Mass Effect 3 - The Indoctrination Theory Extended Cut CleverNoob Documentary Reupload
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2015
- I remember watching this a while back and I was sad to find out that it has been deleted from youtube after the deletion of Clevernoob's channel, and since I can't find it anywhere else on the internet, I figured I'd upload a copy of it, since I do think this is a very well made video that should be put up for fans of the Mass Effect series to view and discuss with other fans. Enjoy CleverNoob's analysis of the Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut.
I claim no ownership of anything related to this video. I did not make it, I take no credit with anything related to the creation of this video, this is purely a reupload. - Ігри
i personally think bioware is pissed that the fans came up with a better ending than the crap they made
Garrus is returning in ME Andromeda and Shepard is speaking in a trailer for MEA so I'm guessing Shepard and the gang won.
+Mikael Ortmayer There is no Shepherd in Andromeda or even a Shep 2. Bioware have said new antagonist in fact there an alliance name tag with Ryder pictured on in N7 day rumoured to be new name. however there was a pictured character of a Turian like team member.
Stuart Pawley Yh... that was just a promotional trailer featuring Fem Shep. The main PC is sent by a company "the Shepard" founded to explore and colonise new world's in the Andromeda galaxy... Shepard is the catalyst for events... kind of like the Illusive Man but not seen.
+Mikael Ortmayer Well Shepherd came from Alan Shepherd the first man in space from USA. And Bioware are known to be traditionalist and Sally Ride we as the first woman in space from U S a!
Stuart Pawley Yh I know it's a great reference... and Brandon Keener, the Garrus actor said that ME3 wasn't the final goodbye for Shep and Vakarian, so they *might* make a cameo as the new PC works for Shep's organisation. But as MEA wants to distance itself from ME3 it might just be referenced to them or something
Finished legendary edition, came back to rewatch this video. It aged like fine wine.
Even though I’m a fan of the theory, you have to admit it’s essentially been damaged by subsequent findings to the point that it’s almost impossible to support at this point
@@Junebug_online Like what precisely? Im curious, nothing has been added to ME LE and there has been no actual findings about the trilogy that would in any way disprove the theory as it is presented here, other than it simply not being true of couse, sadly.
Even the devs admitted that its a great way to see the game and that they simply werent that smart to think of it (tho its insane there is so many hints if its unintended).
Obviously we know the theory is untrue at this point but I have never heard of any newly uncovered information that retroactively damage it.
Do you mean something that came in Leviathan or such? Let me know if you remember.
actually, I don't think we need any "DLC indocrination theory" to create another ending. To me, its quite simple:
in the end, somehow, you really had the coice: Destroy the Reapers or fell into indocrination (Doing the same mistake as Tim or giving his corpse to the reapers)
If you choose Synthesis or Control, you've been indocrinated. Thats it
If you destroy them, you're not
As much as I fully believe the indoctrination theory, and that it was intended by BioWare at the very least as an interpretation, it still doesn't give you an actual ending. In fact, if you believe the IT we have no ending for ME3. Once you choose 'destroy' and Shepard wakes up in the rubble in London, the fight is still going on. Everything we saw in the ending never actually happened. So do we ever defeat the reapers, does the next cycle defeat the reapers, does the crucible ever get used, does it even work? Those questions never get answered, because the game essentially ends the moment Shepard gets hit by the beam from the Harbinger, which in the best case scenario Shepard wakes up from.
RiksK15 yeah this, even with this theory we STILL don’t know what happens
@@yeahthatsright33 Actually we sorta do, the extended cut added a bunch of dialogue to the starchild and other characters among other things. One of these things is that on the radio Hackett says ANDERSON made it to the beam while still not acknowledging Shepherd. In the Collectors edition guide it states that the final 5000 asset destroy ending cutscene is in fact Shepherd surviving. Shepherd will obviously not live if the reapers win anyways or nobody uses the crucible.
Thus the interpretation is that Anderson in reality was the one to make it to the beam and sacrifice his life to activate the crucible. This fully reconciles Shepherd being in a dream/Anderson being the final and greatest personal sacrifice/and Anderson being dead and having his name on the wall in the final scene remembering the dead(if you take the new final cut scenes as cannon and not dream).
IMO this honestly makes the indoctrination theory even better and Anderson's character and sacrifice more poetic.
@@mw5769 hmm interesting, and here I just got around to watching the leviathan content and accepting the synthesis ending as canon. So with what you said, do we still assume that the destroy ending dlc cutscenes are accurate and canon? Was EDI shown in those endings? If not are we assuming that the crucible DID actually wipe out all synthetics including the geth?
@@yeahthatsright33 If you take the final destroy ending cut scenes as cannon then EDI and the Geth are dead. However I still don't take the ending cut scenes as cannon as the starchild is proven to be lying to you. He says since Shepherd is part synthetic after the Lazarus Project Shepherd will die if he picks destroy. This is proven to be completely false as destroy is still the only ending in which Shepherd lives waking up in the rubble in London. Thus in the IT destroy ending EDI and the Geth are not destroyed as the starchild is a complete liar. The ONLY reason destroy ending is even hesitated at being picked is because starchild says it will also kill the Geth and EDI, yet he is a complete liar and bias source as a reaper. Everything is further yet reconciled with the IT as all of his manipulation and lying to you about the destroy ending killing you, the Geth, and EDI is simply the starchild trying to get you to not pick destroy and break free of the indoctrination attempt.
Why would the catalyst, a weapon built to destroy the reapers specifically suddenly and without your scientists knowledge, (remember all races including the geth helped you build it) just wantonly target ALL synthetic life. Or does it make far more sense for it to target reaper technology and the starchild is blowing smoke out his ass to try to sway you. (Geth were built by Qurians and EDI is originally an alliance VI from Mass Effect 1 that went rogue) so at their core they are technically not reaper technology.)
It's just too bad that the answer to 99% of question is lazy writing or lazy game design. I wish the theory was true.
or perhaps it is true.
there is a reason why Bioware have neither approved and debunked the theory.
why would they be silent? why would they keep the rubble scene intact in the Extended Cut and not change the ending entirely? why would indoctrination and control play such a big part throughout the Trilogy?
i don't think the Indoctrination Theory exists as a form of wanting to make the ending plausible. Maybe perhaps it was Bioware's intention to make a dark, bleak and thought provoking ending. their silence around the ending and keeping the rubble scene intact makes the theory all the more valid imo.
Johnny1248 that doesn’t feel like the case at all. They’re likely being quiet about the theory because they themselves aren’t happy with the ending they gave, but lacked the time to make a better one. As such, it would make sense to allow fans to believe a theory on a more interesting ending than what we got rather than just saying “nope, take the crap we gave you, you’re not allowed to imagine anything else.” I love the theory, but I don’t believe it was their intention, they just wanted something that could partially be left for interpretation rather than pissing people off more.
Cold Fusion I always believed the ending was rushed cause EA pretty much did not give Bioware the time to polish it up.
But hey, at least Bioware fixed most of the flaws with the ending by providing closure with the Extended Cut and providing backstory for the Catalyst with the Leviathan DLC.
If I was a writer I'd embrace indoctrination theory just because all these a-holes calling me lazy!
i think "lazy game design" is a bit of an overstatement considering how much of the rest of the game wasn't lazy. I think rushed is a better descriptor because the bad parts of the game are pretty much identical to the parts they had to rewrite last minute.
At least bioware came clean in 2021
“The Indoctrination Theory is a really interesting theory, but it's entirely created by the fans,” Hepler explains. “While we made some of the ending a little trippy because Shepard is a breath away from dying and it's entirely possible there's some subconscious power to the kid's words, we never had the sort of meetings you'd need to have to properly seed it through the game.
We weren't that smart. By all means, make mods and write fanfic about it, and enjoy whatever floats your boat, because it's a cool way to interpret the game. But it wasn't our intention. We didn't write that.”
When you meet the Starchild in the crucible there's music playing while your meeting takes place.
This perticular track is only heard when you have your conversation.
The name of the song is "Wake up."
Think about that for a second.
The Starchild is a reaper and everything it says is to misdirect and decive.
Shepherd is still on earth. Injured and hallucinating, the reapers makes one final push to take over the commanders mind. From a tactical standpoint it absolutely makes sense since Shepherd is at the center of the resistance against the Reapers.
Completing the game on insane difficulty with a united galaxy and choosing the destroy option (thus staying true to your principles on what was the goal since the first game) you will get a cutscean where you see a person lying in the rubble with charred, blackend N7 armour. The chest rises and a breath is heard. It end there. Who is that if not Shepherd?
Shepherd is not some special snowflake who can negate the reapers indoctrination. No matter how strong the mind the indoctrination will bore into them. By the third game you can clearly see its effects on shepherd. No matter how strong the mind, indoctrination wins at the end. It even stated multiple times in the lore.
He has the weight the galaxy on his shoulders. Wouldn't that be the perfect time to fully exploit the strain that's on him. Think of the doubt, fear and hopelessness that must undoubtedly go through his mind when considering the task in front of him. For an enemy that exelles at instilling these emotions in those they face, it would not be hard for them to exploit that.
However, what shepherd has going for him is his mind. As seen when you choose your origins and in games one and two, he's got an extreme willpower. Pushing on against impossible odds and emerging victorious time and time again. He is able to motivate himself because he doesn't believe that's there's something that cannot be done. Failure just isn't in his vocabulary. But he has doubts as seen in the end cinematic of Citadel DLC. The war is getting to him.
Shepherd is fighting an uphill battle in his mind, and the indoctrination IS slowly winning. But can you delay it?
Yes, yes you can.
There was another spectre who also fought the same battle in his mind.
Saren.
Saren shows that you Can resist it.
Doubt and fear are the reapers most powerful weapons. But shepherd helped Saren push that fear and doubt aside and resist the indoctrination. I belive both knew that the resistance could only be temporary. And so to stop Sovereign, Saren killed himself. So that he would not be it's instrument.
What most deniers to the indoctrination theory seems underestimate is just how powerful the reaper indoctrination really is.
Indoctrination is a red line throughout the series. And it makes everything so much more interesting.
That's my take on it.
It's time to stop.
You know, it's really heart breaking to think that even if Shep destroys the Reapers and escapes Indoctrination for now, that he'll eventually be taken over by it...
There's nothing to deny, because nothing in Indoctrination theory is provable. It's still speculation, and no matter how inevitably the process is if given unlimited time that doesn't mean that it will actually get enough time to work.
@@nathanlevesque7812 That's stupid to say. Since there is much of it that is provable.
@@Freelancer837 Nope.
I love revisiting these.
If IT is Canon(we'll never know) I can only imagine the conversation Harbinger would have with another reaper if they accidentally killed Shepard.
Harbinger: Yes?
Reaper: Shepard's dead.
Harbinger: Good Good... Wait what?!
Reaper: Yeah I killed him, Blasted his ship with my face laser.
Harbinger: You aren't supposed to kill him. He was supposed to be indoctrinated, so that we could convince his army to surrender to our will.
Reaper: Oh... I fucked that up.
Harbinger: Yes. You Did.
A must see for any real mass effect fan. Whether you agree with the theory or not the amount if detail and evidence put into this is incredible.
One reason people discount the theory is that means the game doesn't really have an ending, I would disagree. I believe someone else won the day in the fight against the Reapers (a random soldier like Shepherd used to be) by making it to the beam. In the end it isn't really that important as this is a ME game, inevitably the galaxy will be saved. I think back to the ending of the first Starship Troopers movie. None of the 3 main protagonists of the story end up winning the main final battle. As Carl says "It wasn't the mighty fleet, and it wasn't some fancy new weapon...it was a drill instructor named Zim (a background character in the film), who captured a Brain." The primary protagonist's final battle was more personal, to save his friend Carmen, the wider conflict is just the setting. If you believe the Indoctrination Theory, then the central conflict of ME3 is not the wider conflict with the Reapers, but the personal conflict within Shepherd. It's right there from the beginning, Shepherd first sees the boy playing before the attack, and then every time he see's him after that (including in the vent and Shepherd's dreams) is the Reapers trying to worm their way into his mind. Shepherd primary conflict in ME3 was resolved, he either broke free of indoctrination or succumbed to it, let someone else have the glory of capturing the Brain Bug.
If only we could get that confirmed.
Would love to know what's real and what's not.
Downvoted for calling Clancy Brown a background character
I love this moment in gaming history. When diehard fans of a great trilogy came together to say that the ending couldn't possibly just suck. It had to be deliberate subversion. Actually, the ending was an Evangelion-level psychological masterpiece.
...and then the company had to honestly say that, nope, the ending just sucked guys. gg
Hey it's cannon if you believe it is. At this point I hope bioware never touches the original trilogy, I still believe the ending is ambiguous. If bioware touches the og trilogy they'll fuck my childhood up, I don't game anymore and still believe this is my ending to the series to this date lmao
One of the 8 credited writers said that "they weren't smart enough," but there were 7 other credited writers and a bunch of production troubles in a short space of time. Helper's testimony is not a perfect counter, and there's just too much to discredit it entirely
I thought we called him the star child star child because he was in space :(
Actually I don't see why the Reaper can't be saying "serve us". Yep, there is no subtitles, but that is kinda the point - it shouldn't be obvious. One should doubt, be in this dreamlike state where everything is doubtful.
Personally I support the IT.
And even if not because of all these points in the video but because Shepard in the right state of mind will NEVER choose blue or green ending.
Blue ending was chosen by the IM - who is considered an enemy and green by Saren - who is also an enemy. And for the hole trilogy it is agreed on the fact that this bullshit about control and synthesis is just enemy sweet talking people in their trap.
All people Shepard values and respects - Anderson, Hackett, squadmates tells that the reapers must be DESTROYED.
Shepard doesn't rewrite rebel geth in ME2 telling that it is cruel and inhumane to brainwash anyone.
And suddenly in the very end the same Shepard chooses to brainwash the entire galaxy? Shepard who saw what happened to Saren and IM chooses to "control"?! This is bullshit.
I think instead of saying "Serve us" Harbinger could be saying "Servus" which is Latin for slave.
or Austrian for hello ^^
eluvian camaris I'm gonna take a guess and say Harbinger isn't just saying "Hello!" 😉😂
Notice me Shepard sempai
Why would Harbinger be speaking Latin?
@@robbielobster3212 because Latin is spooky
The biggest problem I have with the Indoctrination Theory is that is just seems too smart for Bioware. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't make smart games, but I feel like Mass Effect is not this cryptic story where there is some big hidden truth behind the ending. I don't think the story of Mass Effect is one that requires digging and interpretation, but it rather one that is relatively straightforward. If the Indoctrination Theory were the cannon ending, it would have been presented in a way where it was the natural obvious conclusion.
Yeah considering how rushed ME3 was I highly doubt they came up with this, it's some 300 IQ shit
@@funtourhawk can't disagree after seeing MEA
I mean have your ever played KOTOR? One of the greatest if not the greatest video game twist of all time and loads of subtle hints of it thrown at you leading up to it.
John Hommel You have it all completely wrong
Cig Economy You are very correct but ME:A kinda just throws out everything and makes ME 1/2/3 pointless
Thank you for re-uploading this.
The Crucible was a Reaper ultimate weapon made to destroy all of the races in one place. They slowly gave the info to the most superior race over a long period of time and let them build it for them before attaching it to the Citadel where the final fight would always play out. The Reapers just use all this stuff (Crucible, Citadel and Indoctrination) to get everyone in one place for the most efficient and effective extermination. Taking millions of years scouring the galaxy looking for militarized survivors is a horrible way to cleanse it. Getting them all in one place and giving them the means to kill themselves is the most effective way to do it. The story was well written and essentially unfinished. The corporate hacks took it over on a deadline. That's all. Mass Effect is this generation's Blade Runner.
mcordima not quite.
In every other reaper invasion the Reapers invade through the Citadel, it would firmly be under their control so that just wouldn’t be possible.
Also we are told by literally every single prothean THING we speak to that the war lasted thousands of years.
YES! Than you for reuploading these! Got so sad when I saw Julian had taken them down.
I believe that the evidence that is collected via Prettz Zell cannot be valid evidence, because developers are not expecting most players to use 3rd-party programs to look at models outside from the in-game camera. These types of "evidence" can be explained by the fact that many devs, while making cutscenes and arranging characters, would use already created models as stand-ins and to save time/money/dev time. For example, for the scene where Shepard, the squad, and Coats are getting out of the shuttle, instead of using time to create a completely new model for one scene, they decided to use an already-existing model and out of coincidence they just decided to use Coats' model because that same model was being used in the cutscene and it would have been convenient. The same can be said for the scene inside the Citadel where the Keeper is removing the helmet off of the Coats model; they just coincidentally used Coats because his model was the most accessible. The fact that Coats is used like this both times, maybe even more times than we know, tells me that Coats' model was easily accessible and the devs used his model for convenience rather than a whole plot to hint at indoctrination. Making theories based on what players are supposed to see in-game is fine, but going outside of the boundaries to places where devs don't want players to see and using that as "evidence" is going a bit too far IMO.
thanks for reposting and thanks for all the work you put into this Julian hope you post more when 5 makes it out
Yeah the indoctrination theory is a goldmine. I just finished the legendary edition, finishing these games for the first time in like 7 years. I dont game much anymore but at this point in my life I will always consider the theory cannon. I dont care what this franchise does moving forward, the original trilogy was a big part of my childhood. Seeing the ending in real time for the first time in years, I still believe that after the harbinger beam, the rest is a dream/battle within Shepards mind/ attempts to finalize indoctrination.
Dark ending ...
I 100% agree with you, but how does Shepard deliver the final blow to the Reapers? If you go with the fan theory and perfect playthrough, he seems to wake up from unconciousness after getting hit by Sovereign's beam, at the very end of the final endgame cutscenes, well before anyhow interacting with the Crucible.
@@ManOfScienceManOfFaith if youre talking about the max war asset destroy ending, that means Shepard won the battle in his mind. It's all interpretation, that's what arts all about. What I think and what you think. I am not a huge fan of the last breath scene. In reality the ending was rushed and all scrambled together.
Thanks man for uploading Julian's Indoctrination Theory vids
Hey Tyler, thanks for reuploading this. I couldn't find this video for months because his channel was gone for a while.
After so many years later, I'm still watching this masterpiece AND the one by ACAVYOS. And for everyone dismissing IT without even trying to rebuke the fact that so many pieces of the theory falls into the entire lore so perfectly, it just goes to show that Bioware is a fucking genius. Eventhough they were forced to release the game sooner than they would've liked, they designed the ending so subtly whilst keeping up with EA stupid deadline that only perceptive and sharp players would've noticed that the entire ending was "a little off for some reason".
And the beauty among all of this is that Bioware, in essence, managed to let their writings manifest itself into reality by "indoctrinating" a large portion of players to believe that Control and Synthesis endings were good and Destroy as bad (regardless if these players believed the Indoctrination Theory or not).
Bioware may be many things. But horrible writing is not one of them.
PS: Those of you saying Leviathan DLC and Extended Cut basically "debunk" IT, remember that:
A). Both DLC doesn't actually deny IT (infact, Extended Cut actually reaffirm IT by adding Reaper voice over the starchild when you shoot him
B). The leviathans are extremely unwilling to help Shepard fight the Reapers, if anything the only reason why they actually agreed to help was the threat that the Reapers now know where the Leviathans were hiding after all these millennium.
I've read the books and comics, played all the games with all DLC's several times and after doing so, for me there is no way to think the indoctrination Theory can't be true.
Good for you?
First off let me start by saying I completely agree the Indoctrination theory sounds much better (and more epic) than taking the ending at face value. Also the amount of research, energy, and time you've put into these documentaries are impressive. I enjoy watching them. Thank you very much :)
I need to play devil's advocate tho. There are some of your points that you consider "confirmed" that I would have to strongly disagree and call "plausible" at most. One example would be the "Harbinger doesn't want to harm Shepard". You bring up the laser is directly pointing at and attacking npcs along the final push however the beam starts behind your squadmates so as to not hit Shepard in its proximity. I say this point is plausible because we could easily argue the beam starts behind squadmates for artistic' sake. The final push is a game state where u control the character where as the laser attacking squadmates is a cutscene. As we all know Bioware LOVES to make cutscenes as dramatic as possible. The cutscene is much more dramatic/intense if we see the beam not immediatly killing them, but starting away and heading toward them instead. Thus creating a sense of inevitable doom that is much stronger that instantaneous death. basically makes for a cooler cutscene.
That being said I still love the idea of the Indoctrination theory. It gives me chills up my spine whenever I think about it.
You forget that in ME2 The Collector General a.k.a harbinger wanted Shepherd’s body, before & after he died.
Now Bioware has only two options - 1. Stay with their shitty ending 2. Confirm that their shitty ending is just an evil indoctrination of Reapers trying to control Shepard.
Option 3, ME2 is canon with Shepard dying in the Suicide Mission and there is no ME3
@@neutavalon Option 4, ignore the entire topic for 7 years and run BioWare's reputation to the ground.
Watched all 3 of these videos now, and I'm thoroughly confused about why Julian keeps trying to convince us that the Starchild is a Reaper, when one of the Starchild's dialogues is literally "I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers". I don't think that warrants any further investigation, but hey! Fun to explore nonetheless.
Just finished Mass Effect 3 after getting a great deal on the whole trilogy. $7. But thank you so much for reuploading this. The creator obviously put a shit load of work into these documentaries.
you da real mvp
Most of the ideas weren’t his. They were based on discussions on the old bioware/ME3 forums. A lot of people discussed this at the time, as we were all sad because the game didn’t end how we wanted. We desperately clutched at straws and found something that confirms Indoc Theory in every scene in the game.
Who's here after the Mass Effect teaser trailer?
Me !
I would've liked to know what his opinion on the game now that all the DLC has come out including the leviathan which does explain the ending a little bit better. I didn't mind the extended cut ending when it came out. It made it a little more better.
Same. A ton of his points have been explained away with the DLC and extended cut scenes
1:15:00 - Was Leviathan DLC out by the time this documentary was released? Sorry for not paying closer attention, I had to watch this in pieces. My point is: the "Leviathans" were also being represented in Shepherd's mind as Ann Bryson, Garneau, and whoever the third one was; all past or present acquaintances of Shepherd's. It sort of makes sense that the Reaper A.I. uses the same ability when asserting itself in people's minds in the form of someone those people know.
thx for the reuploads .
You can't really blame Bioware for the picture montage, there ending was terrible. They needed to fix it as fast as possible, we should be thankful for what we got.
Laser Pictures Well, that was the only honorabe thing they could do to try to fix their mess.
What is the name of the Mass Effect Album score playing in the background from the beginning of 41st minute to the 43rd?
Unfortunately Shazam can't identify it.
Thanks so much for preserving these. People NEED to see them. I don't suppose you took down copies of any other CN videos?
The4thSnake Indeed. It would be such a shame if so much valuable work got lost forever.
The4thSnake Sadly these 3 video's were the only CN videos I actually downloaded to my phone when his channel still existed.
Justin Sowers What does that have to do with anything we spoke of here...?
Tyler Hansen thank you so much for the reupload for this Incredible detailed theory all the others are not as detailed and well done as this one by CN.
So thank you you are really awesome !!!
I don't know who CN is what happened to his channel?
If Harbinger doesn't want Shepard dead, then why does he throw hordes of his armies at him/her? Why don't they all stop being aggressive and just let Shepard pass through?
My guess would be that, since they knew Shepard was an unstoppable force, none of the hordes would kill him. If they did, the cycle would continue like any other.
And/or, the point of the hordes of enemies was to break Shepard's spirit - by putting Shepard through hell, his mind would be easier to break down. Hope this makes sense
@@nicolasfonts3194 "And/or, the point of the hordes of enemies was to break Shepard's spirit - by putting Shepard through hell, his mind would be easier to break down. Hope this makes sense"
That's an interesting point. Still, harbinger was taking a huge gamble on Shepard not dying, since the odds were so heavily stacked against him.
Well, on one hand we can't forget that this is still a video game. Running through the story without any (Reaper) enemies shooting at you would've been... weird. Apart from that... We don't know what happens with Shepard when he's taken down by Reaper forces. The game over screen doesn't read "Shepard died", just "Critical Mission Failure". Maybe the Reaper forces are bringing him to Harbinger afterwards...
So sad that the retake mass effect movement failed and people didnt stick to the plan. I just saw all 3 of these for the first time in the past 5 hours and it bums me out I didnt see it sooner so I couldve been a part of retake mass effect. Ive gotten every mass effect, excluding the first one at their midnight release and it's still my favorite trilogy to date. I would love for a proper ending to come but it isnt going to anymore. Watch the youtube video mass effect is dead, it's tragic, Andromeda ruined any chances. As for the story of Shepard, it's unfortunately over for good. But I will never forget the amazing story I got to be a part of, even if the ending was crap. Anyway folks, Keelah se'lai
Shirley Network apparently a new mass effect is in development. And indoctrination theory is canon. Hope that makes you feel better :)
Nick Busker bs, source?
It's not dead. No way Bioware is giving on this IP because of one bad game. People will buy another Mass Effect game, especially if it takes place in the same galaxy either before or after the events of the trilogy.
Mass Effect will come back :) do not lose hope
Mass Effect is dead because a UA-camr's essay said so apparently.
People online are too easily influenced by popular UA-camrs.
THANK YOU
Sepheus 13 It is over, actually. No indoctrination was involved, but if it were, Shepard would be rendered useless to the Catalyst, Shepard's free will is an important asset, I'll explain why if you're curious. Also, Mass Effect Andromeda, the next Mass Effect game moves forward from this with subtle signs that the war against the Reapers is really over. Let's just say that there is a lot of deception going on in their methods to reach their goal, and whether the Reapers win or lose actually depends on what choice you make at the climax of the game, and the right choice to defeat the Reapers is the kind of choice that paragon players would generally feel uncomfortable choosing, killing the enemy at the price of losing a few allies, but wars are like that, there's no way around that ugly truth.
And the Stargazer epilogue scene hints very subtly that Shepard has one more story, meaning he/she survived defeating the Reapers no matter what choice you chose at the end, and the only way that can be possible is if he/she chose to kill the Reapers with the human reaper heart as one of the war assets and the number of war assets needed for the war not to take a bad turn maxed out.
I spent years since 2012 trying to make sense out of ME3's controversial ending, and after playing the Extended Cut and Leviathan DLC, I believe got everything figured out, I know what the Reapers actually want and what they are doing to reach that agenda, and how to beat them in a "Good Guys Win, Bad Guys Fail" style.
It is over.
@@tomfrank728 not over, just saying that something is x doesn't make it x, the truth isn't democratic.
we'll see when ME4 comes out what happens
Leviathan completely takes control of Shepard, which proves he is not immune
Love your Indoc videos! :) I've watched most of all of them, so I hope you haven't already said this and I missed it but....
Regarding the breathing scene - The rebar confirmation is awesome! However, on top of that, the conclusion I draw is that if Shepard, in his mind, while Indoctrinated, chooses "Destroy" then he wakes up horrifically injured...right where he was on Earth the whole time...
Perhaps the Reapers were making a test to see if this pinnacle of humanity could possibly conclude that they should integrate, and when he doesn't, the Indoc ends, he's barely alive on Earth, and........who knows what happens next (and maybe that's part of the plot line for Andromeda.
If he chooses any of the others, the Reapers are okay with that and everything ends fine for everyone.
I bet Andromeda has the Destroy ending....Shepard died....the galaxy is currently being mopped up by the Reapers.....and there you go. :-\
With ME4 having been confirmed now, my hope is that they pick this theory up as Canon.
You've done the community a great service.
+JayPG too bad not many ppl have seen this
zied nefzaoui The original up loader had views in the hundreds of thousands and likes in the thousands before he remove them
@@iTROLLxTHExTROLLZ It reapers! They don't want it to be true!
Yet, he didn’t credit the people he quoted the information from.
I just wonder why no other crew member has become indoctrinated? After all that exposure to the Reapers 🤔
raiahy maybe they were targeting the biggest threat they saw, in Shepard.
Perhaps having someone that close to him become indoctrinated would put Shepard more on guard and harder to sway.
Super late to reply but here goes,
The reapers acknowledge shepherd. In the beginning dialogue in Mass Effect 2 the Illusive man states that Shepherd is the one who is truly responsible for killing sovereign and that commands the reapers fear or at very least respect.
Aside from comics, the only constant figures interacting with all of the in game reaper artifacts and fights is Shepherd, companions are interchangeable and negligible from a game continuity and cannon stand point. Thus Shepherd out of everyone is the only one with by FAR the most contact with these things, and the Reaper Object Rho in the arrival dlc is an entirely Shepherd only mission. (This is the point many like to claim is the true start of Shepherd's indoctrination)
As shown by all the dialogue, attention, and the entire game of Mass Effect 3, the reapers de facto leader's Harbinger and the Starchild (who many claim is likely Harbinger embodying the collective will of all reapers) are all obsessed with Shepherd from both a game and narrative standpoint.
All of this shows why out of all the crew members Shepherd the LEADER is the one they want to subvert and stop, also the rest of crew has no cannon specific specified amount of interactions with reapers and reaper objects, (besides Liara in a comic?) On top of this the most important reaper artifact the Object Rho was a Shepherd only mission.
@Sakkra1993 Now that you mention it, I remember him saying something to that extent. "Do you hear that?" "What's that noise?" Or something like that.
@@allenharper2928 Correct, he does say that. I'm not sure exactly at which point during the story, since I've never encountered it myself. He's clearly being indoctrinated, since strange noises in the mind are a sign of indoctrination, but Shepherd is getting hit by it the hardest, since the Reapers have a special interest in him.
I've heard the quote-unquote "Serve us" sound by the Reaper on Tuchanka twice. Once upon arriving at the Shroud & again after Kalross hits it, albeit slower & deeper.
Honestly I think its just a reaper sound and not them actually saying "Serve us"
when he's talking about how nobody had found the decision chamber yet it made me remember about how the citidel kids would crawl through the air ducts and were called "duct rats", you hear about them during the assassin loyalty mission in mass effect 2.
at 52 minute mark - that issue is spawn limit - and yes - it is something that does happen like that - check out skyrims map and spawn limit when you are roaming around outside - you can see the distance limit - and also this part of several engines are explained in behind the scenes from many developers
+TheCADDGUY the child at the begining can be seen from another building, why is anderson different?Besides even if the limit to active thing is small, he can be backdrop (background) painting and come "alive" when you get near him.
thats because its still a part of the pre rendered cut scene, and if you look back at the child on another building through the window when the player has control - you cant see the child when you should
draw distance
why does anderson look different? why would he look exactly the same? and yeah, they could do the 2D image from a distance and pop into 3D once you enter the DRAW DISTANCE that i mentioned before
ever played silent hill - ever wonder why the fog was put in? DRAW DISTANCE LIMITATIONS - they still exist now - you wouldnt want an entire map and every enemy drawn and alive as soon as the mission starts - thats a lot of processing power to keep track of - so games are programmed to only worry about what is in the players immediate area to keep the game running smoothly - is that a fault - NO
The thing with Anderson is simply pop in. Tons of games have it and have done it for a long long time. They load in characters ot higher quality textures based on how close you are. It reduces RAM requirements, as instead of having to load entire world's even parts characters can't really see, the game only shows what is necessary or closest to the player.
18:56 I thought that the beam was supposed to be the same tech as a mass relay, just slightly altered...
hey, I just watched about 3 and half hours of the indoc theory and i have to say with everything you presented im a believer especially with the new trailer that just came out about 16 hours ago. so I have to ask, would you break down the trailer?
You know this isn't the original right? Tyler Hansen didnt make this video.
11:08 Play the game with spanish subtitles. In Spanish, the word You (which can be both plural or singular in English) is either "Tu" in singular or "Ustedes" in plural. If the reaper says Tu or Ustedes, then we know if the reaper is talking just about him resisting, or all of humanity resisting.
I think the odd noise is really Shepherd's implants doing their job of keeping him/her alive
Man it's sad how Andromeda turned out and even worse that they cancelled all the post launch DLC that might have been able to help it.
My best theory for the indoctrination was that the reapers use a combination of nanotechnology and excessive energy manipulation. The Reaper are “gestalt” beings made from organic material which supports that their make up is a highly advanced nanotechnological structure. Their mastery of their own technology and ability makes seem magical or “godlike,” but it’s not that simple. Reaper tech, like anything, needs to learn and improve. That’s why indoctrination happens over time rather than immediately even when faced with a leviathan class reaper. The nanotechnology gets inside your body and slow starts to alter and manipulate chemical and biological processes in order to get you to change, and the mind stuff? We have Asari that can merge minds, along with other cool species with powers, so that’s just an evolution of the sci-fi setting. To finish up, it could be possible to reverse or “handle” the indoctrination with counter-nanotechnology, but that’s a big IF. We lack the experience to handle it well. Maybe reaper tech can be used to fight reaper tech like how reaper codes were used to hide the Normandy by EDI. Who knows?
Building in his view of the reapers and the crucible, they may have also left it to keep organics occupied while they do what reapers do. Maybe it started out as a way to stop them but they turned it into what they wanted it to be and left it as a decoy.
Its 2017 so what about this Project X? I'm new in this topic. Is it a Citadel DLC?
i was a huge ME nerd i read every codex entry read the books... when shepard was hallucinating at the start i was like "dang his time around reapers is start to get to him" then when james said in the shuttle bay out of no where "anyone else here that buzzing" i was like damn that means its starting to take hold
One word to describe Julians third video: Hubris
There is one more video that is related to this where CleverNoob pretty much annihilates BioWare and EA's argument that the requested DLC for ME3 wasnt an indoctrination themed DLC, and destroys their arguments, I want to see that video.
About the point of how deadly the Reaper's beam are (around 1:25:00), you could bring the point that you can instantly die by reaper beam hits IN-GAME. It can happen at the duel in Rannoch, and when you are defending the missiles just before the final charge.
So what you’re saying is we should forgive BioWare for calling us names for admitting we where confused. If we forgave them and started throwing our money at them again and it turned out this isn’t true and it’s just heartbroken fans trying to make sense of a ending that broke their hearts. What then, back to square one and it all starts all over again, I can’t say I don’t hope this isnt true, after 6 years I’ve finally found it in me to put Mass Effect in console again. I’d love this to be true, I’d love to play the games again like I used to and I’d love a new Mass Effect with Shepard.
I think the dream sequence starts even before shepard is hit with the lazer. Shepard has fought reapers not even that long ago on tuchanka. He knows he cant just bum rush a reaper by running fast enough down a hill. I refuse to believe shepard would be dumb enough to make this incompetant decision when he saw harbinger land next to the beam. Theres just no way. Maybe he nodded off for a second while he was on the shuttle on the way there. He is very tired after all from all the battles. And sleep is when the subconscience is most vulnerable and is the best time for reapers to exploit your mind right? And harbinger is in such close proximity to shepard at this point, im sure if shepard were to nod off on a shuttle harbinger would be all over that like a fat kid on some carvel ice cream cake. Think about it.
The longer you watch this series of videos, the more frustrating it becomes. Very little understanding of any aspect of game development, so many bizarre points that don't prove what they're trying to prove, and refusal to consider other options.
It was fun to take part in Indoctrination Theory a decade ago, but it does not hold up at all lmao.
There is this closeness to sound of Reapers theory, when James's small talk on Shepard's routine checks where he says "Do you hear that hum?", and Tali's drunk explanation of how the sound of the ship has changed from "Shuuuuuum" to "Wuhwuhwuhwuhwuh" at the quiet party option in Citadel DLC.
If you think about it, the hums of the ship could've been changed right after they brought the Reaper IFF into Normandy SR2. And only she is eccentric enough to recognize such a thing because she was always fascinated by Normandy and is always close to the engine.
Normandy SR2 is where? Normandy SR2 is where Shepard sleeps at night, sees those dreams. Since Reapers want her to be indoctrinated, she is feeling the effects the most.
Or maybe the whole team is also slowly getting indoctrinated? I mean you took your team with you to your missions, at least I took Garrus to almost all of my missions and he is one of the oldest members. And he always said he was with me regardless, oh poor soul...
10:00. 42:00. What are the name of the BGMs? Thanks!
Hey here's a new thing I noticed after 7 years of this video being up
Why is it that Shepherd has to shoot the crucible in the destroy ending when destroying the reapers is the entire point of the crucible? Doesn't that go against the crucible's entire purpose?
What is the name of the music at 1:36:00 ?
I didnt watch in full, but still point it - if choose control or synthes - Shepards gets intoctrinated eyes like Illusive Man, plus dies. Whereas only Destruction gets us the breath in concreate scene. That's quite the validation of theory, which is by now, already become an axiom.
@Mordecai Maxwell Thats doesnt saying that Shepard is not intoctrinated he is this video proves its so logical too bad Bioware could make reall normal ending lefting many fans too think they own ending.... end that extended dlc is pointless adding few answers and cutsenes....
@Mordecai Maxwell To be fair, he's PARTLY synthetic. They resuscitated most of his body, like heart, brain, lungs, etc. Don't see why they couldn't have possibly restored his eyes too.
One thing I noticed right away when exiting the beam was the familiarity of the atmosphere. I had a weird sense of deja vu. from the dead bodies, to the walk to the control room. It seemed, to me, that the design of the interior was just fragments of his memories of objects and places he'd been before. look at the "hand rails" leading up to the choice room. they are, or strongly resemble, antanas from ships and other structures. they seem oddly out of place on the Citidel especially with the "1M1" printed on them.
Man you did a great research!)))
2019 ! and still no proper ending from Bioware
Mantas Unreal I’ve just accepted and embraced the indoctrination theory as head canon. If another game comes out, imagine if the first decision made by the player is “was Shepard indoctrinated?”
i accepted as indoctrination too its so logical imagine next game if asks what decision u made and you versus Shepard indoctrinated or continue his story imagine that would be awesome ofc with good story and many dealogues and companions:}
I think that is the point. They wanted it to be open ended. Tho they did attempt to create closure with the extended cut monologues it really wasn't enough in the end.
That neuro shock you mentioned is from a chip implanted in shephards brain. Or just some rubble coming up through the beam. And I understand that Miranda said she wanted to put a chip on your brain to control you and then the illusivr man told her no, you still see the chip getting implanted in Mass effect 2. While the chip may not be able to control you it could be used to regulate you're brain functions and other issues. And you never get hit directly by the laser, However you get thrown back from the force and shockwave of the laser. Also there is no indoctrination beam. I say this because if there was an indoctrination beam then the reapers would be able to just shoot their beam and boom people are indoctrinated and there wouldn't be any destruction
I believe this theory. Shepard is resistant to indoctrination but not impervious to it. The end of the game is a dream like the other dream sequences and the choice at the end is Shepard fight to either remain resistant or become a indoctrinated puppet. There is no catalyst in the sense of it being a item or object that needs to be installed onto the crucible, it's a sense of being. If you destroy the reapers Shepard becomes a catalyst to change, the crucible fires and the reapers are destroyed. It's why the reapers are so interested in him throughout the series and attempt to capture him alive 3 different times. They realize he's basically the chosen one and his will is either the reapers end or a new beginning. The crucible never worked before because this cycle is different because Shepard has a unique ability, his will is something special and unique to him and him alone. He had the ability to unite against and defeat them and they wanted to use him as either a replacement for Harbinger because of this or as a puppet to control and demoralize the united galaxy. He fixed relations between every race, he stopped both Saren and the collectors by creating a united group of unlikely individuals and he was destined to do the same to the reapers. The choice at the end is Shepard will manifested into a single choice that will determine how the crucible works. The reapers knew he would accomplish this and used Sarens decision for synthesis and the illusive man's decision for control as a distraction to avoid their own destruction. Basically the crucible fires no matter what because of his undeniable will and they attempt to sway Shepard into making a choice that benefits them.
Cool story bro the writers said it isn't true though lol
@@ConnollyUK Good for you you believe everything someone tells you. 👍
@@ConnollyUK One Minor writer. Keep coping
Anyone know what song is at 22:28 ? thanks
the picture shown at 1.17.39 had me so confused on my playthrough as the guy rubbing his chin was pretty much my custom Sheppard. I was just.....wait whys he there?
The sound after Anderson says his name and he has the "neural shock" sounds like the shockwave biotic ability. Literally, like the first .5 seconds of the shockwave power sound JUST like that.
What is the song at 33:45?
I like to think that more of a connection between minds comes from when Shepard connected to Legions'/Geth network on Rannoch.
I mean it sure does seem like he got downloaded in there.
Harbinger not wanting to kill shepard, in relation to the squad mates, can pretty much be reasoned away with the developers wanting to increase tension considering that you watch them die if you have low ems. That also makes ems a more important factor. So it's not really confirmed in regards to that either. Plus, harbinger is focusing on killing everyone closest to the beam first. Hence why he doesnt straight up target shepard. And when he leaves, he believes shepard is dead. So no point sticking around. And I'm sure that he believes the rest of the assault force has been wiped out as well. I like the idea and reasoning of I.T., but at least rationalize it with devs wanting to create events in a certain way to increase tension or add value to certain game mechanics
The thing with indoctrination is is its rampant through all 3 games, so for it not to happen to shepherd and have the player experience that and fight against it wouldnt make sense. It's like a chekovs gun, they keep showing it and showing it but supposedly this doesnt happen to us?
It'd either be a massive missed opportunity or they did do it as evidence in these documentaries.
Goat upload
The Geth Quarian peace isn’t a counter point, the Starchild/Reapers believe that the “peace cannot last” between synthetics & organics. Pro Indoctrination Theorist btw
Explain EDI then.
The final battle is wether or not the player destroys the reapers or not. You mentioned it in an earlier documentary. The player (us) is being indoctrinated. The un-indoctrinated ending is destroying the reapers. When the player rises above the lies and tricks of the reapers. It's a mind game lol at least that's what I think
57:04 wasn't the crucible designed and added onto by multiple cycles? Depending on what each cycle thought was the answer could influence what it was supposed to do. I mean hell the synthesis option could of been prothean and that's why it's green, just like their VI's and becones.
If a cycle that had a group like Cerberus was in dominant of the crucible design would definitely have a control option added.
I believe the first cycle wanted to destroy, sometimes in the middle wanted to control, and the prothean wanted synthesis, shepard is just that one in a billion that could make any of them happen.
So since no comments are younger than 1 year ago, has there been an update? The indoctrination theory is 100% better than anything else they could do for the ending. The fact that there's rubble around shep and shepard can breathe in the end is enough proof lol
Your comment is younger than a year
@@doomsday437 bold of you to assume I know if it was confirmed
1:16:45 The laser beam attack isn't how Harbinger got into Shepard's mind. The laser is just a weapon. Physical proximity is sufficient for indoctrination to affect the mind in such a way. Think back to ME2 where the Cerberus team became indoctrinated and had shared memories. The derelict reaper influenced their minds and the contents within without shootings Laz0r beams at them, and that was a long-dead reaper. Harbinger is alive and well, barely hundreds of meters away from Shepard, and he's supposedly the oldest (and most powerful/influential?) reaper.
Not many people would have redirected views back to OP.
I saw a deleted scene where the star child can be heard saying, "They're all going to die."
wow unreal that youtube recommended this to me. This is like some insane ancient youtube memory, long live the indoctrination theory make it cannon moving forward. Still this theory and how far people went to justify this was a crazy shit show
what is the song at 1:32:06
I agree that the Indoctrination Theory is plausible. I also think you're affected by confirmation bias through numerous points during this video, especially around 1:10:20. You're also blatantly condescending toward a portion of your audience, the skeptics, which is not cool.
Here's why I disagree with your points during this portion of the video:
1. If you go through the Leviathan DLC (or just watch the Leviathan confrontation on UA-cam), you find out that the Reapers and Leviathan have observed hundreds of civilizations....hundreds of entire civilizations...rise and fall over the course of untold millennia, and it always ended the same way: organics and synthetics fight because the nature of their mortality caused fundamental differences in the way they exist, ways which, over time, caused conflict that eventually led to war. This has happened HUNDREDS OF TIMES...not in special, individual events, but as the penultimate fate of entire civilizations. All of those civilizations probably had nuances we as humans can't even imagine, since they probably all evolved differently and thus, had different ways of thinking and problem solving (like how the Salarian metabolism is super fast, enabling them to think exceptionally quickly yet expire after roughly four decades, even with future space medicine). Despite these nuances, both the Leviathan AND the Reapers tell Shepard that, no matter what, it always ended the same way. That's what you call statistical significance - when something happens (like synthetics and organics fighting) so frequently given certain conditions (synthetics developing intelligence, in this case), that it can be called a "Causal Relationship". Not "Correlational", "Causal". That means it's so statistically possible, it may as well be considered cause and effect.
It's not that they were trying to prevent synthetics from killing organics - they viewed that as an inevitability. They were trying to preserve the essence of organics - culture, thought, experience. If the geth killed the quarians, there would be no preservation of quarian thought - they'd just be dead. The Reapers must have figured that was better than nothing, at least until a cycle came along where an anomaly (Shepard) would show up, and a new (hopefully better) solution would present itself. Starchild says, "the fact that you are standing here means my solution won't work anymore."
2. Earlier in the video, you mentioned that the "Destroy" option is the only possible thing that each cycle, the ME contemporary one as well as all previous cycles, could have added to the Crucible. In saying that, you're committing a logical fallacy; you're assuming that every cycle that has ever worked on the Crucible (each cycle added to it) thought the way that humans, salarians, asari, turians, and all races of this cycle do. Maybe there was a cycle where the indoctrinated Cerberus-esque organization gained the upper hand, and tried to add the "Control" option to save themselves? Maybe there was a cycle where a more peaceful and diplomatic race (or races) built the Crucible, and they added Synthesis? Let's not assume that, just because the Reapers wanted to harvest past cycles, that those cycles reacted to the reapers in the same way each time. The only constant that we're aware of is the cycle of synthetics and organics fighting, which we know for a fact because both the Leviathan AND Reapers, two races on different sides of the war, said exactly the same thing.
3. For all their magnificence, the reapers are machines exercising a prime directive. They don't "want" to harvest organics any more than a toaster "wants" to make toast. They are intelligent, yes, but they're still guided by a purpose - the solution to a problem that they motherfucking verified empirically (watching the same outcome to hundreds of entire civilizations, despite physiological and psychological nuances between them).
4. As for the geth/quarian peace, the Starchild DOES acknowledge that something about this cycle seems to be different ("my solution won't work anymore"). He says that regardless of whether the peace happens or not, but if it does, the geth/quarian peace exemplifies how different this cycle is. Just because he suggests "Synthesis" or "Control" over "Destroy" doesn't necessarily mean those options exist as destinations to the path of indoctrination. Maybe he just doesn't want to die. I mean, if the Reapers didn't think that everything they were doing was for the sake of some long-term benefit, why would they even give him the "Destroy" option? The most plausible option I can think of is, whether it's a dream or not, the Reapers ultimately want to preserve organic life. They gave Shepard the choice because this was a new, untested, unverified scenario, and Shepard clearly was the anomaly that caused it, so may as well let him/her figure out what to do next. In other words, Shepard reaching the Crucible meant that the Reapers had become obsolete, because he proved they could be beaten. Maybe the Starchild is not to be trusted, but if any organic had reached the Crucible before, the Reapers would be controlled, synthesized, or dead.
5. Saying "it simply doesn't make sense" isn't an argument on its own. When you say that it just makes you sound dismissive and narrow-minded, and when you condescend to skeptics immediately after saying that, it makes you sound like a twat.
ALL THAT SAID: I did actually enjoy this video. Your rhetoric needs work, but everything was really well-researched and (for the most part) well explained. I still think that IT has become a legitimate interpretation of the ending, extended DLC or no. Even Bioware has implied through various press releases that, even if they didn't intend the ending to lend itself to the theory, they're okay with that theory being considered canon. I agree that Shepard was probably indoctrinated, I just think you gave a couple of your points more credibility than they had due. Once again, good job, just don't be a dick to your audience just because they might not agree with you.
+Moses Bushido I know your comment is 2 months old, but you realise that Tyler Hansen didn't actually create the documentary right? The ID Theory Doco was made by Clever Noob. While your points are accurate, you should be directing them at Noob, and not Tyler. He's just the messenger, after all :)
I'm glad comments like this are still showing up. One tragedy of the original video being deleted, is the loss of all the fantastic comments that would have come with it. Regardless of the authors intent, this comment comes off as a response to the video. Not a response to a video that has been re-uploaded by a different channel.
From point number 4: "Maybe the Starchild is not to be trusted, but if any organic had reached the Crucible before, the Reapers would be controlled, synthesized, or dead."
This was addressed in the video in the form of why, from all the thousands of scientists working on the crucible, who clearly understood it enough to be able to complete it, never noticed that there are TWO other options for the crucible apart from just 'destroy'? I would argue because those two other options never existed in the first place, and hence were not foreshadowed in any way (unrelated to indoctrination that is). They only existed in the Shepard's dream/ indoctrination attempt. And obviously the reapers had not been destroyed before because no one had finished the crucible before, and with IT, it is not even entirely clear if the crucible works at all. Once Shepard 'wakes up', we don't know what actually has happened/ will happen with the crucible.
The reapers let shepherd get there. The question is why
1:40:20 "move on to a better gaming company" those were the good days
perhaps it was a cerberus implant was "acting up" when he was jolted when Shepard just got on the citadel.
Finally time for the third part. Still some points from me.
-The "weird" beam: Well, maybe it contradicts CURRENT technology, but the REaper-Tech is advanced by a couple of cycles. What if they kept the most advanced tech to themselves to make sure THEY ahve the trump-cards, they have the best options. After all, such a transporter-beam from surface to orbit would speed up the cleansing process immensely, allowing for bulk-transportation of masses.
-Harbinger not shooting Sheppard: Well, how about psychological warfare? Whether Harbinger wants to indoctrinate Sheppard or merely wants to let the "big hero" survive, but with a broken mind, it's both based on the idea that seeing my team-mates (for what it's worth; your clostest friends) blown apart, instead of simply vanishing in the explosion of a tank, is a more devastating image to use against witnessing and surviving enemies. If he wants to indoctrinate Sheppard, that image further weakens the mental stability; If he wants him to survive merely as the picture of a broken war-hero; it serves as an example for everyone to see what happens if you oppose them.
-Coats dead on the citadel: They didn't use a generic soldier model (like the ones that run down the hill) because they have no face. The only things given to their faces is what the visor shows: The eyes and the upper part of the nose; no mouth, no ear, no hair, no mouth, nothing else. They needed someones full head and probably someone was really too lazy to whip up some head-model and paste some wig on it, so they used a preexisting finished head-model that was not so well known (like Anderson, TIM, Hackett, etc.). And that's also why the body vanishes when we would get too close: They didn't want the player to realise that it's Coats for the very same reason; he may be a lesser known character (well, lesser known than Anderson etc.), but still known enough to be recognised by some if shown too much.
-The 3 options on the Crucible: Well, kep in mind that even the Prothean VI on Thessia confirms that the plans are an amalgamation of various cycles adding and altering the design. The important word here being "altering"! What if some of those indoctrinated groups (pervious' cycles Cerberus equivalents) added these options and later cycles simply thought them to be a part?
On the other hand; I think I remember some line (either from the Child or some other ingame source) stating that the Crucible is of Reaper design, as much as the Citadel: Designed to test the races. Means these three options were in fact considered logical by the Reapers and as such taken into the process simply because they wanted to see if the races truly had learned anything.
Besides; we know from several entries and dialogues, that the Citadel was not fully "open" to everyone; there were still areas, that were inaccessible for the races.
And the size of the Crucible can still be reasoned away by the technology. Keep in mind, we're taling about highly advanced tech being mimicked by comparatively primitive species. It's like comparing modern computers to first-generation computing machines; a palm-top to a flat-sized calculator.
-Starchild and the Geth-Quarian cooperation: No. The Geth and Quarians were at war. Only recently they worked together AGAIN AFTER being told to do so. The Geth rebelled against the Quarians before, and that's what the Child is getting at. No mincing of words.
And also no point in saying it's no longer valid: Geth and Quarians were at war and reunited by chance and the intervention of one very skilled rhethoric (Sheppard). Who says the next organic/synthetic rebellion will go the same path? Who says there will be someone skilled enough to talk them into cooperation? None, and that's why the Child dismisses the Geth-Quarian reunification/repacification as a single instance and not representative.
-Starchild in his Mind: Not a counterargument, merely a critique. If the Starchild is based on the child Sheppard sees on Earth; but the child on Earth is basically a figment of his own imagination (your previous video states that the Child is a visualisation of Sheppards indoctrination; no one else can see him, he also appears in the dreams; no one even bothers about him, etc...)... Then what is he actually based on? Harbinger must've drawn on another image of a child that was familiar to Sheppard. I'd not go as far as saying the child is effective Sheppard AS A child, but maybe that's the hidden meaning?
-Coats in the post-descicion montages: Of course he's there, because (see above): They didn't intend HIM to be dead, they just intended to use someones fully rendered and designed head to represent someone (else) who's dead!
Just wanted to quickly say that the beam contradicting known technology isn't really an issue. Yes, the Mass Relays are the only established way of travelling but don't forget that they were made by the Reapers (or the Leviathans doesn't really matter) so that galactic society would progress in a way that would make it easy for the Reapers to complete their harvest. Maybe the beam is a technology that the Reapers created over time but kept to themselves, leaving the 'inferior' Mass Relays to the galaxy? They have been around for millions of years.
Most of this is just typical of game development. It's easier just to default to a burned piece of armor rather than to individually change each piece of armor for a scene that lasts a few minutes at most. That's also why the dead soldiers have the default texture if their armor, why detail it when you will barely notice it? It's just a waste of resources.
The same goes with the transitional effects and the blurry horizon. Shepard was just in a huge explosion and the blurred horizon is to give the illusion of shell shock, that's also why they reuse the same noise in the dream sequence and change it up a bit. Reusing assets like this happens all the time to save costs.
I think this indoctrination theory is giving Bioware way too much credit. It's just a shitty, rushed engine made by shitty writers.
sentinelx1337 watch the similarities between when Leviathan first goes in Shepard's head to when we meet the Catalyst. Both have Shepard on his knees with someone walking to him. Leviathan and the Reapers are in his head.
sentinelx1337 But then why didn't we default to other armors for the dream sequences, when it would make more sense? If this wasn't the only case of changed armor, I might be able to buy your logic, but it just seems WAY too coincidental given the rest of the gameplay mechanic changes up to this point.
sentinelx1337 have you worked in game development? No? okay now shush.
nectoposting, but i couldn't agree more. It's like I will attempt to find deep meaning in Rambo series (for exmp): "Oh my god, these guyz can't shot this dude while being 2 steps close to him! Maybe it's some kind of a defensive field, which doesn't allow bullets to hit him?! Or maybe he is a mage? OR MAYBE IT'S JUST "RAMBO" SEREIES???
Too much credit for Bioware with Indoctrination theory, I agree. I want this to be truth, badly. But, imo, it's not. Unfortunately.
Looking back at this-
It is probable Harbinger was trying to preserve Shepard's body and just grazed him with the beam.
I never noticed this until 54:46 , but am I crazy, or does the 1M1 beam look exactly like the Viper sniper rifle? **a few frantic minutes later** Okay, as far as I can tell, the Viper does not say 1M1 on it anywhere, it's just a really funny coincidence. I swear though, especially just looking at the barrel/unjamming rod and the stock, it could be the fuckin' Viper.
hey his second channel was banned just a heads up for that anno
This ending would make the most sense for continuing the story in future games too