What If the Singularity Does NOT Happen? | Vernor Vinge

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  • Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
  • Technology acceleration is like what happens approaching the singularity in the center of a black hole--- everything is transformed utterly and unpredictably. That metaphor was invented by science fiction writer Vernor Vinge in 1980s and has entered standard usage as a way of thinking about the near future. In this talk Vinge challenges his own idea, investigating scenarios of "a human-scaled world with long time horizons," and how that might play out over ten or twenty thousand years.
    "What If the Singularity Does NOT Happen?" was given on February 15, 02007 as part of Long Now's Seminar series. The series was started in 02003 to build a compelling body of ideas about long-term thinking from some of the world's leading thinkers. The Seminars take place in San Francisco and are curated and hosted by Stewart Brand. To follow the talks, you can:
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 57

  • @perkyfrog
    @perkyfrog 4 роки тому +11

    thank you for making this available on youtube

  • @gabriellevine6219
    @gabriellevine6219 5 місяців тому +1

    Wonderful lecture. Vinge saw further and earlier than most. Watching this shortly after his passing.

  • @NickdeVera
    @NickdeVera Рік тому +1

    31:22 "a better imitation of freedom than has ever existed" is fascinating

  • @black_eagle
    @black_eagle 3 роки тому +9

    Before Singularity, fetch water, chop wood. After Singularity, fetch water, chop wood.

    • @alireid5874
      @alireid5874 2 роки тому

      Before Singularity, stop the Singularity. After, fetch water, chop wood.

    • @jeremymeyer5990
      @jeremymeyer5990 Рік тому

      Such an underrated comment

    • @benjaminkemper5876
      @benjaminkemper5876 4 місяці тому

      idk if that's a reference that I don't get, but... it strikes me as true, regardless. 2 years closer.

  • @RigbyMadewell
    @RigbyMadewell Рік тому +7

    does anyone have any idea if Vinge is working on a 4th Zones of thought book? i would certainly love a conclusion to his story

    • @PaulHigginbothamSr
      @PaulHigginbothamSr 10 місяців тому

      We humans do not wish a conclusion from Vinge's work, we will not be pleased with the result.

  • @stevewapner9061
    @stevewapner9061 Рік тому +2

    The necessity for the authorities to provide the people with the "illusion of freedom". ~31:30

  • @rclark7083
    @rclark7083 3 роки тому +8

    Perhaps the Singularity is already long past, and the cosmic microwave background is its echo.

    • @Kenny-tl7ir
      @Kenny-tl7ir 4 місяці тому

      You are partially correct. The Singularity exists both in the past, the very beginning of the universe, and in the distant future, there very end of the universe. Which means whatever reality it is right now in between is merely a simulation generated by the Singularity.

    • @Kenny-tl7ir
      @Kenny-tl7ir 4 місяці тому

      We jump into the singularity to end the current simulation to be whatever we want in the next.

  • @jomow9335
    @jomow9335 2 роки тому +1

    One man’s villain is another man’s hero… this is the automation of “might makes right”

  • @brianwade8649
    @brianwade8649 4 роки тому +1

    32:10. if world "net good intention" could be plotted, a scenario where something caused it to start increasing could become exponentially increasing. Imagine us in the room full of dynamite with nothing to focus on but thinking about how it could detonate and proactively preventing it. The only thing preventing this is "evil" motives like greed, absence of love, etc.? But aren't those relative?

  • @PaulSpades
    @PaulSpades 3 місяці тому

    I'm beginning to favour data storage and retrieval being more important than energy generated/consumed, as a mark of advanced civilisation.

  • @PaulHigginbothamSr
    @PaulHigginbothamSr 10 місяців тому

    An n-way crash. Reminds me of finding bullet collisions from our American civil war. Many bullet collisions of two men firing at one another where the men fire at exactly the same time where both men are saved by the bullet's collisions at mid field where if no collision both men die by a slight collisionless timing of firing slightly before and after where both men go down to death. The n-collision where another man fires at the same target and all three bullets meet mid field saving both firing parties by bullet collisions. Just shows the amount of lead in the air at one time and the amount of dead when two groups meet with arms fully primed to shoot to death the opponent. Mad (mutually assured destruction), is so ridiculous as to make the very component of initiating firing the bullet a non-starter because both parties die just like the two men would die in the civil war where both men have the capability to kill the opponent. With the abomination of desecration available to both parties no one starts because everything fails at the same time it is unleashed. The time will come when the singularity might grasp the capability by two different parties to produce at the same time super human logical thought that fights against each other beyond human scope. Doubtful but possible. More likely one unit becomes superior and the singularity happens with one vector.

  • @ATSucks1
    @ATSucks1 3 роки тому +1

    Ive boght your book but life happened... i just wanna listen now in my dark time. Deepness in the sky. That was the won. On par with egan and brin. Amazing stuff

    • @zonipoi
      @zonipoi 3 роки тому

      Man that's my favourite sf novel. Even inspired my major choice and thesis subject.

  • @sterlingsinclair5327
    @sterlingsinclair5327 4 роки тому

    Changed humanity forever cant go back, or at least unwilling to go back

  • @DanElton
    @DanElton Рік тому

    Recorded Feb 02007

  • @brianwade8649
    @brianwade8649 4 роки тому +7

    Vernor, you are a brilliant man, but I think maybe the anti-Tony-Robbins also.

    • @mk3ferret
      @mk3ferret 3 роки тому +1

      I spit out my drink....
      severe burn

    • @brianwade8649
      @brianwade8649 3 роки тому

      @@mk3ferret great! and sorry. lol

  • @sterlingsinclair5327
    @sterlingsinclair5327 4 роки тому +3

    The singularity already happened I think, it was the internet

    • @pervyboy69
      @pervyboy69 3 роки тому +1

      Then you don't understand what the technological singularity actually means.

    • @sterlingsinclair5327
      @sterlingsinclair5327 3 роки тому

      @@pervyboy69 explain it to me

    • @pervyboy69
      @pervyboy69 3 роки тому

      @@sterlingsinclair5327 When ai intelligence is greater than mans it can then improve itself and there will be an exponential explosion of the ai's advancement and of the new technological discoveries made. That hasn't happened yet, A super intelligent ai will be man's last invention as the ai will be better than man at inventing new technologies.

    • @sterlingsinclair5327
      @sterlingsinclair5327 3 роки тому +1

      @@pervyboy69 oooohhh I see what your saying, AI that builds things we never could. That sounds like a recipie for disaster though 🤔 that would make us obsolete

    • @pervyboy69
      @pervyboy69 3 роки тому +1

      @@sterlingsinclair5327 I know, its very scary....once the ai has exceeded man in intelligence we are at its mercy.

  • @chronosschiron
    @chronosschiron 2 роки тому +1

    no cell phones are not as positive if we all had privacy and control of our data then it would be net good its being abused by every corporation

  • @filsdejeannoir1776
    @filsdejeannoir1776 2 роки тому

    0:25 Whats 02007?

  • @slightlygruff
    @slightlygruff 3 роки тому

    58:57 whats framing ham?

    • @grimscriven
      @grimscriven 3 роки тому

      I think he's referring to a Framingham Risk Score applied to civilization issues as opposed to just cardiovascular risk where it's applied in humans.

  • @Story-Voracious66
    @Story-Voracious66 3 роки тому

    If you just listen,( no graphic )
    Who else can't help seeing Brains from The Thunderbirds.

  • @black_eagle
    @black_eagle 3 роки тому +2

    What if a Singularity happened and no one noticed?

    • @stevengill1736
      @stevengill1736 Рік тому

      IOW maybe it already did! ;*[}

    • @maxmordon7295
      @maxmordon7295 Рік тому

      By definition, it's what has been happening since the Industrial Revolution; it's, like everything, a gradual process...

    • @Kenny-tl7ir
      @Kenny-tl7ir 4 місяці тому

      The Singularity existed already, because it transcends time itself. In fact the current reality is a simulation from the singularity.

    • @black_eagle
      @black_eagle 4 місяці тому

      @@Kenny-tl7ir Got any evidence for this bizarre claim?

    • @Kenny-tl7ir
      @Kenny-tl7ir 4 місяці тому

      @@black_eagle Conformal Cyclic Cosmology by Sir Roger Penrose, one of the founders of Black Hole information theory. The universe in the distant future is identical to the Universe in the distant past. Which means whatever it is that we are Engineering ourselves into existed at the beginning of this universe. It makes sense because when consciousness is uploaded, we lose our physical bodies and turn into pure digital information, effectively exchanging mass for energy, which in its purest form are Photons with zero mass. Zero mass particles travel at the speed of light and thus do not experience time in line with General Relativity thus such particles or quanta exist in the very same moment in the Big Bang as well as the distant end of this universe. If the singularity happens this century, then the end of this current universe will only be a moment away from when we uploaded ourselves.

  • @xeraksnaz
    @xeraksnaz 3 роки тому

    Closet malthusian

  • @bor1490
    @bor1490 2 роки тому +1

    Would we get a refund for all the suffering?

    • @earlpipe9713
      @earlpipe9713 Рік тому

      Yes, instant death for all organic intelligence

  • @LasYuyu
    @LasYuyu 2 роки тому +5

    This guy ego is so intense that he is so proud that psychopaths are following his fictional book, they all have lost what makes humans different from machines!

    • @earlpipe9713
      @earlpipe9713 Рік тому +1

      They're very easily manipulated

    • @earlpipe9713
      @earlpipe9713 Рік тому

      Just think of all the so called modern geniuses that were played like fiddles by Epstein

    • @user-pu2ho4ip3d
      @user-pu2ho4ip3d 7 місяців тому

      It's only a what if question. Don't make too much out of it. Don't be so serious.

    • @Kenny-tl7ir
      @Kenny-tl7ir 4 місяці тому

      How do you know if it’s his ego or your own that you are talking about ?

  • @stevepax2809
    @stevepax2809 Рік тому

    Interesting, but in 2023 well out of date.