There is no one better than Mark to give you practical NO BS information on gear. He obsessively researches these products and is a user NOT a marketing guy trying to sell stuff. I am an AVID fan personally. There product line is a little complicated at first but Mark is THE expert on this line of products and does a better job than anyone explaining it to others and finding the right reel for your application. If you don’t live in S. Cal and visit here, stop off at this little shop it is loaded with information, assistance and gear.
Yeikes, thanks Ken. Really I'm just a plunker who has been in a very good position to learn from a lot of smarter guys with more experience than I have to boast about. Hang around sharp folks for 20 years, some good stuff should rub off, that's helped point me in the right direction.
Excellent video. My god it's thorough and covers all bases. One thing I'm thinking of in reference to Penn even bothering to make the internationals in single speed may have to do with keeping the price point low for people looking to get a high quality bottom fishing reel. Something with lower gear ratio to bring up a big aj or grouper without much issue. A two speed isn't necessary, but it's a beauty to have if you can swing it. My Avets see a lot of bottom fishing action, and only my new lx is single speed while my hxj and exw30 are used for fish based off the size of baits I intend to use, as well as line and drag capabilities of the reels themselves. Although any of those three reels punch way above their weight
Learning more myself, and have some more to find out regarding bearings. Avet's Pro series use sealed bearings, well greased. That explained the reduced freespool in comparison to Okuma's SEA with open bearings and trick oil. Penn...I suspect open bearings in keeping with their focus on the Makaira as the design basis. Still need to confirm that one before doing part two...
They're really not in the mix for this application. That's something one can quickly determine looking over guys rigs on a LR boat. I'm not a fan of shimano, that's a personal bias of mine, don't care for their gear nor US management and have not supported them since 2005 - I'm probably the only retailer in US market who does not support these folks. I'm a free market capitalist sort of guy, believe supply and demand determining price, fair competition over price fixing by a manufacturer. Having said that, my point is still valid, Tiagra's are fine for trolling, but not so good at the rail when compared to the manufacturer's products mentioned in the vid.
@@CharkBaitUSA and also because the Tiagra doesn't compare to these reels at all for this application, I'm not holding a 30-50 size reel with a cross bar that weights as much as a 80w Avet or VISX. All the reels he mentioned were lightweight, designed like machines, and have superior drags, gears, and Anodizing.
Hello mark, I am about to order one from your shop, but I need advice on a rod worthy of this reel so I can order them both, please let me know so I can place my order online(going to order 50/3 left).
Please contact me at the shop rather then thru YT and we can go over your plans and gear. I'm in on weekdays by 8am and usually gone by 2 or so (old guy hours). We have a toll free number posted on our website, email contact as well.
Mark would I need a 50 for a cow trip if I have both two 30's. I was thinking my Accurate ATD 30 size class reel would work. I'd thjnk that its plenty powerful.
Might work well for you, nice to have a 50 narrow regardless if it's a cow oriented trip. The ATD is a great reel, no doubt, but the question will be the rigging, capacity and how heavy you rigged her up. Optimally you want 600 or more yards of 130# braid on your cow rig. Nice to have that backed up with another, and/or another "finesse" rig at 100# for the braid... - I'm speaking from the standpoint of a long range cow tuna trip, yellowfin, out of San Diego, not a private boat going after bluefin. Smaller boat can move, long ranger won't move to help and since she'll likely be on a drift the boat's movement, current, wind...may be working against you requiring more line capacity.
Yep, they listened and then innovated. Within the Long Range community, they've proven themselves very capable, and like Avet did, pushed other's to improve designs...
Won’t fish the makaira anymore. Blew up too many. Went back to penn. my makaira were in the shop every year. Customer service is great but repairs take a long time.
Haven't experienced what you describe. Wondering if you were running the SEA version or the Gold. Sounds like you may have been using the SEA in an application that would have been better served with the gold version with shielded bearings...but hard for me to define "blew up too many.." Our experience in both long range and private boating has been nothing but VERY POSITIVE. Penn makes dandy trolling reels, in the past very well suited for that application but lacking for the long range application. That is finally improving.
I had 4 SEA II silver reels, the 16, 20, 30, and 50. Blew up the 16 5 times. blew up the 20 twice. Never caught anything big enough on the 50 or 30 to blow it up, but I figured it was a matter of time. Sending a reel to Okuma unfortunately is not like sending a reel back to Shimano where they have a 1 week turnaround. It took on average 5-6 weeks per reel and only after lots of follow up. Also, if youre saying i was using it in an application better served for the gold reel, you'd be incorrect. Unless the SEA iis were not meant for dead boat live bait fishing. Which is my understanding exactly what they were designed to do. Nothing beats a Penn with Cal Sheets treatment, or the new VISX line for big tuna live bait fishing.
Was not sure of your application based upon your note, flylining a live bait on an Mak SEA is right up it's alley. I was assuming you were simply trolling and didn't maintain the open bearings used on the SEA's. What you describe is 180 degrees out of line with what I have experienced and heard from anglers in several years dealing with Makaira series reels. I too own some Makaira and Andros reels, nothing but positives from my own experience and I have to admit I've been hard on my MK10's and 16 - they've taken some very good quality fish for me, a few fish greater than 150 lbs fishing 50# on the MK10's, nothing major yet above 200 on my MK16. I've had many clients take fish well over 300 on Makaira series reels. Albeit any manufacturer can have an issue, but what you describe is so out of whack with the reality I've seen it makes me wonder if something else is involved... Much different experience here sir. Okuma's turn around time has been excellent from their service dept. and their reputation among long range anglers is excellent as well. For factory service, I don't have any positive experience with Penn to mention by comparison, haven't fished their gear for some time - they have not made anything of personal interest until the current VISX line, and I'm not in need of replacing gear. They do seem like good products. The issue you describe with Okuma's warranty center could be a problem based on geography, with Okuma's USA plant located in SoCal, that's their primary warranty station verses PA for Penn. One major point, Okuma is not in business to lose money. They have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY. Penn offers ONE year and it is very likely the firm will be sold again this year. Their new VISX product does a lot of things right, they did copy some aspects of Okuma's innovative design, that's fact. The VISX series Penns offer freespool performance a tad better than Makaira, but longevity needs to be evaluated and really can't be accurately addressed at this point in time since the product hasn't been on the market for a full year. I'm hopeful Penn did their homework well on the gear and that you fish 'em hard and can get back with some feedback based upon some length of service. I'd like to see Penn do well, have been a big supporter over the years. But, I also have to say they've done some really dumb stuff from a marketing standpoint and with respect to product design, it's taken them an awfully long time to come to the party.
Freespool refers to the spool spinning unhindered by friction, makes for a more natural presentation when bait fishing - the bait can swim freely without any mechanical restriction from the spool. Mass is important, friction (bearings) are too.
Sounds like a great combo, very appropriate. The Viper gets a lot of play at 130#, the Invictus is the better choice for those planning on bumping up the drag and fishing more aggressively. I'd put the Viper to play at say 30 lbs of drag on the full spool. If you are more inclined to set up at 35 lbs to 40, the Invictus gets the nod. One point, the 7 1/2 foot UC rail rods have more material in them, they fish their upper end better. So, you could go Viper 7 1/2 or Invictus 7' and probably have the same sort of lift.
Don't see that happening. Their Pro Series product is very successful and excellent stuff. I'm certainly quite happy still with my own 2 50's which were from their first production back in 2005. But, over the next year or so Avet may surprise us with something larger in the Raptor series. Interestingly, one of the Makaira reels claim to fame was the operation of their lever, pull vs. push on the spool. That was followed by Penn's new pieces. But, it is my understanding that this design was actually first done with Avet's Raptor series and those were what competing firms used as a base for their improved models. Avet actually has a patent on that from what I've been told. Holding a patent and enforcing it thru litigation are two different things, costs can be huge and returns marginal. Accurate has faced that with their twin drag system with firms in china ripping that patent off, and trying to bring those infringing items into the US market. So, we'll see where this goes...
Can't find a better deal than the Avets already!! For an American made product with the build quality and engineering of Avet, their prices are great! Offshore gear is expensive but Avet provides the best value in the industry.
Mark, wonderful video, thank you very much for all the useful information!!! I still think that Accurate ATD big game reels are still king of them all!!
Yep, I'd be inclined to agree. I was trying to focus on reels that are more reasonably priced at under 1K, those that have pushed the envelope a bit. ATD's are machines!
Up until a few years ago I'd have said the Makaira was the best for the LR cow tuna purpose, regardless of price. Considered them more reliable and functionally better than the ATD. However, Accurate has done an excellent job improving those reels. The drag was always superior by design, it was the rest of the drive train that didn't handle multiple big fish well. That was based on my own observation.. That's not the case these days. For the past few years, Ithink the ATD is the best piece on the market, taking price out of the equation.
Tallicas are garbage. On one trip to panama my crew broke four tallica 50 in one trip. 3 of them the reel feet sheared off the frames. The fourth one the gear shaft snapped
Not the Talica to me. I was on a friend's boat offshore in Florida and his brand new, out of the box, Talica 50 II failed on the first fish. Maybe it was just a bad apple, but the reel seat was bent and when we opened it up some of the teeth on the low speed gear had broken and the entire assembly was loose. Drag was set fine, I think it was just a "lemon" situation but man it was as if the entire inside of the reel had blown up.
@@peterkim1000 Talicas are not even designed for the salt very well, if you want a small LD reel get a Torque, if you want something larger, get a Visx/Makaira.
There is no one better than Mark to give you practical NO BS information on gear. He obsessively researches these products and is a user NOT a marketing guy trying to sell stuff. I am an AVID fan personally. There product line is a little complicated at first but Mark is THE expert on this line of products and does a better job than anyone explaining it to others and finding the right reel for your application. If you don’t live in S. Cal and visit here, stop off at this little shop it is loaded with information, assistance and gear.
Yeikes, thanks Ken. Really I'm just a plunker who has been in a very good position to learn from a lot of smarter guys with more experience than I have to boast about. Hang around sharp folks for 20 years, some good stuff should rub off, that's helped point me in the right direction.
I'm curious about accurate fishing's ADX series too
I fished 2005. I had a Shimano 50w. I had no failure on 3 tuna ove 200lbs. My best was 263lbs.
Excellent video. My god it's thorough and covers all bases. One thing I'm thinking of in reference to Penn even bothering to make the internationals in single speed may have to do with keeping the price point low for people looking to get a high quality bottom fishing reel. Something with lower gear ratio to bring up a big aj or grouper without much issue. A two speed isn't necessary, but it's a beauty to have if you can swing it. My Avets see a lot of bottom fishing action, and only my new lx is single speed while my hxj and exw30 are used for fish based off the size of baits I intend to use, as well as line and drag capabilities of the reels themselves. Although any of those three reels punch way above their weight
Learning more myself, and have some more to find out regarding bearings. Avet's Pro series use sealed bearings, well greased. That explained the reduced freespool in comparison to Okuma's SEA with open bearings and trick oil. Penn...I suspect open bearings in keeping with their focus on the Makaira as the design basis. Still need to confirm that one before doing part two...
Great video. Just wondering why you didn't add in the Shamino Tiagra
They're really not in the mix for this application. That's something one can quickly determine looking over guys rigs on a LR boat. I'm not a fan of shimano, that's a personal bias of mine, don't care for their gear nor US management and have not supported them since 2005 - I'm probably the only retailer in US market who does not support these folks. I'm a free market capitalist sort of guy, believe supply and demand determining price, fair competition over price fixing by a manufacturer. Having said that, my point is still valid, Tiagra's are fine for trolling, but not so good at the rail when compared to the manufacturer's products mentioned in the vid.
@@CharkBaitUSA and also because the Tiagra doesn't compare to these reels at all for this application, I'm not holding a 30-50 size reel with a cross bar that weights as much as a 80w Avet or VISX. All the reels he mentioned were lightweight, designed like machines, and have superior drags, gears, and Anodizing.
Thanks for the video. I love my Avets, no need to change and this confirms it. Almost as much as you love that price tag gun. Haha.
Hello mark, I am about to order one from your shop, but I need advice on a rod worthy of this reel so I can order them both, please let me know so I can place my order online(going to order 50/3 left).
Please contact me at the shop rather then thru YT and we can go over your plans and gear. I'm in on weekdays by 8am and usually gone by 2 or so (old guy hours). We have a toll free number posted on our website, email contact as well.
Mark would I need a 50 for a cow trip if I have both two 30's. I was thinking my Accurate ATD 30 size class reel would work. I'd thjnk that its plenty powerful.
Might work well for you, nice to have a 50 narrow regardless if it's a cow oriented trip. The ATD is a great reel, no doubt, but the question will be the rigging, capacity and how heavy you rigged her up. Optimally you want 600 or more yards of 130# braid on your cow rig. Nice to have that backed up with another, and/or another "finesse" rig at 100# for the braid... - I'm speaking from the standpoint of a long range cow tuna trip, yellowfin, out of San Diego, not a private boat going after bluefin. Smaller boat can move, long ranger won't move to help and since she'll likely be on a drift the boat's movement, current, wind...may be working against you requiring more line capacity.
Seems like more and more folks are fishing the Makira SEA reels, they must be doing something right.
Yep, they listened and then innovated. Within the Long Range community, they've proven themselves very capable, and like Avet did, pushed other's to improve designs...
Won’t fish the makaira anymore. Blew up too many. Went back to penn. my makaira were in the shop every year. Customer service is great but repairs take a long time.
Haven't experienced what you describe. Wondering if you were running the SEA version or the Gold. Sounds like you may have been using the SEA in an application that would have been better served with the gold version with shielded bearings...but hard for me to define "blew up too many.." Our experience in both long range and private boating has been nothing but VERY POSITIVE. Penn makes dandy trolling reels, in the past very well suited for that application but lacking for the long range application. That is finally improving.
I had 4 SEA II silver reels, the 16, 20, 30, and 50. Blew up the 16 5 times. blew up the 20 twice. Never caught anything big enough on the 50 or 30 to blow it up, but I figured it was a matter of time. Sending a reel to Okuma unfortunately is not like sending a reel back to Shimano where they have a 1 week turnaround. It took on average 5-6 weeks per reel and only after lots of follow up. Also, if youre saying i was using it in an application better served for the gold reel, you'd be incorrect. Unless the SEA iis were not meant for dead boat live bait fishing. Which is my understanding exactly what they were designed to do. Nothing beats a Penn with Cal Sheets treatment, or the new VISX line for big tuna live bait fishing.
Was not sure of your application based upon your note, flylining a live bait on an Mak SEA is right up it's alley. I was assuming you were simply trolling and didn't maintain the open bearings used on the SEA's. What you describe is 180 degrees out of line with what I have experienced and heard from anglers in several years dealing with Makaira series reels. I too own some Makaira and Andros reels, nothing but positives from my own experience and I have to admit I've been hard on my MK10's and 16 - they've taken some very good quality fish for me, a few fish greater than 150 lbs fishing 50# on the MK10's, nothing major yet above 200 on my MK16. I've had many clients take fish well over 300 on Makaira series reels. Albeit any manufacturer can have an issue, but what you describe is so out of whack with the reality I've seen it makes me wonder if something else is involved... Much different experience here sir.
Okuma's turn around time has been excellent from their service dept. and their reputation among long range anglers is excellent as well. For factory service, I don't have any positive experience with Penn to mention by comparison, haven't fished their gear for some time - they have not made anything of personal interest until the current VISX line, and I'm not in need of replacing gear. They do seem like good products. The issue you describe with Okuma's warranty center could be a problem based on geography, with Okuma's USA plant located in SoCal, that's their primary warranty station verses PA for Penn. One major point, Okuma is not in business to lose money. They have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY. Penn offers ONE year and it is very likely the firm will be sold again this year. Their new VISX product does a lot of things right, they did copy some aspects of Okuma's innovative design, that's fact. The VISX series Penns offer freespool performance a tad better than Makaira, but longevity needs to be evaluated and really can't be accurately addressed at this point in time since the product hasn't been on the market for a full year. I'm hopeful Penn did their homework well on the gear and that you fish 'em hard and can get back with some feedback based upon some length of service. I'd like to see Penn do well, have been a big supporter over the years. But, I also have to say they've done some really dumb stuff from a marketing standpoint and with respect to product design, it's taken them an awfully long time to come to the party.
Sir; I am new to fishing, please tell me what you mean by "Free spooling"?
Freespool refers to the spool spinning unhindered by friction, makes for a more natural presentation when bait fishing - the bait can swim freely without any mechanical restriction from the spool. Mass is important, friction (bearings) are too.
Car analogy: the reel is in neutral. The spool can spin backward and forward.
How does it sound pairing up a Makaira 50 with a United Comp Invictus 100-150?
Sounds like a great combo, very appropriate. The Viper gets a lot of play at 130#, the Invictus is the better choice for those planning on bumping up the drag and fishing more aggressively. I'd put the Viper to play at say 30 lbs of drag on the full spool. If you are more inclined to set up at 35 lbs to 40, the Invictus gets the nod. One point, the 7 1/2 foot UC rail rods have more material in them, they fish their upper end better. So, you could go Viper 7 1/2 or Invictus 7' and probably have the same sort of lift.
Please let me know when the 1/2 price sale starts with the Avets. LOL
Don't see that happening. Their Pro Series product is very successful and excellent stuff. I'm certainly quite happy still with my own 2 50's which were from their first production back in 2005. But, over the next year or so Avet may surprise us with something larger in the Raptor series. Interestingly, one of the Makaira reels claim to fame was the operation of their lever, pull vs. push on the spool. That was followed by Penn's new pieces. But, it is my understanding that this design was actually first done with Avet's Raptor series and those were what competing firms used as a base for their improved models. Avet actually has a patent on that from what I've been told. Holding a patent and enforcing it thru litigation are two different things, costs can be huge and returns marginal. Accurate has faced that with their twin drag system with firms in china ripping that patent off, and trying to bring those infringing items into the US market. So, we'll see where this goes...
Can't find a better deal than the Avets already!! For an American made product with the build quality and engineering of Avet, their prices are great! Offshore gear is expensive but Avet provides the best value in the industry.
excellent information thank you I'm in the market looking for a 50 reel
Mark, wonderful video, thank you very much for all the useful information!!! I still think that Accurate ATD big game reels are still king of them all!!
Yep, I'd be inclined to agree. I was trying to focus on reels that are more reasonably priced at under 1K, those that have pushed the envelope a bit. ATD's are machines!
In your opinion, what is the best 50 or 50N in the market? Shimano Talica II 50? Accurate Platinum ATD 50?
Up until a few years ago I'd have said the Makaira was the best for the LR cow tuna purpose, regardless of price. Considered them more reliable and functionally better than the ATD. However, Accurate has done an excellent job improving those reels. The drag was always superior by design, it was the rest of the drive train that didn't handle multiple big fish well. That was based on my own observation.. That's not the case these days. For the past few years, Ithink the ATD is the best piece on the market, taking price out of the equation.
Tallicas are garbage. On one trip to panama my crew broke four tallica 50 in one trip. 3 of them the reel feet sheared off the frames. The fourth one the gear shaft snapped
Not the Talica to me. I was on a friend's boat offshore in Florida and his brand new, out of the box, Talica 50 II failed on the first fish. Maybe it was just a bad apple, but the reel seat was bent and when we opened it up some of the teeth on the low speed gear had broken and the entire assembly was loose. Drag was set fine, I think it was just a "lemon" situation but man it was as if the entire inside of the reel had blown up.
@@peterkim1000 Talicas are not even designed for the salt very well, if you want a small LD reel get a Torque, if you want something larger, get a Visx/Makaira.
Lyf_Soul makairas are junk too. I’m sticking with penn.
Charkbait, best tackle shop in SoCal.
Thank you sir, much appreciated by all of us here.
Thanks for: good info; not using hip hop/rap/metal music for background noise. Fish like good music, too.
what's funny is Long Range for us is just half day fishing for people that live down south.
funny ring tone, dog barking is the wife lol.