Creating this series of videos, I am well aware that there would be instances of discrepancies, errors in facts, errors in general opinion, distortions and misleading information. Despite all that, I endeavor to bring you the history based on what I have researched, according to the information I have at hand, and also based on my understand and interpretation of what I have. I do apologize for any error that appears. I will add these to the description text when these are pointed out to be and can be substantiated. Consider each video as work in progress as we continue to expand on our knowledge. What is important is that these videos help us ignite conversations of our past, which others may not have stated. If you discover an error, please inform me in the common in the most courteous way. Any discourteous comment will be removed. It is not in my habit of responding to rude comments, my usual action is to scrub the comment section of any discourtesy, so that others enjoy a pleasant reading of one another's comments. Anyone who is rude may also be muted, so think twice before penning something offensive. It may result in your not being able to comment in the future. As a general rule, I address all as sir, unless I know you as a woman, then I will address you as madam. I will not be calling you brother, bro, sis, sister, miss, ms or mister. By this, you will have a good idea of the general tone of this platform.
Very useful video in clarifying the confusion....Well done Tks-- I am first generation Singaporean born Hokkien, and my parents came from Nan-an County of -Quanzhou Prefecture of Fujian Minnan..--famous for Nanyin Music..!!
Intriguing history! On a related but different issue I wonder how the laokhek & sinkhek related to the khek people (the hakka) & their involvement of the tin mining & other industries? Prob another piece (or multiple pieces) of the fascinating mosaic and might not be related at all although I suspect there might be intriguing interactions among them! Thanks for your videos. As always, very enlightening! It's very interesting to dig, compare & learn.
No sir, no relationship sir, except that Lau33khaek3, Sin3khaek3 and Khaek1 Lang2 (Hakka) are all words in Hokkien. Since the Hokkiens form the majority of the Chinese in the Straits Settlement, their term of reference would be the one you are most likely to hear. Hakka is a Han Chinese subgroup whereas Lau33khaek3 and Sin3khaek3 are migration periods or waves of the Chinese. Within each wave are not only the Hokkiens, but also the Cantonese, Teochew, etc.
@learnpenanghokkien Thank you. Incidentally, I've seen the word "khek" used in one of my or my sibling's birth certificates describing our father's ancestry! Must have been an admin staff at the registry office who was influenced by some Hokkien lang!
@@overseaschinese2445In Hokkien, khek means guest. The terms laukhek and sinkhek use this word as a noun, meaning old guests and new guests respectively. For the Hakka people (known as Kheklang in Hokkien) Hak or Khek forms part of their ethnic name.
The more you explain about the Peranakan,Baba Nyonya and Straits born Chinese the more confuse it becomes for viewers.Why are Penang Hokkiens reluctant to identify their spoken Hokkien as different from Hokkien spoken in Johor and even Zhangzhou Hokkien ? Not all Straits born Chinese are Babas or Peranakans. They were Chinese born and living in Settlements under British Straits Govt rule so Chinese in Malay States cant be called Straits born Chinese.
Yes sir, you are indeed confused. "Straits Chinese" are the Chinese who were living in the Straits Settlement. "Straits-born Chinese", on the other hand, were the Chinese born in the Straits Settlements. Unfortunately, every term has its specific meaning. Perhaps if I could sit down with you, I could help you understand better.
Straits Chinese is the ethnological and political designate (used by local groups and the colonial administrators) for the Peranakan Chinese and Orang Baba communities in the Straits Settlements. The term Straits-born is an interchangeable operator (Vaughan 1897; Png 1969; Ruldoph 1997; Frost 2003). Yes, by legal definition, anyone born within Singapore, Malacca, Penang could be called Straits Chinese, but we know that even from 1891 census, the colonial administrators were already cognisant of these socio-cultural differences, and accommodations were made to include them as a separate ethnic group within the racial classification. I'd like to quote what I think is a great excerpt by Png (1969, p. 99) in length: 'Thus all Babas would be Straits Chinese, but not all Straits Chinese were Babas. Similarly all Straits Chinese would be Straits-born, but not all Straits-born qualified as Straits Chinese. Hence the term Straits-born Chinese embraces all Chinese born in the Straits Settlements irrespective of their cultural and social background, whereas the term Straits Chinese should be limited by cultural and social considerations. In the words of Dr. Lim Boon Keng they were peranakans who "have developed such distinct social qualities and have shown so many characteristic ethnic and anthropological aspects that they constitute a class by themselves."' I appreciate what you're trying to do in this series of videos, but one of my concerns it that you're very interested in definitively creating discrete categorisations, which often go against the grain of some already well-established anthropological research. Perhaps you could also include some of your references as evidence to support your claims. That would be really helpful. Cheers!
The colonial administrators have contributed to confusing us by equating Straits or Straits-born with Peranakan and Baba Nyonya. I don't know whether they do it intentionally, or out of sloppiness or unwillingness to do a deeper dive into Chinese history, but the result is, today we need to disentangle the confusion that was created back then. Based on my present research, I no longer accept that all Baba Nyonyas are Straits Chinese (in the past, I did), as now I determine the distribution of Baba Nyonyas is across the Malay peninsula, not confined to the Straits Settlements. They pre-date the existence of the Straits Settlements. In future videos, I will do a book by book overview so that people will know the source of my research, and what they can get out of each book.
@@learnpenanghokkien That would be most appreciated. Thank you for your openness and I look forward to engaging with more of your discussions and debates. All the best!
"Why are Penang Hokkiens reluctant to identify their spoken Hokkien as different from Hokkien spoken in Johor and even Zhangzhou Hokkien ?" I’m not sure where that idea came from, as the video doesn’t suggest that at all. As a Penang Hokkien speaker, I can say that we fully recognise how our Hokkien differs from the versions spoken in the southern peninsula and China. There’s absolutely no issue with this. in fact, we’re proud of the unique character of Penang Hokkien
Understanding the chinese straits settlements that came about,that would get the baba n nyonya association n chinese chamber of commerce back to it lifelivehood n it rich history,they were even earlier then british occupation,control by chinese kapitan on it clan leaders n associates ,but in between portugese/dutch occupation,early chinese migrant were already here during admiral cheng ho experdition n the marriage of princess Hang li poh to the malacca sultan that started it chinese tradition mixed, local spice ,wanyang kulit,dondang sayang,hang tuah,hang jebat they too were chinese ,even where she is buried in bukit cina in malacca n it is still there even the drinking wells ,that more the 600/700 years old, not forgetting the northern part chinese/thai/burmese that more to thai way of live,kelantan kedah,trengganu that was thai control then ,(hear of the bunga emas paying tribute to the thai king)but still speaking the hokkien language n mixed native language,singapore,penang,malacca traded with each others building prewar shop houses n town(note built by the merchant themselves )n how k.l came about it was a slump back then taken cared of by chinese kapitan(yap ah loy also came fr penang) who were also miner n merchant themselves n have to contribute back to it chinese society in road, shop houses,sewage system,trade even electriciity during the straits economy boom, even intermarriage( orang kaya caste)even for every trade economy,it was open to all by the british occupier for it resources tin,rubber,spice trade fr borneo n follow by the other chinese migrant (1901) settling in retails shop in all the main town that was sprouting out where the tin mining industry is,follow by land clearing for the rubber cultivation,it went well for k.l n perak then the riches tin mine valley is own by the british using chinese towkay n worker, all in all during 1st/2nd WW for the british colonial empire it head quater in singapore sprunce up the wealth of the chinese straits settlement even richer then the local sultan with penang port also prospering this two state was thriving n early part ,malacca started it all but ?agricultrue of tobbaco,spices n agri produce was done earlier but not so lucrative,portugese settlement is still there but it trade in 1511 was how it spice trade came about with it supply even fr borneo.(brunei,sabab n sarawak)for the european/middle east market,where islam fate was introduced, the west(u.s) wasnt there yet.Hope my history doesnt bore you ah ba,being a half past two baba ,i still tracing about it history also,THANK YOU PLS KEEP IT UP EVEN I, 5th Generation dont have record of our clan history (only by word of mouth by by chor,chor n granny of my penang/k.l heritage.)
I hope that through my videos, you will have a better understanding of our local history. And bear in mind, there are things which you thought you know, but through my videos, your understand will improve. And at times, you will also understand some of the things you thought you knew turns out to be incorrect.
Creating this series of videos, I am well aware that there would be instances of discrepancies, errors in facts, errors in general opinion, distortions and misleading information. Despite all that, I endeavor to bring you the history based on what I have researched, according to the information I have at hand, and also based on my understand and interpretation of what I have.
I do apologize for any error that appears. I will add these to the description text when these are pointed out to be and can be substantiated. Consider each video as work in progress as we continue to expand on our knowledge. What is important is that these videos help us ignite conversations of our past, which others may not have stated.
If you discover an error, please inform me in the common in the most courteous way. Any discourteous comment will be removed. It is not in my habit of responding to rude comments, my usual action is to scrub the comment section of any discourtesy, so that others enjoy a pleasant reading of one another's comments. Anyone who is rude may also be muted, so think twice before penning something offensive. It may result in your not being able to comment in the future.
As a general rule, I address all as sir, unless I know you as a woman, then I will address you as madam. I will not be calling you brother, bro, sis, sister, miss, ms or mister. By this, you will have a good idea of the general tone of this platform.
Great.love it. I am Hong konger and now live in Houston.
So cool!
Very useful video in clarifying the confusion....Well done Tks--
I am first generation Singaporean born Hokkien, and my parents came from Nan-an County of -Quanzhou Prefecture of Fujian Minnan..--famous for Nanyin Music..!!
Thank you for watching. Glad it was helpful!
Decide to keep Cantonese culture alive
Great Work, You should also include the research on East Malaysia, Sarawak and Sabah.
Next time!
Intriguing history! On a related but different issue I wonder how the laokhek & sinkhek related to the khek people (the hakka) & their involvement of the tin mining & other industries? Prob another piece (or multiple pieces) of the fascinating mosaic and might not be related at all although I suspect there might be intriguing interactions among them! Thanks for your videos. As always, very enlightening! It's very interesting to dig, compare & learn.
No sir, no relationship sir, except that Lau33khaek3, Sin3khaek3 and Khaek1 Lang2 (Hakka) are all words in Hokkien. Since the Hokkiens form the majority of the Chinese in the Straits Settlement, their term of reference would be the one you are most likely to hear. Hakka is a Han Chinese subgroup whereas Lau33khaek3 and Sin3khaek3 are migration periods or waves of the Chinese. Within each wave are not only the Hokkiens, but also the Cantonese, Teochew, etc.
@learnpenanghokkien Thank you. Incidentally, I've seen the word "khek" used in one of my or my sibling's birth certificates describing our father's ancestry! Must have been an admin staff at the registry office who was influenced by some Hokkien lang!
@@overseaschinese2445In Hokkien, khek means guest. The terms laukhek and sinkhek use this word as a noun, meaning old guests and new guests respectively. For the Hakka people (known as Kheklang in Hokkien) Hak or Khek forms part of their ethnic name.
@@miinfl7143 thanks, I gathered as much. The history of our peoples is really fascinating!
The more you explain about the Peranakan,Baba Nyonya and Straits born Chinese the more confuse it becomes for viewers.Why are Penang Hokkiens reluctant to identify their spoken Hokkien as different from Hokkien spoken in Johor and even Zhangzhou Hokkien ? Not all Straits born Chinese are Babas or Peranakans. They were Chinese born and living in Settlements under British Straits Govt rule so Chinese in Malay States cant be called Straits born Chinese.
Yes sir, you are indeed confused. "Straits Chinese" are the Chinese who were living in the Straits Settlement. "Straits-born Chinese", on the other hand, were the Chinese born in the Straits Settlements. Unfortunately, every term has its specific meaning. Perhaps if I could sit down with you, I could help you understand better.
Straits Chinese is the ethnological and political designate (used by local groups and the colonial administrators) for the Peranakan Chinese and Orang Baba communities in the Straits Settlements. The term Straits-born is an interchangeable operator (Vaughan 1897; Png 1969; Ruldoph 1997; Frost 2003). Yes, by legal definition, anyone born within Singapore, Malacca, Penang could be called Straits Chinese, but we know that even from 1891 census, the colonial administrators were already cognisant of these socio-cultural differences, and accommodations were made to include them as a separate ethnic group within the racial classification. I'd like to quote what I think is a great excerpt by Png (1969, p. 99) in length:
'Thus all Babas would be Straits Chinese, but not all Straits Chinese were Babas. Similarly all Straits Chinese would be Straits-born, but not all Straits-born qualified as Straits Chinese. Hence the term Straits-born Chinese embraces all Chinese born in the Straits Settlements irrespective of their cultural and social background, whereas the term Straits Chinese should be limited by cultural and social considerations. In the words of Dr. Lim Boon Keng they were peranakans who "have developed such distinct social qualities and have shown so many characteristic ethnic and anthropological aspects that they constitute a class by themselves."'
I appreciate what you're trying to do in this series of videos, but one of my concerns it that you're very interested in definitively creating discrete categorisations, which often go against the grain of some already well-established anthropological research. Perhaps you could also include some of your references as evidence to support your claims. That would be really helpful.
Cheers!
The colonial administrators have contributed to confusing us by equating Straits or Straits-born with Peranakan and Baba Nyonya. I don't know whether they do it intentionally, or out of sloppiness or unwillingness to do a deeper dive into Chinese history, but the result is, today we need to disentangle the confusion that was created back then.
Based on my present research, I no longer accept that all Baba Nyonyas are Straits Chinese (in the past, I did), as now I determine the distribution of Baba Nyonyas is across the Malay peninsula, not confined to the Straits Settlements. They pre-date the existence of the Straits Settlements.
In future videos, I will do a book by book overview so that people will know the source of my research, and what they can get out of each book.
@@learnpenanghokkien That would be most appreciated. Thank you for your openness and I look forward to engaging with more of your discussions and debates. All the best!
"Why are Penang Hokkiens reluctant to identify their spoken Hokkien as different from Hokkien spoken in Johor and even Zhangzhou Hokkien ?"
I’m not sure where that idea came from, as the video doesn’t suggest that at all. As a Penang Hokkien speaker, I can say that we fully recognise how our Hokkien differs from the versions spoken in the southern peninsula and China. There’s absolutely no issue with this. in fact, we’re proud of the unique character of Penang Hokkien
Hokkien is dialect not language.
You are also right. Watch the video explaining whether language or dialect.
Understanding the chinese straits settlements that came about,that would get the baba n nyonya association n chinese chamber of commerce back to it lifelivehood n it rich history,they were even earlier then british occupation,control by chinese kapitan on it clan leaders n associates ,but in between portugese/dutch occupation,early chinese migrant were already here during admiral cheng ho experdition n the marriage of princess Hang li poh to the malacca sultan that started it chinese tradition mixed, local spice ,wanyang kulit,dondang sayang,hang tuah,hang jebat they too were chinese ,even where she is buried in bukit cina in malacca n it is still there even the drinking wells ,that more the 600/700 years old, not forgetting the northern part chinese/thai/burmese that more to thai way of live,kelantan kedah,trengganu that was thai control then ,(hear of the bunga emas paying tribute to the thai king)but still speaking the hokkien language n mixed native language,singapore,penang,malacca traded with each others building prewar shop houses n town(note built by the merchant themselves )n how k.l came about it was a slump back then taken cared of by chinese kapitan(yap ah loy also came fr penang) who were also miner n merchant themselves n have to contribute back to it chinese society in road, shop houses,sewage system,trade even electriciity during the straits economy boom, even intermarriage( orang kaya caste)even for every trade economy,it was open to all by the british occupier for it resources tin,rubber,spice trade fr borneo n follow by the other chinese migrant (1901) settling in retails shop in all the main town that was sprouting out where the tin mining industry is,follow by land clearing for the rubber cultivation,it went well for k.l n perak then the riches tin mine valley is own by the british using chinese towkay n worker, all in all during 1st/2nd WW for the british colonial empire it head quater in singapore sprunce up the wealth of the chinese straits settlement even richer then the local sultan with penang port also prospering this two state was thriving n early part ,malacca started it all but ?agricultrue of tobbaco,spices n agri produce was done earlier but not so lucrative,portugese settlement is still there but it trade in 1511 was how it spice trade came about with it supply even fr borneo.(brunei,sabab n sarawak)for the european/middle east market,where islam fate was introduced, the west(u.s) wasnt there yet.Hope my history doesnt bore you ah ba,being a half past two baba ,i still tracing about it history also,THANK YOU PLS KEEP IT UP EVEN I, 5th Generation dont have record of our clan history (only by word of mouth by by chor,chor n granny of my penang/k.l heritage.)
I hope that through my videos, you will have a better understanding of our local history. And bear in mind, there are things which you thought you know, but through my videos, your understand will improve. And at times, you will also understand some of the things you thought you knew turns out to be incorrect.