Great test, appreciate the number of bikes assembled, and the rigor involved. Amflow looks promising! Sad to hear about the Kenevo being unwieldy, cause the only e-bikes that appeal to me are the 170mm+ mini dirt bikes.
Love the dialogue. Puts Pinkbike to shame. Thoughtful objecive and subjective opinions (and when you do, your personal opinions are well prefaced) while being non-snobbish. PB on the other hand have over corrected and form most of their reviews nit-picking things from personal preference rather than being mostly objective like you guys have done here. Well done!
I love both. I know which riders at PB fit my style of riding more, so I follow them more closely. One constructive criticism I'd offer to the LW crew (if they care) is to get to the point a little more quickly. I find at times the conversation can meander at times and retread the same info. Otherwise, great work on this channel.
@@WilliamrikerNCC1701 The only balanced technical reviewer on PB is Seb Stott who has the combination of being an experimental physicist + not in the PNW bubble (and subsequently NOT reviewing everything from the perspective of someone riding in MTB nirvana all you can eat buffet of grip and elevation).
Great roundup, I’m on a heckler sl in southern utah and agree with everything you stated. The mezzer pro up front paired with the push sv8 out back really makes this bike come alive.
I have the YT decoy SN. I’ve had it for a couple months. It is the most confidence inspiring bike I’ve ever ridden. I mainly write it on rough double black diamonds in the PNW and it feels like it was absolutely built for that. Precise technical writing with big features, high speeds, rough trails. It loves to jump. Very poppy but still very good in serious technical situations. I have the core 2, I’m 6 feet tall And I ride the size large and I love the sizing. I get about 3300 feet on a full charge in boost mode. 185 pounds.
Best review ever! Such a difficult decision and so well done! Wow....e-bikes have a long way to go with the lead of DJI I do have to say, I have the Heckler SL. Its' a sweet handling bike. Fun and secure. 1750 miles on the Fazua motor. No problems. But I spin, spin, spin.....no mashing of the peddles and I ride in cool to cold temperatures.
Thanks for the kind words! It was a really stressful project and we’re glad it’s over! 🤯Hopefully enjoyed by many. Thanks for sharing feedback on the Heckler SL.
Nice work team. Like how you've wrapped this all up. Loads of relevant and useful info as always. I would honestly never buy a bike unless you people had reviewed it first.
So, how does the Transition Relay stack up against these "new" contenders, as the 2023 SL emtb of the year? Not comparing it to these seems a glaring oversight, though I appreciate what you guys do. Comments/commentary please?
We really hoped Transition was going to get us one, sadly they didn’t. Good point though, we should have compared though half the testers didn’t ride it. For those who have, it’s still very much a contender and we’d still highly recommend it.
I would not recommend Relay because the range is too limiting, and it does not offer any range extender. I would get SL EMTB with 600+ wh battery. If you really want lighter bike with smaller battery, then make sure you have an option for range extender.
@@BikeIntelligencerThe battery is so heavy and carrying it in a backpack isn’t really something you want to do. My friend tried it with his Relay and it was bad.
Thanks for your reviews! Helped confirm that I made the right choice for my wife and her new Ari Nebo Peak. She is only hitting trails, and the weight of all other eMTB's was too much for her to manage. The power of the Ari, near silent drive, ease of use to ride, 40 lbs weight, and sub $6k price was too much to pass on. Love hearing about these other bikes. As a 49 yr old "analogue" biker, man some of these are super tempting. Thanks @The Loam Wolf!
Thank you guys. Look forward to these roundups. Very useful info. I appreciate how you include different rider types in your evaluations. I'm much more like a Travis than a Robert.
Best shootout review this year! Just got my Nebo peak and loving it. Still getting use to the 60nm since I also own a full fatty Decoy but the weight difference on that Nebo is top notch. Love the videos, great work guys.
Bummer you guys didn’t get along with the YT. I have that bike and changed the rear shock to coil and I absolutely love it. Had the Specialized KSL v1 before and I agree that it’s more composed on the chunk but the YT is very confidence inspiring. Thanks for the reviews, loved watching. 🤙🏻
Hey thanks for sharing. It's not that we didn't get along with it, it's a good bike and Robert absolutely loved the higher spec model he rode! It's just that when you start hopping quickly from one bike to another, you can start to pick up on little differences and they become more pronounced as you repeat trails over and over and certain sections.
Awesome reviews-thanks! I am buying the Amflow (but the base model PL rather than the PL Pro) - I was hoping you might be able to please provide some detail on the stem/bar changes you made that improved the handling (mentioned around the 8.15 min mark)? That would be super helpful. cheers
I picked up my Amflow PL Wednesday. It's awesome value compared to the competition. I've swapped out my bars and Stem to One Up (carbon) also. Swapped out the wheels for zipp moto, Reverb Axs 170mm Dropper, Xx T Type shod with Magic Mary and Big Betty tyres. Code Ultimate Stealth brakes. Ergon grips and saddle. Killer build now. Bike is simply flipping awesome. Buy one if you get hold of one 👌👍
Great review, Loam Wolf team! I appreciate the detailed breakdown of the Running Y Resort's location and terrain-it helps bring your feedback to life and lets us compare it to our hometown trails. Ultimately, what matters is how a bike feels to ride-confidence and fun being the ultimate deciders. Awesome to see so much agreement on the Heckler SL being *that* bike! But here’s a thought: if the Heckler SL had the DJI Avinox drive system, would it be a clear winner? Would love to hear your take!
Thanks for the kind words Dan. Appreciate the feedback and perspective. To attempt to answer your question…if the Heckler SL had the Avinox would it be best? Well, that depends, would any other bike have that drive unit too? If the Trek Slash had it, or the Kenevo SL, or any other well rounded bike had it, that would likely make it a winner.
Great reviews you guys are doing ! One thing I want to point out. The Rise has Fox Factory suspension, the Performance Elite stuff on the Heckler is the same as Factory. The Yt has the cheap Rockshox suspension, but they offer it with great spec also. That is just not a fair comparison in my opinion. Recently I upgraded my Kenevo Expert to Fox Factory and it is like a completely different bike! So yeah its no wonder Robert liked the bike so much better than you guys, as his test bike was the high spec.
Absolutely. We tried to allude to that fact a bit in he review, and as it turns out, YT has just offered us a higher spec model to take for a long term review and to compare to this model. So, stay tuned! We’re excited
Hey guys ! I have heckler sl a couple of moths . And the superb bike for me super quiet super stable . Just replaced to TRP DHR evo brakes 2.3 rotors, and of course T-type derailleur GX . Thank you !
I saw that first parking lot unload and immediately knew it was Spence mountain. Visited Southern Oregon this summer (Klamath Falls, Ashland, Rogue River,) and Spence was so good that I took a detour back to Klamath Falls to ride Spence a second time on the way home. (Plus it gave me an excuse to take 395 back home and stop in Tahoe instead of I5's drudgery.) Somewhat like Sedona's red dirt, Spence leaves a peculiar color of dirt on your tires that looks kind of like truffle dust, (Or at least it did this summer.) I'm looking forward to going back next year.
I have the Heckler SL and honestly, I just L O V E that bike! it's just so amazing...The only thing I would change maybe is: replace the Lyrik by a ZEB. Even if it took everything I tried, I always felt more "secure" with my ZEB on my Nomad, it feels more prepared to take the hard stuff like drops and big rocky trails.
What do you think about the lack of stiffness, reliability, and longevity of the suspension in amflow pl? The strut-mount suspension system and trunnion mount require high precision in manufacturing and stiffness. Many companies face issues with this suspension system.
Isn’t the Santa Cruz Vala 21kgs? I know this is the SL shootout, but Vala vs the Heckler, not much weight in it? Id love a Heckler, but would take full power Bosch over limited power Fazua
Yes they are a few pounds off , but close... Different riders may prefer different things, but Drew (speaking here) would prefer a lighter full power like the Vala vs the Heckler SL. That said, the Vala's smaller battery also has it running on E earlier than 700+WH full power bikes when we take it out on bigger test rides. So many dilemmas...
I now have the choice between: Turbo Levo Expert 20234/24 (best price), Santa Cruz Vala GXS GX (20% more expensive), orbea Rise LT M 10 (just as expensive as the Vala). Which bike would you buy for the low mountain range and as a bike for everything? The alternative would be the new Levo, but it probably costs 30% more (Expert)
The best channel for mtb! I have a question. I'm considering Amflow, but I'm not sure if it is ok to take the base version or go with the PRO :/ Can you guys help me decide?
Thank you so much. Appreciate the kind words. If the increase in price won’t be a financial stressor, we’d say go for the Pro. If it is, you’ll still have plenty of fun on the Base so enjoy that.
We tried to get a Relay, but sadly Transition did not get us one. That said, many of our testers would still rate that bike at, or nearly at the top of the pack. (If memory serves us)
We would likely choose the Heckler SL over the Shuttle SL, its a bit more capable with that extra 18mm of rear travel. The Shuttle SL is very much a "downcountry" emtb. I personally only spent time in the highest modes and they're all quiet. TW might be the most quiet but only by a hair, followed by the Avinox then Fazua systems. -Sean
Great content. The video weve all been waiting for. There is something very disengaging about watching guys sit round a table talking about bikes though. Stand round the bikes like the MBR guys.
Our legs may fall off if we stood that long! Haha. But in all seriousness. Thank you for watching and appreciate the suggestion. Maybe we’ll try that next time! Maybe we’ll have a rolling tray to hold our notes while we walk amongst the bikes.
@TheLoamWolf Yes. Apologise for the negativity. Fantastic content, I personally found it really useful. I myself was leaning towards the Santa Cruz having ridden it and agree with the opinions in the video.
Oh we didn’t see much negativity there, just constructive criticism, which we always appreciate as we strive to deliver better content. Compared to what some keyboard warriors lob at us, that was a pleasant compliment! Haha. Thanks again
I’m bummed that you guys didn’t review the Transition Relay. Especially since it was your Light E-MTB winner last year. How does the Relay stack up against this line of competitors? I ask, because I’m looking at buying one in the next couple of months, ( in part, because of your earlier review). Thanks.
The biggest problem with Relay is that the battery size is small without any option for range extender. You should get lighter eMTB with large battery (600+ wh) or you should get one with optional range extender.
Great video! Best on this channel! I agree 100%! I’m now between the Santa Cruz Vala GX AXS and the Orbea Rise M10 as a do it all bike. The Santa Cruz is maybe more solid, the orbea more sporty. Which one would you recommend ?
@TheLoamWolf thanks for the response and thanks for these videos, you guys need to have a LoamWolf monthly box thing like how vitalmtb had where a customer pays $19.99 - $49.99 a month for a mystery box that comes in the mail every month with cool little MTB stuff picked by you guys.
I like the comment of "what do your buddies ride". I have the Santa Cruz SL and my buddy the Orbea rise. I have a tough time keeping up with him and his range is insanely longer than the Fazua. That being said, the heckler SL is a sick bike and I do love it - despite having to replace the motor once already.
It's a tricky balance to strike - it may be safer to assume you need a higher power motor (and you can always just run it in a lower power mode). But, the increased agility on the way down with a lighter system is undeniable..
No they were hoping to have been available by end of this year, that now seems to be optimistically early 2025, but we haven’t heard any updates on that.
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks. Most other channels reviewing this bike have said DJI has no plans to release it in the US in 2024 or 2025. None of them gave a direct quote so maybe it was just speculation. This video is the first I've heard of what sounds like confirmation that they do intend to sell to the US before 2026.
The dead FAZUA motor is probably a problem with torque sensor calibration. That’s the problem with my unit and many reported same issue on Reddit and other forums.
It certainly has it's place, we liked the one we had last year but was held back by the 1 piece bar/stem combo and live valve suspension. We would have opted for the spec below the one we tested and it likely would have been a top pick trail bike. Motor and power delivery are insane but the battery drained fairly quickly and we had some tech problems as well.
@ thanks for the reply. I was curious because I don’t see anything giants in shootouts like this. Rode a few and I like them. Top spec does have too many goodies thrown at it where they don’t really belong.
Drew and team. I believe you rode the Size L in the Amflow bike. How did you find the size compared to other bikes? Did it seem small. I khow you'r e5'11", anyone on the team taller who felt it was the right size at L. For reference, I'm 6'1" with shorter legs. Any or all comments on sizing for the Amflow is appreciated.
Heckler SL for most rides, rarely undergunned and always fun. Trek Slash+ for gnar, BC steeps and Double Blacks. Norco Fluid VLT to lighter duty trails and smile factor. Amflow for the lazy Sundays where I don't want to do the work and want all the braaap from my bike!
Hey there! Last year when you test the Heckler SL, you said you still prefer the Relay over the Heckler because of the handling. This year you point Heckler because of that. So what are your thoughts now?Have they changed or Relay is still better handling bike ?
Hey thanks for watching. Interesting question. The Stout build is certainly more suited for us than the Standard Heckler SL, which is likely why we liked it better than our other review. We think the choice between those two would come down to the terrain a consumer has at hand. Most likely Drew, Cole and Sean would choose the Relay, but with Jared’s love of the Kenevo SL, Slash and Big travel bikes, that bike very much could have still been our pick. The Heckler SL just doesn’t require the steep or nasty terrain, but the Relay is definitely more capable of being pushed hard into bigger stuff thanks to the extra travel
@TheLoamWolf thanks for the answer. I agree with you, and may i point that all seems to come to these 2 models as the 2 best overall of the category! Defenetly a win for fazua on that!
I actually took a Relay PNW and a Heckler SL on a summer trip to Downieville to compare the two. While I really like the Heckler SL, I was much much much faster on the Relay PNW. In fact, I couldn’t believe it but I was also faster on the Relay than my Gen3 Levo which I also brought. All 3 bikes were top spec models. Needless to say that I no longer have the Heckler. It’s a great bike and I liked it but not the one for me. Enough about that…. I think that you did your viewers a disservice by not ranking the bikes by category like last year. Most people fail to buy the bike they need and end up with the bike they want. For example, although I prefer big chunky enduro DH kind of riding, like Downieville, my home trails, that I ride at least 90% + of the time, are more XC pinner kind of trails with some fast DH. I’m absolutely in love with my Relay but I’m looking for something lighter and snappier for day to day riding. I’m not sure that I got a definitive answer based on all of these reviews. That being said, I’ve had a ton of ebikes, many of the ones you’ve reviewed, and I think you do a good job reviewing them. I wish I had the patience to film while testing new bikes because I’d have a channel too! It’s not easy. I love the work that you guys do. Thanks for the content!
Anyway, thank you guys for this nice review, like the format of your tests just some bike nerds sitting together chatting about their opinion of the bikes showing imnpressions numbers cannot tell. (Y)
My wife rides a Nebo Peak, I ride a Timp Peak. The power consumption/timed climb results definitely track what we're seeing. Given our difference in rider weight, that makes ot a great match tontode together, and she benefits way more from the lighter weight bike at her size than she does from more power (which is the reverse of my situation). I'd still love to see bench testing for efficiency. Maybe y'all can find some engineering students who need a project for a term paper and pull some units off test bikes? I suspect that my EP801 is a little less efficient than, for example, a Bosch CX.
Here’s what I do not understand. Y’all have said the Specialized 1.2 motor can’t keep up with the Fazua, but Fazua has 250w of continuous power, where the Specialized has 320w of continuous power from what I can find. I get that Fazua has that boost for a few seconds up to 450w, but from what I can tell, Specialized should keep pace fine with Fazua, right?
That 320w is peak power for the 1.2 motor. Torque and internal tunes play the biggest factor between the two. The 1.2 motor prefers to do light work with a casual cadence to preserve battery, whereas the Ride60 system doesn't really care about cadence or battery preservation. So, on flatter terrain, the 1.2 is very sporty! However ones the grade gets steeper, that power rating drops quite a bit and it isn't delivering that 320w. Feels closer to 180-190w. -Sean
I think thee amflow is a mule bike for the motor to see how the motor holds up over the next year, i think if everythings goes well DJI will then approach the big manufacturers. Amflow was setup in 2023 i dont think it will be around long, just my views and conspiracy theory 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dji should for trail use, guys who just want to travel steep terrain from point A to point B. Only care about the calories burning fun factor. Decoy sn, santacruz heckler, pivot is more for the hardcore park, enduro rider who likes to ride agressive & lands big drops.
@@TheLoamWolf I think it would be a nice feature, CL is not good anymore, FB is just a bunch of flakers & low ballers asking you "do you still have the item" 100 times, pro's closet went bankrupt, and good moderated forum's are few and far.
While the DJI motor is impressive, I feel the battery is what really makes it. Their battery is so much lighter but with more juice. The difference between battery companies that focused on going lean and DJI that focused on innovation. The better battery allows you to have the more powerful motor and still ride the distances you would want.
How are they missing the low efficiency of the TQ motor? It used %4.4 more W/Hs than the SX and Fazua motors, but it went %11.7 percent slower. The strain wave transmission, (Trek calls it Harmonic Ring) is known to be %5 less efficient than the planetary gear trans mission used in the other motors. It does give you a lighter, quieter, and smaller form factor motor. The new ZF motor uses the same transmission type and I imagine it will have the same characteristics. It will be full power and run with a bigger battery, so maybe the inefficiency won't be a factor. That being said, ZF is giving us a new motor, but its battery is 750wh vs. 800wh for the newest batteries. Along with that, they use a proprietary mounting rail that adds more weight.
We had this bike in our lightweight shootout last year and our full power shootout this year. It's an interesting rig, but we didn't gel with certain aspects.
Slowly but hopefully surely e-bikes will come along the path many motorcycle and high performance vehicles all have. Think motorcycle develop in early 90s. Lighter with full power. Consumer demand drives change. We want full power 40lb max bikes. I’ll buy in once they get there. Let’s go
One of the most important bike/ ebike for people who don't have 9k to drop on new ebikes is re-sale value. In the past 4 years and on a Heckler sl now. Lost more than 1/2 the value when selling used ebikes. $7200 with upgrade/transfer bling components from other bike. Next year can't see the santa cruz lose 1/2 the value compared to the other ebikes. Previous bike scor 4060Z lt. Norco sight vlt.
Has anybody ever wondered why these things don’t have regenerative braking on them like a Tesla? Ideally you could select it before a long descent, and add juice back into your battery using the motor as a gentle brake, making the smaller batteries go further. 🤔
Lots of extra tech and hardware to capture the regen. Would add weight. Regen on the Tesla also causes motor braking, which is why there’s one-pedal driving. I don’t think anyone wants motor braking while descending on a mountain bike. You want friction-free descending.
You didn’t say I’d the Amflow was a us spec class 1 up to 20mph or a rest of the world (mostly) 25 kph. This is an important distinction as US riders can’t even get this bike yet.
The Levo SL hasn't changed. Still an awesome frame with a comparatively underpowered drive unit. Good fun for solo trail riding or with other similar systems / regular mountain bikes.
Nicely nuanced reviews. So the best bikes (as bikes, motor not counted) appeared to be the Kenevo SL, Heckler SL, Ari Nebo etc. The Decoy SN was compromised by the suspension and motor - Fazua still has issues. As a bike+motor entity, the Rise LT seemed to be the best rational choice, but the motor clanks. If you don't ride as hard as to flex them, the Amflow might be the best choice and best value, too, with best SW, best power, adaptability etc. But maybe I'd consider a light (re)build of the Orbea Wild instead of any of these. I think the industry has converged around 20-21 kg eMTBs being in the sweet spot in the power+weight+range space. I expect more bikes with the DJI motor... even lower power variations, but keeping the good sides.
Nice to find guys that dig analyzing as much as I. Specialized SL owner. Agree on the drawbacks. Live in the Pacific Northwest. Squamish, Whistler, Nelson terrain. Steep, chunky rocks and roots. This bike rewards I’d be happy to own any of them. All better bikes than I am a rider
@ I find it fascinating so many are ready to write off everything for a bike they can’t ride based solely on motor specifications. Biggest gripe on the Ari is the rear is pretty dang progressive and hard to get travel out of past 75 percent and on a large the stack was way too low stock.
Yeah we’ve tried to steer people away who reach out and are either deciding between a way better bike with Shimano vs a bike we would not buy but has Bosch… we hope they’re happy, but a lot more important stuff than that for us. Yeah that Nebo is a fun bike!
Did you not try the KSL with a steep HA? That bike is the most adjustable on the market you really should of changed it to reduce the wheelbase. Cmon guys
So satisfying that my opinion on the Heckler SL are reflected by what you guys found too. I had 1 3-hour ride on it and I fell in love! The Fazua system is decent enough but the DJI Avinox motor has really taken my fancy too! The snappy handling, playful character but sturdiness of the Heckler SL really ticks all the boxes, I just found it didn't cope too great with tech climbs.... that could just be the mullet wheelset though
Man I like my older rise, but I won't get another Orbea. I love wrenching on my own bike, but Orbea FORCES you to go through a dealer for ANYTHING. For example, lost a motor mount bolt 4 weeks after purchase and they wanted me to go through a dealer rather than send me a bolt. It was easier to just pay for the parts than go through that process with an online retailer. Asked about purchasing a rear triangle cuz i messed it up when I snapped pivot bolt...nope go through a dealer. Like wtf...I am trying to PURCHASE something and you make me go to a dealer.
@ my turbo levo pro came 48 lbs stock, which I could weenie down with component changes. It’s 90nm and 700whr put these “lightweights” to shame. I wouldn’t call my bike lightweight but interesting that at least spesh with the sl and trek exe try to make lightweight mean what it says.
This test and filming was conducted a while before the Instinct PowerPlay SL was out or Rocky had one available to send us….maybe send the “come on” to RM and take it up with them. 😂
My fav is dji, price and new trend. Kenevo sl too expensive for what it is, not powerfull enough. Yt similar as sb165, good motor good price Santacruz heckler is my second option
Disappointed to not see the transition relay or giant trance elite. What happened there? On a side note, the amflo must ride like absolute garbage for not a single person to pick it. Lighter, significantly greater range, double the torque and tried and true Levo-esque geo/suspension. My mind is kinda blown
We really hoped that Transition would get us a bike. We reached out a few times but sadly it didn’t work out. Gotta admit, we didn’t reach out for the Giant as we’ve had them in our last 2 Shootouts both full power and last year’s SL. The Amflow definitely does not ride like garbage, it’s just that we like to ride a certain way and when you cross the line on that bike, it definitely lets you know. For lots of riders, that bike would be a dream bike!
@ thank you for the response. I assumed that was the case; no big loss as neither of those bikes offer much change from your previous reviews. I sold my trance elite last week, with a change in bar/stem and a 170mm fork + 185x55 shock that bike is hard to beat in the SL category. Sadly, even with a range extender I needed far more range than any of the SL models can offer.
Thank you for watching. We felt it would be more of a disservice to pick a “winner” as the field of bikes and their intended applications is so broad, it may tempt folks to buy a bike that would not be ideal for them and their terrain/riding style. Our goal was to offer the most helpful bits of information for riders of all types. It was something we debated on heavily, and perhaps we’ll figure out a better way to pick top suggestions for each category without making it seem like “everybody gets a trophy” feeling.
@TheLoamWolf yeup...defenetly a tough job, but you got to do it. That's why you get paid the big $. You should go back and re do it... We don't need that "it's too hard excuse "...
Haha. We'd love nothing more than to just go hit the trails and ride bikes more. Our full power eMTB Shootout had some clear and definitive winners if you wanna go check that out. Let's just say, for the sake of this convo, we picked the Pivot Shuttle SL as it's insanely light, nimble fast and fun. But you live in Squamish, ride double black DH trails and big jumps. Suddenly our pick doesn't make much sense. Similarly, if we picked the Trek Slash+ because it's an absolute BEAST at eating the downhills up, but you like in Florida and your biggest descent is 82 feet, well...You're probably not gonna love our winning pick. haha.
I dont know if you guys got a bum unit or what but what you described does not match my experience with the yt decoy sn at all. Its the most playful, natural jumping, hard charging bike ive ever ridden. You should get a core 3 and redo this.
@@TheLoamWolfgood to hear. Im guessing the bike had a blown vivid. None of what you described, including seesawing, not getting front and rear to jive etc even remotely describes mine and several others experiences. Ive also demoed 3 SNs from the mill and now have my personal core 3. Every trail ive taken it on ive ridden 20-30% harder than my other bikes. Feels like the next gen in mtb.
Thank you for watching. We felt it would be more of a disservice to pick a “winner” as the field of bikes and their intended applications is so broad, it may tempt folks to buy a bike that would not be ideal for them and their terrain/riding style. Our goal was to offer the most helpful bits of information for riders of all types. It was something we debated on heavily, and perhaps we’ll figure out a better way to pick top suggestions for each category without making it seem like “everybody gets a trophy” feeling.
This channel has the best bike reviews
🙏 thank you very much.
This is the only place i come to for my mtb info
We appreciate the kind words. 🙏 makes all the stress we put on ourselves worth it.
to bad they are a little to much of friends with Pivot 🙂↕️🤷🏻
An hour and a half of lightweight e-bike goodness?! Time for some popcorn. 🍿
Enjoy!
Man thanks guys for this very comprehensive and honest reviews.
Well produced!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great test, appreciate the number of bikes assembled, and the rigor involved. Amflow looks promising! Sad to hear about the Kenevo being unwieldy, cause the only e-bikes that appeal to me are the 170mm+ mini dirt bikes.
Love the dialogue. Puts Pinkbike to shame. Thoughtful objecive and subjective opinions (and when you do, your personal opinions are well prefaced) while being non-snobbish. PB on the other hand have over corrected and form most of their reviews nit-picking things from personal preference rather than being mostly objective like you guys have done here. Well done!
Thank you very much!
Pb used to be decent when they had Kaz, Levy, and Alicia. Still like loamwolf more though, just feels very neutral and honest.
I agree with this comment pinkbike are horrible at reviewing bikes
I love both. I know which riders at PB fit my style of riding more, so I follow them more closely. One constructive criticism I'd offer to the LW crew (if they care) is to get to the point a little more quickly. I find at times the conversation can meander at times and retread the same info. Otherwise, great work on this channel.
@@WilliamrikerNCC1701 The only balanced technical reviewer on PB is Seb Stott who has the combination of being an experimental physicist + not in the PNW bubble (and subsequently NOT reviewing everything from the perspective of someone riding in MTB nirvana all you can eat buffet of grip and elevation).
You guys arent afraid to pick any bike apart despite thdm being all good bikes. I appreciate that. Lots of good data points
Thanks very much. Our primary goal is to give you all the best info possible
Great roundup, I’m on a heckler sl in southern utah and agree with everything you stated. The mezzer pro up front paired with the push sv8 out back really makes this bike come alive.
Sounds like a killer setup!
I have the YT decoy SN. I’ve had it for a couple months. It is the most confidence inspiring bike I’ve ever ridden. I mainly write it on rough double black diamonds in the PNW and it feels like it was absolutely built for that. Precise technical writing with big features, high speeds, rough trails. It loves to jump. Very poppy but still very good in serious technical situations. I have the core 2, I’m 6 feet tall And I ride the size large and I love the sizing. I get about 3300 feet on a full charge in boost mode. 185 pounds.
That’s awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing.
Best review ever! Such a difficult decision and so well done! Wow....e-bikes have a long way to go with the lead of DJI
I do have to say, I have the Heckler SL. Its' a sweet handling bike. Fun and secure. 1750 miles on the Fazua motor. No problems. But I spin, spin, spin.....no mashing of the peddles and I ride in cool to cold temperatures.
Thanks for the kind words! It was a really stressful project and we’re glad it’s over! 🤯Hopefully enjoyed by many.
Thanks for sharing feedback on the Heckler SL.
Nice work team. Like how you've wrapped this all up. Loads of relevant and useful info as always. I would honestly never buy a bike unless you people had reviewed it first.
Thank you Michael, we really appreciate the kind words!
So, how does the Transition Relay stack up against these "new" contenders, as the 2023 SL emtb of the year? Not comparing it to these seems a glaring oversight, though I appreciate what you guys do. Comments/commentary please?
Had same thought...
We really hoped Transition was going to get us one, sadly they didn’t.
Good point though, we should have compared though half the testers didn’t ride it.
For those who have, it’s still very much a contender and we’d still highly recommend it.
I would not recommend Relay because the range is too limiting, and it does not offer any range extender. I would get SL EMTB with 600+ wh battery. If you really want lighter bike with smaller battery, then make sure you have an option for range extender.
@@shjin do you need a range extender when you can just carry a second battery and swap it in?
@@BikeIntelligencerThe battery is so heavy and carrying it in a backpack isn’t really something you want to do. My friend tried it with his Relay and it was bad.
Thanks for your reviews! Helped confirm that I made the right choice for my wife and her new Ari Nebo Peak. She is only hitting trails, and the weight of all other eMTB's was too much for her to manage. The power of the Ari, near silent drive, ease of use to ride, 40 lbs weight, and sub $6k price was too much to pass on. Love hearing about these other bikes. As a 49 yr old "analogue" biker, man some of these are super tempting. Thanks @The Loam Wolf!
Thank you very much and appreciate you watching and sharing.
Glad to hear you are both happy with your Nebo. It’s a very fun bike!
Happy trails.
Another great video guys. It was cool meeting you guys at Mountain Bike Oregon.👍😉 and I’m excited to check out Klamath Falls. Thanks!
Thanks! And great meeting You too!
Thank you guys. Look forward to these roundups. Very useful info. I appreciate how you include different rider types in your evaluations. I'm much more like a Travis than a Robert.
Thanks for the feedback and appreciate you sharing.
Best shootout review this year! Just got my Nebo peak and loving it. Still getting use to the 60nm since I also own a full fatty Decoy but the weight difference on that Nebo is top notch. Love the videos, great work guys.
Awesome to hear all around thank you so much!!
Bummer you guys didn’t get along with the YT. I have that bike and changed the rear shock to coil and I absolutely love it. Had the Specialized KSL v1 before and I agree that it’s more composed on the chunk but the YT is very confidence inspiring. Thanks for the reviews, loved watching. 🤙🏻
Hey thanks for sharing. It's not that we didn't get along with it, it's a good bike and Robert absolutely loved the higher spec model he rode! It's just that when you start hopping quickly from one bike to another, you can start to pick up on little differences and they become more pronounced as you repeat trails over and over and certain sections.
As always, great review!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
Great discussions and reviews by riders that know their stuff. 👍 Love the conclusions!
Thank you Jeanmarc, much appreciated!
Real informative, guys. Great content
Thank you for watching!
Wow...what a great round up and reviews 🤘👏 noice job guys
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome reviews-thanks! I am buying the Amflow (but the base model PL rather than the PL Pro) - I was hoping you might be able to please provide some detail on the stem/bar changes you made that improved the handling (mentioned around the 8.15 min mark)? That would be super helpful. cheers
We fitted a more familiar OneUp setup, with their carbon bar (one of our favorites) in a higher rise.
I picked up my Amflow PL Wednesday. It's awesome value compared to the competition. I've swapped out my bars and Stem to One Up (carbon) also. Swapped out the wheels for zipp moto, Reverb Axs 170mm Dropper, Xx T Type shod with Magic Mary and Big Betty tyres. Code Ultimate Stealth brakes. Ergon grips and saddle. Killer build now. Bike is simply flipping awesome. Buy one if you get hold of one 👌👍
@@TheLoamWolfthank you!
With the amflow would the aluminium bike be stiffer as a posed to the carbon?
Great review, Loam Wolf team! I appreciate the detailed breakdown of the Running Y Resort's location and terrain-it helps bring your feedback to life and lets us compare it to our hometown trails. Ultimately, what matters is how a bike feels to ride-confidence and fun being the ultimate deciders. Awesome to see so much agreement on the Heckler SL being *that* bike! But here’s a thought: if the Heckler SL had the DJI Avinox drive system, would it be a clear winner? Would love to hear your take!
Thanks for the kind words Dan. Appreciate the feedback and perspective.
To attempt to answer your question…if the Heckler SL had the Avinox would it be best? Well, that depends, would any other bike have that drive unit too? If the Trek Slash had it, or the Kenevo SL, or any other well rounded bike had it, that would likely make it a winner.
Fantastic work what a team just keeps getting better 💯
Thank you 🙌
Been loving these videos - good work guys!
Glad you like them!
Great job as always guys!
Thank you very much!🙏 Glad you enjoyed it!
Great reviews you guys are doing ! One thing I want to point out. The Rise has Fox Factory suspension, the Performance Elite stuff on the Heckler
is the same as Factory. The Yt has the cheap Rockshox suspension, but they offer it with great spec also. That is just not a fair comparison
in my opinion. Recently I upgraded my Kenevo Expert to Fox Factory and it is like a completely different bike! So yeah its no wonder
Robert liked the bike so much better than you guys, as his test bike was the high spec.
Absolutely. We tried to allude to that fact a bit in he review, and as it turns out, YT has just offered us a higher spec model to take for a long term review and to compare to this model. So, stay tuned! We’re excited
@@TheLoamWolf That's great news! My Kenevo felt much lighter and poppy after changing suspension.
Hey guys ! I have heckler sl a couple of moths . And the superb bike for me super quiet super stable . Just replaced to TRP DHR evo brakes 2.3 rotors, and of course T-type derailleur GX . Thank you !
Sounds like a great setup!
I saw that first parking lot unload and immediately knew it was Spence mountain. Visited Southern Oregon this summer (Klamath Falls, Ashland, Rogue River,) and Spence was so good that I took a detour back to Klamath Falls to ride Spence a second time on the way home. (Plus it gave me an excuse to take 395 back home and stop in Tahoe instead of I5's drudgery.)
Somewhat like Sedona's red dirt, Spence leaves a peculiar color of dirt on your tires that looks kind of like truffle dust, (Or at least it did this summer.) I'm looking forward to going back next year.
It’s a rad spot for sure!
I have the Heckler SL and honestly, I just L O V E that bike! it's just so amazing...The only thing I would change maybe is: replace the Lyrik by a ZEB. Even if it took everything I tried, I always felt more "secure" with my ZEB on my Nomad, it feels more prepared to take the hard stuff like drops and big rocky trails.
Could be a great upgrade for the hardest charging
This review is really good. Could you do something similar with a group of full power eMTB, please?
We did a full power shootout earlier this year, just out the rest of the videos on our channel page.
What do you think about the lack of stiffness, reliability, and longevity of the suspension in amflow pl? The strut-mount suspension system and trunnion mount require high precision in manufacturing and stiffness. Many companies face issues with this suspension system.
It'll be interesting to see how it fares in the long term. So far it's been trouble free.
Isn’t the Santa Cruz Vala 21kgs? I know this is the SL shootout, but Vala vs the Heckler, not much weight in it? Id love a Heckler, but would take full power Bosch over limited power Fazua
Yes they are a few pounds off , but close... Different riders may prefer different things, but Drew (speaking here) would prefer a lighter full power like the Vala vs the Heckler SL. That said, the Vala's smaller battery also has it running on E earlier than 700+WH full power bikes when we take it out on bigger test rides. So many dilemmas...
Orbea for the win🥇#moderator knows best ! Really great review !!
damn, great series, thank you!!!!
Thank you! 🙏
I now have the choice between: Turbo Levo Expert 20234/24 (best price), Santa Cruz Vala GXS GX (20% more expensive), orbea Rise LT M 10 (just as expensive as the Vala). Which bike would you buy for the low mountain range and as a bike for everything? The alternative would be the new Levo, but it probably costs 30% more (Expert)
The best channel for mtb! I have a question. I'm considering Amflow, but I'm not sure if it is ok to take the base version or go with the PRO :/ Can you guys help me decide?
Thank you so much. Appreciate the kind words. If the increase in price won’t be a financial stressor, we’d say go for the Pro. If it is, you’ll still have plenty of fun on the Base so enjoy that.
Where do these stack up against last year’s winner (Relay)?
We tried to get a Relay, but sadly Transition did not get us one. That said, many of our testers would still rate that bike at, or nearly at the top of the pack. (If memory serves us)
Thanks for your reviews of these e-bikes. I guess what I’d like to know is which one has the quietest motor among them.
Avinox, TQ and Fazua are all very quiet almost silent.
@@TheLoamWolf SC Heckler vs Pivot Shuttle. Both are using the Fazua motor, which one do you recommend?
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks! When using both low power and high power output, which of the 3 motors is the quietest based on your experience?
We would likely choose the Heckler SL over the Shuttle SL, its a bit more capable with that extra 18mm of rear travel. The Shuttle SL is very much a "downcountry" emtb.
I personally only spent time in the highest modes and they're all quiet. TW might be the most quiet but only by a hair, followed by the Avinox then Fazua systems. -Sean
Great content. The video weve all been waiting for. There is something very disengaging about watching guys sit round a table talking about bikes though. Stand round the bikes like the MBR guys.
Our legs may fall off if we stood that long! Haha. But in all seriousness. Thank you for watching and appreciate the suggestion. Maybe we’ll try that next time! Maybe we’ll have a rolling tray to hold our notes while we walk amongst the bikes.
@TheLoamWolf Yes. Apologise for the negativity. Fantastic content, I personally found it really useful. I myself was leaning towards the Santa Cruz having ridden it and agree with the opinions in the video.
Oh we didn’t see much negativity there, just constructive criticism, which we always appreciate as we strive to deliver better content. Compared to what some keyboard warriors lob at us, that was a pleasant compliment! Haha. Thanks again
I really wanted to see your impressions on the new stumpy with the fox genie!!
Stumpy, or Levo SL? We've got a first ride review of the Stumpy on the channel already, and are working on a long term review currently.
@ sorry the levo sl. Both my friends have it, their in love. Its the perfect example of a bad powertrain but a really good bike to ride.
I’m bummed that you guys didn’t review the Transition Relay. Especially since it was your Light E-MTB winner last year. How does the Relay stack up against this line of competitors? I ask, because I’m looking at buying one in the next couple of months, ( in part, because of your earlier review). Thanks.
We were really hoping to get one again! Sadly Transition couldn’t deliver one to us.
That said, still very much a contender!!
The biggest problem with Relay is that the battery size is small without any option for range extender. You should get lighter eMTB with large battery (600+ wh) or you should get one with optional range extender.
@@shjinrange extender is coming in Q2 2025….all relays already have the rubber access grommet on the downtube.
You can just swap batteries
@@jokermtb I hope you are correct. That is what I’ve been waiting to hear. It was either that or buy an extra battery😁
Great video! Best on this channel! I agree 100%! I’m now between the Santa Cruz Vala GX AXS and the Orbea Rise M10 as a do it all bike. The Santa Cruz is maybe more solid, the orbea more sporty. Which one would you recommend ?
If you going for more of the SL feel the Rise is a really really good platform! The Vala is great in its own ways as well. That’s a tough one!
@ thank you! Heard the sc quality is outstanding a the Bosch motor has a long life.
So I know you guys had a feature with the Transition relay last year how does that bike hold up with these?
That bike still rips. FAZUA is the only worry point for us.
@TheLoamWolf thanks for the response and thanks for these videos, you guys need to have a LoamWolf monthly box thing like how vitalmtb had where a customer pays $19.99 - $49.99 a month for a mystery box that comes in the mail every month with cool little MTB stuff picked by you guys.
I like the comment of "what do your buddies ride". I have the Santa Cruz SL and my buddy the Orbea rise. I have a tough time keeping up with him and his range is insanely longer than the Fazua. That being said, the heckler SL is a sick bike and I do love it - despite having to replace the motor once already.
It's a tricky balance to strike - it may be safer to assume you need a higher power motor (and you can always just run it in a lower power mode). But, the increased agility on the way down with a lighter system is undeniable..
What the choice over kenevo sl and trek slash?
When you say DJI is looking to sell the amflow in the US in Q4, do you mean in 2025?
No they were hoping to have been available by end of this year, that now seems to be optimistically early 2025, but we haven’t heard any updates on that.
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks. Most other channels reviewing this bike have said DJI has no plans to release it in the US in 2024 or 2025. None of them gave a direct quote so maybe it was just speculation. This video is the first I've heard of what sounds like confirmation that they do intend to sell to the US before 2026.
When they reached out to us to ask if we’d like a test bike that was what we were told. Hopefully it happens.
The dead FAZUA motor is probably a problem with torque sensor calibration. That’s the problem with my unit and many reported same issue on Reddit and other forums.
Thanks for sharing we’re waiting on an update from YT/Fazua as the bikes in the way back to them.
If you put the Avinox system in the Slash+ would it be the best all around e-bike?
Quite possibly for those who have the terrain to properly make use of all this travel! We’d sure love it!
Was a giant trance advanced elite ever in contention with any of the picks you guys tested? Love your vids btw!
It certainly has it's place, we liked the one we had last year but was held back by the 1 piece bar/stem combo and live valve suspension. We would have opted for the spec below the one we tested and it likely would have been a top pick trail bike. Motor and power delivery are insane but the battery drained fairly quickly and we had some tech problems as well.
@ thanks for the reply. I was curious because I don’t see anything giants in shootouts like this. Rode a few and I like them. Top spec does have too many goodies thrown at it where they don’t really belong.
Drew and team. I believe you rode the Size L in the Amflow bike. How did you find the size compared to other bikes? Did it seem small. I khow you'r e5'11", anyone on the team taller who felt it was the right size at L. For reference, I'm 6'1" with shorter legs. Any or all comments on sizing for the Amflow is appreciated.
Hey Paul. Our crew all liked the size of the Large and felt that would be our pick for a personal size selection. Cole and Sean are 6’1 and 6’2.
Nice Video. Really enjoying it! Are you going to test the new Rocky Mountain Instinct SL too? Thanks a lot for the awesome content!
Yes, sadly the bike was held up in customs, but we will have a Tech Check on that coming very soon. Already filmed and being edited now.
@ Oh nice. Thanks for the quick reply. Looking forward to it! 👍🏻
Heckler SL for most rides, rarely undergunned and always fun. Trek Slash+ for gnar, BC steeps and Double Blacks. Norco Fluid VLT to lighter duty trails and smile factor. Amflow for the lazy Sundays where I don't want to do the work and want all the braaap from my bike!
Thanks for coming out Jared!
@@TheLoamWolf anytime! ...just bring extra crankarms and pedals.
😖😂 Haha, and some booboo ointment.
Im very curious about these Schwalbe radial tyres. Im after some new tyres for my DH bike
They're pretty damn awesome. Make sure you get the Gravity casing for your DH bike!
Are there any stats from motor manufactures to see what % of motors are failing? Or any comparison like that?
While we'd love to say that we'll reach out, chances are the replies would be slightly polished, but tough to say! We can certainly try to find out.
Great content!
Thank you very much! 🙏
Hey there! Last year when you test the Heckler SL, you said you still prefer the Relay over the Heckler because of the handling. This year you point Heckler because of that. So what are your thoughts now?Have they changed or Relay is still better handling bike ?
Hey thanks for watching. Interesting question. The Stout build is certainly more suited for us than the Standard Heckler SL, which is likely why we liked it better than our other review.
We think the choice between those two would come down to the terrain a consumer has at hand. Most likely Drew, Cole and Sean would choose the Relay, but with Jared’s love of the Kenevo SL, Slash and Big travel bikes, that bike very much could have still been our pick.
The Heckler SL just doesn’t require the steep or nasty terrain, but the Relay is definitely more capable of being pushed hard into bigger stuff thanks to the extra travel
@TheLoamWolf thanks for the answer. I agree with you, and may i point that all seems to come to these 2 models as the 2 best overall of the category! Defenetly a win for fazua on that!
I actually took a Relay PNW and a Heckler SL on a summer trip to Downieville to compare the two. While I really like the Heckler SL, I was much much much faster on the Relay PNW. In fact, I couldn’t believe it but I was also faster on the Relay than my Gen3 Levo which I also brought. All 3 bikes were top spec models. Needless to say that I no longer have the Heckler. It’s a great bike and I liked it but not the one for me. Enough about that….
I think that you did your viewers a disservice by not ranking the bikes by category like last year. Most people fail to buy the bike they need and end up with the bike they want. For example, although I prefer big chunky enduro DH kind of riding, like Downieville, my home trails, that I ride at least 90% + of the time, are more XC pinner kind of trails with some fast DH. I’m absolutely in love with my Relay but I’m looking for something lighter and snappier for day to day riding. I’m not sure that I got a definitive answer based on all of these reviews. That being said, I’ve had a ton of ebikes, many of the ones you’ve reviewed, and I think you do a good job reviewing them. I wish I had the patience to film while testing new bikes because I’d have a channel too! It’s not easy. I love the work that you guys do. Thanks for the content!
Thanks very much and we appreciate the feedback your suggestions and glad you enjoyed the series.
This was a great vidoe. Where’s the Trek EXe? I’m sad now. I love my EXe.
It was in last year's test.
We considered the Slash+ a more interesting inclusion for this year. Fuel EXe is unchanged.
ExE is an ebike for about an hour, then turns into a brick.
@@tanpen15 At an even 40 pounds, I get 25 miles and 2,500’ of climbing out of mine. That’s without the range extender.
@@Shawn-in-da-Canyon as a certified fatass I get about 13 miles and about 18 with the range extender.
Where was the Spectral:onfly? Not out at the time of the test yet?
Anyway, thank you guys for this nice review, like the format of your tests just some bike nerds sitting together chatting about their opinion of the bikes showing imnpressions numbers cannot tell. (Y)
Yeah sadly timing didn’t work out. Looks fun though!
And glad you enjoyed it.
Holy shit, time flies.
My wife rides a Nebo Peak, I ride a Timp Peak. The power consumption/timed climb results definitely track what we're seeing. Given our difference in rider weight, that makes ot a great match tontode together, and she benefits way more from the lighter weight bike at her size than she does from more power (which is the reverse of my situation).
I'd still love to see bench testing for efficiency. Maybe y'all can find some engineering students who need a project for a term paper and pull some units off test bikes? I suspect that my EP801 is a little less efficient than, for example, a Bosch CX.
Thanks for sharing. Glad you both enjoy your bikes.
Here’s what I do not understand. Y’all have said the Specialized 1.2 motor can’t keep up with the Fazua, but Fazua has 250w of continuous power, where the Specialized has 320w of continuous power from what I can find. I get that Fazua has that boost for a few seconds up to 450w, but from what I can tell, Specialized should keep pace fine with Fazua, right?
That 320w is peak power for the 1.2 motor. Torque and internal tunes play the biggest factor between the two. The 1.2 motor prefers to do light work with a casual cadence to preserve battery, whereas the Ride60 system doesn't really care about cadence or battery preservation.
So, on flatter terrain, the 1.2 is very sporty! However ones the grade gets steeper, that power rating drops quite a bit and it isn't delivering that 320w. Feels closer to 180-190w.
-Sean
I think dji should simplify their lives and just sell this motor wholesale like Bosch. I don’t want an amflow, but I want the dji motor.
I think thee amflow is a mule bike for the motor to see how the motor holds up over the next year, i think if everythings goes well DJI will then approach the big manufacturers. Amflow was setup in 2023 i dont think it will be around long, just my views and conspiracy theory 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dji should for trail use, guys who just want to travel steep terrain from point A to point B. Only care about the calories burning fun factor. Decoy sn, santacruz heckler, pivot is more for the hardcore park, enduro rider who likes to ride agressive & lands big drops.
Any suggestions on where I can sell my current ebikes, so I can buy one of these new ones on the video?
Should we have an eBike Classified section on our website?! Let us know!
Otherwise we'd suggest Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist and then Pinkbike?
@@TheLoamWolf I think it would be a nice feature, CL is not good anymore, FB is just a bunch of flakers & low ballers asking you "do you still have the item" 100 times, pro's closet went bankrupt, and good moderated forum's are few and far.
Well alright then! Sounds like you've given us some motivation.
Great reviews guys. Shame you couldn't get Robert in on this though
Yeah he woulda been very welcome, sadly flights to get him out were a bit out of our budget.
*lets see how the parts on the amflow hold up after a couple yrs, speccially the battery. they dont mention what kind they use*
We're interested to see how the durability goes in the long term, too.
While the DJI motor is impressive, I feel the battery is what really makes it. Their battery is so much lighter but with more juice. The difference between battery companies that focused on going lean and DJI that focused on innovation.
The better battery allows you to have the more powerful motor and still ride the distances you would want.
I wish E-bikes were more affordable. Would totally get one for like $3k
The performance of cheaper eMTBs is getting there, slowly...
I think with the YT you rode the entry level model , wish you would have rode the Core 3 core 4
Agree, it likely would have improved a few critiques, and maybe dropped a little weight too.
How are they missing the low efficiency of the TQ motor? It used %4.4 more W/Hs than the SX and Fazua motors, but it went %11.7 percent slower. The strain wave transmission, (Trek calls it Harmonic Ring) is known to be %5 less efficient than the planetary gear trans mission used in the other motors. It does give you a lighter, quieter, and smaller form factor motor. The new ZF motor uses the same transmission type and I imagine it will have the same characteristics. It will be full power and run with a bigger battery, so maybe the inefficiency won't be a factor. That being said, ZF is giving us a new motor, but its battery is 750wh vs. 800wh for the newest batteries. Along with that, they use a proprietary mounting rail that adds more weight.
Why not the Giant
Trance X Advanced E+ EL 2. Light, Powerful and great Black Friday price
We had this bike in our lightweight shootout last year and our full power shootout this year. It's an interesting rig, but we didn't gel with certain aspects.
Slowly but hopefully surely e-bikes will come along the path many motorcycle and high performance vehicles all have. Think motorcycle develop in early 90s. Lighter with full power. Consumer demand drives change. We want full power 40lb max bikes. I’ll buy in once they get there. Let’s go
That'll be the day! And it will likely be here before we know it.
Going to need some time to save some money for it!
Good job! 🍻
Thank you! Cheers!
Have a look at the Cube AMS 144
One of the most important bike/ ebike for people who don't have 9k to drop on new ebikes is re-sale value. In the past 4 years and on a Heckler sl now. Lost more than 1/2 the value when selling used ebikes. $7200 with upgrade/transfer bling components from other bike. Next year can't see the santa cruz lose 1/2 the value compared to the other ebikes. Previous bike scor 4060Z lt. Norco sight vlt.
Moterra for me but maybe 29's both ends and shorter crank arms.
Canyon neuron on fly is missing 😢
We’re just finishing an independent review. Watch this space
No Levo SL???
We opted for the Kenevo SL instead. The Levo SL is fun, but shares the same drive unit considerations as the KSL.
Has anybody ever wondered why these things don’t have regenerative braking on them like a Tesla? Ideally you could select it before a long descent, and add juice back into your battery using the motor as a gentle brake, making the smaller batteries go further. 🤔
Lots of extra tech and hardware to capture the regen. Would add weight. Regen on the Tesla also causes motor braking, which is why there’s one-pedal driving. I don’t think anyone wants motor braking while descending on a mountain bike. You want friction-free descending.
@@stevebachtel Good point. Hadn’t looked at it that way. It would be cool if it could be done though.
You didn’t say I’d the Amflow was a us spec class 1 up to 20mph or a rest of the world (mostly) 25 kph. This is an important distinction as US riders can’t even get this bike yet.
Yes it’s the 20MPH cutoff for North America.
It's 850W with boost to 1KW so it's a class 4 like a Sur-Ron.
A bit sad that levo sl was not on the test this time.
And scott lumen
The Levo SL hasn't changed. Still an awesome frame with a comparatively underpowered drive unit. Good fun for solo trail riding or with other similar systems / regular mountain bikes.
Nicely nuanced reviews. So the best bikes (as bikes, motor not counted) appeared to be the Kenevo SL, Heckler SL, Ari Nebo etc. The Decoy SN was compromised by the suspension and motor - Fazua still has issues. As a bike+motor entity, the Rise LT seemed to be the best rational choice, but the motor clanks. If you don't ride as hard as to flex them, the Amflow might be the best choice and best value, too, with best SW, best power, adaptability etc. But maybe I'd consider a light (re)build of the Orbea Wild instead of any of these. I think the industry has converged around 20-21 kg eMTBs being in the sweet spot in the power+weight+range space. I expect more bikes with the DJI motor... even lower power variations, but keeping the good sides.
Nice to find guys that dig analyzing as much as I. Specialized SL owner. Agree on the drawbacks. Live in the Pacific Northwest. Squamish, Whistler, Nelson terrain. Steep, chunky rocks and roots. This bike rewards
I’d be happy to own any of them. All better bikes than I am a rider
Thanks for sharing! And appreciate hearing your feedback as an owner too.
While you definitely pay a brand premium for a Santa Cruz, it's even more so with Pivot....
Wow. A review that considers more than just motor power. This is gonna piss off the comments section.
Haha. In our opinion they’re mountain bikes first haha. 🤷♂️ But to each their own.
@ I find it fascinating so many are ready to write off everything for a bike they can’t ride based solely on motor specifications. Biggest gripe on the Ari is the rear is pretty dang progressive and hard to get travel out of past 75 percent and on a large the stack was way too low stock.
Yeah we’ve tried to steer people away who reach out and are either deciding between a way better bike with Shimano vs a bike we would not buy but has Bosch… we hope they’re happy, but a lot more important stuff than that for us.
Yeah that Nebo is a fun bike!
Your not in the retarded PB comment section now
Well, people have to educate themselves. You don’t buy an E bike just because of the motor and the battery size. It’s way more to it than that.
Did you not try the KSL with a steep HA? That bike is the most adjustable on the market you really should of changed it to reduce the wheelbase. Cmon guys
Yes, we did make several adjustments and played with the bike in multiple settings. It’s one of our favorite parts about the bike.
So satisfying that my opinion on the Heckler SL are reflected by what you guys found too. I had 1 3-hour ride on it and I fell in love! The Fazua system is decent enough but the DJI Avinox motor has really taken my fancy too!
The snappy handling, playful character but sturdiness of the Heckler SL really ticks all the boxes, I just found it didn't cope too great with tech climbs.... that could just be the mullet wheelset though
It's a very fun and good bike overall, no doubt about it.
Man I like my older rise, but I won't get another Orbea. I love wrenching on my own bike, but Orbea FORCES you to go through a dealer for ANYTHING. For example, lost a motor mount bolt 4 weeks after purchase and they wanted me to go through a dealer rather than send me a bolt. It was easier to just pay for the parts than go through that process with an online retailer. Asked about purchasing a rear triangle cuz i messed it up when I snapped pivot bolt...nope go through a dealer. Like wtf...I am trying to PURCHASE something and you make me go to a dealer.
Thanks for sharing your experience here.
These are wonderful reviews, but, really, what exactly is lightweight about a 43 to 46 pound bike?
Relative to typical full-fat eMTBs, these are lighter and more agile.
@ my turbo levo pro came 48 lbs stock, which I could weenie down with component changes. It’s 90nm and 700whr put these “lightweights” to shame. I wouldn’t call my bike lightweight but interesting that at least spesh with the sl and trek exe try to make lightweight mean what it says.
No RM Instinct powerplay SL? Come on guys
This test and filming was conducted a while before the Instinct PowerPlay SL was out or Rocky had one available to send us….maybe send the “come on” to RM and take it up with them. 😂
great work..... super interesting thanks for the hard work
Thank you Sam!
No Relay…why?
We asked, but sadly they didn’t get one out to us.
My fav is dji, price and new trend.
Kenevo sl too expensive for what it is, not powerfull enough.
Yt similar as sb165, good motor good price
Santacruz heckler is my second option
Thanks for sharing your votes!
@ hope you can review the alum frame as well, if there any diff in rigidity, weight and handling
Disappointed to not see the transition relay or giant trance elite. What happened there?
On a side note, the amflo must ride like absolute garbage for not a single person to pick it. Lighter, significantly greater range, double the torque and tried and true Levo-esque geo/suspension. My mind is kinda blown
We really hoped that Transition would get us a bike. We reached out a few times but sadly it didn’t work out. Gotta admit, we didn’t reach out for the Giant as we’ve had them in our last 2 Shootouts both full power and last year’s SL.
The Amflow definitely does not ride like garbage, it’s just that we like to ride a certain way and when you cross the line on that bike, it definitely lets you know. For lots of riders, that bike would be a dream bike!
@ thank you for the response. I assumed that was the case; no big loss as neither of those bikes offer much change from your previous reviews.
I sold my trance elite last week, with a change in bar/stem and a 170mm fork + 185x55 shock that bike is hard to beat in the SL category. Sadly, even with a range extender I needed far more range than any of the SL models can offer.
Wait....what???? No bike of the year award???🤔🤔🤔👽
Thank you for watching. We felt it would be more of a disservice to pick a “winner” as the field of bikes and their intended applications is so broad, it may tempt folks to buy a bike that would not be ideal for them and their terrain/riding style.
Our goal was to offer the most helpful bits of information for riders of all types.
It was something we debated on heavily, and perhaps we’ll figure out a better way to pick top suggestions for each category without making it seem like “everybody gets a trophy” feeling.
@TheLoamWolf yeup...defenetly a tough job, but you got to do it. That's why you get paid the big $.
You should go back and re do it...
We don't need that "it's too hard excuse "...
Haha. We'd love nothing more than to just go hit the trails and ride bikes more.
Our full power eMTB Shootout had some clear and definitive winners if you wanna go check that out.
Let's just say, for the sake of this convo, we picked the Pivot Shuttle SL as it's insanely light, nimble fast and fun. But you live in Squamish, ride double black DH trails and big jumps. Suddenly our pick doesn't make much sense. Similarly, if we picked the Trek Slash+ because it's an absolute BEAST at eating the downhills up, but you like in Florida and your biggest descent is 82 feet, well...You're probably not gonna love our winning pick. haha.
I dont know if you guys got a bum unit or what but what you described does not match my experience with the yt decoy sn at all. Its the most playful, natural jumping, hard charging bike ive ever ridden. You should get a core 3 and redo this.
Hey Kene, YT reached out and actually suggested the same thing. We have a Core 3 on the way and we're excited to try it out.
@@TheLoamWolfgood to hear. Im guessing the bike had a blown vivid. None of what you described, including seesawing, not getting front and rear to jive etc even remotely describes mine and several others experiences. Ive also demoed 3 SNs from the mill and now have my personal core 3. Every trail ive taken it on ive ridden 20-30% harder than my other bikes. Feels like the next gen in mtb.
Can't wait to ride it.
No Whyte?
No US availability, sadly. ELyte is a killer rig though, would likely have ranked well.
-Rob
@ fair enough. Great individual review would be good to see a comparison 👍👍
Love the reviews but I feel you did a disservice to the round up by not choosing a winner for this year
Thank you for watching. We felt it would be more of a disservice to pick a “winner” as the field of bikes and their intended applications is so broad, it may tempt folks to buy a bike that would not be ideal for them and their terrain/riding style.
Our goal was to offer the most helpful bits of information for riders of all types.
It was something we debated on heavily, and perhaps we’ll figure out a better way to pick top suggestions for each category without making it seem like “everybody gets a trophy” feeling.
@ yes you’re right and they are all good bikes
Sei que vou ser linchado aqui nis comentários mas as bikes, assim como os carros, se tornaram todas iguais, só muda a marca e o nome do modelo.