I think we should remember also the heartbreaking testimony of Rav Zecharia from the Roman conquere of Yerushalaim, in Ketubot (chapter 2, mishna 9): "I swear by this temple, that her hand didn't leave mine from the moment the heathens entered Yerushalaim until they left" [by that he meant to testify that his wife was not raped and therefore should be allowed to stay with him although he was a Cohen]. He stood for women all along the way, apparently - and in that case also, the other sages sadly didn't accept his words and he was probably forced to divorce her 😞
Oh lord, are they really trying to kol v'chomer-splain things now? 🙄 I'm genuinely surprised that nobody brought up the idea that, since men inherit their Jewishness from their mothers, they can inherit other things from their mothers.
This is such a good question- I know the switchover from patrilineal to matrilineal was around 200 CE? Maybe it wasn’t a big thing yet? And maybe it didn’t have enough halachic power to change inheritance laws, and was only about defining Jewishness?
@MiriamAnzovin I thought Jewishness was always determined by the mother (I.e, belonging to the Nation of Israel), while the father determined the Tribal identity.
Wow! This calls to mind the science of ancestry I barely have an inkling on its significance, which is the inheritance of mitochondrial DNA, of maternal ancestry, that can be traced for millennia to a "mitochondrial Eve" and, as I understand carries through to descendants in a straight line that can only be inherited from the mother. And that ties into my mind the Divine Feminine who is the Shekinah! Lone Wolf Rabbi, to me in a tangential and yet also central way, is the man commendable for breaking up the assumptions of patriarchy! In all its forms! Judaic expansive long standing, I will say, "progressive" notions in the midst of unquestioned patriarchy. A feat to be proud of on this 111st episode! Proudfoot? Proudfeet!
You've hit the nail on the head! I know very well that we can't hold people of the past to the moral standards of the present, in terms of patriarchy/sexism for example, but that's why it's always so phenomenal and mind boggling to discover those individuals who were ahead of their time so dramatically - I remember when I learned Moed Katan 9 (the first episode that really went "Jewish viral" several years ago lol) I realized that learning Talmud telescopes time. sometimes we encounter people/situations in the learning that are clearly of a bygone age, that we struggle to understand or relate to. and on the other hand sometimes there is no daylight at all between my opinions and those of someone who died 1800 years ago. And that's an amazing thing, truly amazing. The fact that these lone wolf opinions, or just minority opinions, are recorded in the Talmud as well as the majority opinions, is one of the reasons it is so compelling to learn!
@MiriamAnzovin I love the Talmud in all its permutations and nuances then! And to be clear, I think the thinkers back then are leagues more respectable and thoughtful even in their patriarchy than any form of patriarchy today! I realize the term "progressive" can be cringe, as the kids say these days. I do know forward in time does not at all equal "progress" nor advancement in creativity or thinking. Take for example the masterful physical puppeteering of Yoda in Empire Strikes Back and of the stop motion of Clash of the Titans with Harry Hamlin, both done by Harry Winston, I believe. The digital effects from today's iterations or the made prequels as far as presence don't hold a light! I don't buy the pop culture saying, "still holds up today" as if today is the standard of advancement in story, effects, characterization, when it's often the devolution, decadence of having it easy. Pardon the soapbox tangent. Same for attempted remakes of classics. Even the suggestion or expectation of Casablanca! How dare!
It’s going to be truly unbearable. I hope to give people some entertaining distractions, if anyone finds that helpful. Sometimes it’s good to not think about the horror for a few minutes, if possible. Sending you all my best wishes for a good and safe chag
kal vachomer- has 2 Latin translations, depending on which way you're arguing. If you're starting point is the stronger side, it's a fortiori -from the major - , but you can also start from the weaker side, then it's a minori - from the minor.
@MiriamAnzovin Your doing an awesome job, I love your take on all these. As we know from the beginning... (בראשית "אלפ" ) Genesis 1 Male and Female are "created" as 1 "ADM" "אדם" in the image of Elohim (equal) Yahweh Elohim (the son of Elohim) in Genesis 2 (which is the "Formation" not "Creation") adjusts it just a little bit...lol. Thus, the chaotic confusion in this current & Crazy world lol. ברך בשם אלהים ויהוה אלהים
It was comparing women's right to inherent based on the comparison to Leverite marriage that made me cringe for the past few days, but all in all, the sages did seem (and this can be my mistake) open to women's inheritance in their favor. We all love a based lone wolf! Shana tova, btw!
I know you don't care for Roman things, but, for the record, the "a" in "a fortiori" is a part of the Latin phrase, and not an indefinite article. "An a fortiori argument." Given how in awe I am of your brilliance, I hope you don't mind the minor nitpick / mansplanation 😆
I NEVER count him! NEVER! And it’s not only that I can’t count! 😂That’s why I made sure to say “based” rulings! Not all the rulings :) although I immediately did think of Yosei HaGallili and his conviction that chicken parm is totally kosher lollll
I think we should remember also the heartbreaking testimony of Rav Zecharia from the Roman conquere of Yerushalaim, in Ketubot (chapter 2, mishna 9): "I swear by this temple, that her hand didn't leave mine from the moment the heathens entered Yerushalaim until they left" [by that he meant to testify that his wife was not raped and therefore should be allowed to stay with him although he was a Cohen]. He stood for women all along the way, apparently - and in that case also, the other sages sadly didn't accept his words and he was probably forced to divorce her 😞
I remember that vividly. He was such a real one.
He built a house for her in his courtyard 😭
Oh lord, are they really trying to kol v'chomer-splain things now? 🙄
I'm genuinely surprised that nobody brought up the idea that, since men inherit their Jewishness from their mothers, they can inherit other things from their mothers.
This is such a good question- I know the switchover from patrilineal to matrilineal was around 200 CE? Maybe it wasn’t a big thing yet? And maybe it didn’t have enough halachic power to change inheritance laws, and was only about defining Jewishness?
@@MiriamAnzovin Interesting. 200 CE is later than I would have guessed!
@MiriamAnzovin
I thought Jewishness was always determined by the mother (I.e, belonging to the Nation of Israel), while the father determined the Tribal identity.
Love a good eleventy-first.
Quality number! ( not if you ask the sackville bagginses tho)
@@MiriamAnzovin I somehow doubt you have to ask, they seem the type to let you know without prompting.
Lobelia would shake an umbrella at us
Wow! This calls to mind the science of ancestry I barely have an inkling on its significance, which is the inheritance of mitochondrial DNA, of maternal ancestry, that can be traced for millennia to a "mitochondrial Eve" and, as I understand carries through to descendants in a straight line that can only be inherited from the mother. And that ties into my mind the Divine Feminine who is the Shekinah! Lone Wolf Rabbi, to me in a tangential and yet also central way, is the man commendable for breaking up the assumptions of patriarchy! In all its forms! Judaic expansive long standing, I will say, "progressive" notions in the midst of unquestioned patriarchy. A feat to be proud of on this 111st episode! Proudfoot? Proudfeet!
You've hit the nail on the head! I know very well that we can't hold people of the past to the moral standards of the present, in terms of patriarchy/sexism for example, but that's why it's always so phenomenal and mind boggling to discover those individuals who were ahead of their time so dramatically - I remember when I learned Moed Katan 9 (the first episode that really went "Jewish viral" several years ago lol) I realized that learning Talmud telescopes time. sometimes we encounter people/situations in the learning that are clearly of a bygone age, that we struggle to understand or relate to. and on the other hand sometimes there is no daylight at all between my opinions and those of someone who died 1800 years ago. And that's an amazing thing, truly amazing. The fact that these lone wolf opinions, or just minority opinions, are recorded in the Talmud as well as the majority opinions, is one of the reasons it is so compelling to learn!
@MiriamAnzovin I love the Talmud in all its permutations and nuances then! And to be clear, I think the thinkers back then are leagues more respectable and thoughtful even in their patriarchy than any form of patriarchy today! I realize the term "progressive" can be cringe, as the kids say these days. I do know forward in time does not at all equal "progress" nor advancement in creativity or thinking. Take for example the masterful physical puppeteering of Yoda in Empire Strikes Back and of the stop motion of Clash of the Titans with Harry Hamlin, both done by Harry Winston, I believe. The digital effects from today's iterations or the made prequels as far as presence don't hold a light! I don't buy the pop culture saying, "still holds up today" as if today is the standard of advancement in story, effects, characterization, when it's often the devolution, decadence of having it easy. Pardon the soapbox tangent. Same for attempted remakes of classics. Even the suggestion or expectation of Casablanca! How dare!
Delighted directed by Miriam’s Channel from Esoterica
Welcome welcome!!!
Ahh just love listeni g to u
"He ain't s**t" (Bava Batra, 111)
Shana Tova and Chag Sameach - however hard the chag is going to be this year
It’s going to be truly unbearable. I hope to give people some entertaining distractions, if anyone finds that helpful. Sometimes it’s good to not think about the horror for a few minutes, if possible. Sending you all my best wishes for a good and safe chag
kal vachomer- has 2 Latin translations, depending on which way you're arguing. If you're starting point is the stronger side, it's a fortiori -from the major - , but you can also start from the weaker side, then it's a minori - from the minor.
Nice lol, riveting subject.
At least the "111" anyway lol. "אלפ"
This subject is boring me to tears lol
@MiriamAnzovin
Your doing an awesome job, I love your take on all these.
As we know from the beginning...
(בראשית "אלפ" )
Genesis 1
Male and Female are "created" as 1 "ADM" "אדם" in the image of Elohim (equal)
Yahweh Elohim (the son of Elohim) in Genesis 2 (which is the "Formation" not "Creation") adjusts it just a little bit...lol.
Thus, the chaotic confusion in this current & Crazy world lol.
ברך בשם אלהים ויהוה אלהים
💯👏🏼👏🏼☝🏼☝🏼
❤ how ya doing?
It was comparing women's right to inherent based on the comparison to Leverite marriage that made me cringe for the past few days, but all in all, the sages did seem (and this can be my mistake) open to women's inheritance in their favor.
We all love a based lone wolf!
Shana tova, btw!
Based lone wolves FTW! Yalta, please deal with Rav Nachman, THANK YOU! (And Shana tova to you as well!)
I thought R- Zechariah was the clearest opinion that made the most sense - then again I am the oldest child and daughter! Glad times are changing!
He did! He was right! I’ll time travel back to tell him so!
I'm not surprised.
♡ R' Zecharia, my mans waaay ahead of his time.
He really was 😭😭😭🫡🫡🫡
I think it makes him a Family Wolf
LOLLLLL
I know you don't care for Roman things, but, for the record, the "a" in "a fortiori" is a part of the Latin phrase, and not an indefinite article. "An a fortiori argument."
Given how in awe I am of your brilliance, I hope you don't mind the minor nitpick / mansplanation 😆
Sorry
Doubling down on mansplaining, kal v'chomer is one type of a fortiori known as "A maiore ad minus"
@talmoskowitz5221: I admit that I did not know that. I'm good at Latin, but bad at logic 😆
@MiriamAnzovin: Please, no apology called for!
As for lone-wolf rulings, I'd be happier to support them on principle if they didn't include Rabbi Eleazar and his stupid carob tree!
I NEVER count him! NEVER! And it’s not only that I can’t count! 😂That’s why I made sure to say “based” rulings! Not all the rulings :) although I immediately did think of Yosei HaGallili and his conviction that chicken parm is totally kosher lollll
@@MiriamAnzovin Ooh, good point... I think I could make an exception for chicken parm!
רעאַקטיאָנען צום גמרא אויף יוטוב, איך מיין אַז איך האָב יעצט שוין אַלעס געזעהן אין מײַנעם לעבן, אחוץ משיח, נאָר פאַר יעצט...
ס׳איז אבער א שאד און נאריש אז יוטוב איבערזעצט "משיח" אזוי ווי די קריסטן.
און פון א היימישע פרוי!
@@davidtrak2679
אַ גוטע בת ציון!
@@jdm314
איך פארשטיי נישט פארוואס דאס פאסירט, עס מאכט מיר קראנק.
Men need help. At least now.