StarCraft 2: SICK GAME - Has Dark SOLVED ZvT Late Game? (ByuN vs Dark)
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- The Terran versus Zerg match up in StarCraft 2 seems to be Terran favoured in the late game. In this match of Dark versus ByuN, Dark (Zerg) decides to try out a Mass Brood Lord micro trick versus ByuN (Terran).
Dark's Swarm Hosts vs Maru: • StarCraft 2: Dark's SW...
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StarCraft 2 is a military science fiction real-time strategy video game developed and released by Blizzard Entertainment.
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3:01 Byun says : i want to kill you
Dark : i think that i lose this game (he mis-typed the word)
34:50 Byun : "just so funny."
I dont think,because byun end with "?"
Wait, are you korean? Why korean "i want to kill you" end with a "?"
@@jfc2431 He didn't really want to kill him, as a joke
for example
A : (A tease B)
B : i want to kill you!!!
similary situation.
exactly translation is
"you want to die ?" maybe🥰
3:04 translates better to:
Byun: (you) wanna die?
Dark: I lost~
'you wanna be a dead meat?'
'im a loser lmao'
kinda like this
Imagine being that one brooding being pulled back thinking you'll be promoted to a zergling, or even better a broodlord. But then you witness everyone start shooting you as a sacrifice for more broodlings.
I think that's actually very lore accurate. Abathur would approve.
@@csmlouis I think in the lore there's not really such a thing as "being that one broodling". The hive mind controls everything and individual zerg units have no individual minds. So any broodling being pulled back to be a sacrifice would already know exactly what is going to happen and why, because it is part of the hive mind that made that decision.
@@wanderhillen2435 r/whoosh
@@wanderhillen2435 To be 'That Guy', Zerg do in fact all have their own minds and the ability to control their own actions. They follow the hive mind's directions, but do so in their own ways. If the controlling mind is destroyed or lost, then they will revert to being simple instinctual lifeforms. Really it's more that they do not have full intelligence without the hive mind, rather than they lack individual minds.
@@wanderhillen2435 this, they're more like cells in a body. If your Baneling refuses to explode well... that's cancer!
Then again, "haha poor innocent broodling that's terrible!"
Lowko: Brood lords have 10 attack range but thors have 11. Thors outrange brood lords now.
Dark: Let me redefine attack range.
my theory is that the c in data-c reads like sea, thus underwater, and the full name must have come from a derivation from data lake, which is where you store a lot of data. but sea sounds cooler
Nice one ;D
@@Boold198891 This is what I thought immediately before I even read the title of the map. a "sea of data".
I really like this interpretation!! Previously, I hadn’t really thought about the name at all, it just sounded cool.
Now I have the image of a moon covered in ancient Protoss data lakes that are overseen by Purifiers. I love the image of them walking around underwater, their armor coated in algaes and seaweed and mollusks. 💕 And I would be really interested in seeing artistic representations of what underwater Protoss infrastructure might look like!
This.
My two cents: when casters say that the game is played "on data-c", it sounds like "under the sea".
Yoo same
Not at all for what it's worth maybe it's your sub conscious because data c is underwater
Lowko saying "on Data-C" woulds a lot like Sebastian saying "under the sea".
That really was one of the most amazing developments we have seen in this matchup in a very long time. I wonder if Serral and Reynor are going to start adopting similar strategies.
10 days ago lowko cast a Reynor vs Maru game where Reynor went mass brood. He did this strat at 38:35 in that video and a few other times. I thought it was amazing but lowko didn't catch it.
Being broodlords are slow. Seems best to attack locations they are not at.
@@jasonlynch282 doesn't change it, how you gonna kill 35 broods with that stat? Don't forget about the infestors spread around the map, and some lings.
@@jasonlynch282 literally what happened this video. byun attack the locations they are not at .... killed the 4 base on the left. Then there's nothing left but to attack them headon. You cant avoid them forever
@@Frzned9x Not to mention, Dark had more than enough resources to rebuild all his structures in the bases that were mined out of resources a long time ago.
FINALLY a pro zerg does the sacrificial broodling thing !!!!! This made my day. Incredibly hard to execute though, constant broodspawning, fungals, transfusions, parasitibombs and clouds... how many hands indeed.
Dark: "what if Swarmhosts could fly and didn't suck"
Byun: "haha wat u mean?"
Dark: :)
how i always felt broodlord should have been, and bc+ravens would kill this hard ^^
Chat at 3:00
Byun: Do you want to die?
Dark: I’m sorry
Yes, the order of ID is correct; not sure why byun said that
He said it because he attacked his proxy
What did he say with the broodling train?
@@logion567 If you mean 34:52 byun was saying "This is so much fun" but can't tell for sure if he was being sarcastic, or if he was genuinely amused by the situation. judging by his last ㅎ before gg however, I think he was pretty amused.
I’m no pro, but I can’t figure out why he went out so far with drones either. Maybe the rines would overwhelm him with just 2 queens? Idk
@@NeedMoreKimchi id be amused too if I were on the receiving end of such a genius broodlord play... I'm sure he was just sitting there for the last 5min just laughing and scratching his head thinking "lol that's new, wait how do I counter this now?"... he was pretty stationary for a few min, I'm sure he was confused yet smiling at what just happened... xD
"On Data-C" sounds like "under the sea", especially when said with Sebastian's voice from The Little Mermaid.
Oh yes! You actually did cast this game the day after I had suggested! Thank you for listening to your viewers
Talk and thou sou be listened 🗿
In your last Reynor vs Maru match 10 days ago Reynor tried this strat at 38:35 but he only attacked his broodlings a couple times. I knew it had promise. I think changelings would also make excellent targets
Changelings require some energy though. Creep tumors are an initial energy investment and then technically unlimited after that
That lonesome valkyrie/liberator was having the time of her life....blasting water balloons at them broodlords and vipers.
34:30 Finally someone did this! I always theorized how you could stream an endless amount of broodlings at your opponent from a safe distance if you just kept attacking your own broodlings or creep tumors.
So excited to see players master this!
Yeah, I’ve often had the same thought when watching late game zerg pro games. I’ve never had the skill to test whether it actually works. I’m about to watch this video and look forward to seeing how it pans out.
It's extremely micro-heavy because the broods don't automatically march towards the enemy so you have to control them while keeping a few back that you can switch back to broods and attack with. That, and you need an insane # of broodlords, along with good control w both the infestor and viper.
It's very micro heavy, mostly because Broodlings have very short lifespan. So you need to keep switching between Broodlords and Broodlings all the time. And you are basically screen locked to that one location on the map. If you look away and all your Broodlings in range die, then you have to start again by finding something else to attack to spawn the first wave again.
I mean, it's not too bad to sacrifice 1 creep tumor or one Zergling, but this strategy forces you to keep sending waves manually in a given rhytm. And the player needs to do other things in between the waves as well.
lol, Go on abuse it. Bliz gonna nerf BL somewhere in future.
@@ShadowTheHedgehogCZ can't you use changelings to start the wave?
32:30 - that was a perfect example of both territories meeting
9:24 The map is called Data-C because of the little lore the creator made for it:
"The interplanetary surface scanner has found great amounts of resources on planet 37/ data-set C. The catch: It's at the bottom of an ocean under the sea."
I think this game will change how Zergs play with Broodlords and I love it - might get nerved, though.
oh god they better not. i've been using them like this the whole time. its literally the only other zerg unit worth a damn outside of queens.
2 words to counter this: mass voidrays
I don't think this will get nerfed. In order for this to be effective, you have to have an absolutely absurd number of Brood Lords, and if Terran gets enough BCs, they could easily take them out.
I too dont think it will get nerfed. This is only good if enemy is mostly ground units.
Broodlords take a long time to produce, you would just stop making them if your enemy is massing air units
My mind is blown because I think that pause might have tipped Dark off to Byun's proxy. The Overlord didn't head in that direction until after the game was unpaused; what if Dark saw Byun spamming his hotkeys and thought "wait a minute, what two things would Byun hotkeying so rapidly this early in the game?" to which the obvious answer is "two proxied Barracks".
The one who was spamming hotkeys was Dark, so your theory is false :)
bruh do you even play starcraft? Have you ever seen a pro player play starcraft in the first person?
@@colts8146 Yes
@@DrakeyC then you would know literally every player spams their hotkeys all the time. The barracks in a proxy rax doesnt go on the map any sooner. Not to mention ovi scouting patterns get changed mid path quite frequently.
Figured out the map name. According to liquipedia Data - C comes from how the planet was categorizes. “The interplanetary surfaced e scanner has found a great amount of resources on on planet 37/data set C…”
Chat at 34:57 saying " This is just very fun"
That broodling spam felt a bit unfair, maybe Byun should have tried some drops on the bases instead of trying to engage those broods.
dark will always be one of my favorite players, his play is always incredibly solid and i love some of the strats that he comes up with.
i do LOVE this kind of terran style, on the defensive part, putting up plana everywhere and turrents and tank etc.. it makes terran feel like TERRAN! from the lore. would like more focus on having less ghost and more battlecruisers late game and especially superlate game.
i honestly think the emp should be removed from the ghost and given to the battlecruiser; then it would have to make the choise whether to yamato or emp and it would make battlecruisers a must to have at least a few off in super late game, which would be really cool.
ghost are honestly too good at too many things as it is and counter too many units; FAR more than any other spellcaster, they basically make every other spellcaster of Terran absolete bc it is just too good at everything already- and that makes me sad, i want to see armies with ravens and battlecruisers mixed in there ^^
would love to see the Zerg swarm host redesigned as well; free units can't be balanced in a proper way so it would be better to make it a spellcaster so it's locust are dependent on energy instead of free and so that they can actually created a SWARM! with a handful of them, so we again don't see insane masses of them but more like an addition to the armies^^
I too love the underwater maps. When banelings explode it produces a small green bubbles
Imagine only launching with half the brood lords in the first volley. Then you immediately target the rear-most broodling and the other half launch their broodlings. By setting up a staggered launch within the control group, you can effectively launch volleys twice as fast, meaning you don't have to keep pulling groups back to target.
That was one of the greatest long games I've seen recently, and my opinion of Dark has definitely improved.
He's still not as fun as Life or Reynor, but he's definitely competing with Serral when it comes to skill.
God I miss Life and "Life's Lings" shame there was match fixing involved
34:58-41:45 Can we take a moment to appreciate as well the fact Dark managed to bleed out Byun close to zero in both minerals and gases, despite Byun having 12k for minerals and 4k for gases in the bank at one in the late game?
Abusing free units, what a legend.
I imagine a neural on a worker to get the other races units and upgrades would be how you can max out that upgrade line
Does that actually work?
@@aeoniangears372 For Protoss I know it's easier. With Terran you have to keep on Neuraling the SCV to finish the Command Centre. It does work, it just takes a lot of time, and a lot of money. For that reason it's usually not done!
@lowko after the drone pull byun said essentially "you coming back?" Or maybe better as "gonna try again?"
"You win" was the reply (i think. Subjects are implied. I suppose he could have meant 'no i already won')
I was so focused on translating that i saw the red still in the bottom... but they were flying away.
He DEFINITELY said "no I already won"
Kinda reminds me of swarmhosts but more efficient because of the attack cool down
11:30 "it's at the bottom of the ocean *under the sea*"
"On data-c" sounds like "unda da sea" like the song from Disney's "The Little mermaid" .
Feel like a couple options to break this is possible sacrifice some thors to build 6 BC's to Yamato and jump on top of the broodlords.
Sacrifice some thors, for some liberators attacking in a highly spaced out concave. (To reduce amount of fungals and parasitic bombs splash damaging them.
Cheapest and probably most effective is a ghost or ghosts cloaked all dropping nukes at near the same time. Broodlords are almost utterly immobile when doing the mass broodling micro. Even if they stop and flee. Then the terran is free of the broodlings and can advance and do damage.
not gna jump to balance but am going to point out some problems nonetheless.
BCs get assaulted in a non fun/enticing way by corruptors, so no point, libs get got by corrutors and ghosts cloaked are just as good as uncloaked with 17 overseers, so either they are safe, and too far away to hit a successful nuke, or just get killed.
Wow what a game! No joke, this is my game of the year! So much to say - it was amazing!!!
first of all: thank you for consistently uploading 6 days a week! Favorite caster by far!
Dark pulls off the most exciting strategy we've seen in a long time.
I’m thrilled that you’re still making these, Lowko.
I was actually thinking about this broodlord strat and asked neruo about it one time on his stream a few months ago. Interesting to see it actually work!
Lowko. Chicken Wings. Beer. Time to relax on a Friday!!
According to Liquipedia, the site was first mapped by an automated interplanetary surface scanner, which designated this scan region as 'Data-C' in the folder 'Planet 37'. It's a remote site on a distant world with no name, and you're there to fight over its resources.
@LowkoTV It may be called Data-C because it is a digital (data) sea (c). Or the map maker saved the file under that name and forgot to change it before submitting it in the contest.
My theory as to why the map is named Data C, and the pun there-within is that the map maker is playing on a phrase from the movie, The Little Mermaid. Where in which a crab sings a song called "Under Da Sea" under da sea....date c...supporting evidence: in the map description the maker maker describes it as under the sea. So thats why its hotta under dee water, under data C.
I can't believe after all these years we've come back to infestor brood lord. Just when you thought we'd never return to those dark times, we've returned to those Dark times.
ikr? this happened like 9 years ago and now all of the sudden it's a "new" strat, this was one of the reasons they nerfed infestors (losing upgrades on infested terrans, nerfing instant FG) and broodlords (losing range) in the first place, there's nothing new about this shit.
Also, this was one of the reasons the Terran meta had stay on bio instead of Mech against Zerg, since broodlords are SO slow the bio composition works wonders for this kind of crap.
Who needs infested terrans and instant FG when you have blinding cloud right?
What's next? mass ravens with infinite Auto-turrets? LOL
It's even worse, since with this trick Broods work like Swarm Hosts. Z trading cooldowns for opponent's money.
37:57 The clarification on the efficiency comment was satisfying, since the first thing I thought was that it's clearly efficient in cost-effectiveness.
I thought it would be fun if map makers included some lore to their maps. I know couple have a short description and tie into protoss lore itself but id be interested if for instance this map, how did it become a battle ground, who found it first or discovered everything works normal underwater like it does on the surface etc
that's what fans are for
Byun's first comment: "do you want to die?" (common playful diss in Korea). Don't know what Dark's response was... Byun's comment during broodlord attacks: "This is so much fun"
Wow this is incredibly impressive play from Dark. I feel like I've seen this Broodlord thing done before (I maybe even did it myself 11 years ago), but never any significant results from it. The amount of unit management do do that is crazy. You need like 2-3 groups of brood lords, then also micro-manage the infestors and queens (or corruptors?) at the least as well, but really probably Vipers and other units on top of that.
"what the fuck do I even build" I think that's the first F-bomb I've heard Lowko drop lol
Possible reason for the map name is that a High speed submarine internet cables. Data = internet C = sea
Dark found out how to give broodlings an effective range of 20.
Dark has never gets flustered losing 5 drones is but a flesh wound.
32:05 --> Lowko trying to sound like he didnt saw this game before. haha, its funny :)
I believe "Data-C" is a double entendre referencing the file formatting of Data:C, Data:D, etc. in your library, as you can have multiple drives to store your files. It's also saying "C", as in "Sea", so maybe that's what the name is about.
To make late game less Terrain favored they need to do a couple things which I think would also be fun. Ultralisks, no longer can be sniped. Additionally the space between their legs allows lings to pass through single file.
Second is Nerf Hydra but allow them to be build at a lower tech tier, but at the current tech tier allow them to get an additional upgrade making them what they are now.
Lastly this is the one I can't quite think out but either Lurker, Swarm Host or Nydus needs to be better somehow.
I want changes that will 1)make zerg feel more zerg and 2) get less used units back in the mix.
"nerf hydras" made me firstly think in the way of "hol'up, they already only have 0 health" but then i realised they do also have a million DPS. probably the pre-lair appropriate nerf would be lowering their attack speed to the roaches' level so the roaches become actually more DPS worthy. but OTOH, hydras can shoot air, unlike roaches, and some research like "paralysing spines" which makes hydras deal additional damage (of about +100%) to light units plus some research like "frosting spines" which makes hydras deal additional damage (of about +100%) to armoured units (you only can research one of them so hydras won't suddenly become OP). this way their price would realistically be lowered to that of 75/25 like in roaches but probably with lowering the supply count to 1.
or maybe throwing a "simplified DNA" research instead of all this thing. it just makes hydras pop in couples like zerglings effectively making one hydra cost 50 minerals/25 gas/1 supply. at what cost? lowering HP and damage output of course. 90 → 70 and 12 → 7 is probably the way to do it. they also should become smaller and lose their range upgrade after that.
Lurkers and SHs are completely fine, no need to change anything about them though.
seams like broodlords are broken with Spore Crawler and queens
33:40 Perfect moshpit doesn't exi
Translate said the Buyn at 34:53 said something along the lines of "its just so much fun"
The map is called Data-C because when the caster says that the game takes place „on Data-C“ it sounds like „under da sea“. xD
7:00 banshee teaches drone to fly
C is a homophone for sea, and "data C" is a homophone for Captain Datassey, a naval captain who played a huge role in winning the first Indochina War, and claimed to see an aquatic alien life form on one of his missions.
That looked really real, but you knew it couldn't be true didn't you? That's why it's good to think about what you're watching on TV, and ask questions, kind of like you just did. A message from Concerned Children's Advertisers.
Lowko. It's Data-C. C spoken as *sea*.
There's your underwater element. A "Data sea".
Serral watching Darks broodling mirco thinking "i need a forth hand"
3:02 - According to google translate:
Byun: Wanna go back?
Dark: I won
This was an amazing game, thank you for casting it :D
1:16 I thing the 414 is a lidel Joke Lowko. THE 414 NOT FOUND
5:30 "this is something we would see in 2010.." sick burn, bro!! (*helion/flame pun intended!*) 🤣
Data-c for me always sounded like data-sea which can be in reference to data center which is under a sea. Which in fact would be a logical solution to a huge computing building if we would have sufficiently advanced technology to construct buildings like this. This is because all that sea water would act as a coolant for all the calculations which we would do in a datacenter. Thus, naming data-c.
It also might mean that there is so much data here that it is almost like a sea. A sea of data if you will!
When you start to hear „data-sea”
This shit just hits different
that broodlings upon broodlings spam is the endgame of all endgames, no race can survive that
Favorite game so far this year! I hope to see how Terran gonna counter this strategy soon!
The counter is to complain enough so Zerg gets nerfed again
@@Topbao apparently, if Serral also picks up this strategy and improves even more, Zerg will not be too far from getting nerfed again....
Data-Sea - probably from the phrase "lost in a sea of data" @lowkotv
I'm pretty sure the map is called Data C because a rare alien artifact crashed into one of the planets oceans... which is why they are there fighting in the first place...
Maybe it's like... a unique Protoss floppy disk lol
Someone said it but game of the year for sure (so far) it’s really a feat to have a game with so few recent updates just a few maps and dedicated players to really bring out the strategy in a classic RTS. We’re seeing the flawless dark souls
Min max run of an online multiplayer professional game. Very fun to see thank you lowko!
ohhh Lowko i love your vids! i played SC2 a while back and really thought this game was done. but after watching this game and the one from yesterday with swarm hosts i can say i will definitely install it again! Thanks for the amazing Video
Still strong. Takes usually less than 10 seconds to queue into a game. I still love it after all these years.
@@chrisbien4456 ohhh nice!!!! Where van i find some guides and stuff? I am pretry rusty gor sure 😂
@@filipdjokovic3684 Vibe's bronze to GM series is my favorite. I suggest playing a few practice games against easy AI and practicing macro. Getting a good economy and making a lot of stuff is by far the most important thing at lower levels. Micro and strategy don't matter as much, just make more than your opponent.
Data-C
Data-Sea
Datha-Sea
Dathe-Sea
Down the-Sea
Gotcha, Lowko, all it takes is sleep-deprived European and Hodor reference to get into KillerSmile's head!
Me, not paying attention to how the map name is spelled, hearing Loko ramble about "What does *Data-Sea* have to do with the ocean?" and wondering what he's on about...
But yeah, it's probably as simple as C=sea.
30:07 - aaaaaaah, that's a relief
34:53 from google translate: "just so much fun"
It reads data - C as in data "sea" in english. As in a sea of data, an ocean of data, or a large quanity.
A play on the phrase digital sea, data sea, Data-C. Seems like a layered pun to me
That was literally the coolest thing in SC2 in a legit play method I have ever seen.
34:26 GENIUS!
My guess is, that soon, Terran will modify their late game composition and add something very mobile (speed banshee + marauder (against the spores outside the deathball area of the zerg), maybe), such that when those 30 brood lords are in one place, they can start knocking down stuff on the other side of the map. They have to get that composition right, before they have no more gas income, though. In WOL, there was a reaper upgrade which did tons of damage against buildings. I would love to see that upgrade again, maybe in the fusion core. In WOL, 3-3 reapers with that upgrade could trash whole bases in seconds...
Byun at 15k bank, mining Zerg`s bases: winning so hard.
Byun facing a bunch of suicidal broodlings: `... dude!`
One of the other casters at HomeStory Cup pointed out that if you say "on data-c" as in "where we find ourselves on data-c" it sounds like "on-da-ta-sea" as in "where we find ourselves **under the sea**." This works best if you pronounce "data" da-ta instead of "dayta."
Data-C = un-Da-TA-C has to be a Little Mermaid reference. Just imagine Sebastian saying Data-C
OMG! Starcraft 2 is still evolving. This is plain crazyness. That game was incredible.
I hope this tactic puts an end to the ghost supremacy, this was so much fun to watch!
Dark: Call an ambulance! Call an ambulance!
Broodlings: Exist.
Dark: BUT NOT FOR ME.
my jaw dropped when he started broodling-ing the broodlings and then microing the broodling-linged broodlings
absolute implementation of '입스타'
They said at start "hey lowko will try to translate this" "yeah thats lowko"
2:54
Byun: 뒤질래? -> Do you want to die? [Casual/fun tone, elder to younger. Possibly meaning "are you trying to lose?"]
Dark: 제가져승 -> I'm losing [cute but respectful tone, younger to elder.]
34:55
Byun: 그냥너무재밌네 -> "(That's) Just so much fun" [Casual tone. Possibly meaning he things the broodling distance trick is great"]
The language is casual/compressed compared to "correct" Korean so google translate can’t figure it out. Think chat tok whr u dnt use propr eng
Whaaaaaaaat that broodlord micro is criminal! That is super BROKEN! COME ON!!!
Data sea.. The phrase "oceans of data" has been used, and data "flows" and forms "streams" and can be found in a "data pool". So they just choose a water name less commonly attracted to "data".
Data-C being pronounced as Data-Sea would be my guess for the naming.
If you think about it it's kinda weird broodlings die from being hit by other broodlings, it's like if a cannon ball hit another cannonball but only one is destroyed and the other walks away unscathed.
23:23 that ghost escape
33:42 Biblically accurate broodlords
At 4:30 can you lowko explain a little more about the difference between great and best player ? Not sure which one is the top one XD
Data-C is a word play. We're playing "on Data-C" = "Unda da sea"
yeah i did that during terran match up. using brood spam to let the tank flash each other out. lol it's fun thou.