*This video has been re-edited and reuploaded due to an out of place audio clip. Sorry about that. I have marked the original video as unlisted so that you can still read the comment section which featured plenty of interesting lore discussion. I've received so many wonderful comments on that upload, it'd be a shame to lose them all! Thank you for watching! If you have any questions regarding Dark Souls' lore, please feel free to share them in the comment section. I will be reading and answering them.
Dude you’re nuts, and when I say that, I mean I’ve never heard the exact angle that you’re coming from here, your format is organized and well put together and my god after elden ring came out I’ve missed souls discourse so much, keep the Great work up! I love your theories
So cool to be getting fun and unique takes on the lore of such an old game. I understand that some people don't enjoy the obtuse way that From tells stories but you don't see endless essays coming out on a daily basis about Uncharted or something like that
Although From is often vague in their writing, I do think there are definitive answers for the vast majority of things. They're just well hidden behind layers of subtext, and in-universe characters misinterpreting events, lying to the player, etc. Thanks a lot for watching!
@@finnfeaver1196 i recently heard a quote from some author (i think it was Kafka but im not sure) regarding the endings of stories; basically saying that the best stories are those that choose to leave the endings ambiguous. If a story fully explains itself and there's no mystery left, there's no reason for the reader to ever think about that story again after they've finished it. I think this is a great summation of why these games have such staying power
Velka is Gwyn's X-wife. She was removed from the annals for her betrayal and most traces of her were banished to the Painted World. She was the former Darkmoon deity; the reason that Gwyndolin was raised as a woman. She was also a scientist, who shared the Royal Archives with Seath . Logan styles himself as a witch, the pointed hat being the "signature of a heretical sorceress". His tin crystallisation catalyst is also evidence of his link to Velka; the tin banishment catalysts are used by Velka's Sealers and the tin Darkmoon catalyst is used by Velka's successor as Darkmoon deity, Gwyndolin.
I agree with most of the things you've said. Velka was Gwyn's wife, and she was considered a 'heretic/rogue goddess' for her transgressions towards Gwyn. She was likely the one who raised Gwyndolin as a woman too. As for her link with Seath and Logan, I partially agree with. She's definitely involved in Seath's experiments, as evidenced by Gwyndolin (and her being hinted to be related to Yorshka and Priscilla as well, of course.) She's working with the primordial serpents to restore the world's cycle. I know of the Tin catalysts of Gwyndolin and the New Londo 'Velka sealers', however I'm still not sure of what to think regarding Logan's, if I'm being honest. It could be that he abandoned his sorcerer's catalyst (which is made of wood) for a metal more compatible with crystallization.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Late reply but the Tin Crystallization Catalyst features Platonic Solids on both ends. A dodecahedron on the base representing aether (the fifth (V) element), and an icosahedron towards the tip representing water (a V-shaped molecule). Aether can be compared to the abyss; a void, whereas water may hint at the etymology of crystal (krustallos is Greek for ice) or prefigure the Abyss' connection to the Deep
I read the situation the same, but I would assume she was goddess of the moon as a whole since the children of gods seem take elements of the parents domain or a variation on them; sunlight, darkmoon and the firstborn's lightning said to be born from this union though gwyndolin and percilia's inheritance of domains from gwyn could have been disrupted by Seath's experiments? or they might truly be bastards born from Velka granted mercy for their innocence in their mother's crime
One note came to mind. At 9:28 you focus on how it says Leeroy was "produced" by the way of white but 1. From soft games regularly have mistranslated words, i think Lokey Lore disagreed with the translation of "derivative fraud", for example 2. "Produced" is a flexible word that can be used very poetically. It doesn't definitively mean they "created his undead nature through production", but could rather mean that they "discovered the first undead in the way of white" and this was just said in a fancy way (you could say for example that England 'produced' its first case of covid, even if what you're trying to convey is that someone just happened to catch covid in England) I still think your interpretation holds some water and what I'm saying doesn't negate it, just a comment on the dangers of focusing too much on a single word, at least without considering the full, complex context Very much enjoying the video. Always great to see new takes on this that obviously have a lot of thought put in, and that make me rethink everything I've seen
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts! I am aware of most of the differences between localization and fan translations of the japanese script. However it's not just the word 'produced' that informs my view, quite the contrary; it's the greater context surrounding the Way of White that lead me to think that the word 'produced' has that meaning. For example, we know that Gwyn and Seath have created the curse, and that the walls around the world of men were built precisely to prevent its spread; we know that the curse is spread mainly through death; we know that one of the most important objectives of the Way of White is to conduct undead hunts, as to spread the curse; and we know that the maidens were originally tasked with producing undead, which is what we see happen in the opening cinematic of the first game, and the reason for Anastacia's punishment. With all this and more in mind, it's more than clear that Leeroy was produced by the Way of White and tasked to travel to Lordran to spread the curse. We also know that Nito has a covenant for spreading death, that he's the lord of the Catacombs, that he's even fabricated miracles for his paladins, and that Leeroy's body is found near his covenant area (in fact, he invades us to prevent us from reaching Nito's lair unless we know the secret entrance used by the gravelord paladins.) And I could go on! All of this lore is expressed in different forms, and is very fascinating to uncover. Text is only one of them. In most cases, localization 'changes' mean more or less the same thing as the japanese script. For example, one subscriber pointed out how Velka is refered to as a "heterical god" as opposed to "rogue goddess". But both descriptors mean the same thing - she opposed Gwyn, who was the "Chief of the Gods", which earned her the status of 'heretical/rogue'. I have seen many misinterpretations that arise out of a hyper fixation on the localization. And I'll share something here that I'll also mention on a future video, but it's likely that most of the changes between the texts aren't a product of incompetence, as many people seem to think, but are a result of the translators having to handle a slightly 'outdated' script. DeS' translation, which is the clunkiest one, is clear indication of that. But even so, in most cases, the changes are very minimal and not very significant. And in a small minority of cases, it's possible that portions of the script were later revised for the japanese version as to not reveal too much information and spoil the secrets, even! I hope this is enough to satisfy you! :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't consider the full context in this situation, I just saw you put a lot of emphasis on the word 'produced', so I thought you might consider it critical evidence. I've seen people get really hung up on words or phrases before without considering that words can have surprisingly different meanings. Evidently you have many different observations informing your theories Honestly, I don't even know what to make about mistranslations and outdated scripts, it's all so complicated. Just finding someone you can trust to have sufficient enough knowledge of Japanese to understand the nuances in the original language to translate is difficult enough. I love seeing all these intelligent theories from different people contributing to the cultural pool of knowledge and hopefully getting the souls community closer and closer to the truth. You're obviously passionate, and I hope you keep it up
An aside from the main video, I believe Miyazaki is a fan mystery novels or at least mysteries/conspiracies I heard this 1st in a video from the Last Protagonist on Bloodborne. Miyazaki was speaking on the Imposter Iosefka character. Miyazaki found that character compelling because she was like a detective trying to unravel the mystery of the Night of the Hunt. I think he lamented that the Imposter was not more popular. Miyazaki said he has a thing for the “scholarly investigator” in his games. I think your channel fits one of Miyazaki's favorite archetypes really well
Just one point, I don’t think Gwyndolin disguises himself as Gwynevere. After killing him the illusion of Gwynevere and the sunlight are still in place and operational. I think it’s more like a self-sustaining illusion magic encompassing all of Anor Londo
Gwyndolin most definitely acts as Gwynevere; through her image, he guides the chosen undead to the next step of his journey. That doesn't mean of course he is physically there when you interact with Gwynevere's illusion. :)
Would be cool to see you do this with Elden Ring at some point. That quote from the Hermetic Arcanum is filled with concepts that show up in ER. It would be neat to see how it might tie together.
I agree. We could use your help; the lore is full of speculation at this point, and the dlc upset the mostly agreed upon time-line.@@thefirelinkconspiracy
Does anyone besides me feel like the lore of Elden Ring is just... Kinda scuffed? It feels like nobody can come to a consensus on anything, even (or especially) the major events in the timeline. Whereas with dark souls and bloodborne there's more or less a general understanding of what happened, and it's mostly only minor details that still remain unknown. But tbf, i got into the games kinda late (roughly the same time ds3 came out), so maybe i just missed the part where everyone was figuring all that shit out?
@@yellowsaurus4895 Don't worry about that. A big surprise is coming soon. :) And by the way, I personally don't think there's any correct consensus at all for any From Soft game's lore.
@@yellowsaurus4895 because it's an allegory for real life and a commentary on religion, idols, and God's. It's deeply layered with multiple different interpretations just like real life. I think the point is that the narrative doesn't matter; we are free to live and worship as we choose, as long as it doesn't create conflicts. Unfortunately in our reality, just like eden ring, it's caused many atrocities and people will keep that cycle going. Foolish.
On "Who built Sen's fortress?" I do think that while the snake men occupying the fortress is a good indicator, that alone might not be enough. Sure he may have made the snakemen but that doesn't prove he built the building. One thing I think about however is, who else would be smart enough to do it? There only other place I can think of with tech on the level of Sen's is Anor Londo & the Duke's Archives. This may also be a bit of a stretch on my part but what's with those gears & other clockwork parts in his tall prison area. Sure it's been dismantled for the prison but I could never help but think of clock pendulums when looking at the bladed pendulums in Sen's. Could some of the tech from the Archives been used to help build the fortress? There's also the fact that there's that crystal warrior guy who I know some lore theorists credit as the inventor for several items and contraptions in the game. Either way, even if Seath himself did not oversee the building of the fortress, it's clear that he plays a pivotal role in it. It's also where we see the first Mimic, which can only be found in Anor Londo & the Archives (outside the few in the Oolacile Township). Speaking of what's the deal with Mimics btw? TY for the video!
Thanks a lot for commenting! Yes, the snakemen are not the only indication that Sen's Fortress was built by Seath. There are other minor hints that are not as explicit. :)
Sen isn't a character, its a mistranslation, the original title afaik is "Fortress of a thousand traps" and Thousand translates to Sen, so the translation team mistook it for a name when it was a number.
See, this is the problem with these games, so much lost meaning in translation, cut content that would fit in the lore very well and answer some questions, etc. Not to mention these mistakes are very rarely fixed.
Thanks for commenting! Seath was still the one behind the Fortress' construction. I have seen this argument before, but I decided to run with what we get in the localization. The name "Sen", in this case, is just a minor clue, more like a funny observation. The main point is the Fortress' purpose and other hints such as the serpent-men. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I still do agree with the Seath theory, Hawkshaw even posited that Logan intentionally let himself be captured so Seath would bring him to his archives
Velka was the queen of lothric. She is the prototype for Marika and has many children with many different fathers in an experiment to find the perfect heir. Yorshka Priscilla and Gwyndolin are her and Seath's children. They wanted to create a child of dragons who would inherit their everlasting properties and be able to serve as perpetual kindling for the age of fire. EDIT: Lordran not Lothric
Thanks for commenting! Velka was definitely not the queen of Lothric; Gwynevere (Rosaria) was. Velka had already sacrificed herself by that point, as is told to us by the Rings of Sacrifice. However it's also clear that Lothric worshiped Velka as a deity; we see statues of her not only in the Cathedral of the Deep, but in Lothric castle and other places as well. Yorshka and Priscilla aren't "her and Seath's children" in a literal way, but yes, they are alchemical creations of Seath that were likely made with Velka's soul, much like Gwyndolin himself. This is the pay-off of his experiments to create a crossbreed. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy apologies, I meant the queen of lordran not lothric. haven't discussed the souls games in quite a while. but yes she was queen of lordran and wife to gwyn. the dark moon ruled alongside the sun albeit from behind the scenes.
Watched the original but still stopped for a like. I have a theory for you which is not mine I dont remember where I read it: Aldrich could be Smough. With Aldrich defeat we get Smough hammer plus they share the same room and joy in eating people. As Ornstein may at some point decided to leave Anor Londo so did Smough, but when one reached the Archdragons Peak the other embraced the White Church
Thanks a lot! I've covered this before, but the more likely explanation is that Aldrich has reincarnated Smough's soul. We're shown that the souls of the sovereign are reincarnated by Fire-linking, and yes, Aldrich shares many similarities with Smough, and we're able to purchase his armor set upon slaying Aldrich. I think I talk about this on my Way of White video, if you're interested. :)
Londor = Lande d'Or = Golden Land The same idea as "Orland" from the end of JoJo Stone Ocean; it's a kind of afterlife - a part of the Abyss colonised by Gwyn and Velka in the Springtime of their reign.
I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. All evidence points to Londor being the land of the future, as in, what we see in DS3's opening cinematic. If you want me to, I could elaborate on this, although I have it explained in the video as well. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Golden Land is an Ash of War in Elden Ring, a callback to Londor. The Ringed City is the Capital of Londor, Pilgrims of Londor access it via the Dreg Heap, which is found in Lothric's future. Harald Knights are earlier Lothric Knights that warped there via a beheading ritual.
@@core-nix1885 I disagree with this. The Ringed City isn't the capital of Londor, it's a different place entirely. Londor is the land of the hollows due to its place in the future, meaning only old, shriveled, hollowed men inhabit it. The pilgrims journey from that future to the past, which is why some are lost at the Dreg Heap, an abyssal swamp born of the converging worlds. This is why we see them journeying in a ruined, ash-covered land in the opening cinematic, and why their destination is Lothric. Only the bridge connecting to Lothric was shut down/demolished by Sulyvahn to prevent Fire-linking and the coming of the 'worthy heir' to usurp the flame.
The pilgrims of Londor aren't necessarily from Londor, similar to how Anri of Astora isn't actually from Astora. The "seedbed covering" is a Lindelt tradition, visible on the cleric set and on the hollow clerics of the Ringed City. Note also that the Ruin Sentinels' forebears reached the Ringed City, as did Zullie and Alva.
@@core-nix1885 I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. The pilgrims of Londor are definitely 'of Londor', and Anri does come from Astora as well. :)
Age of Night? Bathed in moonlight? Not in a land of gray crags and arch trees covered in fog. Arguably, the sun itself only emerged after the first flame.
The Age of Ancients was, more or less, night time. And yes, you're correct, the Age of Fire is the day time. Only after the sun had emerged, after the men had conquered the surface, the Age of Fire began. :)
Liking the video so far but there is a problem. Midir is the youngest of dragons not the oldest, he was an egg during the dragon wars and was raised by the royal family and friends to seal away the dark
Thanks for commenting! As far as we know, Midir wasn't "an egg during the dragon wars", only the latter part is true. That does not mean, however, that he isn't particularly old; as the description of the Old Moonlight sorcery implies, he's still from before the Age of Fire, which means he could've been abducted during the dragon war; while we face many descendants of the Archdragons, Midir is the one who most closely resembles them.
@@thefirelinkconspiracywould Seath not be considered the most ancient dragon we interact with? Or is it implied he is a younger dragon than the ancient dragon species?
@@TheMidnightVendettaI would say no since old moonlight suggests it’s older than seath’s moonlight I believe midir was implied to be therefrom the beginning
It is difficult to say if Rosaria -IS- Gwynevere, or merely another daughter of Gwynevere. The Dancer also possesses miracle transpositions of the Princess of Sunlight, but is depicted as a daughter. As is Gertrude. Rosaria has the boing boing chest though, and as depicted through the ranged heal miracle, the rumors of Gwynevere’s endowments were true. So really it’s a matter of the reader wanting the lore to be open and closed with the third game, or the devs being intentionally ambiguous to allow for more revelations in a fourth game.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I believe we have more than enough evidence that points to Rosaria being Gwynevere. Gwinevere's miracle is just one small part of the whole picture. We know that the real Gwynevere, along with the other so-called "gods" have fled Anor Londo (and migrated to Lothric.) We know that Lothric's royal lineage is obsessed with producing a worthy heir, and that they've cursed all of the queen's offspring. 'Rosaria' is a very unfitting name for a member of the royal lineage, even if we take Oceiros' and Occelotte's naming scheme into account; it souns like an alias, like Caitha is to Velka. But this is a minor hint as well. Rosaria's role is yet another example of dramatic irony - possibly his favorite trope - in Miyazaki's writing. A figure that was once reveered as a deity associated with bountifulness and sunlight is now reduced to a damp, dark creature with a cult of worm-men worshipping her 'rebirth' powers. This is due to the various curses inflicted upon her to produce the 'worthy heir'. Leonhard's questline points to her being Gwynevere too, as he travels to Anor Londo to get her soul to Gwynevere's chamber.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Unless we have a description or dialogue alluding to "Rosaria" being an alias, it's suggested to take her name at face value. Grub men and fingers have had no previous association with Gwynevere. Soothing Sunlight does, and we can correctly assume she is atleast an heir to the princess of sunlight, ilke some kind of goth daughter. And we all know Miyazaki also likes to create "Long lost relatives" such as Filianore, or the entirety of the Elden Ring DLC. I would also be satisfied with the idea of Rosaria being the true queen of Lothric, if not for the fact that this would wrap up the lore rather neatly. But until we get more evidence, Rosaria, is Rosaria.
@@Garl_Vinland Dark Souls rarely ever tells us something like you're implying it does. In fact, most of the time we're presented with in-universe interpretations of events, and often we're lied to by other characters. A character either having an alias, or acting as some other character, or having its name be 'revealed' as a plot twist is a very common trope in Miyazaki's games. It's a core part of the mysteriousness of their narratives. I can give you plenty of examples all the way from Demon's Souls, such as the Big M being the Flamelurker, and the Old One being the God of the Church. In DS1, we have Gwyndolin acting as Gwynevere and possibly as Velka; Nito acting as Allfather Lloyd; and by DS2, many of DS1's characters go by obter names, such as the so-called 'gods' of the multiplayer ring. Caitha, for example, is an alias of Velka. In Bloodborne we've got the imposter Iosefka, and so on. The more likely explanation regarding Rosaria, the one that perfectly fits with every bit of information we get, and takes contextual clues and such into account, is that she's Gwynevere, who was severely abused in order to produce a worthy heir. The bizarre grubmen are directly connected to the idea of her being a figure associated with 'bountifulness' and 'soothing'; it's an ironic/dramatic subversion of that. She's a motherly figure even in that grotesque scenario.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in the video. Londor is the ruined land of the future we see in the opening cinematic of DS3. It's where the pilgrims begin their journey to the past from.
Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately my microphone's recording quality is quite bad. I can't afford to buy a good one at the moment. I plan to write articles about these lore topics which go in more detail and don't rely upon my old microphone.
*This video has been re-edited and reuploaded due to an out of place audio clip. Sorry about that. I have marked the original video as unlisted so that you can still read the comment section which featured plenty of interesting lore discussion. I've received so many wonderful comments on that upload, it'd be a shame to lose them all!
Thank you for watching!
If you have any questions regarding Dark Souls' lore, please feel free to share them in the comment section. I will be reading and answering them.
Dude you’re nuts, and when I say that, I mean I’ve never heard the exact angle that you’re coming from here, your format is organized and well put together and my god after elden ring came out I’ve missed souls discourse so much, keep the Great work up! I love your theories
@@t-mango2491 Thank you!!
So cool to be getting fun and unique takes on the lore of such an old game. I understand that some people don't enjoy the obtuse way that From tells stories but you don't see endless essays coming out on a daily basis about Uncharted or something like that
I love the way they do it. Ambiguity fuels the imagination
Although From is often vague in their writing, I do think there are definitive answers for the vast majority of things. They're just well hidden behind layers of subtext, and in-universe characters misinterpreting events, lying to the player, etc.
Thanks a lot for watching!
@@finnfeaver1196 i recently heard a quote from some author (i think it was Kafka but im not sure) regarding the endings of stories; basically saying that the best stories are those that choose to leave the endings ambiguous. If a story fully explains itself and there's no mystery left, there's no reason for the reader to ever think about that story again after they've finished it. I think this is a great summation of why these games have such staying power
Velka is Gwyn's X-wife. She was removed from the annals for her betrayal and most traces of her were banished to the Painted World.
She was the former Darkmoon deity; the reason that Gwyndolin was raised as a woman.
She was also a scientist, who shared the Royal Archives with Seath .
Logan styles himself as a witch, the pointed hat being the "signature of a heretical sorceress". His tin crystallisation catalyst is also evidence of his link to Velka; the tin banishment catalysts are used by Velka's Sealers and the tin Darkmoon catalyst is used by Velka's successor as Darkmoon deity, Gwyndolin.
I agree with most of the things you've said. Velka was Gwyn's wife, and she was considered a 'heretic/rogue goddess' for her transgressions towards Gwyn. She was likely the one who raised Gwyndolin as a woman too.
As for her link with Seath and Logan, I partially agree with. She's definitely involved in Seath's experiments, as evidenced by Gwyndolin (and her being hinted to be related to Yorshka and Priscilla as well, of course.) She's working with the primordial serpents to restore the world's cycle.
I know of the Tin catalysts of Gwyndolin and the New Londo 'Velka sealers', however I'm still not sure of what to think regarding Logan's, if I'm being honest. It could be that he abandoned his sorcerer's catalyst (which is made of wood) for a metal more compatible with crystallization.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Late reply but the Tin Crystallization Catalyst features Platonic Solids on both ends.
A dodecahedron on the base representing aether (the fifth (V) element), and an icosahedron towards the tip representing water (a V-shaped molecule).
Aether can be compared to the abyss; a void, whereas water may hint at the etymology of crystal (krustallos is Greek for ice) or prefigure the Abyss' connection to the Deep
I read the situation the same, but I would assume she was goddess of the moon as a whole since the children of gods seem take elements of the parents domain or a variation on them; sunlight, darkmoon and the firstborn's lightning said to be born from this union
though gwyndolin and percilia's inheritance of domains from gwyn could have been disrupted by Seath's experiments? or they might truly be bastards born from Velka granted mercy for their innocence in their mother's crime
One note came to mind. At 9:28 you focus on how it says Leeroy was "produced" by the way of white but
1. From soft games regularly have mistranslated words, i think Lokey Lore disagreed with the translation of "derivative fraud", for example
2. "Produced" is a flexible word that can be used very poetically. It doesn't definitively mean they "created his undead nature through production", but could rather mean that they "discovered the first undead in the way of white" and this was just said in a fancy way (you could say for example that England 'produced' its first case of covid, even if what you're trying to convey is that someone just happened to catch covid in England)
I still think your interpretation holds some water and what I'm saying doesn't negate it, just a comment on the dangers of focusing too much on a single word, at least without considering the full, complex context
Very much enjoying the video. Always great to see new takes on this that obviously have a lot of thought put in, and that make me rethink everything I've seen
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts!
I am aware of most of the differences between localization and fan translations of the japanese script. However it's not just the word 'produced' that informs my view, quite the contrary; it's the greater context surrounding the Way of White that lead me to think that the word 'produced' has that meaning. For example, we know that Gwyn and Seath have created the curse, and that the walls around the world of men were built precisely to prevent its spread; we know that the curse is spread mainly through death; we know that one of the most important objectives of the Way of White is to conduct undead hunts, as to spread the curse; and we know that the maidens were originally tasked with producing undead, which is what we see happen in the opening cinematic of the first game, and the reason for Anastacia's punishment. With all this and more in mind, it's more than clear that Leeroy was produced by the Way of White and tasked to travel to Lordran to spread the curse. We also know that Nito has a covenant for spreading death, that he's the lord of the Catacombs, that he's even fabricated miracles for his paladins, and that Leeroy's body is found near his covenant area (in fact, he invades us to prevent us from reaching Nito's lair unless we know the secret entrance used by the gravelord paladins.) And I could go on! All of this lore is expressed in different forms, and is very fascinating to uncover. Text is only one of them.
In most cases, localization 'changes' mean more or less the same thing as the japanese script. For example, one subscriber pointed out how Velka is refered to as a "heterical god" as opposed to "rogue goddess". But both descriptors mean the same thing - she opposed Gwyn, who was the "Chief of the Gods", which earned her the status of 'heretical/rogue'. I have seen many misinterpretations that arise out of a hyper fixation on the localization. And I'll share something here that I'll also mention on a future video, but it's likely that most of the changes between the texts aren't a product of incompetence, as many people seem to think, but are a result of the translators having to handle a slightly 'outdated' script. DeS' translation, which is the clunkiest one, is clear indication of that. But even so, in most cases, the changes are very minimal and not very significant. And in a small minority of cases, it's possible that portions of the script were later revised for the japanese version as to not reveal too much information and spoil the secrets, even!
I hope this is enough to satisfy you!
:)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't consider the full context in this situation, I just saw you put a lot of emphasis on the word 'produced', so I thought you might consider it critical evidence. I've seen people get really hung up on words or phrases before without considering that words can have surprisingly different meanings. Evidently you have many different observations informing your theories
Honestly, I don't even know what to make about mistranslations and outdated scripts, it's all so complicated. Just finding someone you can trust to have sufficient enough knowledge of Japanese to understand the nuances in the original language to translate is difficult enough.
I love seeing all these intelligent theories from different people contributing to the cultural pool of knowledge and hopefully getting the souls community closer and closer to the truth. You're obviously passionate, and I hope you keep it up
An aside from the main video, I believe Miyazaki is a fan mystery novels or at least mysteries/conspiracies
I heard this 1st in a video from the Last Protagonist on Bloodborne.
Miyazaki was speaking on the Imposter Iosefka character. Miyazaki found that character compelling because she was like a detective trying to unravel the mystery of the Night of the Hunt. I think he lamented that the Imposter was not more popular.
Miyazaki said he has a thing for the “scholarly investigator” in his games.
I think your channel fits one of Miyazaki's favorite archetypes really well
I agree! One of his confirmed inspirations is the Song of Ice and Fire book series, which is all about political intrigue and conspiracy.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy wow, and Miyazaki got to make a game with G.R.R.M. How inspiring
Just one point, I don’t think Gwyndolin disguises himself as Gwynevere. After killing him the illusion of Gwynevere and the sunlight are still in place and operational. I think it’s more like a self-sustaining illusion magic encompassing all of Anor Londo
Gwyndolin most definitely acts as Gwynevere; through her image, he guides the chosen undead to the next step of his journey. That doesn't mean of course he is physically there when you interact with Gwynevere's illusion. :)
Would be cool to see you do this with Elden Ring at some point. That quote from the Hermetic Arcanum is filled with concepts that show up in ER. It would be neat to see how it might tie together.
While I don't have any plans for it at the moment, I'm not opposed to the idea of making Elden Ring videos in the future. :)
I agree. We could use your help; the lore is full of speculation at this point, and the dlc upset the mostly agreed upon time-line.@@thefirelinkconspiracy
Does anyone besides me feel like the lore of Elden Ring is just... Kinda scuffed? It feels like nobody can come to a consensus on anything, even (or especially) the major events in the timeline. Whereas with dark souls and bloodborne there's more or less a general understanding of what happened, and it's mostly only minor details that still remain unknown. But tbf, i got into the games kinda late (roughly the same time ds3 came out), so maybe i just missed the part where everyone was figuring all that shit out?
@@yellowsaurus4895 Don't worry about that. A big surprise is coming soon. :)
And by the way, I personally don't think there's any correct consensus at all for any From Soft game's lore.
@@yellowsaurus4895 because it's an allegory for real life and a commentary on religion, idols, and God's. It's deeply layered with multiple different interpretations just like real life. I think the point is that the narrative doesn't matter; we are free to live and worship as we choose, as long as it doesn't create conflicts. Unfortunately in our reality, just like eden ring, it's caused many atrocities and people will keep that cycle going. Foolish.
On "Who built Sen's fortress?" I do think that while the snake men occupying the fortress is a good indicator, that alone might not be enough. Sure he may have made the snakemen but that doesn't prove he built the building. One thing I think about however is, who else would be smart enough to do it? There only other place I can think of with tech on the level of Sen's is Anor Londo & the Duke's Archives.
This may also be a bit of a stretch on my part but what's with those gears & other clockwork parts in his tall prison area. Sure it's been dismantled for the prison but I could never help but think of clock pendulums when looking at the bladed pendulums in Sen's. Could some of the tech from the Archives been used to help build the fortress? There's also the fact that there's that crystal warrior guy who I know some lore theorists credit as the inventor for several items and contraptions in the game.
Either way, even if Seath himself did not oversee the building of the fortress, it's clear that he plays a pivotal role in it. It's also where we see the first Mimic, which can only be found in Anor Londo & the Archives (outside the few in the Oolacile Township).
Speaking of what's the deal with Mimics btw? TY for the video!
Thanks a lot for commenting! Yes, the snakemen are not the only indication that Sen's Fortress was built by Seath. There are other minor hints that are not as explicit. :)
Just wanted to say thanks for everything you’ve uploaded so far it’s all very digestible and good food for thought
Thank you! And if you have any questions, feel free to post them here, and I'll reply to you as soon as I can.
Love from Brazil! I'm fascinated by this series. Can't wait for more
Thank you! I'm glad you've been enjoying these!
Sen isn't a character, its a mistranslation, the original title afaik is "Fortress of a thousand traps" and Thousand translates to Sen, so the translation team mistook it for a name when it was a number.
See, this is the problem with these games, so much lost meaning in translation, cut content that would fit in the lore very well and answer some questions, etc.
Not to mention these mistakes are very rarely fixed.
Thanks for commenting! Seath was still the one behind the Fortress' construction. I have seen this argument before, but I decided to run with what we get in the localization. The name "Sen", in this case, is just a minor clue, more like a funny observation. The main point is the Fortress' purpose and other hints such as the serpent-men. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I still do agree with the Seath theory, Hawkshaw even posited that Logan intentionally let himself be captured so Seath would bring him to his archives
@@xuanathan Yes, this was definitely the case!
Another great video! Thanks alot from New Zealand at the bottom of the world
Thank you! I hope you've enjoyed it!
Top of the world mate. Not our fault everyone's maps are upside down!
Can you make a video about the serpents?
Are you French? Your vids are awesome, pronunciation/accent unique to me but great for narration and calm stories
Thanks a lot for your kind words! I'm glad my accent doesn't bother you xD
Velka was the queen of lothric. She is the prototype for Marika and has many children with many different fathers in an experiment to find the perfect heir. Yorshka Priscilla and Gwyndolin are her and Seath's children. They wanted to create a child of dragons who would inherit their everlasting properties and be able to serve as perpetual kindling for the age of fire.
EDIT: Lordran not Lothric
Thanks for commenting!
Velka was definitely not the queen of Lothric; Gwynevere (Rosaria) was. Velka had already sacrificed herself by that point, as is told to us by the Rings of Sacrifice. However it's also clear that Lothric worshiped Velka as a deity; we see statues of her not only in the Cathedral of the Deep, but in Lothric castle and other places as well.
Yorshka and Priscilla aren't "her and Seath's children" in a literal way, but yes, they are alchemical creations of Seath that were likely made with Velka's soul, much like Gwyndolin himself. This is the pay-off of his experiments to create a crossbreed. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy apologies, I meant the queen of lordran not lothric. haven't discussed the souls games in quite a while. but yes she was queen of lordran and wife to gwyn. the dark moon ruled alongside the sun albeit from behind the scenes.
Watched the original but still stopped for a like.
I have a theory for you which is not mine I dont remember where I read it: Aldrich could be Smough. With Aldrich defeat we get Smough hammer plus they share the same room and joy in eating people. As Ornstein may at some point decided to leave Anor Londo so did Smough, but when one reached the Archdragons Peak the other embraced the White Church
Thanks a lot!
I've covered this before, but the more likely explanation is that Aldrich has reincarnated Smough's soul. We're shown that the souls of the sovereign are reincarnated by Fire-linking, and yes, Aldrich shares many similarities with Smough, and we're able to purchase his armor set upon slaying Aldrich. I think I talk about this on my Way of White video, if you're interested. :)
Londor = Lande d'Or = Golden Land
The same idea as "Orland" from the end of JoJo Stone Ocean; it's a kind of afterlife - a part of the Abyss colonised by Gwyn and Velka in the Springtime of their reign.
I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. All evidence points to Londor being the land of the future, as in, what we see in DS3's opening cinematic. If you want me to, I could elaborate on this, although I have it explained in the video as well. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Golden Land is an Ash of War in Elden Ring, a callback to Londor.
The Ringed City is the Capital of Londor, Pilgrims of Londor access it via the Dreg Heap, which is found in Lothric's future.
Harald Knights are earlier Lothric Knights that warped there via a beheading ritual.
@@core-nix1885 I disagree with this. The Ringed City isn't the capital of Londor, it's a different place entirely. Londor is the land of the hollows due to its place in the future, meaning only old, shriveled, hollowed men inhabit it. The pilgrims journey from that future to the past, which is why some are lost at the Dreg Heap, an abyssal swamp born of the converging worlds. This is why we see them journeying in a ruined, ash-covered land in the opening cinematic, and why their destination is Lothric. Only the bridge connecting to Lothric was shut down/demolished by Sulyvahn to prevent Fire-linking and the coming of the 'worthy heir' to usurp the flame.
The pilgrims of Londor aren't necessarily from Londor, similar to how Anri of Astora isn't actually from Astora.
The "seedbed covering" is a Lindelt tradition, visible on the cleric set and on the hollow clerics of the Ringed City.
Note also that the Ruin Sentinels' forebears reached the Ringed City, as did Zullie and Alva.
@@core-nix1885 I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. The pilgrims of Londor are definitely 'of Londor', and Anri does come from Astora as well. :)
Age of Night? Bathed in moonlight? Not in a land of gray crags and arch trees covered in fog. Arguably, the sun itself only emerged after the first flame.
The Age of Ancients was, more or less, night time. And yes, you're correct, the Age of Fire is the day time. Only after the sun had emerged, after the men had conquered the surface, the Age of Fire began. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Lets agree to disagree.
Liking the video so far but there is a problem. Midir is the youngest of dragons not the oldest, he was an egg during the dragon wars and was raised by the royal family and friends to seal away the dark
Thanks for commenting!
As far as we know, Midir wasn't "an egg during the dragon wars", only the latter part is true. That does not mean, however, that he isn't particularly old; as the description of the Old Moonlight sorcery implies, he's still from before the Age of Fire, which means he could've been abducted during the dragon war; while we face many descendants of the Archdragons, Midir is the one who most closely resembles them.
@@thefirelinkconspiracywould Seath not be considered the most ancient dragon we interact with?
Or is it implied he is a younger dragon than the ancient dragon species?
@@TheMidnightVendetta Oh yeah, sure! It's just that Seath is an albino, deformed dragon. I wasn't thinking of him when I said that.
@@TheMidnightVendettaI would say no since old moonlight suggests it’s older than seath’s moonlight I believe midir was implied to be therefrom the beginning
It is difficult to say if Rosaria -IS- Gwynevere, or merely another daughter of Gwynevere. The Dancer also possesses miracle transpositions of the Princess of Sunlight, but is depicted as a daughter. As is Gertrude.
Rosaria has the boing boing chest though, and as depicted through the ranged heal miracle, the rumors of Gwynevere’s endowments were true.
So really it’s a matter of the reader wanting the lore to be open and closed with the third game, or the devs being intentionally ambiguous to allow for more revelations in a fourth game.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I believe we have more than enough evidence that points to Rosaria being Gwynevere. Gwinevere's miracle is just one small part of the whole picture.
We know that the real Gwynevere, along with the other so-called "gods" have fled Anor Londo (and migrated to Lothric.)
We know that Lothric's royal lineage is obsessed with producing a worthy heir, and that they've cursed all of the queen's offspring.
'Rosaria' is a very unfitting name for a member of the royal lineage, even if we take Oceiros' and Occelotte's naming scheme into account; it souns like an alias, like Caitha is to Velka. But this is a minor hint as well.
Rosaria's role is yet another example of dramatic irony - possibly his favorite trope - in Miyazaki's writing. A figure that was once reveered as a deity associated with bountifulness and sunlight is now reduced to a damp, dark creature with a cult of worm-men worshipping her 'rebirth' powers. This is due to the various curses inflicted upon her to produce the 'worthy heir'.
Leonhard's questline points to her being Gwynevere too, as he travels to Anor Londo to get her soul to Gwynevere's chamber.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Unless we have a description or dialogue alluding to "Rosaria" being an alias, it's suggested to take her name at face value. Grub men and fingers have had no previous association with Gwynevere. Soothing Sunlight does, and we can correctly assume she is atleast an heir to the princess of sunlight, ilke some kind of goth daughter. And we all know Miyazaki also likes to create "Long lost relatives" such as Filianore, or the entirety of the Elden Ring DLC.
I would also be satisfied with the idea of Rosaria being the true queen of Lothric, if not for the fact that this would wrap up the lore rather neatly. But until we get more evidence, Rosaria, is Rosaria.
@@Garl_Vinland Dark Souls rarely ever tells us something like you're implying it does. In fact, most of the time we're presented with in-universe interpretations of events, and often we're lied to by other characters. A character either having an alias, or acting as some other character, or having its name be 'revealed' as a plot twist is a very common trope in Miyazaki's games. It's a core part of the mysteriousness of their narratives.
I can give you plenty of examples all the way from Demon's Souls, such as the Big M being the Flamelurker, and the Old One being the God of the Church. In DS1, we have Gwyndolin acting as Gwynevere and possibly as Velka; Nito acting as Allfather Lloyd; and by DS2, many of DS1's characters go by obter names, such as the so-called 'gods' of the multiplayer ring. Caitha, for example, is an alias of Velka.
In Bloodborne we've got the imposter Iosefka, and so on.
The more likely explanation regarding Rosaria, the one that perfectly fits with every bit of information we get, and takes contextual clues and such into account, is that she's Gwynevere, who was severely abused in order to produce a worthy heir.
The bizarre grubmen are directly connected to the idea of her being a figure associated with 'bountifulness' and 'soothing'; it's an ironic/dramatic subversion of that. She's a motherly figure even in that grotesque scenario.
I don’t get it… so where’s Londor? You kind of explain it without explaining it.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in the video. Londor is the ruined land of the future we see in the opening cinematic of DS3. It's where the pilgrims begin their journey to the past from.
Sorry, but your accent can be hard to hear along side “sissing”.
It can still be adjusted in audio settings or cut and edited in Audacity.
Thanks for your feedback.
Unfortunately my microphone's recording quality is quite bad. I can't afford to buy a good one at the moment.
I plan to write articles about these lore topics which go in more detail and don't rely upon my old microphone.