it comes to chores or cooking (esp if both partners are working). I think the state of male vs female relations these days can actually make a lot of men stressed out due to the shame of the way men acted before them. but women do not need you to go above and beyond, they don't need you to redeem the sins of the dead-- they just want you to do your part, and be normal about it. don't expect congratulations, or special attention for just doing your part. just be a normal person and you won't have to worry if you're helping out enough, you will know if you do.
I need to add reproductive health issues to the list of reasons that being born AFAB *can* mean doing life on hard mode. While I know that things like prostate cancer and erectile dysfunction are major problems for men that can affect both their physical and mental health, women literally deal with fluctuating hormones their entire lives. Hormones have an enormous affect on a persons wellbeing. Things like PME, PMDD, postpartum depression and anxiety can be life destroying. Hormones are not easily controlled or even understood, and yet, most of the responsibility for birth control lies on women which is more often that not the manipulation of a woman’s hormones and menstrual cycle. There is a research gap despite the overwhelming amount of women (1 in 3) that do or will struggle with their reproductive health - less than 2.5% of publicly funded research is dedicated to reproductive health. There is 5 times more research put in to erectile dysfunction which affects 19% of men, than into premenstrual syndrome which affects 90% of women. Not to mention that pregnancy and giving birth are inherently hard on the body and in some cases fatal. Also, there are more and more women coming forward to talk about how often their pain is dismissed by their primary care physician. This is made even more poignant by the fact that doctors push for women to get IUD’s as their main form of birth control and yet they rarely offer any pain prevention or anesthesia for the procedure despite many women finding it excruciatingly painful to the point of passing out. Lots of disparity to explore in the realm of reproductive health… Any man who loves a woman who has had to deal with something like severe postpartum depression can attest to how devastating the affects of hormonal issues can be.
yes!!!! thank you for this post
Just out of curiosity, are you aware of the suicide rates among men?
sounds fake
@@Chris-ki2dx god shut the FU/CK up oh my god are you serious? ONE post about women and you come in "ok but men"
We.
Don't.
Care.
Right.
Now.
There is a time and a place to talk about men. This ain't it.
@@Chris-ki2dx way to show you don't give a fuck about anything said by OP or in the video
The fact that he thinks women have default responsibility is really misogyny when you think about it.
Imagine the point of the entire video being about blaming men and thinking women are held accountable
"I don't see race"
I only really interact with your platform on UA-cam so I can't speak to the feel of your community at large, but I really appreciated your analogies of being hounded by your mom and default responsibility. I feel like it was a pretty good way to explain what it is like to walk the world as a woman that would be easier for cisgender men to understand.
I also wanted to post here that misogynistic behavior can be a conditioned response rather than a conscious choice (much like your first example where you said to notice if the reaction to your statement was to dismiss or to listen). One of the most striking examples I gave my husband was when I pointed out that when we were out with his friends, all of whom are genuinely good dudes, they would consistently talk over me and they didn't even realize it because it was a conditioned behavior. From that day on when my husband noticed I was being spoken over, he would stop his friends, point out they were talking over me, and would give me the space to finish. Then his friends started noticing they had the tendency to talk over not just me, but other women and they worked on the behavior, and it has made a big impact on them too and on their relationships with women.
Just some encouragement for those who come across this who are feeling uncomfortable with the idea that they might be seen as misogynistic when they don't want to be. A little self-awareness and the willingness to listen and internalize what women are saying about the behaviors that harm us can go a really long way, and if you learn from any mistakes you make and work to do better, that's really all anyone can ask for and it does make a big difference.
Listening and understanding are virtues massively lacking in society and the internet (excluding trolls and people who are full of hate since they not there to engage in healthy discussions anyways). You make a good point that as long as people try to understand each other and you make an active effort to reconsider your beliefs then afterwards try adjusting some behaviors/actions (even if they don't fully agree with everything the other person believes). You know maybe people should remember that no one chooses to "exist" (life is unfair and full of a lot suffering and we also die like bruh lol) but it's everyone's responsibility to try their best to be their own hero and try to make the world a better place.
I’m so glad you brought this up this is such an issue both in and outside of gaming and I’m glad you put more nuance behind the label to really express what it means. I hope one day we really can all just be people
I appreciate that you made this video, you've clearly put a lot of thought & consideration into this & that's just fucking awesomesauce. I'm not here to critique anything, I just wanna give kudos & say keep checking your blind spots & keep listening to people who don't look like you or share your identities. I can't even begin to say how much I've learned just over the last 2 years specifically from Black Women. Kadije Mbowe in particular has been shining lights on all kinds of blind spots I didn't even think I'd have as someone who considers themselves pretty aware.
& if you're having those gut reactions of "wait no not me" or whatever, know that that's normal & everyone has those feelings. They're normal growing pains & we just need to realize we suck as individuals sometimes - it's totally normal.
*Edit: I lied, I have 1 critique: we don't take our online spaces seriously enough & that's particularly ironic or whatever to see here. Our online spaces are meaningful & it takes a lot of effort to moderate & cultivate good spaces for people. I'm not familiar with the post in question about the guy that takes his reddit admin as seriously as a job so I don't know the specifics there but moderating communities isn't easy & I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong for taking that as seriously as a job. I don't know about yall but I really appreciate a well modded community. It's a lot more than just approving posts & autoblocking terms or whatever.
Her dismissal of something that's clearly important to him also bothers me & I think I would've personally chosen a different example as this one already has some inflammation lol but any, I digress.
Good video! Keep up the good work!
The way you broke down into steps and explained your thought process was very nice.
While I generally agree with the sentiment of the video, I think him saying that women are "on hard mode" kind of does a disservice to his point. Men need to understand that women experience life in a different way that can be better or worse, but women also need to understand that men experience life in a different way that can be better or worse. Being a man or woman is not better, it is different.
When you have the immediate assumption that being a woman is straight up worse, you start to feel pity and not empathy.
True but it really depends on where you are born. This argument of hard mode becomes much more concise when you take the worst countries to be born as a woman where you're literally property from day 1. But I do agree with the sentiment, especially the pity part.
It doesn't even make me feel pity, It does the complete opposite in fact. As a man that hears women have it on hard mode just makes me want to tear down the argument and prove how they have it so much easier. Essentially making it into an argument
@@OffSetMeat yeah that's a hot take from Dr. K
Off topic but where can I find the Madotsuki image in your pfp? Nice
@@SnakeHelah You are not literal property from day 1 as a woman anywhere.. I dont know where you guys keep pulling this crap from, its literally not a thing, never has been
"lol noob did you do your laundry"
The image of my mom joining Twitch chat and saying this... Fucking hilarious.
honestly the biggest thing i took away from this is that youre not allowed to interact with women
Then you didnt watch the video.
@@cookieguy9885 So do you.
@@saaaaaaaaadasda What?
If you're an attractive male facially, it's far more likely you're not going to be called "creepy" for daring to interact with females. Sad but true.
and you clearly don't have good learning comprehension.
I remember working as a cashier and having these two ladies come up to my register, normal routine. Right as they were leaving some dude came in wanting to do a return and right as he stepped in he saw them, completely changed his demeanor and started hitting on them, say he "knew me" for some kind of clout, then proceeded to follow them out of the store trying to get their numbers before I could even process what was going on. Personally I don't think any one gender has it holistically more difficult, and I even think that arguing who has it worse is antithetical towards progress. However, if you're a guy and you really think women have it easy or you try to discredit their experiences I strongly urge you to actually talk to women. Stuff that we do without even thinking about they have to consciously plan out and struggle with. It's too easy to be absorbed in your own struggles, but be open minded.
Yes woman have it easy and stats suggest so. Just consider this:
75% of suicides are men (since their life is easier u would guess it's the other way around)
75% of homeless people are men
93% of work place fatalities are men
77% of murder victims are men
98% of military deaths are men
Most people on prison are men
Men have 5 years lower life expectancy
Well pretty much if you take those stats into consideration women do have it easier
The "help out around the house" thing as apposed to having responsibility made something audibly click in my mind. I'm not overtly misogynistic but that made me realise there's a subtext misogyny too.
It would also be cool to hear from Mrs. K on this if there's any further discussion.
Imma just say first the stories of women are valid. There is a flip side that people pretend dont exist or worse try to supress. Many men would say they get zero attention at all, which would explain why some act like they are starving for it.
Man or woman, it's a trade-off. I've been that kind of lonely man and I can't say I would want that female experience either, I know some women suffer from this lack of attention too. I really wouldnt wish either experience on anyone.
I personally get frustrated when the other side is discounted. Sure men generally don't deal with that particular experience of excess attention, but men with money do, tall men do, and on the flip side men who think loneliness is exclusive to them and say women dont understand... well, some do. I've spoken to some who related and we bonded on it.
Do women live on hard mode? I resent that statement. I've seen men and women who live on hard mode and men and women who live on easy mode. Humans live through diverse experiences based on geographical location, socio-economic position, born with medical conditions, and this ISN'T fucking reducible to team sports. People get angry about these topics if their experience is downplayed and invalidated with labels 'm' or 'f' to drive for a political advantage to their 'team' and that anger drives people to extremist forums where they WILL find validation for their experiences that no one outside will validate.
"Men just can't understand"
"Women don't get it"
Even insofar as "default responsibility" Dr K mentions, men can't understand? My wife and I refuse to send out kid to daycare until she is old enough to speak (for her own protection). I'm sure a lot of men can relate when I say: if I don't work every day, we will not have a house to clean or food to cook. Many men would say that is their share of default responsibility during those critical months/years after childbirth that coincidentally get forgotten when it's time to ask for policy, government grants, votes, jobs, pay raises, etc.
When we use these labels to COMPARE our experiences these ways, "male/female", "HARD MODE", "x or y just don't get it"... well Dr K did talk about comparisons and what that means.
I think it ultimately depends on the country a lot. Dr.K generalizes a lot to prove his points. It's always going to happen and I don't think it's a bad thing, but obviously, there's a whole lot of nuance involved. I'm no woman so I can't really speak for them, but I'm just looking at everything through the cultural lens, because ultimately, what is expect of men AND women is decided a lot by culture. And culture is constantly changing.
Some countries are just really fucked up culturally and IMO those really do start women with the "hard mode" attribute. Think Islamic countries, etc. you're basically the man's property. First, your father's afterwards, your husband's etc. What choice do you even have in those cases? It's not even hard mode, you're almost reduced to an NPC. So yeah, that's really horrible.
Just, I don't think it's even comparable to western countries, where the hard mode comes from "being hit on all the time" and similar aspects. Yeah, in a way it's hard mode, but some women have it way easier than others depending on where they are born.
We live on hard mode because of the minstrel cycle
@@SnakeHelah agree with you 100% but this stuff tends to in my experience get oversimplified to the point of "WOMEN VS THE PATRIARCHY" when 90%+ of men don't get to share in the privileges, just the penalties brought it to "equalize". I'm personally just so tired of problems being tied to a group label because the solutions tend to be applied the same way, but reality aimply does not organize itself according to our concepts of groups. Understandably, women do have commonly shared yet diverse experiences that others do not (with rare exception), but I do not think the public is able to have a rational honest and objective discussion on what those experiences are without devolving into "speaking for all (wo)men" and claiming ownership of victimhood for political gain.
Exactly dude.
I was driven to such things when people would discount my experience being raped and accused of rape, and people just discounted and said I was the creep and it's like I have no humanity left and just held this giant ball of hatred in my heart that no one would care about.
@@BlissAnimations I understand that point, and I wouldn't try to take away from that. Consider men may experience things that women don't. The generalization that women have to experience rocky hormone levels and men don't, for example, is not true. Men do not experience rocky hormone levels specifically due to menstruation, (ignoring the exceedingly rare exceptions).
Broad generalities not based in objective reality don't fix problems is my point and for someone to pretend they do means someone's not being honest and the ego is running the show. Then letting this devolve into tribal competition that hurts people and communities broadly is sociopathic evil shit. People driving trucks through crowds, doxing people to make sure they cant earn a living for themselves and their families, publically fantasizing on Twitter for people to pass through woodchippers... the group labels cause us to distance ourselves from the individuals and let us lie to ourselves that we know them based on their "group" label. The human spirit doesn't have a group.
It's really sad that Dr. K didn't do a fair and just assessment of misogyny and accusations of it in our society. His audience is mostly men. But he catered to the Feminist overlords, at least in large parts. Women's lives are on hard mode? Compared to who exactly?! They don't seem to be struggling to me. They seem to be having such an easy time of it that they go out of their way to take risks for fun. It's men's fault? Men do everything they can to make women's lives safe and wonderful. Which is how women got so comfortable that they started making trouble.
They're only able to do this complaining thanks to all of the gifts men have given them (literally sheltering them from everything dangerous). But do they appreciate men? No. They lie about history and claim that men have been oppressing women instead of caring for them. Nothing could be further from the truth. Men have been literally surviving for everyone. Men have had it the hardest, not women.
And what is women's thanks? To turn against men and bed with daddy government instead. Everybody knows the laws favor women unfairly, but nobody cares. Because THIS IS NOT AN EQUAL WORLD and it never tried to be. Feminism is not about equality. It is about female privilege. Pure and simple. Anybody with a brain knows this. And women have been unfairly cast above the men they depend on in social status. And the result: is absolute chaos in relationships and very damaged children (the first crop of which is now doing their best to be an adult under these impossible circumstances that have been just assigned to them without a say).
But no no, Dr K., it's fine, hide behind the lies you must obey. It's not like you're in a privileged position or anything where you might actually be safe to speak freely about the injustices of gender politics. And if you actually think that women's lives are harder compared to men's lives (and that's because of men instead of because of their own doing) then I think you seriously need to reevaluate reality yourself. Some big thinkers are already calling it out. It's sad that you catered to the harpy sisters instead of the majority of men and women that deserve to just have a goddamned peaceful life together. Women need to stop complaining about nothings and start holding each other accountable and get back to giving men the support they need. Because clearly men can't hold women accountable under the current system of "government". And so far they haven't held each other accountable at all. Which I find disgusting. To watch women abusing their power and enjoy that instead of despise that. Fucking gross.
it seems to me that this seems to be a topic very close to home for you, so i defer to your greater understanding + experience. While Dr. K can say what he wants, comments like yours get a lot of flak, so i’m not trying to cause trouble
the comments here and the “hard mode” part explain pretty well (to me) the situation women are in. Yes, women do receive lots of violence + mutilation + rape + assault + discrimination + abuse + harassment + fucked up standards of beauty / homemaking, plus the “nothings” that ppl call microaggression (lots of places on the internet are full of these “nothings”). But imo men & women are equal; the hardships of one group doesn’t invalidate those of the other (8:04 of the vid acknowledges men’s difficulties). Anyway, male problems are generally different. We shouldn’t go so far as to say that women have it wonderful and men take all the shit, though.
yes, men do a lot of good in society. Not everything we can - how many men die making babies? and men sure do a lot to make women’s lives harder and more unsafe - not just talking about restriction of freedom, education, and wages, but which sex commits more physical and sexual harm to the other? It’s easy to find out by reading the comments here, or just scrolling through the news, or asking pretty much anyone. You may believe that the government and the history books are controlled by women (or brainwashed men, given the number of men in government / academia), and i’d love to hear the “big thinkers” that you mentioned, but if women have so much power, why does the traditional mindset throughout history in most places tend to be misogynistic. Not trying to generalize or invalidate your experiences, though, but more evidence seems to point to the idea that women have it pretty rough
That too is a trick though. They won't start having adult conversations. It's much easier and better to just keep playing the girl card whenever it suits them. So that's what they'll do. Until we say enough and just FORCE THEM TO BE EQUAL under the law. No more privilege. Give them what they claim they want. Equality. We'd never hear the end of it...
@@freefallwefall Yeah maybe the comments are a trick. It's all a big conspiracy by bots or whatever. Also i think societies have often made women less than equal, maybe sometimes more than equal, but it would be interesting to figure out what "equal" equal means
If my psychologist would say that I have life on easy mode because of my genitals I'd be looking for a new one in no time
Absolutely. Though he's just cowtowing to the left as most UA-camrs and streamers are nowadays. Otherwise the mob comes for you, you know.