Do audio cables matter? | Galen Gareis formerly of Belden Wire
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Former Belden Wire Designer Galen Gareis explains how cables need to meet certain standards and the design parameters around them. He also speaks about the actual science and the subjective side within hifi audio.
After many years of a business relationship with Blue Jeans Cable, he now leads the ICONOCLAST cable line.
www.iconoclast...
www.bluejeansca...
www.belden.com
#beldenwire
#cables
#hifi
#1313A
#iconoclast
#science
#subjective
#objective
I have a system that system that is in the $30,000.00 plus range and I was using Anti cables bi wired speaker cables. Iconoclast offered a free 30 day trial of their cables and I tried them. I ordered a set of bi wired cables including series I for low frequencies and series II for the hi frequencies. It was like a component level improvment with the Iconoclast cables. Of course I bought them! I was considering upgrading my Vandersteen Treo CT speakers but with Iconoclast cables I was compleatly satisfied. I would recommend trying a 30 day trial if you have a good system and can afford the cables.
WoW,
great nitty gritty real world conversation.
Jason, I got a question. Since you seem a bit obsessed with objective, are you aware that when amp or speaker leave test bench and you place them in your room, you step in to subjective world … a real world? When you hook them to your other components, place speakers In your way , connect to your electricity and add to that specific characteristic of room, well all this will change the way they sound . Synergy with that specific amp and specific speaker will influence sound to. Those things will change sound more than difference showed in measuring between egg. two components. I hope you are aware of that. And thank you for that interview, it should be sent to measurement junkies who simply measure wrong things.
Excellent stuff, and information why cables make difference. My experience with cables in stereo system shows difference in soundstage, which is aligned whit explanation in video (change signal timing) . That also shows how irrelevant is when ASR “guru” measure Thd and noise in cables as they are passive components, which proves nothing. Jason, as always run podcast in political manner. Why repeating question , but this is subjective? When cable is changed 10 times, and 10 times I spot which one is connected it is objective proof that they are different. Subjective is just which one I like more, but that don’t change the fact that sound is different.
Thanks for watching John!
Outstanding interview. I always learn something when Galen discusses the cables topic.
Hands down, the absolute best "sounding" speaker cables and interconnects available, at "any" price. Iconoclast provides sound quality improvements to any audio system on the level of a "major" component or speaker upgrade and a fraction of the cost. None of the snake oil or cables with bling normally associated with high-end audio. Absolutely no risk in trying these cables. Highly recommended!
My preferred rca interconnect for decades was the Kimber PBJ. I’ve also used Blue Jeans LC-1 for when I needed a shielded cables. When I tried the BAV cables I immediately heard a difference. I think Galen’s focus on time coherence hits the nail on the head. The BAV cables seemed faster, more dynamic, and better focused imaging and sound staging. I have yet to try the Iconoclast cables but I am interested in trying the speaker cables and comparing them to my Kimber 4TC.
This is a fabulous podcast with great information. I am a long time Blue Jeans cable user (including ethernet cables).
I enjoy hearing a techy bring up the importance of time and phase-coherence issues as a determining factor in audio quality and design. Our ears are that sensitive.
Fantastic interview!
Much appreciated!
Really interesting and informative interview. Surprisingly, the Iconoclast Cables are expensive, but they don't seem outrageously expensive for what you get. If I did ever purchase a $10.000 + system, I would be looking for something like these. Save on the interconnects...
Thank you so very much for this interview with Galen. I have just learned so much and believe every word of it. I'm currently researching what cable to use for my first set of "high end" speaker cables and my search IS OVER! However, due to having to remortgage my home to buy Iconoclast cable; that is not what I'm going to buy. The Belden 1309A is expensive enough.
Belden 1309A @ little over $1/m - how on earth is that expensive ? Or am I not getting a joke ?
@@BogdanWeiss Sorry my income is low. Here my cost for 1309A is $2.50/foot for 14 AWG. I wish I could get real Belden cable for $1.00/meter. That's a bargain. A 10 foot Iconoclast assembled cable is over $800.
@@welderfixer I can tell you that the first cable that Tara Labs made ( they were initially known as space&time ) was 1mm square ( cross sectional area ) solid core building wire ( 2 wires per conductor ) - it was the same cable that was used for wiring lights in millions of homes across Australia - I’ve used multiple runs of ethernet cable with good results - salvaged when 100Mb wiring was replaced with Cat 6 or 7 - so I was recycling something that was destined for landfill - so much BS around “HiFi” cabling.....it’s nausiating
@@BogdanWeiss Nauseating is fact. I spent 2 hours braiding one 2.5 meter DIY cable only to find that I am not overly happy with the LCR meter tests. Simple two conductor "zip" cord measures as good. So, no more fancy crap for me. I like the Cat 6 network cable idea. It will more than handle the job. Thanks.
@@welderfixer You’ve learned something about cable geometry & impedance, consider it a cheap lesson - get connected with a local HiFi club, those guys are on a roller coaster upgrade path & you can borrow stuff for evaluation - your room & loudspeakers are where you can make the biggest improvements & you need to invest in education in order to improve your signal to noise ratio - none of the HiFi dealer that I ever met knew anything about acoustics & even in “professional” recording facilities there are a lot of overdamped rooms, as people conflate acoustical treatment with some “off the shelf” crap, because companies who sell acoustical treatment can not scale a custom solution. So they lie & the circle of confusion is closed.
I know the host has raised the assertion that there is a threshold, after which cable differences will not matter (in an absolute sense)....especially for USB cables. I.e. there are DACs that obviate the benefit for "better" USB cables. But, Galen does not seem to agree with that sentiment; he just agrees that a well-designed DAC is a *starting point*, prior to any cable selections.
Galen is a gentleman, he also doesn't push all the snake oil mumble jumbo nonsense that some of those crazy yuppie cable companies do. He is a rarity in the world of Hifi, thanks for interviewing him.
Thanks, good interview. What is not clear to me is how his listening tests work. We know that in sighted tests luxury cables often sound better, lots better. We know that if you buy into the technology they sound better still. I assume if you yourself designed the technology, you would not be an unbiased listener. Has Galen done any blind testing that proves his cables sound better? Alternately, can you measure the output of 2 speakers that shows the change in phase he describes? It is apparent there was a lot of measurement done in developing these cables, was their any measurement or blind listening done that proves this impacts what comes out of speakers?
Have you ever listened to different cables? Blind or not?
I think measuring what comes out of the speakers is a good way to do it. That way you are measuring the whole system as it is. I agree with Galen's point that everything works together. I also agree that phase has a huge effect on imaging, but this is most important if the phase is not tracking well between left and right channels. My own experience with rather large phase shifts (compared to what cables cause) between different frequencies is that they don't effect imaging nearly as much. So long as the phase at each frequency between left and right is consistent, the imaging is good, at least to my ears. I learned this when trying to use different dacs on the left and right channels. The soundstage deteriorated. I couldn't get the dacs synced well enough. If I used the same stereo dac for the tweeters and a different stereo dac for the mids, and a 3rd for the woofers, that did not have an adverse effect on imaging, even though the time sync was no better. Frequency response can have a huge effect on perception of the soundstage, so if that changes much I can get a very different impression of size and depth.
@@weizenobstmusli8232 I don't know if ggroch ever did, but I have done blind and sighted testing of cables. I bought some pure silver interconnects and was quite certain I heard a very noticeable difference during sighted testing. I wasn't sure if I liked it better, but it was intriguing. When I tested blind, I was shocked that I could hear no difference what so ever. Same exact setup, just turning the rotary selector quickly without looking so I didn't know for sure which cable I was listening to when I stopped turning it. After that, I couldn't hear the difference sighted either. That was totally mind blowing.
I've tried a hand full of different cables and good 10 or 12 awg ofc zip cable seems to be where I tap out. Maybe others have different experiences I don't know but my ears just don't really notice. I will also never have a system that costs as much as a new car or house and maybe that's what it takes. 🤷
Thanks for the comment!
Go figure, you and I watching the seem video at the same time. hahaha Great minds think alike. See you over at Randy's.
I like earing serious scientist talking about this subject.
Is that an M2 behind you?
Sure is
🙏🏽 🙏🏽 🙏🏽
There's absolutely NO excuse for someone with Galen's experience level AND electrical knowledge to be unaware of the placebo and expectation biases. And his unstated suggestion that since he works for the 'supplying' company he then has no money in the game is, of course, nonsense. Competent *audio* cables all are effectively perfect for passing audio frequencies. They all sound the same. ABX exists to absolutely provide unbiased, verifiable results, and 'we' use it for that reason.
I disagree. There are two reasons. Money and Ego, he has a big Ego and wants to turn that into money. Unfortunately he appears to know diddly squat about electronics at any depth and so makes all kinds of claims that he cannot back up in any practical terms as it applies to audio. Essentially a charlatan.
Have you ever listened to different cables on a good system yourself?
Any cable that cost more that 10$ a foot is a snake oil scam! I use Mogami cables. They are cheep and an overkill to ANY system!