Change text of Tyranid detachment 'Unending Swarm' now to read ' Unused Swarm - because I can hardly see people using it instead of say invasion which still has some horde buffs, and which now are arguably better.
The shadow in the warp -1 says "each time a unit take SUCH a battleshock test" makes me think it applies solely to shadow of the warp. Wish it was in general though.
I agree, its only for the once per battle ability. Parasite gaining the keyword, just means you can have more units on the field to be able to use the ability.
Mawlocs with the vanguard invader keyword means you can make them use their death from below ability several times with the invisible hunters stratagem. This is huuuuuuge!
@@ernstbergerbrent Got here a bit late but this also helps the assimulator wound T12 vehicles on 3s in melee. Use assimulator in synaptic nexus for rerolls of hits and wounds of 1 and watch em just shred vehicles a new one.
strength 6 twinlinked melee warriors are even more impressive. they can now rip upto T11 vehicles apart. they wound T11 a little over half the time. but outside of vanguard theyre still stupid slow.
@@TheZaidge yeah theres other ways of increasing the wound roll too like neurolictor or stratagems. vanguard is still the best detachment for melee warriors though otherwise theyre too slow.
I purchased 100 unending swarm models, spent 200 hours painting my models, and the entire reason I started playing was because of the respawning stratagem.
That sucks when you plan for something as like this - feel your pain :( However, you can still run it like this in Invasion Fleet and use the D3+3 start to resupply endless multitude units lots of times? I don't think that'd be restricted...
The returning units strat change wasn't for the Tyranids more than it was because the IG was getting close to 500 points worth of recycled units every game most of which were really good. It could target units of 3 sentinels that came back with Lascannons and their One-shot hunter-killers, Scions that could Deep Strike with plenty of special weapons or Rough Riders with 10 Melta lances which are really good at threatening tanks or heavy infantry with a 12" movement for high map control. Nids were sadly a collateral.
@Coclroach I mean before they were completely shut down by trash units. Now they're hitting on 3s while in combat is a huge w and neurotyrant is unlikely to be precision out.
@@CoclroachCannot imagine it will not get errata’d but rules as written the Zoanthropes are not affected by the -1 to hit. As written it says Monster UNITS have the Big Guns Never Tire ability, but it says Monster MODELS get the -1 penalty. Zoanthropes are not Monster models, they are infantry.
Im almost certain Shadow in the Warp -1 in synapse only applies to it, and not other BS tests. The extra part of the rule reads: "Each time an enemy unit takes such a Battle-shock test, if it is within 6" of one or more Synapse units from your army, subtract 1 from that test." "such a BS test" applying only to the Shadow in the Warp test, which is in the text that preceeds it. Im more interested in the implications of Vanguard Onslaught now being able to re-use Mawloc's entry skills, and bouncing a Trygon around, or both more than advancing and charging them. Seems pretty fun.
Yes The -1 to the check is ONLY during the shadow in the warp ability Not just all battleshock triggers like haruspex/screamer/neurolictor etc He missed on that one
OMG I can´t believe how much they´ve done to Tyranids and the changes are all great! Really unexpected that they buffed Exos, game to their senses and added Synapse to the Neurolictor, so freaking good! And with our newly added Synapse buff, a welcome addition to the mid board. And that fact the the Hive Tyrant gives everyone movement and lethals is just so awesome! Raptures, 10 Barbgaunts, Screamer killer, 40 gants, Exocranes and Haruspex. Everyone´s auto wounding on 6es now. Man we gonna eat good now. And i just finished painting my Neuro Tyrant and i m half way through with my Hive Tyrant, what a timing.
your opponent still gets their whole turn to damage it. crusher stampede buff is completely unhelpful. because its still based around the concept of monstrous creatures being damaged without being destroyed and still doesnt give them any way to mitigate damage or heal. its a complete mess of a detachment.
Aw man, my Vanguard Onslaught will have more tools. i am so happy also running 30 genestealer. Yeah, let's goooooo!!!!! Man The Casino gun became a slap from hell to biomass!!!
Mucolid spore are awesome! I often get one and deepstrike it on the corner of a building making sure the enemy can not shoot it. It totally block movement and force them to spend resources getting rid of it
Something I've yet to see mentioned for Vanguard is the Mawloc's ability to do Mortal Wounds on entry combined with the stratagem to pull Vanguard units back into reserves. Not sure if it'll be super efficient, but the idea of redeploying a Mawloc or two multiple times a game could be fun.
For me it reads like the -1 for Shadow in the Warp is only for those test, otherwise it wouldn't be part of Shadow in the Warp but part of Synapse, as one of the benefits from that skill.
The new shadow of the warp -1 only applies to the ones per game use. It basically gives us the Nero tyrant buff without having a him. Only during shadow of the warp
hopefully this will give the nids the punch they needed against tough things , rip unending swarm ( most fun games i played , even the opponents thought so , very lore acurate before )
Question on a rules interaction: now that Neurotyrants can attach to zoanthropes, can said zoanthropes benefit from big guns never tire? A reference to a specific rule or an explanation will be helpful.
Honestly, that specific set of nerfs to unending swarm means I ain't playing until a rollback. I am not giving them a dime until then either. It's the #1 reason to play nids!
Instead of having a nuerolictor in the back line giving +1s to units you can use a broodlord now that it’s cheaper than NL and it can deal with more stuff threatening the back line.
I love your enthusiasm. I'm not even playing atm and you've gotten me hyped. I can't build my backlog any faster but I'll try! Ill have all 3 tyrants when I get to that sprue, last one left is Swarmlord...yay! Now they will all be viable it sound like
11:06 - sadly, rule notes "takes such a Battle-shock test", thus only applies to the shadow triggered one (with nexus tho, id expect leaper and neuro to be in 90% of lists just for battleline disruption and synapse to fighting units that had to reposition). For a list, i wonder the same about swarmy+tyrant with guards, something like: Swarmy as warlord + 6 Guard Parasitic ench melee Tyrant (thats S11 bonesword) + 6 Guard Neurotyrant + 3 Zoans 2 Phages 2 Tyranno with Ruptures 2x2 Pyrovores Then filling it out the last points with neuros, leaper and gaunts by preference Seems good on redundancy, chaff control and ranged shooting if one needs to stay on defensive round 1-2 Or for memes a kill list of Swarmy, 2 of each Norn, 2 Maleceptors and 2 Screamer Killers.
GW should have made the Unending Swarm revive a unit stratagem a 2-part strat: - 1 cp to revive 3+d3 models in an Endless Multitudes unit. Or 3+D3 models in 2 units within Synapse Range. - Once per game pay 2 CP to revive a full unit. Because as of right now, Invasion Fleet arguably has a better revive Endless Multitudes strat than the actual Swarm detachment.
Amazing dataslate - super happy with the changes; loving the rupture cannon at D6+6 damage, the extra strength for melee in synapse, keyword changes etc.. One question - what happens with the second part of 'Unseen Lurkers' strat in Vanguard Onslaught now with the universal nerf to 18"? The first part is fairly straight forward but the second part states if you had lone operative keyword, it would improve the range to can't be shot outside of 6" - does that second part remain 6" as per rules as written, extend to 9" (assuming it is meant to be 1/2 the range) or is that part nerfed to 18" as well (i.e. it does nothing to improve anything with lone operative)
10:20 I dont think you would get to stack the nuerotyrant for -2 to battleshock. That seems like you would be modifying a dice roll and not a characteristic. Im not 100% sure on that tho. Also the unleashing the shadow in the warp is pretty clear that its just for those tests and not any others. "Each time an enemy unit takes SUCH a battle shock test..."
We'll probably have lot's of vanguard onslaught. Genestealers going s5 with broodlord. Raveners are gonna be awesome. Pack of 6 got 42 atk. Move 10 can advance and charge. Can hit on 2 with Surprise assault. And got twin linked. That can delete any infantry unit. Plus Trygon for tougher targets.
Im glad you're happy, but sadly I am more realistic. first of all people forget that we come into this update heavily nerfed, beeing no longer capabale of easily scoring turn one outside of vanguard invaders and at a much higher point investment from turn two onwards.. with that alone we start at generously assumed 40% winrate.. (dont get me wrong, Im GLAD it is gone, but we needed SERIOUS help to compensate) a +1S to melee buff IS a huge deal against alot of stuff, yes. but it still does not help kill a single daemon primarch, a big knight or even just a leman russ.. so it probably barely gets us back up to 45%. the other "buffs" are just QoL, which ofcourse IS nice, but will not help winrate in any significant way.. lethal hits on HT is STILL not mathematically worth taking.. and by a long shot.. 235 points just to get a 1/6 damage increase to basically only exocrines and having it itself sitting back there with them doing nothing is just so much worse than tanking ANY other monsters that only cost almost half as much. 305 points for a single good anti tank unit, that is still easily killed, only moves 5" and has 24" range is never catching a magnus, so is basically a lancer at double the cost, with more damage yes, but at shorter range and MUCH lower survivabillity.. there is a reason zoans dont even see paly right now despite beeing the only anti tank gun we have/had And I am sorry to dissapoint you yet again, but the tyrannofex is still hugely overcosted for what it does and will still more often do nothing than something.... it WILL have to move to shoot at something from a smart player, so you still potantially lose 1 shot from a 1 or 2 at a 2/6 chance, you will only wound on a 3+ so again their is a 2/6 chance.. and usually you want to fire this thing against the REALLY big stuff, so probably looking at a 4++ or 5++ again reducing your chances by 2/6 or even 3/6.. so mathematically you are basically guaranteed to lose at least one shot.. you have no rerolls and no +1 to anything (unless you want to shoot an exocrine at a tank for reroll 1's to waste yet another 135pts). all this avarages out to about 6W per activation... 6W to a tank is NOT worth 190 pts.. and saying, oh its tanky, is no argument, because the opponent will simply ignore it.. its just 20 pts to much to be worth considering, spending almost 200pts on a often "do nothing" model is still a no go. -1 to battleschock only triggers on the shadow in the warp activation clearly. the crusher stampede is another do nothing buff, they WILL NOT shoot your model.. they just put another guy on there... (or you know, outright just kill it, becuase other armies are able to decide that and are capable of just doing that). OC 4 has NEVER mattered, and OC 6 will not change that, unless you have two monster models sitting on it against a 5 man battle line or 10 men squad, in which case these guys will die anyway.. we needed another big damage buff here.. .. and no point cuts is the biggest war crime, everything besides exocrines, haruspex and maybe warriors are overcosted, and some still drastically so.. having raveners (even though they are vanguard now) and von ryans at the exact same cost as warriors is just a joke. having screamer killer still beeing 20 pts more than haruspex for just T9 10W is a crime.. Having Carnifexes at the same cost as a haruspex with T9 8W, and WS/BS 4+ is just sad and makes no sense at all.. and these are just the worst condenders.. All the tyrant/swarmlord kit models beeing just hugely overcosted daemon princes, costing 50% more than even an already bad screamer killer are just not worth taking mathematically for just their buffs when you can just get one and a half or almost 2 just better models on the bord... because you know whats better than lethal hits on an exocrine? ANOTHER exocrine and shooting it at the right targets.. and having a hundred points to spare..
Any thoughts on Tyrannofex with fleshborer hive as a renewed viable option? With the Hive Tyrant lethal hits buff and assault. The volume of fire seems like it could be really strong. Twin linked and it gets sustained hits 🧐
Is Neuronode, the optimisation of vanguard onslaught detachement, impacted by the core rule update REDEPLOYMENTS ? "Rules that allow players to redeploy certain units after both armies are deployed (e.g. Huron Blackheart’s Red Corsairs ability) are always resolved after the Deploy Armies step (or, if you are playing a Crusade battle, after the Deploy Crusade Armies step), and before the Determine First Turn step, before determining who has the first turn. When a player uses such a rule, they remove that unit or units from the battlefield, then deploy them again using all the normal rules (for example, if all the models in one of these units have the Infiltrators ability, that unit’s player can set that unit up using that ability). Players alternate resolving any such rules, starting with the Attacker."
lets go, casino cannon back to being just a legit weapon ! and zoans being able to be lead by a neruotyrant is amazing to me, I pretty much started every list with a brick of 6 and a neuro always off on its own
If only we got some internal balance. The hive tyrants and the swarm lord are still insanely overpriced. Neurotyrant is now the best character we have by a huge margin.
HELP. I really love these in-depth videos, I’m learning so much from you and really appreciate how much work it must take to produce content like this. I’m a stand in for a 1000 point game against world eaters army and looks like I’m playing. I haven’t played in over a decade (which makes me feel old even though I’m 26) and I would really appreciate some knowledge from veterans to pass me off as not a complete noob as it’s the first time for me playing tyranids. Any help would be appreciated, so much ( I’m a little afraid they might squeeze angron in but with a 1000 points only maybe not)
They won't squeeze Angron in a 1k list, if they do then you've pretty much auto-won on points. Advice (prior to this update lol) against WE (which I've played ~50 games again in 10th) would mainly be to move block them. Its extremely hard to offer advice when you don't offer the units you have access to, we aren't an army which has a few units to choose from, we have crazy different play styles. Let us know what you are playing and we can advise from there.
Thanks for the response my list is: 1 x norn emissary 1 x hive tyrant (on foot) 2 x neurotyrants 1 x old one eye 1 x melee carnifex 1 x haruspex 2 x screamer killers 2 x psychophage 2 x tyranofex with acid sprayers 1 x exocrine 1 x maleceptor 1 x biovore 1 x deathleaper 2 x neurolictors 6 x von ryan leapers 3 x hive guards 3 x tyrant guards 3 x tyranid warriors (ranged) 2 x tyranid prime 9 x zoanthropes 15 x barbgaunts 10 x gargoyles 40 x termagants 22 x neurogaunts 4 x ripper swarms
Little update had the friendly game tonight. It ended up as a three way battle of world eaters, space wolves and my tyranids. Was definitely a trial by fire and learnt ALOT. Scored the least, definitely due to ignorance and bad plays on my part however I learnt a great deal and seen how to properly play the game (again). Will be coming back more prepared and with a better setup and game plan next time
They can no longer do an action if they advanced (even with assault) or in engagement range (even with pistol). These changes alone nerfed unending swarm but now with the new restriction of only bringing back one unit a game, their game plan of just flooding the board with mass bodies is reduced significantly.
A friendly suggestion - it's distracting when you pull the camera back to your face while talking about the bullet points from the images. We don't need to see you the whole time, it's much easier to follow and concentrate if we can read the bullet points as you talk about them.
Sorry but Endless Swarm strat from Invasion Fleet is not affected by the nerf. The change specifically says destroyed unit. Endless Swarm regenerates model to existing units. So Invasion Fleet can still be the horde.
Not totally true. The Changes to the Hive tyrant CP is huge. Now it makes sense to take a Foot Tyrant, with Instinctive Defense. Walking 6 Pyrovores and 6 Tyrant guard. It's a THICK amount of wounds to deal with. That alone has me hyped to Assimilation Swarm.
Rule Errata : Change text of Tyranid detachment 'Unending Swarm' now to read ' 'Finite Swarm'.
:(
terrible change. cheats that detachment out of a whole stratagem and arguably the only reason to even use that detachment.
Change text of Tyranid detachment 'Unending Swarm' now to read ' Unused Swarm
- because I can hardly see people using it instead of say invasion which still has some horde buffs, and which now are arguably better.
Unending swarm is now “slightly inconvenient number of bugs swarm”.
They should just give the detachment the strat to resurrect d3 + 3 models
The shadow in the warp -1 says "each time a unit take SUCH a battleshock test" makes me think it applies solely to shadow of the warp. Wish it was in general though.
I agree, its only for the once per battle ability. Parasite gaining the keyword, just means you can have more units on the field to be able to use the ability.
@@wh40kev98 sure but even with multiple units u can only us it once total per battle
Looking in the app the -1 is only listed on shadow in the warp
Correct the -1 is only during the 1 time use of shadows of warp
it's tyranids 2.0 and it was really necesssary
Mawlocs with the vanguard invader keyword means you can make them use their death from below ability several times with the invisible hunters stratagem. This is huuuuuuge!
Norns get additional stealth buff through FNP with dev wounds reversed to mortal wounds that do not spill over.
That +1 strength in melee while in synapse helps as well. Now they won't need a 5 to wound rhinos in melee
disappointed assimilator didnt come down in points significantly. it definitely should not cost more than the emissary now.
@@ernstbergerbrent Got here a bit late but this also helps the assimulator wound T12 vehicles on 3s in melee. Use assimulator in synaptic nexus for rerolls of hits and wounds of 1 and watch em just shred vehicles a new one.
Strength 5 genestealers :D
strength 6 twinlinked melee warriors are even more impressive. they can now rip upto T11 vehicles apart. they wound T11 a little over half the time. but outside of vanguard theyre still stupid slow.
You can make em s6 in assimilation 😁
@@TheZaidge yeah theres other ways of increasing the wound roll too like neurolictor or stratagems. vanguard is still the best detachment for melee warriors though otherwise theyre too slow.
Jus sad seeing the hierodules go to legen 😢
Strength 4 Hormagaunts :)
I purchased 100 unending swarm models, spent 200 hours painting my models, and the entire reason I started playing was because of the respawning stratagem.
Oh you sweet summer child
o7
That sucks when you plan for something as like this - feel your pain :( However, you can still run it like this in Invasion Fleet and use the D3+3 start to resupply endless multitude units lots of times? I don't think that'd be restricted...
Balance jumps all about. Its trancient its nothing we can jump onto as time moves inexorably forward. My neurolictors went from 70 to 90 for example.
The returning units strat change wasn't for the Tyranids more than it was because the IG was getting close to 500 points worth of recycled units every game most of which were really good.
It could target units of 3 sentinels that came back with Lascannons and their One-shot hunter-killers, Scions that could Deep Strike with plenty of special weapons or Rough Riders with 10 Melta lances which are really good at threatening tanks or heavy infantry with a 12" movement for high map control.
Nids were sadly a collateral.
Also big guns never tire zoanthropes with neurotyrant and they're hitting on 2s :D
Well with big guns never tire it would be 3s but everywhere else it’s 2s
@Coclroach I mean before they were completely shut down by trash units. Now they're hitting on 3s while in combat is a huge w and neurotyrant is unlikely to be precision out.
@@CoclroachCannot imagine it will not get errata’d but rules as written the Zoanthropes are not affected by the -1 to hit. As written it says Monster UNITS have the Big Guns Never Tire ability, but it says Monster MODELS get the -1 penalty. Zoanthropes are not Monster models, they are infantry.
@@FullFatMayo1hah. Yeah that’s true. They will definitely end up changing that
So Zoanthropes gain the monster keyword if lead by the Neurotyrant?
I would describe this slate for nids as "All gas, No brakes"
Im almost certain Shadow in the Warp -1 in synapse only applies to it, and not other BS tests. The extra part of the rule reads: "Each time an enemy unit takes such a Battle-shock test, if it is within 6" of one or more Synapse units from your army, subtract 1 from that test."
"such a BS test" applying only to the Shadow in the Warp test, which is in the text that preceeds it.
Im more interested in the implications of Vanguard Onslaught now being able to re-use Mawloc's entry skills, and bouncing a Trygon around, or both more than advancing and charging them. Seems pretty fun.
Yes
The -1 to the check is ONLY during the shadow in the warp ability
Not just all battleshock triggers like haruspex/screamer/neurolictor etc
He missed on that one
Yeah checked the app after update and the -1 is only on shadow in warp
OMG I can´t believe how much they´ve done to Tyranids and the changes are all great! Really unexpected that they buffed Exos, game to their senses and added Synapse to the Neurolictor, so freaking good! And with our newly added Synapse buff, a welcome addition to the mid board. And that fact the the Hive Tyrant gives everyone movement and lethals is just so awesome! Raptures, 10 Barbgaunts, Screamer killer, 40 gants, Exocranes and Haruspex. Everyone´s auto wounding on 6es now. Man we gonna eat good now. And i just finished painting my Neuro Tyrant and i m half way through with my Hive Tyrant, what a timing.
love that Neurotyrant can lead Zoanthropes! Hitting on 2+ feels good.
As a melee main, this is just what I needed.
Parasite of Mortrex - Someone pointed out Synaptic nexus could run it with Dirgeheart to cause mass chaos.
Parasite running the Dirge Heart in Synaptic Nexus is something I always wanted to try.
Came here to say the exact same thing. Worth a try for sure.
Imperial guard also abused renforcement but it was our best stratagem by far. This is a horrendous change, it really ruins the fluff of both factions
Zoanthropes with a Neurotyrant can now take advantage of Big Guns Never Tire, which is very nice
Another change that affects Tyranid is the change to votex of doom and the thousand sons psychic bolts cant target lone ups unless less than 12"
Crusher Stampede Trygon with OC6 coming in via 3" DS or rapid ingress and just stealing an objective, that isn't well screened, off anything non-chaff
your opponent still gets their whole turn to damage it. crusher stampede buff is completely unhelpful. because its still based around the concept of monstrous creatures being damaged without being destroyed and still doesnt give them any way to mitigate damage or heal. its a complete mess of a detachment.
Aw man, my Vanguard Onslaught will have more tools. i am so happy also running 30 genestealer. Yeah, let's goooooo!!!!! Man The Casino gun became a slap from hell to biomass!!!
Rip heirodules 😢
Dawg! I didn't even realize this! Now I'm sad. I love my heirodule kitbash
@@ajskojac771 I've got one of each, painted both of them in the last 4 months and now they just get to be beautiful on a shelf
This is awkward since I'm mid crusade and using a scythed heirodule
Yeah, this sucks, I have a lovely painted barbed and was painting up a scythed :(
@@jaanoseesti same here. I've been having all my sm friends paint up one helmet to add to the base
Mucolid spore are awesome! I often get one and deepstrike it on the corner of a building making sure the enemy can not shoot it. It totally block movement and force them to spend resources getting rid of it
Maleceptor is now 3Attacks, 3+ S10 AP-2 D d6+1, which is also nice
Something I've yet to see mentioned for Vanguard is the Mawloc's ability to do Mortal Wounds on entry combined with the stratagem to pull Vanguard units back into reserves. Not sure if it'll be super efficient, but the idea of redeploying a Mawloc or two multiple times a game could be fun.
Yes! And the ability to Rapid ingress, cause battleshocks and disrupt potential action units could be HUGE.
For me it reads like the -1 for Shadow in the Warp is only for those test, otherwise it wouldn't be part of Shadow in the Warp but part of Synapse, as one of the benefits from that skill.
Tyrant guard will deal with the swarm, the tyrant will deal with everything else!
Pour one out for our fallen heirodule friends
Worst decision, will miss them :(
The new shadow of the warp -1 only applies to the ones per game use. It basically gives us the Nero tyrant buff without having a him. Only during shadow of the warp
Yo 6 zoanthropes led by neurotyrant hitting on 2's and dont put a exocrine in the list to reroll 1's ou-oh 🔥. My list about to be smakin
hopefully this will give the nids the punch they needed against tough things , rip unending swarm ( most fun games i played , even the opponents thought so , very lore acurate before )
Question on a rules interaction: now that Neurotyrants can attach to zoanthropes, can said zoanthropes benefit from big guns never tire? A reference to a specific rule or an explanation will be helpful.
I have 9 pyrovre… not enought at my taste but assimilation swarms role play i like
Honestly, that specific set of nerfs to unending swarm means I ain't playing until a rollback.
I am not giving them a dime until then either.
It's the #1 reason to play nids!
It's really unfortunate, I think there is a way around it. I'll need to do some pondering, but I'm sure there is a way.
We have never been so back...
Funny thought....you can give the synapse keyword (+1 Str) with the Neurotyrant to units😮
This change makes being within synapse actually worth it.
Instead of having a nuerolictor in the back line giving +1s to units you can use a broodlord now that it’s cheaper than NL and it can deal with more stuff threatening the back line.
The Neuronode enhancement for VO got nerfed
I think these changes make warriors a lot more competitive. Cheap units with synapse for themselves and other units
I love your enthusiasm. I'm not even playing atm and you've gotten me hyped. I can't build my backlog any faster but I'll try! Ill have all 3 tyrants when I get to that sprue, last one left is Swarmlord...yay! Now they will all be viable it sound like
11:06 - sadly, rule notes "takes such a Battle-shock test", thus only applies to the shadow triggered one (with nexus tho, id expect leaper and neuro to be in 90% of lists just for battleline disruption and synapse to fighting units that had to reposition).
For a list, i wonder the same about swarmy+tyrant with guards, something like:
Swarmy as warlord + 6 Guard
Parasitic ench melee Tyrant (thats S11 bonesword) + 6 Guard
Neurotyrant + 3 Zoans
2 Phages
2 Tyranno with Ruptures
2x2 Pyrovores
Then filling it out the last points with neuros, leaper and gaunts by preference
Seems good on redundancy, chaff control and ranged shooting if one needs to stay on defensive round 1-2
Or for memes a kill list of Swarmy, 2 of each Norn, 2 Maleceptors and 2 Screamer Killers.
Saddest thing is i think Heirodules are gone from the munitorum 😢
GW should have made the Unending Swarm revive a unit stratagem a 2-part strat:
- 1 cp to revive 3+d3 models in an Endless Multitudes unit. Or 3+D3 models in 2 units within Synapse Range.
- Once per game pay 2 CP to revive a full unit.
Because as of right now, Invasion Fleet arguably has a better revive Endless Multitudes strat than the actual Swarm detachment.
Amazing dataslate - super happy with the changes; loving the rupture cannon at D6+6 damage, the extra strength for melee in synapse, keyword changes etc..
One question - what happens with the second part of 'Unseen Lurkers' strat in Vanguard Onslaught now with the universal nerf to 18"? The first part is fairly straight forward but the second part states if you had lone operative keyword, it would improve the range to can't be shot outside of 6" - does that second part remain 6" as per rules as written, extend to 9" (assuming it is meant to be 1/2 the range) or is that part nerfed to 18" as well (i.e. it does nothing to improve anything with lone operative)
10:20 I dont think you would get to stack the nuerotyrant for -2 to battleshock. That seems like you would be modifying a dice roll and not a characteristic. Im not 100% sure on that tho.
Also the unleashing the shadow in the warp is pretty clear that its just for those tests and not any others. "Each time an enemy unit takes SUCH a battle shock test..."
Ive never had to bring back more than 1 squad the swarm strat. I run 120 Gants and 40 Neurogants, so hopefully it doesnt slow me too much.
Sadly Vanguard took a huge hit with Neuronode no longer giving reposition after roll off for going first. That was the keystone of my lists until now.
Regarding the battleshock with Neurolictor, the -1 to battleshock test won't apply since it's not from Shadow in the Warp.
We'll probably have lot's of vanguard onslaught. Genestealers going s5 with broodlord. Raveners are gonna be awesome. Pack of 6 got 42 atk. Move 10 can advance and charge. Can hit on 2 with Surprise assault. And got twin linked. That can delete any infantry unit. Plus Trygon for tougher targets.
raveners dont really delete things as well as genestealers or melee warriors. not sure id use them. they cost too much compared to melee warriors.
Not going to lie, I love that Neurotyrants can join Neurothropes!
Im glad you're happy, but sadly I am more realistic.
first of all people forget that we come into this update heavily nerfed, beeing no longer capabale of easily scoring turn one outside of vanguard invaders and at a much higher point investment from turn two onwards.. with that alone we start at generously assumed 40% winrate.. (dont get me wrong, Im GLAD it is gone, but we needed SERIOUS help to compensate)
a +1S to melee buff IS a huge deal against alot of stuff, yes. but it still does not help kill a single daemon primarch, a big knight or even just a leman russ.. so it probably barely gets us back up to 45%.
the other "buffs" are just QoL, which ofcourse IS nice, but will not help winrate in any significant way.. lethal hits on HT is STILL not mathematically worth taking.. and by a long shot.. 235 points just to get a 1/6 damage increase to basically only exocrines and having it itself sitting back there with them doing nothing is just so much worse than tanking ANY other monsters that only cost almost half as much.
305 points for a single good anti tank unit, that is still easily killed, only moves 5" and has 24" range is never catching a magnus, so is basically a lancer at double the cost, with more damage yes, but at shorter range and MUCH lower survivabillity.. there is a reason zoans dont even see paly right now despite beeing the only anti tank gun we have/had
And I am sorry to dissapoint you yet again, but the tyrannofex is still hugely overcosted for what it does and will still more often do nothing than something.... it WILL have to move to shoot at something from a smart player, so you still potantially lose 1 shot from a 1 or 2 at a 2/6 chance, you will only wound on a 3+ so again their is a 2/6 chance.. and usually you want to fire this thing against the REALLY big stuff, so probably looking at a 4++ or 5++ again reducing your chances by 2/6 or even 3/6.. so mathematically you are basically guaranteed to lose at least one shot.. you have no rerolls and no +1 to anything (unless you want to shoot an exocrine at a tank for reroll 1's to waste yet another 135pts). all this avarages out to about 6W per activation... 6W to a tank is NOT worth 190 pts.. and saying, oh its tanky, is no argument, because the opponent will simply ignore it.. its just 20 pts to much to be worth considering, spending almost 200pts on a often "do nothing" model is still a no go.
-1 to battleschock only triggers on the shadow in the warp activation clearly.
the crusher stampede is another do nothing buff, they WILL NOT shoot your model.. they just put another guy on there... (or you know, outright just kill it, becuase other armies are able to decide that and are capable of just doing that).
OC 4 has NEVER mattered, and OC 6 will not change that, unless you have two monster models sitting on it against a 5 man battle line or 10 men squad, in which case these guys will die anyway..
we needed another big damage buff here..
..
and no point cuts is the biggest war crime,
everything besides exocrines, haruspex and maybe warriors are overcosted, and some still drastically so..
having raveners (even though they are vanguard now) and von ryans at the exact same cost as warriors is just a joke.
having screamer killer still beeing 20 pts more than haruspex for just T9 10W is a crime..
Having Carnifexes at the same cost as a haruspex with T9 8W, and WS/BS 4+ is just sad and makes no sense at all..
and these are just the worst condenders..
All the tyrant/swarmlord kit models beeing just hugely overcosted daemon princes, costing 50% more than even an already bad screamer killer are just not worth taking mathematically for just their buffs when you can just get one and a half or almost 2 just better models on the bord... because you know whats better than lethal hits on an exocrine? ANOTHER exocrine and shooting it at the right targets.. and having a hundred points to spare..
Any thoughts on Tyrannofex with fleshborer hive as a renewed viable option? With the Hive Tyrant lethal hits buff and assault. The volume of fire seems like it could be really strong. Twin linked and it gets sustained hits 🧐
Super interested to see how vanguard onslaught turns out
Hell yeah, thanks for the early quick vid
Me and my boys in the guard also abused the respawn strat. Fair its only once per game now
Is Neuronode, the optimisation of vanguard onslaught detachement, impacted by the core rule update REDEPLOYMENTS ?
"Rules that allow players to redeploy certain units after both
armies are deployed (e.g. Huron Blackheart’s Red Corsairs
ability) are always resolved after the Deploy Armies step
(or, if you are playing a Crusade battle, after the Deploy
Crusade Armies step), and before the Determine First Turn
step, before determining who has the first turn. When a
player uses such a rule, they remove that unit or units from
the battlefield, then deploy them again using all the normal
rules (for example, if all the models in one of these units have
the Infiltrators ability, that unit’s player can set that unit up
using that ability). Players alternate resolving any such rules,
starting with the Attacker."
Unfortunately yes, One of the only nerfs we took in this update.
maleceptor es S8 and S10, kept points and can help in the shadow of the warp turn… its a winner
Hi, just wanted to ask where does It says that the new -1 for Battle shock for the shadows stacks with the -1 that the neurotyrant gives
Managed to paint up half of my unending swarm so far... Thanks GW 🤮
Craig is a homie!
Thanks 👍
Nice update. My list up 👌
Neuro tyran IS auto include now with New shadow in the warp ?
Waiting yours next vids ✨
Now I need to come up with a new Synaptic list and as a new player, I'm struggling lol
love how excited youre man! hopefully upwards for the bugs!
...and how would you guys kit out the Tyrant? Meele or mixed?
I love the changes to tyranids I think 2 lictors are going to be common for doing secondarys lol
I'm still going to run my hive guard, and strength 6 tyrant guard juicy, good by t3 units!!!
lets go, casino cannon back to being just a legit weapon !
and zoans being able to be lead by a neruotyrant is amazing to me, I pretty much started every list with a brick of 6 and a neuro always off on its own
And ive loved on my rupture fex every single game anyways
This just boosts him to the stratosphere for me
@@scolack123 I haven't I rolled way too many snake eyes XD
If only we got some internal balance. The hive tyrants and the swarm lord are still insanely overpriced. Neurotyrant is now the best character we have by a huge margin.
Guard players feel your pain.
i kinda think of getting two neurotyants, one with zoans and one with neurogaunts
Cant wait to drop two mawlocs on my opponent turn 1 :)
That is a lot of potential mortal wounds to dish out. And then you can have them dip out and do it again later on... :P
Neurolictor going to 6 strength is good
Simce tyrant has lethal hits aura.. think now it viable to use a shooty weapon instead of pure melle
Definitely. I'm still not sold on it, but It's definitely viable.
Neuronode Stratagram got nerf? redeploy after deploy and befor roll-off?
If you are playing in the Tournament pack, it is now before the roll off. So a nerf there.
Will you be publishing new army lists to take these changes into account?
Absolutely! Likely to come some time next week!
So, Biomass back on the menu?
HELP. I really love these in-depth videos, I’m learning so much from you and really appreciate how much work it must take to produce content like this. I’m a stand in for a 1000 point game against world eaters army and looks like I’m playing. I haven’t played in over a decade (which makes me feel old even though I’m 26) and I would really appreciate some knowledge from veterans to pass me off as not a complete noob as it’s the first time for me playing tyranids. Any help would be appreciated, so much ( I’m a little afraid they might squeeze angron in but with a 1000 points only maybe not)
They won't squeeze Angron in a 1k list, if they do then you've pretty much auto-won on points.
Advice (prior to this update lol) against WE (which I've played ~50 games again in 10th) would mainly be to move block them.
Its extremely hard to offer advice when you don't offer the units you have access to, we aren't an army which has a few units to choose from, we have crazy different play styles.
Let us know what you are playing and we can advise from there.
Thanks for the response my list is:
1 x norn emissary
1 x hive tyrant (on foot)
2 x neurotyrants
1 x old one eye
1 x melee carnifex
1 x haruspex
2 x screamer killers
2 x psychophage
2 x tyranofex with acid sprayers
1 x exocrine
1 x maleceptor
1 x biovore
1 x deathleaper
2 x neurolictors
6 x von ryan leapers
3 x hive guards
3 x tyrant guards
3 x tyranid warriors (ranged)
2 x tyranid prime
9 x zoanthropes
15 x barbgaunts
10 x gargoyles
40 x termagants
22 x neurogaunts
4 x ripper swarms
Little update had the friendly game tonight. It ended up as a three way battle of world eaters, space wolves and my tyranids. Was definitely a trial by fire and learnt ALOT. Scored the least, definitely due to ignorance and bad plays on my part however I learnt a great deal and seen how to properly play the game (again). Will be coming back more prepared and with a better setup and game plan next time
Forgive me if this was already asked somewhere else, but what are the upcoming changes to assault and pistol rules?
They can no longer do an action if they advanced (even with assault) or in engagement range (even with pistol). These changes alone nerfed unending swarm but now with the new restriction of only bringing back one unit a game, their game plan of just flooding the board with mass bodies is reduced significantly.
A friendly suggestion - it's distracting when you pull the camera back to your face while talking about the bullet points from the images. We don't need to see you the whole time, it's much easier to follow and concentrate if we can read the bullet points as you talk about them.
Thank you! I try to break it up a little bit. I rushed this one a little bit so that editing could have been better.
Did they just move hierodules to legends?
Yeah they did sadly
Sadness
Yayyy…. Almost done 120 gants…. So happy I’ve spent all this time on them instead of those pyrovores.
Saltiness aside this is pretty awesome
Im sure it will be back in time! Just like other changes its never permanent.
I like the changes but instead of 1 strange I wood like to have 1 ap
New player here: Does the Warhammer App automatically get updated with these changes?
Yes! But often you have to go and manually update the app itself through your app store.
How does the melee warriors get strength 7? i see that they get to ST 6 from synapse but that's it
In assimilation detachment there is an enhancement that can add another str.
Play it right they get an extra attack too@@TheJasonDragonsbane
Sorry but Endless Swarm strat from Invasion Fleet is not affected by the nerf.
The change specifically says destroyed unit.
Endless Swarm regenerates model to existing units.
So Invasion Fleet can still be the horde.
Since the NeuroTyrant ability is the same wording that says "Subtract 1 from the result of that test" wouldn't that NOT stack with the 6 inch ability?
It's a little confusing, But Modifying the Characteristic is capped. But these rules modify the result, there for, they can stack.
Yes Yes Yes!
Nothing for the assimilation swarm 🥲
Not totally true. The Changes to the Hive tyrant CP is huge. Now it makes sense to take a Foot Tyrant, with Instinctive Defense. Walking 6 Pyrovores and 6 Tyrant guard. It's a THICK amount of wounds to deal with. That alone has me hyped to Assimilation Swarm.
Tyranids warrior / raveners / leaper strength 6😊
they need a synapse in ordere to get +1S ^^
The tyranids warrior are already synapse so S6 and for the other they are many option now
Another loser: Neuronode Alpha strike 😢 (happy overall though)
I still dont think tyranids are good. theyre just not bottom 5 anymore.
The exocrine lost strength. It was 10
It never was S10 in 10th Edition. Has been Strength 8 :)
You are correct... I'm not sure why I thought it was 10. I must have been thinking about the maleceptors
+1 to hit with Zoanthropes +1 to wound on BS units. Reroll 1's for 1 CP 🥹