PORTING STIHL 026-PISTON WORK for BETTER BURN and FUEL ECONOMY. DYNO RESULTS
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- I used the mini lathe to reshape the piston’s top for better flow into the combustion chamber and promote a better burn and (therefore) better fuel efficiency
IMPORTANT: Everything I do on this channel is for entertainment purposes and to satisfy my OWN curiosity and at my OWN risk. Under no circumstances will Hay Chaff and Sawdust UA-cam Channel be responsible or liable if you decide to re-create or duplicate what I do. Hay Chaff and Sawdust assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk.
We measure heat in the engine while the engine is under a constant and specific (although variable) load. This feature is allowing us explore how heat is effected by IGNITION TIMING, Muffler Mods, Tuned pipes, SINGLE RING VS TWO RING, Spark Plug ranges, etc... the possibilities are endless.
We also record exhaust temperatures along with the head temp and dyno results.
This will/should remove ANOTHER variable from the HP/TQ results on the dyno as one will get a higher HP reading by doing the dyno test while the saw's engine is cooler (as the saw gets warmer and warmer, it makes marginally less and less HP.. we can negate that by warming to a specific temp each time.
I think this is exciting and I am absolute that I have never seen this capability displayed on youtube or internet; I think we (you and I) are the first to have this breakthrough!
This is the continuation of the Stihl 026 Build which we are doing step-by-step.
We will soon be returning to muffler testing to get more power
Stay tuned for further modifications and results.
There is a playlist with the build to this point as well as text cuts and dyno results.
Subscribe to continue to see Chainsaw porting and modifications, how we make Firewood, run the Sawmill, Bale Hay, tend to our Sheep, Hogs, Cattle, Peacocks, Chickens, Guineas, and Doggos. You will also see me making gadgets, tools, food preserving, and other stuff to make farmlife easier on this homestead.
I don't waste much of anything... especially resources! If there is a way to do something cheaper or easier, I'm searching for it.
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Though I have run chainsaws for 60 years you’ve taught me more about the science and physics of how a chainsaw runs than anyone else. Your mind runs like the well tuned saw you used in the tornado video. I don’t know how you sleep with that mind of yours turning at 14,000 RPM’s. Great information, keep um rolling. Enjoyed hearing the rooster put his 2 cents worth in too. Old Mountain Man
@olemountainman3996 I'm proud to have you here and proud you take the time to talk to me; makes me poke my ol' chest out and crow a little myself!! Out of all the things different people may get out of this video, I really thought your take would be something different... when I mentioned rebuilding the saw a couple of times per tank of fuel, I just *KNEW* you would let me know that, if I had a Husqvarna, I wouldn't have to do that. 😉🤣🤣
That ol' tornado saw was my old 310 which was gifted to me my a fellow (no longer with us) who mashed it with a trackhoe; I fixed it and ported it; next, Dad ran over it too (my fault, just ask him!! 🤣😇); it's on borrowed time, but it is my go-to saw when things just HAVE TO work and I don't have patience to take a chance on a saw acting up. It's nearly as reliable as each of our brides!! Glad to hear from ya, Mountain Man. PS, you still owe me a chicken story!!
Always good to see another video from you on here and you always earn way more thumbs up I’m allowed to give you just based on the amount of time and effort I know you have put into them. I don’t care whether or not it’s perfect information to draw a conclusion from. It’s supposed to be fun first of all right? And there are so many variables in life that you simply cannot control that “plenty good enough” information still gets the point across just fine. Heck we’re playing with chainsaws here, right? You’re doing a mighty fine job putting the work in and getting results that make sense and you do a great job of explaining pretty near every possible thing that could be going wrong and very few if any others do that to the extent that you’re doing that on UA-cam and it is NOT going unnoticed. Keep up the amazing work and long live that little 026 test mule.
@FarmlessFarmer-xs1he Thanks Farmless!! Happy Father's day (if applicable); I'm like a little kindergarten kid... I'm just sitting there wide-eyed and soaking it all in and EVERYthing is new and exciting.
Well, not actually ME when *I* was in school... I was daydreaming about pirate ships, watching squirrels out of the window, and eating my crayons!!
The ol' test mule... she's earned another heli-coil on the next tear-down!
I'm about ready for fist cutting of hay to be DONE... I'm supposed to be retired and leading a "life of leisure" here!! It's Sunday though, so no "work" today; should be able to get the next mod (cut base of cyl) on the dyno today, I hope.
Always enjoy talking with you. Be safe sir!!
Always rubber side down. Thank you sir.
Idk if you’ve ever covered it but You can clean that burn up with a bigger gap on your plug. .030-.035 you’ll likely see a change in tune when you fire it up. Stihl tends to have hot coils so I bet it’ll carry it. Worth a shot. Great content as usual
@Houseworksaws No, I've never covered it or even really played with plugs much... other than side gapping them or running the surface gap plugs. I have noticed, now that you mention it, Stihl coils will give a fair jolt.
That dang shape of the top of the piston Vs the chamber... it was terrible; it was like that red and blue plastic ball with the yellow shapes to poke in it... the piston was the triangle and the chamber was a stuffed animal that wasn't even part of the set!!! I just HAD to fix it suspected a better burn as a result.
Sure am glad to hear from you again! ...and I hadn't covered or even considered (consciously) widening the gap to get a cleaner burn; thanks for the thought!! I run pretty huge gaps in my old gasoline tractors (still in farming use), but I also run MSD ignition and coils which are plumb scary; it's amazing the gain in hp/fuel consumption.
Good stuff!!
👍👍 another fun video to watch
@sunbear1973 Thanks; hope to open it up again tomorrow or Sunday and see how it looks after the lowering of the cyl and more piston mods (next chainsaw vid after this one). Been in the field awful had for 2 weeks; chainsaws have taken the back burner for a week or two.
I sure do like how that piston is looking. I imagine dropping that cylinder is going to have a lot of benefits. Great work, thanks for sharing.
@Archer_82 I sure hope so; I know it got compression back up to 160ish; I have not ran it on the dyno yet and also put a new set of rings in it; dropping the cyl changed the timing numbers; with so dang many variables changing by dropping the cylinder, I thought it would be the perfect time to sneak in a different set of rings; the old ones were scored, but the only ones I had at the time.
I've got a tank or tank and half thru it with the cylinder dropped, but haven't really "ran" it and haven't had it on the dyno; hopefully tomorrow. Good to hear from ya!!
On the Dyno it showed about an 8.5% loss with the lower (110 psi) compression and .035 + squish reshaped piston - idk 🤷 if you offset the cylinder this on this particular run ? . What was the squish and compression on the offset cylinder that pulled 4.26 hp - .018 and 170psi or somewhere thereabouts? I’ve been down this road and imho all the power is in the head providing it don’t get too hot 🥵 (then you’re going backwards wasting fuel to keep it cool) - delicate balance here. .027 seems like a good squish and 140-160 psi good for a worksaw. Maybe use a .010 thinner base gasket to get you back into the zone vs cutting the base - once ya cut that’s that UNLESS you have the unobtainable “put-on” tool and if you want to monkey around a bit - using different thickness gaskets is going to be more forgiving and faster imho … There’s been a quite a few saws being built by so called professionals that are grenading as of late because of shoddy lathe work. Seems the lure of a “quick buck” is the culprit here … The bore and cylinder base aren’t square and this causes bore mis alignment and premature failure of the saw. Slip fit mandrel can cause an introduced error with an inexperienced machinist / lathe hand. To get it dead nuts an expanding mandrel ( reverse collet) on the cylinder bore is the best way to ensure perfect concentricity and therefore dead nuts perpendicularly between the bore and the freshly cut cylinder base. Simply Slapping the cylinder on to a turned down “slip/fit” mandrel can introduce error into the process - error which can cause catastrophic premature failure ! Heck one guy got about 165hrs out of a saw before it grenaded and took out the piston/bearing and cylinder and was directly attributable to the bore and base being out of perpendicular ! The piston simply gets beat to hell on every stroke until it goes boom 💥 Anywhere from 400-800 hrs is decent for this version saw but 165hrs ? Heck the saw + mods is 1650 - that’s $10/hr to run it and that’s not including gas/bar oil / chains/ maintenance etc. I ain’t making no $ with THAT! Heck if I pay $600 and get 600hrs (or better) for $1/hr (just the saw) I think I’m doing ok … saw maintenance/ operator diligence goes LONG way in ensuring long life from a saw so ….. then we have guys that can break an anvil with a rubber mallet 😂😜
@fabzacres-blackcat It's been a while since I mentioned the current configuration in-depth. Squish was 0.018 about .0.200 inward on the piston and ~0.040 near the edge; the compression was 150-152 with NO base gasket. This cyl was placed in its offset position and STILL lost that much power/compression.
Also to note, the rings I had (and which had 150psi previously) had wo little marks in them; while awaiting more rings, I had changed positions (top to bottom) so the marks were not lined up. After making this video and scrutinizing the heat results, I suspected I had switched positions with the rings; I had indeed. That didn't help my compression any!
I did cut the base using a slip mandrel, but did take the time to center it at two different locations along its length; if only zeroed in one spot, it can be centered RIGHT THERE, but off exponentially as it gets farther from that particular point (think of the ol "rubber pencil" trick... the center point remains stationary relative to the point of finger contact). With the mandrel centered, the base trued right-in when measuring the face the unmolested flange; hope it's close enough. On the other hand, this cylinder is only going to be good for another test or two before I switch to another aftermarket one. This one has a few imperfections in it from an air leak a few videos ago.
Yes, there was a definite loss of power on this particular trial; the piston's pattern did look promising; I took quite a bit off of it to compliment the shape of the combustion chamber; it was either THAT or recut the chamber to match the piston. THIS is one of those things which will make ya swear off of aftermarket stuff if you are building a saw for serious work; the piston shape vs the chamber and squish shape were just plain terrible; it's like, who ever was cutting the shape for the chamber had never even seen the approximate shape of a piston and visa versa. On the other hand, for me, it's cheap experimenting!
165 HOURS!! Heck, I've been rebuilding twice a tank!! 😉🙄🤣
@@HayChaffandSawdust1the older series saws like the 026 had much tighter cylinder tolerances from the factory than these new “epa-friendly” stratos-charged , controlled air leak saws. In fact , what’d be considered worn out piston / jug clearance is what ya get from a brand new unit from the factory on these newer series saws - you can “get away” with more when ya have .0002 tolerance old school vs a few thousandths new school. I’m glad you understand the concept on the mandrel - I rarely take a base cut anymore on the new saws - just use a thinner gasket … I’m sure the guy that built that 165hr grenade will swear up and down that the cylinder is more true than factory after he made the cut - guess he was incorrect 😂
@fabzacres-blackcat I haven't work on but just one strato saw; controlled air leak is a good way to put it!! I'm probably getting into the area of this 026 where you would disagree (probably because you've 'Been there/done that"), but I have to learn for myself. I think a good many of the ideas were borne of sound theory and application; but by the time someone thinks some is good, more is better and starts going extreme, and not understanding what they are doing, things go south, but sound good on video!
In the first comment, you let-slip a HUGE consideration. Funny thing; in the next video (already shot but not edited... hopefully I can get it soon) I was talking about THAT while cutting the base. Fuel used for cooling VS fuel used to produce power!!!! NOT being a saw builder, a forum follower, and having no predisposed concept of "right and wrong", I come up with some "new" ideas that have actually probably been beat to death and forgotten years ago. I think the secret is in the squish area; I want to try to prove it on the hp and heat readings on the dyno; I am working-out the problems of attempting to do Horsepower/Hour per Gallon; to compare multiple saws, one would need to consider that one specific cylinder was designed to cool 5 hp and made 5 hp (still stock) while another was designed to cool 3 Hp, but makes 5 HP; the fuel-powered radiator has to make the difference. Gotta figure how to prove my concept. Plenty more hay fields to spend my time thinking about how to do and prove!! Always enjoy your take on things and experience; be aware, when I start doing thing with which you disagree, I hope you to still be here; I learn the hard way and want to try things that "shouldn't work" as well as things which were thought to be true ... but may not be.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 I’m more interested in WHAT is right vs WHO is right and I’m glad you’re showing your efforts / results to the class -sometimes what is supposedly “known already” or accepted as common knowledge wilts under scrutiny 🧐 and I think that’s wonderful! Too many myths, legends about these 2-smokers , good to see someone show enuff to actually test the idears so I’ll just keep my yapper to a dull roar k ?
@fabzacres-blackcat Dull roar, loud squeal of a seized bearing, clatter or a spun rod bearing, the rattle of a Mason Jar full of ball bearings... don't matter to me!! I fully enjoy speaking with people who are one the same page even if there is disagreement. An old cliche goes something like "a second-in-command who always agrees, is a waste of money"... just warning ya that I may do some stuff that will grate like fingernails on a chalk board to someone who already knows the answers... was just warning you and inviting you to have the patience stay through my flubs!!!
I’m seeing other videos on the 026. What’s the deal? Wolf Creek Saw Shop evidently has the parts from what they are saying. I run Honda HP2 in my mix (40:1) and it seems to do really well in my 400c’s and a 261. I always enjoy your shows.
@saltrock9642 I guess I'm blazing the trail?? 🤣😎 I don't know... maybe it's the fact that I've been doing the 026 for so long that you tube recommends other channels to you who may actually finish one?? 🙄😉 I know there are better oils and I actually run other oil in some of my stuff; the stuff I build that will go to my dad or just other local friends, it dang well better run on 87 octane (probably with ethanol), cheap oil, and a dull chain... so that's how I show them here!! We may square grind and do a race chain on a piped go-gitter one of these days for fun!! Sure glad you're here!!
So you're running pond water for fuel? Well, there's your problem.
Kinda hard to compare that piston shape to anything with that squish and compression drop. And you got your rings backwards. I don't know how to draw any conclusions from this set of mods.
You are persistent and I have no doubt better things are around the corner.
Always happy to see you've posted another video
@Kevin.L_ I think you are 100% correct on the inability to draw any conclusions with the squish change, compression drop, and ring snafu. I really pooed the scrooch on the rings; I think compression should have been better... 120-140? but still lower.
It's going to also be difficult to quantify the next one; the timing numbers changed some due to lowering cylinder; since I have been using compromised rings (since the time I ran it lean with an air leak) during the thin rings (my good set that I had thinned) test, I took this opportunity to drop in a new set of rings... since there are so many variables changing anyway, I added new-rings to the stew pot.
I just mowed the last ~20 acres of top-ground hay field today (still have a patch in the river bottoms to mow as soon as it dries enough for me to make it thru the mudholes on the ROAD down there)
Hope to run the lowered cylinder on the dyno tomorrow and maybe get a test cut or three. Supposed to be 96 F here tomorrow, so I've better run it early so my cyl temps won't be so far awry. Good to hear from ya Kevin!! It's thoughtful of you and ol Mountain Man in that you both check-in on me if I go past a week without a video; may not seem like much to you guys, but means a good deal to me!
@Kevin.L_ Pond water??!! With all the chem trails, acid rain, and Paraquat run-off, pond water runs a little too hot in my saws; gotta thin it down with a little fingernail polish remover!! 😉🙄🤣🤣
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 It's from from Richard Flagg. He thinks Stihl ultra is the worst oil made and calls it pond water when he dumps the customer fuel.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 96 is too hot for anything good. I work in what's nicknamed the air conditioned city and 80 is a warm day. I'll not complain about my low 80s tomorrow. Do you finish the last field before the first needs mowed again.
@Kevin.L_ Yes Sir!! Mr Flagg had made some great videos and especially on oil-testing. I missed the one where he gave ultra the moniker though; that's funny!! Growing up on pond water, I can tell you what it does to filters, pipes, shower walls, etc... he's right on the money!! Funny thing, my local Stihl Dealer (years ago, when I was buying my first non throwaway saw, sold me the saw, but wouldn't sell me the oil. Actually told me to go the a local farm store and buy Poulan oil; at the time, it was far superior. I tend to run the "pond water" cue to it being what EVERYONE runs around here; if I build a saw, I have to get it to run on junk and in adverse conditions... but again, I ain't a builder; I just build one here and there for somebody local that wants it "fixed"... and I get to play with it for free with THEM paying for parts. I don't charge anything; just a hobby with opportunities to learn stuff. Mr Flagg is a pretty good dude, I think.