I find it absolute amazing that a guy on the other side of the planet has been able to let me enjoy cycling so much more. Neills YT video’s on SMP saddles made all the difference for me. I almost gave up after years of owning and riding several Specialized, Ergon and even SQLabs saddles. The first time I sat on a SMP Blaster, and got the nose angle right, everything just fell in place. Because of the minimal padding I expected this feeling would not last very long on my first ride, but I was mistaking. This SMP saddle gives so much more support in all the right places.Thank you Neill for giving me the push to try one of these 🙏
It would be nice to see Neill’s overview of shoe lasts: which are narrow, which are wide; which have high or low raise; which are straight and which are more banana-shaped. Such an overview with as many brands/models covered as possible would be so helpful to the majority of people who live away from brick-and-mortar stores with wide assortment of cycling shoes
Both good fitters, but Neil seems most knowledgeable in how the body works and especially in difficult bikefit cases. So no need for a discussion between them 😉
I think this would actually be a good idea. Both Neil and James are experts, but they are still learning. They could learn something from each other and this discussion would also generate good discourse for the bike fit community in general.
SMP has a test program. My LBS has a bunch of the red & yellow test saddles, you make a refundable deposit, borrow it for a week or two, and just work your way through the models. If none of them work for you, you get your deposit back.
I purchased an SQlabs 612 based off this channel. I am forever grateful. Been over a year since I even remembered I ride on a saddle. Excellent product. Plus it's the lighter than most other saddles
I have SQ Labs saddles because of Neill, and G8 insoles because of James. The 612 is the best saddle I’ve found for me so far, but I suspect an SMP would work well if I could find the right one. Some day I’ll have to find a shop that sells SMP and try a bunch…though they are ugly as sin.
Love your videos, finding the right saddle is challenging, Albabici, the US SMP importer will let you test several saddle for a holding deposit and return the deposit when you return the saddles, I found this very useful in selecting a SMP saddle. I love my SMP Evolution saddle.
I used a set of the mid foot plates on my road shoes to confirm my suspicion that I needed to move the cleat position back a bit on my shoes than they allowed for out of the box, and so ultimately I drilled them, but the plates gave me an opportunity to sort that out before I took a drill to the bottom of my fairly new and expensive shoes.
Neil, I changed my saddle from the old Specialized Toupe saddle to the Selle SMP saddle and after 30 minutes I love it so much. It definitely feels better then any other saddle for me . I actually put a SMP Well gel on my Spin Bike , It's amazing how great it is.
So…. selle smp - check (not planning on ever buying another brand saddle on any of my bikes), lake shoes - check, coefficient RR - check.. 2 bolt seatpost - check. Always went with Thomson as to me this is simply the most beautiful post and utterly reliable, now on my new bike a 27.2 Syntace P6 carbon which has an even better clamp and a lot more flex/comfort.. All in all, 4 out of 10. Not too bad.
I too have tried an SMP (209 Lite) and like it very much. Key is to set it up correctly and this is why a two-bolt seat post can be very helpful. Also, may need less setback.
Great content :) Please bring Neill with you on your next trip to Switzerland. Would totally celebrate a Bike Fitting Workshop with him. Guess other viewers in Europe would appreciate too :)
Prompted two thoughts: (1) I have really horrible feet (hammertoes) and custom molded orthotic insoles have been a game changer for me. You need to have molds made of your feet, and a fabricator who understands that insoles for cycling do not need heel lift. Cost was $200, so not crazy on the bicycle-things scale. I had a second set of orthotics made for everyday shoes. (2) My GF had a hip replacement, and initially wound up with one leg measuring 1" longer than the other. Big fuss with the surgeon, who maintained that X-rays proved exactly the same length. Answer was that the leg sockets are built into the pelvis, which consists of multiple bones held together with cartilage, so they can adjust WRT each other. They had shifted to compensate for her previous hip issues, and over time post-replacement adjusted so her legs were effectively the same length. Food for thought for you guys.
Thomson seat posts are amazing. Those conical, single bolt seat posts drive me bananas. I've removed carbon seat posts like that and replaced them with Thomsons. Happy days!
Think you meant the Lake CX242 (not the older 241)! I personally think the 242 still has a narrow *toe* box, and we should differentiate toe box vs forefoot/metatarsal head space. The 201s are my go-to for wide toe box needs when the toes are almost straight across.
got myself some SQ labs (coming from a selle italia SLR numb nuts all the time) still had those issues with the SQ labs. l recently did a 24h road race where due to pain l guess l shifted back on the saddle and the rest of the race was quite good. l just figured out due to years of sitting to far foward l trained myself to sit too far forward. now l run probably 5 different saddles on all bikes and no numb nuts. still sore tissue and scarring because l have to commute a lot in regular clothes. maybe l need a wider saddle ldk. but getting better and better on the bike thanks to cade media with bike fits tuesday but a lot more specific details from RCA/Neil.
I picked up a set of Patrocleat adapters after I saw it mentioned by Neill. I tend to do more Audax type riding and it really seemed like it would help with me getting hot foot, especially on long climbs. I initially tried it set all the way aft and it worked but I had issues with toe overlap and sometimes got tingly heels. Settled on a position halfway between my original position and maximum aft position. Think that's the sweet spot for me. No hot foot, tingly heels, or major toe overlap. It did seem to deaden my snap and sprint, though. All in all, $40 well spent.
I have an SMP LITE saddle. Looks like the one in this video. My problem with it is if I put it in the recommended tilt range I fell like I am constantly sliding down the steep rear half of the saddle toward the front of the saddle. Considering putting Velcro on the saddle and my bibs. 🤔🙄😬🤣
Very clear explanations but it would have been good to see names of items on screen and close ups of black items displayed in front his black tee shirt. More visuals.
Lake, speedplay, sq labs all excellent I use all three.. lake I wouldn’t buy any other brand.. and Gilles Bertoud saddles to.. shout out to deda products and Campagnolo to love them 😊 ❤ Pete
I like those lists, because "strong opinions loosely held" of some fitters about the shoes or saddles give you a decent starting point if you are new to the sport. The benefit of a good fitter is the fact that you can try few permutations of the setup if you have specific issues. Love the highlighting of zero offset saddle posts. Game changer for me. However, do not ignore some of the "hated" products, because they might actually fit you best. So just keep your mind open a little, but not too much, because your brain will fall out and you might start riding on Brooks Saddle and 50 cm gravel bars. Selle Italia Boost SLR (L3 for my football hips) in my perineal opinion is better than few SMP's I've tried. I can ride this saddle without bib shorts. I think I have pretty narrow feet, because I tried different Lakes and Shimanos and they were touch too wide for me (even taking account for foot swelling). I ended up matching perfectly with Fiz'ik R4 Tempo Overcurve, and X3 Vento Overcurve. Brand hated by some more vocal fitters online, for good reasons most of the times (Fiz'ik Arione) :D. Look at the size in cm because wearing normally 42, my cycling shoes are 41. The cleat bolts on both models are slightly back compared to other Fiz'ik shoes. I wish they were a bit more back or adjustable on the R4s, but they are enough as is, and that's a very small sacrifice for a glove like feel for my feet.
Can this product be used to ‘condition’ out restore contaminated wax? Say I suspect that a chain I waxed was not cleaned properly and now my wax has been compromised. Could I pop a square into that wax to remove the oil?
I like your videos very informative however I’ve worked with G8 and I think they are good conceptually but a very bad shape and don’t fit in shoes without a lot of modification. Have you used the Sidas product ?
I must say, I was dragged kicking and screaming from SPDs into road cleats.. just got to love being able to walk around normally.. I bought a high end Aero road bike, and I just could put SPDs on it.. I know.. its dumb.. but no one looks funny at me anymore on the Saturday group ride.. :)
Not sure if Neill will get around to comments on this one but if so I want to try those Form shims for my SPD cleats. I'm getting left side anterior knee pain almost entirely in higher torque lower cadence situations. Climbs 8 or %10 or steeper when seated. Recently got a saddle sore on the right side as well and never had one. I'm curious if this would usually mean the left leg might be shorter or the right?
Half-dishonourable mention to Cannondale who managed to mess up the bolts on their zero offset post (yay) in a way that the front one is barely accessible with the thinnest of allen keys (meh!).
Inspired by Cade Media (again), Neill's version...
Love what Francis, Jimmy, and Emily for what they are doing. It's great to see what Neill loves.
Needs more ums and ahs to be like BFJ.
Shouty James the Zealot will be screaming watching this
I luv watching Francis' Cade's channel..but this does similar things at times but great also 👌
I find it absolute amazing that a guy on the other side of the planet has been able to let me enjoy cycling so much more. Neills YT video’s on SMP saddles made all the difference for me. I almost gave up after years of owning and riding several Specialized, Ergon and even SQLabs saddles. The first time I sat on a SMP Blaster, and got the nose angle right, everything just fell in place. Because of the minimal padding I expected this feeling would not last very long on my first ride, but I was mistaking. This SMP saddle gives so much more support in all the right places.Thank you Neill for giving me the push to try one of these 🙏
It would be nice to see Neill’s overview of shoe lasts: which are narrow, which are wide; which have high or low raise; which are straight and which are more banana-shaped. Such an overview with as many brands/models covered as possible would be so helpful to the majority of people who live away from brick-and-mortar stores with wide assortment of cycling shoes
I would love to see a Skype discussion between Neil and James! The plethora of knowledge bequeathed would be immense!
THAT would be the video to watch!
Both good fitters, but Neil seems most knowledgeable in how the body works and especially in difficult bikefit cases. So no need for a discussion between them 😉
@MrJaycobsen I get where you're coming from but at the same time, I don't agree 😉
I think this would actually be a good idea. Both Neil and James are experts, but they are still learning. They could learn something from each other and this discussion would also generate good discourse for the bike fit community in general.
@@ShadowzKiller Precisely!
SMP has a test program. My LBS has a bunch of the red & yellow test saddles, you make a refundable deposit, borrow it for a week or two, and just work your way through the models. If none of them work for you, you get your deposit back.
SPD Gang! No need to worry about worn out cleats for a long time :)
Been on a SQLab Active for 8yrs now. Loving it. My forever saddle.
I purchased an SQlabs 612 based off this channel. I am forever grateful. Been over a year since I even remembered I ride on a saddle. Excellent product. Plus it's the lighter than most other saddles
I have SQ Labs saddles because of Neill, and G8 insoles because of James.
The 612 is the best saddle I’ve found for me so far, but I suspect an SMP would work well if I could find the right one. Some day I’ll have to find a shop that sells SMP and try a bunch…though they are ugly as sin.
Love your videos, finding the right saddle is challenging, Albabici, the US SMP importer will let you test several saddle for a holding deposit and return the deposit when you return the saddles, I found this very useful in selecting a SMP saddle. I love my SMP Evolution saddle.
I used a set of the mid foot plates on my road shoes to confirm my suspicion that I needed to move the cleat position back a bit on my shoes than they allowed for out of the box, and so ultimately I drilled them, but the plates gave me an opportunity to sort that out before I took a drill to the bottom of my fairly new and expensive shoes.
Neil, I changed my saddle from the old Specialized Toupe saddle to the Selle SMP saddle and after 30 minutes I love it so much. It definitely feels better then any other saddle for me .
I actually put a SMP Well gel on my Spin Bike , It's amazing how great it is.
After getting my Lake Shoes extra wide, I’ve found a shoe which fits fantastic😍
So…. selle smp - check (not planning on ever buying another brand saddle on any of my bikes), lake shoes - check, coefficient RR - check.. 2 bolt seatpost - check. Always went with Thomson as to me this is simply the most beautiful post and utterly reliable, now on my new bike a 27.2 Syntace P6 carbon which has an even better clamp and a lot more flex/comfort.. All in all, 4 out of 10. Not too bad.
I too have tried an SMP (209 Lite) and like it very much. Key is to set it up correctly and this is why a two-bolt seat post can be very helpful. Also, may need less setback.
Wide Lake shoes! Best fitting shoes I ever used!
Thanks to you both, I now ride the SQ 612. For me, it's a real game changer. Cheers. .
Great content :) Please bring Neill with you on your next trip to Switzerland. Would totally celebrate a Bike Fitting Workshop with him. Guess other viewers in Europe would appreciate too :)
Prompted two thoughts:
(1) I have really horrible feet (hammertoes) and custom molded orthotic insoles have been a game changer for me. You need to have molds made of your feet, and a fabricator who understands that insoles for cycling do not need heel lift. Cost was $200, so not crazy on the bicycle-things scale. I had a second set of orthotics made for everyday shoes.
(2) My GF had a hip replacement, and initially wound up with one leg measuring 1" longer than the other. Big fuss with the surgeon, who maintained that X-rays proved exactly the same length. Answer was that the leg sockets are built into the pelvis, which consists of multiple bones held together with cartilage, so they can adjust WRT each other. They had shifted to compensate for her previous hip issues, and over time post-replacement adjusted so her legs were effectively the same length. Food for thought for you guys.
Amen to the fore/aft two-bolt seatpost clamp.
Thomson seat posts are amazing. Those conical, single bolt seat posts drive me bananas. I've removed carbon seat posts like that and replaced them with Thomsons. Happy days!
I LOVE the SMP TRK saddle on my gravel bike. It’s not the prettiest of SMPs but it’s just amazingly comfortable.
Think you meant the Lake CX242 (not the older 241)! I personally think the 242 still has a narrow *toe* box, and we should differentiate toe box vs forefoot/metatarsal head space. The 201s are my go-to for wide toe box needs when the toes are almost straight across.
SMP Saddles made cycling possible for me.....nothing else works 😎
got myself some SQ labs (coming from a selle italia SLR numb nuts all the time) still had those issues with the SQ labs. l recently did a 24h road race where due to pain l guess l shifted back on the saddle and the rest of the race was quite good. l just figured out due to years of sitting to far foward l trained myself to sit too far forward. now l run probably 5 different saddles on all bikes and no numb nuts. still sore tissue and scarring because l have to commute a lot in regular clothes. maybe l need a wider saddle ldk. but getting better and better on the bike thanks to cade media with bike fits tuesday but a lot more specific details from RCA/Neil.
My ass is so accustom to the Sq labs other saddles just wont for me anymore. They are amazing saddles.
I agree with most of these. The more I watch your videos the more I know that you "see" your bike fits in a similar way to me.
I picked up a set of Patrocleat adapters after I saw it mentioned by Neill. I tend to do more Audax type riding and it really seemed like it would help with me getting hot foot, especially on long climbs. I initially tried it set all the way aft and it worked but I had issues with toe overlap and sometimes got tingly heels. Settled on a position halfway between my original position and maximum aft position. Think that's the sweet spot for me. No hot foot, tingly heels, or major toe overlap. It did seem to deaden my snap and sprint, though. All in all, $40 well spent.
Another awesome video gents 🎉
I've been on SMP for over 10yrs now, smp lite 209 and now the TT5.. wide Lake shoes (238) is another thing i WISH id have had when i started
I have an SMP LITE saddle. Looks like the one in this video. My problem with it is if I put it in the recommended tilt range I fell like I am constantly sliding down the steep rear half of the saddle toward the front of the saddle. Considering putting Velcro on the saddle and my bibs. 🤔🙄😬🤣
Very clear explanations but it would have been good to see names of items on screen and close ups of black items displayed in front his black tee shirt. More visuals.
If you look down on SPDs, what about us flat users? :)
Lake, speedplay, sq labs all excellent I use all three.. lake I wouldn’t buy any other brand.. and Gilles Bertoud saddles to.. shout out to deda products and Campagnolo to love them 😊 ❤ Pete
Eggbeater road cyclist checking in!
I like those lists, because "strong opinions loosely held" of some fitters about the shoes or saddles give you a decent starting point if you are new to the sport. The benefit of a good fitter is the fact that you can try few permutations of the setup if you have specific issues. Love the highlighting of zero offset saddle posts. Game changer for me. However, do not ignore some of the "hated" products, because they might actually fit you best. So just keep your mind open a little, but not too much, because your brain will fall out and you might start riding on Brooks Saddle and 50 cm gravel bars.
Selle Italia Boost SLR (L3 for my football hips) in my perineal opinion is better than few SMP's I've tried. I can ride this saddle without bib shorts. I think I have pretty narrow feet, because I tried different Lakes and Shimanos and they were touch too wide for me (even taking account for foot swelling). I ended up matching perfectly with Fiz'ik R4 Tempo Overcurve, and X3 Vento Overcurve. Brand hated by some more vocal fitters online, for good reasons most of the times (Fiz'ik Arione) :D. Look at the size in cm because wearing normally 42, my cycling shoes are 41. The cleat bolts on both models are slightly back compared to other Fiz'ik shoes. I wish they were a bit more back or adjustable on the R4s, but they are enough as is, and that's a very small sacrifice for a glove like feel for my feet.
Can this product be used to ‘condition’ out restore contaminated wax? Say I suspect that a chain I waxed was not cleaned properly and now my wax has been compromised. Could I pop a square into that wax to remove the oil?
Love the lake shoes and have the G8 insoles.
Do you find the SQlab saddle width calculator is correct? ie sit bone width + 20mm . The Carlsberg of bike fitting 🙌🏻
I like your videos very informative however I’ve worked with G8 and I think they are good conceptually but a very bad shape and don’t fit in shoes without a lot of modification.
Have you used the Sidas product ?
I love Neill.
I must say, I was dragged kicking and screaming from SPDs into road cleats.. just got to love being able to walk around normally.. I bought a high end Aero road bike, and I just could put SPDs on it.. I know.. its dumb.. but no one looks funny at me anymore on the Saturday group ride.. :)
Look have got walkable shoes but the disadvantage is you can’t change cleat angle.
I had a Stratos and I really miss it.
Not sure if Neill will get around to comments on this one but if so I want to try those Form shims for my SPD cleats. I'm getting left side anterior knee pain almost entirely in higher torque lower cadence situations. Climbs 8 or %10 or steeper when seated. Recently got a saddle sore on the right side as well and never had one. I'm curious if this would usually mean the left leg might be shorter or the right?
13:25 so glad I ride on flatties 😂
What is your opinion of the infinity saddle. This saddles looks weird and have totally other approach how to divide the pressure
hate the SMP (specialized saddle works nice), love insoles and wedges in my shoes
True words... Side clamping seatposts that use an interference system are awful 😡
Half-dishonourable mention to Cannondale who managed to mess up the bolts on their zero offset post (yay) in a way that the front one is barely accessible with the thinnest of allen keys (meh!).
Those bars and thar smp saddle are abominable 🤢 ....suitable only for that Elves 🤮🤣👍