I hated the Penelope plot twist. I thought it was completely out of character, her motivation is stupid, and it felt like an extremely forced move that ruined a character that I liked in Sly 3. Penelope as a villain was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now. Clockwerk should have occupied the spot she took in Thieves In Time.
While I'm at it, am I the only one that thinks that Bob Cooper was dumb? They had an entire history of Cooper ancestors to create worlds around, each a detailed character with rich, untapped history just waiting to be explored. But nope. Instead we have Bob Cooper for the kiddies. It's a fucking joke. And that pissed me off as well. I see him the way many Star Wars fans see Jar Jar.
It was too quick and too unexpected, but I don't completely hate the idea. If there was more explanation as to why she really did what she did, then it would've made a bit more sense. This is something they need to expand on in Sly 5. I want Clockwerk to return in Sly 5 and deal with him once and for all.
Bob Cooper is from 10 000 BC, the brain was yet to be evolved. It makes sense why he was acting that way. Bob is the one who came up the cane. As time went by, it evolved.
I just think it takes away from the grandness of the cooper line knowing that the first one reduced to a comic relief character. They should have kept it at Slytunkhamen I.
Nicholas Kreutzer you hit the nail right on the head with that, I just finished ep 4 of thieves in time and I must say right now I'm thinking this game became a disappointment (for the most part).
In a way she turned out very similar to Dr M. When he worked with Sly's father, he felt dissatisfied. History has repeated itself with Penelope betraying Sly's gang. She felt Bentley's talents were being wasted. If another sequel is made, It'll be interesting to see where things lead. She'll possibly be the main villain.
Slight issue about Clockwerk not knowing about Sly with that first theory: it's said that Clockwerk knows the Coopers had a son, and that he wanted to show the world how little they are without the Thievius Raccoonus
Here is one theory: someone wrote a sly cooper fanfiction that told that the cooper gang kept the only surviving part of Clockwork, his eye (which is a treasure in Sly 4), with them to keep it out of the wrong hands. Penelope found the eye, and was slowly hypnotized by it, resulting in her fall from grace. Penelope could be under the subtle control of Clockwork and may end up going back in time and turning Clockwork into a machine. The logos she's leaving behind could be her way of fighting Clockwork's influence and signaling the gang that something is gonna happen and to come stop her.
Hmm...Clockwerk hypnotising Penelope into making her turn Clockwerk robotic....It sounds like Clockwerk knew Penelope was originally the one who turned him, basically a time loop exists.
Terra’s betrayal was well thought out even in the comic it’s based on. Her being a loner who couldn’t relate to people because of her lack of control of her powers made sense. Penelope’s plot twist isn’t well thought out at all because it’s never established that she was in it for the money (even her time as the Black Baron was just to prove her worth as an RC specialist) it’s also clear in the cutscene that she was perfectly content with Bentley. Then all of a sudden over the years she left and got upset that Bentley held on to the Cooper Gangs code of never thieving solely to become rich .It’s never established that she knows Sly was faking amnesia. (or that Bentley was trying to look for him) Bentley only got involved once the Thievius Raccoonus started disappearing and it’s established she left before then. So why go through the trouble of joining a villain’s plot to take down the family legacy of your boyfriend’s closest friend if that friend is for all intense and purposes retired and only started thieving again to prevent the guy you willingly agreed to work for from erasing his family legacy? There’s also the fact that Sly saved her from an arranged marriage to a chauvinist pirate and idk left her a portion of his family fortune.
I feel like if Sucker Punch made Sly 4 we would find out exactly how Clockwork got his armor and Hate Chip. I always thought that he would practice ancient techniques to keep himself healthy until he found a way to gain immortality.
+tang484 Since Sly 4 was left with a cliffhanger, where Sly suddenly time travelled, finding out how Clockwerk got his armor and hate chip would be most probable. We don't know in which time period Clockwerk was actually born nor do we know who made him start this rivalry. Maybe all of this could've started in Ancient Egypt, where Sly wound up! Maybe clockwork could've learned these ancient techniques in Ancient Egypt!
I like to think Penelope made Clockwerks armour, I mean, Sly mentioned Clockwerk replacing parts of himself with machineary, but were are never told WHO built them. People just assume Clockwerk built them himself, but how can he? Look at his anatomy, no way he could grasp heavy machineary with them wings (That at the time that were skin and feathers) About her logo. it's no gas mask, it's just a simplified mouse head ^_^ Her postcards, well one is in Paris, what if, she time traveled to where Sly was on the first level in Sly 2 with Dimitri. And Arpeggio has a blimp in paris, You know who has a blimp but could time travel? Le Paradox. These two blimps could have been connected to make the giant blimp of the last episode of Sly 2 I also have a theory of how Penelope influenced Sly 2 and the Clockwerk parts. She knew already Sly would find the parts, But she also wanted to make some money ("We could have made millions" sggests sheloves money), knowing full well Sly would retrieve the parts, she stole the parts and sold them the the Klaww Gang to be found by Sly later.
Penelope turning Clockwerk into what he was is very possible! Future tech in Ancient Egypt nah, something's up... unless Clockwerk met this sorcerer who had powers who knows (dark magic is a thing in the series). About the stolen parts, Neyla said it was a Klaww Gang job, but that's according to Neyla right? What if someone else was involved, perhaps Penelope like you mentioned. If it were Penelope, I think someone from the Klaww gang would've had revealed it already.
Exactly, Nobody in sly 2 mentioned who let it on that the Clockwerk parts were stealable to the Klaww Gang. Neyla is a likely source but I doubt she wanted money, She wanted to become Clock-la so she must have wanted the parts for herself. Also what if, Penelope at one point, time traveled back to where she orignally met the gang in Holland, and set booby traps up, Letting Mugshot know when the cooper Hangar is most vunerable. And what if, she did this more than once, there are 4 blimps around Holland what if, they're all Penelopes tiem traveling blimps at different points in histroy. Cheking up on her past self, giving her past self advice. "I guess I'm kinda relieved" When penelope said that to Sly, it really didn't sound sincere.
** LEGALIZE AWOO ** If Penelope from the future tried giving advice to her past self either bad or good, it doesn't seem to have worked out right? Her plan to win over Bentley in Sly 4 backfired. I feel like Penelope is planning something big and we'll get to see that in Sly 5.
Here's another theory: Penelope may have traveled back in time to find Dr. M after the original Cooper Gang disbanded. She may have told him that she agrees with his theory of using their intellect to reshape the world, instead of using it for thievery. They would than work together to turn Clockwerk into a robot. Dr. M would than gather the other four members of the Fiendish Five, and then lead them to Sly's parents' house, where they would kill his parents and steal journal's pages. In return for showing him where the current generation of Coopers lived, Clockwerk might have given Dr. M a ride on his back to the island where the Cooper vault was, hence the reason as to how Dr. M got there in the first place in "Honor Among Thieves". But what do you think? Is this theory worthy of a theory video centered around Dr. M? If so/not, why/why not?
+Carl Johnston A theory regarding Dr. M should be up this week :P. If Penelope did work with Dr. M, then that means she was tricking the whole gang into believing she was good in Sly 3. About the cooper vault, Dr. M probably already knew about it when he used to work with the Coopers. Eventually, his hate lead him towards wanting to steal all the fortune in the vault; who knows, all that fortune was probably because of him and just for pay back ,he decided to retake everything. He felt used, he felt like he needed some of that fortune after all the help he gave to the Coopers back then. Out of all this Dr. M being involved with Clockwerk is very possible. Penelope and Dr. M, on the other hand, it's harder to imagine, simply due to the fact that she was helping the gang in Sly 3. Unless...Penelope planned all this, Clockwerk noticed that Penelope is far more valuable than Dr. M (she built a time machine for the Le Paradox after all). Clockwerk eventually just used Sly and the gang to get rid of Dr. M (who knows, Clockwerk was perhaps afraid that Dr. M would reveal his secret, the secret could be that clockwerk will return) So as a result, Penelope helped the gang on Kaine Island just to hide any suspicious evidence. Clockwerk is one very mysterious character, one can come up with a lot of theories. This is getting very confusing, hopefully I can explain all this in a video XD.
I can actually see Penolope making clockwerk like holy shit that would be an awesome plot twist to be honest! Then she's the one who cause the events of Sly 1
Then it would be another self containing paradox, without Sly she would have never met Bentley. Though it is plausible for her to be involved rather than being the fiend herself since Clockwreck DID NOT WANT TO OUTRIGHT KILL SLY, he wanted to make him suffer and then end him. He said so himself in the first game!
@@rockin_fuzzy1236 Well, they already have something in common: they were both revealed to be traitors. But their personalities are different. I don't think they can be one and the same. Neyla was darker than Penelope.
Penelope going bad out of ambition when realizing how far her and Bentley's inventions could take them, I am a bit okay with that as her reason for her betrayal. But with her fate remaining a mystery though I makes me demand a Sly Cooper 5 or at least an explanation of what she is doing. Does she regret her actions, does she want to at least make thing right with Bentley? It's irritating when a likable character goes bad then fads into obscurity when they lose.
I never liked Penelope as a villain back in 2013 it's 2015 and I still hate the idea when their will bring Sly 5 to life I don't want her to be the main villain I want her to redeem herself her say sorry to the gang if not well I don't want that to happen.
+optimusN64 Actually, Sly 3 proves that Penelope's character in Thieves in Time is a character for her. Why and how. Well, listen to what she said in Sly 4. she said that Sly was taking advantage of Bentley and keeping him from his full potential. Sound familiar? Because it's the same thing that happened to Dr.M, who as you know was the brains of sly's fathers gang, who he felt like was being taken advantage of. And because Penelope and Bentley are the brains of the gang, it would make sense for her to get this idea.
creeper 321448 So Penelope thought that Sly and Murray were taking advantage of them? Possible! We never actually knew why Dr. M felt like he was being used, what if he met someone who despised the Coopers? That someone maybe kinda brainwashed him into thinking he's just a tool.
8 років тому
VtnVivi That's true maybe he somehow met Clockwerk and the evil owl brainwashed Dr.M into believing that he was being used. This could be made into a video you know? I'd like to hear what you think about this subject.
That gas mask shit is all wrong just because of your point of view. Penelope doesnt have a gas mask in thise spray paints, its just her nose and glasses that make it look like that.
I think everything in that first part of that one comment makes so much sense now that I think about it! We just need Sly 5 even more now so that we can see Penelope in that role! 0.0
If Penelope made clockwerk than she's the reason they even met her, because the reason they found the vault in 3 was because the gang broke up in 2 cause of clockwerk breaking bentleys legs
Clockwerk eyes changed Between red and Yellow in the first game Also Murray is Pink in animated Cutscenes in Sly 2 and 3 but is purple in game meanwhile in Sly 4 he is purple in Animated Cutscenes and Pink in game so developers do that on purpose I guess
+MP2066 In the ending of Sly 1, Clockwerk's eyes were shown red yeah! But the same scene was shown shown in Sly 2, with Clockwerk's eyes yellow, maybe the developers are really doing it on purpose.
I'm hoping for some redemption in Penelope. Maybe having her and Sly play a long con to prove her place in the Cooper gang. Because if she help Clockworth become who he is, then it maybe Bentley to fully defeat her.
2:15 But Sly basically retired at that point the team basically disbanded (until the time travel situation), so she and Bentley were together the whole time, so I don't think that it was jealousy. I think it was Le Paradox and Ms. D came in and brainwashed Penelope and erased the first encounter from Bentley's memories and before he could figure out what happened, he notices the pages were vanishing.
+MrXemrox 2:15 is like a summary of what happened in Sly 3, when the Black Baron turned out to be Penelope. After beating Dr. M, that's when the team retired, well technically when Sly pretended of having amnesia. Penelope being brainwashed could be likely, it would explain her sudden disappearance more easily.
Clever theory, for some odd reason when I saw penelopes betrayal, clockwerk randomly popped up. We can't confirm however that the cameos he made in thieves in time were Canon. I believe clockwerk did in fact survive off of hate and at some point with his obsession of trying to outsmart the Cooper's, created the technology to ensure he would continue living and the replace his body with robotics. With this idea of early technological advancement in mind. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think he created a time machine before Bentley and used it to travel back in time to the era's he had already lived through to study the Cooper's to prepare for his encounter with Sly. Clockwerks immortallity can also be brought into question; whether or not he actually lived for thousands of years or just encountered a Cooper, maybe Connor, in the present and time traveled in order to try to get an idea of how to kill him. I have another theory of clockwerks origins that would explain his large size and the fact that he appeared during the time of the Cave Cooper.
If we take that 10 000BC easter egg as canon, then it could be he originated from the future and started from there. Thing is, if he had killed Bob, Coopers would be erased and there wouldn't be hate left to live off on.
@@VtnVivi it was never confirmed that clockwerk did kill any other Coopers besides Sly's parents, he said himself that the Coopers were usually a step ahead of him. In fact probably the only reason he could kill Sky's parents was because he had backup.
It’s a pretty decent theory, my only problem with it is that Penelope is fully aware of how events turned out between Sly and Clockwerk, and if she was to go back in time to suit up Clockwerk against Sly she would’ve done more to be sure Clockwerk would succeed in killing Sly. If there is to be a Sly 5, I can’t imagine Penelope playing any other role than the leader of her own gang with the sole purpose of destroying the Cooper gang. Now that her breakup with Bentley seems quite unlikely to rekindle, I imagine she’ll take on a scorched earth policy and try to destroy the Cooper gang entirely.
omg good job man im so confused what sly 5 is gonna be about if they make it!! :0 XD good job vivi!! love ur videos as usual! i think mabey her going back in time is not that crazy XD its a god theory!
Couldn't sly communicate with Bentley by writing in Slytunkamens the virus Raccoonus in Egypt? If he wrote it wouldn't it appear in front of Bentleys eyes?
+MinecraftdSimmer That could be possible. Since parts of the Thievius Raccoonus vanished when the past was altered, adding stuff from the past could appear in the future.
What I think Clockwerk is doing in the past in the fourth game is that first he is trying to kill the ancestor in that era and second that he is keeping an eye on Penelope or anything to do with her. Maybe Penelope told Clockwerk what her plan was in the past and he is looking at it to see if Sly really is going to be a threat or not. Maybe Penelope asked Clockwerk for help but he didn't because Penelope told him what would happen when Sly grew up, or maybe he just didn't want to help out because he already got his end of the deal, being immortal. This is just something I thought of when he mentioned Penelope meeting Clockwerk as a possibility.
Those easter eggs could represent how Clockwerk was keeping an eye on the Coopers. As for Clockwerk keeping an eye on Penelope hmm... She could have time travelled from the future to warn him that's a possibility. If Penelope had sought help from Clockwerk, maybe he would've killed Sly early and that would've affected Penelope's future with Bentley assuming she has feelings for him still.
Well seeing how a lot of people don't seem to like Penelope's betrayal for particular reasons, I'm honestly somewhere in the middle ground. On one hand, she did join the Cooper gang to help with the vault job after the ACES. However, she did play as the Black Baron and did cheat against the competition. One thing I recall years ago about why Penelope turned against Bentley and the Cooper gang is because she had similar yet different feelings as Dr. M in Sly 3. Sly's father wasn't a good friend to Dr. M, yet Sly was to Penelope. They tried to do something on the family name of Cooper and felt jealous of being held back from reaching their full potential.
This theorizing was amazing!! Seriously, Sadly I've never gotten to play the games myself, as I don't even own a playstation, but I've been in love with this series for a long time, I'd love to find out the story behind some of these untold mysteries.
Don’t know if you’re still reading comments for this, but I’m still super hyped for a potential 5th game. But something I did want to mention was the “hypnotic lightshow of hate” in Sly 2. The master plan was to give Arpeggio, once merged with Clockwerk, an artificial immortality by brainwashing people in Paris to become violent and basically kill and hate each other. If Clockwerk can absorb other’s hate, he may not need Sly eventually to become immortal. Fortunately for us he failed, but I would love to see more about what his motivations are post end of the coopers, supposing he wins.
To me, it makes sense that Penelope has the ability to see to what time periods her machine traveled to. So maybe she's trying to locate Sly, or help Bentley locate him, for whatever reason, but since she only went to Medieval England, she doesn't know where Sly could have been stranded.
Penelope's intentions were "good" but misguided: Penelope didn't hate Sly but perhaps during the time Sly was pretending to have amnesia and have a relationship with Carmelita, Bentley tells her about their adventures together. But begins to feel that Sly treated Bentley like a sidekick, similar to Dr. M, and while they created inventions together that Sly was holding him back. Like she said in Sly 4 " you waste your talents and genius on petty crimes for a thief" which for Penelope, Bentley could do so much more than helping Sly with him doing heists and stealing things. Sly is the thief that steals things that's his thing, though Bentley squandered his talents helping Sly when he could accomplish so much more. Any thoughts on this VTNVIVI?
Someone left a comment in Deviant art , com She is leaving post cards to get close to Bently, but keeping her distance from him because she realizes what she has done and still love Bently. Knowing she can never return to him. Something to that affect.
I am glad I am not the only one who thinks that Penelope and Clockwerk could have a connections because of there similar hatred towards the Cooper Gang, as well as Penelope's time machine.
those post cards mean she escaped out of jail the other one with the lab means she is building another time machine and the last one where sly was means she is looking for him it's in order
Something many bring up all the time, why would she turn into an owl really? Does she despise Sly that much as to go back in time and change everything? Hmm...I can't imagine it. As for her helping Clockwerk via time travel, now that's different :)
I think she went back in time, make Clockwerk, or Clockwork, or however his name is spelled, from scratch, and her hatred for Sly for "changing" Bently, helped her crate the Hate Chip. Because of her engineering mastery, she wasable to create something that will last through all of time, until Sly and the gang defeat him fully at the end of Sly 2, as Clock-la
I just realized the plot shoots itself in the foot if penelope did sell out the time machine and paradox did win she and bently would never had met no book means no clockwerk which means sly never meets bentley and penelope never meets bentley... i cant believe i didnt think of that before
I've been reading the comments and spotted an interesting theory. It's very possible she was responsible for turning Clockwerk robotic. He had cameos throughout each episode in this game and even existed as far back as the ice ages. He had to have help from someone, I doubt he would've been able to modify himself. He couldn't possibly have had the technology to do that to himself in the centuries prior to the series. Very likely she traveled through time.
@@VtnVivi I've been playing the game again lately and spotted something in the opening level in the museum. During Bentley's section when you reach that computer room, there are chalkboards on both sides of the room. I presume they are blueprints for Le Paradox's blimp. If you zoom in on some of the writing, I spotted the word 'Clocwerk' It's very possible Penelope was using that room to design the blimp.
It might be possible that Penelope did in fact go back in time, met (pre-robotic) Clockwerk and helped him become immortal in hopes that he would one day, eventually wiped out the entire Cooper family line and Sly Cooper himself if she really hated Sly so much!
VTNVIVI i was hoping you could maybe answer these 3 questions 1.What motive did Rajan and jean bison have for joining the klaw gang in sly 2? 2.what did clockwerk say to the other four fiendish five members Mugshot,Panda King,Ms.Ruby,Sir Raleigh to make them join him in sly 1. 3.what happens to the panda king and the guru in sly 5 as they are not mentioned?.
1. Money. The Klaww Gang was all that from the very start. Once they got the Clockwerk parts, the process was even simpler, but Arpeggio had his own plans. 2. We have no clue, we can only speculate. Raleigh did aid the gang when it came tech, but that was it. They were on their own. Most likely money by Clockwerk or forced against their will. 3. You mean Sly 4? The guru was last mentioned in Sly 3's credit, in New York. Well tried escaping the attention by fleeing to New York, but people still managed to find him aka more students. Panda King is currently keeping an eye on his daughter's love interest, to see who's suitable, he currently remains in China. As for why they weren't mentioned in Sly 4, well it's Sanzaru.
Also, I wouldn't put anything passed Penelope. She could very well be Clockwerk, but I think if she was, she would have mentioned it when she encountered Sly in Russia (Sly 1) However I would be onboard if it's revealed that Penelope built Clockwerk's armor for him... PLOOOOOT SWIIIIIIIIIST!!!
The whole Penelope creating Clockwerk is pretty cool but Clockwerk didn't kill Sly's partents to stop him from being born. Clockwerk knew Sly existed and left him alive to see how he would fail without the Thevious Racoonis
The comment you cited at 6:29 would be a causal loop. A causal loop is when event B causes event A to happen (and to make event A possible to begin with). Let's say event A is Sly destroying Clockwerk and event B is that Penelope deciding to travel back in time to help Clockwerk convert to a machine. The Cooper gang met Penelope AFTER destroying Clockwerk. Penelope didn't know about the Coopers (let's assume that) before she met the gang. And let's also assume that Sly and Bentley told Penelope about the Cooper family and that they destroyed Clockwerk, BEFORE she decides to leave Bentley and travel back in time. Now, what Bentley and Sly told Penelope, is the result of her decision that haven't been made yet. Since Penelope haven't made the decision to travel back yet, the Cooper gang can't have destroyed Clockwerk. Ergo, (le)paradox. Causal loop. If my assumption that Penelope didn't know about the Coopers is false, and that she somehow already were affiliated with Clockwerk, then it may have been that she used Bentley to create a time machine for her, and that this was all a part of a grand scheme. Then again, how could Penelope be the one responsible for converting Clockwerk into a machine? She must first have been affiliated with Clockwerk somehow (maybe through meeting Clockwerk before he died), and been told to use Bentley to create a time machine. And then travelling back in time to convert Clockwerk. Argh. This would also be a causal loop. Actually, I don't see a way for someone from the future (aka sometime after Clockwerk is converted) to somehow be able to be the one responsible for helping Clockwerk in converting.
Thanks for sharing interesting read! It's time travel in the end, it's just confusing. I do believe Penelope being the cause of all this is possible, have you played Jak & Daxter, the whole idea of future Jak sending young Jak to the past to Sandover village? It's all a loop.
I'm sorry but I have to ask. Bentley said that he's looked in the past history for Sly. But what if he's not there. This theory does make a lot of sense, but it bothers me. If Paradox has a time machine that does not require an artifact from that period, doesn't that mean that that he's in the future? Does that mean that we'll have Sly Cooper Future?
+VtnVivi No. What I mean is that when you beat paradox, the time machine malfunctions. My theory is that the time machine didn't send Sly to the past, but to the future.
So, Penelope was jealous of Bentley and Sly, but Sly was pretending to have amnesia, so if he interacted with Bentley or Murray he would blow his cover. But when Penelope joined Le Paradox she forced Bentley to talk and work with Sly more/ again... so her plan makes no sense!!!!! Why would she make her boyfriend do what she hates?! WHA-?!
Wait wait... Penelope was not jealous of Bentley, she thought Sly was stopping him from reaching his potential. She joined Le Paradox most likely for money. Bentley thought she was being used as a puppet.
vtnvivi how did general taso from sly 3 know about the panda king when he was member of the fiendish five as he told sly in their second fight "the panda king in his day was magnificent"?.Also how was the mask of dark earth created/formed?.
I really hated what they did to Penelope. Sanzaru completely changed who she was as a character, making her want Power and Authority. She was the Black Baron because she simply wanted to Fly and the Persona got to her. But she left that all behind to join Sly and the Gang and even fell in love with Bentley. She never showed interest in making super weapons and selling them to the highest bidder. Why have her become a Twist Villain? Because they couldn't't come up with a new villain that could work on their own. Sanzaru is NOT Sucker Punch. This was like J&D Lost Frontier Levels of Poor writing. My Sister was a DIE-HARD Sly fan and she was pretty heartbroken with Thieves in Time.
I don't hate the idea of Penelope being bad, heck her persona as the Black Baron surely hinted at her being ruthless towards her guards and contestants. Remember, we don't know the exact time gap between Sly 3's ending and Sly 4, Sanzaru could've used that as an opportunity to further expand on Penelope's way of thinking. I don't hate it, it just needed more.
@@VtnVivi I feel like to broke her character and lacked consistency. My Sister, a Die Hard Sly fan immediately quit playing Thieves in Time when she saw that part and refused to finish it. Having a Villain twist isn't a bad thing, Neyla was handled well, but Penelope didn't;t line up with who she was in the previous game and that took me out of the experience. To me not only did I not care for Thieves in Time's story but it literally hurt my eyes, it cause eye strain and I needed to wear sunglasses in certain parts of the game. This game was so bad it literally Hurt Me.
if she is involved with clockwork then safe to say that maybe both clockwork and her were made into immortal bodies but she used the time travel blue prints to add on to herself that would mean the eye you get as a treasure is her's. and if anyone is asking why she would make herself look like clockwork there would be two reasons 1. because she might want to get close to clockwork as we don't even know why he forms the claw gang anyways nor why he targets only coopers, or 2. it could just be her way in saying that she was what brought them together in the first place to spite bently.
Vtnvivi I hope do have they excuse because remember broke out prison so may they she playing cat and mouse With Bentley remember she it a mean to a end so guessing she going to bad agian
Also there will not be a sly5, sony didnt advertise the game at all so it didnt do well. Sanzaru said in an interview they have no plans to make another sly game ever.
+Nanokoex Hmm.. well technically, at e3 2015, Sanzaru was interviewed and they mentioned that they're up for it if Sony allows them. Sanzaru mentioned that people should just contact Sony; however, I don't think Sony will even respond at all. If the movie does well, whenever it gets released, maybe that will push Sony.
Clockwork was aware of Sly being born and left him alive on purpose, stating that it was the thievius raccoonus that made the Cooper legacy what it was. If Clockwork would have met Penelope he would have known this was wrong and probably just killed him too.
+Quantum Night Nice thought! What could also happen is that when Penelope meets Clockwerk, she mentions to him about the thievius Raccoonus, maybe he didn't know about it back then. A deal could have been made such as follows: I'll make you immortal as long as you take away the things that matter to Sly (his parents). She mentions that the thievius raccoonus is what kept Sly going, therefore she asks him to destroy it in Sly's timeline, whenever he has the chance. Penelope would think that without the book, Sly would be nothing (that's why Clockwerk spared him, he wanted him to feel worthless aka Penelope's order). Who knows, Penelope could've been time travelling this whole time and keeping an eye on Clockwerk's mission.
my personal headcannon/theory about penelope's betrayal is, admittedly, fairly "cheap", but in both sly 2, and sly 4, we have alot of elements of Mind Control, its even mentioned in Sly 4 that the mind control used there is similar what they encountered in "Prague", aka, the hypnotism of the Contessa, as that all happened in Prague, and was all about how she hypnotized criminals to make them reveal their loot, and also hypnotizing carmelita to take the fall and be her "new best friend", etc. Well, what if Paradox used Miss Decibel's mind control to "convince" penelope of stealing bently's plans and all that. Miss Decibel sure seemed to be the one "closest" to Paradox, at least as a means to an end, he may have seduced her and then convinced her to hypnotize penelope to obtain her services. Main Reason i believe mind control to be more plausible for penelopes betrayal, is frankly because penelopes personality in sly 4 feels absolutely nothing like sly 3's depiction of her. Penelope were frequently shown to be very excited about the cooper gang, and even showed great concern for them on numerous occasions, and she even blamed herself for some failures,. SHe was shy and timid and rather nervous, and her attraction and hookup with bently was a result of awesome character growth for both her and bently, as she mounted up the courage to stand for herself and protect someone she loved. Penelope in Sly 4 by contrast is extremely selfish and contradict herself, going from saying she did it for bently to then trying to kill him, and then also mentioning they could have made millions when they, inherited the cooper vault fortunes from sly, which probably has more money than they would ever need in their lifetime. There is also nothing that suggests that she ever tried to talk to bently about any of this, since bently seems utterly confused and surprised, as tho he never saw any of it coming, i mean, he was worried sick about her because one day she just up and left without a word, you'd think that if she "did it for bently", that she wouldve made a scene befopre she left, but no, she "disappeared". As such, because of her sudden unexplained personality shift, combined with the re-use of mind control in the penultimate episode of sly 4 and the gangs history with it, i believe its possible that penelope could have been simply mind controlled so that paradox could get his hands on bentlys time machine. Ofc, it is probably more likely the writers had their own personal interpretation of penelope in sly 3 and thought she would genuinely be like that, and i have probably just thought this personal theory up as a way to tell myself "she could still be the penelope i know and love from sly 3 deep inside". either way, nice video
Thanks for your take on this! I personally am not a fan of the whole brainwashing idea....it sounds like a ''cheap'' way of undoing what they did in Sly 4 just as you said. Am I saying this theory is impossible? Not at all. It all comes down to how long Decibel's mind control works for....Sly 4 showed no signs of lengthy brainwashing WITHOUT a machine. PLUS, if Penelope were truly brainwashed, she wouldn't have said those negative things about Le Paradox after facing her. The way I see it, we have no clue how much time has passed between the end of Sly 3 and start of Sly 4, enough time has passed for Penelope to get a new or rather should I say a bad perspective on things.
@@VtnVivi a very fair and reasonable point of view. And yeah, decibell's brainwashin def doesnt seem to be quite as effective as the contessa, whom i believe implied that she could hypnotize people without constantly bombard them with hypno waves. But it could also, ironicly perhaps, be a time thing. if she had sufficent time perhaps she no longer would need the machines, but thats pure speculation and there is no way to know for sure since we have no clue for how long penelope was gone before the gang got back together and made their move against paradox. One of the main reasons i do sort of like the mind control theory tho is mainly because it does offer a, admitedly as ive said, cheap, but at least functional, explanation for possible future games (if we ever get any) to potentially redeem penelope if they so want to, and since mind control has been used in more than one game by now, it would not be something pulled out of the blue. Heck, if the Contessa experimented with mind control it is not unreasonable to think that someone picked up her researched and advanced it further. Precicely because it isnt out of place within the universe it can be "safely" used i think, maybe not the most interesting option, but definitely a safe option. Ofc, the darker theories about penelope legit doing it of her own free will are also rather interesting, and its just enjoyable seeing every fans own personal take on it. : ) Edit: i also just now came to think of one, admitedly more crazy, thought about the whole decibell mind control/hypnotic suggestion shenanigans and that would be if they secretly placed a hypnotizer inside penelopes black knight suit. Small enough to be hidden, not powerfull enough to perform full mind control, but just enough to influence her opinions and thoughts perhaps. Asmitedly, thats a veeeery crazy idea, pretty farfetched, but it could be a crazy possibility perhaps.
Clockwerk probably has smaller minions as scouters when the small machine owls can be seen like flying cameras. Remember Clockwerk is a giant owl he wouldn’t just be that small owl that wouldn’t be capable of killing the coopers. Clockwerk could also be the result of maybe him being a pharaoh and maybe in sly 5 sly is the one who sets him off hating the Cooper legacy.
What I always wondered: how is it possible for Clockwerk to already be a cyborg/robot HUNDREDS of years ago? (I at one point Sly or Bentley said that the technology of Clockwerk was WAY ahead of time, even in Sly 2 his parts were more advanced than anything else) A time machine would be the only explanation here,
VTNVivi i know it's not sly 4 related but how do you suppose Jean Bison from sly 2 episodes 6 and 7,and General Taso from sly 3 episode 4.Found the cooper gang's hideout
Good theory but i do not believe Penelope is Clockwerk because it was said before in Sly 2 at the start when Sly first mentions Clockwerk that Clockwerk was a normal owl as shown in the photos anyway but because he had so much hatred towards Sly Coopers Family line he covered himself in metal armour in order to be eternal/live forever his hatred basically keeping him alive all those years even Sly questions it in Sly 1 final battle saying 'What so your immortal' to which he replies that hatred kept him alive the real Clockwerk though died in Sly 1 when Sly beat him Neyla in Sly 2 is just her using Clockwerks power for herself.
+TheInfamousify Penelope being Clockwerk would be crazy haha! Since technology was not advanced back then, what if Penelope time travelled and was the one who built his armor? How was Clockwerk capable of putting himself inside a technological armor? Overall, Penelope time travelling could be a cool addition to the story.
Clockwerk explained that in the end yes. Logically, Clockwerk needs hate to survive, he used Sly as his source of hatred. Think about this, how did Clockwerk survive all these years? The hate chip. He made sure the children were born and then got rid of their parents. Of course, Clockwerk mentioned that Coopers always found a way to beat him, we assume he was able to get rid of them at one point.
VTNVIVI yeah but you don't need them to be alive to hate them besides that it seems his sole purpose revolves around the Cooper clan once he's destroyed them what's the point of being alive IF it did kill him it's doubtful since like I said he doesn't need them alive to hate
Mauro Garcia I always believed Clockwerk wanted to live knowing he was the one who got rid of them. We don't know much of his past, perhaps this whole maniacal plan of his was simply to avenge his parents. He did say he wanted to be known as the best thief alive, but I believe there's more to it.
Okay, another way to approach this: Maybe don't see Penelope as a villain in Sly 5 (if that's ever to come), but as the way to get Sly out of ancient egypt? Penelope helped developing the time machine, right? She must have some sort of plans or even her own little time machine in that lab shown on the 3 marked pictures (or something like that). Then, maybe as a payback-gift to show Bentley, she's not (entirely) evil, she travels to ancient egypt, helping Sly get out of it and thus meaning, she'll save him. No clue on how she would find out, that Sly is stuck in that specific time, but it's only a mere guess. btw, don't judge me for inconsistency or faulty thinking, I'm not the best theory-developer xD
The only way Penelope would find out about Sly's whereabouts is IF she had some sort of communication device with Paradox's time machine. She would find out the the digits (year of destination)...however, Paradox's plan was to send Carmelita and Sly in an endless loop, who knows if the time machine got stuck on specific time period on accident.
Technically, there could be another way for Penelope to find out, where Sly could have landed. Paradox probably had some sort of list of destinations (while they were working on the time machine) and (maybe) added ancient egypt as such a destination. If Penelope got to read that list, at one point, she had to, since she went to Sir Galleths Time, she could at least try ancient egypt, travel there, search for Sly and bring him back (considering, Sly trusts her)
I think it's possible Penelope could do all that. She does have the brains for it. It is impossible for Penelope to be Clockwork because in Sly Cooper 1 Clockwork fell into lava and was almost destroyed. Penelope would've been killed! She would've had no escape.
Now Clockwerk was all computer and perhaps magic, he could have backed up his brain somewhere. If Penelope were Clockwerk which really doesn't make sense to me, she'd have a backup plan.
I think you're on to something, VTNVIVI! We all know Clockwerk became immortal after replacing his old body with his robotic one, but we never really thought about how he did this or if anyone helped him become immortal either!
But unless we see a new Sly game along with the return of Penelope, we'll probably never know this for sure or where's she at now or what she's planning to do next after having escaped from prison!
I don’t think Penelope would be clockwerk because I notice that when Neyla wanted to take the body of clockwerk she should have seen Penelope when she was boarding the clockwerk
Honestly, Thieves in Time's story felt like an ass pull with Penelope suddenly getting jealous, despite all the bonding that came from Dead Man Tell No Tales. Heck, she even had a crush on Sly. With her turning evil, it feels more like that Sanzaru never liked Penelope. We didn't learn to much about her in Honor Among Thieves, but it sure didn't look like Sucker Punch would have done this. Given that many people have had quite the negative outlook on the game (myself included), I'm doubtful that Sucker Punch could rectify Sanzaru's blunders.
+Neko9000 This is how I see it. Sanzaru decided to add a plotwist in order to expand the series. How did Clockwerk turn into a robot? Could Penelope have time travelled to Ancient Egypt? Since Penelope betrayed the gang, I could see her being the cause of the whole Clockwerk mess. But we also have Dr. M for that right? They probably chose Penelope just to make the whole situation unexpected.
Penelope would never kill Slys parents. See, because Slys parents got killed, he got in the orphans house and then met Bentley. So if Slys parents wouldn't have been killed, Sly and Bentley would have never met and Penelope could have had Bentley all for her own.
+JAC 073 You're right, they were shown red in the end. Maybe the glass was showing them yellow for some reason. If not, then I find it very interesting! That red glow just screams out This isn't over! Hmm...
The "Penelope helped Clockwerk become immortal" bit has merit, she is a tech genius and, given the other inventions/technology that exists through out the series, a hate chip to keep him going doesn't seem to far fetched. It would also explain how Clockwerk seemed to be fully mechanical in the various eras in Sly 4 when that was not possible given the limited advancements of each time period. To add to the theory, I'm going to suggest that she likely peeked at the Thievius Raccoonus while it was in Bentley's care, thus knowing what ancestors to target later. After her defeat in England she escaped prison and gathered the necessary things while dropping a few hints to Bentley. For example, the Paris shot is not only from the trailer but Paris was the stage for final battle with Clock-la/Clockwerk hinting at her possible partnership, and the lab may be a hint towards the time machine or her possible secret reading of the Thievius Raccoonus since that was also kept at their lab. Then she partnered with the then organic Clockwerk, who shared a hatred for the Coopers, made him immortal and told him the names and locations of the key ancestors from the book. Clockwerk would likely betray her after she "out lived her usefulness" and so he could be the worlds best and only true thief after killing Sly himself only to fail in the fashion we all know now. Also Penelope's inventions tended to have minor issues or obvious flaws, hence Clockwerk's usually invincible body being made vulnerable by Carmalita's shock pistol (heavy doses of electricity). Thats my two cents, feel free to poke holes, its just a theory.
Thank you for sharing your own point of vue! So way before Sly 4, perhaps during Sly's fake amnesia, Penelope was already having doubts, she started peeking into the book just out of curiosity, to understannd why Bentley is always helping a ''thief''. But, did she have THAT much hatred to go to the past and aid Clockwerk? Perhaps Bentley told her about him or she discovered it on her own via news or the book itself. My 2nd theory, if you just found this channel, is Penelope finds the brain which was never inside Clock-La, the essence/life of Clockwerk. She transfers it to a new Clockwerk body 3.0.
Ya, I didn't pay attention to the publish date on this video so I guess there would be more evolved theories by now. I suppose that one of Clockwerk's eyes survived the hate chip's destruction so its possible the brain could have as well. It would also lend to Clockwerk's final claims that the Cooper gang would never be rid of him, since it seems the crippling of Bentley was more Neyla's doing. I like to think it was less hate for Penelope at first as much as it was her own twisted version of love towards Bentley, trying to "save" him from future Cooper Gang exploits. Then after her defeat in England, Penelope's feelings of true hate for Sly came forward thus leading her down her current path. Anyhow I'll spare you anymore of my theories, heres hoping that Sly 5 happens and/or the TV show does well!
if penlope acutely did make clockwork immortal then that acutely clears up a huge story hole. while we now that clockwer was once just a bird it was never explained how he gained his metal body. if Penelope made it for him then that clears up the issue. however i believe that penolpe's mark on the post cards is a refrence to her loyalty to le paradox and has already broken himm out and is on the run. also i would like to point out that the color of clockwerks eye can change at will so it dosen't matter if their red or yellow.
It is unlikely. We have seen Clockwerk in some cutscenes before the time he became a robot. Additionally, Clockwerk in Sly 1 has a lot deeper voice than Penelope. We did see in Sly 2 that whoever controls Clockwerk has mostly the same voice to what they had as a living begin, although a bit more robotic sounding. The theory of Penelope helping Clockwerk is not impossible as long as she was indeed able to travel back in time after the events of Sly 4
In sly 2, if you enter the blimp you have to make a foto from some eggs. What it think is that the eggs came out and spread more baby clockworks. But how they get in the past, I hsvr no idea. Mabye by a time machine?!
I thought about that, but I think those are simply killer robots. But, we never saw them come out of there... so who knows :P. If those eggs were tiny Clockwerks, than the way of explaining this is time travel.
And if Penelope was blackmailed and was trying warn Bentley... I think that the movie story could be about the Sly Cooper parent's. And if there was someone behind Le Paradox, like Clockwerk. Le Paradox was trying to destroy Cooper' lineage like Clockwerk. I think that Penelope found out that Clockwerk was behind Le Paradox, or at least, who killed Sly' parents, or Clockwerk knows about the Coopers, that Sly hasn't ever realized, the secret that the Coopers were trying to protect. That would take us back to the sly cooper 1. Would finally tell us who killed sly cooper' parents, what is the connection between the Clockwerk and the Coopers. I think that, when Mugshot worked with Sly father, they became very good friends and that eventually Sly father told Mugshot the true about his lineage. After Sly father died, felt the obligation of helping protecting that secret, when Mugshot (before he was hidden because the same persons who killed sly parents and were behind Le Paradox were trying to find himself because he also knew also about that secret) knew that Sly desappeared after this events and figured that the secret was in danger because of the things happened, Mugshot went to the people that were trying to find Sly (Bentley, Murray, Carmelita, ) and told them what he knew and so they start looking for the responsible. Penelope: I think that Penelope wasn't jealous of Sly. Penelope, at some time, discover something that lead her starting to came closer to the reason of this problems or who... The person behind all of this found out that Penelope was coming closer and so because of it, that person blackmailed her with the threat of killing Bentley and that the only way of save Bentley were build him a time machine so that he could destroy Sly lineage and so Sly would never exist and that way Bentley never meet Sly and Bentley would be save. This is scenario of Sly Cooper 4... Instead of jealousy, it was a love crime. When she fights with Sly as Black Knight, she could told the real reason but because of the passion with Bentley, she thinks that kill Sly is only way to Bentley be saved. Is because of that, that she said that they could be rich because if Bentley earlier went away with Penelope, there was a chance to save him because of the money that they could get with their inventions. Sly Cooper 5 / Movie : I think that the Sly Cooper 5 or the movie could be around this story in two worlds: - 1º world: Sly friends are trying find Sly and Mugshot appeared told them what he knew (like I said before) and together start trying find the responsible(). The story would be in the chapters. In each chapter, there will be two parts: 1ºpart: Mugshot tell the part of the story of one of the ancestors of Sly (in the previous game) which explains the ancestor relation with the secret, and in this part, the player controls the ancestor now alone explaining the relation of the ancestor with the secret. 2º part: This part consist in the Sly friends and Mugshot searching the first place looking for clues of the location of the responsible. --In the next chapter, is explained the relation of another ancestor with the secret, and after Sly friends continue searching the responsible in another place. --Meanwhile, in some of the firsts places that Sly friends are searching, Penelope appears and explains his story in Sly Cooper 4, apologizing for what happened, start helping and says that there is the possibility of Sly staying alive but in another time. And so as they try to find the Clockwerk, they try find out of saving Sly. - 2º world: Sly goes to a desert and tries to survive. At some time, he discover his ancestor of Egiptian Age, explains all he and his friends had been through and his ancestor explains the secret that their lineage are trying to protect and so became master of Sly and teaches Sly so when he goes back to the present, he could save his lineage secret. In the last part, Sly friends can bring back Sly and together they go after the responsible ().
Omg first you actually respond on a super old video, then you like my idea I must be dreaming. Ever since I saw I theory from you I was in love with your Sly content, I feel like I found people who want more just like me!
Spoilers for Sly 2: Considering Neela looked exactly like Clockwerk whenever she transformed herself, it would make sense if Penelope was Clockwerk. Especially if she showed up around the same Era that Sly landed in. After all of the issues with Bentley and the Cooper gang, if she went back in time to destroy the lineage, she could. It would also explain how Clockwerk roboticized himself in a time period where that shouldn’t have been possible.
I think the Easter egg is the clockwork minions...and they somehow where able to time travel just because we see under Clockworks armor in the first game. He is alot bigger. The Easter Eggs are more the size of the smaller ones...but yeah I do like the theory Penelope is Clockwork. She does hate Sly. That would be fun to see personally.
@@VtnVivi It was meant as two separate things the Easter egg and the Penelope thing. If she is idk why an owl idk. I like the other purple lady as well being Clockwork the whole time somehow via time travel but each of these is a mote point considering again we did see him under the armor and he was indeed an owl especially because he spoke actually owl...so he would be his own character. I think the more plausible theory you gave was Penelope working with Clockwork...or what if purple lady did idk.
I think the crazy theory you ended on - about her being Clockwerk himself - may be plausible. The reason I say this is because she was able to disguise herself quite well when she was the Black Baron - voice and body wise. It's possible to believe that her hatred for the Cooper gang extended beyond just Sly Cooper himself, more specifically onto both him and his ancestry. So perhaps, at one point or another, she learned of Clockwerk. Now, if she got stuck in the past, I think that would add credibility to this. Having heard about Clockwerk from the gang, she could have built Clockwerk and somehow managed to transfer her hatred into the mechanical bird. Now how that would work, I don't know, but it would explain the hatred for Sly's ancestry. Either way, it could be any other theory you've mentioned. But if they did something like this, it would explain a lot of things about Clockwerks connection to Sly's family. Not to mention it would be one hell of a plot twist.
Clockwerk's advanced machinery in Ancient Egypt might make one think hey it's Penelope, but to go too such lengths? Sacrificing your body, risk of dying? I don't see Penelope going through all that. Penelope simply wants recognition, money and fortune, something she believed Sly was stopping Bentley from reaching. As for her building Clockwerk, that one makes more sense.
maybe she worked with the police during sly 3 and she waited and waited and used Bentleys time machine when it was made (snuck into it) and went into sly 3 era and became the red baron to get close to the gang so she worked with police waited for Bentley to make a time machine went in it became close with the sly gang and then the story goes on...
I hated the Penelope plot twist. I thought it was completely out of character, her motivation is stupid, and it felt like an extremely forced move that ruined a character that I liked in Sly 3. Penelope as a villain was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now. Clockwerk should have occupied the spot she took in Thieves In Time.
While I'm at it, am I the only one that thinks that Bob Cooper was dumb? They had an entire history of Cooper ancestors to create worlds around, each a detailed character with rich, untapped history just waiting to be explored. But nope. Instead we have Bob Cooper for the kiddies. It's a fucking joke. And that pissed me off as well. I see him the way many Star Wars fans see Jar Jar.
It was too quick and too unexpected, but I don't completely hate the idea. If there was more explanation as to why she really did what she did, then it would've made a bit more sense. This is something they need to expand on in Sly 5. I want Clockwerk to return in Sly 5 and deal with him once and for all.
Bob Cooper is from 10 000 BC, the brain was yet to be evolved. It makes sense why he was acting that way. Bob is the one who came up the cane. As time went by, it evolved.
I just think it takes away from the grandness of the cooper line knowing that the first one reduced to a comic relief character. They should have kept it at Slytunkhamen I.
Nicholas Kreutzer you hit the nail right on the head with that, I just finished ep 4 of thieves in time and I must say right now I'm thinking this game became a disappointment (for the most part).
In a way she turned out very similar to Dr M. When he worked with Sly's father, he felt dissatisfied. History has repeated itself with Penelope betraying Sly's gang. She felt Bentley's talents were being wasted.
If another sequel is made, It'll be interesting to see where things lead. She'll possibly be the main villain.
Slight issue about Clockwerk not knowing about Sly with that first theory: it's said that Clockwerk knows the Coopers had a son, and that he wanted to show the world how little they are without the Thievius Raccoonus
Here is one theory: someone wrote a sly cooper fanfiction that told that the cooper gang kept the only surviving part of Clockwork, his eye (which is a treasure in Sly 4), with them to keep it out of the wrong hands. Penelope found the eye, and was slowly hypnotized by it, resulting in her fall from grace. Penelope could be under the subtle control of Clockwork and may end up going back in time and turning Clockwork into a machine. The logos she's leaving behind could be her way of fighting Clockwork's influence and signaling the gang that something is gonna happen and to come stop her.
Hmm...Clockwerk hypnotising Penelope into making her turn Clockwerk robotic....It sounds like Clockwerk knew Penelope was originally the one who turned him, basically a time loop exists.
You know Penelope is a lot like Terra from Teen Titans because they both betrayed their teams and broke the heart of a member who loved them
Oh!
Terra’s betrayal was well thought out even in the comic it’s based on. Her being a loner who couldn’t relate to people because of her lack of control of her powers made sense. Penelope’s plot twist isn’t well thought out at all because it’s never established that she was in it for the money (even her time as the Black Baron was just to prove her worth as an RC specialist) it’s also clear in the cutscene that she was perfectly content with Bentley. Then all of a sudden over the years she left and got upset that Bentley held on to the Cooper Gangs code of never thieving solely to become rich .It’s never established that she knows Sly was faking amnesia. (or that Bentley was trying to look for him) Bentley only got involved once the Thievius Raccoonus started disappearing and it’s established she left before then. So why go through the trouble of joining a villain’s plot to take down the family legacy of your boyfriend’s closest friend if that friend is for all intense and purposes retired and only started thieving again to prevent the guy you willingly agreed to work for from erasing his family legacy? There’s also the fact that Sly saved her from an arranged marriage to a chauvinist pirate and idk left her a portion of his family fortune.
The true reason might be Clockwerk’s death.
@@skylerb97 And how about if she wipes out slys family SHE WILL NEVER HAVE MET BENTLY!
I feel like if Sucker Punch made Sly 4 we would find out exactly how Clockwork got his armor and Hate Chip. I always thought that he would practice ancient techniques to keep himself healthy until he found a way to gain immortality.
+tang484 Since Sly 4 was left with a cliffhanger, where Sly suddenly time travelled, finding out how Clockwerk got his armor and hate chip would be most probable. We don't know in which time period Clockwerk was actually born nor do we know who made him start this rivalry. Maybe all of this could've started in Ancient Egypt, where Sly wound up! Maybe clockwork could've learned these ancient techniques in Ancient Egypt!
Shut the hell up
I like to think Penelope made Clockwerks armour, I mean, Sly mentioned Clockwerk replacing parts of himself with machineary, but were are never told WHO built them. People just assume Clockwerk built them himself, but how can he? Look at his anatomy, no way he could grasp heavy machineary with them wings (That at the time that were skin and feathers)
About her logo. it's no gas mask, it's just a simplified mouse head ^_^
Her postcards, well one is in Paris, what if, she time traveled to where Sly was on the first level in Sly 2 with Dimitri.
And Arpeggio has a blimp in paris, You know who has a blimp but could time travel? Le Paradox. These two blimps could have been connected to make the giant blimp of the last episode of Sly 2
I also have a theory of how Penelope influenced Sly 2 and the Clockwerk parts. She knew already Sly would find the parts, But she also wanted to make some money ("We could have made millions" sggests sheloves money), knowing full well Sly would retrieve the parts, she stole the parts and sold them the the Klaww Gang to be found by Sly later.
Penelope turning Clockwerk into what he was is very possible! Future tech in Ancient Egypt nah, something's up... unless Clockwerk met this sorcerer who had powers who knows (dark magic is a thing in the series). About the stolen parts, Neyla said it was a Klaww Gang job, but that's according to Neyla right? What if someone else was involved, perhaps Penelope like you mentioned. If it were Penelope, I think someone from the Klaww gang would've had revealed it already.
Exactly, Nobody in sly 2 mentioned who let it on that the Clockwerk parts were stealable to the Klaww Gang. Neyla is a likely source but I doubt she wanted money, She wanted to become Clock-la so she must have wanted the parts for herself.
Also what if, Penelope at one point, time traveled back to where she orignally met the gang in Holland, and set booby traps up, Letting Mugshot know when the cooper Hangar is most vunerable. And what if, she did this more than once, there are 4 blimps around Holland what if, they're all Penelopes tiem traveling blimps at different points in histroy. Cheking up on her past self, giving her past self advice. "I guess I'm kinda relieved" When penelope said that to Sly, it really didn't sound sincere.
** LEGALIZE AWOO ** If Penelope from the future tried giving advice to her past self either bad or good, it doesn't seem to have worked out right? Her plan to win over Bentley in Sly 4 backfired. I feel like Penelope is planning something big and we'll get to see that in Sly 5.
You thought wrong
Here's another theory: Penelope may have traveled back in time to find Dr. M after the original Cooper Gang disbanded. She may have told him that she agrees with his theory of using their intellect to reshape the world, instead of using it for thievery. They would than work together to turn Clockwerk into a robot. Dr. M would than gather the other four members of the Fiendish Five, and then lead them to Sly's parents' house, where they would kill his parents and steal journal's pages. In return for showing him where the current generation of Coopers lived, Clockwerk might have given Dr. M a ride on his back to the island where the Cooper vault was, hence the reason as to how Dr. M got there in the first place in "Honor Among Thieves". But what do you think? Is this theory worthy of a theory video centered around Dr. M? If so/not, why/why not?
+Carl Johnston A theory regarding Dr. M should be up this week :P. If Penelope did work with Dr. M, then that means she was tricking the whole gang into believing she was good in Sly 3. About the cooper vault, Dr. M probably already knew about it when he used to work with the Coopers. Eventually, his hate lead him towards wanting to steal all the fortune in the vault; who knows, all that fortune was probably because of him and just for pay back ,he decided to retake everything. He felt used, he felt like he needed some of that fortune after all the help he gave to the Coopers back then. Out of all this Dr. M being involved with Clockwerk is very possible. Penelope and Dr. M, on the other hand, it's harder to imagine, simply due to the fact that she was helping the gang in Sly 3. Unless...Penelope planned all this, Clockwerk noticed that Penelope is far more valuable than Dr. M (she built a time machine for the Le Paradox after all). Clockwerk eventually just used Sly and the gang to get rid of Dr. M (who knows, Clockwerk was perhaps afraid that Dr. M would reveal his secret, the secret could be that clockwerk will return) So as a result, Penelope helped the gang on Kaine Island just to hide any suspicious evidence. Clockwerk is one very mysterious character, one can come up with a lot of theories. This is getting very confusing, hopefully I can explain all this in a video XD.
I can actually see Penolope making clockwerk like holy shit that would be an awesome plot twist to be honest! Then she's the one who cause the events of Sly 1
I know right, crazy!
VTNVIVI wait a second if Penelope is clockwork and Neyla is clockla then Penelope is Neyla there is pure evidence if I'm wrong correct me
Then it would be another self containing paradox, without Sly she would have never met Bentley. Though it is plausible for her to be involved rather than being the fiend herself since Clockwreck DID NOT WANT TO OUTRIGHT KILL SLY, he wanted to make him suffer and then end him. He said so himself in the first game!
@@rockin_fuzzy1236 Well, they already have something in common: they were both revealed to be traitors.
But their personalities are different. I don't think they can be one and the same. Neyla was darker than Penelope.
Penelope going bad out of ambition when realizing how far her and Bentley's inventions could take them, I am a bit okay with that as her reason for her betrayal. But with her fate remaining a mystery though I makes me demand a Sly Cooper 5 or at least an explanation of what she is doing. Does she regret her actions, does she want to at least make thing right with Bentley? It's irritating when a likable character goes bad then fads into obscurity when they lose.
I liked the twist, but yes it needs more background.
I never liked Penelope as a villain back in 2013 it's 2015 and I still hate the idea when their will bring Sly 5 to life I don't want her to be the main villain I want her to redeem herself her say sorry to the gang if not well I don't want that to happen.
+JamesTheBrony That could also happen :)
Me to man. Sanzaru got her character wrong.
+optimusN64 Actually, Sly 3 proves that Penelope's character in Thieves in Time is a character for her. Why and how. Well, listen to what she said in Sly 4. she said that Sly was taking advantage of Bentley and keeping him from his full potential. Sound familiar? Because it's the same thing that happened to Dr.M, who as you know was the brains of sly's fathers gang, who he felt like was being taken advantage of. And because Penelope and Bentley are the brains of the gang, it would make sense for her to get this idea.
creeper 321448 So Penelope thought that Sly and Murray were taking advantage of them? Possible! We never actually knew why Dr. M felt like he was being used, what if he met someone who despised the Coopers? That someone maybe kinda brainwashed him into thinking he's just a tool.
VtnVivi That's true maybe he somehow met Clockwerk and the evil owl brainwashed Dr.M into believing that he was being used. This could be made into a video you know? I'd like to hear what you think about this subject.
I think she has multiple personality
No wrong
That gas mask shit is all wrong just because of your point of view. Penelope doesnt have a gas mask in thise spray paints, its just her nose and glasses that make it look like that.
😂😂😂😂
I think everything in that first part of that one comment makes so much sense now that I think about it! We just need Sly 5 even more now so that we can see Penelope in that role! 0.0
+Nixter97 Yup!
Hamza Barg Hmm...
If Penelope made clockwerk than she's the reason they even met her, because the reason they found the vault in 3 was because the gang broke up in 2 cause of clockwerk breaking bentleys legs
I wish I can give u more likes, like your videos man
Thank you!
Penelope can't be clockwork because then why would she work with Bentley if Bentley is working for sly.
Becouse so she can get information
I think Penelope could have a split-personality disorder, does anybody think that?
ether that or the more obvious, Le Paradox had Miss Decibel hypnotize her
Come to think of it what if penelope's time machine needs artifacts to time travel like bentley's?
@@ivanacurna6577 I know this was 10 months ago.
But it's been confirmed in game that Her blimp didn't need a item just the year unlike Bentley's
Clockwerk eyes changed Between red and Yellow in the first game Also Murray is Pink in animated Cutscenes in Sly 2 and 3 but is purple in game meanwhile in Sly 4 he is purple in Animated Cutscenes and Pink in game so developers do that on purpose I guess
+MP2066 In the ending of Sly 1, Clockwerk's eyes were shown red yeah! But the same scene was shown shown in Sly 2, with Clockwerk's eyes yellow, maybe the developers are really doing it on purpose.
yeah and in the fight itself it switches I believe
Hmm I didn't think it was a gas mask on her logo, I thought it was her snout but again like always u have a point
I wasn't upset about Penelope betrayal like some fans, but i was annoyed that it was so obvious and wasn't really at least foreshadowed well
It just needs more depth to it, like will Sly 5 dive deeper into her motives?
I'm hoping for some redemption in Penelope. Maybe having her and Sly play a long con to prove her place in the Cooper gang. Because if she help Clockworth become who he is, then it maybe Bentley to fully defeat her.
2:15 But Sly basically retired at that point the team basically disbanded (until the time travel situation), so she and Bentley were together the whole time, so I don't think that it was jealousy. I think it was Le Paradox and Ms. D came in and brainwashed Penelope and erased the first encounter from Bentley's memories and before he could figure out what happened, he notices the pages were vanishing.
+MrXemrox 2:15 is like a summary of what happened in Sly 3, when the Black Baron turned out to be Penelope. After beating Dr. M, that's when the team retired, well technically when Sly pretended of having amnesia. Penelope being brainwashed could be likely, it would explain her sudden disappearance more easily.
Clever theory, for some odd reason when I saw penelopes betrayal, clockwerk randomly popped up. We can't confirm however that the cameos he made in thieves in time were Canon.
I believe clockwerk did in fact survive off of hate and at some point with his obsession of trying to outsmart the Cooper's, created the technology to ensure he would continue living and the replace his body with robotics. With this idea of early technological advancement in mind. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think he created a time machine before Bentley and used it to travel back in time to the era's he had already lived through to study the Cooper's to prepare for his encounter with Sly.
Clockwerks immortallity can also be brought into question; whether or not he actually lived for thousands of years or just encountered a Cooper, maybe Connor, in the present and time traveled in order to try to get an idea of how to kill him.
I have another theory of clockwerks origins that would explain his large size and the fact that he appeared during the time of the Cave Cooper.
If we take that 10 000BC easter egg as canon, then it could be he originated from the future and started from there. Thing is, if he had killed Bob, Coopers would be erased and there wouldn't be hate left to live off on.
@@VtnVivi it was never confirmed that clockwerk did kill any other Coopers besides Sly's parents, he said himself that the Coopers were usually a step ahead of him. In fact probably the only reason he could kill Sky's parents was because he had backup.
SKY🤔😂
I wouldn't think that she was clockwork
Me neither.
It’s a pretty decent theory, my only problem with it is that Penelope is fully aware of how events turned out between Sly and Clockwerk, and if she was to go back in time to suit up Clockwerk against Sly she would’ve done more to be sure Clockwerk would succeed in killing Sly. If there is to be a Sly 5, I can’t imagine Penelope playing any other role than the leader of her own gang with the sole purpose of destroying the Cooper gang. Now that her breakup with Bentley seems quite unlikely to rekindle, I imagine she’ll take on a scorched earth policy and try to destroy the Cooper gang entirely.
Good point actually. Perhaps she thought she would succeed, but she didn't, pretty much created a stable time loop.
Awesome video VtnVivi! Penelope being clockwerk sounds crazy but who knows O_O
+ComputerCatGaming Thanks!
VtnVivi Btw you are awesome
+ComputerCatGaming :D
I simple have nothing to say, other than the fact that my mind is completely blown after watching this video!!!
+squirtytrev Haha :p
6:08 you see the symbol in the top right corner
Yup!
omg good job man im so confused what sly 5 is gonna be about if they make it!! :0 XD good job vivi!! love ur videos as usual! i think mabey her going back in time is not that crazy XD its a god theory!
Glad you liked it :D (This video is so old, I sounded different XD)
VTNVIVI oh yep she is clockwerk confirmed
lol I found your channel a while back, still tryin to watch them all XD!
Thats not the time machine in the postcard, thats the ship that one of Mugshot's pilot's blew up in the 5min trailer for Sly 4
Yes, that I found out eventually :)
Couldn't sly communicate with Bentley by writing in Slytunkamens the virus Raccoonus in Egypt? If he wrote it wouldn't it appear in front of Bentleys eyes?
+MinecraftdSimmer That could be possible. Since parts of the Thievius Raccoonus vanished when the past was altered, adding stuff from the past could appear in the future.
sly cooper is literally life I have played these games since I was little they came out a few days after my birthday well the first one did
+jovdyn dearing :D
Sly 5 is definitely needed 😭, I need to know how the series finishes. I have so many theories
What I think Clockwerk is doing in the past in the fourth game is that first he is trying to kill the ancestor in that era and second that he is keeping an eye on Penelope or anything to do with her. Maybe Penelope told Clockwerk what her plan was in the past and he is looking at it to see if Sly really is going to be a threat or not. Maybe Penelope asked Clockwerk for help but he didn't because Penelope told him what would happen when Sly grew up, or maybe he just didn't want to help out because he already got his end of the deal, being immortal. This is just something I thought of when he mentioned Penelope meeting Clockwerk as a possibility.
Those easter eggs could represent how Clockwerk was keeping an eye on the Coopers. As for Clockwerk keeping an eye on Penelope hmm... She could have time travelled from the future to warn him that's a possibility. If Penelope had sought help from Clockwerk, maybe he would've killed Sly early and that would've affected Penelope's future with Bentley assuming she has feelings for him still.
Well seeing how a lot of people don't seem to like Penelope's betrayal for particular reasons, I'm honestly somewhere in the middle ground. On one hand, she did join the Cooper gang to help with the vault job after the ACES. However, she did play as the Black Baron and did cheat against the competition. One thing I recall years ago about why Penelope turned against Bentley and the Cooper gang is because she had similar yet different feelings as Dr. M in Sly 3. Sly's father wasn't a good friend to Dr. M, yet Sly was to Penelope. They tried to do something on the family name of Cooper and felt jealous of being held back from reaching their full potential.
This theorizing was amazing!! Seriously, Sadly I've never gotten to play the games myself, as I don't even own a playstation, but I've been in love with this series for a long time, I'd love to find out the story behind some of these untold mysteries.
+EmoGamer :D
Don’t know if you’re still reading comments for this, but I’m still super hyped for a potential 5th game. But something I did want to mention was the “hypnotic lightshow of hate” in Sly 2. The master plan was to give Arpeggio, once merged with Clockwerk, an artificial immortality by brainwashing people in Paris to become violent and basically kill and hate each other. If Clockwerk can absorb other’s hate, he may not need Sly eventually to become immortal. Fortunately for us he failed, but I would love to see more about what his motivations are post end of the coopers, supposing he wins.
There could be a slight chance of Penelope being the villain in Sly 5, depending if it happens. Great theory by the way.
I really hope Penelope turns back to the sly cooper gang and that she has a reason for just randomly changing her personality.
Either Penelope was Brainwashed by Miss Deciple or her mind was Twisted by Clockwork's Brain
To me, it makes sense that Penelope has the ability to see to what time periods her machine traveled to. So maybe she's trying to locate Sly, or help Bentley locate him, for whatever reason, but since she only went to Medieval England, she doesn't know where Sly could have been stranded.
She could be looking for Sly! Why though? To hurt him or gain forgiveness?
Penelope's intentions were "good" but misguided: Penelope didn't hate Sly but perhaps during the time Sly was pretending to have amnesia and have a relationship with Carmelita, Bentley tells her about their adventures together. But begins to feel that Sly treated Bentley like a sidekick, similar to Dr. M, and while they created inventions together that Sly was holding him back. Like she said in Sly 4 " you waste your talents and genius on petty crimes for a thief" which for Penelope, Bentley could do so much more than helping Sly with him doing heists and stealing things. Sly is the thief that steals things that's his thing, though Bentley squandered his talents helping Sly when he could accomplish so much more. Any thoughts on this VTNVIVI?
Someone left a comment in Deviant art , com She is leaving post cards to get close to Bently, but keeping her distance from him because she realizes what she has done and still love Bently. Knowing she can never return to him. Something to that affect.
I could imagine something like this.
I just got to of mice and mechs an i could help but notice all the local owls are flying around with mice in their talons
I am glad I am not the only one who thinks that Penelope and Clockwerk could have a connections because of there similar hatred towards the Cooper Gang, as well as Penelope's time machine.
Well, we know penelope loves the color Black "Wink"
those post cards mean she escaped out of jail the other one with the lab means she is building another time machine and the last one where sly was means she is looking for him it's in order
+jovdyn dearing Interesting!
8:34 SHE'S CLOCKWORK!
Something many bring up all the time, why would she turn into an owl really? Does she despise Sly that much as to go back in time and change everything? Hmm...I can't imagine it. As for her helping Clockwerk via time travel, now that's different :)
@@VtnVivi Yeah I agree.
I think she went back in time, make Clockwerk, or Clockwork, or however his name is spelled, from scratch, and her hatred for Sly for "changing" Bently, helped her crate the Hate Chip. Because of her engineering mastery, she wasable to create something that will last through all of time, until Sly and the gang defeat him fully at the end of Sly 2, as Clock-la
This is a possibility!
I just realized the plot shoots itself in the foot if penelope did sell out the time machine and paradox did win she and bently would never had met no book means no clockwerk which means sly never meets bentley and penelope never meets bentley... i cant believe i didnt think of that before
I've been reading the comments and spotted an interesting theory. It's very possible she was responsible for turning Clockwerk robotic.
He had cameos throughout each episode in this game and even existed as far back as the ice ages. He had to have help from someone, I doubt he would've been able to modify himself. He couldn't possibly have had the technology to do that to himself in the centuries prior to the series. Very likely she traveled through time.
I completely understand!
@@VtnVivi I've been playing the game again lately and spotted something in the opening level in the museum. During Bentley's section when you reach that computer room, there are chalkboards on both sides of the room. I presume they are blueprints for Le Paradox's blimp. If you zoom in on some of the writing, I spotted the word 'Clocwerk' It's very possible Penelope was using that room to design the blimp.
the third picture which VTNVIVI thought was a lab, is actually from the plane on the "time is everything!" video
You are correct ;)
i already knew she was in the game when sly went to the west because their was peneloepe's signature in the time machine
It might be possible that Penelope did in fact go back in time, met (pre-robotic) Clockwerk and helped him become immortal in hopes that he would one day, eventually wiped out the entire Cooper family line and Sly Cooper himself if she really hated Sly so much!
That'd be HUGE!
VTNVIVI i was hoping you could maybe answer these 3 questions
1.What motive did Rajan and jean bison have for joining the klaw gang in sly 2?
2.what did clockwerk say to the other four fiendish five members Mugshot,Panda King,Ms.Ruby,Sir Raleigh to make them join him in sly 1.
3.what happens to the panda king and the guru in sly 5 as they are not mentioned?.
1. Money. The Klaww Gang was all that from the very start. Once they got the Clockwerk parts, the process was even simpler, but Arpeggio had his own plans.
2. We have no clue, we can only speculate. Raleigh did aid the gang when it came tech, but that was it. They were on their own. Most likely money by Clockwerk or forced against their will.
3. You mean Sly 4? The guru was last mentioned in Sly 3's credit, in New York. Well tried escaping the attention by fleeing to New York, but people still managed to find him aka more students. Panda King is currently keeping an eye on his daughter's love interest, to see who's suitable, he currently remains in China. As for why they weren't mentioned in Sly 4, well it's Sanzaru.
Also, I wouldn't put anything passed Penelope. She could very well be Clockwerk, but I think if she was, she would have mentioned it when she encountered Sly in Russia (Sly 1) However I would be onboard if it's revealed that Penelope built Clockwerk's armor for him... PLOOOOOT SWIIIIIIIIIST!!!
+C Carter I think her building the armour could be most likely!
The whole Penelope creating Clockwerk is pretty cool but Clockwerk didn't kill Sly's partents to stop him from being born. Clockwerk knew Sly existed and left him alive to see how he would fail without the Thevious Racoonis
Yes Clockwerk did that! I feel there's more to it, he needs hate to survive, that constant reminder of Sly being alive was juice.
The comment you cited at 6:29 would be a causal loop. A causal loop is when event B causes event A to happen (and to make event A possible to begin with). Let's say event A is Sly destroying Clockwerk and event B is that Penelope deciding to travel back in time to help Clockwerk convert to a machine.
The Cooper gang met Penelope AFTER destroying Clockwerk. Penelope didn't know about the Coopers (let's assume that) before she met the gang. And let's also assume that Sly and Bentley told Penelope about the Cooper family and that they destroyed Clockwerk, BEFORE she decides to leave Bentley and travel back in time. Now, what Bentley and Sly told Penelope, is the result of her decision that haven't been made yet. Since Penelope haven't made the decision to travel back yet, the Cooper gang can't have destroyed Clockwerk. Ergo, (le)paradox. Causal loop.
If my assumption that Penelope didn't know about the Coopers is false, and that she somehow already were affiliated with Clockwerk, then it may have been that she used Bentley to create a time machine for her, and that this was all a part of a grand scheme.
Then again, how could Penelope be the one responsible for converting Clockwerk into a machine? She must first have been affiliated with Clockwerk somehow (maybe through meeting Clockwerk before he died), and been told to use Bentley to create a time machine. And then travelling back in time to convert Clockwerk. Argh. This would also be a causal loop. Actually, I don't see a way for someone from the future (aka sometime after Clockwerk is converted) to somehow be able to be the one responsible for helping Clockwerk in converting.
Thanks for sharing interesting read! It's time travel in the end, it's just confusing. I do believe Penelope being the cause of all this is possible, have you played Jak & Daxter, the whole idea of future Jak sending young Jak to the past to Sandover village? It's all a loop.
No, I haven't, but I've actually wanted to play them for a long time. Which one of the games does what you described happen in?
***** Jak & Daxter 2
I'm sorry but I have to ask. Bentley said that he's looked in the past history for Sly. But what if he's not there. This theory does make a lot of sense, but it bothers me. If Paradox has a time machine that does not require an artifact from that period, doesn't that mean that that he's in the future? Does that mean that we'll have Sly Cooper Future?
+Jake Luca Do you mean Paradox is from the future? All we know is that Penelope helped build his time machine using Bentley's blueprints.
+VtnVivi No. What I mean is that when you beat paradox, the time machine malfunctions. My theory is that the time machine didn't send Sly to the past, but to the future.
+Jake Luca Ohhh! If he did end up in the future, I really wonder what would wait for him over there.
+VtnVivi I'm going to call it. He meets his son and his son helps him get back.
So, Penelope was jealous of Bentley and Sly, but Sly was pretending to have amnesia, so if he interacted with Bentley or Murray he would blow his cover. But when Penelope joined Le Paradox she forced Bentley to talk and work with Sly more/ again... so her plan makes no sense!!!!! Why would she make her boyfriend do what she hates?! WHA-?!
Wait wait... Penelope was not jealous of Bentley, she thought Sly was stopping him from reaching his potential. She joined Le Paradox most likely for money. Bentley thought she was being used as a puppet.
vtnvivi how did general taso from sly 3 know about the panda king when he was member of the fiendish five as he told sly in their second fight "the panda king in his day was magnificent"?.Also how was the mask of dark earth created/formed?.
I really hated what they did to Penelope. Sanzaru completely changed who she was as a character, making her want Power and Authority. She was the Black Baron because she simply wanted to Fly and the Persona got to her. But she left that all behind to join Sly and the Gang and even fell in love with Bentley. She never showed interest in making super weapons and selling them to the highest bidder. Why have her become a Twist Villain? Because they couldn't't come up with a new villain that could work on their own. Sanzaru is NOT Sucker Punch. This was like J&D Lost Frontier Levels of Poor writing.
My Sister was a DIE-HARD Sly fan and she was pretty heartbroken with Thieves in Time.
I don't hate the idea of Penelope being bad, heck her persona as the Black Baron surely hinted at her being ruthless towards her guards and contestants. Remember, we don't know the exact time gap between Sly 3's ending and Sly 4, Sanzaru could've used that as an opportunity to further expand on Penelope's way of thinking. I don't hate it, it just needed more.
@@VtnVivi I feel like to broke her character and lacked consistency. My Sister, a Die Hard Sly fan immediately quit playing Thieves in Time when she saw that part and refused to finish it. Having a Villain twist isn't a bad thing, Neyla was handled well, but Penelope didn't;t line up with who she was in the previous game and that took me out of the experience.
To me not only did I not care for Thieves in Time's story but it literally hurt my eyes, it cause eye strain and I needed to wear sunglasses in certain parts of the game. This game was so bad it literally Hurt Me.
if she is involved with clockwork then safe to say that maybe both clockwork and her were made into immortal bodies but she used the time travel blue prints to add on to herself that would mean the eye you get as a treasure is her's. and if anyone is asking why she would make herself look like clockwork there would be two reasons 1. because she might want to get close to clockwork as we don't even know why he forms the claw gang anyways nor why he targets only coopers, or 2. it could just be her way in saying that she was what brought them together in the first place to spite bently.
Thanks for sharing!
I hope Penelope does Return in Sly Cooper 5
I think Penelope will be the main villain in sly cooper 5 if sony decided to make sly 5 I hope they do make me it the game
If she is, I just hope they have a good excuse.
Vtnvivi I hope do have they excuse
because remember broke out prison so may they she playing cat and mouse
With Bentley remember she it a mean to a end so guessing she going to bad agian
Also there will not be a sly5, sony didnt advertise the game at all so it didnt do well. Sanzaru said in an interview they have no plans to make another sly game ever.
+Nanokoex Hmm.. well technically, at e3 2015, Sanzaru was interviewed and they mentioned that they're up for it if Sony allows them. Sanzaru mentioned that people should just contact Sony; however, I don't think Sony will even respond at all. If the movie does well, whenever it gets released, maybe that will push Sony.
VtnVivi
Dude, if the movi does well, they'll just reboot the gang, and then we'll never know what could have been with that secret ending
Clockwork was aware of Sly being born and left him alive on purpose, stating that it was the thievius raccoonus that made the Cooper legacy what it was. If Clockwork would have met Penelope he would have known this was wrong and probably just killed him too.
+Quantum Night Nice thought! What could also happen is that when Penelope meets Clockwerk, she mentions to him about the thievius Raccoonus, maybe he didn't know about it back then. A deal could have been made such as follows: I'll make you immortal as long as you take away the things that matter to Sly (his parents). She mentions that the thievius raccoonus is what kept Sly going, therefore she asks him to destroy it in Sly's timeline, whenever he has the chance. Penelope would think that without the book, Sly would be nothing (that's why Clockwerk spared him, he wanted him to feel worthless aka Penelope's order). Who knows, Penelope could've been time travelling this whole time and keeping an eye on Clockwerk's mission.
my personal headcannon/theory about penelope's betrayal is, admittedly, fairly "cheap", but in both sly 2, and sly 4, we have alot of elements of Mind Control, its even mentioned in Sly 4 that the mind control used there is similar what they encountered in "Prague", aka, the hypnotism of the Contessa, as that all happened in Prague, and was all about how she hypnotized criminals to make them reveal their loot, and also hypnotizing carmelita to take the fall and be her "new best friend", etc. Well, what if Paradox used Miss Decibel's mind control to "convince" penelope of stealing bently's plans and all that. Miss Decibel sure seemed to be the one "closest" to Paradox, at least as a means to an end, he may have seduced her and then convinced her to hypnotize penelope to obtain her services.
Main Reason i believe mind control to be more plausible for penelopes betrayal, is frankly because penelopes personality in sly 4 feels absolutely nothing like sly 3's depiction of her. Penelope were frequently shown to be very excited about the cooper gang, and even showed great concern for them on numerous occasions, and she even blamed herself for some failures,. SHe was shy and timid and rather nervous, and her attraction and hookup with bently was a result of awesome character growth for both her and bently, as she mounted up the courage to stand for herself and protect someone she loved.
Penelope in Sly 4 by contrast is extremely selfish and contradict herself, going from saying she did it for bently to then trying to kill him, and then also mentioning they could have made millions when they, inherited the cooper vault fortunes from sly, which probably has more money than they would ever need in their lifetime. There is also nothing that suggests that she ever tried to talk to bently about any of this, since bently seems utterly confused and surprised, as tho he never saw any of it coming, i mean, he was worried sick about her because one day she just up and left without a word, you'd think that if she "did it for bently", that she wouldve made a scene befopre she left, but no, she "disappeared".
As such, because of her sudden unexplained personality shift, combined with the re-use of mind control in the penultimate episode of sly 4 and the gangs history with it, i believe its possible that penelope could have been simply mind controlled so that paradox could get his hands on bentlys time machine.
Ofc, it is probably more likely the writers had their own personal interpretation of penelope in sly 3 and thought she would genuinely be like that, and i have probably just thought this personal theory up as a way to tell myself "she could still be the penelope i know and love from sly 3 deep inside".
either way, nice video
Thanks for your take on this! I personally am not a fan of the whole brainwashing idea....it sounds like a ''cheap'' way of undoing what they did in Sly 4 just as you said. Am I saying this theory is impossible? Not at all. It all comes down to how long Decibel's mind control works for....Sly 4 showed no signs of lengthy brainwashing WITHOUT a machine. PLUS, if Penelope were truly brainwashed, she wouldn't have said those negative things about Le Paradox after facing her. The way I see it, we have no clue how much time has passed between the end of Sly 3 and start of Sly 4, enough time has passed for Penelope to get a new or rather should I say a bad perspective on things.
@@VtnVivi a very fair and reasonable point of view. And yeah, decibell's brainwashin def doesnt seem to be quite as effective as the contessa, whom i believe implied that she could hypnotize people without constantly bombard them with hypno waves. But it could also, ironicly perhaps, be a time thing. if she had sufficent time perhaps she no longer would need the machines, but thats pure speculation and there is no way to know for sure since we have no clue for how long penelope was gone before the gang got back together and made their move against paradox.
One of the main reasons i do sort of like the mind control theory tho is mainly because it does offer a, admitedly as ive said, cheap, but at least functional, explanation for possible future games (if we ever get any) to potentially redeem penelope if they so want to, and since mind control has been used in more than one game by now, it would not be something pulled out of the blue. Heck, if the Contessa experimented with mind control it is not unreasonable to think that someone picked up her researched and advanced it further.
Precicely because it isnt out of place within the universe it can be "safely" used i think, maybe not the most interesting option, but definitely a safe option.
Ofc, the darker theories about penelope legit doing it of her own free will are also rather interesting, and its just enjoyable seeing every fans own personal take on it.
: )
Edit: i also just now came to think of one, admitedly more crazy, thought about the whole decibell mind control/hypnotic suggestion shenanigans and that would be if they secretly placed a hypnotizer inside penelopes black knight suit. Small enough to be hidden, not powerfull enough to perform full mind control, but just enough to influence her opinions and thoughts perhaps. Asmitedly, thats a veeeery crazy idea, pretty farfetched, but it could be a crazy possibility perhaps.
I dont really think penelope's logo has a gas mask on it. I think its just a bulbous mouse nose on a long snout.
Clockwerk probably has smaller minions as scouters when the small machine owls can be seen like flying cameras. Remember Clockwerk is a giant owl he wouldn’t just be that small owl that wouldn’t be capable of killing the coopers. Clockwerk could also be the result of maybe him being a pharaoh and maybe in sly 5 sly is the one who sets him off hating the Cooper legacy.
If Sly was responsible unintentionally, he has a huuugge burden ouch.
What I always wondered: how is it possible for Clockwerk to already be a cyborg/robot HUNDREDS of years ago? (I at one point Sly or Bentley said that the technology of Clockwerk was WAY ahead of time, even in Sly 2 his parts were more advanced than anything else) A time machine would be the only explanation here,
+xXYannuschXx Exactly!
VTNVivi i know it's not sly 4 related but how do you suppose Jean Bison from sly 2 episodes 6 and 7,and General Taso from sly 3 episode 4.Found the cooper gang's hideout
Because they're smarter villains :P But good question seeing as how the others weren't able to.
Good theory but i do not believe Penelope is Clockwerk because it was said before in Sly 2 at the start when Sly first mentions Clockwerk that Clockwerk was a normal owl as shown in the photos anyway but because he had so much hatred towards Sly Coopers Family line he covered himself in metal armour in order to be eternal/live forever his hatred basically keeping him alive all those years even Sly questions it in Sly 1 final battle saying 'What so your immortal' to which he replies that hatred kept him alive the real Clockwerk though died in Sly 1 when Sly beat him Neyla in Sly 2 is just her using Clockwerks power for herself.
+TheInfamousify Penelope being Clockwerk would be crazy haha! Since technology was not advanced back then, what if Penelope time travelled and was the one who built his armor? How was Clockwerk capable of putting himself inside a technological armor? Overall, Penelope time travelling could be a cool addition to the story.
clockwork knew slys father had a child he wanted to show that the coopers were nothing without their book so your theory is wrong
Clockwerk explained that in the end yes. Logically, Clockwerk needs hate to survive, he used Sly as his source of hatred. Think about this, how did Clockwerk survive all these years? The hate chip. He made sure the children were born and then got rid of their parents. Of course, Clockwerk mentioned that Coopers always found a way to beat him, we assume he was able to get rid of them at one point.
VTNVIVI yeah but you don't need them to be alive to hate them besides that it seems his sole purpose revolves around the Cooper clan once he's destroyed them what's the point of being alive IF it did kill him it's doubtful since like I said he doesn't need them alive to hate
Mauro Garcia I always believed Clockwerk wanted to live knowing he was the one who got rid of them. We don't know much of his past, perhaps this whole maniacal plan of his was simply to avenge his parents. He did say he wanted to be known as the best thief alive, but I believe there's more to it.
Okay, another way to approach this: Maybe don't see Penelope as a villain in Sly 5 (if that's ever to come), but as the way to get Sly out of ancient egypt? Penelope helped developing the time machine, right? She must have some sort of plans or even her own little time machine in that lab shown on the 3 marked pictures (or something like that). Then, maybe as a payback-gift to show Bentley, she's not (entirely) evil, she travels to ancient egypt, helping Sly get out of it and thus meaning, she'll save him.
No clue on how she would find out, that Sly is stuck in that specific time, but it's only a mere guess.
btw, don't judge me for inconsistency or faulty thinking, I'm not the best theory-developer xD
The only way Penelope would find out about Sly's whereabouts is IF she had some sort of communication device with Paradox's time machine. She would find out the the digits (year of destination)...however, Paradox's plan was to send Carmelita and Sly in an endless loop, who knows if the time machine got stuck on specific time period on accident.
Technically, there could be another way for Penelope to find out, where Sly could have landed. Paradox probably had some sort of list of destinations (while they were working on the time machine) and (maybe) added ancient egypt as such a destination. If Penelope got to read that list, at one point, she had to, since she went to Sir Galleths Time, she could at least try ancient egypt, travel there, search for Sly and bring him back (considering, Sly trusts her)
Maybe Penelope creater Clockwerk because is impossible exists a robot-Owl in since prehistoric
the penelope face is on the bad guys time machine
She did build the time mission for Le Paradox, so it makes sense I guess.
VTNVIVI yeah. Just wanted to point that out.
I think it's possible Penelope could do all that. She does have the brains for it. It is impossible for Penelope to be Clockwork because in Sly Cooper 1 Clockwork fell into lava and was almost destroyed. Penelope would've been killed! She would've had no escape.
Now Clockwerk was all computer and perhaps magic, he could have backed up his brain somewhere. If Penelope were Clockwerk which really doesn't make sense to me, she'd have a backup plan.
Penelope being Clockwork that would be an awesome twist
No
I think you're on to something, VTNVIVI! We all know Clockwerk became immortal after replacing his old body with his robotic one, but we never really thought about how he did this or if anyone helped him become immortal either!
Exactly!
We have lots of questions about her , I hope she locked up and wouldn't escape this time.
But unless we see a new Sly game along with the return of Penelope, we'll probably never know this for sure or where's she at now or what she's planning to do next after having escaped from prison!
Right!
I don’t think Penelope would be clockwerk because I notice that when Neyla wanted to take the body of clockwerk she should have seen Penelope when she was boarding the clockwerk
Thanks for sharing!
Honestly, Thieves in Time's story felt like an ass pull with Penelope suddenly getting jealous, despite all the bonding that came from Dead Man Tell No Tales. Heck, she even had a crush on Sly. With her turning evil, it feels more like that Sanzaru never liked Penelope. We didn't learn to much about her in Honor Among Thieves, but it sure didn't look like Sucker Punch would have done this. Given that many people have had quite the negative outlook on the game (myself included), I'm doubtful that Sucker Punch could rectify Sanzaru's blunders.
+Neko9000 This is how I see it. Sanzaru decided to add a plotwist in order to expand the series. How did Clockwerk turn into a robot? Could Penelope have time travelled to Ancient Egypt? Since Penelope betrayed the gang, I could see her being the cause of the whole Clockwerk mess. But we also have Dr. M for that right? They probably chose Penelope just to make the whole situation unexpected.
And to have an asspull.
Penelope would never kill Slys parents. See, because Slys parents got killed, he got in the orphans house and then met Bentley. So if Slys parents wouldn't have been killed, Sly and Bentley would have never met and Penelope could have had Bentley all for her own.
+Vecent Or if Sly's parents were never killed, then Penelope would have never met Bentley in the first place.
Oh, that's true
Sly probably never become Thief if his parents still alive
***** Probably :)
+VtnVivi are you making dr m video
Another theory, what if Penelope sends those pictures to remind Bentley she dumped his ass
Ouch
Clockwerk's eyes were shown to be red at the end of the boss fight in Sly 1, but that doesn't mean she didn't go back in time and help him.
+JAC 073 You're right, they were shown red in the end. Maybe the glass was showing them yellow for some reason. If not, then I find it very interesting! That red glow just screams out This isn't over! Hmm...
The "Penelope helped Clockwerk become immortal" bit has merit, she is a tech genius and, given the other inventions/technology that exists through out the series, a hate chip to keep him going doesn't seem to far fetched. It would also explain how Clockwerk seemed to be fully mechanical in the various eras in Sly 4 when that was not possible given the limited advancements of each time period. To add to the theory, I'm going to suggest that she likely peeked at the Thievius Raccoonus while it was in Bentley's care, thus knowing what ancestors to target later. After her defeat in England she escaped prison and gathered the necessary things while dropping a few hints to Bentley. For example, the Paris shot is not only from the trailer but Paris was the stage for final battle with Clock-la/Clockwerk hinting at her possible partnership, and the lab may be a hint towards the time machine or her possible secret reading of the Thievius Raccoonus since that was also kept at their lab. Then she partnered with the then organic Clockwerk, who shared a hatred for the Coopers, made him immortal and told him the names and locations of the key ancestors from the book. Clockwerk would likely betray her after she "out lived her usefulness" and so he could be the worlds best and only true thief after killing Sly himself only to fail in the fashion we all know now. Also Penelope's inventions tended to have minor issues or obvious flaws, hence Clockwerk's usually invincible body being made vulnerable by Carmalita's shock pistol (heavy doses of electricity). Thats my two cents, feel free to poke holes, its just a theory.
Thank you for sharing your own point of vue! So way before Sly 4, perhaps during Sly's fake amnesia, Penelope was already having doubts, she started peeking into the book just out of curiosity, to understannd why Bentley is always helping a ''thief''. But, did she have THAT much hatred to go to the past and aid Clockwerk? Perhaps Bentley told her about him or she discovered it on her own via news or the book itself. My 2nd theory, if you just found this channel, is Penelope finds the brain which was never inside Clock-La, the essence/life of Clockwerk. She transfers it to a new Clockwerk body 3.0.
Ya, I didn't pay attention to the publish date on this video so I guess there would be more evolved theories by now. I suppose that one of Clockwerk's eyes survived the hate chip's destruction so its possible the brain could have as well. It would also lend to Clockwerk's final claims that the Cooper gang would never be rid of him, since it seems the crippling of Bentley was more Neyla's doing. I like to think it was less hate for Penelope at first as much as it was her own twisted version of love towards Bentley, trying to "save" him from future Cooper Gang exploits. Then after her defeat in England, Penelope's feelings of true hate for Sly came forward thus leading her down her current path. Anyhow I'll spare you anymore of my theories, heres hoping that Sly 5 happens and/or the TV show does well!
if penlope acutely did make clockwork immortal then that acutely clears up a huge story hole. while we now that clockwer was once just a bird it was never explained how he gained his metal body. if Penelope made it for him then that clears up the issue. however i believe that penolpe's mark on the post cards is a refrence to her loyalty to le paradox and has already broken himm out and is on the run. also i would like to point out that the color of clockwerks eye can change at will so it dosen't matter if their red or yellow.
Who knows, maybe Penelope really did break Le Paradox out of jail. It wasn't shown, but it's possible.
At least we're getting a Sly Cooper tv series, so that should help keep all us Sly Cooper fans happy until whenever Sly 5 comes out.
Well said!
It would make sense as to how clockwork got all those weapons and armor but still around when cave cooper was around
+Blackcarnge X I know right? If not Penelope, then perhaps Dr. M
+VtnVivi I don't think Dr.M had the technology for that and he had no reason to he hated sly and his dad not the whole cooper line
I really hope she isn't clockwerk.
It is unlikely. We have seen Clockwerk in some cutscenes before the time he became a robot. Additionally, Clockwerk in Sly 1 has a lot deeper voice than Penelope. We did see in Sly 2 that whoever controls Clockwerk has mostly the same voice to what they had as a living begin, although a bit more robotic sounding. The theory of Penelope helping Clockwerk is not impossible as long as she was indeed able to travel back in time after the events of Sly 4
In sly 2, if you enter the blimp you have to make a foto from some eggs. What it think is that the eggs came out and spread more baby clockworks. But how they get in the past, I hsvr no idea. Mabye by a time machine?!
I thought about that, but I think those are simply killer robots. But, we never saw them come out of there... so who knows :P. If those eggs were tiny Clockwerks, than the way of explaining this is time travel.
i don't know too how they get in too the past! It was my own theory :P
And if Penelope was blackmailed and was trying warn Bentley... I think that the movie story could be about the Sly Cooper parent's.
And if there was someone behind Le Paradox, like Clockwerk.
Le Paradox was trying to destroy Cooper' lineage like Clockwerk.
I think that Penelope found out that Clockwerk was behind Le Paradox, or at least, who killed Sly' parents, or Clockwerk knows about the Coopers, that Sly hasn't ever realized, the secret that the Coopers were trying to protect.
That would take us back to the sly cooper 1.
Would finally tell us who killed sly cooper' parents, what is the connection between the Clockwerk and the Coopers.
I think that, when Mugshot worked with Sly father, they became very good friends and that eventually Sly father told Mugshot the true about his lineage.
After Sly father died, felt the obligation of helping protecting that secret, when Mugshot (before he was hidden because the same persons who killed sly parents and were behind Le Paradox were trying to find himself because he also knew also about that secret) knew that Sly desappeared after this events and figured that the secret was in danger because of the things happened, Mugshot went to the people that were trying to find Sly (Bentley, Murray, Carmelita, ) and told them what he knew and so they start looking for the responsible.
Penelope:
I think that Penelope wasn't jealous of Sly. Penelope, at some time, discover something that lead her starting to came closer to the reason of this problems or who... The person behind all of this found out that Penelope was coming closer and so because of it, that person blackmailed her with the threat of killing Bentley and that the only way of save Bentley were build him a time machine so that he could destroy Sly lineage and so Sly would never exist and that way Bentley never meet Sly and Bentley would be save.
This is scenario of Sly Cooper 4... Instead of jealousy, it was a love crime.
When she fights with Sly as Black Knight, she could told the real reason but because of the passion with Bentley, she thinks that kill Sly is only way to Bentley be saved. Is because of that, that she said that they could be rich because if Bentley earlier went away with Penelope, there was a chance to save him because of the money that they could get with their inventions.
Sly Cooper 5 / Movie :
I think that the Sly Cooper 5 or the movie could be around this story in two worlds:
- 1º world:
Sly friends are trying find Sly and Mugshot appeared told them what he knew (like I said before) and together start trying find the responsible().
The story would be in the chapters. In each chapter, there will be two parts:
1ºpart: Mugshot tell the part of the story of one of the ancestors of Sly (in the previous game) which explains the ancestor relation with the secret, and in this part, the player controls the ancestor now alone explaining the relation of the ancestor with the secret.
2º part: This part consist in the Sly friends and Mugshot searching the first place looking for clues of the location of the responsible.
--In the next chapter, is explained the relation of another ancestor with the secret, and after Sly friends continue searching the responsible in another place.
--Meanwhile, in some of the firsts places that Sly friends are searching, Penelope appears and explains his story in Sly Cooper 4, apologizing for what happened, start helping and says that there is the possibility of Sly staying alive but in another time. And so as they try to find the Clockwerk, they try find out of saving Sly.
- 2º world:
Sly goes to a desert and tries to survive. At some time, he discover his ancestor of Egiptian Age, explains all he and his friends had been through and his ancestor explains the secret that their lineage are trying to protect and so became master of Sly and teaches Sly so when he goes back to the present, he could save his lineage secret.
In the last part, Sly friends can bring back Sly and together they go after the responsible ().
The Black Baron then the Black Knight, Penelope really likes dark alter egos. What's next, the Black Dragon?
Black Dragon hey why not!
Omg first you actually respond on a super old video, then you like my idea I must be dreaming. Ever since I saw I theory from you I was in love with your Sly content, I feel like I found people who want more just like me!
Spoilers for Sly 2:
Considering Neela looked exactly like Clockwerk whenever she transformed herself, it would make sense if Penelope was Clockwerk. Especially if she showed up around the same Era that Sly landed in. After all of the issues with Bentley and the Cooper gang, if she went back in time to destroy the lineage, she could. It would also explain how Clockwerk roboticized himself in a time period where that shouldn’t have been possible.
Penelope having that much hate to the point of wanting to turn into an owl? Hmm.....
I think the Easter egg is the clockwork minions...and they somehow where able to time travel just because we see under Clockworks armor in the first game. He is alot bigger. The Easter Eggs are more the size of the smaller ones...but yeah I do like the theory Penelope is Clockwork. She does hate Sly. That would be fun to see personally.
But why would Penelope decide to become a bird?
@@VtnVivi It was meant as two separate things the Easter egg and the Penelope thing. If she is idk why an owl idk. I like the other purple lady as well being Clockwork the whole time somehow via time travel but each of these is a mote point considering again we did see him under the armor and he was indeed an owl especially because he spoke actually owl...so he would be his own character. I think the more plausible theory you gave was Penelope working with Clockwork...or what if purple lady did idk.
I think the crazy theory you ended on - about her being Clockwerk himself - may be plausible. The reason I say this is because she was able to disguise herself quite well when she was the Black Baron - voice and body wise. It's possible to believe that her hatred for the Cooper gang extended beyond just Sly Cooper himself, more specifically onto both him and his ancestry. So perhaps, at one point or another, she learned of Clockwerk. Now, if she got stuck in the past, I think that would add credibility to this. Having heard about Clockwerk from the gang, she could have built Clockwerk and somehow managed to transfer her hatred into the mechanical bird. Now how that would work, I don't know, but it would explain the hatred for Sly's ancestry. Either way, it could be any other theory you've mentioned. But if they did something like this, it would explain a lot of things about Clockwerks connection to Sly's family. Not to mention it would be one hell of a plot twist.
Clockwerk's advanced machinery in Ancient Egypt might make one think hey it's Penelope, but to go too such lengths? Sacrificing your body, risk of dying? I don't see Penelope going through all that. Penelope simply wants recognition, money and fortune, something she believed Sly was stopping Bentley from reaching. As for her building Clockwerk, that one makes more sense.
maybe she worked with the police during sly 3 and she waited and waited and used Bentleys time machine when it was made (snuck into it) and went into sly 3 era and became the red baron to get close to the gang so she worked with police waited for Bentley to make a time machine went in it became close with the sly gang and then the story goes on...
I think you mean Black Baron, The Red Baron is the name of a pizza brand
Sorry, I was tired lol.
You were thinking about Pizza, lol
It's fine by the way