I don't always agree with Irshad, however I've always respected her. The essence of her talk was that we must have the courage, as a society, to keep the lines of discourse open and not cry 'offended' every time someone says something we don'l like. I'm talking to all the uber PC, SJWs here.
I love this video. Ms. Manji, I first heard of you on PBS in 2007(America at a Crossroad, I believe) after The Trouble with Islam Today came out. The views you expressed on free speech have been highly influencial in my forming my own opinions on the issue. Thank you for your work and speaking despite the threats.
Brilliant! offense is the real cost of having an honest conversation in today world. and honest conversation can create real, deep diversity. Otherwise as she said we're gonna stay at such a useless, superficial level , which can be even more dangerous than having not diversity at all, cuz it covers the existing problems within a society with a fake beautiful layer
When someonesays he is offended, do not repeat it--- PERIOD Islamic hijab was offending atheist??? Why because he failed to enjoy the free show that he is accustomed to. Nuns also cover themselves,I never heard that their appearance offends people. MANJI preaches MORAL COURAGE Why does not she practice it She does not believe in essential elements of Islamic Faith,yet she keeps on reminding people that she is a muslim Any student of comparative religion can confirm that she is nonmuslims Still she keeps on repeating that she is a Muslim because antiislamic jargon coming from someone who claims to be a Muslim has a very high market value.
6:108 "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do." 49:11 "O believers, let not any people scoff at another people who may be better than they; neither let women scoff at women who may be better than themselves. And find not fault with one another, neither revile one another by nicknames. An evil name is ungodliness after belief. And whoso repents not, those -- they are the evildoers."Allah teaches us not to insult anyone, including unbelievers. There is a difference between honest argument and expression as opposed to malicious and hurtful speech. If non Muslims want to use offensive speech, they are free to do so, but Allah expects Muslims to show respect toward all mankind. Allah expects us to even be just and fair to our enemies. 5:8 "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well Acquainted with what you do."
It appears I've been censored on all the Islamic sites I've tried to post coment on. The points made are the following; to help " renovate" (term favored by Tariq Ramadan) the Islamic religion for participation in a modern society I suggested interchange (dialectic) with Existential philosophers. To recognize the violence currently inflicted on both muslims on non by radical Islam. To begin an Islamic "Enlightenment" that would take muslims beyond covering femininity and not eating pork. Leave your tribe and join the moderm world or suffer your own Dark Age. I expanded on these points in my postings to Islamic sites and none got posted. Thankyou.
To counter your mother's argument: Those muslims disposed to do so INTENTIONALLY seek to oppress (and therefore offend) non-muslim cartoonists in their sharia prohibition against depictions of Muhammad. Charlie Hebdo never sought to force muslims to look at their cartoons or sought to make Muslims draw Muhammad. Now who is more deliberately offensive, CH or sharia-adherents?
Her argument would make sense in a theoretical world. But the people who are being "offended" live in a real world called france. Not that long ago, france was doing the exact same thing as Charlie hebdo in the context of colonialism. In a theoretical world, Irshad be like charlie hebdo don't have the privilege to offend others. But again, we live in the real world where the powerful dictates the conversation. Irshad and Dr west are associates of the powerful. Don't get them twisted
If you said the N word you will get a slap on your face and hopefully if you be anti-Semitic, I too don't pull punches when I am offended, I can't change I don't want to change
If someone calls you N word, you have every right to be offended. But if you don't like just any one saying it in any context, even quoting someone else, then you're just being a bitch.
Quite honestly, it was painful to watch this video. Still, I watched it as I thought it would be the right thing to do before expressing my opinion here. The video pretty much sums up the problem with people like Irshaad, Cenk, Reza Aslan and other so-called 'apologists'. They would bring up every isolated incident (in this case, she brings up some opposition to slmudog millionaire movie by an insignificant group that nobody in India seem to be aware of!!) from non-muslim religions and societies in a very condescending way to show that there is intolerance everywhere. However, when it comes to Islam, it is always this kind of tip-toeing and abstract comments with a clear unwillingness to admit the facts and truth.
Not quite sure I fully get what you mean but I will respond according to my best understanding. This is hardly the case at least definitely not with Irshad. She and I totally agree with her admitted that the core of the problem of Islam is Muslims and their own intolerance towards people of another religions as well as within the same religion only with different views,understanding and perceptions. I am pretty sure she would be very happy to admit to that. Muslims are obligated-if they truly care about their religion-to force themselves and encourage others to be more open to diversity and simply accept this reality because trying to make your voice louder is simply and utterly pointless and useless as it won’t solve a thing.
Ahmed Hassan You sound like a honest person. I agree that Irshad is way better than Reza Aslan or Cenk on any given day. The problem I see with Irshad is that she tries to sugarcoat everything - The most example is her effort to interpret 'virgins' as 'rasins'. '. I wish we could just focus on one subject. For example, if you are talking about Islamists, please focus on Islamists. If you are talking about white-racism, focus on white-racism. I just don't see why she has to dilute and mislead audience by bringing up these isolated incidents from Hindu India or Budhists!!
I see. It’s only been a week since I have watched her stuff beginning with the head on head with Mehdi Hassan so I don’t know that much about her though I agree with her so far. Not just as a Muslim but as a human being. What you are describing seems like she is tackling topics in an apologetic sort of way and as we all know apologists are only good at apologizing i.e making silly excuses for real arguments and they are well known for sidestepping and ignoring the actual issue. I don’t know. Maybe she did so plenty of times and I wasn’t paying enough attention so it went past me or I am just not all that competent intellectually :) "You sound like a honest person." Well maybe I am and maybe I’m not :p
+Real Truth matters Or maybe she does bring up a different tangent but she intends to link it to the original topic in the end and you just weren’t patient enough in which case you’re the one who ain’t all that intellectually competent :p Just kidding ;)
+Malcolm X with all respect, you got it all wrong man! both will be remembered and I believe Irshad even more, by the way Irshad doesn't reject Islam, have you read one of her book? Listen to her, listen carefully brother, then make comments!
Red Lion The collective history of your kind has always illustrated a portrait of profanity and violence. Your kind has demonstrated the most extreme violence, suffering and hypocrisy about the denial inflicting violence and suffering.You blame African Americans for your continued and unrelenting shooting them; you blamed Japanese school girls for being turned into ashes by your atomic bomb, you blamed Native Americans for the genocide you inflicted upon them and wen they tried to stop that genocide that you were perpetrating you called them terrorist and savages. Your verbal profanity is merely a reflection of your kinds physical obscenity.
ALSA JOE Irshad will be remembered fondly by the same people who remember Hitler fondly, Irshad will be remembered by the same people who remember slavery fondly, she will be remembered the same way people will remember George Zimmerman, George Wallace and George Armstrong Custer fondly. The very fact you think she is equivalent to Malcolm X shows me you haven't read HIS book.Yes,indeed, I've read her book many times before it's called Uncle Tom's Cabin.
İrshad only talks about herself she is the topic always. İts always her herself her mother, A true muslim doesnt go around telling people lm this lm a muslim on stage and she speaks like she knows it all. But she doesn't, her use of all these big words, she is a true show off about herself she doesn't speak the truth about islam because she has no knowledge she speaks of what suits her. People who truly have faith Allah (God) guides People to the straight path Allah does not need liars like her to speak to people about islam Allah (God) is the one who helps and guides people to the truth to the straight path that he has chosen the path of all the prophets peace be upon them all and peace be to islam and sincere people who Honestly want to learn the truth and find islam Allah(God)
I respect and admire the heck out of this woman!
I don't always agree with Irshad, however I've always respected her. The essence of her talk was that we must have the courage, as a society, to keep the lines of discourse open and not cry 'offended' every time someone says something we don'l like. I'm talking to all the uber PC, SJWs here.
I love this video. Ms. Manji, I first heard of you on PBS in 2007(America at a Crossroad, I believe) after The Trouble with Islam Today came out. The views you expressed on free speech have been highly influencial in my forming my own opinions on the issue. Thank you for your work and speaking despite the threats.
wr have you been Irshad you are so special
This lady is powerful!
Her communication skill is beyond
Why I love this woman so much?
Brilliant! offense is the real cost of having an honest conversation in today world. and honest conversation can create real, deep diversity. Otherwise as she said we're gonna stay at such a useless, superficial level , which can be even more dangerous than having not diversity at all, cuz it covers the existing problems within a society with a fake beautiful layer
When someonesays he is offended, do not repeat it--- PERIOD
Islamic hijab was offending atheist??? Why because he failed to enjoy the free show that he is accustomed to.
Nuns also cover themselves,I never heard that their appearance
offends people.
MANJI preaches MORAL
COURAGE
Why does not she practice it
She does not believe in essential elements of Islamic Faith,yet she keeps on reminding people that she is a muslim
Any student of comparative religion can confirm that she is nonmuslims
Still she keeps on repeating that she is a Muslim because antiislamic jargon coming from someone who claims to be a Muslim has a very high market value.
6:108 "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do." 49:11 "O believers, let not any people scoff at another people who may be better than they; neither let women scoff at women who may be better than themselves. And find not fault with one another, neither revile one another by nicknames. An evil name is ungodliness after belief. And whoso repents not, those -- they are the evildoers."Allah teaches us not to insult anyone, including unbelievers. There is a difference between honest argument and expression as opposed to malicious and hurtful speech. If non Muslims want to use offensive speech, they are free to do so, but Allah expects Muslims to show respect toward all mankind.
Allah expects us to even be just and fair to our enemies. 5:8 "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well Acquainted with what you do."
Joocelyn Gumtang thank you you hit the nail on the head!
It appears I've been censored on all the Islamic sites I've tried to post coment on. The points made are the following; to help " renovate" (term favored by Tariq Ramadan) the Islamic religion for participation in a modern society I suggested interchange (dialectic) with Existential philosophers. To recognize the violence currently inflicted on both muslims on non by radical Islam. To begin an Islamic "Enlightenment" that would take muslims beyond covering femininity and not eating pork. Leave your tribe and join the moderm world or suffer your own Dark Age.
I expanded on these points in my postings to Islamic sites and none got posted. Thankyou.
To counter your mother's argument: Those muslims disposed to do so INTENTIONALLY seek to oppress (and therefore offend) non-muslim cartoonists in their sharia prohibition against depictions of Muhammad. Charlie Hebdo never sought to force muslims to look at their cartoons or sought to make Muslims draw Muhammad. Now who is more deliberately offensive, CH or sharia-adherents?
Her argument would make sense in a theoretical world. But the people who are being "offended" live in a real world called france. Not that long ago, france was doing the exact same thing as Charlie hebdo in the context of colonialism. In a theoretical world, Irshad be like charlie hebdo don't have the privilege to offend others. But again, we live in the real world where the powerful dictates the conversation. Irshad and Dr west are associates of the powerful. Don't get them twisted
If you said the N word you will get a slap on your face and hopefully if you be anti-Semitic, I too don't pull punches when I am offended, I can't change I don't want to change
If someone calls you N word, you have every right to be offended. But if you don't like just any one saying it in any context, even quoting someone else, then you're just being a bitch.
Quite honestly, it was painful to watch this video. Still, I watched it as I thought it would be the right thing to do before expressing my opinion here. The video pretty much sums up the problem with people like Irshaad, Cenk, Reza Aslan and other so-called 'apologists'. They would bring up every isolated incident (in this case, she brings up some opposition to slmudog millionaire movie by an insignificant group that nobody in India seem to be aware of!!) from non-muslim religions and societies in a very condescending way to show that there is intolerance everywhere. However, when it comes to Islam, it is always this kind of tip-toeing and abstract comments with a clear unwillingness to admit the facts and truth.
Not quite sure I fully get what you mean but I will respond according to my best understanding.
This is hardly the case at least definitely not with Irshad. She and I totally agree with her admitted that the core of the problem of Islam is Muslims and their own intolerance towards people of another religions as well as within the same religion only with different views,understanding and perceptions. I am pretty sure she would be very happy to admit to that. Muslims are obligated-if they truly care about their religion-to force themselves and encourage others to be more open to diversity and simply accept this reality because trying to make your voice louder is simply and utterly pointless and useless as it won’t solve a thing.
Ahmed Hassan You sound like a honest person. I agree that Irshad is way better than Reza Aslan or Cenk on any given day. The problem I see with Irshad is that she tries to sugarcoat everything - The most example is her effort to interpret 'virgins' as 'rasins'. '. I wish we could just focus on one subject. For example, if you are talking about Islamists, please focus on Islamists. If you are talking about white-racism, focus on white-racism. I just don't see why she has to dilute and mislead audience by bringing up these isolated incidents from Hindu India or Budhists!!
I see. It’s only been a week since I have watched her stuff beginning with the head on head with Mehdi Hassan so I don’t know that much about her though I agree with her so far. Not just as a Muslim but as a human being. What you are describing seems like she is tackling topics in an apologetic sort of way and as we all know apologists are only good at apologizing i.e making silly excuses for real arguments and they are well known for sidestepping and ignoring the actual issue. I don’t know. Maybe she did so plenty of times and I wasn’t paying enough attention so it went past me or I am just not all that competent intellectually :)
"You sound like a honest person."
Well maybe I am and maybe I’m not :p
+Real Truth matters
Or maybe she does bring up a different tangent but she intends to link it to the original topic in the end and you just weren’t patient enough in which case you’re the one who ain’t all that intellectually competent :p Just kidding ;)
Ahmed Hassan Since you were kidding, I will give you a pass. But you know what I am talking about.
I would like Manji better if she were not such a contortionist
Who will be remembered more,: Irshad Manji for rejecting Islam or Malcolm X for accepting Islam? I'm with Malcolm.
+Malcolm X with all respect, you got it all wrong man! both will be remembered and I believe Irshad even more, by the way Irshad doesn't reject Islam, have you read one of her book? Listen to her, listen carefully brother, then make comments!
+Malcolm X Fuck you
Red Lion The collective history of your kind has always illustrated a portrait of profanity and violence. Your kind has demonstrated the most extreme violence, suffering and hypocrisy about the denial inflicting violence and suffering.You blame African Americans for your continued and unrelenting shooting them; you blamed Japanese school girls for being turned into ashes by your atomic bomb, you blamed Native Americans for the genocide you inflicted upon them and wen they tried to stop that genocide that you were perpetrating you called them terrorist and savages. Your verbal profanity is merely a reflection of your kinds physical obscenity.
Malcolm X My kind? You hate white people. At least im not racist
ALSA JOE Irshad will be remembered fondly by the same people who remember Hitler fondly, Irshad will be remembered by the same people who remember slavery fondly, she will be remembered the same way people will remember George Zimmerman, George Wallace and George Armstrong Custer fondly. The very fact you think she is equivalent to Malcolm X shows me you haven't read HIS book.Yes,indeed, I've read her book many times before it's called Uncle Tom's Cabin.
İrshad only talks about herself she is the topic always. İts always her herself her mother, A true muslim doesnt go around telling people lm this lm a muslim on stage and she speaks like she knows it all. But she doesn't, her use of all these big words, she is a true show off about herself she doesn't speak the truth about islam because she has no knowledge she speaks of what suits her. People who truly have faith Allah (God) guides People to the straight path Allah does not need liars like her to speak to people about islam Allah (God) is the one who helps and guides people to the truth to the straight path that he has chosen the path of all the prophets peace be upon them all and peace be to islam and sincere people who Honestly want to learn the truth and find islam Allah(God)
İ also hope irshad repents to her lies aboutislam stops lying
This woman is pure evil