To run on methanol you have to inject much more fuel. Methanol has a stoichiometric afr of 6.4. Gasoline in 14.7. You had to modify your injection map instead the ignition map.
To switch from gasoline to alcohol you have to increase fuel flow a LOT. That's why you went lean. Not enough fuel flow to run alcohol. Timing has nothing to do with it. Edit to add: The fuel increase is not just a little. It's huge, like twice the amount of fuel flow is needed. If your car has 600cc injectors, you would want to toss in 1000cc - 1200cc injectors to run alcohol. Without swapping to larger injectors, you probably would be able to get it to idle and run part throttle by richening the HELL out of it, but eventually you would run out of injector to run it full throttle or anything close.
We didn’t want to try and MAKE the car run on the Nitro. That’s how you send rods through the block lol. We will adjust timing and fuel in a future video though!
@@NoviceGarage yeah and just dumping methanol in an engine tuned to run on gas is how you melt a piston! It takes something like 3 times as much fuel when running just alcohol im not sure if quite as much with nitro methane mixed in
Nitromethane will make your engine run very, very lean as it's used to bring O2 to the mix and improve nitro engine performance (they don't breathe very easily) but the computer can easily pick it up and adjust most of the times. It does run similar to ethanol but is much more corrosive and will eat through the cylinder oil coating, the rings, seals,...
The computer will NEVER "pick it up and adjust it most of the time". The A/F ratio between gasoline and nitro is SO far off, that the ECU in a gasoline car would NEVER even come CLOSE to getting it right.
When you're pouring from those cans, turn it the other way around (with the opening at the top). That way it doesn't gulp air and you avoid almost all of the spillage.
Moonshine it. Also for shits and giggles, run it on hydrogen gas. Disconnect the fuel pump relay, run the gas line behind the MAF into the intake manifold, and (its been a long time, so I dont exactly remember if its a timing adv) advance the timing a bit.
Cool video. Tip: When pouring from those cans, turn the can the other way so the nozzle is at the top of the can, not the bottom. It'll pour much smoother and less spillage.
Just watched your video... some crazy stuff. Tip from an old timer... when pouring from a square container make sure pour spout is at the very top. It won't gurgle to get air into contain. Spin can 180 degrees so pour spout is highest point.
In drag racing,fuel cars run nitro.It used to be a mix with methanol,but now it's almost straight nitro. If you watch a fuel car being started,you'll see them squirt some liquid into the blower before they start it. They are squirting gas into it to start it because the nitro doesn't burn hot enough to start it,but once the engine is running it's crazy. If you haven't gone to the drag races with fuel cars,you should go. A fuel car running has to be felt as well as heard. By the way,don't get nitro on your paint,it'll remove it.
They use 93 octane fuel. or Methanol. whatever you feel like using. they do that not because of what M poole said they do it because if you start an engine on 85% it will blow the engine apart like a bomb! Pro fuel cars in the NHRA are mandated to 85%.
Everclear would essentially be the same thing as running E85 but without the 15% gas. Only difference is you'd be paying liquor tax on the grain alcohol that comes in a Everclear bottle, It's pretty much the same s*** they mix with gas to make E85.
yeah hydrazine will definitly blow shit up or kill you, people back in the old old top fuel days used it and its send people in the crowd to the hospital from the fumes alone
My guess is that it ran lean due to the ethanol! I only say that because I know running e85 requires 50% (give or take) more fuel to get the same desired afr. It was fun watching this. Props for being so brave with your project car lol
Not a good idea, cars back then we're so low power it wouldn't hurt them for short periods, but in today's high compression high hp engines it would cause catastrophic failure pretty quickly
Moonshine from back in the day was basically 95% ethanol before it was cut for distribution... It would be like running a car on E85.. As long as it's tuned for it, it would run fine but it would need more fuel since ethanol burns faster than gasoline. And for the record... it would work better in high compression engines due to the higher octane rating of ethanol (100-113 octane depending on your reference)
@@DerekCallenderethanol burns faster? I don't think so because e85 is higher octane and the higher octane is the fuels ability to avoid early detination right?
Hale Cooley Correct. The higher octane of E85 is what allows one to run more ignition timing without detonation. However, higher octane does not mean slower burn. Ethanol burns at a much faster rate than gasoline, which is why factory E85 vehicles have larger injectors and better fuel pumps in order to supply a sufficient amount of fuel.
Well fellas, alcohol cars require a much richer mixture/lots more fuel. Even with nitro you would probably have to increase the mixture 40% or more to make it run. Look into the bug-catcher on a nitro or alcohol funny car and you will see streams of fuel the size of your finger shooting into the engine. Put lots more fuel in the engine. Also, because alcohol runs a lot cooler, the compression ratios are typically much higher, like 14:1.... Not much you can do about that.
The 40:1 is for like a 1/5th scale two stroke (basically a chain saw) or Cox plane engine. Nitro methane is very corrosive, I usually use 33% and oil the cylinder after runs it's brutal on aluminum and coated metals.
It's essentially Top fuel dragster fuel with a high oil content. Caster oil to be exact. I use it all the time in my rc planes. The nitromethane aids igniton while the methanol is well, commonly used for drag or race fuel. RCs use a glow plug to ignite the fuel much like diesels. You should have a spike in HP if tuned well and use a low oil mix. They make it with just synth oil and no caster if you look around/ask. Caster doesn't burn well and any unburnt caster will come straight out the exhaust and should give a real gray-blue smoke like mad once your header gets hot enough.
I agree. IIRC nitro burns (expands) faster than gasoline so I believe the car would’ve ran a little better with some retarded timing. Like your experiments though!
@@kimcheefists It is a bit like ethanol too. Faster flame front than petrol but also much more knock resistant. This means in boost you can get away with more timing but when off boost you probably need to pull a little timing for best output. Running on nitromethane needs a lot more fuel...
No I’ve been pulling garden tractors for years and always ran nitro methanol mix and have always ran 28-30 degrees advance timing and that’s where it has run best at
Flip the can around. Have the fill hole on the top so air can circulate, Gets better flow and splash less. Also, should have tuned the car to run E85 when using the RC Nitro fuel, should work better. Also you can buy RC fuel as high as 40% nitro
I've done this on a few vehicles. It gets 'interesting' to say the least.It depends on what % you use. I had a run away engine once. Also used the NM on mopeds and scooters.
Try hooking a propane line to the fuel rail and see if the injectors will control the flow of propane gas well enough to make the motor run. We know the motor can be ran safely on propane but that is generally through a regulator on the air intake so if the fuel rail can handle the pressure it would cause an extreme cooling effect as the fuel is sprayed into the intake which would make even more power. Interesting test at least, and could have real world benefits as well.
Davis King it would probably work for a few minutes but the propane would freeze the injectors fairly quickly.. you can run anything on propane with a simple run to Home Depot.. lol years ago before i diesel swapped my old f100 it had a 360 v8 in it.. the fuel pump took a dump and i had to special order one.. had to get to work so i just rigged my bbq propane tank with some odds n ends n ran it for 3 days with a ball valve in the cab.. probably dangerous but meh YOLO
The point of trying these different fuels and stuff is to see if what we think will probably happen actually does. I know the project will be far more involved if you want to leave it that way because of things like the fuel return and stuff, but these guys are just trying it out to see what happens and I thought it would be interesting to see if the injectors can control the propane. That's all.
Davis King they probably could, would likely leak though due to the fuel being a gas instead of a liquid but should definitely cycle a few times before freezing up the injectors. Much like those propane/LPG/CNG powered commercial trucks that run with ice on the fuel lines.
Flip the bottle and liquid charge it. You could probably use some refrigerant gauges to make the hookup and monitor pressures. Wrap it with 12v heat tape if that exist.
The problem with the fuel return off the rail could probably be solved by simply plugging it so that it can't return any of the propane to the fuel tank. The reason for the fuel return on a gasoline system is to keep the fuel pump cool by allowing it to pump fuel all the time and when vacuum is cut off under hard throttle it allows the regulator to shut which supplies full pressure to the rail. Since the propane is under pressure already there is no need for a pump and you could adjust the pulse of the injectors to compensate for the pressure as long as they will close tight enough to stop the propane completely. I think I am going to try this myself with an old motor just to see what happens but I don't have video equipment or a channel to post the results which is why I suggested it to these guys.
I knew that 40:1 would work, even 20:1 would have worked...I've got a gasoline powered 5th scale RC that runs 20:1 Gasoline/oil mixture and I had it in a labeled gas can but one day my car was so low on gas that it couldn't even make it to the gas station (fuel gauge works when it wants to) and all that I had on hand was the gas for my RC which was 20:1 mixture, I knew it wasn't the best idea to put that in the car, but just needed it to get to the gas station so I could put more gasoline in. It worked just fine.
Bryan Usa grain alcohol has less than 1% water in it. It’s 99.7% pure alcohol. Everclear is as close as you could get to 100%. Pure alcohol is very dangerous to handle so it’s not easily available.
You can get 99.99% isopropyl alcohol from lab supplies or Amazon, that would probably work. Would also probably dry out all your neoprene seals as well...
have you guys ever tried white lightning - alcohol? I just found your channel, so if you HAVE, I never saw the episode maybe turpentine ... or mineral spirits? - (paint thinner used in oil painting) thank you for being open minded, and trying different fuels in that little white Miata liked, and subbed :)
Should have added double the amount of fuel in with bigger injectors or a tune. Since its mainly methonol you need to add double the amount of fuel to make up the same amount of power as normal petrol needed to run the engine. Thats most of the time just to get it running then you fine tune. From experience lets say you run 400cc injectors with unleaded petrol and then e85 you would usually need around 800cc injectors. Also your fuel lines might be damaged or injector o rings because of how corrosive the methanol and nitromethane is.
Just from an old timer, NOTE: When pouring in fuel or whatever, turn the gallon container sideways and it will pour in more easily and not splash near as much. Which I noticed your friend did.
If you add a second tank about 3 gallons put a splitter in the line going to the engine you would not have to drain your tank every time just put the stuff you are using in the new tank
The only main reason this stuff is used in top fuel dragsters is just to make a cool looking flame come out of the exhaust, also this stuff is very similar to acetone just won’t ruin plastic gas tanks
Huh? You couldn't be MORE incorrect... Nitro is an extremely oxygenated fuel, and carries WAY more oxygen into the engine along with the air, and allows MUCH more fuel to be injected into the engine that will burn along with all that extra oxygen. More fuel, more oxygen=more power. It's NOT "just for a cool flame". 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
G XIONG...just the fact that something is "super" in your world, places you in a not so favourable category for smarts...OP is 100% correct...sadly you are not !!
@@jamesellis5445 Seems like your smarts didn't understand sarcasm. And if ya watched their other videos, the ones that they keep referring to, ya would probably understand, but like it matters anyhow.
3:48 Oh man, you guys don't know how good you get it. Over here in the UK, I have to pay the equivalent of $70 to fill an 11 gallon tank with regular unleaded.
Different fuels have a different stoichiometric values so you should have looked into the afrs before anything else. Try to learn more about tuning EFI. Just for entertainment purposes.
@@MrConnerhg most certainly. Target afr value is the first thing I look up before tuning. I'm just assuming since it's like methanol, that it would need a lot more fuel and afrs in the 8:1ish area
I feel like you guys should have done a lil more reading on the nitro, its only 20% so you're not dealing with allot of nitro, you could have thrown allot more fuel into the table as its mostly alcohol in the fuel and she would have ran allot better.
With the nitro fuel you should have adjusted your fuel map to push more volume and ramped your ignition advance much farther. The methanol acts as an oxygenator which is why your afr was so lean. It's also not prone to preignition or detonation
I did this once a long time ago with my go kart. It had been sitting for awhile and I was using nitro for starting fluid. It reved like crazy so 🤔 I mixed it bout 2/1. It was awesome till it cooked all the oil and seized 😂
You need 62% more jetting or larger injectors in order for methanol/nitro mix to burn properly. BTW gasoline burns at 22,000 lbs. Per square inch and nitromethane burns at 200,000 lbs.per square inch. For comparison dynamite also exerts 22,000 per square inch.
It does, it has to be warmed up first, it's almost the same system how RC cars work except it can get way hotter If you've heard of runaway diesels, it's caused by an oil leak in combination with the high compression ratio of diesels Petrol is super flamable unlike diesel and it's possible to run petrol in diesel engines and not the other way around (diesel will "hydrolock" petrol engines)
My 7.3 idi ford runs on whatever i dump in the tank lol.. it’ll burn this shit all day long.. it loves used motor oil the best... cut with 15% regular unleaded gasoline..
oziboy ozi 881k miles on it, 7 years burning anything and everything and still hauls my 26 foot boat just fine.. boat and trailer probably weigh about 8500-9,000 lbs combined.. truckers have been doing it for years.. my grandfather used to change the oil on his peterbuilt and dump the oil in the tank just like that still hot n all.. the truck didn’t care.. it just ran.. now that won’t work on the new efi trucks..
Oil will make the gas more likely to detonate. Hence why people get oil catch cans so I wouldn't risk advancing timing unless your going up in octane. You should learn a little more about tuning, just for internaiment purposes.
The oil used in nitro fuel and in 2 stroke fuel is very thin, and it does not increase risk of detonation like regular motor oil. 2 stroke oil helps rotary engines run better if they are heavily modified.
Pour about four pints of Berryman's Chemtool in your tank! I did that when I was in High School and my car ran great on it. But that was a '64 Dodge Polara 500 with a 383 engine. BTW, be careful, it will take paint off.
Gr8 Vids guys! Def shouldve added more fuel, then play w/ timing... Not sure what stoich is for nitro! whoa! Also, what tuner software are you using? Can't find name of it in any vids... Thnx!
Yea more than 50% of that is just tax. it's getting down right ridiculous here in nz at the mo. Up to $2.50 per liter for 91octane in some parts of the south island.
Gotta fatten that mess up a LOT. I successfully had a 50cc scooter running on 20% for the exact same reason...FUN.. the only way I could get it to run well enough to move was drill out the jet. Don't know what size injectors you are running there but you may not have been able to pull it off... even with the pulse widths set to insane. That stuff loves to run FAT..
Bro. If you can tune your car.... you totally know how to shut the ignition off. Sooo in theory.... you turning the car over to prove there isn't any gas was kinda pointless. But I guess if it sooths the..... I'll stop there. Lol awesome vid.
Methanol in general if thrown into a gas tuned car need double the amount of fuel. Timing also can be advanced. Rule of thumb or atleast my rule of thumb. When going methanol/nitro mix your injector size must be atleast double engine capacity. 2 litre car =1000cc injector per cylinder.
Ipodstufzz put it in my Tahoe. Ran out of gas one day and it’s all I had to make it to the gas station. I live where the gas stations are few and far between sometimes. Shortly after putting 40:1 truefuel in my truck check engine light comes on and the catalytic converter‘s were never right again. Catalyst below threshold code. Replaced both of them and did a unnecessary upgrade. The Tahoe got shiny new duals that very next day.
I add 1oz of marine grade 2cycle (TC-W3) oil to 5gal of gas in my cars and get better gas milage, they run quieter and at that ratio you see no smoke. Google it theres a few forums that talks about it. It really is a noticeably better fuel economy and bout my cars run quieter with it.
I had my Kawasaki tuned for e85 and ran a whole bottle of seafoam about every other week. The e85 made 7hp and 10 ftlbs over 87 octane and that seafoam definitely added to that according to my seat of the pants dyno
Sweet y'all were at Roy's. I've done this in a rental truck in the 90's, an F150 with 351. We had a few gallons and poured in a gallon of Rich's Brew 15% nitro fuel. Truck did a burnout for three blocks, then started to overheat, and started surging and try to pull itself 😂
Nitromethane does not mix well with Gasoline. Top Fuel Dragsters use a mixture of Nitromethane and Methanol as pure Nitromethane is a lot harder to work with and run.
Lacquer thinner is pretty much old gas without the octane.. ever see an old car sit for 10 years with a full tank of gas? That brown milk that gets drained out is pretty much lacquer thinner..
07:21 Glow engines use a combination of glow plug and compression for ignition. There are RC Diesel engines which only use compression for ignition, but they require ether in their fuel mixture to work
My uncle had a Trans-Am with a Corvette drive train that had two tanks of 4 gallons of nitro methane under the back window used for boost before NOX. I think you need to mix the Nitro Meghan with fuel ahead of the injectors and increase air flow to get any benefit.
@@davelowets Yeah. Some special car that was sold to the public to qualify for some race series or something. Like a dozen sold in Canada. Never saw another one. He always had all sorts of toys no one else had.
Hobby fuel, which is a blend of Nitromethane , alcohol, and caster oil, is designed for combustion through compression and heat...not spark..it doesn't combust well at all in a normal engine.
Nitromethane is 63% oxygen by weight so you’re going to need more than double the fuel flow than petrol otherwise it won’t work. It also runs cool when too lean and cool when rich, it’s completely different to gasoline. A top fuel nitro engine basically has a fire hose worth of fuel flow. You’d be better off running e85 with nitrous
Also... don't listen to people telling you Glow fuel will damage the engine. It takes a little time to corrode anything. If you run it on gasoline straight after, it will flush out all the methanol/nitro and it will be fine. It doesn't corrode that quick. Just make sure to run it on gasoline straight after you've finished with the RC/Glow fuel.
Whats the Nitro content of the fuel?? You need WAY richer AFR's (fueling) with Glow fuel. Its Methanol based! The stoichiometric ratio for methanol is 6.42:1 ! With 20% Nitro it would be like 6.0:1! as opposed to gasoline which is around 14.5:1 You need more than DOUBLE the quantity of injected fuel for it to run at correct afr's. If you don't have a "Methanol mode" on your afr gauge... then just enrich the fuel table until you get like 12.0:1 afr's at full throttle. Even at part-throttle.
Aim for 12.0:1 AFR when using glow fuel. (Unless your AFR gauge has "Methanol mode"... then you want to aim for 5.2:1 afr) If you can switch it to read in "Lambda" (ideal option)... then aim for 0.75 - 0.80 Start out by enriching the entire fuel table by 120% (thats 120% MORE fuel... so thats 2.2 times the amount of gasoline)... then add or subtract fuel until you get the right AFR's/Lambda. Assuming your ignition table is optimally tuned for Gasoline.... subtract a couple of degrees of timing from entire ignition table when running the Glow fuel. If you have a stock ignition system... you might get some misfiring when you put your foot down... as Methanol is harder to ignite than Gasoline. When you convert a Gasoline engine to run on Methanol (or Ethanol, for that matter), you always upgrade the ignition system. But try it out anyway... see how you go.
WTF are you talking about? 12:1 AFR is for gasoline, NOT a Methanol/Nitro fuel. If you ran the engine at a 12:1 A/F ratio with the glow fuel, the engine would be EXTREMELY lean.
The reason he is spilling is because he is pouring with the spout at the bottom. This causes the air to have to surge in and the splashing of the fuel. If he turns the container 90 degrees with the spout on the top the air will not surge in and it will pour normally.
To run on methanol you have to inject much more fuel. Methanol has a stoichiometric afr of 6.4. Gasoline in 14.7. You had to modify your injection map instead the ignition map.
The other issue that can't be ignored is the fact that RC car fuel is 16% oil which is a lot more than 40:1 2 stroke gas which is only 2.5
@@arturos.l.2248 rc fuel is 9% oil
I was waiting for it to sound like a little RC cars engine (!)
🤣🤣🤣
To switch from gasoline to alcohol you have to increase fuel flow a LOT. That's why you went lean. Not enough fuel flow to run alcohol. Timing has nothing to do with it. Edit to add: The fuel increase is not just a little. It's huge, like twice the amount of fuel flow is needed. If your car has 600cc injectors, you would want to toss in 1000cc - 1200cc injectors to run alcohol.
Without swapping to larger injectors, you probably would be able to get it to idle and run part throttle by richening the HELL out of it, but eventually you would run out of injector to run it full throttle or anything close.
If it was running lean, why would you increase timing instead of adding fuel to the fuel table?
We didn’t want to try and MAKE the car run on the Nitro. That’s how you send rods through the block lol. We will adjust timing and fuel in a future video though!
You never said you couldn't tune it to make it run....
Yeah that's why its "novice"
If that was true it would've been a smarter idea to turn up the fuel pressure.
@@NoviceGarage yeah and just dumping methanol in an engine tuned to run on gas is how you melt a piston! It takes something like 3 times as much fuel when running just alcohol im not sure if quite as much with nitro methane mixed in
I usually mix some Nitro in the lawn equipment when they are on their last leg haha
Use ether. I put a hole in a can of quick start then poured the liquid into lawn mower tank ran mint lol
I guess Im pretty off topic but does anyone know a good place to stream new movies online?
@Samson Omar I use Flixzone. You can find it by googling =)
@Kylen Donovan Yea, have been using FlixZone for since april myself =)
@Kylen Donovan Thanks, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I really appreciate it!
Nitromethane will make your engine run very, very lean as it's used to bring O2 to the mix and improve nitro engine performance (they don't breathe very easily) but the computer can easily pick it up and adjust most of the times. It does run similar to ethanol but is much more corrosive and will eat through the cylinder oil coating, the rings, seals,...
The computer will NEVER "pick it up and adjust it most of the time".
The A/F ratio between gasoline and nitro is SO far off, that the ECU in a gasoline car would NEVER even come CLOSE to getting it right.
When you're pouring from those cans, turn it the other way around (with the opening at the top). That way it doesn't gulp air and you avoid almost all of the spillage.
Moonshine it. Also for shits and giggles, run it on hydrogen gas. Disconnect the fuel pump relay, run the gas line behind the MAF into the intake manifold, and (its been a long time, so I dont exactly remember if its a timing adv) advance the timing a bit.
Cool video.
Tip: When pouring from those cans, turn the can the other way so the nozzle is at the top of the can, not the bottom. It'll pour much smoother and less spillage.
Just watched your video... some crazy stuff.
Tip from an old timer... when pouring from a square container make sure pour spout is at the very top. It won't gurgle to get air into contain. Spin can 180 degrees so pour spout is highest point.
the air fuel mix on methanol is totaly different then on gas.
In drag racing,fuel cars run nitro.It used to be a mix with methanol,but now it's almost straight nitro. If you watch a fuel car being started,you'll see them squirt some liquid into the blower before they start it. They are squirting gas into it to start it because the nitro doesn't burn hot enough to start it,but once the engine is running it's crazy. If you haven't gone to the drag races with fuel cars,you should go. A fuel car running has to be felt as well as heard. By the way,don't get nitro on your paint,it'll remove it.
Yes but they squirt methonal into it instead of gas because nitro and gas don't mix well
They use 93 octane fuel. or Methanol. whatever you feel like using. they do that not because of what M poole said they do it because if you start an engine on 85% it will blow the engine apart like a bomb! Pro fuel cars in the NHRA are mandated to 85%.
I certainly won't argue with you. That's just what I had been told,but I have never worked on a fuel car.
Not just drag racing its also in normal racing, or use to be anyways
Nitro brings a tear to my eye.
Honda guy sees video... Honda guy now runs on Nitro RC Fuel 🤣
Man y'all should try some Everclear, Goldengrain, some type of 190 proof alcohol. I've always been curious. Great channel btw!
Its been done on taylor rays channel
Mothballs has nitro in them. A friend ran them with gas. Cannot stop engine if too many and no I do not know what is too many.
e100
Are these guys old enough to buy everclear?
Everclear would essentially be the same thing as running E85 but without the 15% gas. Only difference is you'd be paying liquor tax on the grain alcohol that comes in a Everclear bottle, It's pretty much the same s*** they mix with gas to make E85.
Run hydrazine! Watch green flames instead.... bet you won't!
We made that stuff before at work on accident. It ain't hard to make, but it's known for blowing cars up, that hydrazine don't play.
Its Will give you cancer 100% guaranteed, hydrazine is super dangerous
hydrazine is known by the state of cancer to cause California :D
yeah hydrazine will definitly blow shit up or kill you, people back in the old old top fuel days used it and its send people in the crowd to the hospital from the fumes alone
I would love to see it but the required amount would be just suicidal.
My guess is that it ran lean due to the ethanol! I only say that because I know running e85 requires 50% (give or take) more fuel to get the same desired afr. It was fun watching this. Props for being so brave with your project car lol
What "ethanol"? The contents of R/C nitro fuel consists of Nitromethane, Methanol, and a lubricating oil. NO ethanol in it at all.
Run Moonshie, moonshiners did it back in the 40's. Curious to see how it'd work on a newer car.
Not a good idea, cars back then we're so low power it wouldn't hurt them for short periods, but in today's high compression high hp engines it would cause catastrophic failure pretty quickly
Moonshine from back in the day was basically 95% ethanol before it was cut for distribution... It would be like running a car on E85.. As long as it's tuned for it, it would run fine but it would need more fuel since ethanol burns faster than gasoline.
And for the record... it would work better in high compression engines due to the higher octane rating of ethanol (100-113 octane depending on your reference)
@@DerekCallenderethanol burns faster? I don't think so because e85 is higher octane and the higher octane is the fuels ability to avoid early detination right?
Hale Cooley Correct. The higher octane of E85 is what allows one to run more ignition timing without detonation. However, higher octane does not mean slower burn. Ethanol burns at a much faster rate than gasoline, which is why factory E85 vehicles have larger injectors and better fuel pumps in order to supply a sufficient amount of fuel.
@@DerekCallender Alcohol based fuels run at a richer stoichiometric mixture(8:1 on 100% alcohol vs 14-15:1 on gasoline).
Well fellas, alcohol cars require a much richer mixture/lots more fuel. Even with nitro you would probably have to increase the mixture 40% or more to make it run. Look into the bug-catcher on a nitro or alcohol funny car and you will see streams of fuel the size of your finger shooting into the engine. Put lots more fuel in the engine. Also, because alcohol runs a lot cooler, the compression ratios are typically much higher, like 14:1.... Not much you can do about that.
The 40:1 is for like a 1/5th scale two stroke (basically a chain saw) or Cox plane engine. Nitro methane is very corrosive, I usually use 33% and oil the cylinder after runs it's brutal on aluminum and coated metals.
What do u think about using wd-40 its actually protect against corrosion and clear it too
Traxxas Top Fuel sucks ass... Run a better fuel, and your shit WILL run noticeably better.
It's essentially Top fuel dragster fuel with a high oil content. Caster oil to be exact. I use it all the time in my rc planes. The nitromethane aids igniton while the methanol is well, commonly used for drag or race fuel. RCs use a glow plug to ignite the fuel much like diesels. You should have a spike in HP if tuned well and use a low oil mix. They make it with just synth oil and no caster if you look around/ask. Caster doesn't burn well and any unburnt caster will come straight out the exhaust and should give a real gray-blue smoke like mad once your header gets hot enough.
Dude! You should have pulled timing instead of adding! Maybe then, it would have run better...
I agree. IIRC nitro burns (expands) faster than gasoline so I believe the car would’ve ran a little better with some retarded timing. Like your experiments though!
@@kimcheefists It is a bit like ethanol too. Faster flame front than petrol but also much more knock resistant. This means in boost you can get away with more timing but when off boost you probably need to pull a little timing for best output. Running on nitromethane needs a lot more fuel...
No I’ve been pulling garden tractors for years and always ran nitro methanol mix and have always ran 28-30 degrees advance timing and that’s where it has run best at
Gian Groppa Racing ran**
Gian Groppa Racing gil
Flip the can around. Have the fill hole on the top so air can circulate, Gets better flow and splash less. Also, should have tuned the car to run E85 when using the RC Nitro fuel, should work better. Also you can buy RC fuel as high as 40% nitro
love the vids guys. Subbed!
I've done this on a few vehicles. It gets 'interesting' to say the least.It depends on what % you use. I had a run away engine once. Also used the NM on mopeds and scooters.
Ack, bullshit.... 🙄
Try hooking a propane line to the fuel rail and see if the injectors will control the flow of propane gas well enough to make the motor run. We know the motor can be ran safely on propane but that is generally through a regulator on the air intake so if the fuel rail can handle the pressure it would cause an extreme cooling effect as the fuel is sprayed into the intake which would make even more power. Interesting test at least, and could have real world benefits as well.
Davis King it would probably work for a few minutes but the propane would freeze the injectors fairly quickly.. you can run anything on propane with a simple run to Home Depot.. lol years ago before i diesel swapped my old f100 it had a 360 v8 in it.. the fuel pump took a dump and i had to special order one.. had to get to work so i just rigged my bbq propane tank with some odds n ends n ran it for 3 days with a ball valve in the cab.. probably dangerous but meh YOLO
The point of trying these different fuels and stuff is to see if what we think will probably happen actually does. I know the project will be far more involved if you want to leave it that way because of things like the fuel return and stuff, but these guys are just trying it out to see what happens and I thought it would be interesting to see if the injectors can control the propane. That's all.
Davis King they probably could, would likely leak though due to the fuel being a gas instead of a liquid but should definitely cycle a few times before freezing up the injectors. Much like those propane/LPG/CNG powered commercial trucks that run with ice on the fuel lines.
Flip the bottle and liquid charge it. You could probably use some refrigerant gauges to make the hookup and monitor pressures. Wrap it with 12v heat tape if that exist.
The problem with the fuel return off the rail could probably be solved by simply plugging it so that it can't return any of the propane to the fuel tank. The reason for the fuel return on a gasoline system is to keep the fuel pump cool by allowing it to pump fuel all the time and when vacuum is cut off under hard throttle it allows the regulator to shut which supplies full pressure to the rail. Since the propane is under pressure already there is no need for a pump and you could adjust the pulse of the injectors to compensate for the pressure as long as they will close tight enough to stop the propane completely. I think I am going to try this myself with an old motor just to see what happens but I don't have video equipment or a channel to post the results which is why I suggested it to these guys.
I knew that 40:1 would work, even 20:1 would have worked...I've got a gasoline powered 5th scale RC that runs 20:1 Gasoline/oil mixture and I had it in a labeled gas can but one day my car was so low on gas that it couldn't even make it to the gas station (fuel gauge works when it wants to) and all that I had on hand was the gas for my RC which was 20:1 mixture, I knew it wasn't the best idea to put that in the car, but just needed it to get to the gas station so I could put more gasoline in. It worked just fine.
Try running it on 91 percent rubbing alcohol from like Walgreens or something like that.
Nikolas Tesla yeah. Try 99 percent. 91 would ruin your engine and fuel system
Rubbing alcohol has water in it... you want grain alcohol like everclear..
Mike CorLeoné don't both have water??
Bryan Usa grain alcohol has less than 1% water in it. It’s 99.7% pure alcohol. Everclear is as close as you could get to 100%. Pure alcohol is very dangerous to handle so it’s not easily available.
You can get 99.99% isopropyl alcohol from lab supplies or Amazon, that would probably work. Would also probably dry out all your neoprene seals as well...
have you guys ever tried white lightning - alcohol?
I just found your channel, so if you HAVE, I never saw the episode
maybe turpentine ... or mineral spirits?
- (paint thinner used in oil painting)
thank you for being open minded, and trying different fuels in that little white Miata
liked, and subbed
:)
We haven’t, we have a lot more of these videos on the way!
Please try zippo lighter fluid.
Projectfarm did this it works
Zippo fluid works on old school diesels
Blew my engine up doin this 😂😂
Should have added double the amount of fuel in with bigger injectors or a tune. Since its mainly methonol you need to add double the amount of fuel to make up the same amount of power as normal petrol needed to run the engine. Thats most of the time just to get it running then you fine tune. From experience lets say you run 400cc injectors with unleaded petrol and then e85 you would usually need around 800cc injectors. Also your fuel lines might be damaged or injector o rings because of how corrosive the methanol and nitromethane is.
Just from an old timer, NOTE: When pouring in fuel or whatever, turn the gallon container sideways and it will pour in more easily and not splash near as much. Which I noticed your friend did.
If you add a second tank about 3 gallons put a splitter in the line going to the engine you would not have to drain your tank every time just put the stuff you are using in the new tank
The only main reason this stuff is used in top fuel dragsters is just to make a cool looking flame come out of the exhaust, also this stuff is very similar to acetone just won’t ruin plastic gas tanks
Huh? You couldn't be MORE incorrect...
Nitro is an extremely oxygenated fuel, and carries WAY more oxygen into the engine along with the air, and allows MUCH more fuel to be injected into the engine that will burn along with all that extra oxygen. More fuel, more oxygen=more power.
It's NOT "just for a cool flame". 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
Someone needs teach these kids how to pour from these types of cans without spilling. It's super easy guys!
Michael Richey indeed you are correct sir. Orient the spout so it's at the top, it won't glug glug and dribble everywhere.
100%
But it was super windy...😄
Seems like pouring a 1ft above the funnel would do that. 😯
G XIONG...just the fact that something is "super" in your world, places you in a not so favourable category for smarts...OP is 100% correct...sadly you are not !!
@@jamesellis5445 Seems like your smarts didn't understand sarcasm.
And if ya watched their other videos, the ones that they keep referring to, ya would probably understand, but like it matters anyhow.
3:48 Oh man, you guys don't know how good you get it. Over here in the UK, I have to pay the equivalent of $70 to fill an 11 gallon tank with regular unleaded.
Subbed and liked because you guys actually listened to the viewer and advanced the timing like you're supposed to 🤙🤙
Different fuels have a different stoichiometric values so you should have looked into the afrs before anything else. Try to learn more about tuning EFI. Just for entertainment purposes.
@@MrConnerhg most certainly. Target afr value is the first thing I look up before tuning. I'm just assuming since it's like methanol, that it would need a lot more fuel and afrs in the 8:1ish area
This is a good read on stoichemetric rating for different fuels :) www.topspeedparts.com/blogs/news/fuel-comparision
Stoich for that mix is much lower. Needed way more fuel or duty cycle instead of timing.
Will it work in a diesel car mixed with a tank of diesel
I feel like you guys should have done a lil more reading on the nitro, its only 20% so you're not dealing with allot of nitro, you could have thrown allot more fuel into the table as its mostly alcohol in the fuel and she would have ran allot better.
yes, someone else who understands!!
yep should have just upped the required fuel number in megasquirt.
His injectors proly arent big enough to run enough alcohol
100% duty cycle at peak torque/power :)
I watch this and love my Miata even more.... damn thing is indestructible
If your guage said it was lean. Why are you messing with the ignition table, you should have added more fuel.
Then that would defeat the name of the channels. It isn't called "Pro" Garage.
With the nitro fuel you should have adjusted your fuel map to push more volume and ramped your ignition advance much farther. The methanol acts as an oxygenator which is why your afr was so lean. It's also not prone to preignition or detonation
The fuck it's NOT... Detonation with nitro is just as real as it is with gasoline.
Run it on the strongest hootch you can find!
Run it on everything they've tried to Run it on ever.
I did this once a long time ago with my go kart. It had been sitting for awhile and I was using nitro for starting fluid. It reved like crazy so 🤔 I mixed it bout 2/1. It was awesome till it cooked all the oil and seized 😂
Go to a dirt bike store and purchase VP C12 racing fuel. 190 Octane fuel. See what happens if your vehicle runs off that.
C12 is not 190 octane. Its 112 octane.
@@chadloskota9015 O well it'll work.
wildest Mormon Holy crap!!!! 190 octane?!!!!!!!
Pump gas is normally perfect Stoichometric efficient at 14.7:1. Nitro is 2:1. You needed more fuel.
80% Menthol lol
You need 62% more jetting or larger injectors in order for methanol/nitro mix to burn properly. BTW gasoline burns at 22,000 lbs. Per square inch and nitromethane burns at 200,000 lbs.per square inch. For comparison dynamite also exerts 22,000 per square inch.
might wanna put that in a diesel instead
there's oil mixed in it, diesel can burn oil no problem
It does, it has to be warmed up first, it's almost the same system how RC cars work except it can get way hotter
If you've heard of runaway diesels, it's caused by an oil leak in combination with the high compression ratio of diesels
Petrol is super flamable unlike diesel and it's possible to run petrol in diesel engines and not the other way around (diesel will "hydrolock" petrol engines)
My 7.3 idi ford runs on whatever i dump in the tank lol.. it’ll burn this shit all day long.. it loves used motor oil the best... cut with 15% regular unleaded gasoline..
@@mikecorleone6797 yeah smart move to use the engine while it lasts lmao
oziboy ozi 881k miles on it, 7 years burning anything and everything and still hauls my 26 foot boat just fine.. boat and trailer probably weigh about 8500-9,000 lbs combined.. truckers have been doing it for years.. my grandfather used to change the oil on his peterbuilt and dump the oil in the tank just like that still hot n all.. the truck didn’t care.. it just ran.. now that won’t work on the new efi trucks..
@@mikecorleone6797 DAMN! I bet a 300D turbodiesel mercedes could rock oil like that too
when pouring from a container like that, turn it on it's side so the nozzle is near the top, it'll make it so it pours smoothly and doesn't glug.
run the car on everclear
If you rotate the can 1/4 turn so that the widest side is top and bottom while pouring it pours smoother...less spillage
Does anyone remember the master blaster video game ????? It was pretty cool
You mean math blaster?
If you turn the can around and pour with the opening at the top it can get air and won't spill allover your car or outside the funnel.
Oil will make the gas more likely to detonate. Hence why people get oil catch cans so I wouldn't risk advancing timing unless your going up in octane. You should learn a little more about tuning, just for internaiment purposes.
Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying the fuck out of these vids
The oil used in nitro fuel and in 2 stroke fuel is very thin, and it does not increase risk of detonation like regular motor oil. 2 stroke oil helps rotary engines run better if they are heavily modified.
Pour about four pints of Berryman's Chemtool in your tank! I did that when I was in High School and my car ran great on it. But that was a '64 Dodge Polara 500 with a 383 engine. BTW, be careful, it will take paint off.
filling up the miata with lighter fluid is the next title
Gr8 Vids guys! Def shouldve added more fuel, then play w/ timing... Not sure what stoich is for nitro! whoa! Also, what tuner software are you using? Can't find name of it in any vids... Thnx!
Thanks! We use tuner studio.
Thnx for response! Thought yiour laptop screen looked familiar... Already have it! Appreciate it! Keep up gr8 vids...
Haha it cost me $132 last time I filled my car up. New Zealand fuel is rough bro. Just a little toyota too..
Yea more than 50% of that is just tax. it's getting down right ridiculous here in nz at the mo. Up to $2.50 per liter for 91octane in some parts of the south island.
bloody hell
To save a step and some time, use a slightly longer fuel line to pump the fuel straight into the other vehicle. :)
I thought Nitro RC fuel was NITRO and CASTOR OIL the ratio was for lubrication
Gotta fatten that mess up a LOT. I successfully had a 50cc scooter running on 20% for the exact same reason...FUN.. the only way I could get it to run well enough to move was drill out the jet. Don't know what size injectors you are running there but you may not have been able to pull it off... even with the pulse widths set to insane. That stuff loves to run FAT..
SMH..So you guys pulled timing for Octane booster but added timing for Nitro??? lol..That's backwards lol
Yeah these clowns have no idea what they're doing.
Well they aren't called "Pro"garage . lol
Bro. If you can tune your car.... you totally know how to shut the ignition off. Sooo in theory.... you turning the car over to prove there isn't any gas was kinda pointless. But I guess if it sooths the..... I'll stop there. Lol awesome vid.
40 bucks to fill the tank🤔..thats cheap especially for 91+ octane 🤣
90+ euros for a tank of unleaded
Methanol in general if thrown into a gas tuned car need double the amount of fuel. Timing also can be advanced. Rule of thumb or atleast my rule of thumb. When going methanol/nitro mix your injector size must be atleast double engine capacity. 2 litre car =1000cc injector per cylinder.
Running great until the oil clogs your cat. Ask me how I know.
Lol
how do you know?
Ipodstufzz put it in my Tahoe. Ran out of gas one day and it’s all I had to make it to the gas station. I live where the gas stations are few and far between sometimes. Shortly after putting 40:1 truefuel in my truck check engine light comes on and the catalytic converter‘s were never right again. Catalyst below threshold code. Replaced both of them and did a unnecessary upgrade. The Tahoe got shiny new duals that very next day.
Lies. That short run of 40 to 1 mix would not cause immediate cat failure.
thefordmaniac you’re full of shit. Especially on a older vehicle.
I add 1oz of marine grade 2cycle (TC-W3) oil to 5gal of gas in my cars and get better gas milage, they run quieter and at that ratio you see no smoke. Google it theres a few forums that talks about it. It really is a noticeably better fuel economy and bout my cars run quieter with it.
"It smells like water"
Nikolas Tesla Fuck you
Did you increase the overall fuel trim 30% at least? Takes a lot of nitro fuel volume compared to gasoline.
The real question is does it 2 step on 20% nitro.
bentboybbz lmaooo
Yo use pure alcohol like the stuff restaurants use for their flaming drinks and food
run it on Seafoam
I had my Kawasaki tuned for e85 and ran a whole bottle of seafoam about every other week. The e85 made 7hp and 10 ftlbs over 87 octane and that seafoam definitely added to that according to my seat of the pants dyno
Sweet y'all were at Roy's. I've done this in a rental truck in the 90's, an F150 with 351. We had a few gallons and poured in a gallon of Rich's Brew 15% nitro fuel. Truck did a burnout for three blocks, then started to overheat, and started surging and try to pull itself 😂
I should add an edit "we had a few gallons (of gas in the tank left) and poured in a gallon of 25% nitro fuel.
Put moonshine in the car
Brennon Stamper he should put used oil
awesome yellow-band watch, which model is it? Thanks
All that is is 2 stroke gas. Of course it’ll run try 20 or 30% nitro rev fuel🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Hunter Cox it’s actually a mix of methanol nitromethane and oil
Cole Carlson no the one he used isn’t
You guys should do a video on how little gas a car needs to turn over!
Put nitromethane 100% in racing gas
Nitromethane does not mix well with Gasoline. Top Fuel Dragsters use a mixture of Nitromethane and Methanol as pure Nitromethane is a lot harder to work with and run.
@@stigrabbid589 inject it in the inlet manifold
when you are pouring fule out of the can keep the can hole uppermost. You had it in it's lowest. So now you can't blame the wind. Try it. Cheers
VP110 or Methanol VP race fuel.
Nice to see if you plugged the cat. Temps before and after be good on exhaust
Lacquer thinner
Paint gun wash
Yes
Lacquer thinner is pretty much old gas without the octane.. ever see an old car sit for 10 years with a full tank of gas? That brown milk that gets drained out is pretty much lacquer thinner..
07:21 Glow engines use a combination of glow plug and compression for ignition. There are RC Diesel engines which only use compression for ignition, but they require ether in their fuel mixture to work
2 one to like the video ,woo hoo😎😁
My uncle had a Trans-Am with a Corvette drive train that had two tanks of 4 gallons of nitro methane under the back window used for boost before NOX. I think you need to mix the Nitro Meghan with fuel ahead of the injectors and increase air flow to get any benefit.
No, your "uncle" did not... That's not even possible. C'mon, man.. 🙄
@@davelowets Yeah. Some special car that was sold to the public to qualify for some race series or something. Like a dozen sold in Canada. Never saw another one. He always had all sorts of toys no one else had.
@@Triggered-RC 😆 Nope
@@davelowets OK. I guess you grew up poor. LOLZ
Do actual jet fuel
Kolby Kamerick
That’s like 6-$700 a gallon
Connoisseur Of Cars Tig Ol Bitties & VJ’s doubt it
Jet fuel is similar to diesel pretty much like kerosene So that will not work
We Use to use jet a in our drill rigs with Kubota engines. Ran hotter and had more power under boost.
@@connoisseuroftigolbitts more like 7 or 8 dollars a gallon lol
Lol, puts fuel made for toy cars,into a toy car
Hobby fuel, which is a blend of Nitromethane , alcohol, and caster oil, is designed for combustion through compression and heat...not spark..it doesn't combust well at all in a normal engine.
Nitromethane is 63% oxygen by weight so you’re going to need more than double the fuel flow than petrol otherwise it won’t work. It also runs cool when too lean and cool when rich, it’s completely different to gasoline. A top fuel nitro engine basically has a fire hose worth of fuel flow. You’d be better off running e85 with nitrous
be neat if u guys could show the o2 sensor reading and the computer data live as it runs.
How about isopropanol (Isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol) if your fuel lines are able to handle it?
People after they watch fast and furious. 😂😂 sounds like my Honda lawnmower 😂😂😂😂
Also... don't listen to people telling you Glow fuel will damage the engine. It takes a little time to corrode anything. If you run it on gasoline straight after, it will flush out all the methanol/nitro and it will be fine. It doesn't corrode that quick. Just make sure to run it on gasoline straight after you've finished with the RC/Glow fuel.
Whats the Nitro content of the fuel?? You need WAY richer AFR's (fueling) with Glow fuel. Its Methanol based! The stoichiometric ratio for methanol is 6.42:1 ! With 20% Nitro it would be like 6.0:1! as opposed to gasoline which is around 14.5:1 You need more than DOUBLE the quantity of injected fuel for it to run at correct afr's. If you don't have a "Methanol mode" on your afr gauge... then just enrich the fuel table until you get like 12.0:1 afr's at full throttle. Even at part-throttle.
Aim for 12.0:1 AFR when using glow fuel. (Unless your AFR gauge has "Methanol mode"... then you want to aim for 5.2:1 afr) If you can switch it to read in "Lambda" (ideal option)... then aim for 0.75 - 0.80
Start out by enriching the entire fuel table by 120% (thats 120% MORE fuel... so thats 2.2 times the amount of gasoline)... then add or subtract fuel until you get the right AFR's/Lambda. Assuming your ignition table is optimally tuned for Gasoline.... subtract a couple of degrees of timing from entire ignition table when running the Glow fuel. If you have a stock ignition system... you might get some misfiring when you put your foot down... as Methanol is harder to ignite than Gasoline. When you convert a Gasoline engine to run on Methanol (or Ethanol, for that matter), you always upgrade the ignition system. But try it out anyway... see how you go.
WTF are you talking about? 12:1 AFR is for gasoline, NOT a Methanol/Nitro fuel. If you ran the engine at a 12:1 A/F ratio with the glow fuel, the engine would be EXTREMELY lean.
@@davelowets maybe you should learn to read pal. Or learn how AFR gauges work.
What software /hardware you using to use the laptop to tune?
The reason he is spilling is because he is pouring with the spout at the bottom. This causes the air to have to surge in and the splashing of the fuel.
If he turns the container 90 degrees with the spout on the top the air will not surge in and it will pour normally.
You should pour with the opening on the top so you get a smooth, continuous pour.
Gabe needs to wear more merch, i see the hat) Zach always has merch on hats and tees