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So can we talk about your 4 year old video about Sol Ring . . . . I think if you ban Crypt ban Sol Ring keeping Sol Ring is a joke it's 100% BS I am just going yo keep playing the banned cards I have because there reasoning was a copout. The precons could just swap it to a land and done that is also a BS reason. If arcane signet could be used in colourless decks fine or make more 2 mana colourless rocks. I play a colourless big mana deck and after a year of playing it found I needed the crypt to keep up whit all the coloured ramp
They banned expensive cards people use proxy’s for… If anything it’s moving away from proxy cards. Personally I hate when people play proxy’s. But I hate it even more when people play cards. That cost over $80 each to play in casual.
100% this. Don't trust any card prices, we are going to start banning unfun cards! You know what's valuable? Strong cards that wind up feeling bad! If you have a stax deck (I do not) you best sell it. Ban list should ONLY be cards that break the format (ante, karakas, etc).
Im no fan of wotc or hasboro bc of their woke nonsense. So keep that in mind before i say, pretty sure those who choose whats banned arent associated with wotc or hasboro.
Two cards I refused to play with (Dockside, Mana Crypt), one that I never palyed with (Nadu) so this is pretty decent for me. Obvouslly tons of empathy for people who shelled out hundreds (thousands in the case of Masterpieces...) for those Mana Crypt and Docksides though.
I’ve been lucky to pull mana crypts out of the ixalan sets. Never used it, have it sealed and boxed for my kids in the future to play with so they never have to worry about buying it. I personally never used it either. I support proxies especially if you own the card and don’t want it damaged for whatever reason you don’t want to use it.
@prboy6510 I never understand this caveat mindset. That it's OK if you own the card. Do you need to have the real card on you to prove it? Does having one mana crypt mean that I can have a proxy of it in every single deck? Do you need a copy for each time you use it and should have every copy on you? This caveat seems impractial and arbitrary. No proxies, yes proxies, or a real card for each proxy to be consistent and not arbitrary. But again, now we're breaching impractical.
As a very very recent proxy player - I am thankful this insanity has released me from ever buying mtg cards again. Think I might go on vacation or buy some bullion with all the money I will save :) Bee well
Here's my thing with these bans, if you're playing at higher power/cedh tables, then the idea is to win as fast as possible, so the fast mana fits in with that philosophy. I have seen all these cards played at lower power tables and the thing is that, yes they get you ahead, but most lower power decks don't really have a way to take advantage of a lead like that early in the game and every time those cards came down early, the person playing them pretty much just did normal turn 2 ramp and the table caught up after a couple of turns.
These bans just incentivized more people to proxy. If they can ban mana crypt, they can ban: sol ring, gaea's cradle, cyclonic rift, craterhoof, chrome mox, mox amber, mox diamond, etc.
It's really wild that people are trying to gaslight me into thinking that one of the best cards of all time, mana crypt, is not that impactful. If you play that card I want to play Ancestral Recall. Is that cool? My deck is not that strong so if I have three more medicore cards than you shouldn't matter right?
Magic could take a page from Pokémon’s playbook: keep all the meta cards accessible in regular sets and save the crazy high-value stuff for Secret Lair with alternate art. I mean, I totally get why cards like Dockside Extortionist hold value-believe me, I saved up for one-but for new players trying to jump into cEDH, it’s a steep climb. It turns deck-building into less of a game and more of a grind. Just my two cents as a former Pokémon player who’s new to the Magic scene, especially when everyone does not have a ply group or a friendly locals
you are right, I see with envy XD how even meta decks are afordable in Pokemon, All the cards come from the same boxes, no collectors, no bullshit special boosters. And yet they keep the value with Ultra rares with special art. The best part, a kid new to the game that can only aford one booster a week, can pull out THE ONE card everybody wants. That keeps the magic for the payers and also keep the value of each closed booster.
Your fault for wanting to play such a bland, meta, power gaming kind of card in your deck. Try to build more interesting decks rather than copy/pasting the EDHREC top 100 cards for your deck.
@@JacketVEVOwow you’re very triggered. Calm down. Just because you couldn’t afford it doesn’t mean you should take your anger out on others who do like the card.
@@JacketVEVO Oh, I'm no sweaty player. 90% of my decks are goofy jank and I've no desire to play cEDH. We just have a very competitive meta at my LGS and I wanted to play at a higher power level every once in a while because SOMETIMES playing a crazy powerful deck can be FUN.
I will not buy any sealed product anymore, and I am going to buy only singles of 20 bucks or less, I was against proxies, but now this have opened my eyes.
I feel like if you have to police a format to keep it casual it may not be a casual format. Like this breaks CEDH all because people can’t keep the social contract of a casual game
Flip side of the same coin: If CEDH wasnt so ungodfully sweaty and unfun turn 4 wins then we wouldnt need rules and bans to keep casual casual. If the CEDH players didnt bleed into the casual scene then we wouldnt need bans to keep it casual. Casuals arent the issue its the mega sweats with multi thousand dollar decks.
@@gallagher2259 fun is subjective for one so let’s knock that argument away for a moment . Does this impact truly casual decks not at all . Does it impact players who are trying to push to the edge of CEDH yes but not immensely outside of financial loss . CEDH just got completely flipped as many commanders are now not fast enough to keep up at the top level . This ban feels like it’s aimed at reducing the pub stompers who cause the feel bads which should be dealt with by the social contract . The only group this really hurts are people who play CEDH for the competitive aspect and stores who had a lot of stock that lost immense value . The rocks have such diminishing value after the first 5 turns that this ban feels incredibly unnecessary. Dockside maybe deserved it but it’s just red ramp I know it can snowball but so can green on a tear
I don't think this is for casual at all. I've never been bothered by any of these cards as a casual, people don't loop dockside to infinite wins even if it's very strong. It's trying to tune cdh down a bit and generate more creativity. It's not like cdh is perfect and they have to police casual tables running this stuff. If anything I'm gunna tell all my casual friends to keep their dockside because it's casual and I don't care.
It actually does impact causal decks though. Even just having one of these cards was a major game changer in lower powered decks overall. @@Infernofist666
Yesterday afternoon I found out about these bans and saw the market crash. Today my mystery booster 2 showed up. So I broke open the collectors packs it comes with, and wouldn't you know it I pulled a foil jeweled lots. All I could do is laugh.
@@pr0fess0rbadass I have one card in my entire collection banned so not that big of a thing. But man why the hate? Did someone hurt you when you were younger? Oh I see it's because your a young one isn't it
40€ in Europe. Yesterday you could refresh the page and see the cheaper and cheaper listings appear. I’m definitely picking up a few just in case they do retract. If not, hey they are nice decor 😂
You cannot respond to a turn one Manacrypt into signet. Their next turn, they are dropping a significant threat, which now asks for 3 forms of removal. And if your solutions "just target the PLAYER", then you are showing why it breeds unfun non-games for everyone.
@@VexylObby your argument doesn't work as turn 1 sol ring into signet makes their next turn exactly the same situation with zero life loss risk downside...
@@neillaw That wasn't what I was responding to. I was responding to turn 1 fast amana in general, being something that does its thing before it can be avoided.
If you don't get to choose who you play against then find a different place to play, or tell the event organizers to seperate into cedh and casual. If there's one player who has one deck super fast. He wins. Great, next game. If it's the same deck, say not playing against that again, choose another.. Let them understand you came there to have a back and forth game. You can say no. A fast start feels no different then a combo player who looks innocent, then combos off out of nowhere for an instant win... when the game was going good and everyone was involved, just ending it on the spot.... yay.... win.... There are too many problematic cards, but it's the play group you get to help mold... we have an awesome play group with powerful cards, and yet have good long games and positive attitudes. We choose who we sit with and no prizes for winning. Banning cards will not stop the feel bads. Ever play against a heavy stax deck? @VexylObby
The problem is those cards created binary states to the game. Either you answered it and kept playing or didn’t and most likely lost on the spot just because you didn’t have the removal.
Save this for the Future: Wizards is banning these cards so that they can release "light" versions of this card as chase cards in future sets. They can't have for example, a mana crypt and a mana crypt light without destroying the format. So, they ban Mana Crypt and then release "Mana Rypt" which is 1 mana, gives you two colourless and you take 1 damage each upkeep.
...but the ban wasn't from wizzards? currently theres no reason to think wizards has much influence over the RC and what they ban...also, why release "light" versions when they already used mana crypte and JL as chase cards...
That's just how this little known card game called YuGiOh works. If you think this is bad, then you have no idea. At least these bans make sense for the gameplay.
@@dimitriid It’s funny, because in 2010 a friend tried to get me into magic, and pulled off some infinite combo two games in a row. I didn’t look at magic again until 2020. Fast mana had nothing to do with it.
@@dimitriid Yes actually it matters a lot. Turn 3-4 the other players have a higher chance of having the resources needed to try and interact. Fast mana is a massive advantage. If you combo off turn one there are going to be players who haven't even played a land yet in casual. (Literally happened last week "its a 7 I swear" gang.) Turn 2 is going to be the same exact issue except there are a few cards at one mana that players could attempt to interact. By turn 3 there is a very good chance that a well built casual deck may have a response. So long as they didnt greed or not is another matter. But I have played those games where I had a response and just misplayed. I promise players will be 100x more tilted losing the game without even getting to play a land because some dickhead playing "casual" dropped 6 mana turn one vs misplaying with interaction. Either way though, the core issue for casual players is the power creep and the sweaty players that think labeling a borderline CEDH deck a "7" and then seal clubbing is probably the biggest issue. For CEDH players I'm not sure if this was a good move or not. Might bring a bit more diversity into the game but its really hard to say.
Honestly, the only one that hurts my heart is Dockside Extortionist… primary win-con enabler in my favorite deck is now the most expensive tea-coaster I own. Strikes me as a bit harsh too; it seems like Dockside was one of the only cards that was keeping non-blue players alive in CEDH… not anymore. Speaking of which, it also makes me wonder why cards like Thassa’s Oracle weren’t banned. Can’t you use that card to win on like turn 2?
@michaelandrews4305 Thassa's Oracle doesn't get banned because RC feels like it'll just get replaced by something else. There will ALWAYS be a dominant wincon because people will always want one. And what then? People complain about that wincon too, so you ban it? When does it end? RC would rather ban enablers that would allow people to get to their wincons faster than outright ban the wincon itself.
Ban list really only hurts cedh ( who tend to spend the most on these products) and anyone who put money into there hobby. If you dont like it in casual just rule zero them out (lot easier then rule zeroing them in) plenty of shops do it. Also i believe these allowed for colors that suck at ramping to ramp. Green can play 5 lands in one rotation so whats the diffrence.
Absolutely agree. That's why we always have a rule zero to begin with! It was never really a problem. You know what is a problem? Winter orb. Tergrid. Vorniclex. All still playable cards in the format. Gotta love this RC.
Its the exact opposite. cEDH in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter and should not even be remotely a smidgen of consideration for EDH rules that the committee due to the philosophy of EDH in itself is about Social and entertaining games for everybody. Rule 0 is not something you can expect for a fresh table, and if you DO want to play power cards, its your responsibility to rule 0 them in. EDH's rules should always be based around playing mid-low powered decks with strangers as it was the original intention, and ruling things in by your own table's admission is something that should be done more often.
@@brockwhite8699 I don't necessarily even disagree with that, and if people want to do so I think that's a good thing. But at the same time I wonder if that's actually what people want to do, since I know many people that play cEDH because its purely maximum optimized EDH decks, basically the end result of upgrading your deck through out the years. I think that's a totally different type of mentality than "I want to use powerful cards to combo out", although the end result may indeed be similar. I think the former player confine to the EDH ruleset and optimize their decks within the confines of the banlist, while the latter would simply prefer no cards to be banned at all.
@@dimitriid The issue with these cards are they were actually being played in casual commanders to justify "high cost commanders" all the time, maybe you were just lucky to not meet people like that, or maybe I was unlucky for running into people that never once said "hey I have Mana Crypt in my deck is that okay?" and proceed to use them like they dont see the issue. I would agree though that in the ideal world this would not even be necessary, but unfortunately at least from my personal experience I can 100% say that I've seen so many Mana Crypts and Docksides in people's decks (even if they had no effect on the game at all) when they claim power level 6/7 that I think the change was necessary just because its already seems to be proven that majority of people can't self regulate themselves. Rule 0-ing a card in by asking is much more easier to do than Rule 0 a card out of a 0 trust game, especially for the main target of the banlist in the first place. I do think staples should not be a thing in casual EDH at all and if something is an auto-include, it probably is somewhat of a problem. I don't even really think a Dockside in a otherwise low powered deck is even a major issue power wise, but I think for that the current situation where you are essentially playing 89 cards + 10 staples instead of 99, is a problem, and the change to neuter that situation is personally a welcome one. I actually do hope for more bans in the near future, next time much more swiftly so people don't spend 1000s of dollars on soon to be banned cards. Ultimately WotC is a huge part of the blame though, since they knew for years Dockside and JLo were on the watch list yet they refrained from printing these in masses to give people what they want, and instead decided to make them chase Mythic Rares in Commander Masters which is absolutely disgusting. All they had to do was bring JLo down to an uncommon and print them like they did with Sol Ring, but they really couldn't help themselves to squeeze that last buck out of people. I do not want to even imagine a world where WotC is in charge of the ban list because you know they are going to abuse that hard.
Here's WOTC's business plan. A) Create chase cards like Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus. B) Put them in new sets to generate hype. C) Sell tons of the new set because of said hype. D) 18 months later, ban said cards in the format, erasing their value and resetting the board. E) Wait another 18 months till goldfish players forget about previous banning, then go back to A. Hey, hey, hey, we just banned some cards, pay no attention to that, look at this MARVEL LEAK, GET EXCITED, TALK ABOUT THAT PLEASE.
The yu-gi-oh approach. And the thing about whales, they never actually give it up. They will cry and talk a big game but at the end of the day, when that set gets released, they're pre-ordering as much of the most expensive versions they can get their hands on. Anyone who whales asked for this like it or not. And wotc heard you
Sure, the RC is the problem, not wizards with commander legends/ masters, or wizards with double masters 1 and 2/ ixalan, or wizards with modern horizons 3
Yeah they hoarded the dozens or hundreds of Mana Crypts they would need to make a meaningful gain from this back when they were cheap (a time that totally existed 100%) and then banned after selling lmao
Everyone likes Sheldon and may he rest in peace, but he was a big proponent of upper class commander. During the professor's interveiw with him, he straight up said he didn't have a problem with problematic cards as long as they were expensive and the average player couldn't afford them. Maybe things are starting to change.
@@fizzyheart2486if you're playing casual just proxy, if you play any tournaments competitively, competitive cards are always going to be expensive obviously. The ban doesn't make the banned cards affordable, it makes them unplayable and worthless for tournament play.
@@tehbluu5308 that’s a pretty limited view. I think it changes how many fast decks want to get to their goal, the price changes are irrelevant from a gameplay perspective. These cards were auto included in too many strats for it to be good for the format
@@fizzyheart2486 not many in casual auto includes a mana crypt, and in any tournaments a meta is created making cards expensive, people optimize at top level plays. All banning crypt did for cEDH was made people who ran it lose tons of money and causing them to replace it with the now 150$ mana vault. The people who wanted it banned will also now never be allowed to see mana crypts in play as they are banned so it doesn't even matter if they are able to get it cheaper. Your point that game pieces should never determine who can play is invalid for competitive play.
As far as Nadu goes, no i don't believe they needed to give anyone dropping $40 on a Shuuko some notice. It's not a healthy card for any format. Anyone dropping that money should full well know its a very limited purchase. Sol Ring is not bannable. Between that and mana crypt, I cannot stress how powerful FREE is. I don't care that it's a signature card of the format. I don't care that it's in every commander deck. Sol Ring costing 1 makes it not bannable. You drop a sol ring on turn 1, you become the target. You drop a mana crypt on turn one, you're running the game. Sol ring is good, I'm not trying to say that. But it's not so broken it needs banned.
Commander has casual format, and cedh. If you want to play 5 minute games like yu gi oh, then just play cedh, if you have a compulsion to take your daily frustrations on friends, play cedh. I do not see the problem, thats why different formats exist. And yes I disagree with the bans completely, but I dont agree that all formats should be super competetive. I dont have money to build a deck for 500 euros every month.
Sol Ring is for Commander/EDH like the Artifact lands on Pauper, many blue instants on Legacy and so on so for. Each Eternal/Not rotating format has something that is allways part of the format.
I am just going to ignore these bannings. Sadly my playgroup will probably not let me run Iona... Also, Jeweled Lotus getting banned is BS. It was MADE to be played in EDH. You CAN NOT play it in any format other than EDH. WotC had BETTER refund everyone who got one of those, in full. That is entirely on them.
Here's the thing with Sol ring, it's a dime a dozen because of it's HEAVY reprintings. With Lotus and Crypt and Extortionist all of them were expensive as hell, pricing them out of a lot of people's reach. I promise you if Sol Ring cost 50 buck or more, it probably would have been banned as well. but let's face it. EVERYONE has MULTIPLE copies of Sol ring just SITTING in bulk piles of cards. Plus really it's not quite as powerful as these three. yes it's nice, especially for non green decks, but it doesn't break games when it's dropped usually.
@@demonzero677 the 2 rocks that were banned don't break the games either, compared with sol ring If the argument is due to rarity and cost, let the floodgates open 🤷♂️
I know this comment is sort of last minute but what’s some easy replacements to the mana crypt and jeweled lotus I had both in my light paws deck and honestly I can’t think of a replacement other then mana vault and ancient tomb but wouldn’t those be targeted next ?
Almost every week I play against a unique lineup from a pool of around 40 commander players. With that many players it is really hard to rule 0 bans but very easy to rule 0 exceptions. No one wants to sit down at the table and tell people what they can’t play and organizing that many people to get an official band list together is unrealistic and overly time consuming. It also puts added friction on players joining the group or learning Magic. Now they have to be informed of secondary LGS or pod bannings. There is also the question of what to do if they don’t adhere to or agree with the ban? I think it just leads to socially awkward situations. It’s much easier to have a conversation saying “I’m playing this banned card. Is that OK?”. Most of the time people will be fine with it and also it can give an indication of the table about the power level of your deck. I think these bans are super great for the health of the format and I support the RC for taking action.
I don’t like to play high powered Commander games, but I also am pretty much with Josh Lee Kwai. If people have cool cards, they should be able to play with them. If the group likes fast games, no reason to not play these cards. This is huge, I don’t blame people for being upset.
Unfortunately I feel like the RC is so slow. Lutri was like the only time they were on top of things. If they ban sol ring that would kill every precon ever and 1 card in every deck and I would be PISSED because I don't want to figure out what other mana rocks I need to work into every deck I own and what is already there
My friend group and I have hated the Rules committee since they banned Golos. We have made our own ban list now, which removed quite a few from the official ban list. I expect many groups will be doing the same soon. As far as we are concerned, the rules committee can kick rocks
I loved them for all of these bans. I stand behind the idea that we should make games more balanced and diverse for the new players and strangers that play together in our format.
...wizards arn't the ones who do the bans fomr commander tho? and the RC has always said that ban list is suggestions, and to talk with players and see whats ok and that you absolutly can always play whatever you want with your pod?
@@alexander50896 you can’t use banned cards in tournaments. They aren’t officially legal to use anymore. Which makes cards with high finical value almost worth nothing
The fact that they’re making these rules for one group being casual and then screwing over an entire another group CEDH. is just crazy to me. I think we need to give a hard thought on whether or not we need to get rid of the rules committee. Because clearly they only care about one group.
@@dantereising7757 I find it crazy that they are using CEDH mindset to ban these cards in casual plays, the rocks are perfectly fine in casual play, their arguments are pure CEDH playstyle 😂
Normally I’d shit on Mitch’s new style of videos, but bravo this one was actually good, nice job remaining pretty much neutral and not bitching like literally everyone else
As someone who had the 3/4 most expensive cards on this list, I’m admittedly salty, having saved up for them. But what really grinds my gears is knowing that the rules committee and their friends 110% sold off all their copies of these cards and told their friends to do the same, and there will be no repercussions.
The more effort they spend reminding players they can play the game however they want, the faster players will realize they’re mad about cardboard prices
Games won't take 3 hours because of these cards no longer being legal to play. Games will take 3 hours because of people casting several sweepers or because people don't want to attack. And not everyone wants to play with/against these cards. The percentage of people who actively engage with these cards is very small compared to the vast majority of players on the format. Hope this helps! 😊
@@Tetanoman The reason they got banned is because of the sheer power imbalance that happens in the games they pop up. Because then the player using these cards get targeted or get way too ahead of the rest of the table. I've seen it happen and have had it happen in games that I have played. I don't care if you sweep the board either, for the record. I'd rather have multiple board wipes than deal with these cards
Our pod doesn’t run any of these and our games are only an hour, or an hour and a half max. But that’s also because we limit board wipes to two a deck. If you can’t win 2 turns after board wiping you just artificially extend the game.
The way I see Dockside now is, like that one Pioneer precon that had Expressive Iteration in it (a card banned in Pioneer), I'd make an exception to see on an EDH table if the player is using the original precon it came from (the Jeskai one from Commander 2019). The one use I can see Jeweled Lotus now is in Vintage/Legacy as a means to power up Green Omnath to absurd levels (it's not restricted to just 1 card like Black Lotus), or perhaps that one deck archetype that benefits from sacrificing artifacts. Not sure about the other cards, though. I am in no way well-versed in the Vintage format, so I could be completely off the rails on the Jeweled Lotus idea.
Jeweled lotus can only be used in commander because that mana can only be used to cast your commander, so it’s basically just a blank card in vintage/legacy . It just got banned in the only format it was for which is just silly.
@@AprilsMoon92 Green Omnath keeps the unspent mana rather than letting it go to waste. It also gets +1/+1 for each unspent green mana, which Jeweled Lotus can provide. This is what I was referring to :P
To be completely honest, I am pretty okay with the bans, but I am also looking at it from a much longer perspective. Yes the cards are currently banned, but there is also a chance that the cards will undergo an errata to fix the issues that caused. All three of those cards could return to the format after a few years. What I think the RC is doing is sending a message to WOTC that they don't want cards pushed into the format that have not been tested or pushed. The case in point is Nadu and WOTC being completely open that it was a rushed card designed towards commander. If they had just banned Nadu, they wouldn't have sent a signal to WOTC to stop pushing so they had to select cards that were what had sold sets in the past. Unfortunately the cards that were attached to the ban were also all three cards that were used as chase cards for sets released after Strixhaven. This is more of a political move to communicate that poorly designed and untested cards would not be acceptable in the commander format which Nadu is. As for people pointing at all the other obnoxious fast mana cards like Sol Ring and Smothering Tithe, Sol Ring was left because it is a part of commanders identity as a format. Smothering Tithe is a card that is really hard to justify as fast mana. It doesn't even go mana positive until it has gone around the table at least twice. Alot of people want to point at cards that seem really fast and say that it is the problem but it never is. The real problems with fast mana become apparent when you consider what the draw engine attached to them. People don't analyze the threat assessment at this point and flip out over silly things. Most of the community reaction to the bans is just demonstrating exactly how poor the skill of threat assessment is at the moment. The RC have seen that WOTC has become the biggest threat at the table to the format due to the card design and are wanting to push them back in a different direction. Banning cards was the only tool they had and I am sure they communicated that the commander ideals and current card design philosophy were not in alignment. WOTC put the RC into a prisoners dilemma where it was continue to watch as cards and power levels got pushed to a state where bannings would be common or commit to using a tool that they had available.
Im surprised im in the minority in agreeing with the bans. Jeweled lotus was a mistake and mana crypt made tourneys a game of mull the perfect mana. I play commander to spend time with friends, these bans help that become a reality. This is even after i have to pull dockside from my pirates and prosper decks. Im happy to do it if the game goes on longer.
you arent in the minority, its just that usually people that have a problem with these things have the bigger voice, just like it usually is. I own 3 Crypts and 1 Dockside but I never was planning to sell them anyway (I don't ever sell cards) and I wasn't using them in any deck due to them feeling pretty oppressive and one sided to use in my personal experience, so I don't really feel much of a loss with the ban nor did it really hurt me in anyway. Technically a money loss but practically, because I was never planning to sell any of them it wasn't. Tbh I think they are too slow on bans which is the main issue, and made the wound bigger than necessary considering they knew Dockside and Lotus were both huge issues the moment they came out. There should be more frequent bans, and also probably a public watchlist to show which cards they are keeping an eye on, just like what they said publically about dockside before this ban, just in text form and always accessible on their site.
You're not in the minority in thinking these were good bans. The thing is the real reason most of these guys are upset is because the bans came way too late, putting a lot of people out of a lot of investment cause they thought commander would never get bans again.
I 100% agree. Lol maybe because I try to make my decks as diverse as possible, but I don't think these bans are bad. Just forces people to think a little harder for solutions. Lol there's 15,000 cards in MTG. Losing 3 shouldn't be that bad
These cards did not deserve to be banned especially out of no where commander should be a open format and cEDH is a wonderful way to play this hurts commander as a whole I hope people can see how negative these bans are
Dockside should have been banned around the same time as hullbreacher. Its used in the same way as hullbreacher just in red and not blue. Nadu feels like it got banned a little too quick because it hasn't been out long enough to see if it actually showed up oppressively at casual tables, not to mention they changed it's ability specifically so it'd have a home in commander. As for sol ring I'm comfortable guessing it'll never get banned because doing so would render nearly all of the precon decks illegal right out of the box
I think your right about sol ring. Low card value and it being in pre cons. How do you sell any old precons and new precons that are unplayable out of the box.
Absolutely nothing . This is what’s crazy to me is everything is treating these people like some official board members that can dictate what we play in our house. To me this means nothing because i don’t play at tournaments or LGSs i just play at home and with friends in my two main play groups. Were not changing anything because some random supposed committee of people said we have to.
Personally, the only one i disagree with is jeweled lotus, and that might be for a bit of a skewed reason. My pod mostly plays low cmc commanders, and i for one play the higher end. The lotus gives me even a chamce to drop my commander in a game on par with the low cmc ones. I feel lotus gives higher cost commanders a chamce to stand up to the low cost, power crept commanders. Like i said, its a personal opinion on the matter based on my pod, and i feel thats where people should decide if the cards are too strong to play in their own groups, and not live on the words of the committee
I for one welcome the bans. I think that there are too many sweaty players in the game who just aren't creative. I was running into to many people who go online and just look up "good commander decks" see nadu and go "dur i chose this one cuz broken" theres no creativity anymore. Everyone just wants to go fast and they do it by looking up meta lists online. If you get offended by this then maybe youre the problem too. Heres the thing though. I know technically its a different format, but when a card makes it to finals consistently and the deck hardly has to change to get it there, yeah it kills creativity. And so does everyone throwing mana crypts and jewled lotus. These cards have huge impacts at all stages of the game. They can bypass huge commander taxes late game, summon beefy commanders out way earlier than they could. You combine that with ALL other methods of ramp (ie tutors fetch lands dual lands mana rocks and mana dorks) this can stifle the creativity big time and just make every game the same thing over and over. They just eliminated some of the consistency stuff. Dont be mad just because you wasted some money on bricks guys. This isnt an advert for proxies either. But I got out of Yugioh because theres only like 3 decks in the meta and creativity is stifled. I got out of modern for the same reason. Id hate for commander to go the same way
I would like to add that most of my commander decks I combine from this channel and EDHREC. I may use his commander idea i may not. I may use cards from his list i may not. I try to build my own based off of him EDHREC and sometimes MTG official card finder. Not saying that makes me better. But I want to nip any accusations in the bud
Honestly, I get why they want them gone, but at the same point, I've lost games of Commander before without anyone having any real mana rocks in play early on in a game just because the rest of the table playing normally gave the ability to draw in to/set up graveyard/Tutor out a card for cheap. Wanting a game to take at least x turns is nice, but if the rest of the table just playing the game normally ends up giving 1 player all the tools they need it doesn't matter then. (And yes this has been in lower powered pods)
I'm on the casual side of things and so are most people I play with. Yet we all run these kinds of cards. It isn't about powerful, it's about how easy they are to enable degenerate game plans. So unless you're playing something gross, I'm fine with fast mana. Especially for those of us running commanders that cost up to 8 mana.
cheating on mana is the most broken thing you can do in every magic the gathering format in existence. running the most powerful mana-cheating cards immediately disqualifies you from being a casual. that's just what it is. If you are doing the broken thing then you are by definition a competitive player.
@@Martin-qb2mw If you played with us, you'd understand. Try being open to new information instead of just assuming things about other people and their play styles. I'd argue all fast mana is fine if you aren't running anything busted. Fast mana enables the broken thing, it isn't the broken thing. Miss the part about running 7-8 mana commanders in those examples?
That's pretty much where I'm at too. I don't play anything cEDH, but I have one or two decks that are high-power enough to keep up and still be fun for me whether I win or lose. Just my experience though.
@@maxv658 I have 36 decks… about 8 are probably considered high tier, but I typically just play for fun so even when I play those decks I’m not playing for the turn 3 win… just playing to play the deck cause I enjoy playing it. People are losing their minds over the game…
You are completely missing the point. It's the loss of value that is a gut punch. Those that are up in arms are those who have invested hard earned cash into cards tat were recently RE-PRINTED by wotc, (when they knew full well about the impending ban.) It's not an understatement that millions of dollars of value vanished over night.
@@valgeir80 while I understand your argument. And I agree and sympathize with you… HOWEVER, let me be clear cause I too have spent over $2k in the last year on cards… anyone spending $200+ on a single card should be looking at market trends and articles and format trends before dropping that kind of cash on a product. If you bought it and didn’t care you’re not worried about or the rules committee… I understand the point you’re driving home but you missed mine… the rules committee isn’t appointed or paid and have NO real say in the matter. It’s just a guideline…UNLESS you play it in sanctioned events. Play your $200 card man. I have 3 Gaea’s cradles, if someone said I can’t play it cause it’s banned I’ll just find someone else that will let me. This ban Only affects people who play competitive tournaments. 👍
@@sm2747-j3k i built a cedh deck for playing cedh. Its one of 27 decks i have put together. Sucks that i now have a staple card that i cant use at all. Also you dont play a cedh deck at a normal table. Its considered rude and quickly told off for it.
WOTC be like: "These are our chase cards for the set, please players, give us millions of dollars. Who knows, YOU could pull a Jeweled Lotus yourself! So cool and shiny." Player base: **Gives them millions of dollars WOTC (yes they have their hand in these bans even if only lightly): "Lol, PSYCH! You fell for that shit? Dumb idiots. See you next set 🖕" **bans the cards
So Wizards reprinted these cards for you to not buy them? If anything, it was Wizards who may have requested the RC to delay the bans so they could sell their product. Wizards has done a lot shady things in the past but they literally have no incentive to have these cards banned.
I’ve said this to my playgroup in the past, but I think that Lutri should have been unbanned a long time ago. Considering the Companion mechanic was heavily nerfed, I don’t really see people willing to cut a slot out of the deck for a counterspell they would have to pay 6 mana into in order to use it from the companion zone.
THE MTG COMMANDER META HASNT CHANGED SINCE 2016 WHEN I STARTED THIS FUCKING GAME IT IS TIME TO STOP Im so happy this is the best take they could have had on the game theres So many different ways to get around doing the same thing.The dockside does it's just different cards Stop putting man a crypt in every deck.Stop putting that in every deck.Stop putting a jeweled lotus and every deck it just got out of hand this year especially in tournament play Nadu just broke an entire tournament they loved that so much dont yall remeber telling wizards stop crying about it they did they banned that. everything stupid and ovetsaturated always had a target on their back for example BLACK LOTUS BEEN BANNED FOR A DECADE where yall just not loved growing up do yall need a hug ? Its wild
These are good bans to me and i will like playing more now, but this is also worrying when someone on the RC tweets they have been discussing these bans a year and brought them up with wotc but didn't even hint at anything, other than dockside who we knew about for a while, all the while 2 sets with cards up to ban are put out and with them being major chase cards. Now i agree this game shouldn't be about expensive cards but at the end of the day we have to deal with reality that nowadays even 40 dollars on some packs to maby get one is a lot to many when had they known it might not be usable in a year it leaves a sour taste and pushes new blood away.
I'm actually Pretty fine with most of these bans. Imo, Mana Crypt needed a ban for a long time. Dockside was wholey justified and people have been pushing for it for a long time. Nadu is fair though I never got to cast mine in my Landfall deck. I'm not sure Jeweled Lotus should have been. Since its useless Outside commander. I'd have been more for Chrome Mox or Mana Vault than Lotus. Personally I am a big fan of Banning Fast Mana and forcing games to be slower, more social and more interactive. I think tho that all this ban does is make WotC for-Commander design look bad since 3 of these were Cards designed for Commander. Especially Nadu. When Nadu got banned In Modern they made the excuse that they designed it for Commander. Then the CRC Banned Nadu. Hopefully this ends the Philosophy of Designing Commander Cards in Non-Commander Sets.
And I will note: I only personally owned a Nadu out of all of these. But I ran hate specifically for blowing up Mana Crypts in a lotta my decks. Like Gorilla Shaman & Gleeful Demolition & Mana Tithe.
the only ban i disagree with is nadu (and it's totally not because nadu made me rebuild my beloved derevi deck lol) i feel like the nadu ban was more of a bandwagon effect than anything else. i feel like maybe he was kind of a problem in Cedh, but i didn't see anything much regarding normal players.
Suckers are already driving up the price of mana vault. I’m just waiting for it to be the ultra five different version chase card in a masters set or some random placement in a collector box next year only for the RC/wizards to rug pull collectors and players by banning it a year later since it allows for five mana on turn two.
jeweled lotus and mana crypt didn't deserve to be banned I'd be open to an argument for dockside but still not ban worthy and nadu we were already told but didn't deserve to be banned honestly I hate ban lists the only time I allow ban lists is when it requires things outside of the game such as chaos orb and similar cards or some that just have terrible wordin and doesn't play nicely with the rules honestly these bans were dumb and didn't need to happen
Hmm I really don't understand the rocks without also including sol ring and many others... Is it time for us all to ban the commander rules committee from the community itself??? 😬
sol ring's a 1 for 2 colorless, with the mana crypt is a 0 for 2 colourless so it's op...like it said you can get like 5 mana in 1/2 turns which is wild
@@RR3V0 you still can do that with sol ring as a major component, it's mana positive turn 1, every other turn in the game is the exact same as mana crypt without any downside The reasons given include this pink elephant and their reason to keep it was that it was "iconic" making a mockery of their reasons to ban the crypt...
@@VexylObby it's not obvious at all, I understand their words but it simply makes zero sense unless you're going to ban sol ring as well If your argument is CEDH there are many other issues highly above this
@@neillaw If you have 1 cmc and a 0 cmc mana rock that both tap for 2 mana, you best want to ban the one that can be played for free. At least take ONE of them out. The life loss is a chance, and not even an issue if you are dropping bombs on turn 2 and 3. By the time the life loss matters, you have already won.
I own non of these cards except jewel lotus and guess what I never drew it in the deck and I got it on release maybe I’m unlucky maybe but otherwise it didn’t impact me really just means now I got to find a new card for deck 😅 that and they all got a good run except nadu but they stuck same with goblin so good
I will never spend money on magic cards again. I'm selling all my cards, playing proxies only from now on. We need a cedh banlist. Protect the slow, casual players from fast mana etc. But make a proper cedh list, maintain it. It would benefit both groups/formats
I love these bans. It’s gonna be great. Less paying through the teeth to win. I hope more bans are coming. Cards costing as much as an entire deck can be really unfair.
Anyone buying these cards I’d not want to play with anyway. Good riddance! And I own 2/3 of these guys! Pull it fine, spending hundreds on buying them? Your nuts and are clearly not playing for fun.
Hey everyone! The Kickstarter is officially live now, thank you so much for all of your support!
www.kickstarter.com/projects/commandersquarters/seven-secret-supervillains
Does the rules committee see cards before they are made. Some cards just shouldn’t exist if they are just gonna get banned in every format.
So can we talk about your 4 year old video about Sol Ring . . . . I think if you ban Crypt ban Sol Ring keeping Sol Ring is a joke it's 100% BS I am just going yo keep playing the banned cards I have because there reasoning was a copout. The precons could just swap it to a land and done that is also a BS reason. If arcane signet could be used in colourless decks fine or make more 2 mana colourless rocks. I play a colourless big mana deck and after a year of playing it found I needed the crypt to keep up whit all the coloured ramp
@@TheCommandersQuarters could you do a budget build for Arabella, abandoned doll?
This ban list justifies people to just proxy cards instead of buying expensive cards cuz they will get hit.
Just makes me wanna flip all my 30+ cards and get proxies ngl
By making decks cheaper??
ok, tha was always allowed
That, and never playing the expensive cards because they are game warping anyways.
They banned expensive cards people use proxy’s for… If anything it’s moving away from proxy cards. Personally I hate when people play proxy’s. But I hate it even more when people play cards. That cost over $80 each to play in casual.
Consumer confidence hits all time low. I can't fathom buying premium products ever again.
100% this. Don't trust any card prices, we are going to start banning unfun cards! You know what's valuable? Strong cards that wind up feeling bad! If you have a stax deck (I do not) you best sell it. Ban list should ONLY be cards that break the format (ante, karakas, etc).
Any sane, rational person now is thinking "Chinese printers go BRRR"
It's not wotc though is it ? The commander format is governed by another entity.
@@KrisHammes They're not independent from one another.
Im no fan of wotc or hasboro bc of their woke nonsense. So keep that in mind before i say, pretty sure those who choose whats banned arent associated with wotc or hasboro.
Two cards I refused to play with (Dockside, Mana Crypt), one that I never palyed with (Nadu) so this is pretty decent for me.
Obvouslly tons of empathy for people who shelled out hundreds (thousands in the case of Masterpieces...) for those Mana Crypt and Docksides though.
Let this be a lesson to stop paying so much money for so little.
I never wanted a crypt but made a colorless deck over a year ago and wanted it to keep up so I got one. oof
@@Miko_of_the_North Fortunately, there are TONS of ways to ramp in colorless that do not involve swingy cards like fast mana.
I’ve been lucky to pull mana crypts out of the ixalan sets. Never used it, have it sealed and boxed for my kids in the future to play with so they never have to worry about buying it.
I personally never used it either. I support proxies especially if you own the card and don’t want it damaged for whatever reason you don’t want to use it.
@prboy6510 I never understand this caveat mindset. That it's OK if you own the card. Do you need to have the real card on you to prove it? Does having one mana crypt mean that I can have a proxy of it in every single deck? Do you need a copy for each time you use it and should have every copy on you?
This caveat seems impractial and arbitrary. No proxies, yes proxies, or a real card for each proxy to be consistent and not arbitrary. But again, now we're breaching impractical.
As a very very recent proxy player - I am thankful this insanity has released me from ever buying mtg cards again. Think I might go on vacation or buy some bullion with all the money I will save :) Bee well
Yea only doing proxies for cEDH is objectively the smartest option. It’s the only way this sub format has lots of players.
fake player
@jackmuaddib3745
Better than a broke player
@@jackmuaddib3745 lol
So you are a broke proxy player and you are so mad for the banning a very expensive card that mostly rich people own? Interesting
Here's my thing with these bans, if you're playing at higher power/cedh tables, then the idea is to win as fast as possible, so the fast mana fits in with that philosophy. I have seen all these cards played at lower power tables and the thing is that, yes they get you ahead, but most lower power decks don't really have a way to take advantage of a lead like that early in the game and every time those cards came down early, the person playing them pretty much just did normal turn 2 ramp and the table caught up after a couple of turns.
Exactly that’s why the community is literally on fire and the RC Reddit had to turn off comments.
These bans just incentivized more people to proxy. If they can ban mana crypt, they can ban: sol ring, gaea's cradle, cyclonic rift, craterhoof, chrome mox, mox amber, mox diamond, etc.
In my experience, they always raised that person's chance of winning by double.
It's really wild that people are trying to gaslight me into thinking that one of the best cards of all time, mana crypt, is not that impactful. If you play that card I want to play Ancestral Recall. Is that cool? My deck is not that strong so if I have three more medicore cards than you shouldn't matter right?
Playing the worlds smallest violin to those players@@nevsterk2463
40$ is still a lot of money for a card that cannot be played anywhere.
It will be less then dollar it what happens to cards not played anywhere. No demand not selling it will become 99 cents
still a Colectible, I want a Tolarian academy, I know is banned but cant aford a expensive card $200 that cannot be played
Magic could take a page from Pokémon’s playbook: keep all the meta cards accessible in regular sets and save the crazy high-value stuff for Secret Lair with alternate art. I mean, I totally get why cards like Dockside Extortionist hold value-believe me, I saved up for one-but for new players trying to jump into cEDH, it’s a steep climb. It turns deck-building into less of a game and more of a grind. Just my two cents as a former Pokémon player who’s new to the Magic scene, especially when everyone does not have a ply group or a friendly locals
you are right, I see with envy XD how even meta decks are afordable in Pokemon, All the cards come from the same boxes, no collectors, no bullshit special boosters. And yet they keep the value with Ultra rares with special art. The best part, a kid new to the game that can only aford one booster a week, can pull out THE ONE card everybody wants. That keeps the magic for the payers and also keep the value of each closed booster.
I'm so bummed. I just bought a Jeweled Lotus last week. Didn't even get to play one game with it...
Your fault for wanting to play such a bland, meta, power gaming kind of card in your deck. Try to build more interesting decks rather than copy/pasting the EDHREC top 100 cards for your deck.
@@JacketVEVOwow you’re very triggered. Calm down. Just because you couldn’t afford it doesn’t mean you should take your anger out on others who do like the card.
@@Adgnor1949 I'M triggered? Bro, I'm eating good on this entire thing, watching sweaties melt down has been a blast.
@@JacketVEVO Oh, I'm no sweaty player. 90% of my decks are goofy jank and I've no desire to play cEDH. We just have a very competitive meta at my LGS and I wanted to play at a higher power level every once in a while because SOMETIMES playing a crazy powerful deck can be FUN.
@@affinityforanime Then there is a wealth of options for you aside from one of the top 10 strongest cards every printed :)
Who needs a Jeweled Lotus when I can always count on a turn 17 sol ring?
I will not buy any sealed product anymore, and I am going to buy only singles of 20 bucks or less, I was against proxies, but now this have opened my eyes.
I feel like if you have to police a format to keep it casual it may not be a casual format. Like this breaks CEDH all because people can’t keep the social contract of a casual game
Every infinite combo breaks the format.
Every tutor breaks the format to get the combo to instant win...
Let the card police ban it all!
Flip side of the same coin: If CEDH wasnt so ungodfully sweaty and unfun turn 4 wins then we wouldnt need rules and bans to keep casual casual. If the CEDH players didnt bleed into the casual scene then we wouldnt need bans to keep it casual. Casuals arent the issue its the mega sweats with multi thousand dollar decks.
@@gallagher2259 fun is subjective for one so let’s knock that argument away for a moment . Does this impact truly casual decks not at all . Does it impact players who are trying to push to the edge of CEDH yes but not immensely outside of financial loss . CEDH just got completely flipped as many commanders are now not fast enough to keep up at the top level .
This ban feels like it’s aimed at reducing the pub stompers who cause the feel bads which should be dealt with by the social contract . The only group this really hurts are people who play CEDH for the competitive aspect and stores who had a lot of stock that lost immense value . The rocks have such diminishing value after the first 5 turns that this ban feels incredibly unnecessary. Dockside maybe deserved it but it’s just red ramp I know it can snowball but so can green on a tear
I don't think this is for casual at all. I've never been bothered by any of these cards as a casual, people don't loop dockside to infinite wins even if it's very strong. It's trying to tune cdh down a bit and generate more creativity. It's not like cdh is perfect and they have to police casual tables running this stuff. If anything I'm gunna tell all my casual friends to keep their dockside because it's casual and I don't care.
It actually does impact causal decks though. Even just having one of these cards was a major game changer in lower powered decks overall.
@@Infernofist666
Yesterday afternoon I found out about these bans and saw the market crash. Today my mystery booster 2 showed up. So I broke open the collectors packs it comes with, and wouldn't you know it I pulled a foil jeweled lots. All I could do is laugh.
I just opened a few double masters packs. Dockside extortionist.
Don't invest into children's card games, folks!
Not all of us are quite ready to hear this just yet.
Lol, What kid could afford to play Magic? It's a collector hobby these days.
Jeweled lotus banned in it's only format that it's available in why makes now sense rule zero if you don't want to play against it
Just rule zero it in then, it’s easier to rule zero a card in than rule zero it out
From what I saw, I think they banned Rule 0
Can’t wait for them to meet their fans in October
just getting boo form me
October? whats going on then.
@@Gabrielarandapedroza cry harder
@@pr0fess0rbadass I have one card in my entire collection banned so not that big of a thing. But man why the hate? Did someone hurt you when you were younger?
Oh I see it's because your a young one isn't it
Imagine the price plumets off a cliff for Jeweled lotus, you buy 1 or 2, then RC caves in and unbans it
It's coming. I'm putting my money on it.
I'm 100% about to purchase a mana crypt or two. They're going for like $70 right now
40€ in Europe. Yesterday you could refresh the page and see the cheaper and cheaper listings appear. I’m definitely picking up a few just in case they do retract. If not, hey they are nice decor 😂
You can bet I'll be picking up all three if they go low enough on the off-chance this does in fact happen.
shhh don't give the people hope
Mana crypt is not a problem. Sol ring is not a problem.
4 players in a pod. 3 target sol ring or mana crypt player... or remove it. Not a big deal.
You cannot respond to a turn one Manacrypt into signet. Their next turn, they are dropping a significant threat, which now asks for 3 forms of removal. And if your solutions "just target the PLAYER", then you are showing why it breeds unfun non-games for everyone.
@@VexylObby your argument doesn't work as turn 1 sol ring into signet makes their next turn exactly the same situation with zero life loss risk downside...
@@neillaw That wasn't what I was responding to. I was responding to turn 1 fast amana in general, being something that does its thing before it can be avoided.
If you don't get to choose who you play against then find a different place to play, or tell the event organizers to seperate into cedh and casual. If there's one player who has one deck super fast. He wins. Great, next game. If it's the same deck, say not playing against that again, choose another.. Let them understand you came there to have a back and forth game. You can say no.
A fast start feels no different then a combo player who looks innocent, then combos off out of nowhere for an instant win... when the game was going good and everyone was involved, just ending it on the spot.... yay.... win....
There are too many problematic cards, but it's the play group you get to help mold... we have an awesome play group with powerful cards, and yet have good long games and positive attitudes. We choose who we sit with and no prizes for winning. Banning cards will not stop the feel bads. Ever play against a heavy stax deck?
@VexylObby
The problem is those cards created binary states to the game. Either you answered it and kept playing or didn’t and most likely lost on the spot just because you didn’t have the removal.
Save this for the Future:
Wizards is banning these cards so that they can release "light" versions of this card as chase cards in future sets. They can't have for example, a mana crypt and a mana crypt light without destroying the format. So, they ban Mana Crypt and then release "Mana Rypt" which is 1 mana, gives you two colourless and you take 1 damage each upkeep.
...but the ban wasn't from wizzards? currently theres no reason to think wizards has much influence over the RC and what they ban...also, why release "light" versions when they already used mana crypte and JL as chase cards...
It already has happened in the past, it's how we got dockside.
Also wizards doesn't ban the cards.
That's just how this little known card game called YuGiOh works. If you think this is bad, then you have no idea. At least these bans make sense for the gameplay.
Wizards did not ban these cards, it was the rules committee who is a different body entirely.
Dockside tax collector - provides tapped treasures
Won't be playing EDH or buying cards for EDH anymore. Just sticking to draft and cube now.
So we ban mana but not the easy win cons. Okay dude
@@dimitriid It’s funny, because in 2010 a friend tried to get me into magic, and pulled off some infinite combo two games in a row. I didn’t look at magic again until 2020. Fast mana had nothing to do with it.
Casuals are getting thoracled for the next year due to this🤣🤣
@@dimitriid If you play thoracle in casual then you're an a**hole.
Lol you can respond to people trying to win, you can't respond to people playing these t1 before you get a t1
@@dimitriid Yes actually it matters a lot. Turn 3-4 the other players have a higher chance of having the resources needed to try and interact. Fast mana is a massive advantage. If you combo off turn one there are going to be players who haven't even played a land yet in casual. (Literally happened last week "its a 7 I swear" gang.) Turn 2 is going to be the same exact issue except there are a few cards at one mana that players could attempt to interact. By turn 3 there is a very good chance that a well built casual deck may have a response. So long as they didnt greed or not is another matter. But I have played those games where I had a response and just misplayed.
I promise players will be 100x more tilted losing the game without even getting to play a land because some dickhead playing "casual" dropped 6 mana turn one vs misplaying with interaction. Either way though, the core issue for casual players is the power creep and the sweaty players that think labeling a borderline CEDH deck a "7" and then seal clubbing is probably the biggest issue.
For CEDH players I'm not sure if this was a good move or not. Might bring a bit more diversity into the game but its really hard to say.
Honestly, the only one that hurts my heart is Dockside Extortionist… primary win-con enabler in my favorite deck is now the most expensive tea-coaster I own. Strikes me as a bit harsh too; it seems like Dockside was one of the only cards that was keeping non-blue players alive in CEDH… not anymore.
Speaking of which, it also makes me wonder why cards like Thassa’s Oracle weren’t banned. Can’t you use that card to win on like turn 2?
Yeah I mean idk… maybe we’ll get lucky and just wait for prices to plummet, pick up a couple copies before they get unbanned like protean hulk.
You could with a lot of fast mana.
@michaelandrews4305 Thassa's Oracle doesn't get banned because RC feels like it'll just get replaced by something else. There will ALWAYS be a dominant wincon because people will always want one. And what then? People complain about that wincon too, so you ban it? When does it end?
RC would rather ban enablers that would allow people to get to their wincons faster than outright ban the wincon itself.
Just play it anyway. Who is going to stop you? Rule 0 exists.
Lol. I’m sorting through my collections now. Most deff taking a bow out of MTG
Ban list really only hurts cedh ( who tend to spend the most on these products) and anyone who put money into there hobby. If you dont like it in casual just rule zero them out (lot easier then rule zeroing them in) plenty of shops do it. Also i believe these allowed for colors that suck at ramping to ramp. Green can play 5 lands in one rotation so whats the diffrence.
Absolutely agree. That's why we always have a rule zero to begin with! It was never really a problem. You know what is a problem? Winter orb. Tergrid. Vorniclex. All still playable cards in the format. Gotta love this RC.
Its the exact opposite. cEDH in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter and should not even be remotely a smidgen of consideration for EDH rules that the committee due to the philosophy of EDH in itself is about Social and entertaining games for everybody. Rule 0 is not something you can expect for a fresh table, and if you DO want to play power cards, its your responsibility to rule 0 them in. EDH's rules should always be based around playing mid-low powered decks with strangers as it was the original intention, and ruling things in by your own table's admission is something that should be done more often.
@@BDtetra I think you've made a very good case for a separate RC for cEDH.
@@brockwhite8699 I don't necessarily even disagree with that, and if people want to do so I think that's a good thing.
But at the same time I wonder if that's actually what people want to do, since I know many people that play cEDH because its purely maximum optimized EDH decks, basically the end result of upgrading your deck through out the years. I think that's a totally different type of mentality than "I want to use powerful cards to combo out", although the end result may indeed be similar. I think the former player confine to the EDH ruleset and optimize their decks within the confines of the banlist, while the latter would simply prefer no cards to be banned at all.
@@dimitriid The issue with these cards are they were actually being played in casual commanders to justify "high cost commanders" all the time, maybe you were just lucky to not meet people like that, or maybe I was unlucky for running into people that never once said "hey I have Mana Crypt in my deck is that okay?" and proceed to use them like they dont see the issue.
I would agree though that in the ideal world this would not even be necessary, but unfortunately at least from my personal experience I can 100% say that I've seen so many Mana Crypts and Docksides in people's decks (even if they had no effect on the game at all) when they claim power level 6/7 that I think the change was necessary just because its already seems to be proven that majority of people can't self regulate themselves. Rule 0-ing a card in by asking is much more easier to do than Rule 0 a card out of a 0 trust game, especially for the main target of the banlist in the first place.
I do think staples should not be a thing in casual EDH at all and if something is an auto-include, it probably is somewhat of a problem. I don't even really think a Dockside in a otherwise low powered deck is even a major issue power wise, but I think for that the current situation where you are essentially playing 89 cards + 10 staples instead of 99, is a problem, and the change to neuter that situation is personally a welcome one. I actually do hope for more bans in the near future, next time much more swiftly so people don't spend 1000s of dollars on soon to be banned cards.
Ultimately WotC is a huge part of the blame though, since they knew for years Dockside and JLo were on the watch list yet they refrained from printing these in masses to give people what they want, and instead decided to make them chase Mythic Rares in Commander Masters which is absolutely disgusting. All they had to do was bring JLo down to an uncommon and print them like they did with Sol Ring, but they really couldn't help themselves to squeeze that last buck out of people. I do not want to even imagine a world where WotC is in charge of the ban list because you know they are going to abuse that hard.
If even a single copy of any of these cards was sold in the last few weeks by anyone on or near the rules committee, I call bullshit.
Congress. You’re thinking of Congress.
@@TheARehmar agreed, I can only assume this as the reasons are dumb unless you're hitting sol ring as well
Here's WOTC's business plan.
A) Create chase cards like Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus.
B) Put them in new sets to generate hype.
C) Sell tons of the new set because of said hype.
D) 18 months later, ban said cards in the format, erasing their value and resetting the board.
E) Wait another 18 months till goldfish players forget about previous banning, then go back to A.
Hey, hey, hey, we just banned some cards, pay no attention to that, look at this MARVEL LEAK, GET EXCITED, TALK ABOUT THAT PLEASE.
The yu-gi-oh approach. And the thing about whales, they never actually give it up. They will cry and talk a big game but at the end of the day, when that set gets released, they're pre-ordering as much of the most expensive versions they can get their hands on. Anyone who whales asked for this like it or not. And wotc heard you
I really hate these bans and until the rules committee shows their sell list, I 100% believe they inside traded their cards before this ban.
Sure, the RC is the problem, not wizards with commander legends/ masters, or wizards with double masters 1 and 2/ ixalan, or wizards with modern horizons 3
Conspiracy theories will always exist where there is non-information.
WOTC sanctioned this. They stole your money if you had these cards.
Yeah they hoarded the dozens or hundreds of Mana Crypts they would need to make a meaningful gain from this back when they were cheap (a time that totally existed 100%) and then banned after selling lmao
Everyone likes Sheldon and may he rest in peace, but he was a big proponent of upper class commander. During the professor's interveiw with him, he straight up said he didn't have a problem with problematic cards as long as they were expensive and the average player couldn't afford them. Maybe things are starting to change.
I for one miss him, especially now
Price of game pieces should never be the determiner of who can play
@@fizzyheart2486if you're playing casual just proxy, if you play any tournaments competitively, competitive cards are always going to be expensive obviously. The ban doesn't make the banned cards affordable, it makes them unplayable and worthless for tournament play.
@@tehbluu5308 that’s a pretty limited view. I think it changes how many fast decks want to get to their goal, the price changes are irrelevant from a gameplay perspective. These cards were auto included in too many strats for it to be good for the format
@@fizzyheart2486 not many in casual auto includes a mana crypt, and in any tournaments a meta is created making cards expensive, people optimize at top level plays. All banning crypt did for cEDH was made people who ran it lose tons of money and causing them to replace it with the now 150$ mana vault. The people who wanted it banned will also now never be allowed to see mana crypts in play as they are banned so it doesn't even matter if they are able to get it cheaper. Your point that game pieces should never determine who can play is invalid for competitive play.
I'm glad I limit my commander decks to less than $100 and no single card greater than $10 to keep things casual and avoid most cards on any ban list.
As far as Nadu goes, no i don't believe they needed to give anyone dropping $40 on a Shuuko some notice. It's not a healthy card for any format. Anyone dropping that money should full well know its a very limited purchase.
Sol Ring is not bannable. Between that and mana crypt, I cannot stress how powerful FREE is. I don't care that it's a signature card of the format. I don't care that it's in every commander deck. Sol Ring costing 1 makes it not bannable. You drop a sol ring on turn 1, you become the target. You drop a mana crypt on turn one, you're running the game.
Sol ring is good, I'm not trying to say that. But it's not so broken it needs banned.
Commander… The “please don’t hurt my feelings” format.
Modern players be like: first time?
You missed the greatest part about it: Now it's basically the *ONLY* lively format as well, WOW!
I hit everyone and build carnage. 🤣 I play aggressive. I guess I am the one hurting the feelings? People do seem upset in my friend group.
@@captainhook8138 I play stax and Zur. It’s fun. For me :)
Commander has casual format, and cedh. If you want to play 5 minute games like yu gi oh, then just play cedh, if you have a compulsion to take your daily frustrations on friends, play cedh. I do not see the problem, thats why different formats exist. And yes I disagree with the bans completely, but I dont agree that all formats should be super competetive. I dont have money to build a deck for 500 euros every month.
Sol Ring is for Commander/EDH like the Artifact lands on Pauper, many blue instants on Legacy and so on so for. Each Eternal/Not rotating format has something that is allways part of the format.
Playing since 1998. I'm sad to see mana crypt go.
It hasn’t gone anywhere. They don’t dictate how anyone plays except tournaments . They have no real power. You can make your deck whatever you want
Same.
I am just going to ignore these bannings. Sadly my playgroup will probably not let me run Iona...
Also, Jeweled Lotus getting banned is BS. It was MADE to be played in EDH. You CAN NOT play it in any format other than EDH. WotC had BETTER refund everyone who got one of those, in full. That is entirely on them.
Rocks should not be banned, their ban do NOTING for casual edh, and ruined cedh and financial part of the mtg.
You have any budget recommendations for mana crypt alternative?
Here's the thing with Sol ring, it's a dime a dozen because of it's HEAVY reprintings. With Lotus and Crypt and Extortionist all of them were expensive as hell, pricing them out of a lot of people's reach. I promise you if Sol Ring cost 50 buck or more, it probably would have been banned as well. but let's face it. EVERYONE has MULTIPLE copies of Sol ring just SITTING in bulk piles of cards. Plus really it's not quite as powerful as these three. yes it's nice, especially for non green decks, but it doesn't break games when it's dropped usually.
@@demonzero677 the 2 rocks that were banned don't break the games either, compared with sol ring
If the argument is due to rarity and cost, let the floodgates open 🤷♂️
@@neillawthey do break the game ;-;
I know this comment is sort of last minute but what’s some easy replacements to the mana crypt and jeweled lotus I had both in my light paws deck and honestly I can’t think of a replacement other then mana vault and ancient tomb but wouldn’t those be targeted next ?
Almost every week I play against a unique lineup from a pool of around 40 commander players. With that many players it is really hard to rule 0 bans but very easy to rule 0 exceptions.
No one wants to sit down at the table and tell people what they can’t play and organizing that many people to get an official band list together is unrealistic and overly time consuming. It also puts added friction on players joining the group or learning Magic. Now they have to be informed of secondary LGS or pod bannings.
There is also the question of what to do if they don’t adhere to or agree with the ban? I think it just leads to socially awkward situations. It’s much easier to have a conversation saying “I’m playing this banned card. Is that OK?”. Most of the time people will be fine with it and also it can give an indication of the table about the power level of your deck. I think these bans are super great for the health of the format and I support the RC for taking action.
I don’t like to play high powered Commander games, but I also am pretty much with Josh Lee Kwai. If people have cool cards, they should be able to play with them. If the group likes fast games, no reason to not play these cards. This is huge, I don’t blame people for being upset.
Unfortunately I feel like the RC is so slow. Lutri was like the only time they were on top of things. If they ban sol ring that would kill every precon ever and 1 card in every deck and I would be PISSED because I don't want to figure out what other mana rocks I need to work into every deck I own and what is already there
My friend group and I have hated the Rules committee since they banned Golos. We have made our own ban list now, which removed quite a few from the official ban list. I expect many groups will be doing the same soon. As far as we are concerned, the rules committee can kick rocks
I loved them for all of these bans. I stand behind the idea that we should make games more balanced and diverse for the new players and strangers that play together in our format.
(also, I had a Golos deck, and was happy to see it's boring gameplay perish)
Golos was a piece of 💩 card. Ramp, colorless 5 color cheese and 3 free cards was broken asf! Good riddance
If wizards wanted to make a separation between cedh and edh this wasn’t the way to do. I will happily and gladly ignore these bans
...wizards arn't the ones who do the bans fomr commander tho? and the RC has always said that ban list is suggestions, and to talk with players and see whats ok and that you absolutly can always play whatever you want with your pod?
It's not wizards 🤦♂️
@@alexander50896 you can’t use banned cards in tournaments. They aren’t officially legal to use anymore. Which makes cards with high finical value almost worth nothing
Cope
I would love to look into who on the RC unloaded all the banned cards before they announced it..
The fact that they’re making these rules for one group being casual and then screwing over an entire another group CEDH. is just crazy to me. I think we need to give a hard thought on whether or not we need to get rid of the rules committee. Because clearly they only care about one group.
@@dantereising7757 I find it crazy that they are using CEDH mindset to ban these cards in casual plays, the rocks are perfectly fine in casual play, their arguments are pure CEDH playstyle 😂
Surely this is not a change aimed at casuals seeing as i have never seen any of these cards.
Normally I’d shit on Mitch’s new style of videos, but bravo this one was actually good, nice job remaining pretty much neutral and not bitching like literally everyone else
As someone who had the 3/4 most expensive cards on this list, I’m admittedly salty, having saved up for them.
But what really grinds my gears is knowing that the rules committee and their friends 110% sold off all their copies of these cards and told their friends to do the same, and there will be no repercussions.
I play a lot of decks with green and even I think this is a terrible idea. Now non-green decks have less ramp making green even better...
The more effort they spend reminding players they can play the game however they want, the faster players will realize they’re mad about cardboard prices
I hate 3 hour games. These bans weren't worth the financial hit. Im sorry the care bears hate losing.
Games won't take 3 hours because of these cards no longer being legal to play. Games will take 3 hours because of people casting several sweepers or because people don't want to attack. And not everyone wants to play with/against these cards. The percentage of people who actively engage with these cards is very small compared to the vast majority of players on the format. Hope this helps! 😊
@@draciel117 Then why ban them. The format wasn't hurting then. Play interaction because it's fun. If you struggle with that just play Uno.
3 hour games? Lol. I hate 8 hour games. lol. 1-1.5 hours a game is reasonable… .5 hours a game is very competitive. 🤷🏻 just my take.
@@Tetanoman The reason they got banned is because of the sheer power imbalance that happens in the games they pop up. Because then the player using these cards get targeted or get way too ahead of the rest of the table. I've seen it happen and have had it happen in games that I have played. I don't care if you sweep the board either, for the record. I'd rather have multiple board wipes than deal with these cards
Our pod doesn’t run any of these and our games are only an hour, or an hour and a half max. But that’s also because we limit board wipes to two a deck. If you can’t win 2 turns after board wiping you just artificially extend the game.
When I played against Nadu it just meant I’m going on my phone and not paying attention anymore.
Massive win for normal groups that aren’t trying to be sweaty over a casual format 👌
The way I see Dockside now is, like that one Pioneer precon that had Expressive Iteration in it (a card banned in Pioneer), I'd make an exception to see on an EDH table if the player is using the original precon it came from (the Jeskai one from Commander 2019).
The one use I can see Jeweled Lotus now is in Vintage/Legacy as a means to power up Green Omnath to absurd levels (it's not restricted to just 1 card like Black Lotus), or perhaps that one deck archetype that benefits from sacrificing artifacts. Not sure about the other cards, though. I am in no way well-versed in the Vintage format, so I could be completely off the rails on the Jeweled Lotus idea.
Jeweled lotus can only be used in commander because that mana can only be used to cast your commander, so it’s basically just a blank card in vintage/legacy . It just got banned in the only format it was for which is just silly.
@@AprilsMoon92 Green Omnath keeps the unspent mana rather than letting it go to waste. It also gets +1/+1 for each unspent green mana, which Jeweled Lotus can provide. This is what I was referring to :P
@@fsfreturns5242 That's a cool interaction!
The Jewelled Lotus price history looks like the grand canyon right now lmfaooooo
To be completely honest, I am pretty okay with the bans, but I am also looking at it from a much longer perspective. Yes the cards are currently banned, but there is also a chance that the cards will undergo an errata to fix the issues that caused. All three of those cards could return to the format after a few years. What I think the RC is doing is sending a message to WOTC that they don't want cards pushed into the format that have not been tested or pushed. The case in point is Nadu and WOTC being completely open that it was a rushed card designed towards commander.
If they had just banned Nadu, they wouldn't have sent a signal to WOTC to stop pushing so they had to select cards that were what had sold sets in the past. Unfortunately the cards that were attached to the ban were also all three cards that were used as chase cards for sets released after Strixhaven. This is more of a political move to communicate that poorly designed and untested cards would not be acceptable in the commander format which Nadu is.
As for people pointing at all the other obnoxious fast mana cards like Sol Ring and Smothering Tithe, Sol Ring was left because it is a part of commanders identity as a format. Smothering Tithe is a card that is really hard to justify as fast mana. It doesn't even go mana positive until it has gone around the table at least twice.
Alot of people want to point at cards that seem really fast and say that it is the problem but it never is. The real problems with fast mana become apparent when you consider what the draw engine attached to them.
People don't analyze the threat assessment at this point and flip out over silly things. Most of the community reaction to the bans is just demonstrating exactly how poor the skill of threat assessment is at the moment. The RC have seen that WOTC has become the biggest threat at the table to the format due to the card design and are wanting to push them back in a different direction. Banning cards was the only tool they had and I am sure they communicated that the commander ideals and current card design philosophy were not in alignment. WOTC put the RC into a prisoners dilemma where it was continue to watch as cards and power levels got pushed to a state where bannings would be common or commit to using a tool that they had available.
This is why I stopped collecting. It destroys value, and makes it a bad investment.
Finance ghouls can stay malding
Dude, it's a card game
Treating the game as an investment was your first mistake.
Im surprised im in the minority in agreeing with the bans. Jeweled lotus was a mistake and mana crypt made tourneys a game of mull the perfect mana. I play commander to spend time with friends, these bans help that become a reality. This is even after i have to pull dockside from my pirates and prosper decks. Im happy to do it if the game goes on longer.
you arent in the minority, its just that usually people that have a problem with these things have the bigger voice, just like it usually is.
I own 3 Crypts and 1 Dockside but I never was planning to sell them anyway (I don't ever sell cards) and I wasn't using them in any deck due to them feeling pretty oppressive and one sided to use in my personal experience, so I don't really feel much of a loss with the ban nor did it really hurt me in anyway. Technically a money loss but practically, because I was never planning to sell any of them it wasn't. Tbh I think they are too slow on bans which is the main issue, and made the wound bigger than necessary considering they knew Dockside and Lotus were both huge issues the moment they came out. There should be more frequent bans, and also probably a public watchlist to show which cards they are keeping an eye on, just like what they said publically about dockside before this ban, just in text form and always accessible on their site.
@@BDtetra thats a really good point bro, they should have been more attentive. It shouldn’t have taken nadu for this to happen.
You're not in the minority in thinking these were good bans. The thing is the real reason most of these guys are upset is because the bans came way too late, putting a lot of people out of a lot of investment cause they thought commander would never get bans again.
I 100% agree. Lol maybe because I try to make my decks as diverse as possible, but I don't think these bans are bad. Just forces people to think a little harder for solutions. Lol there's 15,000 cards in MTG. Losing 3 shouldn't be that bad
These cards did not deserve to be banned especially out of no where commander should be a open format and cEDH is a wonderful way to play this hurts commander as a whole I hope people can see how negative these bans are
In terms of the timing of the bans, I don't think it's a coincidence that these occurred not too long after Sheldon's passing.
great way to usher in the post sheldon era. It's been long enough
Not too long? .... a year?
How many commander players did they lose? Was this worth it?
Dockside should have been banned around the same time as hullbreacher. Its used in the same way as hullbreacher just in red and not blue. Nadu feels like it got banned a little too quick because it hasn't been out long enough to see if it actually showed up oppressively at casual tables, not to mention they changed it's ability specifically so it'd have a home in commander. As for sol ring I'm comfortable guessing it'll never get banned because doing so would render nearly all of the precon decks illegal right out of the box
I’ll proxy everything from here on out.
I think your right about sol ring. Low card value and it being in pre cons. How do you sell any old precons and new precons that are unplayable out of the box.
What prevents the cEDH community from ignoring this list and just allowing the banned cards to be played? Sponsorships?
Absolutely nothing . This is what’s crazy to me is everything is treating these people like some official board members that can dictate what we play in our house. To me this means nothing because i don’t play at tournaments or LGSs i just play at home and with friends in my two main play groups. Were not changing anything because some random supposed committee of people said we have to.
Personally, the only one i disagree with is jeweled lotus, and that might be for a bit of a skewed reason. My pod mostly plays low cmc commanders, and i for one play the higher end. The lotus gives me even a chamce to drop my commander in a game on par with the low cmc ones. I feel lotus gives higher cost commanders a chamce to stand up to the low cost, power crept commanders. Like i said, its a personal opinion on the matter based on my pod, and i feel thats where people should decide if the cards are too strong to play in their own groups, and not live on the words of the committee
I for one welcome the bans. I think that there are too many sweaty players in the game who just aren't creative. I was running into to many people who go online and just look up "good commander decks" see nadu and go "dur i chose this one cuz broken" theres no creativity anymore. Everyone just wants to go fast and they do it by looking up meta lists online. If you get offended by this then maybe youre the problem too.
Heres the thing though. I know technically its a different format, but when a card makes it to finals consistently and the deck hardly has to change to get it there, yeah it kills creativity. And so does everyone throwing mana crypts and jewled lotus.
These cards have huge impacts at all stages of the game. They can bypass huge commander taxes late game, summon beefy commanders out way earlier than they could. You combine that with ALL other methods of ramp (ie tutors fetch lands dual lands mana rocks and mana dorks) this can stifle the creativity big time and just make every game the same thing over and over. They just eliminated some of the consistency stuff.
Dont be mad just because you wasted some money on bricks guys. This isnt an advert for proxies either. But I got out of Yugioh because theres only like 3 decks in the meta and creativity is stifled. I got out of modern for the same reason. Id hate for commander to go the same way
I would like to add that most of my commander decks I combine from this channel and EDHREC. I may use his commander idea i may not. I may use cards from his list i may not. I try to build my own based off of him EDHREC and sometimes MTG official card finder. Not saying that makes me better. But I want to nip any accusations in the bud
Typical Yu Gi Oh player response. You’re not getting a creativity trophy. Rule 0 exists for a reason
@@hhdrathktekken7964 don't want a trophy. Just want to have fun. Kinda hard to do with all the sweats. Sounds like you're one of those sweats too lol.
Me watching this as a Yu-gi-oh! Player: "First time?"
Honestly, I get why they want them gone, but at the same point, I've lost games of Commander before without anyone having any real mana rocks in play early on in a game just because the rest of the table playing normally gave the ability to draw in to/set up graveyard/Tutor out a card for cheap. Wanting a game to take at least x turns is nice, but if the rest of the table just playing the game normally ends up giving 1 player all the tools they need it doesn't matter then. (And yes this has been in lower powered pods)
Lmao. I love the ZERO BAN list of my kitchen table. My group has tons of fun with all these OP cards.
I'm on the casual side of things and so are most people I play with. Yet we all run these kinds of cards. It isn't about powerful, it's about how easy they are to enable degenerate game plans. So unless you're playing something gross, I'm fine with fast mana. Especially for those of us running commanders that cost up to 8 mana.
cheating on mana is the most broken thing you can do in every magic the gathering format in existence. running the most powerful mana-cheating cards immediately disqualifies you from being a casual. that's just what it is. If you are doing the broken thing then you are by definition a competitive player.
If you're running those cards, you aren't on the casual side of things
@@lmuserl Not true... intent is everything. Running a jeweled lotus in a bosh the iron golem deck is totally reasonable.
@@Martin-qb2mw If you played with us, you'd understand. Try being open to new information instead of just assuming things about other people and their play styles. I'd argue all fast mana is fine if you aren't running anything busted. Fast mana enables the broken thing, it isn't the broken thing. Miss the part about running 7-8 mana commanders in those examples?
How much do you guys spend on average on your Commander decks? Expensive decks are not casual, neither are expensive cards imo
The ban list is more a guideline than actual rules. I for one won't be mad at anyone who continues to run this
My point exactly. Thank you. Lol
That's pretty much where I'm at too. I don't play anything cEDH, but I have one or two decks that are high-power enough to keep up and still be fun for me whether I win or lose. Just my experience though.
@@maxv658 I have 36 decks… about 8 are probably considered high tier, but I typically just play for fun so even when I play those decks I’m not playing for the turn 3 win… just playing to play the deck cause I enjoy playing it. People are losing their minds over the game…
You are completely missing the point. It's the loss of value that is a gut punch. Those that are up in arms are those who have invested hard earned cash into cards tat were recently RE-PRINTED by wotc, (when they knew full well about the impending ban.) It's not an understatement that millions of dollars of value vanished over night.
@@valgeir80 while I understand your argument. And I agree and sympathize with you… HOWEVER, let me be clear cause I too have spent over $2k in the last year on cards… anyone spending $200+ on a single card should be looking at market trends and articles and format trends before dropping that kind of cash on a product. If you bought it and didn’t care you’re not worried about or the rules committee… I understand the point you’re driving home but you missed mine… the rules committee isn’t appointed or paid and have NO real say in the matter. It’s just a guideline…UNLESS you play it in sanctioned events. Play your $200 card man. I have 3 Gaea’s cradles, if someone said I can’t play it cause it’s banned I’ll just find someone else that will let me. This ban Only affects people who play competitive tournaments. 👍
There should be a seperate list for cedh, because this makes jeweled lotus unplayable in general
would be fine with that entirely. Let them have their own format and play with every overpriced and busted card.
@@sm2747-j3k i built a cedh deck for playing cedh. Its one of 27 decks i have put together. Sucks that i now have a staple card that i cant use at all. Also you dont play a cedh deck at a normal table. Its considered rude and quickly told off for it.
They only banning things because Sheldon died. Eff the RC.
WOTC be like:
"These are our chase cards for the set, please players, give us millions of dollars. Who knows, YOU could pull a Jeweled Lotus yourself! So cool and shiny."
Player base:
**Gives them millions of dollars
WOTC (yes they have their hand in these bans even if only lightly):
"Lol, PSYCH! You fell for that shit? Dumb idiots. See you next set 🖕" **bans the cards
The guys who decide what gets banned don't actually work for wizards. They are separate and Wizards does not officially have influence over them.
They knew, it was going to be banned.
So Wizards reprinted these cards for you to not buy them? If anything, it was Wizards who may have requested the RC to delay the bans so they could sell their product. Wizards has done a lot shady things in the past but they literally have no incentive to have these cards banned.
I'm glad that they don't ban Sol Ring. Because I like it
Like it or not Sol Ring is commander's mascot. Could you imagine if the pokemon company banned pickachu? It just would never happen.
Lutri is not simic. It is izzet. Just correcting the error.
I managed to get an answer from Jim about mana vault and he compared it to a ritual for why it wasn't banned
it's wild seeing the prices of these cards in this vidya as compared to the earlier ones and how far they've already fallen.
I’ve said this to my playgroup in the past, but I think that Lutri should have been unbanned a long time ago. Considering the Companion mechanic was heavily nerfed, I don’t really see people willing to cut a slot out of the deck for a counterspell they would have to pay 6 mana into in order to use it from the companion zone.
THE MTG COMMANDER META HASNT CHANGED SINCE 2016 WHEN I STARTED THIS FUCKING GAME
IT IS TIME TO STOP
Im so happy this is the best take they could have had on the game theres So many different ways to get around doing the same thing.The dockside does it's just different cards Stop putting man a crypt in every deck.Stop putting that in every deck.Stop putting a jeweled lotus and every deck it just got out of hand this year especially in tournament play Nadu just broke an entire tournament they loved that so much dont yall remeber telling wizards stop crying about it
they did they banned that. everything stupid and ovetsaturated always had a target on their back
for example BLACK LOTUS BEEN BANNED FOR A DECADE
where yall just not loved growing up do yall need a hug ? Its wild
I'm so happy that this happened!!
These are good bans to me and i will like playing more now, but this is also worrying when someone on the RC tweets they have been discussing these bans a year and brought them up with wotc but didn't even hint at anything, other than dockside who we knew about for a while, all the while 2 sets with cards up to ban are put out and with them being major chase cards. Now i agree this game shouldn't be about expensive cards but at the end of the day we have to deal with reality that nowadays even 40 dollars on some packs to maby get one is a lot to many when had they known it might not be usable in a year it leaves a sour taste and pushes new blood away.
I'm actually Pretty fine with most of these bans.
Imo, Mana Crypt needed a ban for a long time.
Dockside was wholey justified and people have been pushing for it for a long time.
Nadu is fair though I never got to cast mine in my Landfall deck.
I'm not sure Jeweled Lotus should have been. Since its useless Outside commander. I'd have been more for Chrome Mox or Mana Vault than Lotus. Personally I am a big fan of Banning Fast Mana and forcing games to be slower, more social and more interactive.
I think tho that all this ban does is make WotC for-Commander design look bad since 3 of these were Cards designed for Commander. Especially Nadu. When Nadu got banned In Modern they made the excuse that they designed it for Commander. Then the CRC Banned Nadu. Hopefully this ends the Philosophy of Designing Commander Cards in Non-Commander Sets.
And I will note: I only personally owned a Nadu out of all of these. But I ran hate specifically for blowing up Mana Crypts in a lotta my decks. Like Gorilla Shaman & Gleeful Demolition & Mana Tithe.
Nadu is annoying but have you ever played against sakashima/krark?
You live and die by the gambles of coin flips its fair
@@mibbzx1493 takes forever uncertain nearinfinite combos suck
Sol ring Banned.
You mentioned the samething I told to my friends.
Banning Sol Ring make Precons illegal so It's not good for business
Imagine taking the RC ban lists as anything other than suggestions.
I think the fact Sol Ring is far cheaper than other fast mana is a reason it’s not banned … it’s easily accessible to everyone
I bought jeweled lotus texturized and mana crypt full art foil last week, dont even have them yet 😢
the only ban i disagree with is nadu (and it's totally not because nadu made me rebuild my beloved derevi deck lol)
i feel like the nadu ban was more of a bandwagon effect than anything else. i feel like maybe he was kind of a problem in Cedh, but i didn't see anything much regarding normal players.
Suckers are already driving up the price of mana vault. I’m just waiting for it to be the ultra five different version chase card in a masters set or some random placement in a collector box next year only for the RC/wizards to rug pull collectors and players by banning it a year later since it allows for five mana on turn two.
jeweled lotus and mana crypt didn't deserve to be banned I'd be open to an argument for dockside but still not ban worthy and nadu we were already told but didn't deserve to be banned honestly I hate ban lists the only time I allow ban lists is when it requires things outside of the game such as chaos orb and similar cards or some that just have terrible wordin and doesn't play nicely with the rules honestly these bans were dumb and didn't need to happen
Hmm I really don't understand the rocks without also including sol ring and many others...
Is it time for us all to ban the commander rules committee from the community itself??? 😬
sol ring's a 1 for 2 colorless, with the mana crypt is a 0 for 2 colourless so it's op...like it said you can get like 5 mana in 1/2 turns which is wild
Should be pretty obvious based on their statements and the cmc of those cards.
@@RR3V0 you still can do that with sol ring as a major component, it's mana positive turn 1, every other turn in the game is the exact same as mana crypt without any downside
The reasons given include this pink elephant and their reason to keep it was that it was "iconic" making a mockery of their reasons to ban the crypt...
@@VexylObby it's not obvious at all, I understand their words but it simply makes zero sense unless you're going to ban sol ring as well
If your argument is CEDH there are many other issues highly above this
@@neillaw If you have 1 cmc and a 0 cmc mana rock that both tap for 2 mana, you best want to ban the one that can be played for free. At least take ONE of them out. The life loss is a chance, and not even an issue if you are dropping bombs on turn 2 and 3. By the time the life loss matters, you have already won.
I like Sol Ring and everyone I play with likes the card too.
The rules committee killed my Godo deck....
11:42 - Lutri is Izzet not Simic
I own non of these cards except jewel lotus and guess what I never drew it in the deck and I got it on release maybe I’m unlucky maybe but otherwise it didn’t impact me really just means now I got to find a new card for deck 😅 that and they all got a good run except nadu but they stuck same with goblin so good
I will never spend money on magic cards again. I'm selling all my cards, playing proxies only from now on.
We need a cedh banlist. Protect the slow, casual players from fast mana etc. But make a proper cedh list, maintain it. It would benefit both groups/formats
I love these bans. It’s gonna be great. Less paying through the teeth to win. I hope more bans are coming. Cards costing as much as an entire deck can be really unfair.
why reduce the cards we can play with when they could just print tf out of them like sol ring. commander games are too damn long already
so excited about the bans! very good action by the rc finally.
Anyone buying these cards I’d not want to play with anyway.
Good riddance! And I own 2/3 of these guys!
Pull it fine, spending hundreds on buying them? Your nuts and are clearly not playing for fun.
Wut? "just proxy bro!"
Facts id never spend 200$ on a card no sir
Its fun for me play the old cards like Mox Diamant, Cradle and Dual Lands so You dont want to play with me its a win for me in my book 😂🎉
@@pascalraskal9347 well I own all but the mox.
I’m just not dumb enough to spend rent money on them
And decent players don’t need them to win.
Wonder if the massive card draw ban they did in Flesh and Blood encouraged them to finally ban some cards in commander.