Vernor Vinge's Best Science Fiction, 1984-2011; How to Avoid a Technological Singularity
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- This is the second part of my overview of Vernor Vinge, a modern all-time great science fiction author and one of the foremost thinkers about the future of artificial intelligence and the potential for a technological singularity to occur in the coming decades. His fiction and nonfiction writing has had a profound impact on many other highly regarded authors including: William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, Greg Bear, Tad Williams and Dan Simmons.
Many of Vinge's works are brilliant. Among them are some of my all-time favorites in the SF genre. And he's been recognized with numerous awards, including seven Hugo nominations and five wins, despite writing only eight novels and 24 short stories and novellas over a span of five decades.
My first video about Vinge, covering his ideas about superhuman intellligence and his early works from 1965-1981, can be found at • Vernor Vinge's Early S... .
In this second video, I discuss his works spanning the period 1984-2011, when his writing reached its zenith.
0:03 Vinge overview
0:58 The Peace War
5:39 The Ungoverned
7:03 Marooned in Realtime
11:45 Zones of Thought
14:32 A Fire Upon the Deep
19:18 A Deepness in the Sky
22:24 The Children of the Sky
24:16 The Blabber
25:16 Fast Times at Fairmont High
28:22 Rainbow's End
31:04 The Cookie Monster
#sciencefictionalliance #booktube #sciencefiction #scifi #booktubesff #singularity #artificialintelligence #sf
With apologies to Mr. Vinge, this video didn't turn out quite how I hoped it would. Between losing my voice while filming it (hence the hoarse whisper), and losing a week to a very unpleasant bout with Covid while trying to edit it, I'm just grateful I managed to put together what I did for the video. [So please try to avoid posting comments about how weird my voice sounds in this one. Thanks.🙂]
I'm sorry you had to deal with covid, glad you are doing better!
@@kimboosan Thank you! I am feeling _much_ better (although still experiencing a few residual effects that I hope will be gone soon).
Did food taste weird/bad to you when you had covid? When I had it recently everything tasted awful for about a week.
Sir!! You do not get to apologize for having other life events. As i have learned nobody cares about schedules if you have quality enough videos. I am thrilled to see this video!!
Also, kudo to your b-roll game! Its really improved and is very well chosen. Wonderful work!
Not really, but then again, I hardly ate anything for several days.
Having read science fiction over the course of 5 decades, I believe that "FIRE" and "DEEPNESS" are some of the best science fiction novels ever written, in my humble opinion.
I share that opinion. Thanks for watching!
I just finished A Fire Upon The Deep. Absolutely incredible! It had everything! If my heart wasn't pumping from the action it was breaking for the characters, truly. I have rarely teared up while reading anything, I think I teared up three times during this. I immediately tracked down a first edition online (couldn't help myself lol). I cannot believe I tried this twice in the past and gave up on it. Truly, the kind of Hard SF I've always been after. Now I don't know if I want to continue with A Deepness In The Sky or read the more direct sequel The Children of The Sky, first... And I must get a copy of The Blabber as well! A thousand thankyou's for your videos, these recent two in particular!
Terrific! Given what I know about your SF tastes, I'd have been disappointed if you didn't enjoy it. Now I'm curious to see whether Deepness resonates with you in much the same way.
My first encounter with Dune followed a similar pattern. I was about 12 when I first ran across it in my school library. It looked interesting so I started reading it. After about 50 pages or so, I lost interest and returned it to the library.
Two years later, I decided to give it another try, and this time I couldn't put it down. And Dune became one of my all-time favorites.
A Deepness in the Sky is one of the best sci-fi books I've ever read. I enjoyed the entire trilogy, but that one is far and away the best entry. I also like that it really can function as a stand-alone book with it being every bit as enjoyable without reading the other two volumes. It's my favorite Vinge book by far.
It's my favorite book by Vinge as well. Thanks for sharing!
I have never been a fan of Science Fiction reading. My reading through the years has been 85% fantasy (the likes of Tolkien, Moorcock, Howard, Wagner, Feist, etc... your fantasy videos are what made me subscribe to your channel in the first place) and the other 15% saved for other loved authors of mine (McCarthy, King's non-horror books, and a few others)... but I have to say, I've been religiously watching your videos and these last two on Vinge videos have completely changed my view on SF from something I would like to avoid, to something I really want to read. His books sound fantastic and I plan on picking up True Names, The Peace War, & A Fire Upon The Deep soon. Thank you for broadening my reading with your fantastic videos!
Thanks! I'm so glad I've been able to interest you in new authors and even new genres. Science fiction can be a difficult genre to appreciate because, in my experience, much of it tends to fall into three broad but flawed categories: (a) interesting and thought-provoking ideas with mediocre writing; (b) military fiction with bigger weapons, badder adversaries, and absurd plots; and (c) essentially fantasy fiction with a traditional science fiction setting (such as outer space or the future -- e.g., much of the Star Wars literary canon). I think it's the exceptions to those categories that often are highly noteworthy and well worth reading for people who don't typically prefer SF.
Vinge's a good example. His early works largely fall into category (a). Great ideas, very influential, but the storytelling is merely okay. And as he continued to write, he gradually became much better at it, to the point that his best works (A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky) are thought-provoking and highly satisfying reads that far transcend category (a).
Another outstanding video! Thank you. I have to say, I look forward to every video from this channel.
Thanks! I really enjoy making these videos, and I'm glad they're finding an audience.
Great video! I absolutely loved A Fire Upon the Deep, and I also really enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky. Pham Nuwen is a great character, and I also thought the Tines were one of the most fascinating alien species I've ever read. Your videos have me excited to read more from Vinge!
Thanks! I hope you enjoy the rest of Vinge's books.
I’m going to be honest, I’m mainly here for the way you speak it’s amazing.
Thanks! And this was one of my worst efforts. I was losing my voice throughout filming, and I could only speak in a kind of hoarse whisper.
Does this mean I need to make the informational content of my videos more engaging or entertaining ? :)
@@thelibraryladder well, I first noticed your channel because of the way you talk both tone and the way you talk in general. It wasn’t meant to be a comment against your content, more that I enjoy your voice enough that content matters less to me.
Keep doing what you do I think they’re great videos though since you show passion about the subject.
@@NotDuncan No worries. I truly didn’t interpret your comment as a slight on the content of my videos. My response was just a weak attempt at humor. I apologize if it caused you any concern. Thanks for the positive feedback!
What a great synchronization, we uploaded book related videos at about the exact same time! Really looking forward to watching this :) Thanx for all your hard work, you're the best!
Awesome! Thank you!
Thank you for carrying out this work, I'm watching all the channel's videos in sequence and loving discovering and researching these incredible works. For now, many of these renowned writers have not been properly published here in Brazil, so what you do is extremely necessary for someone curious like me, I look forward to seeing what else you will show in the future.
Thank you for your very kind words! I'm so glad you're enjoying my channel. I have many more videos planned. Unfortunately, I struggle to find time to make them on a regular basis. My next one is almost finished. :)
Another great episode. Makes me excited to read new things. Thanks!
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this video, he's one of my favorite authors. Great reviews of his works. You've clearly read them all. I was in a discussion with Vinge and other transhumanists 20-odd years ago about what the singularity would look like.
Thanks! That must have been a fascinating discussion. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall listening to it. I don't suppose you all reached any conclusions about the singularity that you'd like to share? :)
Another amazing video and review! Thank you.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching!
you may like Singularity Sky by Stross. Vinge is a favorite of mine, always full of ideas.
he really took those bubble universes and ran with them. the 'arrow of time' became horrifying.
I feel the same about Vinge. Stross tends to be hit-or-miss for me, but Singularity Sky and its sequel, Iron Sunrise, are two of his books that I quite enjoyed. Thanks!
holy lord. I had to leave after hearing about that first book. I will return post reading that.
It just sounded too good to resist!
I hope you enjoy it at least as much as I do! Thanks!
@@thelibraryladder im back. It was "meh". Still a fun read. Now for the sequel
Thank you for this. The Peace War series and the Zone series both remain far and away my favourite scifi. Paul Hoehler perhaps the character I admire the most. Nothing I can add except to add how profoundly prescient Vinge was with his "Net of a Million Lies" meme.
Excited to watch this.
Thanks! I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you for the great intro of Vinge’s works! My copy of A FIRE UPON THE DEEP is on its way now :-)
Wonderful! I hope you enjoy it, and that you then decide to try some of his others, including the follow-up, A Deepness in the Sky. Thanks!
Excellent review! I saw a nice deluxe soft bound edition of Fire upon the Deep at a local Barnes & Noble. I will definitely pick it up! Also, it would be cool to see you do overviews of authors such as Gene Wolfe, Dan Simmons, or Jack Vance..
Thanks! I plan to do overviews of all three authors, with Simmons likely up first later this year. I hope to get to Vance early next year.
Another incredible video. I’ve just recently picked up A Fire Upon the Deep, excited to get into it! I’ve heard nothing but incredible things about it.
Thanks! I really hope it lives up to your expectations.
Another author on the long list XD. The neat thing is, I never would’ve heard of this guy anywhere but here.
I'm glad I was able to introduce Vinge's works to you. He's one of my all-time favorites. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I read A Fire Upon The Deep just a few weeks ago because of Media Death Cult's recommendation and i loved it. Like you Moid thinks A Deepness in the Sky is even better so i will try to put it in my list soon. Great video as usual!
Thanks for reminding me about Vinge, I read Fire upon the Deep 20 years ago and I enjoyed it, but it will probably be a while before I can get back to his stuff because I'm busy working my way through Guy Gavriel Kay, thank you for that too.
You're welcome! I'm always happy to perform a public service. :)
Thank you for the well thought out review, and I am really enjoying your channel. The first two zones of thought novels are masterpieces- truly some of the best science fiction ever written (I couldn't get more than halfway through the third book), but I don't think the same can be said about the rest of his work. I remember reading the "bobble" novels and his short stories about 25 years ago and thinking they were so-so. He is sort of similar to David Brin in that both have some of the most imaginative and thought provoking ideas in the genre, but the stories and characters are often lacking.
Thanks for your comment. David Brin is an interesting comparison. I can see the parallels between them, although I don't think Brin's best books quite rise to the level of Vinge's best.
Excellent reviews of a great author. The first 2 books in the Zones of Thought series are both fantastic and, like you, A Deepness in the Sky is my favourite.
Thank you for introducing me to the likes of Vinge, Stephenson, Moorcock & Kay much sooner than I likely would've, or perhaps ever. Excellent video as always, and I look forward to finding Vinge's works in my future book hunting. I came across a Moorcock paperback today for $1.00 (The Warhound and the World's Pain) one helluva a deal, but overall have noticed that his books, though there are many titles, are not easy to find at all, and are usually priced accordingly on eBay (expensive, and rightfully so).
*That dancing building in the video was awesome by the way, not sure how you managed that one, but it was having a true 'block party'.
The building in the video is the actual dancing building described in the book -- the Dr. Seuss Library at San Diego State University. I got it to dance by asking it nicely. :D
Seriously, though, it was one of the easiest effects to pull off in the video: a doubled clip; a mask around the building; and a little added camera shake FX with a gentle sine wave curve. Literally, five minutes to accomplish in my editing software, Davinci Resolve, and two minutes of that was spent drawing the mask around the building.
I suspect vintage UK paperback editions of Moorcock's books are a little easier to find at lower prices. I think his popularity has historically skewed a little more outside the US.
@@thelibraryladder That's consistent with my experience hunting for the Eternal Champion omnibus volumes. Some of the US editions from White Wolf are very expensive (e.g. Count Brass and Earl Aubec), but the UK editions from Millenium/Orion or Gollancz are much more affordable.
Always looking forward to your videos. I really like those Author deep dives since there is an overlap with my favorite authors. Can you share future plans for videos?
Thank you! The author overview videos are some of my favorites to do, but they're also the most time consuming for me to make. Consequently, my near-term video plans are in a state of flux as I'm trying to identify and mix in some shorter videos to provide more regular uploads and expand my coverage of different genres.
My next video will be a partial bookshelf tour covering a small but meaningful portion of my book collection. After that, I'm not sure yet.
The author overviews I hope to make in the next six months include Dan Simmons, Tad Williams, Jack Vance, Tim Powers, Bernard Cornwell, Ian Fleming, and John D. MacDonald, although the order likely will vary. I have an overview of the renowned horror publisher Arkham House coming in October.
I'm also going to give thought to making a series of overview videos (such as rankings or essential read lists) covering entire genres.
Cool... thank you...
You're welcome. I'm so glad you enjoyed the video.
Excellent! I was delighted to discover I have the ‘Across Realtime’ omnibus on my shelf, I thought I only had a copy of Marooned. I’m now reading A fire upon the deep and hooked!
Terrific! Does your omnibus contain 'The Ungoverned' or does it just have the two novels? I think there are a couple of different omnibus editions, and one has the short story while the other doesn't. The story provides some helpful (although not essential) context for Marooned in Realtime.
If you like A Fire Upon the Deep, just wait until you get to A Deepness in the Sky. It's a book I could reread every year without ever getting tired of it.
@@thelibraryladder My copy includes the short story! I’m quite pleased! And looking forward to everything Vinge!
Brilliant and informative. I am reading A Deepness In The Sky at the moment.
Thanks! Feel free to share your impression here of A Deepness in the Sky when you finish it.
i too am a collector, and my first love is SciFi high spots. I don't know if you're into "top tens"; some people don't like them. But they do serve to generate discussion and a sharing of opinions, and I've also greatly expanded my "TBR" list by taking note of books I'd not yet read. Anyway, for what it's worth, here are my top ten favorite SciFi novels: 1. Dune by Frank Herbert, 2. 1984 by George Orwell, 3. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, 4. The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin, 5. A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller, 6. Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury, 7. Hyperion by Dan Simmons, 8. Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, 9. Gateway by Frederik Pohl, 10. More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon.
Thanks for sharing! That's a great list of classics. Several of them are among my favorites. Classic science fiction is the second largest part of my collection (after children's books).
I have difficulty ranking books, though, particularly across different authors, because the things that resonate with me often vary widely from book to book (and from author to author), so my criteria aren't always consistent, making comparisons apples to oranges sometimes.
Instead, I prefer to group my favorite books into tiers, so there are clear distinctions between the tiers, but within each tier the books are generally unranked. Also, it's difficult for me to maintain precise rankings when my memory of the thousands of books I've read is a little fuzzy because I read many of them decades ago.
I've been wrestling with this question for a few months, because quite a few commenters have requested that I make a variety of ranking videos. I don't have an answer yet, but I'm still thinking about it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Excellent discussion! I hope retirement serves prof. Vinge well.
Welp....Peace War just jumped to the near top of my list. Wonderful.
Great! I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Save room near the top of your list for more of Vinge's books. They get even better. Thanks for sharing your experience.
RIP Mr. Vinge
Thank you, Bridger. Great to learn more about Vinge's work. That Bubbles series appeals to me.
Deepness is in my TBR, but Rainbow's End came to my awareness and I instantly secured a copy, being fascinated with our real world near future and the coming changes.
I will have the experience of reading it without having read Fast Times (which sounds awesome too), and I hope to have a better experience with it than you. Sounds like the novel is an expanded rewrite rather than a sequel, maybe?
Still looking forward to your Robert McCammon video!
Say, how about one on Ira Levin? I bet you like him too.
Cheers, Seven 🚀
Thanks, Seven! I hope you enjoy those Vinge books at least as much as I do. An expanded rewrite of Fast Times at Fairmont High is an apt way of describing Rainbows End.
The McCammon video is coming, but not in time for Halloween, unfortunately. I've had a lot of (non-channel) commitments recently that have consumed much of my time and pushed back my video production schedule. He's still high on my list of upcoming videos, though.
I've only read two books by Levin -- The Boys from Brazil and Rosemary's Baby -- both of which I enjoyed. I think I've seen every film adaptation of his works, though. :)
So are you unaware of This Perfect Day, his only real Sci-Fi novel, but you do know Sliver and Deathtrap? The latter being utterly brilliant.
What I admire with Ira Levin is that he wrote a few novels, but crafted them very carefully, exploring different genres, thriller, whodunit, horror, scifi..
And every one of his novels was a success and adapted to the screen, except This Perfect Day whose mind-blowing ending stayed with me forever (probably because I was still a teenager and hadn't lost enough innocence yet).
For me This Perfect Day is a cautionary tale that belongs with 1984, We, Brave New World and a few others.
This novel is really the missing piece that prevents people from apprehending fully Ira Levin and his talent.
I hope you'll give this book a try sometimes. I'm going to give it a re-read..
Thanks for the suggestion about This Perfect Day. I'm not familiar with it, but will now check it out. I just confirmed that I've watched all but one of his film adaptations (including Sliver and Deathtrap; in fact, I introduced Deathtrap to my teenage kids about six months ago). The only one I haven't seen is a 2003 TV adaptation of his last play, Footsteps. It's amazing that the same person who wrote No Time for Sergeants also wrote Rosemary's Baby. He had impressive range.
Tell ya what, I've only read The 2 Zones of Thought books, and i am looking forward to reading the Children of the Sky when i can get round to it. I looked around and was unimpressed by Vinge's other works, but your 2 videos on him convinced me to give them a shot, just not to expect the same level of absolute masterpieces that A deepness in the Sky and Fire upon the deep were... When i'm going to get round to them is another matter entirely! :))
Great! That was my goal when I made these two videos -- to convince people to read more of his works. His first two Zones of Thought books are the pinnacle of his output, but there's plenty to enjoy in his other books. Thanks for watching and sharing!
You’ve just given me more books to read
That is my new calling in life. 😀
THANKYOU
You're welcome! I hope you enjoy the video.
Rest in peace Mr vinge.
Glad you are feeling better. Another gem of a video. With Halloween around the corner, any chance of covering some horror authors or novels? Thanks
Thank you! I have a couple of horror-themed videos planned for October (and a possible third one if I have time), including overviews of legendary horror publisher Arkham House and the horror novels of Dan Simmons.
@@thelibraryladder sweet, thanks! My horror reading experience has been mainly Stephen King but I would like to expand my horizons. Thanks and until the next video
A Fire Upon the Deep is so good.
I agree!
Fire Upon the Deep is so good.
I completely agree. Thanks for watching!
Only read “Fire’ and thought it amazing. “Deepness” is on my radar, but I’d never heard of “Children” at all. So will dig that one up too.
Wonderful! I hope you enjoy them. Thanks for watching!
I wonder if Vinge's bobbling was based on Brian Stableford's "The Walking Shadow" (1979)?
Good question! I've never read that book by Stableford. It's now on my TBR list . Thanks for the suggestion!
I loved both A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky. I was super excited when I heard Children of the Sky was coming out. I was pretty disappointed by it. It had no feeling of suspense like Fire did and that non-ending ... What an unfortunate ending to the trilogy.
I would have liked a stronger ending to the trilogy as well. Fortunately, both of the first two books can be read as standalones and don't need the third book to tell complete stories.
@@thelibraryladder Agreed. 100% I've read A Fire Upon the Deep several times and will probably read it again. I definitely want to reread Deepness. I don't see myself ever reading Children of the Sky again.
I was mixed on Fire Upon the Deep, I have difficulty connecting to children in stories and it seems like it the Tines subplot focused the children perspective.
Also, I’m curious if you’ve read Blindsight or any of Peter Watts. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for the great channel and work!
Thanks for sharing! You hit on exactly what I think is the weakest aspect of A Fire Upon the Deep. Vinge doesn't do a great job with the two children's POVs. Their behaviors felt a little contrived and annoying at times. Fortunately, much of the book is told from the perspective of other characters, including the Tines, who are far more interesting than the kids.
It's also the reason why I'm less enthusiastic about the sequel, The Children of the Sky, since the plot largely revolves around the children.
I've enjoyed reading Watts, although he's a bit of a handful. Definitely not light reading. He's on my list of authors to feature in a future video.
Curious to see your opinion on Tad Williams and Brandon Sanderson. I love both writing styles.
Thanks for the suggestions! I have a video retrospective of Williams' books planned for later this fall (November?).
I've enjoyed most of Sanderson's books, but I don't have plans to make videos about them anytime soon (except perhaps for the final Alcatraz book). Sanderson already gets a lot of attention in the UA-cam echo chamber, and I'm more focused on highlighting authors and books that aren't well-represented on YT.
Project Hail Mary and Three Body problem spoilers below! tread lightly
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Those spider crab aliens sounds like the aliens from Project Hail Mary mixed with the aliens from The Three Body Problem.
Very fun to see a possible influence on these newer works
Vinge seems to have ushered in an alien arachnid renaissance with A Deepness in the Sky, making space spiders cool. Tchaikovsky's Children of Time is another one to add to the list (although those spiders aren't entirely alien).
@@thelibraryladder It is also true that evolution just keeps turning things into crabs. It's really a superb body form
Personally, I've always hoped to evolve into a tardigrade. :D
FROM BATTLE OF THE BOOKS STM
Any other hard sci fi recommendations please 🙏
Some hard SF authors I recommend include Greg Egan, Larry Niven (including books co-written with Jerry Pournelle), Charles Stross, Robert Charles Wilson, Kim Stanley Robinson, and Neal Stephenson, just to name a few.
Who is this megastar, and what is it he wants to share. After thousands of years of searching, humans stand on the verge of first contact with an alien race, we fall in depth with this planetary confinement. Luckily, he wrote another version in the 70's and came up in the 90's with a whole new concept, I liked both, their not equipped mentally to understand and feel the future.
I loved 'A Fire Upon the Deep' and devoured it fairly quickly. However, I have stopped reading 'A Deepness in the Sky' as I just cannot get into it. The spider people's society bored me to be honest. It was a bit of a slog to get through. I'm sure one day I will re-attempt this book as so many people hold it in high regard.
I also read most of 'Rainbow's End' but also found it a bit of a slog. I've actually given up three quarters of the way in! Is it worth finishing? I agree about the characters being thoroughly unlikable and the plot getting lost among all the clever clever ideas. I am however fascinated by the Rabbit character. If only he/she was in it more.
I'm sorry to hear that the spiders didn't live up to your expectations. I like to think of them as an analogue to humanity if we were to be visited, observed and manipulated by a hidden group of space aliens. (Wait...might that have already happened? :D )
Since you're already 3/4 through it, you should finish Rainbow's End. It has a pretty exciting climax, and Rabbit plays an important, albeit ambiguous, role in it. Thanks for watching and sharing!
A fire upon the deep sounds like it is setting up a PnP RPG.
I hadn't ever thought of it that way, but I can easily see your point!
That voice, though. Like flossing one's brain with a silk scarf.
The Tine's world is in the low Beyond, right at the border actually, not the low Slow Zone.
What is with this noise when you speak in this video?
The noise floor of this video is higher than usual because I was hoarse when I filmed it, resulting in a weaker audio signal. That forced me to boost the audio gain when editing the video, which also accentuated the raspiness of my hoarse throat.
Your delivery of this info (coupled with the throbbing techno soundtrack) makes it seem like you’re talking about conspiracy theories. That or you’re trying to of wake a baby offscreen
Thanks for the feedback. I avoid conspiracy theories like I avoid the plague, so I'm not sure what a conspiracy theorist on BookTube would even sound like. Instead, I was aiming to convey an slight air of mystery to my plot descriptions in an effort to avoid spoilers.