We deploy JBL VTX A8 and A12 boxes with S28 subs all year round. Using JBL's new venue synthesis and CAD designing in 3D space ahead of time on our flown rigs has been awesome. I will say at the end of the day, there are just some gigs where we have to ground stack, the client provides a stage I can't fly from/won't pay for and I'm just going to run smaart/performance manager and do my best the get the system as flat as possible, while shading my zones individually to get close to reasonable. This video is my life day in and day out, all good info here. Keep up the good vids brother.
just a general comment, i love that all your videos are very consistent and your voice is very.. welcoming. its very nicely balanced. i think you did a great job :)
So ground-stacked line array vs high-power point source speakers (2-way dual 15" or 3-way single 15"), which works better if flying speakers is forbidden?
Question for you, how many db difference should there be from the front to the back.. at our sound booth its about 7db quieter than underneath our arrays.. also sounds harsher underneath.. is this normal? Thank you!
Very informative video. I have like 100+ questions because I want to build my own big sound. But general question: Is line array bullsh.. for clubs? And I mean club like for 200 people, so nothing big.
great, info thats why i tell people ypu are better using point soure with a pole, when stacking line array on top of your 24 inch tall subs. 🤦♂️ but most people think line array are the silutiion to al problems 🤷♂️
Thanks for another great video, its really the difference between using software and not using software. Even having just a simple prediction on a set of boxes for a given distance, would improve the audio greatly.. Personally I've created a set of "basic" deployments from 20 up to 60 meters, with 4,6,8 or 12 boxes. That is easy to rig and deploy using predetermined angles and EQ, ready to deploy in RDnet. Great stuff, and thanks again!
I have a feeling this is an ignorant question but it seems this is assuming the same amplitude is provided to all boxes. Are there situations where you are fine tuning by adding gain for example to fill those middle spots before the bleachers start to rise? I have a feeling that you'll say this is bad practice and we should be designing splay properly from the beginning, but it seems amplitude could be a fine-tuning tool.
I'll give you the short answer here, but Merlijn Van Veen has a killer article that explains this more deeply - www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/144-pick-your-battles We can only meaningfully use amplitude/gain on per-box or per-zone basis where we have isolation between the elements. Like I illustrated in the video, 250Hz moves outward is essentially a circle from a source, so we have high overlap between sources, but we end up with some steering by committee due to the distance offsets in the elements. We CAN use high frequency shading (~1kHz and up) since those wavelengths are short enough to have some semblance of isolation between individual speaker zones/cabinets. That's where I'd come in and use primarily high shelves to help even out the response of the array if need be. If you start doing large EQ moves on isolated boxes/zones lower than 1kHz or so you start doing more harm than good to the array.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Ah that makes sense, essentially if we increased the amplitude of a portion of the array, it would interfere more with the adjacent elements that are quieter and effectively they would start behaving like separate point sources. Thank you for that, very helpful. I have still yet to work with line arrays but I hope to someday.
The line instead of point source for a longer reach with less loss of SPL makes sense, but how does the subwoofers do? Will they keep the SPL for longer, compare to tops?
Great video! My only question is since overshoot is generally desired, is there any particular reason why it isn't accounted for in the auto splay algorithm?
thank you, I have a HDL6a rig (12 boxes) and I usually just deployed by eye and ear. I only do one drive line to each side. should I ever be messing with the box gain or just the hf boost for shading
Of course, the low frequency coupling effect and resultant directionally is usually what we want with subs 😁 We usually don't want the more extreme versions of that as the frequencies get higher. (Not with a straight array per your photos anyway!). Great explainer! 😁
this is another reason im going with the new qsc L class units.. ai and wireless communication and the app make setup easy and flawless everytime, my only question is when and why to deploy in mono/stereo, also when running stereo mains, do you run mono subs when they are in an array?
Thank you so much. I have one question. 2 RCF 9007AS Sub (20 Hz 7200 watt peak) VS 4 QSC KS118 (35 Hz 3600 watt peak) when I do cardioid on the 4 QSC do I get similar power? I want it to fill it in the chest for about 400 people portable setup for worship concerts. Also, can I use the RCF sub in normal 220 power plugs in the UK by using Powercon to plug cable? Thank you in advance.
It's hard to guess those things from peak watts. Depending on sensitivity that wattage could be different SPL and that's also peak so not always comparable between manufacturers. The best thing to do is set it it up and measure it. The second best thing to do is model it. I know Ease Focus has the RCF box but probably not the QSC. Maybe look for a sub with similar specs in Ease as a stand-in. Remember also that you can change the sub coverage shape with more subs. Maybe there's an efficiency gain from only putting sub energy where the people are. As a final note, if you want everyone in a room to hear equal bass the ideal location is in the air although that's not feasible in many situations.
I have the 4x RCF 9007. Its on a total different level than something like a QSC. Their prices should give you an idea of the difference. I would say each 9007 is about 2.5 times an RCF TTS18, which is already a way better sub than the QSC. The 9007 sounds amazing, and works very well in end fire config. Would 2 be enough? I have no idea what your music sounds like, but for our parties I would bring all 4 for 400 people. That being said, there is never enough subs for Techno. We use 230v power as well in South africa.
@@alohaadane Either 2x RCF TT4W or TT5A. Just received the TT4W flybars, so may run 2x TTW4 per side stacked one of these days. IMO if you run only 2-4 line array boxes per side, you are better off with a higher end point source. To me the RCF TT sounds quite a bit better than the HDL 10/20 I have heard.
Anybody’s line array can be badly deployed. I cringe when I see 8-10 vertical boxes flat as a wall. The concept of line arrays gives us the tools to avoid the ugly vertical cancellation that results. Very narrow vertical dispersion boxes are made by all the manufacturers I like to use. Without them, I don’t know how to cover a very large audience area with stock products.
The book "Between the lines" from Michael Lawrence goes over line array splay angles and why you want overshoot as well (Just adding it here because you didn't mention it in the video)
I'll cover more on why in a later video, but here's a great article from Merlijn Van Veen on the subject in the interim - www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/176-why-overshoot-is-advised
Excellent Video and it couldn't have come at a better time. I liked how you started by comparing it with a point source and how line array brings directivity to sound. I have a brand new install and am toying with the idea of having KV2 speaker install. One of their large format point source speakers. Feel they do much better justice to preserve the quality of sound. Any thoughts on that vs popular line array options available right now.
I don't have personal experience with the KV2 speaker, but I don't necessarily have a "dog in the fight" on which speaker approach is better. Each of have their pros and cons and specific use cases where they shine.
Great question! Those two technologies primarily use beam steering via phase and level offsets between all of their drivers to create directionality in the array. It's much more effective with high frequencies and it gets better and better at steering lower and lower frequencies as you add more boxes since the line length increases. A good rule of thumb is an array is capable of "meaningfully" steering the frequency whose wavelength is equal to length of the array divided by 4.
Hey Michael, awesome video. I'm always on the lookout. Thank you! I asked a question on one of your older videos, I'll ask here in hopes that you'll see it. I use Alto Powered Speakers. I doubt there are any GLL files to use in EASE Focus 3. Could I just use another brand of speaker with a similar coverage to get an idea of the predictions?
Yes the easiest thing to do would be to look at the fulcrum section of Ease Focus and match the horizontal and vertical splay angles of the Alto box you are using. I say fulcrum because they have a wide range of coverage angles but any speaker of the same dispersion is a good substitute for simple designs.
Really awesome video, but i have one question : if we have the line array up in the air, and we can not change the angles, is it possible to adjust the gain of each box to get a better coverage? And can we add equalisation to each boxes, to compensate the difference between low frequency and high frequency to get the best response?
Hopefully, I understood your question; If the function of overlapping for a close to equal sound dispersion and coverage isn't achieved first, the best response from your array might be difficult. In my experience trying to compensate for improper splaying makes me do more unnecessary processing and gain adjustment. If I didn't install the PA system, I'd simulate using EaseFocus (as far as the GLL files for the speaker are available on the manufacturer's site), bring down those boxes, splay properly, and process accordingly. I hope this answers your question.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Hello Michael, you mentionned the "Overshoot" and "undershoot", so that would be a good video :). + I more often have gigs where I don't even have enough boxes officially to cover everything xD, so overshooting would probably not be a possibility for me?
Brilliant. If you're line array-curious this is the video to start with. Then watch the rest of Michael's great videos on the topic!
Thank you so much!
We deploy JBL VTX A8 and A12 boxes with S28 subs all year round. Using JBL's new venue synthesis and CAD designing in 3D space ahead of time on our flown rigs has been awesome. I will say at the end of the day, there are just some gigs where we have to ground stack, the client provides a stage I can't fly from/won't pay for and I'm just going to run smaart/performance manager and do my best the get the system as flat as possible, while shading my zones individually to get close to reasonable. This video is my life day in and day out, all good info here. Keep up the good vids brother.
just a general comment, i love that all your videos are very consistent and your voice is very.. welcoming. its very nicely balanced. i think you did a great job :)
So ground-stacked line array vs high-power point source speakers (2-way dual 15" or 3-way single 15"), which works better if flying speakers is forbidden?
Question for you, how many db difference should there be from the front to the back.. at our sound booth its about 7db quieter than underneath our arrays.. also sounds harsher underneath.. is this normal? Thank you!
Very informative video. I have like 100+ questions because I want to build my own big sound. But general question: Is line array bullsh.. for clubs? And I mean club like for 200 people, so nothing big.
I think i need a video about low frequency distribution and subwoofer alignment patterns video like this. Good explanation sir. ❤
great, info thats why i tell people ypu are better using point soure with a pole, when stacking line array on top of your 24 inch tall subs. 🤦♂️ but most people think line array are the silutiion to al problems 🤷♂️
Thanks for another great video, its really the difference between using software and not using software. Even having just a simple prediction on a set of boxes for a given distance, would improve the audio greatly.. Personally I've created a set of "basic" deployments from 20 up to 60 meters, with 4,6,8 or 12 boxes. That is easy to rig and deploy using predetermined angles and EQ, ready to deploy in RDnet. Great stuff, and thanks again!
You got it! Great idea on having those starting point templates for different deployments ready to go.
I have a feeling this is an ignorant question but it seems this is assuming the same amplitude is provided to all boxes. Are there situations where you are fine tuning by adding gain for example to fill those middle spots before the bleachers start to rise? I have a feeling that you'll say this is bad practice and we should be designing splay properly from the beginning, but it seems amplitude could be a fine-tuning tool.
I'll give you the short answer here, but Merlijn Van Veen has a killer article that explains this more deeply - www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/144-pick-your-battles
We can only meaningfully use amplitude/gain on per-box or per-zone basis where we have isolation between the elements. Like I illustrated in the video, 250Hz moves outward is essentially a circle from a source, so we have high overlap between sources, but we end up with some steering by committee due to the distance offsets in the elements.
We CAN use high frequency shading (~1kHz and up) since those wavelengths are short enough to have some semblance of isolation between individual speaker zones/cabinets. That's where I'd come in and use primarily high shelves to help even out the response of the array if need be. If you start doing large EQ moves on isolated boxes/zones lower than 1kHz or so you start doing more harm than good to the array.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Ah that makes sense, essentially if we increased the amplitude of a portion of the array, it would interfere more with the adjacent elements that are quieter and effectively they would start behaving like separate point sources. Thank you for that, very helpful. I have still yet to work with line arrays but I hope to someday.
The line instead of point source for a longer reach with less loss of SPL makes sense, but how does the subwoofers do? Will they keep the SPL for longer, compare to tops?
If you're not also stacking subs up in a vertical line, only if the subs are in an endire or arc situation configuration.
You are using 250 Hz and 4 kHz for your calculations and measurements. Are these two frequencies representative enough for most cases?
Great video! My only question is since overshoot is generally desired, is there any particular reason why it isn't accounted for in the auto splay algorithm?
thank you, I have a HDL6a rig (12 boxes) and I usually just deployed by eye and ear. I only do one drive line to each side. should I ever be messing with the box gain or just the hf boost for shading
Fantastic video once again, Michael!
the 4k sound laser
Of course, the low frequency coupling effect and resultant directionally is usually what we want with subs 😁 We usually don't want the more extreme versions of that as the frequencies get higher. (Not with a straight array per your photos anyway!).
Great explainer! 😁
this is another reason im going with the new qsc L class units.. ai and wireless communication and the app make setup easy and flawless everytime, my only question is when and why to deploy in mono/stereo, also when running stereo mains, do you run mono subs when they are in an array?
Thank you so much. I have one question.
2 RCF 9007AS Sub (20 Hz 7200 watt peak) VS 4 QSC KS118 (35 Hz 3600 watt peak) when I do cardioid on the 4 QSC do I get similar power? I want it to fill it in the chest for about 400 people portable setup for worship concerts. Also, can I use the RCF sub in normal 220 power plugs in the UK by using Powercon to plug cable?
Thank you in advance.
It's hard to guess those things from peak watts. Depending on sensitivity that wattage could be different SPL and that's also peak so not always comparable between manufacturers. The best thing to do is set it it up and measure it. The second best thing to do is model it. I know Ease Focus has the RCF box but probably not the QSC. Maybe look for a sub with similar specs in Ease as a stand-in. Remember also that you can change the sub coverage shape with more subs. Maybe there's an efficiency gain from only putting sub energy where the people are. As a final note, if you want everyone in a room to hear equal bass the ideal location is in the air although that's not feasible in many situations.
I have the 4x RCF 9007. Its on a total different level than something like a QSC. Their prices should give you an idea of the difference. I would say each 9007 is about 2.5 times an RCF TTS18, which is already a way better sub than the QSC.
The 9007 sounds amazing, and works very well in end fire config.
Would 2 be enough? I have no idea what your music sounds like, but for our parties I would bring all 4 for 400 people. That being said, there is never enough subs for Techno.
We use 230v power as well in South africa.
Thank you so much guys for your insight and foresight. @psipyro what model RCF HDL tops and how many of those are you using with your 4 subs?
@@alohaadane Either 2x RCF TT4W or TT5A. Just received the TT4W flybars, so may run 2x TTW4 per side stacked one of these days.
IMO if you run only 2-4 line array boxes per side, you are better off with a higher end point source. To me the RCF TT sounds quite a bit better than the HDL 10/20 I have heard.
That was very informative! Thank you!
Soundvision autosplay and autofir is a good start to avoid mistakes
Anybody’s line array can be badly deployed. I cringe when I see 8-10 vertical boxes flat as a wall. The concept of line arrays gives us the tools to avoid the ugly vertical cancellation that results. Very narrow vertical dispersion boxes are made by all the manufacturers I like to use. Without them, I don’t know how to cover a very large audience area with stock products.
EDM delay multi stationary setup
Tq Michael..👍
The book "Between the lines" from Michael Lawrence goes over line array splay angles and why you want overshoot as well
(Just adding it here because you didn't mention it in the video)
He did mention it at 6:44, didn't explain the reason why.
I'll cover more on why in a later video, but here's a great article from Merlijn Van Veen on the subject in the interim - www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/176-why-overshoot-is-advised
I forgot I have an older video that talks about it some as well - ua-cam.com/video/DY0262JDRvE/v-deo.html
@@nunojorgenjstudio7954 was talking about the book not being mentioned, not overshoot, but I can see how my comment can be misread
@@hrmny_ sorry, I'm portuguese and failed at getting the intention of your comment 😬
Excellent video. Thank you
Excellent Video and it couldn't have come at a better time. I liked how you started by comparing it with a point source and how line array brings directivity to sound.
I have a brand new install and am toying with the idea of having KV2 speaker install. One of their large format point source speakers. Feel they do much better justice to preserve the quality of sound. Any thoughts on that vs popular line array options available right now.
I don't have personal experience with the KV2 speaker, but I don't necessarily have a "dog in the fight" on which speaker approach is better. Each of have their pros and cons and specific use cases where they shine.
k loses hpr still wins
How does this practice change when using EAW Adaptive or Holoplot elements?
Great question! Those two technologies primarily use beam steering via phase and level offsets between all of their drivers to create directionality in the array. It's much more effective with high frequencies and it gets better and better at steering lower and lower frequencies as you add more boxes since the line length increases.
A good rule of thumb is an array is capable of "meaningfully" steering the frequency whose wavelength is equal to length of the array divided by 4.
0:10 just why is my first thought
Hey Michael, awesome video. I'm always on the lookout. Thank you! I asked a question on one of your older videos, I'll ask here in hopes that you'll see it.
I use Alto Powered Speakers. I doubt there are any GLL files to use in EASE Focus 3. Could I just use another brand of speaker with a similar coverage to get an idea of the predictions?
Yes the easiest thing to do would be to look at the fulcrum section of Ease Focus and match the horizontal and vertical splay angles of the Alto box you are using. I say fulcrum because they have a wide range of coverage angles but any speaker of the same dispersion is a good substitute for simple designs.
@@benjonestech4981 You beat me to it : ) Yup, do exactly that.
Really awesome video, but i have one question : if we have the line array up in the air, and we can not change the angles, is it possible to adjust the gain of each box to get a better coverage?
And can we add equalisation to each boxes, to compensate the difference between low frequency and high frequency to get the best response?
Hopefully, I understood your question; If the function of overlapping for a close to equal sound dispersion and coverage isn't achieved first, the best response from your array might be difficult. In my experience trying to compensate for improper splaying makes me do more unnecessary processing and gain adjustment. If I didn't install the PA system, I'd simulate using EaseFocus (as far as the GLL files for the speaker are available on the manufacturer's site), bring down those boxes, splay properly, and process accordingly.
I hope this answers your question.
@@klausndubuka4929 it totaly answer it, thank you a lot!
Excelente 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
How can I join your discord?
It's a public server run by ProSoundWeb - www.prosoundweb.com/podcasts/signal-to-noise/
Another banger of a video! 👌
Thank you so much!
Thank You.
You're very welcome!
Great video again Michael. Looking forwards for the next video.
Thank you so much! What would be a good followup to this one?
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Hello Michael, you mentionned the "Overshoot" and "undershoot", so that would be a good video :). + I more often have gigs where I don't even have enough boxes officially to cover everything xD, so overshooting would probably not be a possibility for me?
Kinda defeats the purpose of a line array if they are not in an array.
Are you saying that splaying the boxes and curving the array "breaks the line"?