Prop has instant reverse, the Mirage Drive has instant shallow water ability. :) The other plus for the Mirage Drive is the ability to still get propulsion in shallow water with a little flutter kicks with the fins up against the hull.
@@thebeardedpaddler I've been fortunate with the 360. I've had one since they were released and I haven't had one issue. I firmly believe the majority of issues with the 360 were from people not doing the adjustments and maintenance.
I have had PA 14's with both the Mirage 180 and 360 drives. 180 drives - no issues, super solid. 360 - problems with both the hull and 360 drives. (Two 360 drive replacements, currently have a claim in for 2nd hull replacement). IMHO Hobie mirage drives are the best drive out there, and when they work, they do not disappoint. The 360 drives and hulls just don't seem to hold up if you use them a lot though. This coming from a guy that does meticulous maintenance. I really hope Hobie gets their issues worked out and I am a huge PA 14 fan. Until then I am looking at more reliable options and using the great info provided on Andy's channel.
Would love to see a Hobie fin drive that makes use of having 4 fins, I would imagine it would make you a little bit more tired, But imagine having two times the fins? I don’t imagine speed improving much but acceleration would be much faster.
Is it possible to swap different types of fin for different power or speed, for example a wider fin would give more power against stronger currents ? or more speed ?.
I noticed that you rarely mention Old Town kayaks even though they are an industry giants. Their PDL drive is legendary for its durability. They offered 5-year warranty on the drive years before Native that thing is bulletproof and it is definitely not a plastic-casing drive, I own both and the native l is great but Old Town had their drive figured out way earlier
If we’re talking straight up comparison on which one is better, price shouldn’t even be the conversation. From my experience, if you fish water with any type of vegetation, propel drive is out of the question. Never needed instant reverse to fight a fish and never lost a fish because I didn’t have it.
I have found on my Outback that if I need to hold my position using reverse it is due to water movement (very obvious). So once I pull the reverse line I remain in reverse using it as needed.. And for the ecology of our waterways; I can see prop scars in the grassy areas. Fins do not harm the grass. And it takes years for the grass to repair itself.
I am 70 and use an OUTBACK. I go out for 6 hours or more and am not tired when done. I have been fishing on my 2022 and can say I do not even notice when I pull the line for forward or reverse. Last week I was in 6 inches of water chasing Reds. To be honest, the fins could work there but I stood and poled. I realize that others have their opinion and enjoy their yak.
Thanks mate answered all my Qs was looking at the 120 oldtown aswell but getting the Hobie Outback as itll suit me better for my waters downunder thanks ya legend
I agree I honestly feel like most prop drives or faster than fin drives, I have both types of drive systems one is a hobie revolution and I have a old town bigwater, the bigwater is definitely faster and fights the current way better
@@bigdogford1 I have never been in a bigwater but would have a hard time believing that is faster than a Revo. I have been in Revo's and those things haul butt and cut through the water and chop
@@thebeardedpaddler He says with one fin you move 20 % slower lol but, he does not know exactly, when, it happens. This always happens in the same 4 miles of marsh. Nowhere else!
I've been running electric for a couple of years. In February I added an NK 300. Works great in lakes. Took it in the saltmarsh shallows occasionally hitting occasional mud and oyster bottom. Motor cut off several times and finally quit. Am looking for a solution that will perform well on both and not leave me stranded,, as I'm almost 80 and paddling a fishing kayak isn't easy. I love my NuCanoe, but am thinking about a mirage drive Outback as I'd have three power options: paddle, fins, electric. Any thoughts on this or on other makes, etc would be much appreciated.
Hoping people in the comments or yourself could help me with a question. I have chronic back pain and miss kayaking, but we do ocean pleasure kayaking here in the Pacific West Coast not exactly super strong surf but ocean all the same. Literally just tooling around not too far from land in sheltered waters around the San Juan islands. And I’ve been looking into pedals as a back up, or as an assist for a double kayak with my husband. Would you be able to tell me which one of these would be best in an ocean environment? Our needs are that I can’t manage paddling now but I could probably do pedals and I don’t want it to all fall on my husband if we get into strong surf or more difficulty when we’re out. Any advice would be welcomed.
I've had both styles and I like the both. If you saltwater, Hobie can't be beat... that is truly their domain. However, when it comes to lakes/rivers, I actually like the prop drives better. When you have a crosswind at the back, you can backpedal and skate along the shoreline easier while fishing. Same for fishing the flats. I just think the pedal drives are more convenient. And don't let the comment about there being more effort in the prop drives. I've never had any issue with either system as far as travel and I've been in some horrendous head winds (I live along the coast).
No worries at all. Great feedback. I think the Hobie drives are most efficient overall...I always find myself missing the instant reverse. Thanks for watching!
With that being said there is the option of Dual Drive kayaks out there , perhaps one kayak with 2 drives rather than 2 kayaks and 2 drives. I didn't no about that when I got my kayaks , otherwise it's possible I may have gone the Dual Drive route. Maybe something worth looking into , I already have my yaks so I didn't research it to much , was afraid I might see something I like , then have to sell what I have and buy again..lol Holding off for now anyway...lol
How do you feel about the Nucanoe Pivot Drive? I need a kayak on the smaller/lighter side and I'm trying to decide between a Native Slayer Max 10 (which I thought I was settled on) until I saw the Nucanoe U10 coming out. I like the Unlimited but its just way too much kayak for my needs. I guess that also leads to the question of when you think you'll being getting in some of the new U10's and reviewing one. Thanks. Love watching you videos and getting your take on all things in the kayak fishing world.
Excellent video and info. Word has it that the newer Jackson FD MK 4 is faster than the Hobie Mirages now. What's your take on that? Any comments when comparing the Jackson MK4 FD to the Native Propel (i.e. weight, durability, speed)? Thanks
That is just not true. MK4 is faster than its predecessor, but the Hobie drive is considerably faster. I ran a 14 foot Pro Angler last year and I got a better speed with the Hobie Fin Drive than I did with a Jackson with a trolling motor. Not saying someone shouldn't go with a MK4 as it's a phenomenal drive.
I use fin drive, but I get jealous sometimes. It’s such a pain to stay in one spot in the ocean, because you need to pull trigger with your hand to go reverse. When you go after blackfish, you definitely need to bring anchor with the fin drive. Also, my biggest fear is dropping the fin drive in the ocean while you launch or land. I paddle to deep enough spot to insert my fin drive in or out, it could be becuz I have really tiny space hobbie mirage sport but it’s such a pain. Propel seems like secure lift up and down, no worries about dropping and lose $1000+ drive. Trying to figure out if I can put a leash or something
I have my mirage drive tied with some paracord to an eyelit with a simple knot always. Surf launch with as much gear stowed in Hobie revo 13 forward hatch as I can manage including my fully rigged 7’ rod which slides in there. I down rig fish finder, etc. and stow on the way in. Too much to lose in a capsize. Oh, and always buckle your seat to the boat $$$! Happy fishing from Northern California!
Being an A&P technician I have learn a few things about props (work on Dash-8). I think the pedal drive from Propel 701 Series can improve if the propeller blades can be a little wider and a little aggressive angle of attack will help also for a bigger bite. Another thing the pedal crank arms could be a little shorter maybe half inch to one inch. That will reduce the diameter distance your feet have to travel and in return getting more revolution. Not to mention you get a little more room on your kayak space. Any ways good video.
The non Hobie pedal drives are weaker and more prone to breaking it too much torque applied (Hobie cranks can also break) so a more aggressive prop is going to make the problem worse. I would love to find a kayak where I could swap fin and propeller drives depending on where I planned to go.
Thank you Pelican does a fin as well as a couple of newer companies but I'm unaware if they have kickup fins. Basically they are using the older Hobie patents that have expired and building them with cheaper parts/plastic so buyer beware lol
Appreciate the response. I've already seen where 1 company has smaller diameter chain cables on their product. It was probably what you are talking about with older design. I know Hobies are the best. Thanks again
Finally someone talking about how well the Hobie Mirage pedal drive preforms in dense vegetation. I fish primarily in the California delta & I can pedal through super heavy vegetation . It slow but it will do it . I get snags on my rudder but not my pedal drive in the weeds in my Hobie Lynx. The Mirage pedal drive is super efficient I can pedal out on the delta or lakes 8 to 12 miles in a day .
Less movement to run fin drives ..more/higher knee movement to run pedals....i jave the original hobie fins ...reverse would be nice...but i just fish nose into the current and flutter to hold in place
So I'm brand new to this whole concept of Prop drive or Fin drive, and Kayaks as a whole. I'm looking for something I can take into the Gulf of Mexico, where we fish the waters at usually pretty calm because its a bay. Any suggestions? I'm 5' 10" 215, so average sized person. I'm looking at an Old Town PDL 106, at the moment. Maybe are there other companies to look into?
Begginer here. I’m 6’ 230 lbs. looking to get a fin drive kayak. I’ve been looking at reel yaks and my budget is about 1600. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
You can upgrade the Hobie fin to the turbo which is larger for $$. Not sure how much faster it is but makes a larger center “dagger board” when coupled with the Hobie sail kit🤙🏻
Prop has instant reverse, the Mirage Drive has instant shallow water ability. :) The other plus for the Mirage Drive is the ability to still get propulsion in shallow water with a little flutter kicks with the fins up against the hull.
Yes, more efficient. Less energy to run. I think the 360 issues overshadow how good this drive has been.
@@thebeardedpaddler I've been fortunate with the 360. I've had one since they were released and I haven't had one issue. I firmly believe the majority of issues with the 360 were from people not doing the adjustments and maintenance.
I have had PA 14's with both the Mirage 180 and 360 drives. 180 drives - no issues, super solid. 360 - problems with both the hull and 360 drives. (Two 360 drive replacements, currently have a claim in for 2nd hull replacement). IMHO Hobie mirage drives are the best drive out there, and when they work, they do not disappoint. The 360 drives and hulls just don't seem to hold up if you use them a lot though. This coming from a guy that does meticulous maintenance. I really hope Hobie gets their issues worked out and I am a huge PA 14 fan. Until then I am looking at more reliable options and using the great info provided on Andy's channel.
@@VentaJusta same here. Thanks for watching
I pick the prop drive and just use the paddle in shallow water.
Would love to see a Hobie fin drive that makes use of having 4 fins, I would imagine it would make you a little bit more tired, But imagine having two times the fins? I don’t imagine speed improving much but acceleration would be much faster.
Is it possible to swap different types of fin for different power or speed, for example a wider fin would give more power against stronger currents ? or more speed ?.
@@luv2bikeandclimb Hobie does standard fins and what they call turbo fins. Turbo fins are longer and I believe slightly wider.
I noticed that you rarely mention Old Town kayaks even though they are an industry giants. Their PDL drive is legendary for its durability. They offered 5-year warranty on the drive years before Native that thing is bulletproof and it is definitely not a plastic-casing drive, I own both and the native l is great but Old Town had their drive figured out way earlier
I mentioned Old Town. The Propel is definitely more durable in just the materials used. Doesn't mean the Old Town drive isn't exceptional though.
If we’re talking straight up comparison on which one is better, price shouldn’t even be the conversation. From my experience, if you fish water with any type of vegetation, propel drive is out of the question. Never needed instant reverse to fight a fish and never lost a fish because I didn’t have it.
The pros and the cons I listed are which one I would pick and where. Personally, I like the speed and ease of the Hobie drive for the waters I fish.
I have found on my Outback that if I need to hold my position using reverse it is due to water movement (very obvious). So once I pull the reverse line I remain in reverse using it as needed.. And for the ecology of our waterways; I can see prop scars in the grassy areas. Fins do not harm the grass. And it takes years for the grass to repair itself.
Many thanks, Durability is my main consideration.
Propel drive from Native
Both of them have their place. I have the prop but considering to get an fin style drive next.
The fin drives are just too delicate for me, IMO the Old-Towns pedal drive is the best one out there.
They really aren't delicate. I've seen people really rough on them. Ever since they made kick-up fins standard it seems to have really helped.
I’ve beat the piss out of my 2017 Outback and never had one issue with the 180 drive. Not delicate at all.
I agree. The old town PDL drives are great. I can travel at 3MPH with very little effort and maintain that speed for long distances.
I've had a hobie passport with standard fins and have never had an issue with durability.
Enjoyed the video. Question: what's the least expensive Hobie kayak with kick-up fins?
Passport 10.5. I believe $1799
I am 70 and use an OUTBACK. I go out for 6 hours or more and am not tired when done. I have been fishing on my 2022 and can say I do not even notice when I pull the line for forward or reverse. Last week I was in 6 inches of water chasing Reds. To be honest, the fins could work there but I stood and poled. I realize that others have their opinion and enjoy their yak.
@@teetimeaz great feedback
Thanks mate answered all my Qs was looking at the 120 oldtown aswell but getting the Hobie Outback as itll suit me better for my waters downunder thanks ya legend
Both great options. Uou will love the Outback
I love my Titan 13.5, it’s a barge for sure and slower than many yaks out there. But, I got the Titan due to its stability.
Those are huge but people love them that own one
The Jackson mk4 is MUCH faster than any Hobie fin drive. 12 to one in the ticket
Eh..... I love the Mark IV drive buy it is NOT faster than any mirage drive. I've been in them all
@@thebeardedpaddler agree to disagree.
I agree I honestly feel like most prop drives or faster than fin drives, I have both types of drive systems one is a hobie revolution and I have a old town bigwater, the bigwater is definitely faster and fights the current way better
@@bigdogford1 I have never been in a bigwater but would have a hard time believing that is faster than a Revo. I have been in Revo's and those things haul butt and cut through the water and chop
I have a buddy that keeps losing Hobie fins in the Marsh. "One at a time" He thinks juveniles Bull Sharks are the guilty party! lol 🦈
Really? wow!
I saw the first line and thought something must be wrong. lol
@@thebeardedpaddler He says with one fin you move 20 % slower lol but, he does not know exactly, when, it happens. This always happens in the same 4 miles of marsh. Nowhere else!
I get a really good feeling from you , like I could trust you to housesit while I was on holiday
@@barrettoliver2009 just leave the keys at the door!
Thanks for the kind words and for watching my video
I've been running electric for a couple of years. In February I added an NK 300. Works great in lakes. Took it in the saltmarsh shallows occasionally hitting occasional mud and oyster bottom. Motor cut off several times and finally quit. Am looking for a solution that will perform well on both and not leave me stranded,, as I'm almost 80 and paddling a fishing kayak isn't easy. I love my NuCanoe, but am thinking about a mirage drive Outback as I'd have three power options: paddle, fins, electric. Any thoughts on this or on other makes, etc would be much appreciated.
Outback is what I would go with as well. You will like the efficiency of the fins especially in vegetation. Still can motorize it also
Hoping people in the comments or yourself could help me with a question. I have chronic back pain and miss kayaking, but we do ocean pleasure kayaking here in the Pacific West Coast not exactly super strong surf but ocean all the same. Literally just tooling around not too far from land in sheltered waters around the San Juan islands. And I’ve been looking into pedals as a back up, or as an assist for a double kayak with my husband. Would you be able to tell me which one of these would be best in an ocean environment? Our needs are that I can’t manage paddling now but I could probably do pedals and I don’t want it to all fall on my husband if we get into strong surf or more difficulty when we’re out. Any advice would be welcomed.
Hobies are used constantly in island environments. The Hobie Revolution and the Hobie Oasis tandem may be great options for you to check out
I've had both styles and I like the both. If you saltwater, Hobie can't be beat... that is truly their domain. However, when it comes to lakes/rivers, I actually like the prop drives better. When you have a crosswind at the back, you can backpedal and skate along the shoreline easier while fishing. Same for fishing the flats. I just think the pedal drives are more convenient. And don't let the comment about there being more effort in the prop drives. I've never had any issue with either system as far as travel and I've been in some horrendous head winds (I live along the coast).
No worries at all. Great feedback. I think the Hobie drives are most efficient overall...I always find myself missing the instant reverse.
Thanks for watching!
With that being said there is the option of Dual Drive kayaks out there , perhaps one kayak with 2 drives rather than 2 kayaks and 2 drives. I didn't no about that when I got my kayaks , otherwise it's possible I may have gone the Dual Drive route. Maybe something worth looking into , I already have my yaks so I didn't research it to much , was afraid I might see something I like , then have to sell what I have and buy again..lol Holding off for now anyway...lol
I know the ones you are speaking of. It's not the best made kayaks out there honestly.
If you bump a rock on the prop drive will the prop kick up or bring up on the rock?
The Jackson FD drives will kick up. Most others will not.
So for the fin drive can it go in reverse as well?
Yes
How do you feel about the Nucanoe Pivot Drive? I need a kayak on the smaller/lighter side and I'm trying to decide between a Native Slayer Max 10 (which I thought I was settled on) until I saw the Nucanoe U10 coming out. I like the Unlimited but its just way too much kayak for my needs. I guess that also leads to the question of when you think you'll being getting in some of the new U10's and reviewing one. Thanks. Love watching you videos and getting your take on all things in the kayak fishing world.
Should get them in next week
I like the Pivot drive. It does clutter the deck a little though
Always great information.
Thanks for watching!
Excellent video and info. Word has it that the newer Jackson FD MK 4 is faster than the Hobie Mirages now. What's your take on that? Any comments when comparing the Jackson MK4 FD to the Native Propel (i.e. weight, durability, speed)? Thanks
That is just not true. MK4 is faster than its predecessor, but the Hobie drive is considerably faster. I ran a 14 foot Pro Angler last year and I got a better speed with the Hobie Fin Drive than I did with a Jackson with a trolling motor.
Not saying someone shouldn't go with a MK4 as it's a phenomenal drive.
@@thebeardedpaddler, how about the details on the Jackson MK4 FD -vs- the Native Propel? Any thoughts on that? Both great of course.
I use fin drive, but I get jealous sometimes. It’s such a pain to stay in one spot in the ocean, because you need to pull trigger with your hand to go reverse. When you go after blackfish, you definitely need to bring anchor with the fin drive. Also, my biggest fear is dropping the fin drive in the ocean while you launch or land. I paddle to deep enough spot to insert my fin drive in or out, it could be becuz I have really tiny space hobbie mirage sport but it’s such a pain. Propel seems like secure lift up and down, no worries about dropping and lose $1000+ drive. Trying to figure out if I can put a leash or something
Hobie does sell a mirage drive leash that might eliminate that fear
Thanks for watching!
I have my mirage drive tied with some paracord to an eyelit with a simple knot always. Surf launch with as much gear stowed in Hobie revo 13 forward hatch as I can manage including my fully rigged 7’ rod which slides in there. I down rig fish finder, etc. and stow on the way in. Too much to lose in a capsize. Oh, and always buckle your seat to the boat $$$! Happy fishing from Northern California!
@@thebeardedpaddler never knew they made that lol. $42 on Amazon…. I’ll try to buy a cheaper leash. Thanks for the reply!
Being an A&P technician I have learn a few things about props (work on Dash-8). I think the pedal drive from Propel 701 Series can improve if the propeller blades can be a little wider and a little aggressive angle of attack will help also for a bigger bite. Another thing the pedal crank arms could be a little shorter maybe half inch to one inch. That will reduce the diameter distance your feet have to travel and in return getting more revolution. Not to mention you get a little more room on your kayak space. Any ways good video.
Good feedback. Thank you for watching
The non Hobie pedal drives are weaker and more prone to breaking it too much torque applied (Hobie cranks can also break) so a more aggressive prop is going to make the problem worse.
I would love to find a kayak where I could swap fin and propeller drives depending on where I planned to go.
@@brucesummers7448 are you referring to the non Hobie fin drives?
Which is good for fishing in ponds I would assume fin drive not totally sure
Good question.
Depends on the pond. Paddle and anchor is the best in my opinion. Small lake without a lot of vegetation I like props.
Which would be best if your unfamiliar with the ponds in your area which would be the better option between the fin drive or the pedal drive
I use fins and have a Bixpy on the rudder
Nice!
Very informative video. Do u know what other brands hav pop up fins? Thanks.
Thank you
Pelican does a fin as well as a couple of newer companies but I'm unaware if they have kickup fins. Basically they are using the older Hobie patents that have expired and building them with cheaper parts/plastic so buyer beware lol
Appreciate the response. I've already seen where 1 company has smaller diameter chain cables on their product. It was probably what you are talking about with older design. I know Hobies are the best. Thanks again
@@curtiswilkerson-r2o no problem at all
Are modular kayaks okay like reel yak? I have a 2014 Toyota Prius and am an older lady so it would be hard for me to car top.
Try inflatables. There are some quality ones out there
The ponds I go to don’t allow inflatable
@@Lqviolin2 really? Wow.
@@Lqviolin2 not sure what your budget is but the Liquidlogic Versa night be an option or my wife really likes her Hobie Lynx but that it pretty pricey
Do Finn drives go in reverse?
The Hobie 180 drive does yes
Maintenance is more on fin drive
Not necessarily. Some lube once a year.
So many varying quality prop drives out there so it's hard to blanket statement on props though.
Finally someone talking about how well the Hobie Mirage pedal drive preforms in dense vegetation. I fish primarily in the California delta & I can pedal through super heavy vegetation . It slow but it will do it . I get snags on my rudder but not my pedal drive in the weeds in my Hobie Lynx. The Mirage pedal drive is super efficient I can pedal out on the delta or lakes 8 to 12 miles in a day .
Right on!
Thanks for watching and glad you liked the video
Good video, answered questions. Thanks much !
Less movement to run fin drives ..more/higher knee movement to run pedals....i jave the original hobie fins ...reverse would be nice...but i just fish nose into the current and flutter to hold in place
very true
So I'm brand new to this whole concept of Prop drive or Fin drive, and Kayaks as a whole. I'm looking for something I can take into the Gulf of Mexico, where we fish the waters at usually pretty calm because its a bay. Any suggestions? I'm 5' 10" 215, so average sized person. I'm looking at an Old Town PDL 106, at the moment. Maybe are there other companies to look into?
Fin drive Hobie in a 12ft or longer size is what I would go with. If you want Old Town I would go up to the 12 ft length instead of the 106
To the point good video
Begginer here. I’m 6’ 230 lbs. looking to get a fin drive kayak. I’ve been looking at reel yaks and my budget is about 1600. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
To me the only option in that price range would be the Hobie Passport 10.5. You may like the 12 better at $1999 though
@@thebeardedpaddler thank you!
Thank’s
Can you quantify the speed difference? Are we talking 3mph vs. 2.9, or is the difference greater than that?
Around 3.5 to 5 with fin getting the advantage
@@thebeardedpaddler That’s a considerable difference.
You can upgrade the Hobie fin to the turbo which is larger for $$. Not sure how much faster it is but makes a larger center “dagger board” when coupled with the Hobie sail kit🤙🏻
Great review! Thanks!
Thanks for watching!