Lean IN or Lean OUT - Which is Safer?
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- Опубліковано 18 лис 2023
- Marc Marquez vs Thomas Chareyre, Quinn Redeker vs Richard van Schouwenburg. Ryan F9 vs Motojitsu. How come that everybody uses different riding technique and which one should you, me or any other normal average rider use to ride better? To answer this question at first we will discuss the reasons why some riders hang off the bike in a first place, then we will see which of those reasons can be applied to a normal everyday riding and which technique is safer and better overall.
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On Moto Control channel you will find videos about motorcycles, motorcycle riding techniques, tips & tricks and online motorcycle training for beginner and advanced riders!
A little info about me. My name is Andrei Bodrov, originally I'm from Moscow, Russia, and now I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Back in Moscow I was a motorcycle instructor and creator of Moto Control Beginner & Advanced motorcycle rider courses, which quickly became the most popular courses in Moscow (well, at least the advanced one😁). My advanced training course makes emphasis on slow speed riding techniques at first (such as good clutch and throttle control, proper riding posture, proper use of vision, etc.), then proceeds to more advanced techniques (such as aggressive braking, trail braking, maximal lean angle). The course incorporates a lot of exercises from DOSAF slow speed riding (similar to police rodeo like motorcycle training in USA), braking and cornering exercises and motogymkhana style riding. And now, since I actively learn English - I decided to post some useful videos for both your and mine practice!😉
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Since everyone writes this, it's necessary, I suppose 🤷, so here we go. Disclaimer: Ride at your own risk, you are responsible for your own safety. Me, Andrey Bodrov and my channel, Moto Control disclaim any liability incurred in connection with the use of riding techniques from this channel. Use common sense, wear full protective gear and ride in a safe and predictable manner!
#motorcycle #motorcycles #moto - Авто та транспорт
In case you wish to check out my courses, here are some links:
"King of the Road" 2-month online course: moto-control.shop/subscription/
BEGINNER rider video course: moto-control.shop/product/moto-control-beginner-rider-video-course/
ADVANCED rider video course ("Training Routine"): moto-control.shop/product/training-routine-video-course-ebook/
*I thought this was a Ryan F9 video and thought he was doing to worst Italian accent ever.* That's so KGB of you, tovarishch.
"As free love was going out of fashion and demand for good quality rubber was increasing..." -- taking a leaf out of Fortnine's playbook 😂
Checkmate!
That's where he hooked us. Always in every video puts in a constructive joke or intentionally use awkward words. That's his greatness.
Pity the joke doesn't actually make sense. What do you think free love means?
@@flippy66It means pull out of every girl, raw doggin', no rubber needed.....if you are lucky.
@@flippy66before AIDS
Normal, speed limit level street riding, lean with the bike. Super high speed cornering, lean more than the bike to keep from scraping hard parts an lifting a tire. Slow speed maneuvering, tight cornering, slaloms, or low traction situations, counter lean to have faster change in direction, tighten up your corners or keep weight over the tires so they dont wash out in gravel. Its a matter of how, what, an where you are riding.
Yes, this. I'm not sure why this is a controversy.
Bravo dude!!!...excellent explaination..
I think that F9 made their point quite understandable: Counterbalancing just as hanging-off are perfectly fine given the appropriate situations.
Long and fast corners benefit from hanging into the corner, giving you better shift of mass into the inner side while allowing the bike to stay low without exceeding max. lean angle.
Counterbalcing is generally better for fast paced shift of lateral momentum, in tight corners that force you to slow down considerably, plus in any situation where you need an elevated leveled viewpoint.
Just as a MotoGP rider would certainly have issues in city traffic with „hanging-off-only“, a police motorcyclist performing „counterbalancing-only“ wouldn’t get the best experience and performance out of a twisty hill pass. Both techniques are valid with respect to their intended purpose - and you should try to master BOTH as good as possible.
In contrast: Greg Widmar (MotoJitsu) has simply turned into a pretentious, thin-skinned, preachy media personality, explaining only little of his rationale and simply marking his point by, well, marking a point. Additionally, his expensive Amazon-printed exercise ‚books‘ are mere 30 page abstracts of general concepts you can get everywhere on the internet for free. I have grown quite disillusioned by the guy as time went on. Only little insight to be gained from his videos recently.
Yeah his narcissistic attitude is awful
I think you’re overweighting the form and personality over MJ (Greg) message. Sometimes he’s somewhat too blunt and direct on some controversial topics but I think his message can’t be more clear!
I’m learning a lot from him and care more about the message and can’t care less about style.
About the books, it’s just a way to have some income for him and they’re useful. That argument that you can find anything on the internet is true, but for almost everything, but that’s doesn’t make any less useful. And, anyway, he’s everything on his videos for free!
I bought his app to have his exercises that I find useful to practice AND a way to say thank you for his effort to pass on his knowledge to others (yes, I know, he makes money from UA-cam views, but this “thank you “ is more personalized).
I follow him and some others who I find to be useful and seem to have plenty of knowledge, being one of them Moto Control - Andrey. He has a completely different style, and each of them have different styles! Sometimes the style helps, sometimes not! F9 is a great content creator, i consider that he has substantial knowledge, but sometimes his style gets much in my way, maybe because English is not my natural language or something and because of that style i reach the end of some video and find myself confused “what a hell was the message/ conclusion about”? Solution: try to view again the video, see the transcription, research elsewhere the subject to gain more traction about it to be able to understand better.
So, my point is, if I find that some person has knowledge that can benefit me I try to concentrate more on the message and less or nothing what is around it.
This channel has the message and a very accommodating, friendly and even funny style. Very good.
@@carlostomas3698 TLDR… you surely invested a lot of time into defending a man who after all is a complete stranger to both of us.
I criticized his character, yes. That’s what besides knowledge makes a good tutor. He might have been a great (yet narrow-minded) drill instructor in the USMC, fair enough, but that attitude doesn’t traverse well into civilian life.
@@ElDuderino999 No, not at all! It was just to make a point. I think he doesn’t need anyone to defend him, just that I really appreciate his teaching in my recent initiation on motorcycles.
The long text is just my style ☺️ and a problem. I suspect that my brain is incapable of transmitting a message in a short form…I don’t know, but I’m already old to become better at this, I guess 😂
Something I missed and to maintain my style: I find interesting that you didn’t read my post but, however, you felt the need to “reply”. What’s wrong with us? Trying to defend someone I do t know, you replying to someone you also don’t know and reply to something you didn’t read.
Yeah, the world is really crazy, indeed!
@@ElDuderino999 And you invested an equal amount of time in slandering him. I recommend that you avoid being a condescending cretin in comments.
As a matter of fact MJ recommends counter leaning in slow turns and criticizes riders for focusing too much on body position and leaning. One might disagree with his presentation style but he is ten times the rider F9 is. He makes virtually no mistakes on twisty roads on all kinds of motorcycles.
As a new rider this video is brilliant - thank you. Confirms what I was starting to suspect - that there’s a spectrum from extreme counter-leaning to extreme hanging off the bike through a turn and most road riding is probably best done in a relatively neutral position with counter-balancing and leaning into turns being tools available to use appropriately depending on the bike, speed, road conditions etc and NOT techniques to be used indiscriminately just because a bunch of other people told you to do them because they’re always best or look cool 👍
I've watched a lot of this guy's content. I'm yet to fault anything that he says. There is plenty of other content out there that you are probably best off avoiding.
And welcome to the world of riding! Start slowly (literally) and work your way up. A neutral position and getting used to leaning the bike is a very good starting point. That said, don't be afraid to swivel the bike under your hips at low speed. As for hanging off? I'm not there and I'm not going! Enjoy!
Counter leaning is really handy when riding around town at lower speeds - it's much quicker to lean the bike over while counter leaning in order to make a quick turn - up to about 40 mph. But, I don't counter lean when the road is wet and slick, instead I stay neutral.
I really only lean to the inside for fun, or when doing canyon rides when the pace picks up. Even then, I never go fast enough to lean over so much at high speeds that the pegs scrape - AFAIK, peg scrapping is only for the track.
I go with what he calls "Mirror kissing" (10:25 min) where you just move your top half over so your head is in line with the inside mirror. Works good on the road (plus you don't look like a tool trying to get your knee down on the road).
I also use more the movement of the upper body, specially if the road is wet and it’s more pronounced if it’s cold and just started doing my ride.
Normally I use just neutral body position as it’s more than enough for my usual pace. In slow speed stuff I may counter-lean, depending.
Good luck!
Practice.
A lot.
Not in traffic.
Keep the dirty side down.
The homage to Tasting History was appreciated.
What is the world coming to when we discover UA-camrs might exaggerate a point, take an extreme view, or even deliberately disagree with each other - and for what? Oh that's right... money. I'm shocked. Like all information, whether you pay for it or get it free off the internet, you have to use your own brain and assess it for your own situation.
That's why I like this video - explanation and reasoning is presented, and then you are left to make your own judgement on how it might apply to your riding. That's why I keep coming back to this channel, though I do enjoy a laugh with fortnine too occasionally.
Hello from Rhode Island! I had little experience riding when 20 years ago I used too much rear break while trying to stop. No helmet, severe concussion, and I had a verbal stutter for about a year. I love your channel because it is definitely helping people stay safe.
I have much appreciation for your time and effort. Thank you.
Been riding for 60 years. Raced speedway and roadracing. Military dispatch rider. Uses different styles. Think it's important to change riding style depending on situation.
Conclusion neutral is more than enough for everyday riding :)
One of the best and most complete videos about ridding techniques I have ever seen. You called I points I could think of, including the alerts about street riding (real world dangers). Thanks a lot!
You are the MASTER of Moto Lesson Videos. I have learned so much from you and you’re making a huge difference in my experience. Keep up the GREAT work and easy to learn content.
Gotta agree with F9, couter-lean is probably best on the street most of the time because it offers the easiest path to change direction in the event of unexpected obstacles or road conditions such as sand, gravel, bad drivers, or deer. Neutral body position can be better when you can see all the way through the turn with no cars or animals present. Hanging off the low-side of the bike has no place on the street - you're too committed to a single course and have very limited ability to react to changing circumstances.
I generally lean my body in and keep the bike more upright when roads are wet. Stay pretty much neutral when it's dry. He didn't mention wet pavement.
He didn’t need to,
he talks about lean angle, and he clearly shows on the picture how little you gain by hanging off, it’s almost nothing, it won’t affect you that much on the street.
This is a good point, especially with cross terrain or off road tires on slippery surfaces. It is frightening how quickly you can lose traction on rear tire using trail type tires on wet roads. We ride off road in winter here in Canada, ice or hard packed glazed snow will put you on the ground very quickly with too much bike lean. But if you can make it to the medium packed snow, its just spectacular riding ;)
Stay gold.
What a time to be alive, from primitive suspension to active electronic suspension systems. To imagine that Isle of Man was even more dangerous way back then 🤯
Great info Andrey! 🤙
You really are the greatest teacher, A! I'm proud to have been with ya since you were around 10K subscribers and, whenever I hear conflicting info, always come back to you for my educational "center." I'm a daily rider/commuter and own a '21 H-D and '23 H-D, have been licensed for 3yrs, took the full YCRS a year ago, and, when I first started, had 1:1 with a moto-officer whom I credit with giving me the ultimate foundation. But of ALL the UA-camrs, sole credit goes to you for teaching me U-Turns. Everyone else preaches the same (head turn, friction zone, and rear brake), but you did a video a couple of years ago on a H-D and discussed how the initial move is really just a counter-steer and you need to get the bike to full-lock to make the tightest U-Turns. That was my "lightbulb moment" where everything fell into place.
This video is demonstrative of your innate ability as a teacher, because you're not negating either technique; instead, you're advocating for the benefits of both, while simultaneously advising when they SHOULDN'T be used, and in the end advising a safe, sound strategy for road-riding. Thank you for all the knowledge you share!
one thing I constantly do whenever I am on a fairly calm road is to try and dodge the pot-holes and or sewer covers... less upset of the wheels plus I am also training my counter-balancing and for anyone who happens to be watching, having them ponder my sanity. It's actually fun and because of it, I think I am slightly more comfortable with it.
I dodge potholes for no reason EVERY day, lol!
Nice mini game
As with many things in life…it depends. As an owner of several bikes I find the cornering style is largely dependent on which bike I’m riding. In general my Honda Magna cruiser works best when the bike is ridden with a good serving of counter balancing pushing the bike down, my Goldwing in neutral position regardless of load except for really low speed riding, and my lightweight sports machines with neutral to leaning into the turn. Forward or aft positioning is also bike dependent.
It’s a great topic for exploration and your vid is fantastic.
One of the best motorcycle riding advice in youtube
Beautifully made and communicated. This is exactly how I feel about the whole deal. Fantastic video! Thank you for making it.
Awesome channel keep rockin bro 🔥🔥
I was in middle school when I learned to ride a bike in the late 90's. I never knew such techniques existed till very recently. Watching these videos I realize that I use counterbalancing a lot in city traffic, bending the bike between knees while staying upright and leaning the bike in very long corners and twisties knowing I don't have to break in the middle. I think if you ride enough you will figure out the right technique that works for you. We don't have to be robots and learn the same techniques, we should rely on our brains and instincts and maybe we will come up with new ingenious ways to approach these.
You've been red pilled...
same here bro.
Got my first VFR400 when I was a freshman in 99 and never had to learn.
Keep riding and your body does everything.
It was interesting to find out the handlebars turn opposite when turning high speed corners.
PPL who never rode bikes would never understand lol
Thanks for the great video!
I am pretty much neutral on commuting and slower touring. If I up the pace a bit, mostly when touring, then I lean my upper body and my head slightly forward into the turn.
I use counterbalancing only on U-turns or other slower maneuvers like lane splitting in traffic.
Awesome coverage of proper leaning in different situations. Thank you.
Love your videos, and yes i watch a lot of the others but you explain things in a way i understand, thanks!
Very nice video!! My mentors who trained in Japan emphasizes to do lean with first before doing lean in and out as an intermediate rider because once you got the correct body position for leaning with the bike its easier to adjust inwards or outwards depending on the situation as you so clearly describe in you video. Very nicely explained!
Production quality of your videos is very good!
As an old rider, thank you for your video(s). Indeed you need to actually know all the techniques and use them appropriately, depending on bike, situation etc.
Also love that you keep your native language colour while speaking very correct English.
Kevin Cameron did a really good article on big bang 500 two strokes to help stop high sides as the new radial tires would immediately let go when the limit was reached. This video did a great job of explaining leaning. Counterbalancing helps hide chicken strips too.. 😊
That is the best analysis of the various steering techniques I have ever seen, awesome…. I have learned something today…
To perforce it even better, different styles used by different eras fine-tuned to today's version for the best of both rider and ride efficiency. I think irrespective of one's body position, the key is to ride with more energy, less fatigue and less pain in the joints at the end of day. Brilliant one Andrei..
Wait, are you suggesting this answer is not as simple as black or white? That perhaps somehow the truth lies somewhere in the middle? The grey even? That in some instances one side is right and in others, the other side is right? Are you suggesting compromise??? Whoa, revolutionary!!! I wonder what else we could apply this incredible philosophy of taking the best parts from each side and meeting in the middle to. 🤔 imagine the possibilities….
u give the most practical advice. thank you.
Your videos are amazing. I always come out learning cool techniques to make my ride more enjoyable and safer. Thanks-
Vry well explained buddy, versatility to adopt evry style according to the situation is the real key.. 👍👍👍
The subject is well taken apart. Super material. It's like debating which party is better.... Christmas or Easter? Depending on the situation, motorcycle, speed, etc. Add Moto Gymkhana and staying in line with the motorcycle and without putting your knees out.
I really love your ironic sense of humor, Andrey. 😂
All the best from Brazil. ✌
As with most things, the answer is "it depends". This video is very well done, thanks!
Leaning out is also useful on loose or wet surface. If you are leaning in and you loose traction, you are done. You just flip, face into the road. If you are leaning out, you can actually keep some control, pull the bike up and save it (sometimes). Although it depends on bike type and weight. If the bike is much more heavier than you, you are not pulling the bike up, you are pulling yourself down.
Thanks for making this video. After having completed advanced courses years ago that taught minimizing lean by leaning off, I had a system that worked. I subsequently took quite a large break from riding and, upon my return, saw Fortnine's video. The result was going with some good riders who highlighted that I'd built a bad habit with counter leaning at speed. I've since completed more advanced courses and now use counter leaning when I'm going slow or off-road, and I lean in at higher speeds at the track to avoid scraping parts of the bike in corners.
My point being that Fortnine made it sound like it was perfectly fine to do at speed and it resulted in me getting a habit that made me more dangerous a rider.
I love your videos! You present your points excellently!
Hey Bro, you are by far the best instructor. Thanks for the videos, they are very useful, indeed. 😎
Very good video my friend! Finally someone who makes sense.
Very well explained. Thank you for I have learned something new. All the best.
Best motorcycle channel right now👏👏👏
I went around a curve a little too hot on my 2007 V-Star 1300 (with a passenger no less) and I got the opportunity to learn the easy way lean limits of a cruiser.
I scraped my floorboard. Now I'm gun-shy and I'm trying to learn techniques of better cornering with less lean angle.
NOT BEING DRAMATIC, I've seen plenty of videos of people crashing because they scraped hard parts and the metal became a fulcrum lifting the tire off the pavement.
At slow speed I can really see the benefits of counterbalancing, BUT at higher speeds you better lean in to avoid scraping especially on bikes with lower ground clearances.
Excellent video! Audio 10/10. Videography 9/10. Script/messaging 10/10. Entertainment value 10/10. You have come a long way in the last 24 months and are continuing to improve. So glad that you have kept with it! Putting on my engineer’s hat, body position is all about available tire grip versus CG elevation (z-axis strategy). This is made abundantly clear at a moto-cross where lateral tire grip is very low; the riders’ CG is almost always directly over the bikes longitudinal CG plane (except when aerial where the tire grip is zero and all forces are inertial and ballistic).
If you are hanging off the motorcycle on a public road, you are going too fast or just showing off. Counter-balancing has uses in slow manoeuvres, especially with heavier motorcycles, and emergency manoeuvres. Otherwise, at sane speeds, you really don't need anything special - just keep a neutral body position.
Motorcycling advice is usually dispensed on the basis of techniques built on experience. Your videos bring some fresh air with a rarely seen understanding of the physics of the bike.
Hey, nicely done! Cool approach mate👍👍👍
I enjoy your brilliant (and funny) wideos immensely.
A fine presentation that overcomes the rigid thinking of either/or dogmatists. Rather, use the technique appropriate for the task at hand. Once again, every rider has to ride his own ride, not blindly follow UA-cam gurus.
Glad you explained where & why each method works. A good rider should be able to do both--visibility & nimbleness critical for city/traffic, but open road turns, leaning may be better--pending your bike & tires! 😅 And skill!
When I was getting my license I would have appreciated this video. To pass a license I had to pass a handling test which had a tight radius turns in it. I struggled to do them and my driving teacher gave me no pointers how to do it. I was just supposed to figure it out myself. I did practice it a lot and I did pass the test. I just think this would have helped me a great deal. Same goes for counter steering. I learned that years later from a youtube video.
Very entertaining, informative and interesting explanation of the styles
Completely depends on the speed and the road/track!🤘🏼
Great video, thanks Andreyev! I like your wit.
Super, super well done video. Clear and simple I believe it is a good milestone on the way on ending the useless debate on “which is best”😊
Best video on this topic I have seen!
Great explanation, I watched fortnine, and a few responses, this is very clear and sensible explanation . 😊
great serie. production and quality became much better!
Excellent 👏💯 really enjoyed the video, and just suscribe
Sometimes (if not always) safety is more important than efficiency (faster driving).
When driving in a city vision of the road and mirrors, the ability to change directions easily and the protection of your body are very important subjects.
Therefore the lean is quite more risky when some car or pedestrian or pet comes in your way, especially in a corner.
A more neutral approach is the best bet and can be changed depending the situation.
Police officers prioritize safety not the fastest technique. Every person has it's priorities.
You are the best ! I love your channel and the other ones you mentioned. You and Jerry are the best teachers.
I'm his fan too🙂
@@MotoControlEn You two are the best.
Thanks mr Checkov. Interesting stuff well presented.
So... Everyone is right and wrong... Imagine that! And then there's also personal preference to cloud the waters.
Thank you for your analysis Andrey.
Cheers from the Netherlands!
Finally a full explanation
besides a nice material delivery, I enjoy your jokes a lot!
great video!
Good stuff to know. I noticed that I instinctively lean to keep my center of gravity above the wheels. It's often wet and slick around here, it makes me feel like I'm less likely to slide. I'm not going very fast though. I imagine at a certain speed, it's more important to keep your weight in plane with the bike.
Everly is a well-balanced view, showing the importance of both styles of riding counter balance and getting a knee down.
Awesome video giving different points of view 👌
Great video, it confused me seeing people obsessed with getting knee down on the streets, while isle of man TT riders never seemed to get close.
Subscribed
Excellent video, thank you.
body position, hanging of, neutral or counter.. only depends on the bike you ride and how fast you ride it.. as someone who started on a moped, rode hard enduro with a CR250.. being holingan on MT09 to carving mountain twisties with CBR1000rr.. body position changes with your bike type, your speed and surface you ride on(AND weather)... my advice is to take as many riding schools as you can afford and practice practice practice.. not to only get better and faster but SAFER rider
I alternate all the techniques I know to get and stay comfortable and flexible with them and have fun.
Excellent explanation!
Amazing video as always! One question remains for me though: why do flat trackers stand on the bike, and don't hang out? Is it right to say that hanging out is the best body position to prevent a slide, while standing on the bike is the best way to deal with a slide?
One of the best approaches I ever seen about this subject and with an history context.
Great! Really great!
Just one problem: I’m always very jealous about the spaces you can get to practice.
Move to Argentina and ride with him.
@@usernamemykel Really?! You’re truly a smart guy! Never thought about that. Genius…
...and you won't have to learn a new language, Carlos
@@usernamemykel I don’t speak Spanish!
Never said that you did. @@carlostomas3698
Great video, thanks!!
Just doing basic training i noticed lean or counter lean depended on the situation and speed more than anything, slalom / figure 8's had a more upright position and going round a long bend at road speeds naturally led to more lean...
To me it was always a question of how far over you can lean the bike without hitting the pegs or exhaust. Counter leaning for example does not work very well on a cruiser as you cannot lean the bike over very far without hitting pegs or footboards, so it actually makes some sense to try to lean over the bike and keep the bike more vertical.
Counter leaning does have one huge advantage on the road. You can see better and further along a corner because your head is higher and not as shifted over towards the apex.
But your head is shifted into the direction you need to see. If you're tucked inside on the left, you're taking a left turn.
Here in New Zealand (as I'm sure is the case elsewhere), there are many unsealed roads and leaning into the corner on such roads proves problematic. So to be able to use the correct technique for the conditions and speed of travel is essential.
Ryan F9 is a legend; MotoJijitsu is awesome; but this guy is a Master. His control on any bike is world class.
Hi Motor Control, I love to watch your video. Very entertianing and practical. But I still have the difficulty to make a good U Turn with my Honda PCX. It must be my fear of falling down. Please advist.
I learned the "lean-in" technique when I was young, along with rear brake only. I don't and I don't think anyone hangs outside like you demonstrated. I go low, body on the side of the curve and slide my butt half off of the seat. the bike goes from bucking to smooth.
Not sure why someone would say "your wrong because Ryan said..."; pretty sure Ryan said both were valid, just that for the average mortal doing average mortal riding counter balancing had more advantages; specifically in town\city with lots of tight turns, things to avoid, pedestrians, and other surprises. As a new rider I find I counter balance far more often than I lean in but when I hit a deceptively tight turn too quick I didn't double down on counter balancing and go in the bushes; I leaned in, and boy did I lean in :D.
Being new I do tend away from highways in favor of low speed roads, dirt, and trails but the few times I had been on the highway at speeds in the 100kmh range I find I hug my bike and lean in more.
Love it... Thank You!
1A! And a further reason to make counterbalancing is the small silhouette you have. I often experienced it when I drove in Italy or France in the countryside on very small roads. Sometimes you came around a corner or a curve and than there is a Fiat Ducato coming, driven from a local driver in the middle of the road. Counterbalanced you swing through the little gap on his left side, but without fear because you are so slim,
I am your die heart fan. Your teaching style is awesome. I recommend your channel to the new riders out there. I advocate for safe motorcycle riding, your channel gives me inspiration for the work I do. So Keep it up, give us more interesting videos and Keep us inspiring. Thanks mate. I am from Australia.😀
die hard
Last year, after almost 20 years of riding, without ever hanging of, I bought my first sportsbike ever. And I found another benefit of leaning: It just feels safer, when you are going fast and at the same time makes you feel much more at one with your motorcycle. And it is so much fun, why did I not try it earlier?
I always lean in when traction is a concern, I just don't go full knee-down because it's not necessary. Both methods can provide benefits depending on the situation! Love doing both because they're both very much a blast to do :)
I usually counter lean cause drz lol
Interestingly enough, modern tires are harder in the middle and softer toward the edges. So by leaning you're moving towards a harder, more tractionless part of the tire.
@@lpls Yes but you also have MORE tire making contact with the ground when your motorcycle is completely upright. The difference in compound isn't drastic enough to make leaning it in more beneficial. A bigger contact patch will mean better traction, even if the rubber compound on the edges is softer.
@@tudm91 that's an interesting point. Why do you? I can't see why the contact patch would be greater when upright.
@@lpls It has to do with the design and shape of the tires. "At extreme lean angles, the patch becomes smaller and crescent shaped as the very edge of the tread is used."
How much the contact patch is reduced depends on the tire profile, but regardless you will see reduced contact on almost all motorcycle tires. This is why I lean more than the bike when it rains.
Damn you are skilled handling the bike and make it look so easy :D
When I do moto gymkhana, I tend to stay upright and allow the bike to independently lean under me. Decoupling like that reduces the moment of inertia, making the bike more agile and easier to tip in and out, which is handy when the cones are close together. In 360s though, I'll lean in (not necessarily pull out my knee, mind) with the bike because I havr the time to do that, so I can get the benefit of a tighter turn that way.
On the road I mostly maintain a neutral stance. It's not a track, there's no need to drag knee. Besides, if you're going that fast where I ride, there's no way you can see far enough ahead.
great channel keep it up
For fast cornering, leaning in is the way to go. The more you lean, the less the bike has to, keeping the contact patch nearer the centre of the tyre. It also keeps the centre of gravity low, keeping the mass of the bike along the line of COG, leading to the contact patch. Plus. If it goes oily side up, you are only inches from the ground, making jettisoning the bike a lot easier.
For slow speed maneuvering, staying as vertical as possible wins, allowing faster changes of direction.
All in my opinion of course
depending on conditions i use all of above except the knee out - i Like my knees not damaged in a crash
excellent video on the topic.
Just subscribed after running across onto your video.
I haven't ridden daily since I was 18 or 19 years old. But leaving women and sex out of it, nothing feels as good as a motorcycle between your legs. More than 50 years later, I still feel the same.
The most fun times I've ever had were on a motorcycle. Even though I was actually a good rider, I never entered the realm that you apparently inhabit. We just rode and had fun. We were glad to leave science at the schoolhouse. That's not a slam, just life in the 60s and 70s.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and found it super educational. You young guys are such brilliant, bad-ass riders. Despite my trouble keeping up with your dialog (and accent), I learned considerable.
Thanks for a great educational video.
Offroad, counter leaning provides more grip and balance. It is the only safe way to do it.
On bigger bikes, ones that would scrape or touch the ground, sometimes leaning with the bike can keep the bike more upright, allowing for tighter/faster turns where counter leaning would bottom out the pegs (similar to older bikes).
Counter is safer in the wet, like when riding road. Prevents low siding.
One the street leaning in is important for rain and situations when you need more turn but want to limit lean for traction. Neutral is good when you don’t need make quick changes. Counterbalance is great for slow turns and slow tight turns.