Well there certainly are advantages to a quicker bike. My first ride alone, I had a schizophrenic older gentleman accuse me of doing 85 in a 35. I was not. He tailed me inches away from my rear tire. I could have easily downshifted and created distance. It’s always nice to know I have the option of distance.
100% acceleration can save you from some situations. But ya don't need a litre bike to accelerate quickly. A 500cc bike can easily have 0-60mph in the 4 second range.
3:40 I currently reside in the Netherlands. During the closed course part of the exam there is an "emergency braking" exercise. The goal is to drive 50 until the cones and then to brake as hard as possible. The track distance for the breaking is 17 meters, but that does not mean that you're allowed to use all of it. In my experience, Honda CBF600 breaks (with ABS engagement) easily within 6-8 meters. Anyone's telling that bike sliding on asphalt is safer or stops faster than just powerful breaking has clearly never tried to brake...
@@onabikewithadrone In the DPRB they call it module 1 (or mod 1). There's a bunch of other stuff to do as well, but the emergency stop is on that list.
As a former instructor for motorcycles and cars in the Netherlands i have to compliment you for this video, accurate and well explained 👍. I can't understand why so many rich/western countries don't see the need for proper driving/riding education and examn for motorcycles and cars, it would save many lives and even more injuries.
I've been riding 6 months, I didn't believe all of those...but took me a while to get over my fear of the front brake. Your practice Videos really helped with that.
Well, as i new rider, what i realised, that you actualy cant brake [like emrgency braking] while mid corner, but still you can slow down, or kind of fast slow down, which is still slower then a car who can slam the brake with abs mid corner. Also thing that is hard is when you stop your bike mid corner it cant be leaned because its gooing to fall, and if you make it streight you will start gooing in direction off track. I guess you can practice this to make it all right, but it is still a hard and risky manuver. So what you can do is to predict and avoid situations that may put you in that kind of situation.
@@goranmajnaric556 "when you stop your bike mid corner it cant be leaned because its gooing to fall" When practicing braking in the corner, I find that I actually have to make an effort to keep the bike leaned while applying brakes to maintain my curveradius. It wants to straighten up (which is a reason why snapgrabbing the brakes is bad, too fast a standup sends you too far upright with momentum). The fallover point only really matters once you're at like 0-2mph (aka fully stopped) which is why you see Mr MotoControl straighten up right at the end of his cornerturn exercise. Before complete stop, falling over is much less of a concern (separate from losing traction, ofc). And, obviously, there are ways to lean too much for the speed you've gotten (being full lean at 3mph probably isn't terribly stable, practice develops this sense of toofarlean). Complex forces from many force inputs. Requires practice. Truly, during the turningbrake motion, you're trying to skirt the edge of notslipping fought between the brakestopping friction and your turning friction. The same sort of fight talked about during warnings of "don't increase lean angle while accelerating" only, it's reverseforce for one aspect. Your final point about prediction and awareness is spot on though! Why climb out of a metaphorical hole you could have just avoided falling into?
In the last piece F9 was talking about how armour is essentially useless when it comes to preventing fractures. His reasoning is that to get certified a piece of armour should allow no more than 16kN of force through, but a fracture requires at least 4kN. So in this regard armour is useless. Instead, he advocates for airbags, which in contrast are much more safer, or at least some special type of armour that offers more protection. I get it you might be referring to the phenomenon of people saying gear is useless, but just to clarify that wasn't at all Ryan's position there. Anyways, fantastic video as always!
Incredibly important context yea, pretty lame that he left it out. But it gets engagement in the comments if you criticise a big name like Fortnine i guess, that's probably why he did it. Guy that tells you to lay down your bike and ride it like a surfboard on the other hand, now that's bad advice in pretty much any situation.
@@cosmodewit Thats Scotty Kilmer, and while I can't stand his video's and as such have not seen that one (probably one of the many I have ignored as they fill up my suggested viewing) I suspect from the tone of his voice he is being facetious. But yes the Ryan Fortnine was way out of context.
Ryan's position isn't "armor isn't going to protect you in big hits, but you should still wear it for the small stuff", it's "armor isn't going to protect you in big hits, so I don't bother with any". I like Fortnine, but this video hardly takes him out of context.
I crossed half of South America on a humble Suzuki GN-125. On most regular highways, it handles the necessary speed for driving, and even on expressways, with caution, it’s possible to ride it.
@@peterv3429 I agree, but would like to add one detail. How long the coffee break needs to be depends on how hard it is raining. Gentle rain takes longer to wash off the slippery slime off the road. I live in the area of Seattle Washington USA. Dry spells are often ended with rain that is so gentle it is more like mist. It can take days for that gentle rain to wash the slime off the road. At the opposite end of the range, a hard down pour can clean a road in just 15 minutes.
Cars etc don't drop oil and fuel like you might think, at least in Europe anyway, as the annual vehicle checks include any fluid leaks. It's actually more dust from tyres and brakes. The rain lifts the particles and sort of lubricate the surface. You should however, be mindful of places like bus stops, where dropped diesel can occur.
@@750triton Try wandering through a Walmart parking lot when it’s empty and look at the parking spaces for an idea of how much oil and other fluids are leaking from cars on the road. (Most places in the USA do not have a safety inspection that checks for leaking fluids…)
Many riders don't have proper training or motorcycle endorsement. When I took my training class, there were several students who had been riding for a while and decided to finally do it legally. Also, many riders and car drivers get complacent and have been riding long enough so they forget much of it.
I can't express just how much I appreciate this compilation. And you nailed it with "Dorel" who got himself a UA-cam channel and is now spreading misinformation with authority. Keep it up ✌️
@@evilkababcars have just two more wheels but 5x if not more than the mass of a motorcycle. And keep their aerodynamic profile all along. A biker even on a race bike can add a lot of drag and hence deceleration just putting their torso upright before a corner or when in need to stop
@@cochazza Problem of fast deceleration on motorcycle isn't a mass, but height of mass centre. You break hard and do stoppie. Car doesn't have that problem
Andrei is the very best instructor and giver of helpful real world advice for motorcycle riders on UA-cam. All delivered with his upbeat, to the point and non-condescending attitude. Thank you Andrei!
10:19 this breaking in mid corner thing is, again, pretty much the same on a motorcycle as it is in a car. You have a certain amount of tire traction budget. When in a straight path, pretty much 100% of that budget is available for braking. When you are cornering, you are already using some of that budget for cornering. The more budget you spend on cornering, the less there is available for braking. Exceed that budget and the tires will lose traction and begin to skid. It happens with cars and bikes alike.
I believe that a level of fear comes with learning to ride or drive the first few times. It’s like the first time our parents or whoever first took off the training wheels of our bicycles when we were kids and tried to get us to ride on our own. We were shaky at the beginning but once the fear began to dissipate and we learned to balance and control, we gained confidence, and with “practice” and guidance (teaching), we got better. As adults we have learned that the only thing to fear is fear itself. Constant learning and practicing (the right way of course) will help to mitigate the fear in my opinion. This video is spot on as it pertains to the many myths and misinformation that are circulating about motorcycling. Awesome! 👏 😎🇺🇸✌️👍
I just wanna share something. A have a friend who is a whiz when it comes to fixing motorcycles. This friend's dad was a former motorcycle racer (he used to compete in motocross and short circuit races in south east asia). One time, when I let him try my new Suzuki (I was also quite new to the motorcycle world at that time), he praised how agile the bike was but had a soft brake. After asking him for details about it, he only kept speaking about the rear brake. Perplexed, I asked him, "how about the front, was it soft too?" He gave me a raised eyebrow and said, "You never use the front brake, iho." This man competed in professional racing for around 30 years so far be it from me to argue to his face that the advice sounded sketchy (keep in mind I was a newbie back then). Now ten years later, it was the only advice I never followed. To add to that, my personal experiences with using the front brake has saved me from many near misses. I love my front brakes!
Most (sometimes all, as in the case of the dude doing a stoppy) of your braking is done with the front tire...on the street. Off road is just the opposite.
- I rode a 14hp bike for 3 years, I was slower that cars on highways but it never was a huge problem and I never had a crash because of it, I just needed lots of time to pass trucks or slow cars. - I never had ABS on my bikes and braking hard with the front brake in a straight line or braking gently mid-corner never caused me to crash, one just has to be progressive with one's braking. - Regarding riding during rain, I'd say roundabouts are pretty tricky too so be wary of them. And change your tires if they're at their limit, on dry days it's not that big of a deal but it is when it's wet.
When I don't wear full gear for whatever reason I often kick or bump my knee on something on the bike. It hurts like hell and I've no idea why anyone would want to do that (+ get hit by debris or insects) without a really solid reason. I love my motorcycle pants, super comfy and protective for several activities.
Ryan didn't ditch armor without replacing it. He switched to worn airbag systems. It was a misleading clip without that full context. I'm not personally sold on switching, but the airbag systems certainly have a fantastic layer of protection.
15:29 Be fair though. I remember this video. He wasn't saying "don't use gear". He was saying "here are the places where it matters, based on injury stats and here's where it's debatable to have protection. I'm an ATGATT guy but I don't have every inch of my body covered in kevlar. There are places statistically where one is more likely to be struck or scrape and I keep those portions protected.....as I'm sure you do too.
Ah... If it ain't our old favourite - Scotty Kilmer!!! Note to all riders, new & old: DO NOT bet your life on an action/skill you cannot practice in advance! Yes, this includes riding a sliding bike "like a surf board".
Absolutely........ These are things that do occur but purely by accident as you're sliding along beside the bike. It's like seeing the racing bikers skid on a bend, roll off and run to catch their motorbike as it drifts along the track all by itself!
@@fabianmckenna8197 Looks really cool when the '80s stuntman does it, but if your first practice attempt is what's meant to save your life, you're in big trouble
I mean, I had assumed that was meant to be sarcastic. If someone else didnt realise that and stupidly tried it, well their the onw who have tro live (or not) with the consequences
I was with the "here we go again, laying down a bike" until he said "then you jump on it and ride it like a surfboard," sounds like he had his tongue firmly in his cheek with that comment, maybe if I saw the entire video instead of a clip I might be able to judge if he was serious or not.
Idiotic: you get pulled over, police checks if the db killer is installed, or the markings if they feels like, and your getting a big fine, the prohibition to use the bike until restored. And I thanks the policemen doing that, it saves me hours of sleep!
@davidebacchi9030 police in the uk your joking right got time to pull a loud bike, they so short staffed no time for real criminals definitely no time for a loud 125, they don't care 🤣
My dad taught me one thing which I always remember and tell everyone else “remember you are the just skilled driver on the road everyone else is not so be aware of your surroundings and keep the distance from everyone” that’s why I have never gotten into any accident and been driving for over 24 years.
In my country, when it's raining the traction is zero! I m not talking about braking alone, sometimes you just can't go off the lights. I had my back wheel locked for 5 to ten metres only by closing the throttle in wet
1:20 you have got to be kidding me. I've always known there was something about him I didn't like. I think I caught 15 seconds of one of his videos, and realized that it wasn't for me. I am horrorified at how he can spread disinformation like that, AND that people eat it up. Idiocracy is coming true!
I discovered this when I moved to Asia. It's amazing what you can do in the 15-20 hp range. I was carving up mountain roads and loving it. You won't win any drag races but if you're a skilled rider you can keep momentum up through corners and keep a good pace going.
Just some small corrections about your explanation on car vs. motorcycle tire traction. First, the static coefficient of friction is not the same for car vs. motorcycle tires. Second, the static coefficient of friction changes as contact pressure changes. Third, your explanation assumes that the total normal force is the same for both vehicles but motorcycles are so much lighter that their normal force is lower than a car’s.
I don't ride motorbikes any more but I love your videos. The delivery of the information is amazing. They also turned out a big success for 9yo. We are having a good laugh while learning and then practicing, whatever is applicable, on his bicycle.
I have a suggestion for new riders I did myself. I found that behind many big businesses like grocery stores, walmarts, target, or huge connected shopping areas behind them is a decent size area where you can practice riding. On my day off I carefully rode in such an area moving out any decent size objects and swept (carried in the car) patches of sand, nails, etc then came back with the bike to practice to get an idea how it accelerates, stops, and lean each direction (for example my sym hd200 I can lean more on a right turn than left due to the center stand scraping). My advice for those how are new do this it's worth riding an hour or two to get the hang of it vs learning on the streets as you go.
I would like to commend this video for its insightful commentary on the necessity of powerful motorcycles to avoid critical conditions. This is a perspective that I had not previously encountered on UA-cam. The assertion that 300cc engines are sufficient for the needs of the average rider is also a novel one. Bravo
1:00 Yeah, that was a low point for Scotty Kilmer. Didn't have a clue what he was talking about, didn't stop him from making a vid. Made me question everything else I ever learned from him.
Some braking distances 60-0MPH from various TV shows and magazines from the last couple of years: Kia K5 95ft; Porsche 911 90ft; Lexus LX600 119ft; Nissan Pathfinder 116 ft; Chevy Camaro 87 ft; BMW S1000RR 125 ft.
OK, Yamaha GTS1000 motorcycle from 1990s 60-0 in 87 feet… fit different pads and it’ll do better, been there done that, just to see what was possible. It braked that hard I was rotating on the heated grips, as it lifted me off the seat… note to self grip the tank harder with your knees.
@@alex.m901 I can’t remember we’re I saw my figures, I do know they had fantastic braking performance in their day, and it was often discussed on a GTS1000 forum. I could easily get the rear brake o my ABS bike to kick in, but the front on modern tyres and different pads wouldn’t kick in at all on dry tarmac. It could brake that well you could blue the disc hustling the 270kg behemoth along, which was it Achilles heel, as the IoM TT privateer had to fit a cooling duct, as the disc was centred on the rim. It was an impressive motorcycle, that if had been lighter, cheaper and a FZR1000/Thunderace engine in it would have got better reviews.
Good work as usual. I learn a lot from watching your videos. Some times it just reinforces what I know but some of it is new, like braking in corners. I rode a lot of dirt bikes and corner braking was something you avoided. Now I practice trail braking whenever I can. Thanks. I got my MC licence when I was 16, it is now 50 years that I've had my licence. I haven't always had a bike for those years but I have much more experience than many. As with most things, when people tell they know it all, they are usually full of themselves and other nasty stuff. Always room to learn more.
Great vid. I've only ever locked the front wheel once, but somehow managed to save it. The scene - I was going too fast on my GSXR, crested a hill and was presented with a stationary tractor waiting to turn. I was already braking hard, it started as text-book progressive but eventually I just asked for too much from the front, or maybe I just hit a slippy patch, who knows. It was only a split-second between my brain realising the front had locked to releasing the lever, the bike immediately righted itself - which was a surprise as I was unaware it had started to fall over. Quickly re-applied and stopped with about 1 metre to spare. There were two skidmarks that day. btw, no rear brake involved!
Hey man, I created an interest in motorcycles and I'm saving up for the lessons and to buy one in the future. Your video was really educational and insightful for a really really beginner like me, you got a new subscriber :) Cheers!
Great video. I’ve ridden for over 30 + years: sport bikes, Harley, and dirt bikes. Race bike# are fun, but I’ve more fun riding sub liter bikes than anything else. Also anyone who tells you not wear gear is foolish. I have wrecked on and off road. A helmet, gloves, and a good jacket or vest with plates is a must.
I’m not motorbiker, however I did hire a 125cc motor scooter in Greece recently! Which I loved riding. I like this guy he talks great sense. I watched a few of his videos he’s a superb motorbike rider.
Thank You So much for playing that clip from Scotty Kilmer! I do not think that was a joke,Was It Scotty? I have been riding motorcycles for 55 yrs, in California .[WE ride year around] Did anyone see Scottey's video where he shows off his tapped out Suzuki Katana POS. "It's got a race motor in It!" Yea right! I have worked many years in the motorcycle industry . Retired. Scotty might have some good car advice,But STAY AWAY from giving out "Advice" about Motorcycle Riding, And anything else about Motorcycles! , and your crappy "Can of Tuna" [Katana]
I only ever laid my bike down but it was not deliberate! I was riding a country road in England and a section of the road passed through a grove of tree. It had rained the previous day and as I entered this grove of trees hanging over the road, there was a bend to negotiate and I laid the bike over at about 60 mph. I had not taken into account that the road surface was covered with moisture and leaves fallen from the trees! With absolutely no grip, the bike simply slid away from under me and since I was wearing full leathers and boots with studs in the soles, I found myself "skating" along the slick road at high speed! Fortunately the road was smooth and I remained upright until I came to a halt in the middle of the road and thank Heaven there was no traffic!
Longtime rider and this was very eye-opening, I will be spending time improving my breaking skills. Thank you. I have thrown a bike (more accurately jumped off) and avoided an accident but it was low speed and I couldn't maneuver away. Still, in the back of my mind I still think this is a reliable exit plan, clearly it's not. I do think power off the line is a life saver, maybe not 100+HP but some power (along with hitting it before most of the lazy 4wheeled drivers do) has kept me out of harm's way. Driving in a city and moving ahead of the pack when a light turns or on the highway and getting ahead of a cluster (or slowing and getting behind one) has kept me out of some sticky situations. Still, I'll take situational awareness over grunt power every day. Good stuff here
One point is that f=mu x normal force only relates to hard bodies. Tires are not hard bodies, therefore I believe the friction is greater with a larger contact patch, all else being equal.
Somehow you have to address the mass differences between a 2500 Kg car and a 250 KG motorcycle travelling at velocity X. The contact patch of 4 car tires should result in a friction force that is higher than the contact patches of two motorcycle tires, but the kinetic energy of the car would be 10 times greater than the motorcycle.
Not really, that video was specifically about impact protectors. Data shows they're relatively ineffective at doing what they say on the tin... protecting from impacts. They offer abrasion resistance, but so do your outer layers. To the same or higher standard. Ryan was making the point that they should be held to a higher standard, there exists gear that DOES offer decent protection, but it's far from the norm. Disappointed to see the jab in this video.
@@Wobblywiener an impact protector can make the difference between a fractured bone and no fractured bone at low speeds as well as a fractured bone and one that's shattered into hundreds of pieces at high speeds... But I agree that most of the protectors you find in motorcycle jeans and jackets are utter sh*t, even though they cost a small fortune.
To anyone arguing over it : 1/ Any armor is better than none 2/ These armors are made so that they're affordable and so that the injuries you might get are actually fixable by a surgeon 3/ You do you, but I'm still going to wear them when I ride and will still encourage my friends to do so 4/ As a content creator with a wide audience, Fortnine has a duty of prevention, so he can do whatever he likes but he should promote safe conducts and behaviour and saying stuff like "I removed my body armor and you should too" even followed by "here's why" and any length of explanation goes against that 5/ I say all that living in France which is if not THE best place to have any medical issue, is one of them (partly because you won't go bankrupt over medical bills, I know that first hand, I've recently spent 5 days on a hospital bed and it has cost me 126€ TV included) 6/ Airbags are NOT in any way meant to replace body armor, they come in addition to it, and it's immensely more expensive, and the wireless ones still have a high rate of false positives (too high for my taste), and the wired ones are very unpractical and useless until you get thrown of the bike (which is far from most of the time and from most injuries)
Місяць тому
Another extremely useful and great video Master! Great respect and thanks again for lenghtening poor people’s lifes. :)
I already posted a comment on another topic, but I would like to make another point. While the rear brake is NOT your main stopping power, your rear brake IS your main control brake with regards to maneuverability. You need to know when to use either brake or both. The rear will provide stability regardless of speed, but especially in low speed scenarios. The front brake is anywhere from 60-80% of your stopping power, and therefore that's what it should be used for. If you're coming to a stop, slowing down quickly, or "slamming" (controlled, obv.) the brakes, you should use the front as much as possible as it will stop you much faster. Most of the "Cut and Dry" rules for riding, aren't actually black and grey, but changed/depend per person/motorcycle/etc. Learn what you can, apply it, and just enjoy the wind along with the freedom.
I never owned a sports car to go very fast neither a 1000 cc motorcycle but one thing I know is I wouldn’t use them in the regular streets to test their power. That’s what a closed race track is for what’s the urgency of speeding where most drivers are always distracted by others or music or phones. I’m a new rider but common sense is important to know the difference between a professional driver and a daily commuter outside a racetrack.
riding in the rain, especially if one has roads that go through forests and mountainous regions can be amazing. The fresh green colors, clean air, wisps of fog and steam. It is all soo surreal. Best advice to maximize grip is to have good tires.
I rode without any major incidents for 30 years. I did parking lot braking and swerving drills about once a month. I always expected the worst, I always had an "out" in mind, and I never outrode my sightline. I racked up a lot of enjoyable and safe miles. This man makes a lot of good points. All of my mentors, no matter what they rode, would have agreed with him.
Nice video, really appreciate it. I have some issues with statements in this video though: 1. Stopping distance is not just tires. It's also suspension and weight. A motorcycle is a fraction of the weight of a car, so you don't need that much stopping power to stop it. 2. Rear brakes. It really depends on the motorcycle. There ARE rear biased motorcycles (ex. choppers) but it really varies from bike to bike. The easiest way to know which brake to use and what amount is to look at your brake disks. Huge front and tiny rear? Front biased. Equal sizes? Neutral. Huge rear and no front brake? Chopper 3. (not really an issue) Wet conditions. The myth comes from people daily driving slicks. I personally know a few people like this, they're "all about that grip". Stay safe and looking forward to more content :)
Actually mass does not count when you need to stop your vehicle: the more vehicle weights, the more friction force it generates, therefore mass is not so important for calculation of stopping distance: unless your brakes fail during braking process (could happen in overloaded vehicles). In most cases an average motorcycle needs a little bit more distance to stop (in comparison to a compact car), because budget motorcycles have often decelerators instead of proper brakes. Also due to the fact, that motorcycles are not stable and the full braking force can be achieved only in very specific conditions (like mass distribution, driving precisely forward and so on): cars have less problems with braking.
@@piotrpilinko639 I'm sorry, but that is just not true. If you take a car and load it with bricks, it WILL have a significantly increased stopping distance. It's basic physics.
@@MarioStoilov93 Well: basic physics tells you that mass is not important for braking distance - and it's easy to prove. But when you add more mass to your car you do not enhance your disc brakes (nor tires). Therefore friction coefficient on disc brakes decreases (with temperatur) and a distance will increase. Because basic physics does not include all details (like changing friction factor on the braking system).
I've always interpreted "laying it down" as "I was crashing but I held the back brake so I wouldn't high-side." Riding in the rain is doable, but not fun. I don't ride in rain on purpose, but when the weather turned wet on me I always got home.
I liked these. Keep them up friend. I'm a noob to riding been riding bout a month off an on bikes acting up. But this last few days I been riding more an more. And I watch all these videos an they are helpful
As a physicist I really appreciate the way you use physics to argue your points in this video. And great explanation of why the force of friction doesn´t depend on surface area (which is very unintuitive to most students)
I thought we’d get a bit of f=ma. Surely if the bike is much lighter than the car, all things being equal (which of course they aren’t) the bike is going to stop quicker. It has to some sort of factor surely.
If there's one thing surfers are know for, it's their immense stopping power. Back in the days, sailboat would have a Hawaiian surfer on board. In case of an emergency stop, like when the anchor broke, the surfer would surf behind the ship and pull the ship to a full stop within just weeks.
You're neglecting the shear forces enacted on a tire in acceleration/braking. The rubber gets squeezed down by the weight of the vehicle into aspersions in the road and as torque is applied by acceleration/braking, the small bit of tire is forced against the aspersion and the aspersion forces back, creating shear force perpendicular to the tire's rotation. This makes it very clear that wider contact patches will have better grip, because there are more bits of tire for which shear forces to occur. It's also why doing burnouts leaves rubber embedded into the road, because the torque applied is overcoming the shear strength of the rubber and the rubber is "sheared" from the tire into the road.
In general: braking distance is longer when any of the links in the chain fails: rubber on wheels or brake discs. Budget motorcycles often have decelerators instead of proper brakes.
funny enough, same myths as in bicyle!! Specially about the brakes and cornering! Loved this video! (reality tested many times, i can stop my bicycle from 30 km/h to cero in less than 3 meters, most cars needs twice that distance due to their mass to make a full stop from that speed).
I've seen Scotty's "surf the bike" advise before, and my thought was, "How much practice would that take to be able to pull off reliably? How many bikes would you destroy in said practice?" Man seems to think he and everyone else is a circus acrobat.
that's ok, but what if you go off the road and end up on some wet grass or loose gravel, are you going apply a lot of front brake, good luck with that. the front brake needs to be metered for the conditions of the surface you are on. you can put a lot of weight on the front of the bike on a sealed surface but loose gravel or wet grass the front will wash out very quickly if it breaks traction.
I just watched the Thai MotoGP race. The lean angles and speeds they go in pouring rain are impressive. Having said that, I'm glad my KTM has anti-lock brakes with a rain setting.
Many of these situations can be explained by cold tires or old tires. New tires don't take as much time anymore to break in, but you'll still want to wait a few rides before testing the limits. When you're braking, the front fork will absorb a lot of the energy which takes progressively more energy. But in my opinion it's best to gear down when approaching a more risky situation to dramatically decrease your stopping distance. In cases where you can expect cross traffic, it's especially useful to slow down a little and position yourself in such a way that you will have more time and distance to move out of harm's way.
I was a little surprised to hear about motorcycles and cars being about equal in stopping. But I always assumed the opposite of that myth. I figured that since motorcycles have much less mass than cars, therefore less inertia, then they must be able to stop faster. Like cars vs. heavy trucks vs. trains. I just learned something.
A couple of extra things to bear in mind concerning cars. Modern cars tend to have wider and softer tyres than older cars, so the tyre grip levels have increased significantly. (My Evo 6 has the same tyre size as a basic Honda Civic). The UK braking distances are based on an old Ford Anglia and max at around 0.7g, modern cars hit 1.0g or higher. Tyre grip isn't just a simple linear relationship as there are other things happening, not 2 rigid materials interacting. Think Race tyres have different compounds - why? Drag cars hit 4.5g off the line - how? How do you generate friction levels above 1? The first is interlocking, this is where the tyre deforms into the road surface, so softer tyre or rough surfaces improve the grip. This is the reason shellgrip is applied at intersections / junctions. When rain is added to the equation is then becomes a matter of can the tyre disperse enough water to allow full interlocking to occur? Water fills the bottom of the cracks / hole in the road surface and lifts the tyre a fraction. As the tyre losses this battle, i.e. it can't shift all the water, then you rapidly lose the interlocking effect. When you lose all of this interlocking you are starting to aquaplane. The other is a collection of weak atomic forces that form temporary bonds between the surfaces, but due to the size of the contact patch these add up into measurable increases. This is shown by how a race track can 'rubber in' and the rubber to rubber bond is significantly higher that rubber to tarmac. These forces almost disappear with water. Modern ABS does not just prevent wheel lock, there's also EBA or emergency brake assist. This detect an unusually rapid brake application and applies the brake even quicker up to the point of ABS intervention. This means cars reach there ultimate braking rate much quicker than bikes and can easily exceed 1.0g, something a bike can't. This also eats into the riders reaction time.
The other problem leading to the "don't combine turning and braking" myth is overzealous instructors and students who fail to distinguish the range from the street. On the training range we advise strongly against combining traction demands. What sometimes is not communicated effectively is that beginner training classes focus on fundamentals, getting underway, shifting, turning, and stopping. Putting those fundamentals together into techniques is something that new riders need to be encouraged to practice and be prepared to incorporate as they gain experience in the sport.
I always thought "never use your front brake", "don't break in corners", "dont ride in the rain" was contrary advice since I do all of those on my triathlon bike.
I've had afew bikes over the years, including a 900 Ducati. however my 40km commuter Honda 125 was passed by everything on the road,but I caught up to them all at the next traffic light.
@KurtFrederiksen My commute has me passing these intersections 6 times per day, 5 days per week, and 50 weeks per year. Not counting bicycle paths. It's not a speed thing it's a turning thing, I literally have to take those corners at 5km with my feet down. They are that slick when wet or cold. Just how slow are we supposed to go in Nederland anyway? God forbid we drive like normal people. Last week, I was going straight in the rain at about 80-100. I have to cross two patches of red asphalt. My back tire breaks traction and begins to slide. Just from going straight over wet red asphalt.
I have no tattoos but I can totally relate to the free skin removal part. Just been on a motorcycle accident recently. A stray dog got in the way while I'm riding home who suddenly make an unpredictable turn right straight on my lane and then the unfortunate thing happened. Knees gashed pants ripped, shoulders and chest in pain for two weeks or so. Again may this be a lesson to fellow riders. Be vigilant on the road and drive safe always... 🤕
5:55 this is very complicated situation, but to break it down, the less weight transfer you have (back to front in braking or side to side in cornering, in a car) the better overall grip you have available. Therefore, a car will typically out brake a bike, other factors being equal (tire compound and heat, tire patch to inertia, etc.) because the length of the bike will often transfer 100% of the weight to the front tire, where this pretty much never occurs with a car, although it can in cornering. This is also the reason why a car can usually out corner a motorcycle on a skid pad, again, all other factors being similar. One caveat being, that once a tire begins to skid, it might still have some grip, but it is nearly as little as the grip it has on the pavement when it is no longer in contact with the pavement at all. So… if your rear brakes lock up on a car, you’re just about in the same situation as when the rear wheel leaves the ground on a bike.
I bought my 120 hp bike as first one not because its safe, but because it will not be boring after 1 month of riding, dad told me so, and im fully agree on that. Also i have a question, one time i needed a hard brake from 160 km/h, i started to progressively pull a lever but on a half way frontwheel started to wobble and i afraided it, so i released it and with 90 km/h moved out from hazard. Could that wobbling leave me in trouble if i progressed even further?
IDK what exactly you mean by wobbling. It could've been that you kept your arms too stiff during braking. Check this video about common braking mistakes, maybe you'll find the answer there! ua-cam.com/video/CvC63Iq5ecc/v-deo.html
The main reason for my reluctance to use my front brake when learning was from too many skin rashes when riding a bicycle as a youth. It didnt take long for me to realise motorcycle tyres and brakes are different beasts altogether.
The second myth is actually correct. Motorcycles are worse at braking than cars, without accounting for the driver. Here are a few 60-0 mph braking tests, taken from Cycleworld RSV4: 130.6 feet S1000RR: 127.7 feet Panigale V4 SP2: 128.7 feet Now for a few large cars: F150: 129 feet (Motortrend) Odyssey: 112 feet (Motorweek) Camry: 118 feet (Motortrend) The best high performance motorcycles with professional riders are about as amazing as braking as the best selling pickup truck in the USA with a soccer mom stomping on the brake pedal. Any smaller/lighter car blows away every motorcycle on the market. The problem isn't the contact patch, it's flipping the bike over. This is why cars can accelerate muuuuuch faster than motorcycles too.
IDK, comparing results from different tests (done at different temperature on different pavement) is not a fair comparison. The clip at 5:55 shows both the bike and the car braking on the same surface and they brake pretty much the same. Also cars don't accelerate faster, certainly not muuch😁
Here is a brake test from 100mph between Super Duke and 911, on the same pavement. The difference is pretty much within a margin of error. ua-cam.com/video/KsxeDbbgmj8/v-deo.htmlsi=qI-Ey3qfUYpHb2yO&t=684
@@MotoControlEn Well, there's a video idea mate. Go ahead and make one, I'd love to see the results that you produce! 5 different bike models/types with 5 riders of different skill levels rotating between them versus 5 car types with 5 drivers. Do a head to head bracket scoring system between all of them to add a little fun to the video and have people bet on who they think will win.
A newbie took me out because he didn’t think he could brake in a corner.. hit me head on, him on a crotch rocket, me on a cruiser.. he overcooked the corner and didn’t even try the brakes, just went right in to me and broke my bones
With regards to power, I live in an urban region in Asia and vehicle density on road is much higher than much of US or Europe. When I was riding 300+ cc bike, there were times when I wished I had some reserve HP to accelerate out of a hairy situation - usually when some car is blindly inching into my lane, while other cars were to my sides and behind. Without HP, my options were maneuvering to the side or slowing down, which meant that I had to rely on other road users around me to be alert and give way. As a rider, putting my safety in other people's hands is basically seeking death. I have a more powerful bike now (too powerful tbh), and I appreciate having that reserve HP which translate to more and better maneuvering paths. But I agree, for a new rider, less can be more.
"If dumping the bike is such an alpha move, how come that nobody practices it?" - the laughter hurts.
that one got me good
Always the question: Did YOU dump your bike, or did your BIKE dump you?
... and I am pretty sure that my MSF trainer would have kicked me out had I "surfed" on one of their bikes.
“… practises… "
Dumping a dirt bike is normal course of practice. Dumping a road bike on the other hand … 😂
You need a powerful motocycle to "accelerate out of situation"
The situation: 👮♂️
Well there certainly are advantages to a quicker bike.
My first ride alone, I had a schizophrenic older gentleman accuse me of doing 85 in a 35. I was not. He tailed me inches away from my rear tire. I could have easily downshifted and created distance.
It’s always nice to know I have the option of distance.
You only get caught if your bike isn't fast enough.
@@buddy1155 I only ride liter bikes and you are 1000% correct.
100% acceleration can save you from some situations. But ya don't need a litre bike to accelerate quickly. A 500cc bike can easily have 0-60mph in the 4 second range.
“Free tattoo removal” cracked me up 😂
Hahahaha totalmente!
@ jaja totalmente de acuerdo, me hizo reír mucho también por es muy gracioso:)))
This video was so long I got tired of holding my laptop.
_So I had to lay 'er down._
😁😁😁
GOBBLES BORTHER....
@@MrRoblox1377 DDAMN CLIBINGS
Laughed so hard that I couldn't hold my phone any more 😂
So...
IHADDALAYERDOWN!
I just learnt more in 17min's than 40yr's of riding. Well done young man.
Really? I knew half of those myths were wrong just from my bicycle riding experience as a kid.
3:40 I currently reside in the Netherlands. During the closed course part of the exam there is an "emergency braking" exercise. The goal is to drive 50 until the cones and then to brake as hard as possible. The track distance for the breaking is 17 meters, but that does not mean that you're allowed to use all of it. In my experience, Honda CBF600 breaks (with ABS engagement) easily within 6-8 meters. Anyone's telling that bike sliding on asphalt is safer or stops faster than just powerful breaking has clearly never tried to brake...
*brake
@@F3udF1st fixed :)
@@F3udF1st Clearly autocorrect.
@@onabikewithadrone In the DPRB they call it module 1 (or mod 1). There's a bunch of other stuff to do as well, but the emergency stop is on that list.
We have something similar in NSW, Australia. The speed is about 25-35 kph but the stopping distance is proportionally shorter.
As a former instructor for motorcycles and cars in the Netherlands i have to compliment you for this video, accurate and well explained 👍. I can't understand why so many rich/western countries don't see the need for proper driving/riding education and examn for motorcycles and cars, it would save many lives and even more injuries.
That cop hiding on a turn... absolute recipe for a disaster 🤣
Yeah, another idiot move 👮♀️
Yea, I agree. That is not a safe place to "hide". Target fixation, mid turn, AND throw in an involuntary speedo check. Not cool.
I've been riding 6 months, I didn't believe all of those...but took me a while to get over my fear of the front brake. Your practice Videos really helped with that.
I'd rather use the front break, the rear makes my tyre slip too soon.
Well, as i new rider, what i realised, that you actualy cant brake [like emrgency braking] while mid corner, but still you can slow down, or kind of fast slow down, which is still slower then a car who can slam the brake with abs mid corner.
Also thing that is hard is when you stop your bike mid corner it cant be leaned because its gooing to fall, and if you make it streight you will start gooing in direction off track.
I guess you can practice this to make it all right, but it is still a hard and risky manuver.
So what you can do is to predict and avoid situations that may put you in that kind of situation.
@@goranmajnaric556 "when you stop your bike mid corner it cant be leaned because its gooing to fall"
When practicing braking in the corner, I find that I actually have to make an effort to keep the bike leaned while applying brakes to maintain my curveradius. It wants to straighten up (which is a reason why snapgrabbing the brakes is bad, too fast a standup sends you too far upright with momentum).
The fallover point only really matters once you're at like 0-2mph (aka fully stopped) which is why you see Mr MotoControl straighten up right at the end of his cornerturn exercise. Before complete stop, falling over is much less of a concern (separate from losing traction, ofc). And, obviously, there are ways to lean too much for the speed you've gotten (being full lean at 3mph probably isn't terribly stable, practice develops this sense of toofarlean). Complex forces from many force inputs. Requires practice.
Truly, during the turningbrake motion, you're trying to skirt the edge of notslipping fought between the brakestopping friction and your turning friction. The same sort of fight talked about during warnings of "don't increase lean angle while accelerating" only, it's reverseforce for one aspect.
Your final point about prediction and awareness is spot on though! Why climb out of a metaphorical hole you could have just avoided falling into?
Been riding for 23 years. Trailbraking is so second nature to me I feel weird cornering NOT using the front brake.
@@goranmajnaric556 you really need to practice trail braking.
In the last piece F9 was talking about how armour is essentially useless when it comes to preventing fractures. His reasoning is that to get certified a piece of armour should allow no more than 16kN of force through, but a fracture requires at least 4kN. So in this regard armour is useless. Instead, he advocates for airbags, which in contrast are much more safer, or at least some special type of armour that offers more protection. I get it you might be referring to the phenomenon of people saying gear is useless, but just to clarify that wasn't at all Ryan's position there.
Anyways, fantastic video as always!
Yeah, did em dirty… 😅
Incredibly important context yea, pretty lame that he left it out. But it gets engagement in the comments if you criticise a big name like Fortnine i guess, that's probably why he did it.
Guy that tells you to lay down your bike and ride it like a surfboard on the other hand, now that's bad advice in pretty much any situation.
@@cosmodewit Scott is a dumbass
@@cosmodewit Thats Scotty Kilmer, and while I can't stand his video's and as such have not seen that one (probably one of the many I have ignored as they fill up my suggested viewing) I suspect from the tone of his voice he is being facetious. But yes the Ryan Fortnine was way out of context.
Ryan's position isn't "armor isn't going to protect you in big hits, but you should still wear it for the small stuff", it's "armor isn't going to protect you in big hits, so I don't bother with any". I like Fortnine, but this video hardly takes him out of context.
I crossed half of South America on a humble Suzuki GN-125. On most regular highways, it handles the necessary speed for driving, and even on expressways, with caution, it’s possible to ride it.
Riding in rain after a long dry spell is sketchy due to the oil left behind by cars.
Which is why you take a 30min coffee break and then can continue pretty safely :)
Modern tyres are great once the oil washes away, but it wasn't always that way. They used to be terrible in the wet.
@@peterv3429
I agree, but would like to add one detail. How long the coffee break needs to be depends on how hard it is raining. Gentle rain takes longer to wash off the slippery slime off the road. I live in the area of Seattle Washington USA. Dry spells are often ended with rain that is so gentle it is more like mist. It can take days for that gentle rain to wash the slime off the road. At the opposite end of the range, a hard down pour can clean a road in just 15 minutes.
Cars etc don't drop oil and fuel like you might think, at least in Europe anyway, as the annual vehicle checks include any fluid leaks. It's actually more dust from tyres and brakes. The rain lifts the particles and sort of lubricate the surface. You should however, be mindful of places like bus stops, where dropped diesel can occur.
@@750triton Try wandering through a Walmart parking lot when it’s empty and look at the parking spaces for an idea of how much oil and other fluids are leaking from cars on the road. (Most places in the USA do not have a safety inspection that checks for leaking fluids…)
Im a beginner but because I live in a country with proper education and tests before getting a drivers license, I knew all of this 🎉
The MSF course in the US is such a great resource, it's a shame it's not a requirement to get your MC endorsement here
Many riders don't have proper training or motorcycle endorsement. When I took my training class, there were several students who had been riding for a while and decided to finally do it legally.
Also, many riders and car drivers get complacent and have been riding long enough so they forget much of it.
Well yes I agree, got the full braking drill on a Honda MBX 80 when I was 16 yrs old applying for a small motorcycle licence in Germany.
I can't express just how much I appreciate this compilation. And you nailed it with "Dorel" who got himself a UA-cam channel and is now spreading misinformation with authority. Keep it up ✌️
So right 🎉
His wrong about hard braking on motorcycle. Car decelerates at faster rate. Physics
@@evilkababcars have just two more wheels but 5x if not more than the mass of a motorcycle. And keep their aerodynamic profile all along. A biker even on a race bike can add a lot of drag and hence deceleration just putting their torso upright before a corner or when in need to stop
@@cochazza Problem of fast deceleration on motorcycle isn't a mass, but height of mass centre. You break hard and do stoppie. Car doesn't have that problem
Andrei is the very best instructor and giver of helpful real world advice for motorcycle riders on UA-cam. All delivered with his upbeat, to the point and non-condescending attitude. Thank you Andrei!
10:19 this breaking in mid corner thing is, again, pretty much the same on a motorcycle as it is in a car. You have a certain amount of tire traction budget. When in a straight path, pretty much 100% of that budget is available for braking. When you are cornering, you are already using some of that budget for cornering. The more budget you spend on cornering, the less there is available for braking. Exceed that budget and the tires will lose traction and begin to skid. It happens with cars and bikes alike.
I believe that a level of fear comes with learning to ride or drive the first few times. It’s like the first time our parents or whoever first took off the training wheels of our bicycles when we were kids and tried to get us to ride on our own. We were shaky at the beginning but once the fear began to dissipate and we learned to balance and control, we gained confidence, and with “practice” and guidance (teaching), we got better. As adults we have learned that the only thing to fear is fear itself. Constant learning and practicing (the right way of course) will help to mitigate the fear in my opinion. This video is spot on as it pertains to the many myths and misinformation that are circulating about motorcycling. Awesome! 👏 😎🇺🇸✌️👍
I just wanna share something.
A have a friend who is a whiz when it comes to fixing motorcycles. This friend's dad was a former motorcycle racer (he used to compete in motocross and short circuit races in south east asia). One time, when I let him try my new Suzuki (I was also quite new to the motorcycle world at that time), he praised how agile the bike was but had a soft brake. After asking him for details about it, he only kept speaking about the rear brake. Perplexed, I asked him, "how about the front, was it soft too?" He gave me a raised eyebrow and said, "You never use the front brake, iho."
This man competed in professional racing for around 30 years so far be it from me to argue to his face that the advice sounded sketchy (keep in mind I was a newbie back then).
Now ten years later, it was the only advice I never followed. To add to that, my personal experiences with using the front brake has saved me from many near misses. I love my front brakes!
If you watch the Asian flat track racers you will see why he said never use your front brake.
@@marymindaenriquez2108 he never did flat track. Circuit and motocross only
@@Miguel23887 I don't get it, so using the front brake in a flat track is prohibited?
@@itpugil No, not prohibited. Just not something you're going to want to do. Many flat trackers don't even have a front brake.
Most (sometimes all, as in the case of the dude doing a stoppy) of your braking is done with the front tire...on the street. Off road is just the opposite.
- I rode a 14hp bike for 3 years, I was slower that cars on highways but it never was a huge problem and I never had a crash because of it, I just needed lots of time to pass trucks or slow cars.
- I never had ABS on my bikes and braking hard with the front brake in a straight line or braking gently mid-corner never caused me to crash, one just has to be progressive with one's braking.
- Regarding riding during rain, I'd say roundabouts are pretty tricky too so be wary of them. And change your tires if they're at their limit, on dry days it's not that big of a deal but it is when it's wet.
The last time I had to lay my bike down was after I dropped a screw behind the clutch hub while fitting a new clutch kit!
Drole very drole. I wonder how many people got that LOL 😂 😂😂
Brake & Braking. Break and Breaking is what we are trying to avoid. Keep up the good work.
When I don't wear full gear for whatever reason I often kick or bump my knee on something on the bike. It hurts like hell and I've no idea why anyone would want to do that (+ get hit by debris or insects) without a really solid reason. I love my motorcycle pants, super comfy and protective for several activities.
Ryan didn't ditch armor without replacing it. He switched to worn airbag systems. It was a misleading clip without that full context. I'm not personally sold on switching, but the airbag systems certainly have a fantastic layer of protection.
@@EvanEdwards only thing worth taking out with an H-MOOV is the jacket back protector since it has a nice big one
I don't want to ride in the rain because I hate having to wash my motorcycle afterwards. 😜
i ride in the rain so i don't have to wash it
I live in Florida. You mean you live in a place where you can ride without riding in the rain? 😂
@@06capoeiristayeah I live in northern Washington, if I only rode when it didn’t rain I would never get to ride.
@jaredflacker81trttry Scotland 😢
Poor you.
I was driving my Kia Soul yesterday, and a squirrel ran out in front of me, so I had to lay-er-down.
* haddalayerdown *
Scotty Kilmer spreads a lot of false information.
He's right about one thing though - BMWs _are_ an endless money pit 🤣
He is all click bait now. Used to be interesting and good.
@@soulknight89 He is, and it sucks because I actually like his personality.
@@233kosta Can't argue that
@@233kosta You know those tests where you tick boxes? You sometimes pick the right answers even without knowing what you're doing 😂
15:29 Be fair though. I remember this video. He wasn't saying "don't use gear". He was saying "here are the places where it matters, based on injury stats and here's where it's debatable to have protection. I'm an ATGATT guy but I don't have every inch of my body covered in kevlar. There are places statistically where one is more likely to be struck or scrape and I keep those portions protected.....as I'm sure you do too.
Ah... If it ain't our old favourite - Scotty Kilmer!!!
Note to all riders, new & old: DO NOT bet your life on an action/skill you cannot practice in advance! Yes, this includes riding a sliding bike "like a surf board".
Absolutely........
These are things that do occur but purely by accident as you're sliding along beside the bike.
It's like seeing the racing bikers skid on a bend, roll off and run to catch their motorbike as it drifts along the track all by itself!
@@fabianmckenna8197 Looks really cool when the '80s stuntman does it, but if your first practice attempt is what's meant to save your life, you're in big trouble
I mean, I had assumed that was meant to be sarcastic. If someone else didnt realise that and stupidly tried it, well their the onw who have tro live (or not) with the consequences
@@peterwarren7388 It's kinda hard to tell with that guy.
I was with the "here we go again, laying down a bike" until he said "then you jump on it and ride it like a surfboard," sounds like he had his tongue firmly in his cheek with that comment, maybe if I saw the entire video instead of a clip I might be able to judge if he was serious or not.
I read the owner's manual: manufacturer says to use the brakes to stop -- not jumping off the bike like an idiot.
What about "Loud pipes save lives"?
Ha ha, yeah, I love that one!
I love that one so much I bought a loud pipe I agree it's obnoxious and pointless but I don't care, I also ride a 125
Idiotic: you get pulled over, police checks if the db killer is installed, or the markings if they feels like, and your getting a big fine, the prohibition to use the bike until restored. And I thanks the policemen doing that, it saves me hours of sleep!
@davidebacchi9030 police in the uk your joking right got time to pull a loud bike, they so short staffed no time for real criminals definitely no time for a loud 125, they don't care 🤣
@ Not UK, Switzerland
Love your no-nonsene yet humouristic approach. Think I'll concentrate on further learning to break mid turn. A very useful skill.
My dad taught me one thing which I always remember and tell everyone else “remember you are the just skilled driver on the road everyone else is not so be aware of your surroundings and keep the distance from everyone” that’s why I have never gotten into any accident and been driving for over 24 years.
Excellent video made with humour & lots of great advice to debunk the myths!
In my country, when it's raining the traction is zero! I m not talking about braking alone, sometimes you just can't go off the lights. I had my back wheel locked for 5 to ten metres only by closing the throttle in wet
1:20 you have got to be kidding me. I've always known there was something about him I didn't like. I think I caught 15 seconds of one of his videos, and realized that it wasn't for me. I am horrorified at how he can spread disinformation like that, AND that people eat it up. Idiocracy is coming true!
So much fun seeing the video,,love your jokes......
I ride a 20hp bike and have no issues keeping up with traffic on highways, but our max allowed speed is only 100kph
I discovered this when I moved to Asia. It's amazing what you can do in the 15-20 hp range. I was carving up mountain roads and loving it. You won't win any drag races but if you're a skilled rider you can keep momentum up through corners and keep a good pace going.
You have a great sense of humor about these problematic beliefs.
Just some small corrections about your explanation on car vs. motorcycle tire traction. First, the static coefficient of friction is not the same for car vs. motorcycle tires. Second, the static coefficient of friction changes as contact pressure changes. Third, your explanation assumes that the total normal force is the same for both vehicles but motorcycles are so much lighter that their normal force is lower than a car’s.
I don't ride motorbikes any more but I love your videos. The delivery of the information is amazing. They also turned out a big success for 9yo. We are having a good laugh while learning and then practicing, whatever is applicable, on his bicycle.
I have a suggestion for new riders I did myself. I found that behind many big businesses like grocery stores, walmarts, target, or huge connected shopping areas behind them is a decent size area where you can practice riding. On my day off I carefully rode in such an area moving out any decent size objects and swept (carried in the car) patches of sand, nails, etc then came back with the bike to practice to get an idea how it accelerates, stops, and lean each direction (for example my sym hd200 I can lean more on a right turn than left due to the center stand scraping). My advice for those how are new do this it's worth riding an hour or two to get the hang of it vs learning on the streets as you go.
I would like to commend this video for its insightful commentary on the necessity of powerful motorcycles to avoid critical conditions. This is a perspective that I had not previously encountered on UA-cam. The assertion that 300cc engines are sufficient for the needs of the average rider is also a novel one. Bravo
Legend! Love the advice and the humour. Great work😊
1:00 Yeah, that was a low point for Scotty Kilmer. Didn't have a clue what he was talking about, didn't stop him from making a vid. Made me question everything else I ever learned from him.
Some braking distances 60-0MPH from various TV shows and magazines from the last couple of years: Kia K5 95ft; Porsche 911 90ft; Lexus LX600 119ft; Nissan Pathfinder 116 ft; Chevy Camaro 87 ft; BMW S1000RR 125 ft.
OK, Yamaha GTS1000 motorcycle from 1990s 60-0 in 87 feet… fit different pads and it’ll do better, been there done that, just to see what was possible. It braked that hard I was rotating on the heated grips, as it lifted me off the seat… note to self grip the tank harder with your knees.
@mikecrane2782 90s bike without or with ABS?
@@mikecrane2782 That's pretty amazing. According to MCS, the GTS1000 stopped in 39.6m (130 ft) from 100 km/h (62 MPH).
@@alex.m901 I can’t remember we’re I saw my figures, I do know they had fantastic braking performance in their day, and it was often discussed on a GTS1000 forum. I could easily get the rear brake o my ABS bike to kick in, but the front on modern tyres and different pads wouldn’t kick in at all on dry tarmac. It could brake that well you could blue the disc hustling the 270kg behemoth along, which was it Achilles heel, as the IoM TT privateer had to fit a cooling duct, as the disc was centred on the rim. It was an impressive motorcycle, that if had been lighter, cheaper and a FZR1000/Thunderace engine in it would have got better reviews.
Good work as usual. I learn a lot from watching your videos. Some times it just reinforces what I know but some of it is new, like braking in corners. I rode a lot of dirt bikes and corner braking was something you avoided. Now I practice trail braking whenever I can. Thanks.
I got my MC licence when I was 16, it is now 50 years that I've had my licence. I haven't always had a bike for those years but I have much more experience than many. As with most things, when people tell they know it all, they are usually full of themselves and other nasty stuff. Always room to learn more.
Greetings from Brazil but I'm Uruguayan. I loved it. 👏
1:31 I used to watch Scotty a lot. I’m pretty sure he was joking on that one, but I didn’t see that video so maybe he was serious?
I really love your channel, thank you for all the knowledge shared!
Great vid.
I've only ever locked the front wheel once, but somehow managed to save it.
The scene - I was going too fast on my GSXR, crested a hill and was presented with a stationary tractor waiting to turn. I was already braking hard, it started as text-book progressive but eventually I just asked for too much from the front, or maybe I just hit a slippy patch, who knows. It was only a split-second between my brain realising the front had locked to releasing the lever, the bike immediately righted itself - which was a surprise as I was unaware it had started to fall over. Quickly re-applied and stopped with about 1 metre to spare. There were two skidmarks that day.
btw, no rear brake involved!
GREAT words, excellent video, thank you. I still don't enjoy riding in the rain though. Love your accent! Cheers from Sydney Australia 🙂
Hey man, I created an interest in motorcycles and I'm saving up for the lessons and to buy one in the future. Your video was really educational and insightful for a really really beginner like me, you got a new subscriber :) Cheers!
Hi everyone !
I love and appreciate your work!
It is very valuable !
Respect !
Keep going like this !
Great video. I’ve ridden for over 30 + years: sport bikes, Harley, and dirt bikes. Race bike# are fun, but I’ve more fun riding sub liter bikes than anything else. Also anyone who tells you not wear gear is foolish. I have wrecked on and off road. A helmet, gloves, and a good jacket or vest with plates is a must.
As always great insights coupled with low key humor. Well done❤
I’m not motorbiker, however I did hire a 125cc motor scooter in Greece recently! Which I loved riding. I like this guy he talks great sense. I watched a few of his videos he’s a superb motorbike rider.
Thank You So much for playing that clip from Scotty Kilmer! I do not think that was a joke,Was It Scotty? I have been riding motorcycles for 55 yrs, in California .[WE ride year around] Did anyone see Scottey's video where he shows off his tapped out Suzuki Katana POS. "It's got a race motor in It!" Yea right! I have worked many years in the motorcycle industry . Retired. Scotty might have some good car advice,But STAY AWAY from giving out "Advice" about Motorcycle Riding, And anything else about Motorcycles! , and your crappy "Can of Tuna" [Katana]
I only ever laid my bike down but it was not deliberate! I was riding a country road in England and a section of the road passed through a grove of tree. It had rained the previous day and as I entered this grove of trees hanging over the road, there was a bend to negotiate and I laid the bike over at about 60 mph. I had not taken into account that the road surface was covered with moisture and leaves fallen from the trees! With absolutely no grip, the bike simply slid away from under me and since I was wearing full leathers and boots with studs in the soles, I found myself "skating" along the slick road at high speed! Fortunately the road was smooth and I remained upright until I came to a halt in the middle of the road and thank Heaven there was no traffic!
Longtime rider and this was very eye-opening, I will be spending time improving my breaking skills. Thank you.
I have thrown a bike (more accurately jumped off) and avoided an accident but it was low speed and I couldn't maneuver away. Still, in the back of my mind I still think this is a reliable exit plan, clearly it's not.
I do think power off the line is a life saver, maybe not 100+HP but some power (along with hitting it before most of the lazy 4wheeled drivers do) has kept me out of harm's way. Driving in a city and moving ahead of the pack when a light turns or on the highway and getting ahead of a cluster (or slowing and getting behind one) has kept me out of some sticky situations. Still, I'll take situational awareness over grunt power every day. Good stuff here
One point is that f=mu x normal force only relates to hard bodies. Tires are not hard bodies, therefore I believe the friction is greater with a larger contact patch, all else being equal.
Somehow you have to address the mass differences between a 2500 Kg car and a 250 KG motorcycle travelling at velocity X. The contact patch of 4 car tires should result in a friction force that is higher than the contact patches of two motorcycle tires, but the kinetic energy of the car would be 10 times greater than the motorcycle.
Love how easy you make breaking and turning look on that Duke. I just got one myself and realized its not the easiest bike to learn on. 😅
I mean...Scotty does sound like he's joking
Normally he has terrible takes, though.
Maybe!
Yes scotty was kidding he talked about it multiple times.
Hes a very sarcastic person😂
I watched Scotty's video several months ago, he definitely wasn't joking!
I took it as joking.
Thank you! This seems to apply well to my 20x4 fat tire e-bike and gives me more confidence to keep riding (even though as of comment I'm a new rider)
I love your tackle to Fortnine. Well deserved !
Sort of, the clip that was taken from was that he reduced the armor in favor of an airbag setup.
@@512Chaos It wasn't about airbag set up
Not really, that video was specifically about impact protectors. Data shows they're relatively ineffective at doing what they say on the tin... protecting from impacts.
They offer abrasion resistance, but so do your outer layers. To the same or higher standard.
Ryan was making the point that they should be held to a higher standard, there exists gear that DOES offer decent protection, but it's far from the norm.
Disappointed to see the jab in this video.
@@Wobblywiener an impact protector can make the difference between a fractured bone and no fractured bone at low speeds as well as a fractured bone and one that's shattered into hundreds of pieces at high speeds... But I agree that most of the protectors you find in motorcycle jeans and jackets are utter sh*t, even though they cost a small fortune.
To anyone arguing over it :
1/ Any armor is better than none
2/ These armors are made so that they're affordable and so that the injuries you might get are actually fixable by a surgeon
3/ You do you, but I'm still going to wear them when I ride and will still encourage my friends to do so
4/ As a content creator with a wide audience, Fortnine has a duty of prevention, so he can do whatever he likes but he should promote safe conducts and behaviour and saying stuff like "I removed my body armor and you should too" even followed by "here's why" and any length of explanation goes against that
5/ I say all that living in France which is if not THE best place to have any medical issue, is one of them (partly because you won't go bankrupt over medical bills, I know that first hand, I've recently spent 5 days on a hospital bed and it has cost me 126€ TV included)
6/ Airbags are NOT in any way meant to replace body armor, they come in addition to it, and it's immensely more expensive, and the wireless ones still have a high rate of false positives (too high for my taste), and the wired ones are very unpractical and useless until you get thrown of the bike (which is far from most of the time and from most injuries)
Another extremely useful and great video Master! Great respect and thanks again for lenghtening poor people’s lifes. :)
I already posted a comment on another topic, but I would like to make another point. While the rear brake is NOT your main stopping power, your rear brake IS your main control brake with regards to maneuverability. You need to know when to use either brake or both. The rear will provide stability regardless of speed, but especially in low speed scenarios. The front brake is anywhere from 60-80% of your stopping power, and therefore that's what it should be used for. If you're coming to a stop, slowing down quickly, or "slamming" (controlled, obv.) the brakes, you should use the front as much as possible as it will stop you much faster. Most of the "Cut and Dry" rules for riding, aren't actually black and grey, but changed/depend per person/motorcycle/etc. Learn what you can, apply it, and just enjoy the wind along with the freedom.
I never owned a sports car to go very fast neither a 1000 cc motorcycle but one thing I know is I wouldn’t use them in the regular streets to test their power. That’s what a closed race track is for what’s the urgency of speeding where most drivers are always distracted by others or music or phones. I’m a new rider but common sense is important to know the difference between a professional driver and a daily commuter outside a racetrack.
Yes me too, I work with guys who still have the mindset that exceeding the speed limit is somehow 'cool', a very outdated way of thinking in my view
@ exactly it’s childish and irresponsible. Roads were build to travel and commute according to safety guidelines.
riding in the rain, especially if one has roads that go through forests and mountainous regions can be amazing. The fresh green colors, clean air, wisps of fog and steam. It is all soo surreal. Best advice to maximize grip is to have good tires.
I rode without any major incidents for 30 years. I did parking lot braking and swerving drills about once a month. I always expected the worst, I always had an "out" in mind, and I never outrode my sightline.
I racked up a lot of enjoyable and safe miles.
This man makes a lot of good points. All of my mentors, no matter what they rode, would have agreed with him.
Moto Control, you're f.... ing the best😂😂😂
Nice video, really appreciate it. I have some issues with statements in this video though:
1. Stopping distance is not just tires. It's also suspension and weight. A motorcycle is a fraction of the weight of a car, so you don't need that much stopping power to stop it.
2. Rear brakes. It really depends on the motorcycle. There ARE rear biased motorcycles (ex. choppers) but it really varies from bike to bike. The easiest way to know which brake to use and what amount is to look at your brake disks. Huge front and tiny rear? Front biased. Equal sizes? Neutral. Huge rear and no front brake? Chopper
3. (not really an issue) Wet conditions. The myth comes from people daily driving slicks. I personally know a few people like this, they're "all about that grip".
Stay safe and looking forward to more content :)
Actually mass does not count when you need to stop your vehicle: the more vehicle weights, the more friction force it generates, therefore mass is not so important for calculation of stopping distance: unless your brakes fail during braking process (could happen in overloaded vehicles). In most cases an average motorcycle needs a little bit more distance to stop (in comparison to a compact car), because budget motorcycles have often decelerators instead of proper brakes. Also due to the fact, that motorcycles are not stable and the full braking force can be achieved only in very specific conditions (like mass distribution, driving precisely forward and so on): cars have less problems with braking.
@@piotrpilinko639 I'm sorry, but that is just not true. If you take a car and load it with bricks, it WILL have a significantly increased stopping distance. It's basic physics.
@@MarioStoilov93 Well: basic physics tells you that mass is not important for braking distance - and it's easy to prove. But when you add more mass to your car you do not enhance your disc brakes (nor tires). Therefore friction coefficient on disc brakes decreases (with temperatur) and a distance will increase. Because basic physics does not include all details (like changing friction factor on the braking system).
I've always interpreted "laying it down" as "I was crashing but I held the back brake so I wouldn't high-side." Riding in the rain is doable, but not fun. I don't ride in rain on purpose, but when the weather turned wet on me I always got home.
I liked these. Keep them up friend. I'm a noob to riding been riding bout a month off an on bikes acting up. But this last few days I been riding more an more. And I watch all these videos an they are helpful
Brilliant, and everything so true! Thanks a ton!
As a physicist I really appreciate the way you use physics to argue your points in this video. And great explanation of why the force of friction doesn´t depend on surface area (which is very unintuitive to most students)
I thought we’d get a bit of f=ma. Surely if the bike is much lighter than the car, all things being equal (which of course they aren’t) the bike is going to stop quicker. It has to some sort of factor surely.
If there's one thing surfers are know for, it's their immense stopping power.
Back in the days, sailboat would have a Hawaiian surfer on board. In case of an emergency stop, like when the anchor broke, the surfer would surf behind the ship and pull the ship to a full stop within just weeks.
You're neglecting the shear forces enacted on a tire in acceleration/braking. The rubber gets squeezed down by the weight of the vehicle into aspersions in the road and as torque is applied by acceleration/braking, the small bit of tire is forced against the aspersion and the aspersion forces back, creating shear force perpendicular to the tire's rotation. This makes it very clear that wider contact patches will have better grip, because there are more bits of tire for which shear forces to occur. It's also why doing burnouts leaves rubber embedded into the road, because the torque applied is overcoming the shear strength of the rubber and the rubber is "sheared" from the tire into the road.
In general: braking distance is longer when any of the links in the chain fails: rubber on wheels or brake discs. Budget motorcycles often have decelerators instead of proper brakes.
funny enough, same myths as in bicyle!! Specially about the brakes and cornering! Loved this video! (reality tested many times, i can stop my bicycle from 30 km/h to cero in less than 3 meters, most cars needs twice that distance due to their mass to make a full stop from that speed).
Very good knowledge, presented in logical manner.
I've seen Scotty's "surf the bike" advise before, and my thought was, "How much practice would that take to be able to pull off reliably? How many bikes would you destroy in said practice?" Man seems to think he and everyone else is a circus acrobat.
that's ok, but what if you go off the road and end up on some wet grass or loose gravel, are you going apply a lot of front brake, good luck with that. the front brake needs to be metered for the conditions of the surface you are on. you can put a lot of weight on the front of the bike on a sealed surface but loose gravel or wet grass the front will wash out very quickly if it breaks traction.
I just watched the Thai MotoGP race. The lean angles and speeds they go in pouring rain are impressive. Having said that, I'm glad my KTM has anti-lock brakes with a rain setting.
Many of these situations can be explained by cold tires or old tires. New tires don't take as much time anymore to break in, but you'll still want to wait a few rides before testing the limits.
When you're braking, the front fork will absorb a lot of the energy which takes progressively more energy. But in my opinion it's best to gear down when approaching a more risky situation to dramatically decrease your stopping distance. In cases where you can expect cross traffic, it's especially useful to slow down a little and position yourself in such a way that you will have more time and distance to move out of harm's way.
I was a little surprised to hear about motorcycles and cars being about equal in stopping. But I always assumed the opposite of that myth. I figured that since motorcycles have much less mass than cars, therefore less inertia, then they must be able to stop faster. Like cars vs. heavy trucks vs. trains.
I just learned something.
Great video! Thank you for those tips
A couple of extra things to bear in mind concerning cars. Modern cars tend to have wider and softer tyres than older cars, so the tyre grip levels have increased significantly. (My Evo 6 has the same tyre size as a basic Honda Civic).
The UK braking distances are based on an old Ford Anglia and max at around 0.7g, modern cars hit 1.0g or higher.
Tyre grip isn't just a simple linear relationship as there are other things happening, not 2 rigid materials interacting. Think Race tyres have different compounds - why?
Drag cars hit 4.5g off the line - how?
How do you generate friction levels above 1?
The first is interlocking, this is where the tyre deforms into the road surface, so softer tyre or rough surfaces improve the grip. This is the reason shellgrip is applied at intersections / junctions. When rain is added to the equation is then becomes a matter of can the tyre disperse enough water to allow full interlocking to occur? Water fills the bottom of the cracks / hole in the road surface and lifts the tyre a fraction. As the tyre losses this battle, i.e. it can't shift all the water, then you rapidly lose the interlocking effect. When you lose all of this interlocking you are starting to aquaplane.
The other is a collection of weak atomic forces that form temporary bonds between the surfaces, but due to the size of the contact patch these add up into measurable increases. This is shown by how a race track can 'rubber in' and the rubber to rubber bond is significantly higher that rubber to tarmac. These forces almost disappear with water.
Modern ABS does not just prevent wheel lock, there's also EBA or emergency brake assist. This detect an unusually rapid brake application and applies the brake even quicker up to the point of ABS intervention. This means cars reach there ultimate braking rate much quicker than bikes and can easily exceed 1.0g, something a bike can't. This also eats into the riders reaction time.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 you threw me off with the skin cancer joke🤣🤣💀💀. Seriously,.. great content. . Very informative. Thanks you
The other problem leading to the "don't combine turning and braking" myth is overzealous instructors and students who fail to distinguish the range from the street. On the training range we advise strongly against combining traction demands. What sometimes is not communicated effectively is that beginner training classes focus on fundamentals, getting underway, shifting, turning, and stopping. Putting those fundamentals together into techniques is something that new riders need to be encouraged to practice and be prepared to incorporate as they gain experience in the sport.
I always thought "never use your front brake", "don't break in corners", "dont ride in the rain" was contrary advice since I do all of those on my triathlon bike.
I've had afew bikes over the years, including a 900 Ducati. however my 40km commuter Honda 125 was passed by everything on the road,but I caught up to them all at the next traffic light.
A wet road is fine, its greasy one which I find being slippy
In the Netherlands, they use red asphalt in certain spots. It's as slippery as slush. Can't believe it's legal.
It is often hard to tell the difference until it is too late.
@@nonyabusiness4151isn't that for cycles;atleast in my country
@rutukedarbhagwat1746 They use them at intersections, too. Also, you still have to cross the bicycle path.
@KurtFrederiksen My commute has me passing these intersections 6 times per day, 5 days per week, and 50 weeks per year. Not counting bicycle paths.
It's not a speed thing it's a turning thing, I literally have to take those corners at 5km with my feet down. They are that slick when wet or cold. Just how slow are we supposed to go in Nederland anyway? God forbid we drive like normal people.
Last week, I was going straight in the rain at about 80-100. I have to cross two patches of red asphalt. My back tire breaks traction and begins to slide. Just from going straight over wet red asphalt.
I have no tattoos but I can totally relate to the free skin removal part. Just been on a motorcycle accident recently. A stray dog got in the way while I'm riding home who suddenly make an unpredictable turn right straight on my lane and then the unfortunate thing happened. Knees gashed pants ripped, shoulders and chest in pain for two weeks or so. Again may this be a lesson to fellow riders. Be vigilant on the road and drive safe always... 🤕
5:55 this is very complicated situation, but to break it down, the less weight transfer you have (back to front in braking or side to side in cornering, in a car) the better overall grip you have available. Therefore, a car will typically out brake a bike, other factors being equal (tire compound and heat, tire patch to inertia, etc.) because the length of the bike will often transfer 100% of the weight to the front tire, where this pretty much never occurs with a car, although it can in cornering. This is also the reason why a car can usually out corner a motorcycle on a skid pad, again, all other factors being similar.
One caveat being, that once a tire begins to skid, it might still have some grip, but it is nearly as little as the grip it has on the pavement when it is no longer in contact with the pavement at all. So… if your rear brakes lock up on a car, you’re just about in the same situation as when the rear wheel leaves the ground on a bike.
also: cars have much better ABS systems and car tyres are just better at displacing water at wet situations.
I bought my 120 hp bike as first one not because its safe, but because it will not be boring after 1 month of riding, dad told me so, and im fully agree on that.
Also i have a question, one time i needed a hard brake from 160 km/h, i started to progressively pull a lever but on a half way frontwheel started to wobble and i afraided it, so i released it and with 90 km/h moved out from hazard. Could that wobbling leave me in trouble if i progressed even further?
IDK what exactly you mean by wobbling. It could've been that you kept your arms too stiff during braking. Check this video about common braking mistakes, maybe you'll find the answer there! ua-cam.com/video/CvC63Iq5ecc/v-deo.html
I learnt how to break corners because I live in a hill with many curves, it helps to control inclination riding down but it's tricky
The main reason for my reluctance to use my front brake when learning was from too many skin rashes when riding a bicycle as a youth. It didnt take long for me to realise motorcycle tyres and brakes are different beasts altogether.
The second myth is actually correct. Motorcycles are worse at braking than cars, without accounting for the driver.
Here are a few 60-0 mph braking tests, taken from Cycleworld
RSV4: 130.6 feet
S1000RR: 127.7 feet
Panigale V4 SP2: 128.7 feet
Now for a few large cars:
F150: 129 feet (Motortrend)
Odyssey: 112 feet (Motorweek)
Camry: 118 feet (Motortrend)
The best high performance motorcycles with professional riders are about as amazing as braking as the best selling pickup truck in the USA with a soccer mom stomping on the brake pedal. Any smaller/lighter car blows away every motorcycle on the market. The problem isn't the contact patch, it's flipping the bike over. This is why cars can accelerate muuuuuch faster than motorcycles too.
IDK, comparing results from different tests (done at different temperature on different pavement) is not a fair comparison. The clip at 5:55 shows both the bike and the car braking on the same surface and they brake pretty much the same. Also cars don't accelerate faster, certainly not muuch😁
Here is a brake test from 100mph between Super Duke and 911, on the same pavement. The difference is pretty much within a margin of error. ua-cam.com/video/KsxeDbbgmj8/v-deo.htmlsi=qI-Ey3qfUYpHb2yO&t=684
@@MotoControlEn Well, there's a video idea mate. Go ahead and make one, I'd love to see the results that you produce!
5 different bike models/types with 5 riders of different skill levels rotating between them versus 5 car types with 5 drivers. Do a head to head bracket scoring system between all of them to add a little fun to the video and have people bet on who they think will win.
@@h.d.h Maybe when this channel have 5M subscribers I will have enough resources to pull off such a video😅
Honestly 127 vs 118 is more less the same. Assuming that your example is the only valid in the world. And I doubt it is.
A newbie took me out because he didn’t think he could brake in a corner.. hit me head on, him on a crotch rocket, me on a cruiser.. he overcooked the corner and didn’t even try the brakes, just went right in to me and broke my bones
Great helpful video matey 😝👍🍹🕺
With regards to power, I live in an urban region in Asia and vehicle density on road is much higher than much of US or Europe.
When I was riding 300+ cc bike, there were times when I wished I had some reserve HP to accelerate out of a hairy situation - usually when some car is blindly inching into my lane, while other cars were to my sides and behind. Without HP, my options were maneuvering to the side or slowing down, which meant that I had to rely on other road users around me to be alert and give way. As a rider, putting my safety in other people's hands is basically seeking death.
I have a more powerful bike now (too powerful tbh), and I appreciate having that reserve HP which translate to more and better maneuvering paths. But I agree, for a new rider, less can be more.
Dress for the Slide, not the Ride
Dress for the slam, not the Gram
Your avatar being that twitch emote of the girl holding a cup of tea makes this comment better for me 😂