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Y-DNA Haplogroup - I-S17250 - Slavic DNA / Cucuteni-Trypillia culture
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2022
- Todays video takes a look at my 2x great-grandfather - Theodorus Fedyszyn paternal Y-DNA Haplogroup.
A group called I-S17250, The age of this mutation is estimated at roughly only 1,800 years - This group is a subclade of 12a1b which was a patriarch line of two separate subclades - L161.1 and L621.
For the purpose of this video it is the L621 Line that we are interested in and the one we will focus on in this video.
The following chart shows the Phylogenetic Tree of Haplogroup I2.
You will see on the chart that Haplogroup L621, Falls within the Mesolithic Period and as we follow that lineage down you will see that S17250, is one of three subclades that belong to CTS10228.
S17250 is a Slavic Haplogroup that broke away during the Iron age period.
Haplogroup I2a1b-L621 This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 is also known as I2a-Din (for Dinaric). The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo-Kőrös-Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic cultures in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture. From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs. Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (possibly) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the CTS10228 subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe).
#IS17250 #YDNA #Haplogroup
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You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge! Truly appreciate all the information you are teaching! Thank you very kindly!
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
Hi Stephen, again this was so interesting and so well researched and narrated. I find it fascinating to learn about where we all originated from, and love hearing about all the different groups and sub-groups. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. We hope you and Yhana have a great week.
Thank you guys, I Find it fascinating too, there is still lots we don’t know about the movement of people and DNA, but each year certainly brings more understanding. Its an interesting subject 😉😊 catch up soon guys and have a lovely week 😊
The epicenter of this civilization is in Vinca, Serbia. On the other side of the Danube river is the older Starcevo Culture. And the oldest is in Lepenski Vir 10.000 BC. Vinca location is 14km from Belgrade. If you like to visit, let me know. :)
Great video! Greeting from I2 PH908 from Montenegro. There is one theory about the origin of I2 people that participated in ethnogenesis of Slavs. It says that those people came with Bastarnae tribe in western Ukraine. Bastarnae were Germanic tribe.
Bastarnae theory looks plausible in this case. Hope there will be more samples and data in the future to investigate the S17250’s origin topic
indeed, but we still can't be 100% sure.
@@yuriyfedyshyn1862 but we Slavs with I2a have closest relatives in modern-day Germanic peoples so it is possible
I - Facts. Haplogroup I developed from IJ in Europe. It's the only indigenous (native) paternal European haplogroup that goes back to the upper paleolithic (Cromagnon). Cheddar Man was I2. I1 is younger than I2. The oldest I1 remains were found along the Danube in Austria. The oldest I2 remains were found in Southern Switzerland dated to 13k years. Haplogroup I is Proto European not of Proto Indo-European (R1a, Rlb Steppe, Eurasian) in origin. I2alb Is17250 among other subclades developed from these anceint European natives that existed in Europe before them. Ethnicity is based on cultural and linguistic affiliation, not genetic origination. The Steppe people assimilated the IS17250 haplogroup on their Westward expansion. The I2-M26 exception are the Sardinians. They were isolated from Indo-European expansion.
Thank you very much, for all this extra information, it’s much appreciated 😊 all the help people can get to understand their origins is a good thing.
Genealogy and genetic DNA are fascinating subjects
Another interesting video in your DNA series, Stephen. Once again, you've really done your research! We enjoyed watching but I won't begin to tell you I completely understood. I recently sent my DNA sample into Ancestry and are looking forward to seeing the response online. At that point I will try to muddle though, referring back to your videos in this series. I'm sure quite often! Thanks for taking the time to compile this information and sharing it, Stephen!
Thank you Dave and Kathy for such a supportive comment 😉😊 its much appreciated, hopefully it won’t take to long to get your own results through 😉😊 catch up with you both soon ❤️😉😊
I am Serb with I-S17250 haplogroup. Greetings and thank you.
Another great episode. I said before it's amazing how people migrate all over the world and can be traced back to individual origins like these. You've collected so much info in your research.
Thank you Donna, for the lovely comment, its much appreciated 😉😊 sending my best to you and catch up soon
Great video,really nice to see people talking about HG,which is not so popular today..
Greeting from Croat who is I-PH908 branch.
Thank you for the lovely comment, I find the origins of DNA and even their connections to long forgotten cultures fascinating 😊 greetings from England 🏴 buddy 👍😊
My son is I-S24121. I have a difficult time finding any information about it. He has German, French, Irish, British and a little Greek/Balkan DNA from his Dads side
Really interesting as always :). Really enjoyed watching another episode in your series!
Thank you guys, sending our best and catch up soon 😉😊
Hi Stephen. Another great information and go back pretty far back. And where your grandfathers come from. Using not just our country but others for the research. 🙂👍❤️
Thank you guys, I really appreciate the kind support 😉😊 sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉😊
it was very beautiful . We follow your channel and always enjoy your quality videos
We look forward to your next videos
🙏🙏🙏🌹🌹🌹🌹😍🌹😍🌹😍
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
I’m Albanian and have this haplogroup.
Hey, thank you very kindly for dropping a comment 😊 I can imagine that the percentage of men that carry this haplogroup is relatively high in Albania 😊 catch up soon
What an interesting and great vlog this has been, do keep up the amazing work you've been doing over there too! Stay safe, stay connected~
Thank you very kindly, sending our best to you and catch up soon 😉😊
@@StephenandYhana can you please make a video for J-M172! x
@@kevinpople7828 Hi Kevin, I am looking at doing another series and focusing more on DNA groups, I will definitely add this to the list 😊 A big thank you for the suggestion 😊
@@StephenandYhana thank you! x
My father has this exact haplogroup - I-S17250. He's from Eastern Romania.
That’s very interesting, my father’s ethnicity overlaps Romania too, the whole area is very interesting 😊 historically and culturally
This is my brother's haplogroup. He did 23andme, predominantly from the Herzegovina/Dalmatia region.
Oh wow, that’s very interesting. I think it’s a very interesting Haplogroup especially with those ancient connections 😊 a big thank you for your comment, it’s much appreciated
Stephen this is so interesting. Thanks for sharing this. 😊
Thank you Lisa, sending my best and catch up soon 😉😊
This video is amazing and very informative thanks for sharing
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
Cucuteni is a village we have here, interesting new episode , the phylogenetic scheme looks like my neighbors' tube tv set from Yamna period !
Lol, 😉😊 I can imagine there are a few Cucuteni villages in your kneck of the woods, the Trypillian culture was spread right across a Eastern Europe and it would surprise me if this DNA group belongs with your own ancestors too 😉😊 thank you buddy for your kind support too 😊 catch up soon
Hi, your video is great!
One question if you don't mind... Could some of I2a1b-L621 (I2a din) in balkanites/south slavs be non slavic? If I2a1b-din is very associated with the middle age slavs, does that mean that it's fully and completely brought just by them? I heard some small percentages of it could be brought with Goths, Avars, Magyars or even by the autochtonous Thracians/Dacians/Getae. Could we exclude such completely? I think that I2a1b-din is at least 90% brought by slavs in balkans, what do you think? Is it a realistic estimate?
What about R1a in balkans? Is it all slavic? I heard that some of R1a in balkans could came with non-slavs tribes/people like Goths, Dacians, Getae, Illyrians, Pannonians, Celts etc.
Between I2a1b-L621 and R1a, which is more exclusively slavic in the today balkans? I would be very glad if you could answer me precisely.
Thanks in advance!
I think it’s very possible, that our ancestors mixed with different groups of people, I’m pretty sure that some groups traveled big distances to trade and even hunt. Here in England, Neolithic peoples travelled across the channel to source stone to use in tools.
I think the percentage would be low, as you said. This mix of peoples may even be a reason why a genetic mutation occurred.
I certainly agree with what you said.
Hopefully a few other people join in with this conversation as it’s a great question
Genes are not exclusively Slavic, German, or Japanese.
Although you are on good track you have a lot of Caps. Bulgars are Mongolic tribe from Russia, Balto-Slavic is Indo-European that is very present in Bulgars too. The least is present in Serbia
I am Dinaric Croat, my DNA is 91% I-S17250. Great job, Stephen.
Thank you buddy 😊 for the lovely comment
The entire genealogy amazes me, and makes me re-think traditional history books on migrations. When the highest frequency area of one subclade is rugged terrain (in this case Dinaric area, where >70% of population shares S-17250 DNA subclade), replacing DNA to this extent thousands of years ago does not sound credible at all. I am inclined to accept that I2a1 haplogroup has been dominant here since Ice Age, and S-17250 subclade developed here. Thoughts? Thank you.
You claim that I2a originates in Ukraine what is not true, because the only habitable land was Balkans
Interesting video, thank you! I'm also I-S17250 and my paternal ancestors come from the island of Ikaria, Greece.
Oh wow, that is very interesting 😊 part of my DNA incorporates most of the countries that surround Greece. It’s incredible how widespread some of these haplogroups are. A big thank you for the comment 😊
Great video, thank you! Do you have any information on the A26390 branch of I-S17250?
I don’t have any information on the haplogroup you mentioned, but I am researching for a second series, so I will definitely add that to the list 😊 catch up soon
🎧Very nice history on this interesting Trypillia culture, really good research from you. 13:42 👍
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
Hello my friend, how are you? you start this series very well, about the DNA and you also represent this topic very well, but why world is trying to capture this subject, fully watched and try to understand your discussion,
Thank you kindly buddy, it’s a difficult subject to follow, but it’s also a fascinating one 😉 shows how in some way we are all connected 😊🙏 I love that idea, makes our world a much smaller place. Thank you kindly and catch up soon 😊
My paternal lineage is IS17250. I hope my son will, finally, marry and have a son.
Subclade I-S17250 is very likely a White Croatian origin that spread(its sub-branches) from Slovenia to Greece with migration from White Croatia(south-eastern Poland and south-western Ukraine,). It also spread towards Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and Ukraine.
Thank you very kindly for the very interesting information 😊 I totally agree that the subclade originated in the areas you mentioned 😊 a big thank you and catch up soon
@@StephenandYhanaIt is interesting that Croatian toponyms also exist in Greece and Macedonia just like I-S17250 genetics. The point is that this genetics confirms written document ie De Administrando Imperio that is, it proves the migration of Croats to the Balkans. However, this also proves that migration starts from White Croatia and it goes in all directions (from Slovenia to Greece, etc.) It would be interesting if you could make a video on that topic and if you need help feel free to contact me. www.waughfamily.ca/Ancient/Tree%20and%20Map%20for%20Hg%20I.pdf
Stephen greetings for you. Greetings brother. My DNA is I2a-Y3120 (3800 years old). And otherwise very close to your DNA I2a-S17250. And mine is Dinaric. Someone claims it's the genetics of the ancients ..ILIRA ".I don't know how you see it.
Hi buddy, a big thank you for leaving the comment and very cool that we have some shared cousin DNA too. I think it certainly is very old DNA and I love the connection to the Trypillian culture too. I find those ancient connections fascinating
@@StephenandYhana That it fascinates and researches me and I spent 2 years in that job and I still do that job. Simply fascinating.
@@StephenandYhana That it fascinates and researches me and I spent 2 years in that job and I still do that job. Simply fascinating.
It isn't Illyrian because I2a1-L621 was non existent on the Balkans before 6th century.
@@vedranpostek2394 You must not have heard. In 2017, Zuzana Hofmanova did several tests at Vlasac near Lepenski Vir. Zuzana is a scientist in front of Max Plank from Germany. The results are official and recognized in the world. Out of a dozen different skeletons, they found that most of them have I2a haplogroup DNA. the oldest was I2-M438 from 7,100 years ago, from which later I2-L621 was obtained, of course all other newer haplogroups. Something similar was found in Bulgaria, but a little younger.
Wow
Nice❤
Amazing👍
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
Nice video appreciate the history 👍
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
فيديو رائع جدا ومميز بالتوفيق
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
Can you explain why my father is IS17250 but my brother is IM423. I thought IS17250 was a subclade of IM423? It would make more sense if my father was IM423. My paternal family hails from Podkarpackie, Poland and Ireland. Thank you for any help in advance.
That’s a strange one, as many thousands of years separate those two groups, and three subclades exist in between them. I would begin by asking the DNA company that question first. Maybe one of the kits was damaged in some way and a true test not capable. If both men are tested, and their DNA compared - they should share roughly 3500cm (50% DNA).
If correct. Your DNA company has not provided correct results.
@@StephenandYhana The testing company is 23andme. When I asked about the results I was told they’re the same haplogroup but one is simply missing a mutation, which made no sense. Thank you for your response. I will continue to investigate further.
They do belong in the same group, but IM423 is much older. I think your brothers kit was most likely corrupted in someway and a full result not able. Your brother is most likely IS17250. Hope you get to the bottom of it, my apologies for not being able to answer the question 100%, sending my best
@@StephenandYhana No I really appreciate your time. Just for clarification my brother was tested first and was tested as I2 if I remember correctly. And then a year or so later my father was tested and then they updated everything. My father and a few of his other paternal relations were changed to IS17250 and my brother to IM423. So I don’t know.
I2 is the patriarch of that branch, sounds to me as though 23andMe lacked the data to back up their science. As their database gets bigger, the science becomes more accurate.
Your brother is definitely iS17250. 😊
I guess these folks ended up in Southern Italy as well...because this is my father's Y-DNA and his paternal line is from Basilicata
That’s very likely, as I can imagine the migration spread into Southern Europe. You may even have an Eastern European connection perhaps. Even if it’s a long way back. Thank you Kindly for the comment 😊 and catch up soon
@@StephenandYhana yes, my DNA is very Eastern European/West Asian, and I have no known ancestors from there, they are all southern Italian, but the area of central Italy where my grandmother's family is from was settled by the Bulgars in the early 7th century and now this turned up for paternal grandfather's line. good stuff
Nice to meet you friend, you fine 🙏🙏
Coming soon to my room 🙏
Thank you very kindly my friend, sending my best and catch up soon 😉😊
Would like to see Haplogroup N-CTS2929
A big thank you for the suggestion, I am looking at doing another series, so will certainly include this in the list too 😉👍
Helllooo this is so interesting..Thanks for sharing..:Be safe always ..new friend here..Stay connected
Thank you very kindly, sending my best to you and catch up soon 😉❤️😊
It's not "12" it's "I2"
Thanks for pointing out the blooper, lol 😆👍
Watching this while im in bed .debs xx
Thank you Debs, xx hope you enjoyed, although it is a tough subject 😊 Yhana and I were out kayaking today 😊 it was lots of fun ❤️😉😊
@@StephenandYhana yay! cannot wait to see the video,did you enjoy it? also brit girls release my #challenge tomorrow debs xx
@@StephenandYhana lol still not well missed the enjoyed alot bit x
That’s very cool, can’t wait to see it xx 😊 it’s half term this week, so Yhana and I will get our video filmed this week ❤️😉😊
We had a lot of fun today, although Yhana got chased by a swan 🦢 lol
@@StephenandYhana everyone who does the dance will be sent there link to all other challengers,plus will go on my description so far got olga debs xx
yamnaya was slavic , cucuteni-trypylia was ukrainian and moldavian ancestors
We are here at least 20000 years