Overall both healing AND incomming dmg needs to be toned way way way down To make the pace of the game feel like its not a huge button mash to swing bars up and down. If they can accomplish that theyll bring back a more traditional feel and win the crowd.
this has honestly been the biggest underlying insidious thing hurting this game since BFA seeing them start to work on changing this is actually incredible. most important expansion feature lol
Appreciate you, Supatease, and your skill at reading aloud at such a high speed. You do this, and add insight at the same time about as quickly as I'd read the notes myself! Edit: who am I kidding, it's even faster lol.
Couldn’t agree more, like why do dps warriors have so much healing? (In pvp this is) they can regularly be the top healing below the healers. Warriors survivability should be through mitigation from armor and not healing, while clothies should survive by avoiding getting hit. It’s not only warriors that’s the problem it’s most classes this is just an example. Reduce self healing and make armor great again.
Couldn’t agree more, like why do dps warriors have so much healing? (In pvp this is) they can regularly be the top healing below the healers. Warriors survivability should be through mitigation from armor and not healing, while clothies should survive by avoiding getting hit. It’s not only warriors that’s the problem it’s most classes this is just an example. Reduce self healing and make armor great again.
Remember when you had to carefully CC mobs before every single pull in dungeons? "Rogue saps that, mage sheeps that other one" and if you broke it, all went to hell. The fun times. ;) (note: I'm not sarcastic, I was young and played since late vanilla, so I lived through BC dungeons and later WOTKL before I stopped playing). The downside was that in some dungeons you *needed* certain classes for the CC or some pulls were challenging. Having briefly returned to the game and leveling up through mainly dungeons, most are just massive AoE pulls where AoE happy classes shine (by a huge margin). And because most if not all classes have AoE mechanisms these days, tanks just run and pull from 1 to N (where N can be 1/2 the dungeon...) groups, put them all together in one spot, and let the AoE gods obliterate it all. It's fun the first 10 times only.
Blizz's problem isn't survivability but how they design encounters. They constantly design shit for the top 0.5%, which they admit in this blue post. No one wants these changes. Oh no tanks are having fun, fuck em. Ya know how you fix it? Keep tanks how they are, make more, slow dealing AoE damage that actually affects dps in a way that doesn't one shot them. No healer wants to just constantly babysit the tank, which is exactly what they're moving toward. Players are gonna have a lot of fun sitting in queue for hours because tanks aren't gonna play the game anymore.
As a healer, tanks these days are annoying. They deff do not need a healer so you are left smiting or whatever dmg you can and dis not sign up for that. The way they run in front of everybody is also kinda annoying but that is because knows he will just pop 1 skill and gg. As a healer you are just a fast dungeon queue for tanks now
they will forget about tunning these changes on death strike for UHDKs and FrostDKs and the class will be once again garbage for another expansion in a row
boosting passive defs and nerfing active spell is kinda cringe. the gap between a good tank and a bad one will just get smaller. also they did a very similar change before shadowlands if i remember correctly and s1 tank meta was to kite on higher keys because tanks couldnt live. its nice they say that tanks shouldnt have to kite but i will not trust it until i see it
@Supatease Just some food for thought.. on the surface this seems great. But alot of the healers in PVP ive talked to, say its not fun to heal because of low game IQ (lining, not using defensives etc) and unhealable damage early on into damp. Im not a healer but I wonder if making dps die easier will make this worse?
Yeah look at locks. They are tanks, healers and dps...but for tanks idk I've loved the fact I can solo m+6 bc I'm able to get crest alone when I want lol
Not really, prot warrior got buff in terms of dps: Protection (warrior) Rend damage is no longer reduced by 20% in PvP combat. Shield Slam damage is no longer reduced by 20% in PvP combat. Battering Ram’s effect is no longer decreased by 50% in PvP combat So lets get wotlk vibes.
@@jimbo__exe Nah now they're gonna see that they are not inmortal anymore and prob 99% of them are gonna quit bc they're just bad pvpers that can't deal with real specs 🤣
Tank population about to take a dive. Cool, I guess I'll go DPS this time. Edit: about 8 people that main tanks said they will switch to DPS in Season 1. Sweet
@@memofreire Thats a negative, in bgs the system will always pair at least 1 tank on both sides if any tanks Queue up. Most of my bgs have at least 1 tank in them.
Were all these changes tested? They nerfed healers, tanks and buffed dps defensive capability. Idk about you guys but how experienced are these new gen devs running wow now a days?
If they want tanks to feel more like they used to and tanks relying on healers then they need to make armor significant again and defensives stay strong. And they should absolutely not nerf BDK because its been able to do what it does since wrath and even more in Cata. If they want BDK to not be what it is, then change DK tanking back to Frost, its simple. Its better theme wise anyways. Blood was more interesting as a dps.
Using the hero talents could have been a perfect way for frost to be able to tank or dps, and same with blood. but nah that's too complicated for blizz.
prot warrior healing suck mans and they suck against magic.... yeah we got shield reflect, but not crazy healing like vdh and bdk. also warrior have no utility.
great content as always! but I dont think its enough, its a good start, but there is so much more to be done! and for pvp they can increase or decrease dmg taken in pvp scenarios to balance out stuff
Don't nerf tanks because the very best tanks and the very best groups can do content without healers. This would be an extreme over correction. Average tanks and average groups absolutely need healers and need tanks that can cover for themselves.
cant tell me blizzard dont send you all this info lmao but as a pvper main when mythic plus first dropped i love i fell inlove because ive always loved lore of wow and the small storying telling that happen in raids and dungeons and the mount they give makes it all the sweeter and unlike pvp its so easy to rank high dont even gotta try once you got the gear and talents right but yea im so tired of blood dks brew masters vengeance and guardian tanks they can literally in skirms kill two dps and ima duelist and elite player it use to be tanks live long but eventually die but now they just dont and do crazy damage so good job blizz taking tanks down now only if we can take the tankyness out of demon hunter and warlocks
@@memofreireI play blood dk when i tank and I disagree with him. The wow playbase largely have no idea what they are talking about or doing when it comes to designing the game. Lots of cataclysms changes came from people bitching in wrath and no all of a sudden the playbase forgets they got what they asked for and just blame blizzard while slurping on wraths slong.
@@endofexistence2149 well before cataclysm i would say that tank specs could be something on pvp like, real specs and not just pve modifiers and stats xploiting, but past thats it's just no, sorry if you played that man but it's just true. And seeing the little Blizzard care about pvp they will not rework tanks to work on pvp... But maybe this changes could accomplished something i dont know, we have to wait to see.
i miss the days when tanks were tanks, and didnt heal as much as healers same withj DPS there so much self heal its almost pointless for heal;ers
Overall both healing AND incomming dmg needs to be toned way way way down To make the pace of the game feel like its not a huge button mash to swing bars up and down. If they can accomplish that theyll bring back a more traditional feel and win the crowd.
Blizz: Warriors were a solid B tier, how can we make them F Tier
Yep
lol yes
this has honestly been the biggest underlying insidious thing hurting this game since BFA
seeing them start to work on changing this is actually incredible. most important expansion feature lol
This is huge (positive). I've been advocating for this since 2 years
Greatest change in a while. Tanks are mad, Healers are happy and DPS is clueless like usual.
Holy shit I just heard this guys voice without first looking and thought Tyler, The Creator was explaining WoW to me :D
This comment sounds like a 2nd account supatease😅
@@xeliha1880I had kids in COD tell me I sound like snoop dog lmfao. I couldn’t sound more different
Yo I cant stop hearing him as Tyler now lol
Sooo true
Appreciate you, Supatease, and your skill at reading aloud at such a high speed. You do this, and add insight at the same time about as quickly as I'd read the notes myself!
Edit: who am I kidding, it's even faster lol.
I have a great idea remove self healing and buff healers so they can heal like they used too. Nerf healer dps.
Couldn’t agree more, like why do dps warriors have so much healing? (In pvp this is) they can regularly be the top healing below the healers. Warriors survivability should be through mitigation from armor and not healing, while clothies should survive by avoiding getting hit. It’s not only warriors that’s the problem it’s most classes this is just an example.
Reduce self healing and make armor great again.
Couldn’t agree more, like why do dps warriors have so much healing? (In pvp this is) they can regularly be the top healing below the healers. Warriors survivability should be through mitigation from armor and not healing, while clothies should survive by avoiding getting hit. It’s not only warriors that’s the problem it’s most classes this is just an example.
Reduce self healing and make armor great again.
Remember when you had to carefully CC mobs before every single pull in dungeons? "Rogue saps that, mage sheeps that other one" and if you broke it, all went to hell. The fun times. ;) (note: I'm not sarcastic, I was young and played since late vanilla, so I lived through BC dungeons and later WOTKL before I stopped playing). The downside was that in some dungeons you *needed* certain classes for the CC or some pulls were challenging. Having briefly returned to the game and leveling up through mainly dungeons, most are just massive AoE pulls where AoE happy classes shine (by a huge margin). And because most if not all classes have AoE mechanisms these days, tanks just run and pull from 1 to N (where N can be 1/2 the dungeon...) groups, put them all together in one spot, and let the AoE gods obliterate it all. It's fun the first 10 times only.
Yeah, Shattered halls as a fresh 70 in BC had these 6 mob packs which required the CC. Now its a slug fest and cc is just a gimmick
They nerfed the prot pally hard... The word of glory increase was crap in comparison to the rest
These are great changes
Blizz's problem isn't survivability but how they design encounters. They constantly design shit for the top 0.5%, which they admit in this blue post. No one wants these changes. Oh no tanks are having fun, fuck em.
Ya know how you fix it? Keep tanks how they are, make more, slow dealing AoE damage that actually affects dps in a way that doesn't one shot them. No healer wants to just constantly babysit the tank, which is exactly what they're moving toward.
Players are gonna have a lot of fun sitting in queue for hours because tanks aren't gonna play the game anymore.
As a healer, tanks these days are annoying. They deff do not need a healer so you are left smiting or whatever dmg you can and dis not sign up for that. The way they run in front of everybody is also kinda annoying but that is because knows he will just pop 1 skill and gg. As a healer you are just a fast dungeon queue for tanks now
Tank self healing and sustain has been super out of control for ages
Need pvp modifiers for Enhancement: Sundering and Crash lightning. Build stormstrike and chain+crash lightning cleave.
they will forget about tunning these changes on death strike for UHDKs and FrostDKs and the class will be once again garbage for another expansion in a row
Deathstrike is so bad in DF legit zero healing lol
boosting passive defs and nerfing active spell is kinda cringe. the gap between a good tank and a bad one will just get smaller. also they did a very similar change before shadowlands if i remember correctly and s1 tank meta was to kite on higher keys because tanks couldnt live. its nice they say that tanks shouldnt have to kite but i will not trust it until i see it
I think def stance from arms warrior has different values than prot warriors in general. So it might be only a change to prot warriors
@Supatease Just some food for thought.. on the surface this seems great. But alot of the healers in PVP ive talked to, say its not fun to heal because of low game IQ (lining, not using defensives etc) and unhealable damage early on into damp. Im not a healer but I wonder if making dps die easier will make this worse?
Self sustain is out of wack in the tww. And I play dps.
Wheres the review on the full list of tuning?
Like and comment just because Supa just read us ALL the patchnote! What a champ!
Do these changes also affect other non tank specs ?
Yeah look at locks. They are tanks, healers and dps...but for tanks idk I've loved the fact I can solo m+6 bc I'm able to get crest alone when I want lol
feels bad to be a demon hunter LOL
10 million HP season 1 nice
Healers got trivialized when groups were running high-end keys with all dps and no healer
Fat W from Blizzard. Tanks needed a nerf. They completely ruin wpvp.
Well played Blizzard, Butchering the shit out of the BDK. Ripping of his personality completly.
Yikes, as a RBG guardian main this is a lot to take in. Hopefully I can still run flags haha.
When it takes 5 DPS to kill a guardian druid something needs to change
@nathanbell6962 it doesn't in RBGs, we get a stacking debuff.
Haha time to one shot tanks in my shaman lol haha
@jesuscollazo4303 very true, but the tank on your team will also be getting 1 shot so....
tank in pvp is cringe, i hope its ultra nerfed
This is going to demotivate people queeing tank on pvp so great i think, less mfs ruining the game 😇
Not really, prot warrior got buff in terms of dps:
Protection (warrior)
Rend damage is no longer reduced by 20% in PvP combat.
Shield Slam damage is no longer reduced by 20% in PvP combat.
Battering Ram’s effect is no longer decreased by 50% in PvP combat
So lets get wotlk vibes.
@@jimbo__exe Nah now they're gonna see that they are not inmortal anymore and prob 99% of them are gonna quit bc they're just bad pvpers that can't deal with real specs 🤣
@@memofreire it’s ok bro i don’t want to be immortal, it’s not fun; i like the cc on tanks can bring, actually i was building up round cc and damage 😊
Tank population about to take a dive. Cool, I guess I'll go DPS this time.
Edit: about 8 people that main tanks said they will switch to DPS in Season 1. Sweet
Nobody cares, pve is for nabs
tank changes xD who cares🤷♂
90% of the people who play the game.............
@@strugl3snugle245 this is a pvp channel so not our 90% bro
@@memofreiresolo rbgs will be a thing bro
@@viewtifullyvon6465 so? Bgs plays without tanks like 90% of the time
@@memofreire Thats a negative, in bgs the system will always pair at least 1 tank on both sides if any tanks Queue up. Most of my bgs have at least 1 tank in them.
Were all these changes tested? They nerfed healers, tanks and buffed dps defensive capability. Idk about you guys but how experienced are these new gen devs running wow now a days?
About time 😊
If they want tanks to feel more like they used to and tanks relying on healers then they need to make armor significant again and defensives stay strong. And they should absolutely not nerf BDK because its been able to do what it does since wrath and even more in Cata. If they want BDK to not be what it is, then change DK tanking back to Frost, its simple. Its better theme wise anyways. Blood was more interesting as a dps.
Using the hero talents could have been a perfect way for frost to be able to tank or dps, and same with blood. but nah that's too complicated for blizz.
prot warrior healing suck mans and they suck against magic.... yeah we got shield reflect, but not crazy healing like vdh and bdk. also warrior have no utility.
oh wow tankchanges so cool
I’m convinced we will eventually have npc healers
lmfao thatd be sick tbh
like if two teams had two theoretically perfectly even NPC healers idk
would b cool
That would fix solo shuffle q times
great content as always! but I dont think its enough, its a good start, but there is so much more to be done! and for pvp they can increase or decrease dmg taken in pvp scenarios to balance out stuff
Don't nerf tanks because the very best tanks and the very best groups can do content without healers. This would be an extreme over correction. Average tanks and average groups absolutely need healers and need tanks that can cover for themselves.
Bear will be fine with these changes imo
When was bear fine ever ?😂
@@TheDivisionHUB Bear is the number 1 tank in PVP of all types, Bear is great for raids, who really cares about dungeons.
@@endofexistence2149 well I would say many.
Ww monk mid, gets 8% nerf lol wtf
How is this “last minute”? When the expansion is month away
nice meme
🤡
@@BundyBro_ Because in development time a month is like a blink, its really not that far away at all.
Go ahead Blizzard, screw over solo players!
No one cares about solo players in an mmo
@@lukesterrenburg110 I was about to say the same thing, go play Skyrim or Elden Ring if you wanna be a solo badass.
I don’t know why I thought there would be any priest update
I dont know why you thought a post about tanks would include priest?
@@endofexistence2149the video title said CLASS not tank
cant tell me blizzard dont send you all this info lmao but as a pvper main when mythic plus first dropped i love i fell inlove because ive always loved lore of wow and the small storying telling that happen in raids and dungeons and the mount they give makes it all the sweeter and unlike pvp its so easy to rank high dont even gotta try once you got the gear and talents right but yea im so tired of blood dks brew masters vengeance and guardian tanks they can literally in skirms kill two dps and ima duelist and elite player it use to be tanks live long but eventually die but now they just dont and do crazy damage so good job blizz taking tanks down now only if we can take the tankyness out of demon hunter and warlocks
So guardian druid just got wrecked. Back to getting one shot by magic attacks.
crowd control is 2 high lol
The game is so trash lol they have no clue what they doing
Your IQ will make you survive 2 more years maximum
found the blood dk
@@memofreireI play blood dk when i tank and I disagree with him. The wow playbase largely have no idea what they are talking about or doing when it comes to designing the game. Lots of cataclysms changes came from people bitching in wrath and no all of a sudden the playbase forgets they got what they asked for and just blame blizzard while slurping on wraths slong.
@@endofexistence2149 well before cataclysm i would say that tank specs could be something on pvp like, real specs and not just pve modifiers and stats xploiting, but past thats it's just no, sorry if you played that man but it's just true. And seeing the little Blizzard care about pvp they will not rework tanks to work on pvp... But maybe this changes could accomplished something i dont know, we have to wait to see.
Click bite, no changes at all, who cares about tanks
true, but this will demotivate tanks on pvp so is a win win
It's over a month until TWW releases. tf are you on about
🤡
Pray for huge ele and enh nerfs 🙏
ele gets shamanism its goin s tier
Wtf?!
Actuall ele and enh shaman need buffs!
It’s time for Shamans to shine ✨. Nerf Mages and DHs
fun detected incoming fun nerf beep boop bop.