To be fair, I designed it without the difficult to eject quirk. That was added later by the writer. Also a side note worth mentioning: I also designed it as a lighter Battlemaster version. Despite what the fluff says ;)
TBH, it would have benefitted with the Command Mech quirk. I see this as a mech that hangs back from the thick of the fighting, ridden by a general or a VIP.
I agree. Sadly, I didn't get assigned the fluff for that one. But I did something similar to the Stalking Spider II when I wrote the fluff and assigned the quirks. So I can't complain too much. 😇
Oh neat! To be fair, I actually kinda love how cruel this machine is towards its pilots. I gotta call a spade a spade though XD I think the Centre Torso Cockpit is really where things start to fall apart, but that's just me. Still, I think its a beautiful looking mech :)
I've just finished a game where the Götterdämmerung received 3 head shots over a course of 4 rounds. The opponent eas really frustrated.On top of that the armour was damaged so badly I voluntary turned my torso back at the foe as this was the only piece of armour left. And despite that Götterdämmerung just refused to die. Loved playing it.
An example of how torso cockpits don't really mesh with traditional BT artstyles. It's supposed to be an enclosed system to protect the pilot but then the actual art design just has the same old ferroglass canopy in the exact same place as every other mech design has its head. Makes you wonder why it should even be difficult to eject from there.
Well even some of the oldest mech designs should have had a Torso cockpit instead of a Head cockpit. Mechs such as the Marauder, Archer, Rifleman and Longbow for example.
Actually, given the description as depicted above, the ejection system ought to launch the pilot * upwards and towards* the enemy 'mechs he's just been fighting! This can lead towards gallows humor such as 'PULL!" or "Hey, lemme catch 'im!"
This is the kind of Mech I love to homebrew. Terrible designs have a special place in my heart... And I'm not just saying that because I'm trying to short stock in several Mech design companies.
Yes, Battletech and Car Wars are the two games where you could take a lemon design, tear everything out of it, and then rebuild/reequip it to specs that you can label a winner.
I really never understood the point of a compact engine. I can't imagine any circumstance in which the small amount of extra space and slightly harder to destroy engine could possibly be worth the massive consumption of tonnage.
Considering how many mechs I lost over the years to lucky head shots, I do like the torso mounted cockpit, but I think it needs some additional perks to really work. The Osteon comes to mind.
Count up how many mechs you lost to a lucky headshot. Now compare that to how many you lost to having your CT cored. And remember: you can still get punked if your opponent rolls a 2 and gets a CT crit that rolls pilot.
@@Chris_Sizemore Three head shot kills in *one* game, by a single player.. Two Clan ER PPC and a lousy SRM followed be a well placed AC/10 from an Urban Mech that downed my Marauder II Was it bad luck? Yes! But things like that stay with you.
The mech is well designed for the true hidden purpose it has. To cut definitively and of course eternally, the career of those who by their skill and competence are a risk to the careers of social generals.
Love the new format for your mech breakdowns. And while totally unfamiliar with these latter eras of Battletech it's a joy to listen when you get really into praising or tearing into a design.
One for the unscrupulous Lyran arms dealers to sell to the Periphery world of Elbonia. "A mech that goes beyond the usual exposing the pilot in a thinly armoured head module to encase them in the best protected part of the mech, while loading a respectable amount of energy weapons that don't tax the logistics chain and a missile system mounted high enough to provide an excellent field of fire. Ejection system? Oh it has one, but the armour is so good the pilot hardly needs it. Yes the compact engine makes it look a little pricey, but trust me, it's a bargain."
God I can imagine the first reports coming in from pilots that used this thing only to check on their status as either KIA in combat due to overheat or KIA by failure to eject. Goes to show that the MIC in BattleTech must go on, even if the designs literally kills the pilot faster than the fighting does.
The notable deployment in the TRO has it lauded for being extremely hardy, with the pilot being the last survivor of his unit. It's also surprisingly hard to kill your pilot via overheating in the Gotterdamerung as it sinks 24 each turn and builds up 25 from the medium lasers, letting you hit fire off four each turn. The ER PPC is the real issue with regards to heat IMO, and would benefit from being a less advanced version of the weapon like a normal PPC or a Snub version.
@@phantam23 IS ER PPCs just don't seem worth it on any design. I can justify the Clan versions because they are head clippers, but 15 for 10 just doesn't seem worth it.
Jesus the Wobbie pilots who were literally sealed in their mechs do die fighting had a higher survival rate than Gotterdamerung pilots ... poor bastards
It can be saved however,but it ups the cost by 260k C-bills and ups the BV from 1727 to 1867. Keep the Endo chassis; LFE; 14.5 ton Std Armour; 16(32)h/s; HPPC(RA); LRM-15(LT)(2 tons ammo);CASE II(LT); Std Cockpit & Gyro; 2xERML(CT); 2xERML(RT); MPL(H); SSRM4(LA); Ammo(LT). Crits:78/78.
I love the Turtle. Not because it's effective, but because it's just so goddamn goofy. Anything made for Solaris tends to be a certain level of batsh*t crazy and the Turtle sure fits that bill. Thing has some token weapons and mostly would need to kick or ram enemies to death, but good luck getting through that armor.
That picture is clipped to look like the mech has a giant codpiece. It took way too long to process that it was torso twisted and we are seeing it's right hip.
When there's government contracts and all their associated money up for grabs, you know someone's going to try. Someone will always be willing to walk up to the procurement committees and say "hey, I've got a great product to replace that tired old thing that we've been using since the fall of Star League!"
seems simple just get rid of the lrm15 and replace it with more double heat sinks. now it no longer needs case and has enough heat dispersion to be cool running.
Is Lyran Looks sick Has a great name *Le glad* Stinks in tabletop Canonically bad Isn't an assault *le sad* Ah well, still gonna paint it up. Good thing BT is so good with "make due" mechs.
I actually find the Gotterdammerung to be a hardy, survivable machine. One worthy of the frontline. While it definitely echoes the Lyran staple Aerospace fighter the Lucifer in not having an ejection mechanism and encouraging either a well-executed retreat or a fight to the death, my experience with it is that of a Mech just won't die. The LRM ammo cooking off blasts the head clear without affecting the rest of the mech, the M Lasers are all stuffed in the torso giving it more critical spots and avoiding hits to the new cockpit location or engine. While it can't do as much damage as some other heavy mechs, I've not lost a pilot running it in an ATB Megamek campaign as it's resilience lets it withdraw from the battlefield if it's in critical condition (albeit slowly, but I'm a Lyran fan so It keeps pace with the rest of the lance), and even if it loses Life Support, it can fire four lasers each turn without taking pilot damage unless Plasma or Flamers are being thrown around. I do agree with your assessment that it degrades in combat effectiveness quickly, with stacking PR modifiers and hit penalties as it loses side torsos, but I've found that it isn't the deathtrap it's made out to be in the video.
I've not used it myself, but I've been unimpressed with the games I witnessed it used in. One it fell over until the pilot blacked out. The other example was it getting hammered with a few heavy fired to the CT, and then a crit hit its compact Gyro :\
@@BigRed40TECH That sounds about right. It's either incredibly hardy and blasting with 4 lasers per turn while missing entire chunks of torso, or on its back with the pilot unconscious. At the least the Mechwarrior inside tends to survive in a campaign game assuming some level of rescue/retrieval is possible.
The Götterdämmerung of the Gods is relatively easy to fix if you replace the components with clan variants, which still makes it very interesting for richer mercenaries and the Thunderbolt wasn't always the best either. The Götterdämmerung of the Gods is still new.
I was just a Marine ground pounder when I was in the military but that ejection system is absolutely horrifying. One of the first actual battles of the invasion of Iraq was in Nasiriyah, trying to chase down and rescue Jessica Lynch. We won pretty quickly, but not before some AAVs from 1st Battalion 2nd Marines were ambush with RPGs and tanks, killing 18 Marines inside. I tell you this to emphasize how absolutely sickening that escape system is. Not that the AAV was hard to get out of, but I know first hand what happens if you don't have time to get out. Truly a system that could only be designed by a pencil pusher.
Well they can't all be winners, glad they add these kinds of designs it makes the universe feel more alive. Rather than having EVERY last mech over designed, and mid maxed like a try hard gamer. On another note hope we get models for some super heavy mechs. There cool, and the Ironwind ones look alright, I just don't really want to build a relatively small model that comes with 22 separate pieces.
Nice to hear they still make tractors in the future :-) a mech no pilot would want to use is next to useless...if forced to use you'd have the over complicated ejection system on its last stage permanently just in case :-)
Made my own version based off the image. Definatly not a zombie: 75 ton 4/6/0, armored cockpit, 300 light engine with a compact gyro, 13 IS-double heat sinks endo-steel with 19-ton Ballistic- Reinforced armor Heavy PPC, LRM15+ArtIV, 2-ton Art-LRM15 ammo, IS-CASE II(pick a side torso), 5 IS ER-medium lasers (2LT,1CT,2RT) MegaMek BV:2134 15,610,000 C-bills
Overlays were good. Could have done with some variety of pictures, but I'm sure there is a lack of those for newer mechs. As for torso cockpits, go with a Evangelion Plug system. Would be weird for BT, but torso cockpits are weird
How on Earth did they manage to make a ejection system that probably has unintentionally killed more pilots then the one that you can set off by punching the center torso or the hatchet man's "your head is now a plane, have fun" systems? Edit: 4:31 they WHAT
@@BigRed40TECH honestly I'd say I'm halfway impressed they managed to make a mech that somehow is more dangerous than the spiders lack of ejection system, because at least with the spider you know for a fact that you need to run away
I’m glad to see House Steiner embracing their German heritage and designing overpriced, over complicated, and over designed war machines. Now all the Gotter needs is to break its transmission every couple of days.
It's more like the Ferdinand than the Tiger I. Note that the infantry vulnerability of the Ferdinand is given this 'mech which has a rear-launching ejection system. Imagine an Elemental climbing up its back, finding the exterior hatch, and ripping it loose. Now the Elemental has a clear SL shot directly into the cockpit! Or the pilot can panic and eject...straight to the rear, allowing an on-table position that the Elemental point can easily locate and race to intercept. (They won't kill the pilot though; capturing mechwarriors in need of emergency pants is a joy and delight to them!)
die Götterdämmerung ist relativ einfach zu fixen wenn man die Komponenten durch Clan varianten ersetzt das mach ihn für reichere Söldner immer noch sehr interessant und der Thunderbolt war auch nicht immer das Beste Gewesen die Götterdämmerung ist noch neu.
Part of what makes the Mech workable is the lack of ammo in it. The only ton of ammo is based in the head, where even if it explodes it doesn't damage the rest of the mech. I'd rather downgrade the PPC to a Snub PPC or a Laser. Something with 10 or under heat, with any weight savings thrown into a couple of heat sinks in the side torsos so the life support isn't the first to go.
On paper, I like it. In practice, I'd toss the lrm, and possibly the erppc, as much as I love ppcs, this thing needs something better. Maybe an ac10 in both arms? That would solve all the heat issues. Oh, or even a pair of ac5s in both arms, though that might lead to ammo issues.
The mech requires help, as it is its terrible. If quirks were an option i would go with Stable and AES to deal with the aiming problem. If not a Targeting Computer. Also drop the Compact Engine for at least a standard engine, if not a light engine. That lets you drop the endo-steel, freeing up more space. At that point just cram in as many long range weapons you can. Armor the Cockpit to prevent BBs from taking it out, maybe even armor the life support units, and if possible fix the ejection system. This mech could have been at least a functional threat.
Wow, where to start? First the Torso mount Cockpit. I've never cared for them. I get the Idea, wrap the pilot in more armor. But, every member in a military is always taught to aim center mass(biggest target). If your pilot happens to be there, bad things happen. Next, the Ejection sequence: what the hell happened to the old fashion 'flip the big plastic cover up; push big red button'? And rear ward ejects are also bad things waiting to happen. One ton of ammo? No Artemis or CASE? Are we sure this is a Lyran design, and not one from a Bandit Kingdom?
The one ton of ammo actually makes sense as it keeps all the ammo in the head, the one location which doesn't carry over damage if hit, meaning it doesn't need CASE on it as ammo explosions will blow off the launcher and head mounted sensors without transferring damage to the rest of the mech. Torso Cockpit rules mean it can't eject during a scenario, which makes the difficult ejection quirk redundant. Mechwarriors in a torso cockpit are going down with the ship if their mech is destroyed in combat as is, the Gotterdammerung's is just more cumbersome. It keeps everything in the CT, which reduces the chance of torso crits hitting the pilot, and lets it operate 4 of the 5 ER M lasers while remaining heat neutral even with no arms or side torsos. It's biggest weakness, as Red mentioned, is the anemic weapons load for a Mech its size, and the exceptionally vulnerable life support systems in the side torsos, and even those don't matter that much as it only means you lose out on 1 ER M laser per turn.
@@BigRed40TECH No heatsinks to lose, they're all part of the engine. Of course then there's engine crits, which are even more deadly to the pilot, but the compact engine does work to minimise that.
@@phantam23 Thats one thing about CT crits that never made sense with Torso cockpits: once you start taking hits there, it should end up like the vehicle crew compartment rules. As for ammo; in the current setting, with all of the AMS and EWS, 1 ton of ammo is nothing but an annoyance(unless you are running Thunders or Swarm's).
@@gregdomenico1891 I like packing smokes on the launcher and using it to help shroud the advance of the other lancemates. While it sometimes dissipates before anyone can make use of it, it's generally pretty good support and gets people to shoot the Gotty rather than my slowly advancing assaults. Propping up and firing and careful stands help with the difficulty it has in standing back up as well. Assuming non "cyborg torso in a can" pilots, It's one of the better torso cockpit mechs I've used, though torso cockpits just come with multiple tons of baggage that make them less desirable.
So yeah, they took a mech that was famous for being tough, reliable, economical, and a pretty good jack of all trades heavy mech. Which also has some really impressive modern upgrades. Decided that wasn’t good enough so they designed a whole new neck to try to replace it with all this brand new advanced tech. And shock of shocks, it’s turns into a massively overpriced buggy mess that has none of the originals strengths and a lot more weaknesses. Speaking as a Thunderbolt fangirl, it’s a sin that they even tried to design this mech. And by the Lord and Lady, who thought you that cockpit ejection system! If that wasn’t a case of deliberate espionage and sabotage then I’m shocked a few Mechwarriors haven’t taken their machines for a joyride through Blackstone’s battlemech factory. And I get it, I really do… giving this thing that much armor I can support that. You want these things to come home but why even bother up armoring the damn thing if you arnt going to give it CASE. Well, I hope the Lyran noble who approved this damn thing enjoys the fat stacks of c-bills they received from Blackstone and whoever else wanted this approved. They can enjoy it up until the fucking clanners, kuritans, or sessionist rebels conquer their worlds because the LCAF pilots that’s would be defending them are busy dying in the cockpits of the useless hunk of metal.
I suppose you really liked getting the new boxed set with the T-bolt as a prominent 'mech, right? I like Thunderbolts too, and I like the upgrades done for up-timeline eras which keep it very competitive. The Gotterdammerung is a an in-universe example of Pentagon design bloat affecting the vehicle's actual performance, as opposed to the stats which wow the procurement brass and congresscritters.
A lot of the issues stem from the Torso-Mounted Cockpit system, which makes balancing more difficult and emergency ejection impossible. This applies across the board for all Torso-Mounted Cockpits, and the Gotterdammerung's added difficulty in dismounting doesn't really change much as pilots in a torso cockpit don't get the luxury of leaving if their mech goes down. It's a different beast from the modern TBolt, taking the Trooper element and being tougher and more survivable compared to the more recent Lyran Thunderbolt designs, which tend to mount either TSM or Jump Jets to let them keep up with the Medium/Maneuvre elements. Due to the way it is designed it doesn't really need CASE, as the only ammo is in the head, making it not only very hard to hit, but which also blows off safely without transferring damage to the rest of the Mech. On top of that, all 12 of its double heat sinks are in the Engine, letting it keep its maximum cooling capacity even with side torso destruction. I've used it in a campaign and found that it keeps the pilot alive better than most, assuming the mech doesn't get completely destroyed. The biggest weakness is its habit of falling down and being unable to stand up in a reasonable amount of time, though the careful stand rules/options help it get back to its feet without causing the comical spiral of tumbling over you might get. Outside of pilot survivability, the Thunderbolt 17S is just flat out better though.
Since this video's release a few new variants have been released. The GTD-30S is even more battlemastery, and pretty cheap for what it does. And the GTD-20C is a horror show. Ferrolam and upgrades all its weapons to clanspec. And on top of that it's actually not that expensive for a mech that hits as hard and is as tough as it is.
I find it funny that my custom Guillotine variant without any clan tech can maul this thing to death while being heat neutral till I don't want it to be and nearly has the same armor
I came into the video thinking "It can't be all that bad". Frick, was I mistaken. LRM 15 with one ton and no case? Yeah,no. 12 dhs for an esentially energy boat? OOF. Ejection that would make me prefer getting cooked by the engine?
CASE isn't needed, it's head mounted so an ammo explosion blasts the head clear without damaging the rest of the mech. Does wreck the Mech's sensors though, which messes it's ability to land hits. Helps to downgrade the LRM to a 10 in a Campaign to stick in a ton of alternate ammo, and use the last ton to armour that cockpit.
The problem with it stems from its cockpit, to be fair. Even if the rest of the machine improved, that cockpit would always be a burden. in MWO, that just doesn't apply.
More than anything else, it reminds me of one thing about its name, and that's that Richard Wagner wanted to stage the opera of that name in a purpose built opera house, that would be set on fire as part of the finale. Understandably, no city in what would become Germany would agree to such a stupid idea. Like Wagner's idea, its a gigantic flaming, overly complex monument to excess, that has no regard for human life.
Lovely design, but Jesus crist they might install a gun in the cockpit to shoot the poilet if the poilet tries to eject. Because it seems they want the poilet dead
Remove all weapons. Cram as many MG as you can, with tons of ammo. Remove all heatsinks save 1, max armor and paint shark teeth on the sides . Color the mech bright red to give it an extra boost of speed. Remove the ejection system and give this mech to a penal legion or something. Survive 1 campaign on the frontline and you're free to go.
The thing that truly bugs me about it is that it's also a 32nd century design that STILL makes the mistake of New Toy Syndrome. Those 12 DHS? They'd be at least somewhat adequate if you just mounted ye olde bog-standard medium laser for the close-in battery instead of going with ERs. And it'd be a neat 200k C-Bills cheaper, too!
Going into the way-back machine - but why does a mech have to be able to shoot most of its weapons to be considered effective? If they were smart and went with standard medium lasers, you drop the LRM for 3-5 ML's when within the minimum range depending on your heat profile and you're fine. I love a good bracket fire mech like the Warhammer or Battlemaster where you drop a PPC for a bunch of short range weapons if someone is inside the minimum range. I always felt that that compact engine/gyro were WAY too expensive from a tonnage perspective for the relatively limited benefit.
Hi a questions, no one has done a review on the heavy rifle, dont laugh, it is close to a cause rifle, it has more amo, and on craby the hero king crab can carry 4, with 4 tons of amo each, I have head shot Atlases and others, so why is it so disliked ? Thanks leona, PS I am just starting with mech warrior 5, I have managed to track down 2 3 4 ans some of the updates, 2 only runs on my AMD sx 40, running Dos 6.22 and Win 3.11 for work groups.
This thing would be well served by using less sophisticated weapons, like standard MLs and a SNPPC, or an AC5. That heat burden and lack of case (which ought be case2) is its greatest flaw I think. Give it a good couple tours, get the design refined, could be the next banshee. But, like the early Banshee, all it can do right now is kill its pilots.
It doesn't actually need CASE, as the one ton of LRM ammo is stored in the head and doesn't transfer to any other part of the mech and blows out safely, along with the LRM launcher. It also takes out some of the sensors reducing the Mechs accuracy with its other weapons, but it was going to lose that anyway if the head exploded.
Can someone please tell me who made this monstrosity? I'm telling you right now this thing must have been made by somebody who wanted people to commit suicide on the board game. I'll take a thunderbolt any day of the week thank you very much especially the ones I build.
I am the very model of a modern Lyran BattleMech, I use the very latest and the most expensive of the tech, I'm designed by a committee of the military ignorant, And tend to get my pilots killed in ways that are most flagarant! (And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!) (And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!) (And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!)
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
To be fair, I designed it without the difficult to eject quirk. That was added later by the writer.
Also a side note worth mentioning: I also designed it as a lighter Battlemaster version. Despite what the fluff says ;)
TBH, it would have benefitted with the Command Mech quirk. I see this as a mech that hangs back from the thick of the fighting, ridden by a general or a VIP.
I agree. Sadly, I didn't get assigned the fluff for that one.
But I did something similar to the Stalking Spider II when I wrote the fluff and assigned the quirks. So I can't complain too much. 😇
Oh neat!
To be fair, I actually kinda love how cruel this machine is towards its pilots. I gotta call a spade a spade though XD
I think the Centre Torso Cockpit is really where things start to fall apart, but that's just me. Still, I think its a beautiful looking mech :)
I was getting Zeus vibes based on the weaponry. PPC, 5 tons of lasers and an LRM 15.
I simply decided to go all in and see where it'd ends up. Didn't go so well 🤣
I've just finished a game where the Götterdämmerung received 3 head shots over a course of 4 rounds. The opponent eas really frustrated.On top of that the armour was damaged so badly I voluntary turned my torso back at the foe as this was the only piece of armour left. And despite that Götterdämmerung just refused to die. Loved playing it.
An example of how torso cockpits don't really mesh with traditional BT artstyles. It's supposed to be an enclosed system to protect the pilot but then the actual art design just has the same old ferroglass canopy in the exact same place as every other mech design has its head. Makes you wonder why it should even be difficult to eject from there.
It doesn't eject upwards. It ejects out the back of the mech. lol
@@BigRed40TECH Blake help you if your back is to the wall.
@@BigRed40TECH It really needs to be context sensitive ejection.
Well even some of the oldest mech designs should have had a Torso cockpit instead of a Head cockpit. Mechs such as the Marauder, Archer, Rifleman and Longbow for example.
Actually, given the description as depicted above, the ejection system ought to launch the pilot * upwards and towards* the enemy 'mechs he's just been fighting! This can lead towards gallows humor such as 'PULL!" or "Hey, lemme catch 'im!"
Pilots that want to escape have to do the challenges from the Legends of the Hidden Temple to escape
I'm sure they can complete the challenge in time to eject :D
TBH it sounds like a lyran thing to stream that and take bets at least for the generals
They mostly end up slimed
This is the kind of Mech I love to homebrew. Terrible designs have a special place in my heart... And I'm not just saying that because I'm trying to short stock in several Mech design companies.
Shorting Blackstone, given the GTD, is a great idea.
Fact, torso cockpit is made by the nais but the Davions never use it much.
Yes, Battletech and Car Wars are the two games where you could take a lemon design, tear everything out of it, and then rebuild/reequip it to specs that you can label a winner.
That’s definitely not a King Crab. Steiner should be ashamed of itself. KING CRAB GANG!
Carcinization is real.
Gotterdammerung is accurate the mechwarrior is most certainly experiencing it in a near constant basis in every battle they fight in.
I like this thing as "Boss Fight" for Dark Age narrative games.
Ooooooooh. More Dark Age stuff. One day, there will be a Lament. ONE DAY!
Gotterdammerung got its name from the MechWarriors piloting it cursing as their lungs filled with blood due to a botched ejection.
Damn Lyrans. I mean I'm also ambitious but at least I use my brain!
House Steiner designers: ua-cam.com/video/hG3mJcUzwaI/v-deo.html&ab_channel=CinemaCut
I really never understood the point of a compact engine. I can't imagine any circumstance in which the small amount of extra space and slightly harder to destroy engine could possibly be worth the massive consumption of tonnage.
Oh yeah... I use this in the table top as one of the Bounty Hunters lancemates.
Gotterdam you mean God Damn Steiner!!
Considering how many mechs I lost over the years to lucky head shots, I do like the torso mounted cockpit, but I think it needs some additional perks to really work. The Osteon comes to mind.
I think I've lost more pilots to knockouts, than head-shots directly.
Count up how many mechs you lost to a lucky headshot. Now compare that to how many you lost to having your CT cored. And remember: you can still get punked if your opponent rolls a 2 and gets a CT crit that rolls pilot.
@@Chris_Sizemore Three head shot kills in *one* game, by a single player.. Two Clan ER PPC and a lousy SRM followed be a well placed AC/10 from an Urban Mech that downed my Marauder II
Was it bad luck? Yes! But things like that stay with you.
This sounds like the best mech to give to your enemies
This mech can be fixed with a standard 300 fusion engine. Take the reduction in weight for more weapons or ammo or heatsinks.
Such a strong name for a delightfully "average" mech.
Like naming your dog savage, and it's the sweetest good boi ever.
The mech is well designed for the true hidden purpose it has. To cut definitively and of course eternally, the career of those who by their skill and competence are a risk to the careers of social generals.
Love the new format for your mech breakdowns. And while totally unfamiliar with these latter eras of Battletech it's a joy to listen when you get really into praising or tearing into a design.
good news! here is your new mech! mechwarrior "oh god damn, i am done." engineer "hey that is a good name, we will call it the gotterdammrung!"
One for the unscrupulous Lyran arms dealers to sell to the Periphery world of Elbonia. "A mech that goes beyond the usual exposing the pilot in a thinly armoured head module to encase them in the best protected part of the mech, while loading a respectable amount of energy weapons that don't tax the logistics chain and a missile system mounted high enough to provide an excellent field of fire.
Ejection system? Oh it has one, but the armour is so good the pilot hardly needs it.
Yes the compact engine makes it look a little pricey, but trust me, it's a bargain."
It looks like the bastard offspring of a Battlemaster and a Cataphract. I like it.
God I can imagine the first reports coming in from pilots that used this thing only to check on their status as either KIA in combat due to overheat or KIA by failure to eject.
Goes to show that the MIC in BattleTech must go on, even if the designs literally kills the pilot faster than the fighting does.
The notable deployment in the TRO has it lauded for being extremely hardy, with the pilot being the last survivor of his unit. It's also surprisingly hard to kill your pilot via overheating in the Gotterdamerung as it sinks 24 each turn and builds up 25 from the medium lasers, letting you hit fire off four each turn. The ER PPC is the real issue with regards to heat IMO, and would benefit from being a less advanced version of the weapon like a normal PPC or a Snub version.
@@phantam23 IS ER PPCs just don't seem worth it on any design. I can justify the Clan versions because they are head clippers, but 15 for 10 just doesn't seem worth it.
Jesus the Wobbie pilots who were literally sealed in their mechs do die fighting had a higher survival rate than Gotterdamerung pilots ... poor bastards
This is one of those mechs you wanna use just because it looks cool regardless of its lackluster performance
It can be saved however,but it ups the cost by 260k C-bills and ups the BV from 1727 to 1867. Keep the Endo chassis; LFE; 14.5 ton Std Armour; 16(32)h/s; HPPC(RA); LRM-15(LT)(2 tons ammo);CASE II(LT); Std Cockpit & Gyro; 2xERML(CT); 2xERML(RT); MPL(H); SSRM4(LA); Ammo(LT). Crits:78/78.
It is more about the pilot than the mech. Any tool used poorly will delivery sub par results.
Putting a high-quality pilot in it, just increases its value too much imo to make it all that usable either.
If you want to look at a design specifically meant to protect the pilot you should look at the great turtle.
I love the Turtle. Not because it's effective, but because it's just so goddamn goofy. Anything made for Solaris tends to be a certain level of batsh*t crazy and the Turtle sure fits that bill. Thing has some token weapons and mostly would need to kick or ram enemies to death, but good luck getting through that armor.
@@BoisegangGaming Just give it some reliable energy weapons and let the Great Turtle march on!
I was always a fan of the torso mounted cockpit and VRPP! *hugs the Unbound module and Daedalus battlemech*
That picture is clipped to look like the mech has a giant codpiece. It took way too long to process that it was torso twisted and we are seeing it's right hip.
Thought maybe it had a very special melee weapon.
The thing has a deployable slide?
LYRAN ENGINEERING IS ZE BEST IN ZE SPHERE!
Honestly if mechs like the thunderbolt had lasted for 300-500 years without or little challenge then a folly to even try to make a replacement design
When there's government contracts and all their associated money up for grabs, you know someone's going to try. Someone will always be willing to walk up to the procurement committees and say "hey, I've got a great product to replace that tired old thing that we've been using since the fall of Star League!"
@@EmperorPylades true
If I want a mech that can take constant fire I rather use a banshee
It’s not folly, it’s a fucking sin. I’d take one of the upgraded Thunderbolts against this thing any day.
seems simple just get rid of the lrm15 and replace it with more double heat sinks. now it no longer needs case and has enough heat dispersion to be cool running.
Is Lyran
Looks sick
Has a great name
*Le glad*
Stinks in tabletop
Canonically bad
Isn't an assault
*le sad*
Ah well, still gonna paint it up. Good thing BT is so good with "make due" mechs.
Say what you will about this mech, but I still love it.
Oh it's a wonderful looking mech. I just don't think it's very good. But as I said in the video, it's not useless. It's just not as good as the TDR.
I actually find the Gotterdammerung to be a hardy, survivable machine. One worthy of the frontline. While it definitely echoes the Lyran staple Aerospace fighter the Lucifer in not having an ejection mechanism and encouraging either a well-executed retreat or a fight to the death, my experience with it is that of a Mech just won't die.
The LRM ammo cooking off blasts the head clear without affecting the rest of the mech, the M Lasers are all stuffed in the torso giving it more critical spots and avoiding hits to the new cockpit location or engine. While it can't do as much damage as some other heavy mechs, I've not lost a pilot running it in an ATB Megamek campaign as it's resilience lets it withdraw from the battlefield if it's in critical condition (albeit slowly, but I'm a Lyran fan so It keeps pace with the rest of the lance), and even if it loses Life Support, it can fire four lasers each turn without taking pilot damage unless Plasma or Flamers are being thrown around. I do agree with your assessment that it degrades in combat effectiveness quickly, with stacking PR modifiers and hit penalties as it loses side torsos, but I've found that it isn't the deathtrap it's made out to be in the video.
I've not used it myself, but I've been unimpressed with the games I witnessed it used in. One it fell over until the pilot blacked out.
The other example was it getting hammered with a few heavy fired to the CT, and then a crit hit its compact Gyro :\
@@BigRed40TECH That sounds about right. It's either incredibly hardy and blasting with 4 lasers per turn while missing entire chunks of torso, or on its back with the pilot unconscious. At the least the Mechwarrior inside tends to survive in a campaign game assuming some level of rescue/retrieval is possible.
The Götterdämmerung of the Gods is relatively easy to fix if you replace the components with clan variants, which still makes it very interesting for richer mercenaries and the Thunderbolt wasn't always the best either. The Götterdämmerung of the Gods is still new.
sure, but I can also just get a Thunderbolt with Clan-tech too. :\
@@BigRed40TECH exactly!
Since when did more Steiners dying in their mechs become "bad design"?
Bless you
No, Bless the poor pilots left to die in this thing. lol
It should be 4 MP Walking, 6 MP Running.
75 x 4 = 300.
4 x 1.5 = 6.
I was just a Marine ground pounder when I was in the military but that ejection system is absolutely horrifying. One of the first actual battles of the invasion of Iraq was in Nasiriyah, trying to chase down and rescue Jessica Lynch. We won pretty quickly, but not before some AAVs from 1st Battalion 2nd Marines were ambush with RPGs and tanks, killing 18 Marines inside.
I tell you this to emphasize how absolutely sickening that escape system is. Not that the AAV was hard to get out of, but I know first hand what happens if you don't have time to get out. Truly a system that could only be designed by a pencil pusher.
Pilots Put Into This Mech: Oh, *Götterdämmerung* it!
Hmm, which would suck more? Piloting a bombard or this death trap?
At least the Bombard can run away.
Well they can't all be winners, glad they add these kinds of designs it makes the universe feel more alive. Rather than having EVERY last mech over designed, and mid maxed like a try hard gamer.
On another note hope we get models for some super heavy mechs. There cool, and the Ironwind ones look alright, I just don't really want to build a relatively small model that comes with 22 separate pieces.
They make models in IWM for the Super Heavies.
Nice
It's like the Elbownians from Frorgotten Weapons jumped into the Battletech universe and designed a mech.
It would make Gun Jesus 😢
Nice to hear they still make tractors in the future :-) a mech no pilot would want to use is next to useless...if forced to use you'd have the over complicated ejection system on its last stage permanently just in case :-)
What a shame... Such a cool design
It ain't pretty it just looks that way.
Made my own version based off the image. Definatly not a zombie:
75 ton 4/6/0, armored cockpit, 300 light engine with a compact gyro, 13 IS-double heat sinks
endo-steel with 19-ton Ballistic- Reinforced armor
Heavy PPC, LRM15+ArtIV, 2-ton Art-LRM15 ammo, IS-CASE II(pick a side torso), 5 IS ER-medium lasers (2LT,1CT,2RT)
MegaMek BV:2134 15,610,000 C-bills
''Got Her Damn Wrong'' damn right he is.
How... how did the Lyrans allow this... thing... to be built, much less off the design board!?
"Got her damner wrong"
It's in the name. Still cool looking.
Overlays were good. Could have done with some variety of pictures, but I'm sure there is a lack of those for newer mechs. As for torso cockpits, go with a Evangelion Plug system. Would be weird for BT, but torso cockpits are weird
Yea, not much in terms of variety on those new mechs for pictures.
And here I thought you were doing the planet of Gotterdammerung 🙂.
How on Earth did they manage to make a ejection system that probably has unintentionally killed more pilots then the one that you can set off by punching the center torso or the hatchet man's "your head is now a plane, have fun" systems?
Edit: 4:31 they WHAT
CT cockpit. If life support is damaged, you take damage from the reactor if it heats up.
@@BigRed40TECH honestly I'd say I'm halfway impressed they managed to make a mech that somehow is more dangerous than the spiders lack of ejection system, because at least with the spider you know for a fact that you need to run away
This thing really looks like a chonky or beef-up Warhammer. But I guess looks can deceive...
Absolutely.
The Tiger of the Lyran Commonwealth. Yet without the fear... cuz it sucked more than the German Tiger I somehow.
I’m glad to see House Steiner embracing their German heritage and designing overpriced, over complicated, and over designed war machines. Now all the Gotter needs is to break its transmission every couple of days.
It's more like the Ferdinand than the Tiger I. Note that the infantry vulnerability of the Ferdinand is given this 'mech which has a rear-launching ejection system. Imagine an Elemental climbing up its back, finding the exterior hatch, and ripping it loose. Now the Elemental has a clear SL shot directly into the cockpit! Or the pilot can panic and eject...straight to the rear, allowing an on-table position that the Elemental point can easily locate and race to intercept. (They won't kill the pilot though; capturing mechwarriors in need of emergency pants is a joy and delight to them!)
Jesus the Devs straight out have it out for the Steiners don’t they? They’ve been having a terrible time since 3049 to 3151.
die Götterdämmerung ist relativ einfach zu fixen wenn man die Komponenten durch Clan varianten ersetzt das mach ihn für reichere Söldner immer noch sehr interessant und der Thunderbolt war auch nicht immer das Beste Gewesen die Götterdämmerung ist noch neu.
The Gotter might have benefited from using some AC/2 or 5 instead of the ER medium laser's so the mech can run a bit cooler
Part of what makes the Mech workable is the lack of ammo in it. The only ton of ammo is based in the head, where even if it explodes it doesn't damage the rest of the mech. I'd rather downgrade the PPC to a Snub PPC or a Laser. Something with 10 or under heat, with any weight savings thrown into a couple of heat sinks in the side torsos so the life support isn't the first to go.
On paper, I like it. In practice, I'd toss the lrm, and possibly the erppc, as much as I love ppcs, this thing needs something better. Maybe an ac10 in both arms? That would solve all the heat issues. Oh, or even a pair of ac5s in both arms, though that might lead to ammo issues.
The mech requires help, as it is its terrible. If quirks were an option i would go with Stable and AES to deal with the aiming problem. If not a Targeting Computer. Also drop the Compact Engine for at least a standard engine, if not a light engine. That lets you drop the endo-steel, freeing up more space. At that point just cram in as many long range weapons you can. Armor the Cockpit to prevent BBs from taking it out, maybe even armor the life support units, and if possible fix the ejection system. This mech could have been at least a functional threat.
What it really needs, hear me out, is less heatsinks, and more medium lasers. What could go wrong?
@@BigRed40TECH ...Yes, yes that would achieve its goal of dying faster. Or its secret desire of being a Nova Prime.
Wow, where to start? First the Torso mount Cockpit. I've never cared for them. I get the Idea, wrap the pilot in more armor. But, every member in a military is always taught to aim center mass(biggest target). If your pilot happens to be there, bad things happen.
Next, the Ejection sequence: what the hell happened to the old fashion 'flip the big plastic cover up; push big red button'? And rear ward ejects are also bad things waiting to happen. One ton of ammo? No Artemis or CASE? Are we sure this is a Lyran design, and not one from a Bandit Kingdom?
The one ton of ammo actually makes sense as it keeps all the ammo in the head, the one location which doesn't carry over damage if hit, meaning it doesn't need CASE on it as ammo explosions will blow off the launcher and head mounted sensors without transferring damage to the rest of the mech. Torso Cockpit rules mean it can't eject during a scenario, which makes the difficult ejection quirk redundant. Mechwarriors in a torso cockpit are going down with the ship if their mech is destroyed in combat as is, the Gotterdammerung's is just more cumbersome.
It keeps everything in the CT, which reduces the chance of torso crits hitting the pilot, and lets it operate 4 of the 5 ER M lasers while remaining heat neutral even with no arms or side torsos. It's biggest weakness, as Red mentioned, is the anemic weapons load for a Mech its size, and the exceptionally vulnerable life support systems in the side torsos, and even those don't matter that much as it only means you lose out on 1 ER M laser per turn.
Loss of heatsinks + walking/run = 3 ERML a turn
@@BigRed40TECH No heatsinks to lose, they're all part of the engine. Of course then there's engine crits, which are even more deadly to the pilot, but the compact engine does work to minimise that.
@@phantam23 Thats one thing about CT crits that never made sense with Torso cockpits: once you start taking hits there, it should end up like the vehicle crew compartment rules. As for ammo; in the current setting, with all of the AMS and EWS, 1 ton of ammo is nothing but an annoyance(unless you are running Thunders or Swarm's).
@@gregdomenico1891 I like packing smokes on the launcher and using it to help shroud the advance of the other lancemates. While it sometimes dissipates before anyone can make use of it, it's generally pretty good support and gets people to shoot the Gotty rather than my slowly advancing assaults. Propping up and firing and careful stands help with the difficulty it has in standing back up as well.
Assuming non "cyborg torso in a can" pilots, It's one of the better torso cockpit mechs I've used, though torso cockpits just come with multiple tons of baggage that make them less desirable.
I don't recall if I've seen this one before. What book is this one out of? I might have read it, might not, I just don't remember.
Tro 3145 Steiner
So yeah, they took a mech that was famous for being tough, reliable, economical, and a pretty good jack of all trades heavy mech. Which also has some really impressive modern upgrades. Decided that wasn’t good enough so they designed a whole new neck to try to replace it with all this brand new advanced tech. And shock of shocks, it’s turns into a massively overpriced buggy mess that has none of the originals strengths and a lot more weaknesses.
Speaking as a Thunderbolt fangirl, it’s a sin that they even tried to design this mech.
And by the Lord and Lady, who thought you that cockpit ejection system! If that wasn’t a case of deliberate espionage and sabotage then I’m shocked a few Mechwarriors haven’t taken their machines for a joyride through Blackstone’s battlemech factory. And I get it, I really do… giving this thing that much armor I can support that. You want these things to come home but why even bother up armoring the damn thing if you arnt going to give it CASE.
Well, I hope the Lyran noble who approved this damn thing enjoys the fat stacks of c-bills they received from Blackstone and whoever else wanted this approved. They can enjoy it up until the fucking clanners, kuritans, or sessionist rebels conquer their worlds because the LCAF pilots that’s would be defending them are busy dying in the cockpits of the useless hunk of metal.
(Thank you for the effort that went into this video. I’m glad to see more Thunderbolt related content!)
I suppose you really liked getting the new boxed set with the T-bolt as a prominent 'mech, right? I like Thunderbolts too, and I like the upgrades done for up-timeline eras which keep it very competitive. The Gotterdammerung is a an in-universe example of Pentagon design bloat affecting the vehicle's actual performance, as opposed to the stats which wow the procurement brass and congresscritters.
A lot of the issues stem from the Torso-Mounted Cockpit system, which makes balancing more difficult and emergency ejection impossible. This applies across the board for all Torso-Mounted Cockpits, and the Gotterdammerung's added difficulty in dismounting doesn't really change much as pilots in a torso cockpit don't get the luxury of leaving if their mech goes down. It's a different beast from the modern TBolt, taking the Trooper element and being tougher and more survivable compared to the more recent Lyran Thunderbolt designs, which tend to mount either TSM or Jump Jets to let them keep up with the Medium/Maneuvre elements. Due to the way it is designed it doesn't really need CASE, as the only ammo is in the head, making it not only very hard to hit, but which also blows off safely without transferring damage to the rest of the Mech. On top of that, all 12 of its double heat sinks are in the Engine, letting it keep its maximum cooling capacity even with side torso destruction.
I've used it in a campaign and found that it keeps the pilot alive better than most, assuming the mech doesn't get completely destroyed. The biggest weakness is its habit of falling down and being unable to stand up in a reasonable amount of time, though the careful stand rules/options help it get back to its feet without causing the comical spiral of tumbling over you might get. Outside of pilot survivability, the Thunderbolt 17S is just flat out better though.
Its also one of the best songs from mercs 2
Since this video's release a few new variants have been released. The GTD-30S is even more battlemastery, and pretty cheap for what it does. And the GTD-20C is a horror show. Ferrolam and upgrades all its weapons to clanspec. And on top of that it's actually not that expensive for a mech that hits as hard and is as tough as it is.
the design looks right but as seen on the sheet by the rules it exists to show people what not to do with the build rules
I find it funny that my custom Guillotine variant without any clan tech can maul this thing to death while being heat neutral till I don't want it to be and nearly has the same armor
Are there any mechs larger then 100 tons?
Yes, they're called Super Heavies. I'm not big on them.
Superheavy mechs. Bad name, so so idea.
I came into the video thinking "It can't be all that bad". Frick, was I mistaken. LRM 15 with one ton and no case? Yeah,no. 12 dhs for an esentially energy boat? OOF. Ejection that would make me prefer getting cooked by the engine?
CASE isn't needed, it's head mounted so an ammo explosion blasts the head clear without damaging the rest of the mech.
Does wreck the Mech's sensors though, which messes it's ability to land hits. Helps to downgrade the LRM to a 10 in a Campaign to stick in a ton of alternate ammo, and use the last ton to armour that cockpit.
Hmmmm a Hauptmann video next time?
These were voted for, for the DA videos. After this we're heading back to the end of the Success Wars, before 3050.
@@BigRed40TECH thanks.
I am new here, it's good to know.
Great channel, mate.
How the mighty have fallen :(
Can you do one about the annihilator?
Later the year the Annihilator is scheduled.
@@BigRed40TECH ok. Thanks!
I feel like this mech could be redeemable if the MWO community got our grubby mitts on it, we could probably make it way better in the mechlab
The problem with it stems from its cockpit, to be fair. Even if the rest of the machine improved, that cockpit would always be a burden. in MWO, that just doesn't apply.
The GTD-20S is definitely an example of a desk jockey trying to design a weapon system and churns out a widow maker and thinks it's a good design.
More than anything else, it reminds me of one thing about its name, and that's that Richard Wagner wanted to stage the opera of that name in a purpose built opera house, that would be set on fire as part of the finale. Understandably, no city in what would become Germany would agree to such a stupid idea.
Like Wagner's idea, its a gigantic flaming, overly complex monument to excess, that has no regard for human life.
the ejection system should just blast the cockpit out of the mech
At 75 tons, it takes a lot for me to not take a Marauder or Warhammer
A Black Knight would be superb in comparsion to this one too, I think.
Lovely design, but Jesus crist they might install a gun in the cockpit to shoot the poilet if the poilet tries to eject. Because it seems they want the poilet dead
Good.
Very Good.
Remove all weapons. Cram as many MG as you can, with tons of ammo. Remove all heatsinks save 1, max armor and paint shark teeth on the sides . Color the mech bright red to give it an extra boost of speed. Remove the ejection system and give this mech to a penal legion or something. Survive 1 campaign on the frontline and you're free to go.
Found the Ork player.
The thing that truly bugs me about it is that it's also a 32nd century design that STILL makes the mistake of New Toy Syndrome. Those 12 DHS? They'd be at least somewhat adequate if you just mounted ye olde bog-standard medium laser for the close-in battery instead of going with ERs. And it'd be a neat 200k C-Bills cheaper, too!
But it do look cool.
It does!
Definitely Lyran, however it’s not an assault mech so for the social Generals it’s a bad mech.
Why do the worst mechs have the best names?
All as it should be!
Those are standard medium lasers
3 heat points each, 15 heat points total,so it can do zombie mech
It's got ER Medium lasers. 5 heat each.
Going into the way-back machine - but why does a mech have to be able to shoot most of its weapons to be considered effective? If they were smart and went with standard medium lasers, you drop the LRM for 3-5 ML's when within the minimum range depending on your heat profile and you're fine. I love a good bracket fire mech like the Warhammer or Battlemaster where you drop a PPC for a bunch of short range weapons if someone is inside the minimum range.
I always felt that that compact engine/gyro were WAY too expensive from a tonnage perspective for the relatively limited benefit.
Hi a questions, no one has done a review on the heavy rifle, dont laugh, it is close to a cause rifle, it has more amo, and on craby the hero king crab can carry 4, with 4 tons of amo each, I have head shot Atlases and others, so why is it so disliked ?
Thanks leona, PS I am just starting with mech warrior 5, I have managed to track down 2 3 4 ans some of the updates, 2 only runs on my AMD sx 40, running Dos 6.22 and Win 3.11 for work groups.
I mostly cover the tabletop game to be fair.
Thank you, I am just starting out, never played the table top version, but thanks for your time, my very best to you and yours. leona
This thing would be well served by using less sophisticated weapons, like standard MLs and a SNPPC, or an AC5. That heat burden and lack of case (which ought be case2) is its greatest flaw I think. Give it a good couple tours, get the design refined, could be the next banshee. But, like the early Banshee, all it can do right now is kill its pilots.
It doesn't actually need CASE, as the one ton of LRM ammo is stored in the head and doesn't transfer to any other part of the mech and blows out safely, along with the LRM launcher.
It also takes out some of the sensors reducing the Mechs accuracy with its other weapons, but it was going to lose that anyway if the head exploded.
a shame, the mech looks soooo cool!
Can someone please tell me who made this monstrosity? I'm telling you right now this thing must have been made by somebody who wanted people to commit suicide on the board game. I'll take a thunderbolt any day of the week thank you very much especially the ones I build.
That would be me.
And I stand by my all in.
You could say they "got 'er damned wrong"?
I have question for anyone who sees this comment i drew a rifleman for my art class but I don't know what to draw next any suggestions?
Another member of the almost good hall of shame.
Save the metal, kill the meat. Pretty much BT in the dark age.
After all, there's always a few more Academy graduates hanging around waiting for their chance, like the practice squad in NFL teams.
Just give me a modern thunderbolt. Most of the dark age Steiner mechs just aren't good. This being a huge example.
To be fair, if you look at the Lyran Commonwealth in the 32nd Century... it makes sense XD
We spent all our C-Bills on the Omni-fighter Trio, Eisensturms and Morgensterns don't come cheap.
I am the very model of a modern Lyran BattleMech,
I use the very latest and the most expensive of the tech,
I'm designed by a committee of the military ignorant,
And tend to get my pilots killed in ways that are most flagarant!
(And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!)
(And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!)
(And tends to get its pilots killed ways that are most flagarant!)
shame it has so many flaws, the general look and design is imo great.
Ah yes, the Goddamntheygotitwrong