Behringer TD3-MO vs TD-3 // The definitive comparison
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- #td3mo #behringer #td3 #303 #devilfish
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0:00 intro
2:19 Filter
4:54 Tracking
7:17 Envelopes
10:42 Sweep speed & Accent Sweep
12:40 Muffler
13:40 Slide Time
14:42 Sub Osc
16:32 Final Thoughts
I was looking for info about the devil fish from behringer, and I was really happy to see that you had a video on it !
I totally love your review, they are how reviews and gear analysis should be
Thanks a lot !
Another great video comparison. After watching it several times you convinced me to go for the modded out version. Just got it a few weeks ago and it’s just got so much going for it. A perfect marriage Midi synced to my RD6. Thanks again for all of your time and efforts putting out these great videos
Best video on the subject. Thanks for taking the time to create the video. I am sure you've helped a lot of people like myself.
Nice comparison of feature differences, Explained 'understandably' and in detail. Well done!
50bux and a coupla pingers for a devilfish, thanks Uli x
uli... still waiting for that rd6-MO uli. ULIIII pls ULIIIIII
Just got mine yesterday. Goosebumps. That little box absolutely slaps.
Great looking and comprehensive video! keep them coming! Greetings from Argentina!
Great run through (& comparison), as always. Fantastic that Behringer made an affordable modded version....not sure if I really need its additional features....but ....for the small amount of money they are charging 🤔it’s very hard not get one just for some giggles😀 ....( 10:00 also enjoyed the guest cat ear appearance 😁)
I was looking for a comparison to decide which one to buy, but now I have more doubts than before 😁. Great review and comparison! Thanks.
I love it when a quirky analog squelching synth has that WASP color theme
Thank you! Now I'm convinced and can't wait to get my hands on the MO version!
Brilliant video. Thank you so much. Has inspired me to buy one. Just stumbled on you and have subbed. Helping newbies learn how to use the tools. Thank you
Thanks for the comparison Starsky.
I just bought my TD-3-MO! Excited to take it through the paces tomorrow!
The filter tracking response reminds me of the wonderful PCF feature in how it modulated the sequence on Propellerheads Rebirth software back in the day, except with a single parameter. Very nice.
I still own Rebirth running on a rebuilt Windows 98 PC!
Can I suggest that you augment this excellent video on the MO (the best I’ve watched and I’ve watched a bunch, to quell GAS) with a video demo’ing some of what you can do with the CV and patch bay routings? I think it would be fun for you and edifying for us!
Thanks!
Great detailed video on the features, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This video is incredible man! Thank you so much!
Nice, I'm just now seeing this, I've been excited about the MO since it's announcement!
Outstanding review! Super!
Sounds nice! Though the original is far from lame, the trick is in the building of patterns and usage of effects, and it’s nice that it forces you to go that way. Box vs box the extra 100€ for the MO sounds worth it though ! Very cool from behringer to bring this on the market
I just bought the straight td3 couldn't be bothered for the mo to come to Australia in another years time.... I'm going to have both
Great comparison! Thanks
This vid is the reason I ordered a td-mo today. Can't wait to pair it with my mb-33 retro
Spent a lot more time with the MO and I'm totally convinced by now! Once you get the hang of it you can make it bark like a Rottweiler: Amazing!!! But it doesn't fully replace the original, they are a lot more different than I thought. Sooner or later you need to get both!
It is basically as if Rubberduck from back in the day made a piece of hardware... gotta get my hands on one!
Thank you for your videos!
Thanks for the comparison!
Great video, thanks!
Good review, the original TD-3 has less scope for sound but also less scope to muck up the patch!
TD-3 MO expands on what's possible but is also more difficult to dial up the original sound within all those new parameters.
I say: GET BOTH !
EXACTLY!
I have an original, got the TD-3 to help with reducing overdubs (sounds a bit brighter as you mentioned so it's a nice companion) but now the MO is in pre-order limbo. 😩
@@zuur303 yeh world supply logistics is affecting everyone.
@@zuur303 Only 15 days wait now in Europe, I have mine on pre-order from Holland!
@@steveclifford6893 what shop? :)
excellent, thanks for making this. Seems it's still back ordered for a minute (modded out)
Awesome. I've been waiting 25 years (seriously) to afford this sound.
Why?? There have been plenty of alternatives in recent years including the original version of this
@@halcyondaystunes alternatives to the Devilfish? Other than modding something myself?
x2
As always, a sterling review, good show, old chap!
Super Video.! Made me decide to buy a TD3-MO
Good choice!
Great video, thanks for the comparison. Had to buy both .. obviously (:
After 9 months on preorder, it’s arriving in 1 hour!
Love it! i sold my TB and don't regret!
Thank you mr. Ramsey for the Video :D
Have a nice day.
Thanks for this .. certainly would go for the MO
I don't own one so I could be wrong, but I imagine taking the audio from the filter output jack is how you bypass the overdrive.
I was wondering about that. I noticed you left the comment 10 months ago, have you come across any more info on this?
I could be wrong but you can make the filter go further on the original by turning a screw on the motherboard.
Hellooooo everyone….
I’m new to all this,about 2 years in….
But I’m lucky enough to have bought the td3 aaaaaand the mo…
I use the mo with the accent button taped down,it’s Fcuking beautiful at creating a very melodic sound,the td3 is used for the barks and filth!!! Starsky,as ever,thank you for these videos,you are a legend!!!
Happy new year everyone!!!!
6:55 I have the original TD-3 and if you carefully balance the waveform switch between saw and square you can effectively turn the wave off. Brilliant for external drum processing through the filter and distortion! 😈
Original TD-3? Well the original is the Roland TB-303 from 1982... Just for clarification.
@@lassel1644 I meant the original TD-3 vs the MO version of which Starsky was showing off the "waveform off" feature.
But, since you mentioned it, yes I do have an original TB-303 from 1982 😀 (I didn't get mine until 1998, but I've had it since)
@@adub303 Ok thats very cool👍...i still got my Juno-60 ...
@@lassel1644 Awesome! Do you have a JSQ-60 or MD-8 or MSQ-700 for it?
I still have a fair condition Juno 6, but I mainly use the clock input to sync (or syncopate) the arpeggiator. Still trying to figure out how to get my Aira EFX to "talk" to the VCF control/expression jack ever since learning that the ins and outs are DC-coupled CV 😈
@@adub303 I had the JSQ-60 before this vintage mania started like in 2003. Today my Juno is mostly in the closet. I sold my MonoPoly in the beginning of vintage mania. I have the Modx, Kross2 and Fa06 which is my main gear rig. I am not so technical so i cant help you with your issues...
The M-O version will be the most versatile version of any derivative of the original 303, I'm thinking it will be great in a few deep house numbers, because it drops, whereas the original can sound way too spiky and always sits outside the mix , Oh, chill out has well , chill step , chilli and chips , you get the picture !
Both sounds amazing. 😍
Heard "rip it up" by orange juice in there 😎👌 sounds great but I got a volca bass.. Don't need any more squelchy bass lol. Great comparison starsky 😎👍
thanx for doing this one
I actually have the MO and love it.
I think the original is very cool as well. I have a couple of TB 303 clones by Roland.
I’m probably gonna get a TD 3 original as well.
I think all of them have unique features and sounds.
Awesome comparison!
As usual your videos are awesome !
Thank you 🙏🏻
Can you use it to replace a bass guitar?
I guess
I mean you can use it as a bass synth without the throaty filter FX.
Will I be able to layer both of them? If I can, which model is recommended as the main bassline?
I want this MO. No excuses.
I love the td3 sound already
But this does sound warmer
Think I’ll be getting one soon lol
🙏❤️
I just ordered one of each. I've been wanting to get two 303's, and use them together, so I decided to one of each.
There is no other way…. That’s what I did!
Very great video
Thanks for this. I was considering the MO over the basic TD3 but I think the basic TD3 is the ticket for me. I just wish Behringer would release an RD-6-MO, aka the "608".
Yes this . World love a 608 . :-)
Mo seems nice, but it's not a 303
I got the td3, love it . I do mod it with my crave, which works brilliantly
@@johnumm2472 how?
@@UrsHerrmann Well, simplest is to take the CV gate out of the TD-3 and slave the crave to it, then ...... it's up to you, the TD-3 sequencer is more musical than the crave's, the craves 2nd oscillator and filter + LFO give the TD3 lines an amazing ravey quality. I love them together.
Word, I haven't patch my modded one into the Neutron yet (baby steps) but I already know it's gonna be bonkers
There's really no bypass of the overdrive circuit Behringer? Thank you for clarifying this. I guess you have to buy a TD3 and TD3-MO.
Is your left arm broken? Also, this is the best demo for the td3 mo!
Is it possible to run external audio through the filter and disable the existing oscillator? Certainly looks like it but you couldn't do that via the original.
My MO has finally shipped today from the US. It can join my two silver TD3 and make a happy acid family.
I saw another comparison which showed how us can use the TD3 for more classic basslines and MO for richer, more diverse bassy sounds. So they can work well together
Absolutely. They are a great pair.
Been on preorder for months, anyone got any news on supply? UK? I’m gagging to get the damn thing
The TB-303 is supposed to have the same low pass filter as the System 100 (1975) and SH5. But it sounds much less overdriven to me. Does the TB/TD have a diode ladder filter? 🤓
I've had a look at the original TB-303 schematics, and if my memory isn't too rusty, the VCF in the TB-303 was indeed a Diode-Ladder filter, but, the diodes in the filter were actually transistors connected-up as diodes with the transistor's base connected to it's collector, so, you could easily substitute small-signal diodes like the 1N4148 for each transistor and the circuit would still work the same, assuming you were interested in building the TB-303 VCF as a stand-alone synth module.
Thanks a lot for this comparison!
Some months ago, I was about to get a TD-3 but then there were rumours about a "Modded Out" version... so I was holding back.
Once MO was officially announced, I was 100% convinced that this one was the ine to go for.
Your video left me a bit "perplexed"... cause while you certainly CAN do more with the MO version (if you know how to do it), it also looks much harder to program.
The MO looks (much) nicer though!
From what I understood, it is not possible to make the MO version sound exactly ike the regular TD-3, right?? 🤔 So the verdict is, we need both...?! 😄
Your verdict is correct haha I'll tell you this too, the MO feels MUCH nicer quality than the first, the first is like, super junky feeling, extremely lightweight and plastic.
The MO seems to be at least twice the quality, physically speaking, that really surprised me!
thank *YOU*
Great review. But why can NEITHER unit (or any clone) get that "Josh Wink" 303 sound from his song "Higher State of Consciousness?"
It’ll have have been distorted by a particular unit/amp/speaker combo then through a desk, possibly distorted again via the preamps (big thing with Mackies at the time), compressed in the mix then compressed again at mastering. Trying to get an EXACT match is virtually impossible.
@@StarskyCarr This guy NAILED the sound. But by shifting the phase on a vst synth. ua-cam.com/video/88L37lIXZIU/v-deo.html
@@ThinkerThunker all he's done there is reduce the pulse width on the vst a fraction to make it more 303 ish - the vst he chose created a perfect square, like most - the hardware emulations already do this. He just realised the 303 didn't produce a perfect square by looking at the schematics. He could've just listened to it - its obvious. A square and a pulse sound much different- a pulse is a lot buzzier, containing more even harmonics. He doesn't shift the phase .. he did try using 2 but went back to a single track. But he has used some distortion units as well - which like I say is hugely important - the hardware units don't have exactly the same distortion as what he's using or what Josh Wink used. And I wouldn't say his was identical either tbh. But he does a good job of getting a 303 style tone from a non-303 vst.
@@StarskyCarr Yeah, I've tried different distortion and effects chains, but no still no luck. At this point it's just a puzzle I'm trying to solve. Thanks for the info SC, I really appreciate it. You're one of the few who's opinion I really respect on all this.
Awesome!
Very good review. Just wondered if the build quality is any better than the original? I have the first TD 3 and it's very light and plastickey.
It's about the same tbh. The Behringers may even feel a little lighter (as I'm assuming the components are smaller these days)
@@StarskyCarr Thank you
Having owned an OG TB-303 I find the build quality of the TD's to be better and sturdier than the OG 303s.
Are all original patterns in c major?
Can the TD3 MO still sound like the original?? I really liked the bit at 6:00
I can’t find these for sale anywhere, where can one procure?
i'm about to get my first analogue synthesizer, and I've seen a deal with two td3's and an rd6 for 250£, and a single td3-mo for 200£, and i cant make my mind.. can anyone give some advice?
Hey Starsky! Since you try out so many devices I thought of asking you. Have you experienced any 303 clone that does not loose bass completely when engaging the Resonance? Or at least one that stays "thicker" throughout ? That's one thing that always turned me off with the 303
No, thats what the 303 does, so the replicas all try their best to copy it. Have you checked out the KORG Volca NuBass.. I can't remember precisely as I've not used it for ages but it might be more what you're looking for (but maybe not). ua-cam.com/video/nf8DvL3ZmRg/v-deo.html
@@StarskyCarr i had the nubass for a very brief time but send it back . I found it a bit too small to work with in the long run and the sound was a bit lo fi from what I remember. The MO solves the „Reso thinning the bass bass“ with the sub Osc but after watching their recent years policy I decided to never buy a product off them again cause they overdid it. Ok thank you for the info Starsky! Cheers
Expect to wait indefinitely for products from Behringer. Still waiting for an order I placed way back in Jan. 2021.
They have pushed out the estimated delivery date 4 times now. I actually doubt it will ever get shipped.
I waited over 6 months for the 2600... supply chains and lack of chips I think aren't helping now as well
Yes, it is not Behringer fault for the chip shortage. I got my Cat and Wasp eventually.
Hey, around 13:00 the muffler is not to muffle the sound, it's a post VCA clipping switch
Thanks... I wondered exactly what it was doing! :)
@@StarskyCarr this is if Behringer blindly copied the devil fish design. But you are right, it does kind of muffle the sound, I never thought of it that way ^^
Thanks fort the review :)
I'm just surprised no one talks about the changes in the overdrive which is for me part of the core of the 303, i don't know which one to buy first cause i really like the controls and cv of the MO but the overdrive has always felt more punchy in the OG version, especially with that tone parameter and the on of switch which offers versatility
On/off*
Did they ever release this? Seems impossible to buy until sometime next march?
Yes I’m the U.K. it’s in loads of stores… has been for a while….. just looked and everywhere has now sold out 🤷♂️
The spec for the MO lists 'audio input for external sound sources (3.5mm jack);' but I can't see any evidence of this in manual or on device??
If you look at the pictures there’s 3 filter in jacks. Audio, FM and CV. I guess it’s the one labelled FILTER IN. But I’ve not tried it.
@@StarskyCarr my next question would be is it audio thru or can the audio be manipulated in some way (similar to the way an Electribe EMX1 would use the audio in, although I appreciate that the EMX is more applying FX to the audio and in the TD3 the knobs are more to do with tweaking the analogue signal)
You know man, you are the Super Best the Best Reviewer at all Century 💪🌎. It is really true. I guess, no I am sure that many of your subscribers will agree with me. Keep going on it! 💪👍
Hey Guys, I'm new to this, can I use this with a DJ controller and use this as adding live FXs while recording the set ? Thanks
Like seriously im asking the same question
Perhaps there is too much tweakability on the MO. You can easily make a sequence unrecognizable or abrasive, especially with the soft attack and portamento knobs. On the original, you can't really go wrong no matter what knobs you tweak!
That's essentially why I made this video... trying to make it more accessible rather than it being a load of new knobs and switches to get random stuff. At least if someone can understand what's going on they can make the most of it. Before I looked into it the whole thing was a mystery!
I desperately wanted to write a review on Thomann saying just that! But not allowed…😢
I already had the TD3, but I could imagine someone going directly for the MO, being disappointed.
I still think it’s weird that the cutoff can be too low for the envelope.
I want them both :)
Just out of interest, if you could only have one in your studio, would you rather have the TD-3-MO or the Volca Nubass?
I ask because I watched your TD-3 and Volca Nubass review also.
I’m going to get one of them just can’t decide which. The Nubass has held it’s value at £129, but I’ve found the TD-3-MO for as little as £159 …so not much in it.
If battery power and size isn’t important I think the MO! But the Korg does have a certain charm.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks
Are they exactly the same size? Wondering if covers or stands work for both
They look identical in dimensions.
my only concern is that it has more knobs, more sound design abilities, but from that video I can hear a lot of squeaky sounds, dunno if that's because the parameters were set up that way or it's generally more 'squeaky sounding' instrument (more orthodox one trick pony?:)
It’s because I’m taking it to the edges… to emphasise the differences. You can keep it less squeaky :)
Question - how does it compare to an original 303 with the DevilFish mod?
Who knows!! I’ve looked at the manual and it seems to be doing the same - whether it sounds the same is a mystery 😂 it has the same functions as the DevilFish with the addition of the sub on the Behringer.
The functions are the same but the sound can be very different. My conclusion from seeing the video below is that 50% sounds almost spot on, and 50% sounds like a completely different instrument. So you can get some very similar sounds out of it and it sounds really good, but it's definitely not the same.
Video comparing the TD3 mod vs 303 Devilfish mod:
ua-cam.com/video/MteuRJQDyFI/v-deo.html
Where can I buy the MO version please ?
Hmm.... The og seems a lot more controlled and pleasant sounding to me tbh. The risk of "outtweaking" the sound and ending up with nothing (but shrill sounding chirps that hurt your ears) is a lot higher in the mo and in a live situation I would prefer the simplicity of the og. Maybe I need a little more time with it but so far I'm not convinced. I thought it was possible to simply take all the extra stuff out of the signal path and have the og sound and then decide what to add to it. The fact that the overdrive is constantly part of the signal and almost acts like a level knob is quite confusing and a lot less flexible than I had imagined. Even if I keep the mo, the og TD-3 is going nowhere, that's for sure...
I have both and would definitely recommend starting with the TD3. I had no prior experience with a 303 and it was instant paydirt, whereas I initially would have to work more for something usable on the MO.
Nice review 👌
Nice watch 👍
Better than a table full of cacti 😅
I returned the MO and got myself a normal TD-3. It just sounds better in a musical context because it is super easy to use. But I miss the Overdrive of the bigger brother!
I agree with you on the sounds, and what you miss in the Overdrive and be added in the DAW. It's really not a loss and for the price of the original, it's hard not to love it
A nice pedal can fix that😊
@@bombjelly5795 true that. I got myself a compression limiter pedal and it sounds awesome when turning it all the way up
The tb03 has OD
@@neonpop80 it has distortion not overdrive
Does anyone know how to program slides when using the digitakt as midi sequencer??? 🤔
don't have a TD-3 (yet) but I'm guessing having notes overlap ? (make first note length longer). A cool trick I use all the time is having my sequence divided on different midi tracks on the digitakt, can add/mute those components (ie: have a minor 3rd on track 2, major 3rd on track 3, and short funky fills on track 4). Same trick to get polymeters, which is super handy for acid.
Does the red accent button stay in on it own when pushed or do you have to hold it in ?
You need to hold it. But it's no problem to alter a pattern so that all notes are accented if that's what you want it to sound like.
@@LousyFacelift Is the same true for the sub-bass button…do you have to hold it as well or does that one latch?
@@GearGuy That one latches.
9:58 KITTY!!!!!! :D
Sorry one last thing: dude do you know if we can polychain the MO to our regular TD3? I mean, I'd think so right? Really want some confirmation tho lol did you try that at all?
Hah no idea I'm afraid. I'm not a polychain type of guy :) I don't think I've ever done it with anything tbh.
@@StarskyCarr me either actually except for this, because ima end up with two haha I was thinking the MO for the lows and use the original behringer one for higher frequencies 🤔
I'll tell you what, in Feburary when I get mine I'll let you know for conversation sake 😉👊
@@StarskyCarr so actually coming back to this, not sure if you'll see it but: man the MO goes so hard I'm not even looking at my original TD3 haha the MO is supposed to stand for Modded Out but really it's just a MOnster 😂
So raw.
Good day mate. How is New Zealand ?
I imagine its rather nice this time of year :)
I do really like my TD-3, but do wish I'd held back a little for a couple of MO's. However, never say never!
They suit my 'thing' much more and don't need further external processing (which I don't mind as I love farting around to find out what it can or can't anyhow.. but... well... y'knowwwww... may as well cut to the chase and get the MO s I KNOW exactly what I want from it before I even get it.
For the time being, what TD-3 lacks, my TB-3 makes up for underneath much of the time. All sounds good.
Even though there's all these extra functions on the Mo version, I don't really care for the sound it adds to the palette. That overdrive don't really do it for me for once, and you can't even turn it off 😅
It’s not for everyone.. (obvs 😀) and yeah.. there’s no escaping the overdrive.
@@StarskyCarr take from filter out
Same , hate overdrive on 303. Heresy!
@@mrkeeny I don't hate overdrive on 303 though 😆
@@nym053 we can’t be friends then
What is the difference between the MO-AM and MO-SR td3's???
The colour.
This confirms my growing suspicion that my Unit is weirdly defective. The envelope can’t move the filter enough, once cutoff is at 9 o’clock, so nothing’s audible, and the keytracking simply cuts out the lowest notes(??).
Ha! I spoke to soon. On rewatching, now I get the “filter tracking - it is the opposite of what I’m used to.
Great video! Really shows that Behringer should have included a proper manual.
I want both!
I got both! ;)
@@StarskyCarr dude I got both the next day!! Haha I got two tb3 and one modified cuz I’m greedy. Gonna be a fun week! I believe they’re going to discontinue the tb3s here soon. The silver and black ones are running out so get another while you can if you want!
Is this the same as a DevilFish 303 classic mod?
Yes, I think it's almost identical. Just one addition as far as I can recall - although I can't remember what it was. Maybe the sub osc level but don't quote me on that ;)
Nice intro 👌🏻
Thanks… did you see my Facebook posts where I was asking for feedback? Trying out a bit of better branding and saving time from making different intros for every video.
sounds like i need both
Of course!