Do Turkish Shotguns Suck?
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- The Barely Tactical team gets scientific and answers the question you've all been asking - do Turkish shotguns suck? We take the Impact R4 and Solun Tac-12 through their paces and present the unfiltered truth. A must watch before you buy a Turknelli (AKA Turkish Benelli Clone)!!!
Former gun store employee. Turkish shotguns (and handguns) are just horrible overall. Some are better than others, but generally they will have problems more often that not. A customer's Girsan pistol (MC9) literally exploded lmao and I got to see the photos too. Shotguns falling apart, reports of constant malfunctions. Also, the accessories that came with it were inconsistent, with missing/duplicate chokes (sometimes missing the entire choke set), and configuration would also vary by each shipment without us being notified beforehand (e.g. cheap and flimsy telescoping stocks being changed to a standard cheap and flimsy fixed stocks), while the SKU remained the same so there was no way to tell unless each individual one was inspected - initially we did not have the manpower to do so, but it got to the point I volunteered to check them off-hours along with the sales manager. Why would I volunteer to do free work? Because finding the 'problematic' ones first was better than dealing with an enraged customer who felt wronged (rightfully) and made unreasonable demands for compensation (unrightfully IMO).
As an aside, by the way, Canik handguns get praised everywhere for reportedly being cheap, comes in 'pro' configurations such as with competition sights and such, more spare mags and sometimes an extra holster, and being dead reliable. While most of those points are correct, the last point is not. They are indeed superior to their Girsan counterparts, but that's a very low bar. All my friends that owned one or more have eventually encountered reliability issues that cannot be resolved by thorough cleaning, and ultimately and inevitably, parts breakages. Good luck getting broken components repaired or replaced from the manufacturer in Turkey. If you are lucky enough to have it RMA'ed, you will at best be waiting for several months for the replacement to come, but most of the time, you will only hear radio silence when trying to communicate with the manufacturer directly because the warranty service provider is totally incapable of doing their jobs and resolving the issue.
My semiautomatic Turkish shotgun is just as good as any bolt action shotgun
Bolt action can be useful.
A bolt action is probably more reliable for functionality than a turkish made firearm.
Have never had a single issue out of my MAC1014
Good call on the lab coats in the testing field gents. Really legitimized your studies. Keep up the good work!
We like to look professional; we are real scientists. I promise.
My Sulun Tac-12 works flawlessly - just as good as a real Benelli M4
You didnt have a single X for the Sulun.. and a lot of check marks - how was it not a pass?
Middle of the road with some shells just aint good enough for you huh? - try a real Benelli with all of those different shells.. and you might even just get an X..
Dont hate on a good shotgun just because it comes from Turkey.
It had some soft primer strikes. Its okay, if 80% reliable is good enough. Fun range toy for shooting trash. Not an awful gun but I do like my guns to go bang when I pull the trigger
Thanks for the video guys. I got my eyes on the Canuck Elite Operator. It looks like a similar model but seems to be at a higher price point than both of these models. All of the owners I've met never had any complaints after 400-900 rounds. Do you think it is a better built model?
Our pedestrian insight is they are all made the same. There are multiple factories that make pasts for multiple brands. Factory A makes receivers, B makes stocks etc etc
So tolerances vary. Maybe Canuck uses a different combination of parts
Did you end up buying one. I bought one and I love it
So the answer is… yes they SUCK, SUCK, SUCK.
As a so called expert of Turkish shotguns, as a bird hunter, clay shooter, and user of multiple Turkish shotguns, as well as high end Beretta's, 682, 686, 390. I can tell you why the TSG's I have owned from 28 gauge side by side, to many semi's in 20, and 12 gauge, are so good? Beretta moved tons of CNC machines to Turkey so the Turks can make barrels and parts for the Beretta SG's. Now what do you think the Turks did with all that skill and equipment Beretta just handed them? They made shotguns for their own markets, and even used their own Turkish great looking wood to build them. You guys with your one used SG each think you can judge a whole industry. I have dealt with ignorant, silly, bias at TSG's for many years, one thing you all have in common is you know just enough about SG'S to be dangerous, none of you will take the time and money it takes to become an expert, in your cases, you bought two very used SG's. Wow guess you are experts.
Its really a you tube thing also, I see 1.36 K subs and 8.6 k people took a chance to get your opinion have spoken loud and clear, they learned nothing from what you had to offer, and moved on.
I'm glad you've had a positive experience with TSGs. If they've worked for you keep on using them. We even stipulated we could have gotten lemons - although we have our doubts.
We've gone through about 7 different TSGs between us ranging from their single shot break actions, pump actions and these two m4 clones. All have broken from mild use (we cant afford the volume of ammo to warrant them breaking from natural causes). So the fact us two chumps could get them to break isn't giving them a tonne of credit. One had a shell catch sheer off within the first box... If that happened to any other brand there would have been a recall. All Akkar could offer was to mail use a replacement part.
I'm glad that through the video you could establish how well used they were. We purchased them from a reputable shop, one of which was a shop demo gun with only a couple hundred shells through it. The other was bought and returned for another colour. Not even sure if they shot it - it was clean when we took it apart.
I would enjoy seeing yourself take the time and effort to make a video debunking this. You have 2 potential viewers waiting.
@@barelytactical900 Since 2005 I wrote many articles on the TSG and bought many to test. I would dove hunt with as many as 10 shotguns in the field with me. I even bought a Tristar 28 gauge o/u that was under 5 pounds, by the way came with really nice wood. It was a dream shotgun, came with removable chokes, yep 425 bucks.
I had one TSG that had a problem, and I knew about it before I bought it. Big 5 sporting goods had an ad for a semi 12 gauge (Turkish) that came with two barrels and removable chokes. sale price 299.00. I went and checked it out, my store only had one and it was the display sg. Now they went in the back room to find the box with the chokes and extra barrel.
The box was tore up, the chokes were missing and we couldn't get the long barrel off the action to fit the short second barrel. The manager told me he was going to send it back, but I said how much for the way it is now? He said a hundred bucks, I bought it.
Long story short both barrels when blued or coated were coated even on the part that fits into the action. It was to thick and made putting the barrels on really hard. I sanded that off and they fit perfect. 4 or 5 cases of shells later not one hang up.
The seller ADA I think, with one phone call sent me 4 chokes, a manual and a nice choke pouch, all free. Did I misuse, or abuse any of my TS's? No but I shot thousands of rounds through them, Not one semi ever jammed or hung up.
Is there Turkish crap SG's, yep I have seen them, but the semi's I bought most from Tristar were excellent, just as well made as my Beretta 390, in fact they look like copies of the 390. I wonder why? The O/U's are all great quality all with great wood. Even the 16 gauge I bought comes with removable chokes.
Remember what people said about Japan's cars when they first came here. Junk, When those cars were made better than our American cars, people were still calling those cars junk.
@@barelytactical900 YEEEEHAAAA! Excellent reply to a heckler. Heckler, the shell is in your court.
I've heard really good things about the panzer arms m4. A lot of trusted guntubers including Hickock 45 recommended it. They seem have a higher quality control than many of the Turkish brands.
Haven't seen them at the local shops - we will inquire
Panzer aggressively controls metals and parts sourcing to ensure longevity. Panzer is actually involved with assembly as well. USA company teaming with quality turkish companies. It's beginning to become clear that Panzer wants quality. Decent CS within reason. But I'd probably tinker the repairs myself if needed. The CZ712 clone by Panzer EG200 is a lot of value. Like the AR of the SA SG world. And becoming more standardized every day. CZ has put in the RD to improve on Binelli design.
#1. Until you have a couple hundred rounds, I don't consider a gun broken in.
#2. I think the r4 needs a new extractor or extractor spring. The Tac12, I am thinking break in isn't done.
I would suggest running them hard and then come back with a new review.
And yes, my Veper was suppose to need a break in and ran like a champ, but.... I screwed around with it a lot before I got to the range (lots of dry firing). And Benelli generally doesn't need a break in, but....
The Tac 12 has seen close to a thousand rounds. The R4 is a mystery, the shop that sold it to us actually exchanged it after they took it in the back and inspected it.
We are going to revisit this topic, don't worry ;-)
Agreed. Standard industry practice.
Lol.....Binelli.
If you shoot a couple hundred rounds out of a turkish shotgun then you wont break it in; you will just break it. They're made like garbage.
Honestly I think the issue is the brands your buying. How many different Turkish brands make the clone… lots. Perhaps source a more reputable brand (like hunt group for example) and get that much needed second opinion.
There are lots of reliable Turkish brands out there, but it’s going to cost a few more dollars.
The Impact R4 costs the same as the Canuck Operator and many of the counterparts.
We've owned a combined 7 Turkish firearms and only one has worked well. Albeit after it had warranty work. All varied brands/manufacturers.
@@barelytactical900 if you wanna good Turkish shotgun here is the brands that i can suggest to you as a Turkish who has many many years of hunting experience DERYA-ATA-AKSA-HUĞLU-ERMOX-ARMSAn These are the best turkish shotguns and i dunno if they imported to your country
@@barelytactical900 Which is better, the canuck or the R4?
@@avigaresi have a derya and the extractor claw was worn out to a point it doesnt do any extracting after about 120 rounds
The Stoeger m3000 has yet to let me down. No jams, misfires, failed ejection etc
The m3000 is in a league of its own and Stoeger is part of the Berreta/Benelli family. They are solid.
IMO Mossberg needs to get a $380 SA SG on their rack. Ameicans want a budget SASG in their hands. It's ridiculous that our country doesn't have a wallmart level security SASG.
mossberg sa-20
Try polishing the chamber on the R4 see if that helps the extraction issues. 0000 steel wool method might help. I'm having piston issues on my sds art02.
There are a few gem tk sgs models that run most things. Panzer, Stoeger, CZ. Arguably, these three companies have direct control of materials and parts sourcing. Even these can have problems. I have seen plenty examples run very well. These guys are great example because they are looking for the shells that work. Even expensive shotguns have "personality". Cheers dudes. Love ur efforts. 🦅🦅🦅
Not all of them!Try the typhoon products especialy the F12 and another good one is the ers2017!also the typhoon quake is a good one!
Lend us one and we can test it!
@@barelytactical900 You are welcome anytime to come in Greece and it will be my pleasure to take you to our shooting range and let you try them
Escort bts 12 bullpup hates low brass ammo, loves 3" mags and runs them flawless. 100 round break in suggested.
I got the boss hog love it preforms great feeds the rounds good 1500 fps rounds high power
Those clones are definitely hit or miss. I had a Sulun Arms Tac 12. It ate everything I tried including light sheet loads, buckshot (including handloads), and slugs. I put several hundred rounds through it in IDPA competitions. With a full choke it will knock down steel plate like crazy. I should have kept it. Never noticed an issue with light primer strikes. Did you take apart the bolt and clean all grease from the firing pin channel?
Funny story; the firing pin hole in the bolt face was slightly undersized. Caused some drag on thr firing. Got a replacement to test out shortly
@@barelytactical900 Can you lightly sand/polish the opening on the old one?
My first thought when I saw the title was "cool, I've been looking at a Turkish shotgun." When I saw that you both had Turkish copies of the same gun, made by different manufacturers, I thought to myself "hmm, I wonder how many firearm manufacturers there are in Turkey." A quick Google search revealed that there are "over 260" and that "85 of those companies list shotguns as the major product." Furthermore, there are Turkish brands, Canik for example, which have a good reputation and a loyal fan base. From that, I think it's safe to say that no, Turkish shotguns do not suck, and also yes, Turkish shotguns do suck. Sorry you wound up with lemons.
The issue is not one of those manufacturers makes the entire shotgun. One makes bolts, one makes barrels and they take turns assembling them for various brands
This is all well and fine, but it would be logical to test a Benelli M4 alongside these clones to determine whether the real deal performed any better or worse.
Additionally, and maybe I missed it, did you strip, clean, and lube both of these clones before testing?
We did indeed. Detail stripped and used Ballistol
I suspect the inconsistency is simply due to a small sample size. Shooting a few boxes of the exact same shells you could still end up with 1 box that cycled flawlessly and another having a few malfunctions, given the reliability(or the lack of) of the shotguns.
We are going to give it a other go - don't you worry!
Funny and informative and fricken Canadian. Keep it up guys.
You know what you are getting with these guns after a few years of reviews. I bought an SDS bp12 bullpup a few years back. It works with high velocity, heavy loads. Buckshot, 3 inch magnums, etc. so that’s all I buy for it. It’s kind of a corny gun to load with birdshot and go quail hunting with anyway.
True enough! I think the novelty of the Turkish shotguns has worn off for most people
Remember, since the patent expiration many of the Turkenelli shotguns are manufactured by Aksa Arms and imported by different “makers”. It appears the Aksa-made guns are generally better performers - based strictly on anecdotal evidence, of course.
It's not impossible. I'd be curious to try one out
Excellent Vid Guys.........95% of Turk guns imported to the US are a POS , and 5% have Quality Control & function well. Stoger, Panzer and CZ have good reviews. An important issue that gets discounted is that { in general } all these guns need shells rated at over 1250 fps, which discounts the use of cheap shells for plinking, vs being able to shoot anything out of a pump.
We tried to use a pretty wide spread of ammo with multiple options above 1250. Still had issues unfortunately...
Would you recommend a different budget semi auto shotgun?
Mossberg 930
That or save up a bit more and get the mossberg 940
I've only been buying turkish ammo because its the cheapest for me atm and all of it has worked flawlessly in my various turkish shotguns. Maybe I'm lucky or the turkish specifications for 12g are different from western 12g manufacturers. (don't buy the bullpup or 3 pin takedown shotguns btw, I had one of those blow up. Only one I've had that didn't work and it seems like all those 3 pin takedowns dont work)
I'm glad you didn't get hurt from the blow up - sounds like a pretty catastrophic malfunction. What ammo have you been shooting? We'd be interested in getting some and re-running the test
@@barelytactical900 Sterling 00 buck 1 & 3/16 oz 2&3/4 inch and Nobel Sport 7 1/2 shot 1 & 1/8 oz 2&3/4 inch. After googling nobel sport is itallian not turkish so oopsi on my part.
And the gun blowing up wasn't too bad actually. The barrel ruptured at the end and gas block, and the "quick change" gas block index pin thing just pooped itself into my hand. So the gun was busted and my choke was yeeted into the afterlife down range, but it blew up in a relatively very uneventful way.
Always test ur shotgun across many shell types. The info is invaluable. SA SGs are becoming refined and affordable.
We tried over a dozen different brands...
CZ 712 clones are proving to be decently reliable. Some are crap. But originally, a Binelli design. Very simple gas system and affordable to build. It is easily tunable and a variety of parts compatibility with Binelli Beretta even third party otc. 🎉
Thanks for the info
Who needs a turkish garbage rod. Affordable old American steel pump shotguns from New Haven, Connecticut are relatively equal in price or sometimes less than these new fangled turkish guns. They also feel better and less hollow too since they're made from steel instead of aluminum.
Americana pump guns are the way
i think that one is a lemon, that is why it was at a used store
We have a follow up video inbound
What's your thoughts on Axor fp 04
Do they suck ..yes
Do “some” work on .. yes
Will you spend more money buying the cheap one than just buying the known reliable more expensive model..yes
Agreed! We stick with "reputable" Turknelli brands and have worked with the store for some potential solutions. Stay tuned for part two !
Gotta Love the lab coats ...nice touch guys ...LOL..useful video thanks
Thanks - we try!
Unless it’s a Stoeger m3000/3500, not worth the hassle.
So it seems
Would you consider it breaking in toward the end? My Canuck operator was temperamental initially. A couple hundred rounds, some trigger and feed assembly polishing now eats anything. Not particularly reliable straight out of the box. Google turknelli fix
We worked with a retailer and importer and come to some conclusions. Stay tuned for part two!
Waiting for an update. I understand the Turkish hate. Some are crap. It’s hard to know if some of the brand snobbery is coming through What’s confusing is mine is pretty good. 🤷♂️
No Panzer M4
Cool review. Q: What is considered a great shotgun for duck hunting?
Excellent question, anything with a 24 to 28inch barrel with chokes should do you just fine. Most major brands offer something that would suit your needs. Preferably 12ga or 20.
@@barelytactical900 Thank you!
hello, as far as I know, Turkish hunting rifles shoot bullets at 1350 fps, it is written in the manuals, everyone has such a problem. have you had it too they usually say it works better with high fps bullets
We ran several very high fps payloads through them. See the 3 inch magnum high brass rounds
So here's my experience. Par Silah X5 Arsenal. Bought new. Issues right away. Sent to a gunsmith, can't find anything. Supplier replacement under warranty. Second shotgun, same damn thing. Sent to a different gunsmith. Got it back, ran one box flawlessly... And... Issues again. All 2 3/4 shells. Gonna try 3" and magnums. But as for light primer strike/ hard primers. My girsan mc28 hates Winchester white box. Flawless on anything else.
It seems to be a recurring theme. I've had several mess up - bad.
1) An Akkar Churchill - warranty issues out the gate. Broken shell latch. Worked flawlessly going forward... Action got sloppy around 2000 rounds. Sold for peanuts.
2) Lazer arms 12ga folder - ejector broke after 100 rounds. Sold for peanuts.
3) Fedarm 12ga - wouldn't feed anything. Sold promptly for peanuts.
Shawns had issues with a Canuck defender and we've had these obvious issues with the turknellis. - Nathan
@@barelytactical900 yea, I'm considering just selling if I can't get this sorted. Thinking of going back to a pump. Was looking at a nice Winchester that comes with a 20" and 28" barrel combo. Can't remember the exact model. But I wanted something that would be good for hunting and range use.
They definitely look cool...
My Steven's model 320 is pretty particular when it comes to shell selection, but yhe way I look at it is, you find what it likes and just shoot that..
As always guys, great video.
Wish I had seen this video before buying a Canuck operator elite. Hopefully it doesn't suck, haven't shot it yet.
Have u tried a Derya MK12 or the Dagger Sap6?
Do not buy
@@barelytactical900 already did they both spin like a top hardly any stove pipes 4 MK12 & the SAP6 flawless so far been over 5 yrs
I feel like Shawn was shooting a little limp wristed... I don't think that's helping your case. Stiffen up or have Nathan do the reliability tests.
The shotgun failed just as often for Nathan. We filmed that but didn’t end up showing it
U can tinker these shotguns easy. They are very well-known designs. Great education, too. For the money, a tk shotgun is bomb value. And People know it.
They have value sure. But you shouldn't have to fix something for it to work, when new. Should work out of the box
Some of the best guns made in Turkey....
Some - for sure. But not these M4 clones
Hi. Anyone have experience with the Canuck Operator?
They seems to look nice. However we haven't personally shot one. We have broken one Canuck Defender pump gun in pretty short order. Take that for what you will
Got a aTa cy can't get it to cycle
They aren't so good
The only thing the Turkish make well is taffy.
Don’t forget Turkish delights!
I bought an 870 express, and have no issues at all. Good thing I didn't get any turkish junk.
You did the right thing
Turkish shotguns need to be broken in properly. Running different ammo through the shotgun ruins it if you have not broken it in yet.
How does it ruin it?
I've put 200+ rounds assorted through a canuck operator with no issue, but it seems to be a unicorn. I didn't break it in.
Plan on getting the mossberg 940
Most times they are better than american guns!
Vs mid 2010s Remington, sure!
All Panzers have break in point read manuals
You'd think after a few hundred rounds from us (plus who knows how many before us) they'd be broken in.
I have 2 no issues
Break in with Panzer shotguns has specific requirements. Break in velocity is between 1300 to 1400 fps and 1-1/8 oz to 1-3/8 oz, high brass only. What I did was I just manually chambered 500 times and cleaned the gun before taking it out. So far no jams or ejection problems. This was on a EXG500.
Short answer: Yes. Yes they do.
If you could've ran the shotgun that these copied to see if there was a real difference would've been good to see.
I've watched every episode and you always wear that white shirt or a blue shirt with checkers... Is it a uniform or something?
The green checkered shirt is my “field shirt” because I don’t mind getting it dirty. Aside from that I’ve worn 5-6 different shirts over 13 videos 🤷🏻♂️
Yes he wears the same clothes every video
❤❤❤
Lmao again 🙄🤣
We never learn
very bias very one sided very unprofessional. use the right ammo and get the guns tuned & serviced before you rate. We use with many different ammos back in Turkiye and they all perform excellent. Do use right cartridges which is the basic issue I think. For the rest of the shooters pls do your research first before listening to others no matter who they are including positive commentators like us.
We tried multiple brands of ammo from reputable manufacturers - all of which were rated to run a semi automatic shotgun. We also cleaned them at the instruction of the retailer - a major distributor for Turkish shotguns. These guns were simply not up to par
My mindset before watching the video: 90% of Turkish shotguns are pure cancer lol
It's not an incorrect stance
You know the impact r4 is Canada made, not Turkish brand better
My fucking oath they are shot. Save ur money and buy a M4
Literally. Just get the real deal
Any mag fed shotguns worth getting in Canada?
Not with the bans rolling in