@andrewgrubb8947 Awesome; thanks for taking a moment to comment, join-in, and letting me know. it feels as though I've painted myself into a corner (youtube wise) with chainsaw videos; it's nice to hear that the other videos are appreciated!! Thanks for taking a moment of your time and letting me know.
This 026 build is really starting to rise above. The saw pulled real good in the wood, especially for an 026. I was wondering what you were going to come up with to test the vibration, beet juice! Love it! You got me considering doing this to an 066. Keep up the good work and keep on sharing your journey whatever your day might bring, it's your story. 👍
@230e4 Thanks for the kind words!! I'm beginning to find some pistons that already have an offset piston pin; that would give the same mechanical advantage if one could find one to fit. Think I've found some 50mm and 45mm ones; wrist pins are wrong, but as an old buddy used to say "that ain't no hill for a climber and ain't no hike for a stepper". I think I can make the 45mm work in a ms250 clamshell... may have to build my own crank... meh...no biggie 😉😎🙄
Another fine update on the 026. Really just enjoy all your videos. I see a lot of what you’re doing and I’ve either done something similar or know I will someday so it’s actually a great reflection on my own life. Lol
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he If it's similar to your life, you're counting your blessings one minute, pulling your hair out the next, then back to counting your blessings!! I spend more time counting my blessings than pulling my hair, so I've got the world by the tail!!!!! Good to hear from ya Farmless; be safe please!!!
@gsilva220 I didn't do anything to raise or lower compression in this test; to be honest, the difference wasn't much; there was SOME theoretical loss, but not too much. This was one of the biggest and easiest gains on the whole build. Thanks for joining-in down here!!!!
Another top notch video. That offset sure didn't disappoint. Quarter horse is substantial and it seems that there isn't a trade off like other mods. Solid gains everywhere. It's too late in the game to be changing dyno directions in my opinion. Backwards graphs and runs make sense to me now. We appreciate your sacrifice. Beat juice wasn't wasted.
@Kevin.L_ That's 1 (actually 2) for "regular" dyno runs. I prefer to run them high to low MOST of the time; they do show a little more HP that way than the reverse way, but as long as it's similar/same each time... That dang sure was/is a good mod and actually fairly easy to do. I think we have a winner with the offset.
@Kevin.L_ I think you're right; my limiting factor, right now on this cylinder, is going to be the bolt heads needing clearance into the transfer bulge; I may not grind the xfers as much on the inside on the next cylinder to allow more room to grind for bolt heads on the outside. Probably can't move but another 20-40 thousandths for a total of 80-100 thou. Seems like every time I try one thing, it makes me want to try three more!!
@Kevin.L_ Whoa whoa whoa!!! I have everything except for the accent! ...and the knowledge. ...and the tools... and the funding ...well, I reckon I'm lacking nearly everything. We do have some big plans though... doing stuff which wasn't intended. It's JUST the start of hay season; I hate to think how much my mind's gonna wander while driving circles and sweating!!
I'd like to see before and after compression test because you're going to have more piston to head clearance, you might have more power still on the table getting the CR back to stock
@AndrewHemstreet Very good point! The compression test difference was very minimal; there was maybe 1# difference. With only .060 offset, the squish only changed ~0.001". You're exactly right though!! Not sure how long you've been following along (first comment that I recollect; sorry if I've forgotten), but this cylinder is compromised with a few very small scratches about the exhaust; another cyl sitting on the bench, but still going to try some more tests on this one.... THIS one is mounted in lathe as we speak to cut the base to narrow squish to previous (due to correcting squish band shape on the piston)!!! Thanks for joining-in and offering your insight; glad you're here!!
@jonathanhensley8685 MEEEE TOOO!!!! I sure didn't mind having to eat a mess of them just to get some juice!! Worst thing is eating a quart or so of them, going to the bathroom the next day and having forgotten about eating the beets; think you're bleeding to death from the inside!! Thanks for stopping in and joining-in!!!
Ok, that vibration test is worth it, numbers aside. I hate having neurologic problems just because I'm running a saw. Just when I think I know everything or have seen everything, you blindside me with something new! Nice work! Keep'em coming!
Nice. Moving the cylinder will affect your timing of the ports slightly as well as the timing of the spark. Any chance of documenting the port opening and closings as well as the change to the spark timing with respect to TDC. What will also change is the compression as the maximum compressed volume won't necessarily be right at crank TDC any longer.
@Alan_Hans__ Right on the money; not sure if you saw the previous chainsaw related video, I attempted to do a good job at explaining exactly that stuff as well as a few more nuances. One of the things neat things is the fact that you now how different intake, exhaust, and transfer opening and closing numbers.
The way you put that offset in seemed easier than I imagined. Nice work! It's also cool that you can put it back to center if you want to undo the mod (or any amount of offset in between) Garage 54 did a video a week ago about offset pistons in a car engine. The engine they were dealing with had offset built into the pistons by moving the wrist pin location. I need to check some chainsaw pistons I have to see if any of them are doing this. I'm really curious about this because I have an Echo cs510 that needed a piston and I was too cheap to get an oem, so I did some figuring and found a piston made for a Zenoah clone that was sized well to work. The only issue was the ring pin locations. I had to turn the piston 180 degrees, so the ring pins didn't go over any ports. It runs fine but if it is offset in the piston, I am not doing it any favors with it reversed.
@jamiewykes8585 What size piston (MM) was that and what did it fit? Offset engines have been around since steam engines and in common engines such as Prius and others. Echo uses an offset pin in a 600 series saw. It ain't that I happen to know all of this, but learned it down here in the comments and google (once I learned the term "Desaxe" down here in the comments. If that clone piston is inexpensive enough, I would consider to buy another and move the locating pin(s). Be careful not to drill TOO deep because of the lack of extra casting at the pin location, but it's fairly easily doable with a good drill press or mill to hold the piston and have a steady way to drill 1/2 way into the land without drifting toward the ring groove. Good stuff!!!
@jamiewykes8585 Just looked and it appears that the 510 is 45mm? that would work in a clamshell ms250... would love to know the model of clone from which it came or a link to the place you bought it. Thanks!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 yes, it is a 45mm and the echo is a clamshell. The piston I used is made for the common chinese 5200 52cc saws. It's been a while since I did this, and I just remembered that I needed to mill inside the piston a little, the gap for the width of the small end of the con rod was too small for me to use the factory wrist pin thrust washers. I'll try putting a link to one of those 5200 pistons in a comment below.
Excellent video! Even liked the beet juice😂. How did you decide on .060? Was it just the max that was practical to acheive? About a quarter of a hp is a pretty good gain, great work!
@kraftzion Thanks!! The .060 was a little ODC (was a nice round number in imperial and also metric (1.5mm); but it was really all that would fit on this saw. Ran out of bolt-head room and couldn't relieve anymore from outside of the transfer bulge as I was already thin on the inside; I actually had to turn the heads of the bolts down some. Also, these small saws don't have much sealing room at the base gasket area; I didn't like the looks of losing any more than @ .060. On the final cyl, I may try for a little more, but there are losses (RPM) involved also. Thanks for being here and joining-in!!
Yeah just a while back those tornadoes were all over the place, north of me a hair south of me a bit and way south of me those folks were getting unreal tornadoes, I have only seen them on video but at the rate were having them this year who knows
@diggindiggenit6540 It wasn't too bad here at my place; it was smallish and/or didn't touch down too much on this river hill; the worse was about 150 yards south of my house; can see its path right thru my timber and pasture; fence is a MESS!! Didn't hit the house or barns; plenty of wind here too though. Lots of trees down!! Oh well, more chainsaw videos I reckon!!
What do you think about building a dyno out of an generator? My idea would be to hold the saw at an high idle rpm then use a potentiometer to add a resistive load to the saw. My dyno graphs would show rpms on the y axis and watts on the x axis. Could this type of graph be helpful with gauging performance mods?
@RobertWorthington-u2s Oh boy, that’s a loaded question. Short answer: yes, it will work! I’m not trying to talk you out of it, but merely pointing out a few “problems” (of which you may have already thought) with the alternator/wattage. If you’re building this for your own information, you can see watts on your graph; you can measure gains. If you were to make videos for here, faceweb, etc…, I think most people are accustomed to seeing HP and Torque. I’m sure that there’s a calculation for HP/RPM/Watts/Torque, but not with merely having watts on one axis and rpm on another. That may not matter to you? I know that I really like to see a torque curve too; sometimes, it is a better place to see a gain. I like my hydraulic one over the water brake, disc brake, or the inertia ones in that I can load the engine to a specific RPM and hold that loaded RPM for a good long time; I can test heating/cooling effects of mods; you should be able to do the exact same thing with an alternator, but will need a fairly decent heat sink submerged in mineral oil or the such; I’ve got an electrical heat sink in a one-gallon paint can full of mineral oil; I think it’s good for 1500 watts for 1 minute; I don’t remember the duty cycle (how long I have to wait before I can put another 1500 watts for another minute). If I were to start over with an alternator, I believe I would still mount the alternator so that it could react on a torque arm; I would prefer (for myself) to read the torque on a reaction arm and forgo the electrical reading. ...that’s just me, though; I prefer mechanical to electrical measurement. I also prefer sledge hammers over micrometers😉 Another big problem (in my humble opinion) will be the tachometer and watt meter; each need to refresh quite a few times per second in order to be repeatable and tolerably accurate. For my dyno, I built a tachometer with a faster refresh rate; the proximity-type for chainsaws are TERRIBLE. I also like the fact that my tachometer is on the driven shaft; I don’t have to hook it to the saw each time; unless you’re using a jack shaft, a tach on the alternator may be troublesome? I have no idea of the refresh rates on watt meters. I have no idea of the alternator capacity needed to hold X-HP; I know the Gal Per Min/Pressure per Horsepower needed for hydraulics, but not electrical load; I was able to choose a hyd pump that would hold 10HP, but be small enough for a 3hp saw to spin-up. I like the idea of an alternator in that a smaller saw should be able to get it spun-up with no load… there’s always a small load on a hydraulic pump as it’s always moving fluid. You may also be able to get away with spinning an alternator faster? My hyd pump is rated for 4800RPM (it shows 2x that due to the fact that there are two hall-effect sensors on the shaft thereby doubling the reading on the tach readout… there are a couple of reasons that I had to/needed to do that); you may be able to use a different driven sprocket; I had to machine a 24 tooth chainsaw sprocket to get the hydraulic pump’s RPM down to a suitable level. I don’t know the max RPM of an alternator before it initiates dynamic disassembly. Again, not trying to poo-poo your thoughts/aspirations; merely pointing out a few obstacles to overcome of which you may or may not have considered. Thanks for joining-in down here!!
@thunder2132 Thank you!! I appreciate you stopping in and especially for joining-in down here in the comments!! First time I remember you commenting here; glad to have ya!!
@fabzacres-blackcat Are you sure about your math??!! I was using my solar powered calculizer in the dark and I came up with dang near 200% if I held it upside down and rounded some numbers a little 😉😎 I did kinda mess up the beet juice a little in that he sun had changed positions quite a bit e by the time I took it apart and got it back together; I had it in the shade both times in consideration of such, but ambient light made the second run a little darker and harder to see the ripples. On one hand, the vibrating ripples did not show as well on the offset; on the other hand, it was plenty light and I was standing right there... it didn't vibrate as bad, but I think the video exaggerated how much better the offset it/was. That's just for full disclosure to someone else wanting to build one.. ain't trying pee on anyone's head and try to tell 'em it's raining.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 well , little things can make big differences and the results of your efforts show a gain - which we all consider as a “win” … I’ve read darn near every 2-stroke article on the inner tube there is and this idear of moving the cylinder forward has crossed my mind, along with many,many other idears however I haven’t actually tried/proved it. Give credit where due - You were able to make more hp and showed the steps involved ( grinding the cases and milling the bolt holes) which is what inquiring minds like to see … I’m all about the straight-goods , if I haven’t actually MADE or BUILT it myself , and therefore possess the Knowledge then I’m not gonna make any definitive claims. Rowdy pipe ? Yah I’ll make the claim of excellent gains cause I built/tested it in the wood Dyno, even sent a rudimentary version to DJ. It seems there are just Too many cock and bull stories, theories and just plain bs from some of these so-called chainsaw “gurus” here on the tube that get parroted / repeated by the “chainsaw cult” - From mix oil to compression apparently only “they” have the secret recipe to enable a performance gain in a 2-stroke engine , the issue is ya just NEVER see a long term test or even ANY tests / work / anything from these yappers - at best ya get 30sec of cookie cutting and that’s all folks - send me your saw and for just $499 …… 😂
@@HayChaffandSawdust1vibration is a valid concern especially for older gents with tendonitis of the elbows and hands. Vibrations can do a number on ya especially during lengthy cutting sessions. Smoothest saw I’ve ever run / own is the 572xp with the 562xp in the hunt
@fabzacres-blackcat I do consider the fact that I'm not a saw builder to actually be an asset; I don't have production numbers or customers wanting a saw that I have to get sent back out; being a curious mechanical minded sort allows me to just keep gnawing at the same ol bone until I get to the marrow; I've had this saw apart so many times that I've had to helicoil bolt holes. I tried a different piston today and dyno and heat tested it; ran less than a 1/2 tank through it, seen what I needed to see, and tore it back down again. Cyl is ready to go back on the lathe and cut the base now (took plenty off of the top of the piston to correct a bad shape... ) I ain't really after compression; I'm after a cleaner burn. I took enough off of the piston to lower compression from 150 to 110... was at 174 before I compromised the cylinder with a minor scratch or two. Almost every builder out there has SOMETHING to offer or a tidbit from which I can learn; but, just like our garden in this wet weather... there's plenty of weeding to do before you get to the fruit!! Even with the great big loss of compression (and a loss of HP), the saw still ran respectable and the piston and muffler looked much better. It's got a D shaped comb chamber, so I'm a little hindered from the onset, but every saw seems to have a little bit of something we can't make how we think we would like it. Always enjoy the banter and the forthright demeanor!!! I've been accused of never having what's on my mind to be kept a secret!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 saw-builder is a word thrown around kinda like tree feller - just about anyone can do it given the right instruction and mindset! Lotsa production builders out there whose main goal is $ and they build accordingly. Cleaner burn 🔥 / better thermal efficiency can be obtained with more compression however there are drawbacks to taking an engine designed with 135psi and jacking it up to 180-220 , simple physics at work here! I like to take what the factory gives ya and enhance THAT rather than try and “force” the saw via machine work into a “set of numbers” unless absolutely needed which seems to be seldom. I guess if you wanted to build clones that’s the way to do it . I could never understand WHY we are going to cut the base on a lathe using a mandrel when simply using a thinner base gasket will accomplish the same thing but that’s just my 2c. I think too many get caught up in trying to “outthink the factory engineers” and their 10s of millions r/d budget - especially when these new stratos charged controlled air leak saws are concerned. The old school straight shot saws like the 0 series STIHL seem to have good potential from my experience however most older used saws from that era are getting kinda long in the tooth and parts are expensive - might not be worth fixing at the price point given. Sometimes it seems we are opening up a can of worms in addition to the frustration of chasing gremlins 😁! For me the built saw has to have 3 things in order to be considered a successful worksaw build : 1) increased cutting speed in the timber of 20-30 % 2) fuel economy similar to stock 3) longevity similar to stock. If it don’t then you ain’t got a worksaw - you have a toy 🧸
@jamesconn7311 Glad you get a kick out of the channel; some can't stand the fact that I can't/won't be serious for 20 minutes straight, but I ain't gunna start pretending to be something I ain't at this late point in my life. With you and others like ya, I'm happy to be among good folks that tolerate my antics.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Yes Sir!! life too short to be serious all the time !! hate to ask again, if my saw is a tad rich which way to turn H screw?? cw or ccw, i cut with it today . some . TIA !! any way to talk by phone ? if not i totally understand . Aint nothin wrong with a litte Bull schitt!!
@jamesconn7311 if it's running a little rich, turn the screw clockerwise (CW) and go Contrary ClockerWise (CCW) to fatten it up. Suggest looking in description and shooting me an email to the address down there.
Nice work! Do you have any idea how different offsets effect the power? I'd assume there's a practical limit where you start running the rod into the case and bottom of the cylinder, but is there an optimum point for power? Like if you keep moving the cylinder incrementally over, does power keep increasing within practical limits or is there a peak and then you start losing power or something else starts getting bad? Do you need to adjust your port timing and spark timing based on the cylinder offset? I'd assume all that changes slightly as you move the cylinder. I just bought myself an MS361 clone kit and some extra cylinders to play with, and I'm adding this to my list of things to try. Probably a winter project.
@JohnSheerin I made a video a week ago of which I am quite proud explaining a good many of the nuances of the offset cylinder. Yes, the timing changed some. I find myself limited in cylinder movement by room for bolt heads against the transfers on the exhaust side; the lower xfers were already ported fairly heavily and relieving more from the outside (for the bolt heads) was sketchy. With another cylinder, I may be able to relieve more from the outside and less from the inside to gain another 0.020" or so. I even chucked the lil' ol' bolts in the lathe and turned down the heads some. Also, another limiting factor will be sealing surface. I believe one will run out of sealing surface or room for bolt heads before one sees a decrease in hp. On the other hand, on the back side of the stroke, it take more inertia from the flywheel to make the compression... I touched on that in the other video too. Thanks for joining-in; glad to hear from ya again!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 LOL - great explanation I was wondering about the width of the sealing surface - that bolt hole expanding 60 thou forward was something else. That was a gutsy mod.
@shakdidagalimal Thanks!! I appreciate you stopping in and expecially for joining-in down here!! I don't recollect seeing you down here in the comments before; really glad to have ya!! It was a little bit of a gutsy mod, but on the other hand, I'm on my 4th cylinder on this saw... I'm getting a pretty good stack of ruined ones. Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug!!
I like watching all the content not just the chainsaws! Really enjoying your channel!
@andrewgrubb8947 Awesome; thanks for taking a moment to comment, join-in, and letting me know. it feels as though I've painted myself into a corner (youtube wise) with chainsaw videos; it's nice to hear that the other videos are appreciated!! Thanks for taking a moment of your time and letting me know.
This 026 build is really starting to rise above. The saw pulled real good in the wood, especially for an 026. I was wondering what you were going to come up with to test the vibration, beet juice! Love it! You got me considering doing this to an 066. Keep up the good work and keep on sharing your journey whatever your day might bring, it's your story. 👍
@230e4 Thanks for the kind words!! I'm beginning to find some pistons that already have an offset piston pin; that would give the same mechanical advantage if one could find one to fit. Think I've found some 50mm and 45mm ones; wrist pins are wrong, but as an old buddy used to say "that ain't no hill for a climber and ain't no hike for a stepper". I think I can make the 45mm work in a ms250 clamshell... may have to build my own crank... meh...no biggie 😉😎🙄
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 😊
Another fine update on the 026. Really just enjoy all your videos. I see a lot of what you’re doing and I’ve either done something similar or know I will someday so it’s actually a great reflection on my own life. Lol
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he If it's similar to your life, you're counting your blessings one minute, pulling your hair out the next, then back to counting your blessings!! I spend more time counting my blessings than pulling my hair, so I've got the world by the tail!!!!! Good to hear from ya Farmless; be safe please!!!
I really like where all this is headed! Good job!
@theironhorse6600 Thank you!! It's more fun than that hole I found in my pants pocket!!!
Excellent results! What did you do to compensate the lower compression ratio? If nothing was done, the results are even more remarkable!
@gsilva220 I didn't do anything to raise or lower compression in this test; to be honest, the difference wasn't much; there was SOME theoretical loss, but not too much. This was one of the biggest and easiest gains on the whole build. Thanks for joining-in down here!!!!
Another top notch video. That offset sure didn't disappoint. Quarter horse is substantial and it seems that there isn't a trade off like other mods. Solid gains everywhere.
It's too late in the game to be changing dyno directions in my opinion. Backwards graphs and runs make sense to me now.
We appreciate your sacrifice. Beat juice wasn't wasted.
@Kevin.L_ That's 1 (actually 2) for "regular" dyno runs. I prefer to run them high to low MOST of the time; they do show a little more HP that way than the reverse way, but as long as it's similar/same each time...
That dang sure was/is a good mod and actually fairly easy to do.
I think we have a winner with the offset.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1You've found a winner. Keep moving that cylinder forward and I'd bet you run out of case before the gains stop.
@Kevin.L_ I think you're right; my limiting factor, right now on this cylinder, is going to be the bolt heads needing clearance into the transfer bulge; I may not grind the xfers as much on the inside on the next cylinder to allow more room to grind for bolt heads on the outside. Probably can't move but another 20-40 thousandths for a total of 80-100 thou. Seems like every time I try one thing, it makes me want to try three more!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Next step will be just start from scratch like 2Stroke Stuffing.
@Kevin.L_ Whoa whoa whoa!!! I have everything except for the accent! ...and the knowledge. ...and the tools... and the funding ...well, I reckon I'm lacking nearly everything. We do have some big plans though... doing stuff which wasn't intended. It's JUST the start of hay season; I hate to think how much my mind's gonna wander while driving circles and sweating!!
Thanks for another video. You always give me something to think about.
@sawnut Glad to stir up the ol' grey matter; sure ain't no fun thinking INSIDE the box, is it??!!
I'd like to see before and after compression test because you're going to have more piston to head clearance, you might have more power still on the table getting the CR back to stock
@AndrewHemstreet Very good point! The compression test difference was very minimal; there was maybe 1# difference. With only .060 offset, the squish only changed ~0.001". You're exactly right though!! Not sure how long you've been following along (first comment that I recollect; sorry if I've forgotten), but this cylinder is compromised with a few very small scratches about the exhaust; another cyl sitting on the bench, but still going to try some more tests on this one.... THIS one is mounted in lathe as we speak to cut the base to narrow squish to previous (due to correcting squish band shape on the piston)!!! Thanks for joining-in and offering your insight; glad you're here!!
Great video!
I love pickled beats.
@jonathanhensley8685 MEEEE TOOO!!!! I sure didn't mind having to eat a mess of them just to get some juice!! Worst thing is eating a quart or so of them, going to the bathroom the next day and having forgotten about eating the beets; think you're bleeding to death from the inside!! Thanks for stopping in and joining-in!!!
Thanks for the shout Brother! Wish I was closer to you, I'd love to come help do some storm cleanup. It's all we've been doing here.
Ok, that vibration test is worth it, numbers aside. I hate having neurologic problems just because I'm running a saw. Just when I think I know everything or have seen everything, you blindside me with something new! Nice work! Keep'em coming!
@gasaxecustomsaws Thanking ME for mentioning YOU??? Hahaha... it's me that's in a debt to your idea. It's slicker than a little puppy's peter!!
@gasaxecustomsaws People like everyone her and I don't seem to even attempt to confine their thinking to some lil ol box, do they??!!
Nice.
Moving the cylinder will affect your timing of the ports slightly as well as the timing of the spark. Any chance of documenting the port opening and closings as well as the change to the spark timing with respect to TDC. What will also change is the compression as the maximum compressed volume won't necessarily be right at crank TDC any longer.
@Alan_Hans__ Right on the money; not sure if you saw the previous chainsaw related video, I attempted to do a good job at explaining exactly that stuff as well as a few more nuances. One of the things neat things is the fact that you now how different intake, exhaust, and transfer opening and closing numbers.
👍👍 good job
@sunbear1973 Thank you and thanks for always taking the time to comment! We're all glad you're here!!
The way you put that offset in seemed easier than I imagined. Nice work! It's also cool that you can put it back to center if you want to undo the mod (or any amount of offset in between)
Garage 54 did a video a week ago about offset pistons in a car engine. The engine they were dealing with had offset built into the pistons by moving the wrist pin location. I need to check some chainsaw pistons I have to see if any of them are doing this. I'm really curious about this because I have an Echo cs510 that needed a piston and I was too cheap to get an oem, so I did some figuring and found a piston made for a Zenoah clone that was sized well to work. The only issue was the ring pin locations. I had to turn the piston 180 degrees, so the ring pins didn't go over any ports. It runs fine but if it is offset in the piston, I am not doing it any favors with it reversed.
@jamiewykes8585 What size piston (MM) was that and what did it fit? Offset engines have been around since steam engines and in common engines such as Prius and others. Echo uses an offset pin in a 600 series saw. It ain't that I happen to know all of this, but learned it down here in the comments and google (once I learned the term "Desaxe" down here in the comments. If that clone piston is inexpensive enough, I would consider to buy another and move the locating pin(s). Be careful not to drill TOO deep because of the lack of extra casting at the pin location, but it's fairly easily doable with a good drill press or mill to hold the piston and have a steady way to drill 1/2 way into the land without drifting toward the ring groove. Good stuff!!!
@jamiewykes8585 Just looked and it appears that the 510 is 45mm? that would work in a clamshell ms250... would love to know the model of clone from which it came or a link to the place you bought it. Thanks!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 yes, it is a 45mm and the echo is a clamshell. The piston I used is made for the common chinese 5200 52cc saws. It's been a while since I did this, and I just remembered that I needed to mill inside the piston a little, the gap for the width of the small end of the con rod was too small for me to use the factory wrist pin thrust washers. I'll try putting a link to one of those 5200 pistons in a comment below.
apparently youtube won't let an ebay link fly. Oh, I remember lightening the 5200 piston to get it down to the same mass as the echo oem too.
@jamiewykes8585 Found 'em Thanks!! Dang 11mm piston pin though; nothin's ever easy!! Got some in my cart though!!
Excellent video! Even liked the beet juice😂. How did you decide on .060? Was it just the max that was practical to acheive? About a quarter of a hp is a pretty good gain, great work!
@kraftzion Thanks!! The .060 was a little ODC (was a nice round number in imperial and also metric (1.5mm); but it was really all that would fit on this saw. Ran out of bolt-head room and couldn't relieve anymore from outside of the transfer bulge as I was already thin on the inside; I actually had to turn the heads of the bolts down some. Also, these small saws don't have much sealing room at the base gasket area; I didn't like the looks of losing any more than @ .060. On the final cyl, I may try for a little more, but there are losses (RPM) involved also. Thanks for being here and joining-in!!
Yeah just a while back those tornadoes were all over the place, north of me a hair south of me a bit and way south of me those folks were getting unreal tornadoes, I have only seen them on video but at the rate were having them this year who knows
@diggindiggenit6540 It wasn't too bad here at my place; it was smallish and/or didn't touch down too much on this river hill; the worse was about 150 yards south of my house; can see its path right thru my timber and pasture; fence is a MESS!! Didn't hit the house or barns; plenty of wind here too though. Lots of trees down!! Oh well, more chainsaw videos I reckon!!
What do you think about building a dyno out of an generator? My idea would be to hold the saw at an high idle rpm then use a potentiometer to add a resistive load to the saw. My dyno graphs would show rpms on the y axis and watts on the x axis. Could this type of graph be helpful with gauging performance mods?
@RobertWorthington-u2s Oh boy, that’s a loaded question. Short answer: yes, it will work! I’m not trying to talk you out of it, but merely pointing out a few “problems” (of which you may have already thought) with the alternator/wattage.
If you’re building this for your own information, you can see watts on your graph; you can measure gains. If you were to make videos for here, faceweb, etc…, I think most people are accustomed to seeing HP and Torque. I’m sure that there’s a calculation for HP/RPM/Watts/Torque, but not with merely having watts on one axis and rpm on another. That may not matter to you? I know that I really like to see a torque curve too; sometimes, it is a better place to see a gain.
I like my hydraulic one over the water brake, disc brake, or the inertia ones in that I can load the engine to a specific RPM and hold that loaded RPM for a good long time; I can test heating/cooling effects of mods; you should be able to do the exact same thing with an alternator, but will need a fairly decent heat sink submerged in mineral oil or the such; I’ve got an electrical heat sink in a one-gallon paint can full of mineral oil; I think it’s good for 1500 watts for 1 minute; I don’t remember the duty cycle (how long I have to wait before I can put another 1500 watts for another minute).
If I were to start over with an alternator, I believe I would still mount the alternator so that it could react on a torque arm; I would prefer (for myself) to read the torque on a reaction arm and forgo the electrical reading. ...that’s just me, though; I prefer mechanical to electrical measurement. I also prefer sledge hammers over micrometers😉
Another big problem (in my humble opinion) will be the tachometer and watt meter; each need to refresh quite a few times per second in order to be repeatable and tolerably accurate. For my dyno, I built a tachometer with a faster refresh rate; the proximity-type for chainsaws are TERRIBLE. I also like the fact that my tachometer is on the driven shaft; I don’t have to hook it to the saw each time; unless you’re using a jack shaft, a tach on the alternator may be troublesome? I have no idea of the refresh rates on watt meters.
I have no idea of the alternator capacity needed to hold X-HP; I know the Gal Per Min/Pressure per Horsepower needed for hydraulics, but not electrical load; I was able to choose a hyd pump that would hold 10HP, but be small enough for a 3hp saw to spin-up. I like the idea of an alternator in that a smaller saw should be able to get it spun-up with no load… there’s always a small load on a hydraulic pump as it’s always moving fluid. You may also be able to get away with spinning an alternator faster? My hyd pump is rated for 4800RPM (it shows 2x that due to the fact that there are two hall-effect sensors on the shaft thereby doubling the reading on the tach readout… there are a couple of reasons that I had to/needed to do that); you may be able to use a different driven sprocket; I had to machine a 24 tooth chainsaw sprocket to get the hydraulic pump’s RPM down to a suitable level. I don’t know the max RPM of an alternator before it initiates dynamic disassembly.
Again, not trying to poo-poo your thoughts/aspirations; merely pointing out a few obstacles to overcome of which you may or may not have considered.
Thanks for joining-in down here!!
Interesting video
@thunder2132 Thank you!! I appreciate you stopping in and especially for joining-in down here in the comments!! First time I remember you commenting here; glad to have ya!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1it is the first video I see of you. And what state are you from?
@thunder2132 Southern portion of Illinois
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 nice man
Beetlejuice tells the tale regarding vibrations … lil shy of 41% gains though 😉
@fabzacres-blackcat Are you sure about your math??!! I was using my solar powered calculizer in the dark and I came up with dang near 200% if I held it upside down and rounded some numbers a little 😉😎 I did kinda mess up the beet juice a little in that he sun had changed positions quite a bit e by the time I took it apart and got it back together; I had it in the shade both times in consideration of such, but ambient light made the second run a little darker and harder to see the ripples. On one hand, the vibrating ripples did not show as well on the offset; on the other hand, it was plenty light and I was standing right there... it didn't vibrate as bad, but I think the video exaggerated how much better the offset it/was. That's just for full disclosure to someone else wanting to build one.. ain't trying pee on anyone's head and try to tell 'em it's raining.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 well , little things can make big differences and the results of your efforts show a gain - which we all consider as a “win” … I’ve read darn near every 2-stroke article on the inner tube there is and this idear of moving the cylinder forward has crossed my mind, along with many,many other idears however I haven’t actually tried/proved it. Give credit where due - You were able to make more hp and showed the steps involved ( grinding the cases and milling the bolt holes) which is what inquiring minds like to see … I’m all about the straight-goods , if I haven’t actually MADE or BUILT it myself , and therefore possess the Knowledge then I’m not gonna make any definitive claims. Rowdy pipe ? Yah I’ll make the claim of excellent gains cause I built/tested it in the wood Dyno, even sent a rudimentary version to DJ. It seems there are just Too many cock and bull stories, theories and just plain bs from some of these so-called chainsaw “gurus” here on the tube that get parroted / repeated by the “chainsaw cult” - From mix oil to compression apparently only “they” have the secret recipe to enable a performance gain in a 2-stroke engine , the issue is ya just NEVER see a long term test or even ANY tests / work / anything from these yappers - at best ya get 30sec of cookie cutting and that’s all folks - send me your saw and for just $499 …… 😂
@@HayChaffandSawdust1vibration is a valid concern especially for older gents with tendonitis of the elbows and hands. Vibrations can do a number on ya especially during lengthy cutting sessions. Smoothest saw I’ve ever run / own is the 572xp with the 562xp in the hunt
@fabzacres-blackcat I do consider the fact that I'm not a saw builder to actually be an asset; I don't have production numbers or customers wanting a saw that I have to get sent back out; being a curious mechanical minded sort allows me to just keep gnawing at the same ol bone until I get to the marrow; I've had this saw apart so many times that I've had to helicoil bolt holes.
I tried a different piston today and dyno and heat tested it; ran less than a 1/2 tank through it, seen what I needed to see, and tore it back down again. Cyl is ready to go back on the lathe and cut the base now (took plenty off of the top of the piston to correct a bad shape... )
I ain't really after compression; I'm after a cleaner burn. I took enough off of the piston to lower compression from 150 to 110... was at 174 before I compromised the cylinder with a minor scratch or two.
Almost every builder out there has SOMETHING to offer or a tidbit from which I can learn; but, just like our garden in this wet weather... there's plenty of weeding to do before you get to the fruit!!
Even with the great big loss of compression (and a loss of HP), the saw still ran respectable and the piston and muffler looked much better. It's got a D shaped comb chamber, so I'm a little hindered from the onset, but every saw seems to have a little bit of something we can't make how we think we would like it. Always enjoy the banter and the forthright demeanor!!! I've been accused of never having what's on my mind to be kept a secret!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 saw-builder is a word thrown around kinda like tree feller - just about anyone can do it given the right instruction and mindset! Lotsa production builders out there whose main goal is $ and they build accordingly. Cleaner burn 🔥 / better thermal efficiency can be obtained with more compression however there are drawbacks to taking an engine designed with 135psi and jacking it up to 180-220 , simple physics at work here! I like to take what the factory gives ya and enhance THAT rather than try and “force” the saw via machine work into a “set of numbers” unless absolutely needed which seems to be seldom. I guess if you wanted to build clones that’s the way to do it . I could never understand WHY we are going to cut the base on a lathe using a mandrel when simply using a thinner base gasket will accomplish the same thing but that’s just my 2c. I think too many get caught up in trying to “outthink the factory engineers” and their 10s of millions r/d budget - especially when these new stratos charged controlled air leak saws are concerned. The old school straight shot saws like the 0 series STIHL seem to have good potential from my experience however most older used saws from that era are getting kinda long in the tooth and parts are expensive - might not be worth fixing at the price point given. Sometimes it seems we are opening up a can of worms in addition to the frustration of chasing gremlins 😁! For me the built saw has to have 3 things in order to be considered a successful worksaw build : 1) increased cutting speed in the timber of 20-30 % 2) fuel economy similar to stock 3) longevity similar to stock. If it don’t then you ain’t got a worksaw - you have a toy 🧸
hahahahaha !! You crack Me up Sir !!
@jamesconn7311 Glad you get a kick out of the channel; some can't stand the fact that I can't/won't be serious for 20 minutes straight, but I ain't gunna start pretending to be something I ain't at this late point in my life. With you and others like ya, I'm happy to be among good folks that tolerate my antics.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Yes Sir!! life too short to be serious all the time !! hate to ask again, if my saw is a tad rich which way to turn H screw?? cw or ccw, i cut with it today . some . TIA !! any way to talk by phone ? if not i totally understand . Aint nothin wrong with a litte Bull schitt!!
@jamesconn7311 if it's running a little rich, turn the screw clockerwise (CW) and go Contrary ClockerWise (CCW) to fatten it up. Suggest looking in description and shooting me an email to the address down there.
Nice work! Do you have any idea how different offsets effect the power? I'd assume there's a practical limit where you start running the rod into the case and bottom of the cylinder, but is there an optimum point for power? Like if you keep moving the cylinder incrementally over, does power keep increasing within practical limits or is there a peak and then you start losing power or something else starts getting bad? Do you need to adjust your port timing and spark timing based on the cylinder offset? I'd assume all that changes slightly as you move the cylinder. I just bought myself an MS361 clone kit and some extra cylinders to play with, and I'm adding this to my list of things to try. Probably a winter project.
@JohnSheerin I made a video a week ago of which I am quite proud explaining a good many of the nuances of the offset cylinder. Yes, the timing changed some. I find myself limited in cylinder movement by room for bolt heads against the transfers on the exhaust side; the lower xfers were already ported fairly heavily and relieving more from the outside (for the bolt heads) was sketchy. With another cylinder, I may be able to relieve more from the outside and less from the inside to gain another 0.020" or so. I even chucked the lil' ol' bolts in the lathe and turned down the heads some. Also, another limiting factor will be sealing surface. I believe one will run out of sealing surface or room for bolt heads before one sees a decrease in hp. On the other hand, on the back side of the stroke, it take more inertia from the flywheel to make the compression... I touched on that in the other video too. Thanks for joining-in; glad to hear from ya again!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 LOL - great explanation I was wondering about the width of the sealing surface - that bolt hole expanding 60 thou forward was something else. That was a gutsy mod.
@shakdidagalimal Thanks!! I appreciate you stopping in and expecially for joining-in down here!! I don't recollect seeing you down here in the comments before; really glad to have ya!! It was a little bit of a gutsy mod, but on the other hand, I'm on my 4th cylinder on this saw... I'm getting a pretty good stack of ruined ones. Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug!!
I know you won't do what I did lost 3 fingertips
@richarddodds9326 I hope not!!