Cheap Vs. Expensive! Forged vs. Billet Receivers
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2019
- Patreon: / kotaboy32
Email: kotaboy32@gmail.com
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I rooting for "El Cheapo" to kick "big bucks" butt on the range!
Here!! Here!!
There's really only one place where going cheap truly hurts the function of the AR itself. The Trigger. There no triggers that are both cheap and "good". Although really, milspec triggers are fine with a little polishing, nothing compared to a geissele or larue or any other high end triggers, but they're perfectly serviceable for very little money. Most everything else has little to no effect on the function of an AR, it might affect the durability or the ergos or the weight and it certainly affects the appearance, but the actual function is largely untouchable unless you're going to cutting edge competition JP parts or something. If you put all the parts together correctly and your gas port isn't drilled the wrong size, there's pretty much no issues that can't be solved with some polishing and lubrication.
You can get 1.5 moa barrels for 50 bucks and submoa barrels for 100. You can even get lucky and get submoa 50 dollar barrels.
You can get chinesium mlok handguards for 40 bucks made out of 6061-t6 just like every other handguard, they might weigh a few oz more or you might have to locktite them to keep them from rotating, or you might have to time the barrelnut with spacers, but otherwise they're perfectly functional.
You can get uppers for 40 bucks. These work fine, same as any PSA upper.
You can get lowers for 30 bucks. These work fine, same as any PSA lower. Will it fit as nicely as a matched pair of aero receivers? No, but it will work just fine.
You can get BCGs for 50 bucks. They work just fine, I've got about 500 rounds on one of PSA's 50 dollar BCGs with no BCG related issues, no breakages or extractor ripping off rims.
Milspec charging handles, gasblocks, gastubes, and all the other small minor parts and controls are perfectly fine. If you're going ultra cheap with 30 dollar chinese parts kits I've yet to have a set that actually fail work out of the box, though usually the fit and finish benefits from some polishing. If you own any higher end parts in this realm, such as a nice safety lever, I've used these as guides for cleaning up and enhancing the machining on the cheap chinesium parts and it does work wonders. A few minutes with a dremel can make a chinesium safety lever feel as smooth and nice in the throw as a radian. All it takes is some chamferring, polishing, and a little bit of lubrication.
You can get braided buffer springs for 18 bucks from armsunlimited, I have about 5 of these running in various platforms and calibers on ARs and they all eliminate the annoying twang and have worked flawlessly.
The truth of the matter is that if you put a good trigger like a larue in a 400 dollar AR, bringing it up to a 500 dollar AR, it's going to be about 95% as good as a 1500 dollar AR at putting rounds on target. Trigger and optic are almost everything to an AR in terms of getting rounds on target.
$100 rise armament drop in trigger could be consider cheap and good when compared to a $400 trigger. Are you going to get $300 more performance out of the expensive trigger? I doubt it very much
I have some PSA triggers . They're just as good as the person behind it. Plus you can spend the left over money on other stuff.
Great videos!! I am a competitive shooter in Las Veagas and the southwest so I am fortunate to shoot at least 104 times a year. We put a lot of lead down range. Does eco vs expensive matter, yes. Does light weight vs heavy matter, yes. When you are continually throwing your rifle in a dump box or running and quickly posting up on a prop things get damaged, dented and scratched. Trying to maneuver in and out of different arrays and running with your rifle weight matters. Point being ultra light build parts, such as V Seven, come with a price, perform extremely well and can take a beating. A couple items that are worth noting when building a rifle some billet uppers and lowers are not MIL spec but most most forged uppers and lovers are MIL spec. When building a rifle with a billet upper and lower receivers make sure your parts are compatible. The reason most forged uppers and lowers are MIL spec is there are approximately twelve foundries that forge all the upper and lower receivers, companies such as Colt, Palmetto and Aero purchase there receivers from the same foundry and the fit and finish is at the discretion of the seller. I am interested in your opinion regarding bolts, I am a fan of the Sharps because with the angle cut of the lugs it guarantees consistent lock up helping when you are putting 300 plus rounds down range and you start to get build up. If you are building these rifles to be a truck gun or an occasional shooting rifle I don't believe you will see a significant difference in performance but if these rifles are heavy used, such as competition, there will be a point were your investment in better parts will pay off. If this wasn't true all the sponsored shooters would be running stock rifles with no modifications. Keep up the great work!
Loving this build content, esp from competition standpoint. I've been doing matches for about 1.5 years now and it's a great way to test your setup as well as get valuable training for relatively cheap.
Excellent video series - Glad to see that you are using Aero Precision parts. They use Statistical Process Control within their manufacturing and QC process to produces top quality parts. You can pay more, but you will not get a better quality build at an exceptional price. One of the best kept secrets!
The secrets been out for awhile now, and that they manufacture many top-tier brands that cost triple theirs!
Aero Precision M4E1 is awesome!
Thanks again for the comparison build videos! For a novice like me, these vids are full of great info to get me started on the road to building my own.
I think as far as upper receivers go, as long as it's milspec, it makes little to no difference, imo...if the finish is slightly different, it just adds character to the gun.
If someone is that worried about thimerosal finish,I'd argue they are buying it for the wrong reason and maybe need to start knitting. Grab a damn rattle can.lol
Love this series of videos your making, thanks for making them
Thanks for another video brother we appreciate all you do
All I know is most billet receivers are made from 7075-T651 billet aluminum and has a tensile strength of 83,000 psi a yield strength of 73,000 psi shear strength of 48,000 psi elongation 11% and a Brinell hardness of 150.
Whereas 6061-T651Alluminum has a Tensile strength of 45,000 psi a 40,000 psi a shear strength of 31,000 psi a 17% elongation and a Brinell hardness of 95.
Not sure if all that actually matters that much or not. All of my previous builds have been 6061-T651 with no problems, however with my current build I went with a F-1 firearms billet matched upper and lower with 7075-T651. This will be my last AR-15 build so I figured why not go pretty much all out. In the end, the build will be as follows.
F-1 Firearms UDR-15 Billet 7075-T651 3G STYLE MATCHED UPPER AND LOWER
F-1 Firearms Billet 7075-T651 C7M contoured handguard
Spikes Tactical Nickel Boron lightweight bcg
Sb Tactical PDW Pistol brace
Ballistics Advantage premium match grade 223 Wilde 11.3 inch barrel
Tyrant designs lightweight handgrip
Geissele super dynamic 3 gun (SD-3G) Trigger
Adjustable gas block
Optics to be decided but will probably be either Aimpoint or possibly something with night vision capabilities. (If anyone has a recommendation I am all ears:))
Additionally, it will probably be suppressed.
Not sure if any of this makes for a better rifle or not as of yet $$$ but we won't even mention that part to my wife :) She does as of now allow me to do what I want when it comes to guns. I know I am a lucky guy! Not sure if the psi differences between the 2 aluminum grades changes things all that much when looking at forged or billet.
Really fun series. Ty Kota
I just took 1500 grit and light machining oil to smooth the striations in the upper. Now it is as smooth as silk. One has to disassemble the upper assy to do this as one can generate abrasive slurry using this process. Perhaps the extra cost is associated with brand and/or finish work. Thanks for sharing Kotaboy!
I agree it's economy. If you want cheap look no further than me. I'm cheap 😂👍
I applaud your honesty, Uncle Dan you ol' cheapskate🤣😁
@@kevinroberts9580 well ain't no need sugar coatin' it!
@@UncleDanBand64 I resemble that remark
Me to Uncle Dan lol
@@bigpoppa6998 LOL yep👍
"I preach what I speak." 🤔 I'm so going to steal that line! 😇 You da man.
My bottom line is, as long as it works for you, what it cost is irrelevant.
Frank Hellman lol.
Love the shirt brother! I love seeing someone representing the mitten, even if it's just a shirt..
Don't go in dry bro
LMAO
Yes sir, that is what causes that sound.
That's what she said.
My last two builds have been with VLTOR Mur uppers. They do have a bit more material in certain areas to make them stronger than a regular mil spec. And they look really cool similar to a billet receiver although these are forged. Vltor is an aerospace and defense company and they make some really high quality stuff.
The uppers are a little pricey but not as bad as some of the fancy stuff, and you can catch them on sale. I would like to have one of the lowers to go with it but they are crazy expensive for the lowers.
I did get a couple of billet lower receivers for a good price, about $115 or so from a newer small company called 17 Design. Very nice and clean machine work.
Great video.I did the very same scenario and kept a detailed count sheet on both.I built one with mostly PSA parts..Im intersted to see if your turnout the same as mine or much different. Thanks for a bunch of great videos KB32
Great info. Thank you sir.
The spikes and the sig m400 uppers have a type of gray coating on the inside that seem a lot smoother and the bcg slides A lot quieter to me.
One of these days I will have my Gucci gun but until then, I will buy them cheap and stack them deep. PSA all the way 😃
This is the wisest thing I've read all weekend 🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫
Same here...I shop both BCA and PSA...I have an AR that has a PSA freedom lower with a BCA upper, they work great together and so far it is a blast to shoot.
I agree, Brother...One day...Unfortunately probably sooner than later...we're all going to look back at this time when a quality AR could be assembled for under $400.00 and everybody's going to say, 'I SHOULD HAVE BUILT 10!!!'
@@CrustyWhiteBread buy cheap stack them deep brother!
EXCELLENT COMMENT. I don't buy from PSA any more though. I build all my stuff with parts from all over the place. However just like you, I buy cheap and stack deep.
Metallurgical the forging process compresses the grain structure and actually makes the grain flow with the shape of the part with the forged receivers. The billet receiver is sometimes a play on words. Is it a cast block of aluminum that is tossed into a CNC mill to make it or is it a "forged" billet where the block of aluminum is first pressed to compress the grain structure of the block then tossed into the CNC mill?? Two totally different "billet" parts. (I'd take standard forged parts over "billet" all day long BTW) Range lizards love going on long rants describing each Gucci billet part they have on their AR, as I slowly reach up and turn the volume off on my hearing protection...........
I watched a video from MIZUNO that uses grain flow forging on their golf clubs, I'm dumb as a rock when it come to metal technology and from what I've seen the grain flow forging it superior to anything out there
As a longtime machinist, this is a pet peeve of mine. Forging is a manufacturing process. A billet is a solid block of material. Comparing forging to billet is like comparing sawing to a log.
In forging, a billet or rough-machined part is compressed into near-net shape in a compression process like hammering or drop forging. The forging is then machined to final dimensions.
What everyone seems to want to refer as "billet" is a billet that is machined with no intermediate forging step.
Better comparisons would be forged vs all machined and billet vs casting.
After watching a few videos from this series... I'm still trying to understand if there's any difference beyond aesthetics.
Otherwise, I'll save my money for ammo!
It's difficult to know if the reviewer only mentions the aesthetics
Not really people prefer certain designs I’m simple I like the simplistic stamp of aero I don’t like spikes tactical design stamp
For the 80% people, billet os easier to work with.
I swear by the Minimalist stock. Lightweight and unbreakable for all practical purposes. As someone who trained and fought for more than two decades with a safe-ish version of a medieval pole-arm, I really like the ability to strike with a very small area and intentionally hook.
Ha..Econ build. I just finished a lower I picked up in 2015 for $15 w/purchase of a few training courses. They even tossed a CMMG lower parts for that 15. Did a BCA upper for $225 delivered (16” heavy, A2 flash and side charge). Picked up a fixed carbine stock kit for $39 and a red dot with 1” riser for $45.... lol. That’s budget. But I’m in MA so I had to get a comp and get it pinned & welded before taking to range...
Love the Detroit Vs Everybody shirt.
Keep them coming Brother!
I think a true mil spec rifle will be just as if not more durable than a high end billet. And shoot just as good.
Billet, whether steel or aluminum is not as strong as forged. Billet is a process from extruding a block of bar stock. The bar is formed by molten metal being formed in to bar stock, and then squeezed or extruded between rollers. Forging heats raw metal until malleable but not molten and then the pieces are hammered into shape, changing the metal grain, and making it much stronger. Billet is easier to machine on CNC and more aesthetic when finished.
Thanks for the information but I knew that already. When I said more durable I was referring to long term use and normal wear and tear, not like a torcher test.
I’m kinda ol’ skool, kinda modern day kinda builder. You can’t touch the history & simplicity of a A1 retro build, at the same time there’s modern day billet receivers & designs that just looks freaking sharp! Point is you can still build a top-tier weapon if you know how & where to source your parts list(doesn’t hurt if you got got knowledge & taste) to your creations.
This is some great information.
I appreciate how receivers may be a bit hard to compare from forged and billet other than looks but what do you think of side charging options? They seem to be a good option for competition builds?
Should I anticipate any problems with an (broken arms) 80% lower 11.5 pistol build with a Fostech echo ll ? Tolerance/precision wise as far as my work milling out the lower?
Kotoboy,I know it’s a older video, but have you tried the BCM upper receivers on any of your builds..... what are your thoughts vs a Aero or other well know company’s
Love the T-shirt, thanks for the info and all the videos
Good vid sir....Good stuff....
It all matter on how it shoots when your done, no matter the cost.
this is def one of my favorite videos to watch at the moment, cant wait to see them go head to head shooting
Man i love the series! I'm still in love with forged items
Forged lowers are stronger than bullet or cast. But if you are not planning on using the lower as a pry bar of some type,I think whatever someone can afford is what they should go with. The reality is they all do the same job. I can use a semi to haul my lawnmower,doesnt make it a better choice than my pickup tho.
200 yard accuracy test how tight are the groups you can get out of each one and whether or not you get key holes or a wide spread of the rounds that's my question for when you finally shoot them
Hey Kotaboy32, I am really excited and very much enjoying this series. When you get to the trigger portion, could you go over single-stage verse 2 stage triggers and what their applications are? I have only lived in the single-stage arena and have never seen a need to jump into a 2 stage. Is a 2 stage trigger even considered in the competition realm that you are aiming these platforms for? Thank you for your time.
Will do
Standard mil-spec, that's for sure the best option before high dollars start floating out.
The difference I notice is that the bullet receivers won't always be the same clearance near the threads, so a handguard with anti rotation tabs won't always fit. On the mil-spec uppers it seems like there's good fitment almost every time..... Of course I'm not talking about billet receiver/handguard combos that are made to fit together.
you should check out the larue MBT2s trigger. IMO best bang for your buck for a 2 stage.
I've reached out to them for a sample to test. I haven't heard back from them yet
@@kotaboy32 hopefully they're able to get one out to you. if not, they're only going for $80 right now and $10 of that goes towards the fight for the 2nd. they've recently introduced their flat bow and single stage trigger I really wanna check out.
@@kotaboy32 reach out to me... i have a spare? Just need it back eventually 😉
Good information and video
I had an upper receiver that sounded like that and all I did was take polishing compound and wrap it around and shotgun brush and used my drill and did it really slow and it's fine now shoots fine
Awesome I enjoy these episodes
I'm just here cause the shirt.
Didn't know your my neighbor
If your building a lightweight rifle start with forged receiver sets. Aero Precision M4E1 sets are good to go.
I've been trying to decide on an upper for my new SCO15 lower build. Hoping to find a BCM available but that looks like a pipe dream. Want high quality and tight fitment. Not cheaping out on this one.
Just a heads up for those that don't know, primary arms is having a freedom flash sale so if you're looking to build an AR there are some good deals to be had.
So are forged aluminum uppers stronger or weaker than billet aluminum? or would you say they are the same?
Forged aluminum generally refers to material that is ‘forged’ into a specified shape. Forging a lower receiver requires “compressive forces.” In other words it is “hammered” into forging dies to shape the aluminum into the intermediate dimension of the lower receiver. After the aluminum lower is forged into the initial shape, the raw forging is then ‘finished’ on a CNC machine.
Metallurgists agree that a forged piece of aluminum is stronger than cast or billet. The reason being, when the material is shaped under pressure, its ‘grain’ follows the same shape as the part. As a result, the product manufactured is stronger due to the continuous grain characteristics allowed by the forging process.
they are about the same in strength, the difference has to do with how the material will fail a forged upper will usually fragment when it fails while a billet will crack with little to no fragmentation saving your limbs and face neck area from potential damage. Not really necessary to go billet unless you are shooting something with a lot of powder that can cause the material to fail, such as .50 bewolf or .458 socom those you may want a billet but otherwise go with forged and save the money. The only other advantage a billet can have is they can be found in matched upper and lowers usually so you will have a tighter fit up to your two receiver parts allowing for less wiggle in it.
i would like to see video of actual muzzle rise these when done. maybe a before you get them dialed in and after. like initial range test before you make any gas or buffer changes. once you get them dialed in then another shoot-ability comparison. splits and accuracy would be great also but somewhat dependent on shooter, but a noticeable difference in the two would be noteworthy. great series.
Not sure if anyone in the comments has mentioned this .. There is a Forging mark on the Forged uppers on the right side . You pointed right at it on one of the uppers . But didn’t mention it . There is a website to find out which manufacture made the forged Blank . Just thought some folks may be interested in knowing where there’s came from . Enjoy Your Video’s .... Thanks 🙏
I'll expand the discussion a little bit beyond 3 gun. Determine your purpose. If it's going to be a battle rifle, forged receivers will be marginally stronger and lighter, but either are fine. Avoid with severs with lightning Cuts all the way through. if it is going to be a big bore, you will need a receiver with an oversized ejection port. You may also choose to mill it out yourself. When it comes to a cool build, billet is the way to go. Billet can be used to give a receiver decoration and clean lines. Although either can have a cool logo on the side. When it comes to a light build, it depends on your budget and what your definition of light is. It's possible to go with a forged upper and a hybrid lower, a matched upper and lower with a bunch of lightning cuts, or receivers made out of a special material like manganese alloy. For longevity in a light build, I would avoid a polymer lower without the metal inserts. Something extra to look for would be a set screw to take up the slack between the upper and lower, and accuwedge, or a well matched upper and lower.
Only things I don't cheap out on are barrels, BCGs and triggers. Handguards too if the handguard is longer than 8 inches.
Which coating do you think add more rigidity to the bolt carry? TitN, DLC, Nitrate salt bath since you have all three samples with you
I like the dlc
Can you do a video on side charging uppers?
Any plans to compare standard lowers to ambidextrous lowers like the Radian ADAC or American Defense MFG UIC
Barrel, trigger and tuned reloads make any AR a one hole rifle. Check Walther in Atlanta. I bought a 16’ SS 1in 8 barrel for $140. It was a blem, but it is amazingly accurate.
Far as the upper receiver sounds only mean it needs to wear in and that's not a bad thing. It is important that the upper receiver hasn't been slightly crushed so the inside diameter has been altered and the bolt carrier group become tight move in and out. I have seen upper receivers that novices have put in a vise during build and altered the inside diameter of the upper causing the bolt carrier to hang up or not fully move forward. When breaking in an AR-15 it is always wise to keep those rails on a bolt carrier well lubed.
On the upper what I have found is that over time the cam pin channel is what wears.
Aero precision receivers that you have are "billet style". I have a set as well. No different except price.
You have my attention now.
KB32 voice sounds exactly like Bruce Prichard. His accent is nearly identical too.
kotaboy32 tac....you should do an update version on this...and i mean a 2021 version of this with some of the newer accessories and MODs since this video.
The differences in grittiness, and squeakyness between the BCG's and Upper's would've been noticed more if fully assembled (charging handle included) and properly oiled.
I think it all depends on what you value. A Ruger American, Mossberg Patriot, Marlin, etc., are plenty accurate and capable rifles, but they are not a pre 64 model 70 Winchester. Nor, are they intended to be. The new line of polymer 380s, are great for their purpose, but they will never be a 1908 Colt Pocket Pistol, and they were never intended to be either. Today, they can make firearms that are practical, reliable, and relatively inexpensive, especially compared to the time, effort and workmanship required to make an heirloom piece,which was essentially the norm in the past, with respect to firearms. I once had the opportunity to buy a vest pocket Colt with the $12.50 price tag still on it and the original box of Ammo with 6 cartridges missing, for $600. I still regret not walking out with that pistol those many years ago. I ended up buying one in not as pristine condition for 300 made in 1917. It functioned perfectly. So if you are buying for pure functionality, get what you can afford, or are willing to spend, and go enjoy your new firearm. If you are wanting something that your children and your children’s children may cherish someday, get the best firearm you can. Most likely, if you live long enough, you will own both ends of the spectrum. It is truly a great time to be a firearm enthusiast.
Use Molly graphite grease and work it back and forth with the carrier you will be using I it. It will lap itself in in short order. Then clean and lube it. I use the stay lube Molly on mine. The acitone clean the carrier bolt upper and everything to remove the Molly. It's a lot of scrubbing but it quiets down fast.
So glad someone said it. That receivers are receivers.
Hey brother the PA pistol range you visit has been updated with a concrete slab and a roof, but beware they are looking for the smallest reason to handout fines. I received one today for firing my EDC pistol two times (2 bullets) to test my zero, and be a responsible firearms owner at 11:00am and found-out that the range is not to be used on Sunday before noon 🤨🙄🤷🏻♂️ make sure to very carefully read the full page of posted Fine Print rules.
Love the shirt. Michigan Love. Nice topic too.
$113 trigger? I have less than that in my most recent complete lower receiver build. Lol
$104 in the lower. $429 in the upper. Runs great. Not a ton of rounds through it yet but time will tell.
My wifes newest 10.5 inch pistol she spent $260 on the complete pistol not including irons or rds. Complete! It's an Anderson lower and lower parts kit. Colt upper,psa bcg,bear creek barrel. She bought the brace in the box used and the hand guard used. The only part she already had was just a standard charging handle. It a 1.5moa gun and shes put probably ly 2,500 rounds thru it already without a stoppage. These lower cost companies have stepped up their game on quality and have kept the low cost. Noone should buy any.thing prebuilt,not even an upper. Between the used market and what you can buy the parts new it's just too cheap not to build everything.
(Edit) she did have to polish the feed ramps tho. At first it was a 7 or 8moa. The feed ramps were scarring the jacket of the projectile when clambering. Polished the feed ramps and it straightened it right up. 1.5moa . Great for any firearm but especially one with a $39 barrel
Aero Precision...all the way!!! Them or BCM, you cannot go wrong. Billet is overrated.
I think the only thing that matters is barrel fit, I usually lap the upper receiver so the barrel fits flush, then hopefully the the barrel fit is tight or next to impossible unless heat is used, to install the barrel.
No the upper is just as important, especially if you want a precision rifle. I always tell people the best upper for precision shooting is actually a cheap receiver, and it is the DPMS slickside upper. The DPMS slickside is the thickest upper you can get, and it is amazing just how thick it is. The bad part is it has no features that the cool kids want. No forward assist, no shell deflector, so dust cover, but again it is for precision shooting so those features are not needed. In all honestly if I were building a 308 precision rifle my number one choice for an upper would be the DPMS slickside LR308 upper, and if I were building an AR15 for precision shooting my number one choice for an upper would be the slickside upper. It may be hard to find a Slickside LR308 upper or and AR15 slickside upper from DPMS, but several companies make exact copies. The LR308 slickside upper has an ultra high rail, that makes it so you have no trouble reaching the charging handle with a scope attached and that the scope does not touch the handguards. Both uppers are cheap, and the clones are cheap too, but I'd choose them over any other upper if I was building an AR15 or an AR10 style rifle. The downside is they are heavy uppers, but I actually think it balances the rifle, cause a lot of rifles are front heavy, and the DPMS sickside uppers add weight to the rear. Another downside is there are no handguards that are as high as the rail on the slickside LR308 upper, but I would never add a handguard rail to any rifle I own, but it might be an issue for people that have to have railed handguards. Nonetheless they are cheap uppers, but being cheap does not mean they are not great. They are even made from a higher quaity aluminum. They are made from 7129 aluminum instead of 7075 or 6061.
Lol of course it sounds really grimy. It's because you need to break in the receiver and the bold carrier. You need to grease it out or oil, whichever you prefer.
BRIEFLY, take your accurizing tool and put it in from the opposite (intended) end and smooth out the brand new finish on the inside of those uppers. Put some duct tape on the end to protect the outside of the receiver from an "accidental touch". Stay there too long and you might mess up the tolerances. Hence, the word BRIEFLY. Sometimes I use oil and Emory cloth.
The billet upper could be silent with the bolt carrier. Its more about the machining than the material on that one.
Tease 😂👍🏻 Hahahaha.
I would think the machining for the barrel connection is one of the most important things
Just not that easy for us dummies to check.
??? The threading and countersink for where the barrel extension inserts?
After I started using Frog Lube in my duty AR, I said goodbye to the “cheese grater” sound.
Keeley Leonard until that shit bakes on
Now we're playing😁
If a rifle barrel is advertised as a .556 rifle barrel, is it also understood that it .223 compliant?
I bought a cheap upper and the "1913" rail is incredibly out of spec, we're not talking a few thousandths, I mean REALLY out of spec. I cant even put sights on it. Whatever you do, don't buy davidson defense.
the sound your getting like a grinder inside is the tooling grooves even though minimal but that is the tooling marks inside the only way to get away from that is to polish the inside not that it affects the operation of anything just sounds bad
Run a few magazines through it that will polish it.
Thinking that the least audible friction, may simply fit looser. In a 'goes bang every time ' gun, a bit loose is better.
Kotaboy32 Tactical the difference between the two has to do with material structural strength and how they will fail. A forged upper will fail and fragment usually, while a proper billet one will crack and spread but will not fragment potentially saving you pieces of metal to the hand, arm, face, and/or neck areas. It has been shown that unless structural designs are changed to add reinforcement it wont change the strength of the piece but it will change the way it fails. If you are firing 5.56 or such it is nearly unimportant unless you manage to over charge the case significantly, but it does come into factor when you are shooting much more powerfully loaded rounds, notably .458 socom or .50 beowolf where you have a lot more powder and thinner bolt to lug walls.
Bullshit
Forged aluminum generally refers to material that is ‘forged’ into a specified shape. Forging a lower receiver requires “compressive forces.” In other words it is “hammered” into forging dies to shape the aluminum into the intermediate dimension of the lower receiver. After the aluminum lower is forged into the initial shape, the raw forging is then ‘finished’ on a CNC machine.
Metallurgists agree that a forged piece of aluminum is stronger than cast or billet. The reason being, when the material is shaped under pressure, its ‘grain’ follows the same shape as the part. As a result, the product manufactured is stronger due to the continuous grain characteristics allowed by the forging process.
@@TheRoadhammer379 It can make a stronger piece when the materials are the same but forged uppers as milspec use t7075 which is more brittle and will fragment when overstessed while billet are more often t6061 while weaker is more prone to cracking saving you parts in your flesh.
Kotaboy32 I was wondering if you can do a review on the PTR 9ct MP5 clone and let me know what you think about it in full detail?
I'm going to do a comparison between the akv and the zenith mp5
@@kotaboy32, that's awesome because I'm looking to get a pistol cal. Sub gun
1Forge is stronger than billet ,2 uppers and Lowers are just housing.. the upper houses the blot carrier and the lower houses the the trigger. My three pistol are Anderson lowers and uppers but I hv a ELF trigger In one a timmey trigger In the other and Geissele rapid fire trigger in my last one and 3 chrome Rock River Arms bolt carriers In all three ( highly polished bolt carriers) buy cheep uppers and lowers and buy the best triggers and bolt carriers and buffer and springs and a barrel.
A PSA EPT or Unbranded AR ELG paired with a JP Enterprise kit would be a better "budget" trigger.
You want to know he difference between forged and billet, drop them on a concrete floor and note the difference in time, sound. Also, conduct an impact test on both receivers I the same location, with apx same force, a 3lbs mini sledge hammer will do, note the difference in damage to both lowers, and note the sound on impact. Lastly, take each billet and forged material and shoot it with a 5.56.... note the difference in damage to the two. I won't make an argument to argue with comments. But I will tell ya how to find out why billet is the better choice. Forged material is sometimes reduced wall thickness as well as it being more brittle from the forging process. I'll take a billet process over a forged anyway where impact forces apply. Note that firing your rifle itself, creates shockwaves that ripple thru your rifle. Billet is tougher, not thinner, and not brittle. CNC machine isn't as expensive as it used to be. I'm just a welder, so what would I know. 🥑🥑🥑🥑
Thenks.
If it works it’s a win win! Thanks for your time 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I want to see X-RING run the budget build head to head against KB and Isyour6covered running the hot shot rig and see what the scores look like.
You should run it one shot every second (not simulated full auto) until failure and see which one lasts longer, every thousand rounds do a five shot accuracy test. Dont let the gun cool down in between shots, or mag changes, thats really important. Record it all with out edits and post the results. Thats the range test i wanna see. It will probably take a shit ton of ammo, and mags, and you would need to enlist some help, so you guys could take breaks, while the someone else kept the fun running. POF did something similar but they never checked accuracy. And there gun was not competing against anything.
most receivers except those who make their own are anchor harvey anyways .
Nope, in my early Air Force days, we used M16s with NO forward assist do-dad. Just like Eugene Stoner designed it.
Cool series, thanks much.
Kenneth G Maiden My M-16 doesn't have a forward assist and has never needed one. More people blow up AR-15's using a forward assist. It is common for reloaded ammo (I don't use re-manufactured ammo) to have either a squib load or a projectile pull from the case leaving it the chamber. Shooter uses the forward assist to force the next round into the chamber and pulls the trigger! Boom........
@@ckim6400 Stoner fought against this mod. Chrome and powder change solved many problems. Oh, and that little scallop on the side of the carrier, that was the forward assist.
@@ibthumper2 Yup! If it needs more than a nudge with the thumb the problem will only get worse with a forward assist. And if it won't close using the charging handle time to find out why...
Ha, that means you're as old as I am.
@@kentuckyjustice1408 well, I was on the dirt design team back in the day. LOL LOL
I see some people run their ar15 without a captured buffer spring detent, because they can break off and jam the trigger. Is this something to worry about? Or just buy a JP enterprise captured buffer system?
In all the tears of this,I have never seen this happen. My guess is it's a different problem to start with like the receiver extension not turned in far enough to hold the detent down correctly or something to that effect.
This could become a real issue in the field if you had to break the rifle open for any reason.
What are you people doing to your AR's where the slim differences between Forged and Billet receivers will make a difference? Like, You taking your AR to Jupiter and never taking care of it on full auto fighting against the Covenant while using is as a shovel, pole vaulting pole, and hammer?
Love the shirt...