The Stagnation of TF2 (A Conversation with ZestyJesus)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Just take the time to listen to some of the thoughts in this discussion and give your two cents below. Ignore any rage bait/seething in the comments, you already know which website they come from.
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:10 TF2 isn't "Dead"
3:00 Social Stagnancy
6:22 Recycle Culture
9:58 Schizo/Stubborn Fanbase
13:34 Mobs are Fun!
18:11 Outreach/Conversations
20:59 The Loud Minority
21:58 What Do We Deserve
25:53 How TF2 "Died", How Should it End?
29:44 Valve's Biggest Mistake
32:00 Glass Ceiling
36:46 Everyone's a UA-camr
39:50 Contentless Creators
42:14 Wrong Priorities
45:09 What To Value
47:03 Love Hurts
50:32 The Negative Feedback Loop
54:16 Midwestern Goodbye - Ігри
![[TF2] Slept On Weapons](/img/n.gif)
"it's so stagnant, I want other game"
Go play another game then!
I'm sorry to ask but did you watch the video?
@@RubberMango no, I'm not looking to waste my time
how say... Ive been in plenty of games lately with doomposting fetishists, Im tired of it, and now im seeing "tf2 is stagnant, this bad" after the fact its remained so much the same is part of the charm... i dont come on and see microtransactions jsut to play the game or some new weapons, or woke nonsense or sexcual harrassment in management constantly...
tbh valve couldve, shouldve stopped abck with the spy wallhacks... pyro update didnt need to happen.
@@elgatochurrodidn't watch the video, opinion now invalid
@@MaxxYurri tomorrow then but if its more fetishistic doomposting....
I see it has a old toy you have from your childhood. You keep it on a shelf and look at it, occasionally pick it and sort of play with it and remember the good times. But it clearly a piece from a by gone era. Something you can never really get back but you can still enjoy the memory and maybe even make a few new memories on the odd occasion.
It's a sentiment that a lot of us can agree with, thank you for the nice comment Ash
@@RubberMangoit could however be refurbished for future generations with enough care (in this case maintenance). This game can easily continue for another 50 years IF it's given attention.
@rockowlgamer631 the only problem is that it's on the side of the freeway rotting in the elements
@@RubberMangowould be funny if a third party company asked if they could grab it off of valve
I can tell you for sure that ill never stop actively playing
i think people often forget that its okay to have no filter on whatever words you wanna say, its just a matter of if it fits within the context of the scenario its used. people forget that last part, thats why you get randos who call other people racist for saying the n-word even if taken out of context
In what context would it be "okay" to say the N-Word? I agree with your point but the N-word is a really bad exalmple for this in my opinion.
saying it amongst peers who are comfortable with it, saying it in a non-derogitory or malicious manner, reading.
Again, the context within the words are used matter more then the words themselves. the only time you'd be in reason to claim bigotry is when its used to evoke bigotry.
No word should be considered taboo, only in context to when its used. I'll bet you this though, if i was considered a popular figure, they'd use comments such as this to claim im racist or something lol.
@@mgfp
You can brutally tear someone down without the need of profanities and slurs and vice versa. Context doesn't always make word choice ok, but it always helps contextualize what's actually being said. People can be insensitive without being outright discriminatory.
@@lukebytes5366 Theirs often a huge gap between something being insenstive and discriminatory, the key being actively malicous in what your doing. Unfortunately people wont really take the time to really spot the difference and assume the worse.
@mgfp If you're a White Person, you're not allowed to say it even to explain why it's bad. If you're a Black Person, you can say it every other word and nobody cares.
I've just learned to accept long ago that TF2 will be kept on life-support with the skeleton crew until Valve deems it unprofitable and cuts the cord entirely. Anyone who still believes that we'll get an actual update ever again is blissfully naive. TF2's golden age ended a long time ago, and there's nothing that can bring it back.
Crazy to think that they could expand on the TF2 universe and IP but refuse to do so. TF2 fans are the most dedicated and interactive fanbase for any videogame and yet Valve doesn't see the golden egg that it really is
just got reccomended this, I was there, it was a really productive. thanks for archiving
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hopefully, TF2 might get it's lifespan slightly extended. With the new update that'll port TF2 to 64 bit [fucking finally].
Sadly casual is full of bots and the community anti-cheat isn't even a real anti-cheat, just a list of who to kick (including people with silly names)
Rip sourcemod
tf2 be so good when you dont got someone bitching in your ear about how its dying
I do be missing pre-Jungle Inferno TF2
@@RubberMangopre meet you match hits diffrent
@@Someone_s_nick2if tf2 stopped getting updates before MYM. We would been in a better place for sure. AND NO BOTS.
No it would just be a bunch of braindead children coping about how great the game is like you.
These negative comments are weird imo. You guys weren't being outwardly negative, but realistic. The game is good at its core, and its community is phenomenal in the work that they do. But its stagnation is very noticeable. I started playing in 2013, and the vibe was just totally different. People were constantly chatting. Hell, I remember this one time I was in a mine craft server and this physics PhD was dead ass just answering questions related to space and blackholes. It was sick af lol. Now ppl barely chat in most community servers. It's impossible to explain that feeling from before to players that came after mym and beyond.
Then there's also the fact that we get no updates. Everytime we got an update its like you guys said whatever new weapons or mechanics were added had people on the game mirroring for hours haha.
Tf2 might never truly die, but clearly, it's more hollow.
Thank you for actually understanding what the message was. It's two people who do really love the game but hate to see the way it ended up
A lot of the negative comments come from people who hate Zesty on a personal basis. Has nothing to do with the actual game. Bigger tf2 creators said Zesty was bad so these dumb animals just believed he’s bad with no proof.
I will never not be grateful for the TF2 community. I’ve only been a UA-camr for six months now and have already built and found a community I’m so proud to call my own.
But whilst I think what is said at 36:50 is worth listening to, you talk like you have superior authority on the matter, when in reality youre another fellow small content creator.
Everybody situation in reality is different. And if there are some people out there that desperately need video games to keep their lives together, as sad as that is, I think it’s best to live and let live. If little Timmy gets happy from his clip dump channel, even if he’s doing the exact same thing as everyone else, then I think he deserves to keep that happiness.
42:35 and some time before this and also somewhere ahead I try to make clear that people should absolutely have fun and express themselves, its just part of a greater cycle of recycling/repetition, it's not to sound like an authority or to tell people not to do it, sorry if it came off that way
@@RubberMango I’m not so sure if you’re speak honestly now, or you were in the video.
“Everyone’s a UA-camr” is such a kick in the teeth to everybody who’s ever looked up to you or your content. Its the equivalent of saying “I got to 5K so I’m more valid than you” and “what you’re doing is pointless because you’ll never reach my level”.
Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, as I’m sure no one on this planet would be that egotistical towards the viewers who made them who they are. But either way, it didn’t come off as a very welcoming thing to say to newer / aspiring members of the community.
@Lonqudor eh it's just a quippy chapter name, just meant to catch attention, but it's true, anyone can be a youtuber now. Just grab OBS and let er rip
@@RubberMango I'm tring to understand @Lonqudor POV here and I just can't find where he's coming from. I feel he's really missing the point.
@@RubberMangoyou seem like a cheery crappy in the comments, which is nice. So I’m mentally willing to put your, in video negativity, down to a negative influence.
The whole reason I made my Steam account back in 2014 was just to play TF2. Hundreds upon hundreds of hours of just messing around in the crappy tf_minecraft and trade plazas servers barely even playing the base game haha. I don't know what it is but even now I just keep getting back into the game every now and then. The goofiness of the lobbies, the iconic mercs and just the general vibe the game has for me is unmatched. Sure nostalgia plays a big part in that, but I still hope Valve gives TF2 the love it deserves...
Banger stream.
My favorite part gotta be where a certain person in chat kept dictating to everyone to not say certain words as if it was their business.
Wait, what happened in chat? Lmao
@@RubberMango 52:19 54:07 58:12 59:14
Dude thinks he can control what I say on the internet.
i got my first labtop in 2018, i had followed 2ft via youtubers for a few years though, the first create i got was a blue moon create had/have a lot of fun with the game but i do wish i could experience it back in its heyday and thats why i am always for valve fixing it and keeping the game style how it is.
edit: tf2 is like the scene in would war z where the zombies are climbing up the wall, the ones who fall off of the pile are people leaving the game/community, and they are all trying to get to the top aka how tf2 used to be. this analogy is fucking stupid.
Watched it on stream, really good one.
Thank you for swinging by 😳
just because you dont want to watch a video about short circuit bugs doesnt mean nobody does
I think this comment sums up the entire video
And we talk about it, new blood and new content for TF2, it's just at some point its interesting but just not progressive content. Of course people have the right to do as they please, it's just that if you're from the pre-Meat your Match era it's just really dull now.
@@RubberMango Ive been playing consistently for over a decade and being able to explore the game in new ways like that is part of what keeps me hooked. Anyway I heavily disagree with a lot said in this video, the constant doomerism and rose coloured glasses for the past is crazy. If you aren't having fun in tf2 anymore just move on
@bonopo well I appreciate you taking the time to listen in and drop a comment, it's always nice to have conversations with people about tougher subjects
@RubberMango nope. Still interested and I've been here since like day 1
As someone who started playing in 2015. Just a year before MYM killed the soul of tf2. I lament the state of disrepair tf2 in. All i want tf2 to be fixed and get Quickplay back. And undo the stupid nerfs we got in MYM and JI. tf2 is honestly perfect as it and all it need to be is fixed and no matchmaking system. People think it's a joke but i feel sad about how the tf2 lore/artstyle is treated. The tf2 comics were a mistake and unneeded depth.
Edit: been following tf2 since 2011 (knew about it since 2008) but never had a pc. I used to own old bad laptop i played tf2 on in 2015.
This whole video makes me realize how much of TF2 history I never gotten to experience. I watched content about TF2 back in 2015 but only got into playing the actual game in 2016 or 2017 and even then I’ve missed out on so many experiences and memories that I could’ve had, which makes me feel both sad and unworthy to even like or play TF2 as I may not 100% never truly understand what made TF2 so special in the first place (which is unfortunately the truth I need to face)
I was born in the mid 2000s so I was pretty young during those glory years of TF2. Because of that, I was really late to the party as soon as I got into it. So, my question now is can I still at least enjoy TF2 for what it is or just simply let it go and move on to other things because again I feel nothing but shame in myself and a feeling of missing out on so many things I could’ve experienced.
this gonna be a good one
I know you from the bearded expense discord server, but I aint gonna tell you who I am!
@@scoutdude4455 hi muselk
I have no idea how I joined in 2020 and still actively play today. Can't imagine how many people that joined around and after I did were immediately turned off forever after less than an hour of play because bots made the game unplayable
There's some cool community servers, but there was a way better system before Meet your Match. The flooding of bots is just sad
@@RubberMango and the thing about most popular vanilla-ish servers is that they don't have true casual and usually are populated with players with a way higher skill ceiling that are hard to hone your skills against
I also started playing this game in 2020, the only reason I was able to get into it was because I already knew about bots and community servers before playing the game because I watched videos about it, pretty sad that it’s still an issue.
I actually got to see this livestream, and your segment is really good. Keep preaching RubberMango 🙌🙌🙌
love this vid | plus just gave me in idea for a youtube channel
tf2 will stop getting support that's inevitable but it will stay alive in some form through community servers like with counter strike or quake
I started in March 2015 and I truly miss being able to spend entire days on 2fort and Hightower just being able to conga and talk of strangers about the most stupidest of shit and not get bored, but now when I play the game it’s either bots hackers or nobody talks about pleasant things anymore. Maybe it’s because I’m old now the rape age of 18 not 10 years old, thinking the Pyro vision was the coolest cosmetic in the game.
It's okay to still enjoy a game after you grow up, it's just not the same experience and it's sad (also what a typo LMAO)
The WHAT age?
2 tf2 UA-camrs bite the hand that feeds them while complaining that the passage of time exists, I agree with a majority of your takes both of you I even chatted in this particular stream but god damn you guys expect unique videos to be made about a game that hasn’t had any meaningful updates in 7 years and died 9 years ago. What do you expect people to do, the best thing they CAN do now is move on or make videos about the games history and ethereal
Ideas like what zesty does, with the team recognition video I think that’s a step in the right direction but it’s really not for everyone. The whole rest of the argument just feels like “I miss old tf2” the 1 hour experience.
Your comics discussion especially just got on my nerves because it just feels like holier than thou rhetoric, oh how many of you have read the comics and everyone in the chat says yes so you can all feel better than people who haven’t who don’t even know they exist.
I think at this point most people will agree that tf2 died with MYM, not to say everyone agrees but just that seems as good a point as any to place an ethereal end point to the game.
P.S can you try and quell you guys just saying the r word, especially zesty saying it it’s not often but it’s just frequent enough to make him come across as just really crass and annoying when in reality he has some good things to say about tf2.
I don't necessarily want anything insanely new and cool, it's just that as someone who's been involved since 2011 it's not fun or entertaining at all anymore. The comic discussion was to just simply express how cool and expansive the lore and media around TF2 is, yet Valve refuses to expand upon it and increase the longevity of their IP. People only know what the game has become, not what it used to be and all the hype around comics and videos being released. I understand the abrasive response, but I really do think that while at times I have an angry/annoyed tone, nothing I say is at the expense or is malicious towards the common player. They don't know what it was like nor do I fault them, it's what they've been given and what they have. It's Valves fault 100%.
Came for the tf2 content, stayed for the life lessons, nice video
Thank you for sticking around long enough to hear them 😬
Another whole reason that I want to see the collective Valve community to pick up on (not just the TF2 community), is the rotten flatland culture within Valve, because while it sounded good on paper, it has brought more harm than good to the company in the long run. Also responsible for killing other Valve projects internally.
It is good that TF2 is not GAAS, because we are in control of what servers we can create, even though the other half of it is entirely based on Valve-created servers. Unlike other reprehensible game companies like EA, heavily rely on GAAS to the point their own games get destroyed and become no longer playable by the player base. We don't have to be a hardcore gamer to witness what is going on in the games industry is just plain wrong.
Just ask Ross Scott/Accursed Farms about that, and the video is known as "Games as a service" is fraud" in case you are wondering. I am grateful he is one of those people speaking out on these issues.
As for competitive mode, Valve should've made this an entirely separate version of TF2, while the rest of us, can play the TF2 we all love, so long as Valve does not replace it, like they f**king did with CS:GO. If that makes any sense to you guys.
Tf2 is not a play every day game anymore, atleast for me just play another game or do so something else
So is it over or is it not, I cant tell anymore
TLDR Yes and no
@@RubberMango Oh that really clears things up
@JO3748 it's over as in no more support or good updates but it's not because new people still discover TF2 everyday and play it
I’ve actually recently gotten back into TF2, and it’s the most fun I’ve ever had. Sure, it has its issues, but being able to dick around in this goofy ass game is amazing.
Absolutely, it's never gonna stop being an amazing game with great mechanics
@@RubberMangoI started in 2011, played until 2019, took a break until 2024. I don’t think I could ever replace TF2 as one of my top games of all time. I’m holding out hope still though. They’re updating it to 64 bit. Even if it takes a decade, I think we’ll get something eventually.
@@striker5563 I don't think anyone except for cheaters actually wants to see the game die, it's just sad to see our beloved game be so neglected
@@RubberMango I completely agree.
Regards to content and YT scene. I played both Team Fortress 2 and another game named "Phantom Forces". Both games are pretty old for todays standards, though Phantom Forces was created somewhere around 2015. Both games were pretty similar when it comes to content and YT scene, and how they evolved over time.
Both games are practically running out of content. Old UA-camrs have pretty much left, though they still talk about it from time to time, but barely play it. New UA-camrs are recycling the old content, yet they're still having a metric shit ton of views.
The reason is practically the same for both games. Most of the old players left, either because of no updates, or just straight up horse shit updates that ruined the perfect balance that the game used to have. I've seen that this leads to a conflict between the new gen and the old gen players.
It all boils down to new gen players having the sort of mentality that can piss off old gen players. I remember that TF2 back then was flowing with content regarding voice chat in servers. Imagine something like "Toxic person loses mind in server" or "Dumb kid rages in TF2".
That more or less explains how older TF2 was built different, and that it could be harsh and edgy. Not like today, where TF2's overflowing with those Trans, Left leaning people, safe space-y, and other woke nonsense that's prevalent on the internet right now. Not to say that it is bad, but that is now the new norm. Which practically kills what made TF2 unique in the first place back then.
Yeah, it's not that I like bullying or harassing people but I do miss the days of thick skin and shit talking. People really flip out now.
This game is like stagnant water in a pond.
Just wanna say RubberMango im with many ppl who dont entirely agree, ofcourse to older players such as myself the games content may have become derivative undeniably and the content/people around it. But to me tf2 lives forever because of the unique and well designed gameplay. Its like chess, wont get updated ever but will always be played. However I agree with the constant regurgitation, and i feel it just comes as being a reflection of the stagnation of the game itself. No new content, then no new content (online)lol. Tf2 is like melee where practically every single mechanic or quirk, wether it be surface level or some of the most niche impossible tech, it has been analyzed. Everything of that of that game has been discussed to no end. These things suck but they also reflect a deep love and admiriation for the game itself and how fun we find it. And i feel the same with tf2 and why i still like playing and watching the occasional content. Especially since i had quite a gap of playtime since highschool to now in my adult life it undeniably feels nostalgic and makes me positively reminisce. So ultimately i understand why some are the way they are. At the end of the day im of two minds with tf2 current atmosphere but i will always love the game. Im sure everyone has something they hold onto wether something serious or just a silly hat shooty game. Ultimately i appreciate how you are open to all forms of thought and show no negativity to those who even strongly disagree, thats the mark of a civil person so major props.
I appreciate that, the problem is everyone assumes it's a negative/angry point of view. The game has amazing mechanics that no other game can match, its just that things aren't what they used to be for the oldheads. Thank you for the thoughtful comment!
It's lost its mystique after playing on and off for over a decade, i think.
It's still fun, but it's not like you can re-experience the first time logging into 2fort with no clue what the game is about and what the meta is.
I still occasionally do stupid shit to entertain myself, but it's just stretching the games mechanics at this point (which are extremely unique and keep you playing)
i AM immune to propaganda, actually.
You're a pretty strong guy
I'm glad I quit TF2. There are so many issues with the game, the company, and the community itself. The game is in an awful state, bots everywhere, lazy workshop content that kills any remaining style the game has, and no actual content from valve.
Bots and cheaters is the most egregious thing, basically ruining the expirience for players with little to no action done on valve's part. Also atleast for myself the lack of freedom the bots put on the game made me do the same shit everytime I played, playing on Harvest or Hightower community servers until I got bored. With the way the bots are you really can't even expirience the game at all.
Also atleast in my opinion the TF2 community for the most part is bad. The majority of TF2 players a toxic whether that be: demanding people change how they play, critiziing someone for playing a class, taunting after kills, saying the thank you voiceline after every kill, being an echochamber that will dogpile anyone who has any differing opinion either on the game or real life, the TF2 economy is absolutely broken and inflated to high hell (only problem is keys have a set price and theire price doesn't decrease), TF2 content hasn't had a new idea in like a decade (I literally saw a high effort video essay on reloading, and I knew it was over) , and much more. If you look at places like reddit (a site you should avoid like the plague) the posts are discussion are always the same shit over and over again ad nauseum for years. Apparently the community used to be better in the past, but now it just feels derranged and a shell of it former self.
To be honest I would reccomend for people to quit at this point. The whole phrase "good things never last" is so fitting for TF2. The game has been in hospice care for way too long. I think a lot of the issues and toxicity of the TF2 communtiy come from how long its been around but also since TF2 players are trying really hard to hold onto a game that is practically in the grave.
It's like Zesty said, there's a stream of new people coming in as the old people leave, so it's like a merry-go-round of the same content over and over. Everyone but the newest people notices it.
the only thing left to care about in tf2 is the comunity and even then its just peaple tf2 is mearly the floorr that we stand on and talk about other things around the floor
I will watch later
I saw you deleted your BigB response video you made a while ago, considering everything you said in this video do you feel like you had a change of heart over what he said? I think despite the fact he tried to come off like a TF2 version of Mr. Metokur with a very aggressive mocking attitude, he was pretty much right about the state of the game being dead and whoever's left are either obnoxious grifters or people forced to conform to the status quo less they be ostracized.
Yeah, I only recently realized it was satire and bait with some truth sprinkled into it. Basically I was baited and was an idiot
where's bearded?
I remember hearing about how tf2 was over in 2014 too.
It's Joever for REAL this time
I mean, if the game is feeling stagnant to you guys, you should probably make new content for other games if you haven't already. I don't really watch your guys content much and I admittedly haven't seen the video. I know, it may feel that the game may feel like there is no more happy memories to make on the game, but take a good time away from tf2, and maybe a spark might come back.
I think once you do listen to most of it you'll see there's no malice or looking down upon the game and it's fans, it's just as an old school player it's sad to seen how mismanaged it's been and how the fanbase had a loud and self destructive behavior
Main reason why I didn't look at the video first before commenting was that it was almost 5am when the video popped up. It was late and the video was a hour long, but I still wanted to say something about the video even though I only seen the first few minutes of it and the title.
I have been listening to this video while turning off the audio while just playing tf2. I heard the discussion of mym and I wanna talk about that as well because I really do not like MyM.. Fuck the Meet your Match update. I hate that update as much as you both. I was there when it came out and i hated it. I only played on community servers and when I tried playing MYM casual, it was too laggy at the time. The servers had to start with 24 players with forced graphics at the time so my old potato family pc couldn't handle that, and I didn't have a job back then because I was only a little teen. I had to make due with the much more dead community servers and i hated it. Not mention, community servers were never filled with bots and to this day, they remain barely even having a single bot in them. Imo, we as a community, should just move back to community servers, but I do see why people play causal. It's more appealing design of the huds of it does make entice me to play it more but once you can look past the outdated designs of community servers. They are still a lot of fun with the niche collection of community servers I go on. I have no idea what valve was thinking with MyM update. It's affect on the game is still present with bots running around on causal and competitive being a rotting corpse on the main menu. It's the old valve servers you could play on Quick Play or on Community servers but now just filled with bots and a pre-time to waste time.
I do like tf2 a lot more since 2022.2023 onwards as it's a bit better now for me, but 2016-2021 was a bad time for tf2 for me and rarely played it.
You guys at the very least have somewhat talented people in terms of editing and video structure, the spanish TF2 community is even worse, they are shitty drama channels that post anything somewhat related to TF2 as short videos in which the scam site ad it's more than half of the video, its honesty pathetic, they could literally be replaced by AI and it wouldn't be a difference, I really wish this game would die already honestly, it just makes me sad see the state its on right now, I literally don't play casual and only use the old hats cuz they are not trash, been playing for 10 years, since I'm going to college now, it's a fantastic time to hop off the ship, I will forever appreciate my time with the game and its mechanics, never with the community, animators maybe but no one else, it's kinda their fault the game is dead, sad cuz there isn't quite a game like this one.
The mismanagement by Valve for one of the greatest videogames of all time will be a blunder told for years
Como me hago invisible con el empresario
TF2 4 LIFE!!
*sigh*
October 2007.
*swigs whiskey*
The Demoman posted this
19:59 miau
Also, everyone and everything is getting worse in general
Like irl? Relatively yeah but no need to be pessimistic there's always positivez
mentioning taylor swift like that while youre sitting in your chair talking about a 16 year old dead game that has only its deranged fanbase to live off of is crazyyyyy
what did he mean by this
@@RubberMango that taylor ate
Love me some doomer content (lie)
Im a TF2 enjoyer for over a decade and ive watched content since the like muselk and ster. I still watch new-tubers, its a fun game and fun content. You are just hating on the "new age"
Did you really watch the whole thing? I really don't think it comes off as hating
ew it's Mr ."You can say a word and not be racist"
me when I put quotation marks around something that wasn't actually said
Give the video a watch, my neighbor
You will never be a real woman lol