Well done. I have been carrying concealed carry for 48 years and have not met anybody that wants to get shot with any caliber. In my LE career, I have seen death caused by all calibers-one thing that is consistent - they were all dead and ended up in the morgue...and they certainly weren’t debating the caliber.
The speed at which the bad guy is out of the fight DOES factor in too. Someone might die from blood loss eventually due to some 22 rounds but they are likely to be able to continue to shoot back for a long period of time. You shoot someone with a .45 and they are out of the fight immediately. Yea any round can kill but there are other factors.
Everyone in the video is humble, respectful, and makes their point under the DBAA policy. Interviewer and interviewees were great and informative. I have both, and some others, but I like how they debated like adults unlike some other media I’ve seen recently. Respect, and like I said, well mediated too!
I am a retired USAF CATM. I have everything from .22 to .45. Depending on the day, I might have my .380, my 9, my .40, or my .45 on me. I tend to like the Civil Defense ammo in any and all of them for the trauma level, and I know my shot WILL go where it needs to. Carry what you can hit with.
Per Google and reloading manuals the 9X19 was designed in 1901, while the .45 ACP was designed in 1904. My understanding is that the Army’s requirements for the cartridge was that, “It can founder a horse.” Meaning “break down” the horse. This required deep penetration and enough momentum to break large bones.
Listen all of you people are missing the point: God gave us two hands for a reason. If you’re not carrying BOTH a 45 and a 9mm at all times, you’re doing it wrong.
FINALLY, 9mm vs .45 ACP REAL SCIENCE REAL FBI GEL TESTING is NOT CLEAR GEL-NO THEY ARE NOT THE SAME .45 2x MORE TISSUE CRUSH and YES, THAT MATTERS! ua-cam.com/video/WyUC_131VJE/v-deo.html
Being a CCW holder for 17 years. providing firearm safety, tactics, etc. Rather you're using a .22 or a .500 S&W, it comes down to how easily and how many rounds can you place on target accurately with the gun or cal. of choice. If you can't hit the broad side of a barn with a .45 and can get 20 rounds on target with a .22, which will give you a better chance of survival?.
Of course, I have a few 9mm's and .45's but my carry of choice? The .45! Hands down! Let the debate rage on-WITHOUT ME! I'm sold! END OF DISCUSSION!! Lol!!!
I came across this video again researching .45ACP info. What a wonderful discussion. I still enjoy my 9mm's and carry them frequently BUT that .45 ACP has my heart!
@@MilitantX1 yeah mine too!!! I carry both a 9mm and a .45 and rotate between them on my carry days but yes I still very much favor the .45 especially the 1911 model pistols. Nothing feels better than holding a 1911 .45 pistol in your hand. I have two 1911 pistols but they are heavy to carry. My .45 carry is the S&W M&P Shield. My 9mm carry is the Springfield Armory XD-9mm with 16 round magazine.
@@MilitantX1 you absolutely have got to watch the UA-cam video by Lucky Gunner. It’s called “Why gel ballistics work and why pistol calibers are dumb.” This video fully explains the 9mm and the .45 in great detail. The two guys in this video are ballistic experts and work for the Federal Ammunition corporation. You gotta watch it!!!!👍👍👍👍
@@thomaspalmer7900 I have seen it months ago. I really enjoyed it! These "caliber wars" are useless and pointless! People ought to just carry what they like and not try to "justify" why one is better than another. The bad guys will not be asking; "Hey! Before you shoot me, may I ask what caliber is that that you are about to hit me with?" Lol! I carry the HK VPsk and the P30 (both 9mm's) from time to time but my main EDC is the HK 45c or USP Compact .45.
I agree totally with the 45 guy. Once you see it in action, there is no talking you out of it. While serving a narcotics search warrant (Chicago PD Tactical), was charged by a Pit Bull. Was able to get off only one shot from my Smith & Wesson 645 auto. Hit him in the shoulder, spun him around and he ran out of the house and died under the rear porch. Forever sold on the 45 ACP.
Limitless Life I done the exact same thing to a attacking pitbull dog with a .22 magnum when I shot him in the shoulder he hit the ground and never took another step
Anti Law so u can shoot a dog that's attacking you and that's fine but if your dog attacks somebody and they shoot your dog you would kill them? You're being a little hypocritical there aren't you?
Who’s watching this in 2020? I’ve seen this one and it came out again to my suggested videos and looked at it again. I’m just 5’5 and with medium sized hands. There is no gun out there fits me great than a 1911. Even the double stack 1911 fits me great than any other pistol out there. Reason is it was really designed to fit our hands perfectly. Despite the recoil impulse which dissuade most people into using it, in my case, I’ve always loved the caliber and I knew that with practice, you’ll get that hang of it. Doesn’t bother me one bit. I love shooting .45acp. Just takes practice.
Will I can tell you from experience.I was hit with a 45 in my hip and it knock my to the ground instantly. Luckily I was just hit with FMJ.cause if it was one of these hollow points or these 45 bullets that looks like a Philip screwdriver I would not be hear to tell u 45 is the way to go
@@TheRealZJE313 Apparently not in this lifetime. Was searching at gun stores in the Denver area yesterday, as well as on the internet, and everything's sold out that I'm looking for.
I own both. I carry both. I would not want to get hit with either of them. That said, I’m a cop and I have personally seen a.45 stop a perp with one shot.
My first pistol was a S&W 659. I loved it. Accurate and comfortable in my hand... Then a coworker let me try out his grandpa's WW II 1911. WOW!!! I instantly shot even better, despite the teeny sights. SOLD!!! For half the capacity, I get better accuracy and more enjoyment as I shoot, plus a more versatile round. I can go from Buffalo Barnes Reduced Recoil 160 gr rounds for SD... To 255 gt +P hard cast lead for being in the woods. Without having to change the recoil spring. No one else has to agree with me, but I'm sold on my 1911.
That's a great point you made about "not changing the recoil springs". I know recoil springs can be an issue with pocket 9mm's firing heavyweight ammo, and for this reason Revolver Sam considers the .380 to be the ideal pocket pistol round. Also, the inherent accuracy of a single-action trigger a-la 1911 is another key point that gets lost in the debate. All that said, the double-stack 9mm 1911-style frames seem pretty darn ideal these days.
What I have noticed is that some people, with a larger capacity magazine will do the spray and pray thing because they have more ammo but those with a smaller magazine will take more time on aiming. If someone is a new shooter, goes to the range and shoots a few mags, they are the ones that unconsciously spends more time squeezing the trigger than aiming.
I carry 9mm just because it’s what I’m more comfortable with. People should base their decision on what they’re more comfortable with because everyone talks about penetration vs stack size, but I’d prefer less rounds with a sidearm that I am comfortable and consistent with vs one with more rounds especially with how far all ammunition, including 9mm has come over the years, it just so happens I favor the 9. That’s not to say that it makes me right or wrong or that I’m going to tell someone their preference isn’t right. The right gun and right caliber is the one that best fits and suits you, not someone else.
I agree with you, also. I had a Kimber .45 for my concealed carry and was never comfortable with it. Plus, I got lousy groupings and it didn't shoot too well. Sent it back to the factory and they had to replace a part on it. I use a Sig P938 and totally satisfied with it.
Exactly Otter, if with a 9mm you can put 15 rounds on target, so be it. I put 8rounds on target, both targets represent a threat stopped. Caliber isn't as important as using a familiar tool to strike the target with the rounds required to stop the threat
I only prefer the 45ACP because I shoot it more accurately and because of the history behind the cartridge and the 1911 style firearm itself......and because Jeff Cooper told me to. 😂👍🙈
Sure logistically the 9mm has advantages. Cost, interchangeability, capacity and variety all goes to 9mm. But bullet to bullet, the .45acp is the more lethal cartridge, one hit to one hit. It's physics and biology. And that's why I carry...10mm.
@AmericanPatriot14 shot placement is wishful thinking. Any firearm or even slingshot must have ideal shot placement and that is a given or necessary even for a knife. But in a gunfight where one do not like to be hit with a lethal bullet from one shooting back you will move quickly out of the line of fire while firing and this will affect shot placement which in that case one may hit outside the lethal areas of the body negating immediate stoppage. This is the time that a bigger caliber comes in. If it hit the shoulder it could probably inflict bigger tissue damage than a smaller caliber.
@@diosdadoapias I AGREE WITH YOU 💯 PERCENT NO ONE EVER MENTIONS WHAT YOU SAID BUT THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN GUN FIGHTS
Yes, the larger capacity of 9mm pistols can make a difference in a fight, especially if you miss the first few shots. However, you cant argue that the much larger cartridge of the 45 as well as larger cross section of the bullet wont transfer more energy to the target. It's really just physics.
Especially if you are shooting Federal HST 230 JHP. This ammo expands dime size. Or shooting Hornady Critical Duty 220 grain JHP. This ammo has shown in video blowing through a car door and penetrating 16” in a jell block!!!!
It’s peanuts in difference tho which was the point they made that if it’s under 500 fpe or 1500-2000 fps than it’s not really having any “stopping power”. 1 extra round on target from a 9mm is going to outdo the difference in 10 rounds of .45.
I have handled both 45 and 9mil. My small hands won't fit well on the 45 so I bought a SCCY 9mil. The fit is great and and the weight is right for me. Thanks for the great vids you guys do. I watch them all.
Couple things: Since we've now gotten through an administration led by the greatest gun salesman the world has ever seen, there are a lot more Americans that own guns and carry guns, and since they are new to owning, carrying, and shooting handguns, they might find it more comfortable and controllable to use 9mm. However, on the capacity side of things, its true on full size pistols there is usually a significant difference in capacity between .45 and 9mm, but most people that carry are carrying compact or subcompact pistols. So when you drop down in the size of the pistol, the difference in capacity between the calibers drops also.
Whatever caliber you choose to go with , be sure your covered by USCCA. I carry 40S&W mainly because I'm in Califoolya and capacity can only be 10 so I'm not loosing capacity by picking either caliber when I'm Conceal carrying. I'm wanting to get a 10mm but I want to make sure that I can shoot it confidently & accurately.
Simple physics. 45 has a greater recoil. That means more energy. More energy out of the gun means more into the target. With modern rounds the 9 mm and the 45 both open up pretty wide and transfer most energy into the target. So the 45 with more energy to transfer = more damage done. Bigger hole in this case. The bigger the hole the more likely you are to hit something important. At the same time the more shots fired the more likely you are to hit something important. But most people wont stand there and be shot a half dozen times or more. So if you can hit your target capacity does not matter. So... carry the biggest round you are willing to carry and can still hit the target with. Hitting the target is the important bit. Most wont stand and be shot a bunch of times. But lots will get shot once or twice and run off. The question is do you want them to survive those one or two shots to lie in court or do you want them to be the corpse with nothing to say.
If you hit your target right is a big if. Your adrenaline is pumping, you're moving, your target is moving and that greatly reduces odds of hitting that perfect spot and the holes aren't much different between the two and neither causes any real stretch cavities. The advantages of the 9mm is the ability to get faster follow up shots specially as you get older meaning the average person create more holes with the 9mm than the 45 acp in the same time frame. Both are good rounds, both have advantages and disadvantages. All we need to do is decide which works better for our likely scenarios. I choose 9mm because if my son or she who thinks she must be obeyed needs to use it they can far easier and safer than the 45.
The greater energy comes obviously from the much larger cartridge of the 45 acp. 2mm diameter difference does not sound like a lot but in terms of area cross section it's a 33% difference. So you got more energy and more pressure and less penetration as the bullet will experience 33% more resistance thus transferring more energy the body. It therefore HAS more knockdown power. Really just physics.
9mm or 45 acp. With today's ammo you cannot go wrong with either. That being said, I prefer the 45 acp. It was my duty round for a majority of my law enforcement career. My current EDC is a Shield 9mm and a S&W nickel model 36. I plan on getting the Shield in 45 acp soon and will throw that into the rotation.
fwacfred - My CCW for the past 3 years has been 9mm Shield. Just purchased Shield in 45 ACP and put 50 rounds through it - amazed how well I can stay on target with double taps. I reload, so cost (9 vs 45) is not an issue for practice. Once I get 200 rounds of practice and a holster, I see the 45 ACP in rotation. That said, I would trust my life to either.
I like the Ruger Redhawk revolver that shoots 45 LC and 45 ACP on moonclips. I have used this in some IPSC matches and the reload times with the moonclips is really fast with a small amount of practice. A brutal solution.
9mm is older. I think it was created in 1902. The .45ACP was created in 1905. That being said, with modern bullets and powders are a great equalizer. Overall, both are an effective overall round and the fact that both have been around for more than 100 years speaks very much about the capabilities of both. Now, each does have their benefits and negatives. 9mm has more speed and .45ACP more mass. 9mm has generally more capacity in a similarly sized pistol than the .45ACP but carrying more magazines would fix that. The benefit of multiple magazines is if there is a magazine issue but that is a whole different discussion. I have both and shoot both regularly. I still have a partiality to .45ACP.
Actually the .45 (caliber wise) was designed back in for the 1800’s colt peacemaker. It was called the .45 Colt or long Colt. The .45 ACP came into existence from this.
@@kylewood8327 if talking about caliber true but I was talking about cartridge. .45 caliber bullets have been around a very long time indeed. Either way, there is a reason both 9mm Parabellum and .45ACP have stuck around and both are still in common use. They both do the job. Well as far as a pistol cartridge goes and both have improved with age as better bullets have come into existence.
Great discussion from both parties. I use a 9mm for my concealed carry with self-defense ammo (Black Talons). If I ever have to use it I may not have the stopping power of a 45 but the BT's will cause more internal damage than regular ball ammo.
I carry a 9mm because I am competent with it. Even with +P and +P+ loads recoil is still moderate enough to get very fast follow-up shots. My 9mm is stuffed with the Federal 115 grain + P + I am also comfortable with Corbon 115 +P DPX Federal 124gr +P and NATO Ball yes, I said NATO Ball if you haven't noticed guys in the hood in wheelchairs and on crutches they were shot with ball ammo. My weapon system is either the G19,17,26
The Springfield XD Mod.2 subcompact, in .45 ACP, is a good choice for self defense. It holds 13+1 rounds, is only slightly larger than a 9mm/.40 cal frame, and has reasonable recoil for a subcompact 45. So, .45 ACP was my choice for self defense.
I carry a S&W Shield.45 or I carry my Ruger Commander SR1911 .45 but it’s a little on the heavy side but very accurate and we all know longer barrel means greater velocity and energy!!
9mm and civil liberties ammo @2000ft per second. Great combo. Throw in some Speer gold dot 147gr for a smidge better penetration and I think you have a winning combo
Regarding the 22 to a head comment***. No disrespect. 22 can and has definitely worked many times in self defense situations. Having said that, I’ve personally seen them enter someone’s head and the bad guy wasn’t stopped. Had one guy in an ER being treated for blunt trauma injury and complained of a headache. Turned out he had been shot in the head. Bullet entered and (I was later told by ER dr) spun around the inside of the guys skull and stayed there. Not nay saying the 22. Just passing on observations.
I prefer the .45 ACP. Why? I DON'T KNOW! For years I carried an Officers' 1911 (8+1 with a Wilson Magazine). Sure, I had 9mm compacts that were actually slimmer and hold 15+1, but I grabbed that Colt more often than not. I loaded it with 185 grain JHPs and felt well-armed. Lately, I rotate between the M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm, my CZ P-01 9mm, and my Sig P320 Compact in 45 ACP... but I still grab the .45 more often than not. Maybe .45 ACP is my emotional support caliber? Quality over quantity? Whatever... I just like those fat little sausage rounds.
Loved the debate... super clarifying.. it's about the historical and cultural heritage of the 45 vs. the controlability and bullets capacity of the 9...
I concealed carry with a s&w 1911 45acp. I'm more confident and comfortable with the 45 rather a 9mm. It's a personal reference. And I feel like a 9mm might slip outta my grips due to size on both advantages
I was a 9mm guy my whole life until I got a .45 shield. Couldn't believe I could actually shoot it better than my 9mm shield. Ed answered the question for me. Perfect fit for for my hand . Surprisingly low recoil for a sub compact .45...noticeably less than Springfield Xds .45 .
bought my first handgun today. s&w shield in 45. almost went with the 9mm but I can shoot pretty well, the recoil and snap doesnt effect me but it use to when i was younger. I think whatever you shoot best is your best choice.
@jopp Mopp No that is an opinion.. Former (D) Gabby Gifford was Shot Point blank in the Head with a 9mm and survived, Had it been a .45acp they would have found Her brain 30 yards away ( Don't get me wrong im glad she survived ) The wound cavity alone makes the .45 superior.
@jopp Mopp Just Keep posting and Everyone will see your Crowned Jewel of Colossal Ignorance that you wear so proudly on your own. Odds are the only gun you've ever fired came with caps.
I know i think most people don't know there is a difference in .45 acp and .45 colt and most people don't know their tactical 9x19 para is the same cartridge as a 9mm luger
I carry a Sig Sauer emperor scorpion fastback carry model 1911 .45ACP, 8 cap mag. I also own a para ordnance p14-45APC limited edition full size 1911 12 & 10 cap mags. The Sig is easily consealed and the full metal frame feels great carrying and shooting. Enjoyed the discussion fellas. Great points by both gentleman. Couldn't agree more with the ultimate theme of the discussion, what do you like? Ok, go with that. Become tactically and technically proficient with it!
I love love LOVE 45 out of a 1911, also i believe 9mm is older, the army wanted a semi auto handgun in a caliber thats more effective then 9mm so thats where we got the acp from, Automatic Colt Pistol (even tho john moses browning created the 1911) my first handgun was a 40sw and i loved it but it was a taurus so i upgraded to an xd, only thing is it was a 9mm and iv had experience with a 9mm 1911 so i was fine with it BUT i still missed that 40sw. I trust 40 and 45 but not so much 9mm, i personally dont think its as effective, it will do its job eventually but id rather fire 2-3 rounds less in a defensive shooting and normally all i lose is 2 rounds compared to a 9mm. Whats funny is that for me if its a 45 its a 1911 that has an 8 round mag +1, if its 40 its in any gun with 12 rounds minimum, preferably no safety. If it has a hammer it has a decocker (1911 gets a pass because you ride the safety, its part of your grip)
I have the glock 30 and a canik 9mm I lean towards my.glock 30.45 acp. Saying you want to send more rounds down stream in a self defense setting makes no sense to me. I want stopping power as every bullet counts down stream. If I can stop them in one or 2 solid placed shots of a heavy 45 acp then yes I want that.
Stopping power is how fast does a round stop your opponent from shooting back. You can shoot someone with a 22 and yea they could die from it, but they will shoot back for a while still. They won’t be immediately stopped the way they would if they got hit with a 45. Thus, the 45 has more stopping power than a 22. Stopping power is a real thing.
Winter time I carry a Smith & Wesson M&P 1.0 in .45acp in an IWB Holder and a Springfield XDs 3.3 in .45acp in my left front pocket. Neither can Be detected.
Exactly. People who keep claiming .45 is superior to 9mm are like the Fudds who claim that all anyone would ever need is a shotgun and not an AR. It's become a stupid debate IMO...
@@Knight_of_the_Old_Code I agree but I think 45 acp would be a better round for self defense because of modern hollow point rounds. The modern hollow point bullets for 45 acp consistently expands to an inch in a diameter, because of that the 45 acp has a higher chance of tearing arteries and severely messing up organs. As well the 45 acp doesn't penetrate as deep as 9mm in a hollow point form. It's subsonic unless hand loaded, and makes it so that if your bullet that you hit your target with there's a significantly less chance of passthrough which could hurt innocents.
@@henryofskalitz2228 Makes sense. However, I still say get the caliber you want or are most comfortable with and train! I think we all can agree there is no substitute for that!
Jeff Cooper knew more about everything associated with guns than 99% of the gun culture put together. I think I will follow his lead on the .45 vs 9mm controversy. I own 7 1911’s and 2 Browning HP’s. Nuff said!
good debate. have both, shot both, feel good defending myself with both. have finally went to there being 4 of the same handgun around the house (Glock 9mm) so that no matter what my wife picks up to defend herself, it's all the same. still can't let go of my 1911. no matter if they told me that it was the worst gun ever, I'd still carry it. old habits die hard. thanks for the great videos uscca.
Everything you can say about the nine you can say about the twenty-two. Modern simps have lower testosterone, and shrinking manhoods and have made the nine popular for their limp wrists. The best caliber is the one you aim the best. Capacity is a fear factor as most shootouts are under six shots. My fav is 357. magnum a one-shot man stopper. Training is everything. 45's make bigger holes and they bleed out faster, every hunter knows this and does not hunt with a nine for larger animals. The 45 was purposed to kill horses and the men who rode them...
When I started pistol shooting in the 70s the best caliber was 45 by far. Hollow point bullets were poorly designed and seldom opened. Ballistic jel hadn't been invented yet. I had very little confidence in 9mm. Since 45 ball started out bigger I got myself a Government Model 45 and went on my way.
I have a few 9mm and 45 acp handguns and holsters for them all, but tend to carry a subcompact 10 rd capacity 9mm glock 26 instead of the compact 1911 or subcompact Sig 45 acp handguns I own. Both of them are great calibers, but when size and weight come into play the 9mm wins. Plus 9mm does better at barrier penetration than 45 acp. I reload my own ammo so the cost difference between both calibers doesn't matter to me. I will admit that a 45 acp 1911 is a lot more fun to shoot than a 9mm glock, but the 9mm glock is the one I trust more for carry.
for being in Houston 9mm seems like a better choice when it come to being in traffic and maybe having to shoot the car door to penetrate target. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve heard 9mm is a better penetration through car doors
I don't carry a 45 anymore however, I would not feel inadequate with a 9mm. But when the larger round hits it's going to drag more tissue then the smaller bullet so you will do more damage to the target which depending can make a difference in incapacitating the person sooner. Having more bullets to literally overwhelm one attacker is a good thing. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9/40 than 8-9 rounds of 45 for the fact you may have to engage multiple assailants. When it comes to magazine capacity it is not so that you can shoot more rounds is so you do not get caught in a reload as soon. I can't wait to hear the 9 vs 40 debate.
B.Jay Most modern 45 hornady critical defense gets the job done also most modern day handguns are double stacked the glock 19 9mm 15 mag capacity the glock 21 has 13 round capacity and with a mag extension it holds 17 rounds of 45 the FNX has 15 mag capacity of 45 so 9mm doesn't = more ammo because most modern day guns can hold 15 to 17 rounds of 45
Depends on the size of the firearm IMO. With most sub-compacts (which are arguably the most conformable and easiest to conceal) 9mm still gets the edge on a few rounds (eg: XDS 3" 9mm 13+1rds vs XDS .45 ACP 9+1rds). Personally love having 7 total extra rounds with a backup ext mag. I just personally feel if 9mm does what it's supposed to do I'm not going to overcomplicate things. Less recoil, cheaper and more rounds in a tiny package is just the icing on the cake. Of course each to his own.
9mm Glock 19 is the same size as the 45 acp glock 30 that holds 10 rds. The glock 21 is a lot bigger than the glock 19 so those 2 guns shouldn't be compared. Most of the time capacity isn't an issue so just carry whatever you shoot best and like the most.
9mm compared to 45 it wins on the capacity but not the damage and yes i do mean damage, if you look up the meaning of damage it is this, physical harm caused to something in such a way as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function now that sounds like getting shot, shot in your lungs they wont work right same with the heart etc. 9mm compared to 40sw loses on the "damage" and is pretty much equal on rounds as the average round count of a 40sw is 2 rounds less then a 9mm. We see that in all glocks but the sub compacts.
I love 45 and 9mm. I also have a Shield in each flavor. They are both excellent carry guns. The 9 is lighter and smaller. The 45 fits me perfectly. I am well armed with either. The 9mm has more capacity and is no doubt adequate for the job. The ease of carry and magazine capacity sway me toward the 9. I can shoot the 9 faster and just as accurate. Putting bullets where they need to go solves the problem. The 9 is probably superior in that roll in my hands. But the 45 Shield shoots very well too. I like both. The 9 is probably more efficient in capacity cost and weight of gun.
I really hate this debate. Both get the job done. I carry either, depending on what I am wearing and the environment I go to and love both. No matter what you are carrying, you must be aware of your surroundings, be the first to get a shot on target and keep putting holes in the threat until the threat is no longer a threat.
What they made a 45 ACP? I (still) be rocking the 45 Colt! The “Taylor Knock Out Index”: Velocity (in fps) x Weight (in grains) x Diameter (in inches) = _ divided by 7,000 [to convert into foot pounds of energy]. 9mm: [1901 AD] (Original) Standard P - 1180 x 115 x .355 = 48,173.5 divided by 7,000 = 6.88 ft pd Underwood Ammo 9mm: Standard P - 1300 x 115 x .355 = 53,072.5 divided by 7000 = 7.58 ft pd +P - 1100 x 147 x .355 = 57,403.5 divided by 7000 = 8.2 ft pd +P+ - 1550 x 90 x .355 = 49,522.5 divided by 7000 = 7.07 ft pd - (?) Notice how big and slow is better than little and faster every time? Well now, it ain’t just what she said anymore! And on that note - 45 ACP: [1904 AD] Standard P - 835 x 230 x .451 = 86,614.55 divided by 7,000 = 12.37 ft pd Underwood Ammo 45 ACP: +P - 925 x 255 x .452 = 106,615.5 divided by 7000 = 15.23 ft pd Fools Figure, but Figures don't Fool! Which now leads us to the Facts - 45 Colt: [1872 AD] (Original) Standard P - 1000 x 235 x .456 = 107,160 divided by 7,000 = 15.3 ft pd Original Underwood Ammo 45 Colt: Standard P - 1000 x 250 x .452 = 113,000 divided by 7,000 = 16.14 ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P - 1400 x 250 x .452 = 158,200 divided by 7,000 = 22.6ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P This is the results of big getting faster. So, "faster can be goods so long as size is not compromised!" And I quoted her on that. [Liberty Ammunition 45 Colt: Standard P - 1800 x 78 x .452 = 63,460.8 divided by 7,000 = 9.0658 ft pd - Civil Defense Showing little going fast is just that, and nothing more!] +P - 1325 x 325 x .452 = 194,642.5 divided by 7,000 = 27.8 ft pd - Long Flat Nose Gas Check Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast +P This is the results of big getting bigger! As so did her eyes! Standard P - 900 x 220 x .452 = 89,496 divided by 7,000 = 12.785 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (before it expands) Standard P - 900 x 220 x 1.75 = 346,500 divided by 7,000 = 49.5 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (after it expands) This is the results of big becoming HUGE! At this point she was speechless(?).
My .45ACP has less recoil than most 9mm full size pistols the best .45 to buy for quality price accuracy easy to take apart clean and put back together is the Ruger model P94 or P95 because they dont make the P85 P89 or P90 .45 but there still around and are worth buying
I don’t carry yet but I formerly owned a .40 and was pleased but I was leaning towards considering a .45 as I was under the impression that it had more stopping power. If stopping power is similar across the 9 mm, .40 and .45 then I would probably go with the one that feels better and is easier to handle when firing.
The S&W Shield .45 with the gritty handle feels great and comfortable. To be totally honest the best feeling comfortable pistol to hold and shoot is by far a 1911. I personally rotate and carry both. The 1911 is of course heavier but has a 5” barrel which is very accurate and we all know longer barrel means greater velocity and energy.
Knowing that 70% of people shot with a handgun will run away after being shot. At least with the 45 they run off with a much larger chunk off lead inside them. Three shots with a 9mm has a total of 345 grains vs the 45 at 690 grains of lead inside there body. This is just a different way off looking at this topic. The down side of the 9mm is that it is very ammo dependent or at least much more so than the 45.
I choose to carry .45 auto because I think it has less chance of over penetration. Am I worried about capacity? No, that is what extra magazines are for.
Talked to a big city trauma surgeon, he said it was rare for a 9mm gun shot victim to die. He even had one person shot 6 times with a 9mm and survived, however he said he only had one person who was shot with a 45 and survived all the other died. Call it what you want but the 45 dumps more energy on impact than the 9mm. I carry the SW 1911 Performance Center Pro Series 45.
I have both 9mm's and .45 cal pistols. BUT, I shoot my .45 way better than my 9's. So, I carry either my HK USP Compact .45 or my HK 45c both are (8+1 rders) w/2 etra 8 rd mags. I'm good!
Statistics I've seen show: EVERY hand gun caliber take more than a single shot (on average) to incapacitate an attacker. Some were averaging some fraction of 2 (i.E. 1.38 rounds to stop.etc). Even the .22lr statistically ranks higher than many centerfires with more than a single shot employed. And I can dump 4-5 .22lr accurately into the target (at "STOP GET OFF ME!" ranges) in the same time as my .1911 45.
Well done. I have been carrying concealed carry for 48 years and have not met anybody that wants to get shot with any caliber. In my LE career, I have seen death caused by all calibers-one thing that is consistent - they were all dead and ended up in the morgue...and they certainly weren’t debating the caliber.
The speed at which the bad guy is out of the fight DOES factor in too.
Someone might die from blood loss eventually due to some 22 rounds but they are likely to be able to continue to shoot back for a long period of time.
You shoot someone with a .45 and they are out of the fight immediately.
Yea any round can kill but there are other factors.
Both are great. I prefer the 45 ACP, not because its better, I just like the recoil pulse from a 45 ACP.
Everyone in the video is humble, respectful, and makes their point under the DBAA policy. Interviewer and interviewees were great and informative. I have both, and some others, but I like how they debated like adults unlike some other media I’ve seen recently. Respect, and like I said, well mediated too!
9mm kills the body, .45 kills your soul 😂
Lmaoooo love it!
When I visit haunted houses, I carry .45 for protection
I am a retired USAF CATM. I have everything from .22 to .45. Depending on the day, I might have my .380, my 9, my .40, or my .45 on me. I tend to like the Civil Defense ammo in any and all of them for the trauma level, and I know my shot WILL go where it needs to. Carry what you can hit with.
Thank you for your service. I’m retired USAF also. I wasn’t in CATM.
Per Google and reloading manuals the 9X19 was designed in 1901, while the .45 ACP was designed in 1904.
My understanding is that the Army’s requirements for the cartridge was that, “It can founder a horse.” Meaning “break down” the horse. This required deep penetration and enough momentum to break large bones.
Listen all of you people are missing the point: God gave us two hands for a reason. If you’re not carrying BOTH a 45 and a 9mm at all times, you’re doing it wrong.
Good advice. John wayne
Amen
This the best comment I ever read. !!
It's "Gods", not God. More than one out there.
FINALLY, 9mm vs .45 ACP REAL SCIENCE REAL FBI GEL TESTING is NOT CLEAR GEL-NO THEY ARE NOT THE SAME .45 2x MORE TISSUE CRUSH and YES, THAT MATTERS! ua-cam.com/video/WyUC_131VJE/v-deo.html
Being a CCW holder for 17 years. providing firearm safety, tactics, etc. Rather you're using a .22 or a .500 S&W, it comes down to how easily and how many rounds can you place on target accurately with the gun or cal. of choice. If you can't hit the broad side of a barn with a .45 and can get 20 rounds on target with a .22, which will give you a better chance of survival?.
@Tony B Unless you miss...
@Tony B No such thing as a "one-hit wonder caliber"
Spot on...
@@Knight_of_the_Old_Code 203mm howitzer would like to have a word about a one-hit wonder caliber.
@@henryofskalitz2228 Well, that...yeah. That'll do...lol 😆
Of course, I have a few 9mm's and .45's but my carry of choice? The .45! Hands down! Let the debate rage on-WITHOUT ME! I'm sold! END OF DISCUSSION!! Lol!!!
I will continue to carry my Ruger Commander SR1911 .45 acp
I came across this video again researching .45ACP info. What a wonderful discussion. I still enjoy my 9mm's and carry them frequently BUT that .45 ACP has my heart!
@@MilitantX1 yeah mine too!!! I carry both a 9mm and a .45 and rotate between them on my carry days but yes I still very much favor the .45 especially the 1911 model pistols. Nothing feels better than holding a 1911 .45 pistol in your hand. I have two 1911 pistols but they are heavy to carry. My .45 carry is the S&W M&P Shield. My 9mm carry is the Springfield Armory XD-9mm with 16 round magazine.
@@MilitantX1 you absolutely have got to watch the UA-cam video by Lucky Gunner. It’s called “Why gel ballistics work and why pistol calibers are dumb.” This video fully explains the 9mm and the .45 in great detail. The two guys in this video are ballistic experts and work for the Federal Ammunition corporation. You gotta watch it!!!!👍👍👍👍
@@thomaspalmer7900 I have seen it months ago. I really enjoyed it! These "caliber wars" are useless and pointless! People ought to just carry what they like and not try to "justify" why one is better than another. The bad guys will not be asking; "Hey! Before you shoot me, may I ask what caliber is that that you are about to hit me with?" Lol! I carry the HK VPsk and the P30 (both 9mm's) from time to time but my main EDC is the HK 45c or USP Compact .45.
I agree totally with the 45 guy. Once you see it in action, there is no talking you out of it. While serving a narcotics search warrant (Chicago PD Tactical), was charged by a Pit Bull. Was able to get off only one shot from my Smith & Wesson 645 auto. Hit him in the shoulder, spun him around and he ran out of the house and died under the rear porch. Forever sold on the 45 ACP.
It's always ok to kill a dog until it belongs to a cop.
Limitless Life I done the exact same thing to a attacking pitbull dog with a .22 magnum when I shot him in the shoulder he hit the ground and never took another step
It would be funny if someone did the same to your dog when it tries to protect its home when armed strangers show up
Anti Law so u can shoot a dog that's attacking you and that's fine but if your dog attacks somebody and they shoot your dog you would kill them? You're being a little hypocritical there aren't you?
I don't think you listened to what everybody was saying. You came into the video with your own conclusions and read into what you wanted to hear.
I love the caliber debates, especially when they are so civil :)
Who’s watching this in 2020? I’ve seen this one and it came out again to my suggested videos and looked at it again. I’m just 5’5 and with medium sized hands. There is no gun out there fits me great than a 1911. Even the double stack 1911 fits me great than any other pistol out there. Reason is it was really designed to fit our hands perfectly. Despite the recoil impulse which dissuade most people into using it, in my case, I’ve always loved the caliber and I knew that with practice, you’ll get that hang of it. Doesn’t bother me one bit. I love shooting .45acp. Just takes practice.
Will I can tell you from experience.I was hit with a 45 in my hip and it knock my to the ground instantly. Luckily I was just hit with FMJ.cause if it was one of these hollow points or these 45 bullets that looks like a Philip screwdriver
I would not be hear to tell u 45 is the way to go
@Sean Morrissey If recoil doesn't matter we'd all be carry .44 magnums.
Got a Taurus 1911 and absolutely love it. Shopping for a compact 45 now, and have been looking at 1911 style semi's.
@@johntomasik1555 good choice. Now it depends on how much money you want to spend
@@TheRealZJE313 Apparently not in this lifetime. Was searching at gun stores in the Denver area yesterday, as well as on the internet, and everything's sold out that I'm looking for.
I own both. I carry both. I would not want to get hit with either of them.
That said, I’m a cop and I have personally seen a.45 stop a perp with one shot.
45 is not the older of the two cartridges. The 9mm Luger was invented in 1901, whereas the .45acp was invented in 1904. However, I am a 45 guy myself.
My first pistol was a S&W 659. I loved it. Accurate and comfortable in my hand...
Then a coworker let me try out his grandpa's WW II 1911. WOW!!! I instantly shot even better, despite the teeny sights. SOLD!!! For half the capacity, I get better accuracy and more enjoyment as I shoot, plus a more versatile round. I can go from Buffalo Barnes Reduced Recoil 160 gr rounds for SD...
To 255 gt +P hard cast lead for being in the woods.
Without having to change the recoil spring.
No one else has to agree with me, but I'm sold on my 1911.
That's a great point you made about "not changing the recoil springs". I know recoil springs can be an issue with pocket 9mm's firing heavyweight ammo, and for this reason Revolver Sam considers the .380 to be the ideal pocket pistol round.
Also, the inherent accuracy of a single-action trigger a-la 1911 is another key point that gets lost in the debate. All that said, the double-stack 9mm 1911-style frames seem pretty darn ideal these days.
What I have noticed is that some people, with a larger capacity magazine will do the spray and pray thing because they have more ammo but those with a smaller magazine will take more time on aiming. If someone is a new shooter, goes to the range and shoots a few mags, they are the ones that unconsciously spends more time squeezing the trigger than aiming.
I carry 9mm just because it’s what I’m more comfortable with. People should base their decision on what they’re more comfortable with because everyone talks about penetration vs stack size, but I’d prefer less rounds with a sidearm that I am comfortable and consistent with vs one with more rounds especially with how far all ammunition, including 9mm has come over the years, it just so happens I favor the 9. That’s not to say that it makes me right or wrong or that I’m going to tell someone their preference isn’t right. The right gun and right caliber is the one that best fits and suits you, not someone else.
Cz 75 sp01 for home and a cz 97 for carry brother
I agree with you, also. I had a Kimber .45 for my concealed carry and was never comfortable with it. Plus, I got lousy groupings and it didn't shoot too well. Sent it back to the factory and they had to replace a part on it. I use a Sig P938 and totally satisfied with it.
Exactly Otter, if with a 9mm you can put 15 rounds on target, so be it. I put 8rounds on target, both targets represent a threat stopped. Caliber isn't as important as using a familiar tool to strike the target with the rounds required to stop the threat
True. My wife likes a 38 Spec “Lady Smith” hammerless revolver.
Exactly…
I carry 40 s&w ! But 45 acp in my opinion is the one !
Good debate (more like a discussion), but you nailed it. Get something you are willing to carry all the time and that you can shoot well.
I only prefer the 45ACP because I shoot it more accurately and because of the history behind the cartridge and the 1911 style firearm itself......and because Jeff Cooper told me to. 😂👍🙈
100% AGREE WITH BOTH SIDES!
I never feel under-armed with a .45
Same but Id be fine with either
I carry 9mm and I'm not feeling anyone's underarms either
@@Nos2113 😂
I'd rather have more rounds too work with.
@@Nos2113 lmao
Sure logistically the 9mm has advantages. Cost, interchangeability, capacity and variety all goes to 9mm. But bullet to bullet, the .45acp is the more lethal cartridge, one hit to one hit. It's physics and biology. And that's why I carry...10mm.
Lmfao
@AmericanPatriot14 shot placement is wishful thinking. Any firearm or even slingshot must have ideal shot placement and that is a given or necessary even for a knife. But in a gunfight where one do not like to be hit with a lethal bullet from one shooting back you will move quickly out of the line of fire while firing and this will affect shot placement which in that case one may hit outside the lethal areas of the body negating immediate stoppage. This is the time that a bigger caliber comes in. If it hit the shoulder it could probably inflict bigger tissue damage than a smaller caliber.
@@diosdadoapias I AGREE WITH YOU 💯 PERCENT NO ONE EVER MENTIONS WHAT YOU SAID BUT THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN GUN FIGHTS
@AmericanPatriot14 logistically -> cost, interchangeability, and capacity.
You are my hero sir
Yes, the larger capacity of 9mm pistols can make a difference in a fight, especially if you miss the first few shots.
However, you cant argue that the much larger cartridge of the 45 as well as larger cross section of the bullet wont transfer more energy to the target. It's really just physics.
Especially if you are shooting Federal HST 230 JHP. This ammo expands dime size. Or shooting Hornady Critical Duty 220 grain JHP. This ammo has shown in video blowing through a car door and penetrating 16” in a jell block!!!!
It’s peanuts in difference tho which was the point they made that if it’s under 500 fpe or 1500-2000 fps than it’s not really having any “stopping power”. 1 extra round on target from a 9mm is going to outdo the difference in 10 rounds of .45.
I live in the country and I prefer a 45 over a 9mm because if I come across a bear I want some knockdown power for that situation.
I have handled both 45 and 9mil. My small hands won't fit well on the 45 so I bought a SCCY 9mil. The fit is great and and the weight is right for me. Thanks for the great vids you guys do. I watch them all.
Couple things:
Since we've now gotten through an administration led by the greatest gun salesman the world has ever seen, there are a lot more Americans that own guns and carry guns, and since they are new to owning, carrying, and shooting handguns, they might find it more comfortable and controllable to use 9mm.
However, on the capacity side of things, its true on full size pistols there is usually a significant difference in capacity between .45 and 9mm, but most people that carry are carrying compact or subcompact pistols. So when you drop down in the size of the pistol, the difference in capacity between the calibers drops also.
Whatever caliber you choose to go with , be sure your covered by USCCA. I carry 40S&W mainly because I'm in Califoolya and capacity can only be 10 so I'm not loosing capacity by picking either caliber when I'm Conceal carrying. I'm wanting to get a 10mm but I want to make sure that I can shoot it confidently & accurately.
We are happy to have your back, Daniel! Glad to have you as a member of the USCCA family!
Don't worry about what caliber the firearm is. Worry about what fits your hand the best. And train, train, train.
Springfield Armory X.D. .45 ACP solves the problem. It holds 14 .45ACP rounds and has a slim handel. What a great handgun.
says 13 in mag like glock 21 hmmmm, remington r1 double stack still holds more xD
Simple physics. 45 has a greater recoil. That means more energy. More energy out of the gun means more into the target. With modern rounds the 9 mm and the 45 both open up pretty wide and transfer most energy into the target. So the 45 with more energy to transfer = more damage done. Bigger hole in this case. The bigger the hole the more likely you are to hit something important. At the same time the more shots fired the more likely you are to hit something important. But most people wont stand there and be shot a half dozen times or more. So if you can hit your target capacity does not matter. So... carry the biggest round you are willing to carry and can still hit the target with. Hitting the target is the important bit. Most wont stand and be shot a bunch of times. But lots will get shot once or twice and run off. The question is do you want them to survive those one or two shots to lie in court or do you want them to be the corpse with nothing to say.
plaid13 well said.
If you hit your target right is a big if.
Your adrenaline is pumping, you're moving, your target is moving and that greatly reduces odds of hitting that perfect spot and the holes aren't much different between the two and neither causes any real stretch cavities.
The advantages of the 9mm is the ability to get faster follow up shots specially as you get older meaning the average person create more holes with the 9mm than the 45 acp in the same time frame.
Both are good rounds, both have advantages and disadvantages. All we need to do is decide which works better for our likely scenarios.
I choose 9mm because if my son or she who thinks she must be obeyed needs to use it they can far easier and safer than the 45.
The greater energy comes obviously from the much larger cartridge of the 45 acp. 2mm diameter difference does not sound like a lot but in terms of area cross section it's a 33% difference. So you got more energy and more pressure and less penetration as the bullet will experience 33% more resistance thus transferring more energy the body. It therefore HAS more knockdown power. Really just physics.
9mm or 45 acp. With today's ammo you cannot go wrong with either. That being said, I prefer the 45 acp. It was my duty round for a majority of my law enforcement career. My current EDC is a Shield 9mm and a S&W nickel model 36. I plan on getting the Shield in 45 acp soon and will throw that into the rotation.
fwacfred - My CCW for the past 3 years has been 9mm Shield. Just purchased Shield in 45 ACP and put 50 rounds through it - amazed how well I can stay on target with double taps. I reload, so cost (9 vs 45) is not an issue for practice. Once I get 200 rounds of practice and a holster, I see the 45 ACP in rotation. That said, I would trust my life to either.
That's awesome you found what works for you! Is this what you carry daily?
Yes. I never leave home without it. I enjoy watching your videos. Thanks for all your hard work.
You're very welcome! :)
I like the Ruger Redhawk revolver that shoots 45 LC and 45 ACP on moonclips. I have used this in some IPSC matches and the reload times with the moonclips is really fast with a small amount of practice. A brutal solution.
9mm is older. I think it was created in 1902. The .45ACP was created in 1905. That being said, with modern bullets and powders are a great equalizer. Overall, both are an effective overall round and the fact that both have been around for more than 100 years speaks very much about the capabilities of both. Now, each does have their benefits and negatives. 9mm has more speed and .45ACP more mass. 9mm has generally more capacity in a similarly sized pistol than the .45ACP but carrying more magazines would fix that. The benefit of multiple magazines is if there is a magazine issue but that is a whole different discussion. I have both and shoot both regularly. I still have a partiality to .45ACP.
Lol everyone debating these two rounds and here I am with .380
Actually the .45 (caliber wise) was designed back in for the 1800’s colt peacemaker. It was called the .45 Colt or long Colt. The .45 ACP came into existence from this.
@@kylewood8327 if talking about caliber true but I was talking about cartridge. .45 caliber bullets have been around a very long time indeed.
Either way, there is a reason both 9mm Parabellum and .45ACP have stuck around and both are still in common use. They both do the job. Well as far as a pistol cartridge goes and both have improved with age as better bullets have come into existence.
Great discussion from both parties. I use a 9mm for my concealed carry with self-defense ammo (Black Talons). If I ever have to use it I may not have the stopping power of a 45 but the BT's will cause more internal damage than regular ball ammo.
I carry a 9mm because I am competent with it. Even with +P and +P+ loads recoil is still moderate enough to get very fast follow-up shots. My 9mm is stuffed with the Federal 115 grain + P + I am also comfortable with Corbon 115 +P DPX
Federal 124gr +P and NATO Ball yes, I said NATO Ball if you haven't noticed guys in the hood in wheelchairs and on crutches they were shot with ball ammo. My weapon system is either the G19,17,26
People debating 9 vs 45, and I here I am in the background with my 357 saying “I don’t wanna get hit with either of them.” 🤓
The Springfield XD Mod.2 subcompact, in .45 ACP, is a good choice for self defense. It holds 13+1 rounds, is only slightly larger than a 9mm/.40 cal frame, and has reasonable recoil for a subcompact 45. So, .45 ACP was my choice for self defense.
My every day carry bro I got the mod 2 245 ACP
3.5 inch barrel 13+ one extended mag let’s gooooo
@@captainfresh1976 - I load my mags with 150 grain DRT HP ammo. With DRT 150 grains, your .45 performs similar to a short barreled 10mm.
I carry a S&W Shield.45 or I carry my Ruger Commander SR1911 .45 but it’s a little on the heavy side but very accurate and we all know longer barrel means greater velocity and energy!!
9mm and civil liberties ammo @2000ft per second. Great combo. Throw in some Speer gold dot 147gr for a smidge better penetration and I think you have a winning combo
Civil defense ammo is a gimmick, But the 147 grain gold dot is my carry load.
Up close you cant beat a 45acp in a hand gun & that's the bottom line...
Well glad you told us the bottom line. It's settled 😂
my 10mm snickers... “how cute”
Regarding the 22 to a head comment***. No disrespect. 22 can and has definitely worked many times in self defense situations. Having said that, I’ve personally seen them enter someone’s head and the bad guy wasn’t stopped. Had one guy in an ER being treated for blunt trauma injury and complained of a headache. Turned out he had been shot in the head. Bullet entered and (I was later told by ER dr) spun around the inside of the guys skull and stayed there. Not nay saying the 22. Just passing on observations.
410 shotgun shells def are better but ok
I prefer the .45 ACP. Why? I DON'T KNOW!
For years I carried an Officers' 1911 (8+1 with a Wilson Magazine). Sure, I had 9mm compacts that were actually slimmer and hold 15+1, but I grabbed that Colt more often than not. I loaded it with 185 grain JHPs and felt well-armed.
Lately, I rotate between the M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm, my CZ P-01 9mm, and my Sig P320 Compact in 45 ACP... but I still grab the .45 more often than not. Maybe .45 ACP is my emotional support caliber? Quality over quantity? Whatever... I just like those fat little sausage rounds.
Loved the debate... super clarifying..
it's about the historical and cultural heritage of the 45 vs. the controlability and bullets capacity of the 9...
I carry a 1911, therefor I don't need 17 rounds of 9mm
I concealed carry with a s&w 1911 45acp. I'm more confident and comfortable with the 45 rather a 9mm. It's a personal reference. And I feel like a 9mm might slip outta my grips due to size on both advantages
I was a 9mm guy my whole life until I got a .45 shield. Couldn't believe I could actually shoot it better than my 9mm shield. Ed answered the question for me. Perfect fit for for my hand . Surprisingly low recoil for a sub compact .45...noticeably less than Springfield Xds .45 .
Bubba Blackmon I actually shoot my shield.45 better than my 9mm also and for some reason nobody wants to believe that lol
bought my first handgun today. s&w shield in 45. almost went with the 9mm but I can shoot pretty well, the recoil and snap doesnt effect me but it use to when i was younger. I think whatever you shoot best is your best choice.
As someone who ran out of ammo in a 1974 gunfight w/3 armed robbery suspects (emptied my Colt DS twice) capacity is key so my preference is the 9MM.
The .45 did Not get the Nickname
" The Man Stopper " for nothing.
@jopp Mopp
No that is an opinion.. Former (D) Gabby Gifford was Shot Point blank in the Head with a 9mm and survived, Had it been a .45acp they would have found Her brain 30 yards away ( Don't get me wrong im glad she survived ) The wound cavity alone makes the .45 superior.
@jopp Mopp
Just Keep posting and Everyone will see your Crowned Jewel of Colossal Ignorance that you wear so proudly on your own. Odds are the only gun you've ever fired came with caps.
@@veteranpatriot4474 a freak accident does not mean anything, it could have happened with a .45 as well
.45 ACP isn’t the oldest
I know i think most people don't know there is a difference in .45 acp and .45 colt and most people don't know their tactical 9x19 para is the same cartridge as a 9mm luger
I figured he meant the oldest in America
The 9 was virtually non existent in America until the 1950’s and even then only in the browning high power
Good discussion men, bottom line...accuracy is the most important point. Which ever round accomplish this, it’s the way to go.
I carry an XDM 3.8 and I love the way it fits in my hand and shoots.
I carry a Sig Sauer emperor scorpion fastback carry model 1911 .45ACP, 8 cap mag. I also own a para ordnance p14-45APC limited edition full size 1911 12 & 10 cap mags. The Sig is easily consealed and the full metal frame feels great carrying and shooting. Enjoyed the discussion fellas. Great points by both gentleman. Couldn't agree more with the ultimate theme of the discussion, what do you like? Ok, go with that. Become tactically and technically proficient with it!
So if stopping power doesn't matter, everyone might as well use .25 acp or even .22?
I love love LOVE 45 out of a 1911, also i believe 9mm is older, the army wanted a semi auto handgun in a caliber thats more effective then 9mm so thats where we got the acp from, Automatic Colt Pistol (even tho john moses browning created the 1911) my first handgun was a 40sw and i loved it but it was a taurus so i upgraded to an xd, only thing is it was a 9mm and iv had experience with a 9mm 1911 so i was fine with it BUT i still missed that 40sw. I trust 40 and 45 but not so much 9mm, i personally dont think its as effective, it will do its job eventually but id rather fire 2-3 rounds less in a defensive shooting and normally all i lose is 2 rounds compared to a 9mm. Whats funny is that for me if its a 45 its a 1911 that has an 8 round mag +1, if its 40 its in any gun with 12 rounds minimum, preferably no safety. If it has a hammer it has a decocker (1911 gets a pass because you ride the safety, its part of your grip)
I have come to the conclusion for myself, I carry my 9 mm and for my home I use my 45acp.
Same here! My full size .45 suppressed for home and 9mm for out
Great video. For myself it is the operating system of cocked and locked is what I started out with and feel the most comfortable with.
The bigger the hole you put in a boat the faster it sinks.
I have the glock 30 and a canik 9mm I lean towards my.glock 30.45 acp. Saying you want to send more rounds down stream in a self defense setting makes no sense to me. I want stopping power as every bullet counts down stream. If I can stop them in one or 2 solid placed shots of a heavy 45 acp then yes I want that.
Please do a future video on .40 vs 9mm or .45 ACP. I have read many debates but I enjoy still reading or hearing about it.
Stopping power is how fast does a round stop your opponent from shooting back.
You can shoot someone with a 22 and yea they could die from it, but they will shoot back for a while still. They won’t be immediately stopped the way they would if they got hit with a 45.
Thus, the 45 has more stopping power than a 22.
Stopping power is a real thing.
Winter time I carry a Smith & Wesson M&P 1.0 in .45acp in an IWB Holder and a Springfield XDs 3.3 in .45acp in my left front pocket. Neither can Be detected.
This is very dead topic they both work just shoot a lot and train
Robert Murray 9mm has worked for me.
Exactly. People who keep claiming .45 is superior to 9mm are like the Fudds who claim that all anyone would ever need is a shotgun and not an AR. It's become a stupid debate IMO...
@Slick Awesome! Just train with it religiously and know your weapon platform and you're golden!
@@Knight_of_the_Old_Code I agree but I think 45 acp would be a better round for self defense because of modern hollow point rounds. The modern hollow point bullets for 45 acp consistently expands to an inch in a diameter, because of that the 45 acp has a higher chance of tearing arteries and severely messing up organs. As well the 45 acp doesn't penetrate as deep as 9mm in a hollow point form. It's subsonic unless hand loaded, and makes it so that if your bullet that you hit your target with there's a significantly less chance of passthrough which could hurt innocents.
@@henryofskalitz2228 Makes sense. However, I still say get the caliber you want or are most comfortable with and train! I think we all can agree there is no substitute for that!
Jeff Cooper knew more about everything associated with guns than 99% of the gun culture put together. I think I will follow his lead on the .45 vs 9mm controversy. I own 7 1911’s and 2 Browning HP’s. Nuff said!
357 SIG filmed this video and knows he's the best 😂
good debate. have both, shot both, feel good defending myself with both. have finally went to there being 4 of the same handgun around the house (Glock 9mm) so that no matter what my wife picks up to defend herself, it's all the same. still can't let go of my 1911. no matter if they told me that it was the worst gun ever, I'd still carry it. old habits die hard. thanks for the great videos uscca.
Thanks, joeshaver1104! Glad you enjoyed the debate!
Good in your hand > better on paper
I have often wondered why the FBI protocol is even quoted for Civilians as we do not shoot through dry wall, must-less car doors, or windshields.
The capacity argument is moot in New York, since you can only carry 7 rounds in the magazine, no matter what gun you carry.
Everything you can say about the nine you can say about the twenty-two. Modern simps have lower testosterone, and shrinking manhoods and have made the nine popular for their limp wrists. The best caliber is the one you aim the best. Capacity is a fear factor as most shootouts are under six shots. My fav is 357. magnum a one-shot man stopper. Training is everything. 45's make bigger holes and they bleed out faster, every hunter knows this and does not hunt with a nine for larger animals. The 45 was purposed to kill horses and the men who rode them...
Thank you for all the work you all do and I hope to see more USCCA:Live
Glad you enjoyed!
When I started pistol shooting in the 70s the best caliber was 45 by far. Hollow point bullets were poorly designed and seldom opened. Ballistic jel hadn't been invented yet. I had very little confidence in 9mm. Since 45 ball started out bigger I got myself a Government Model 45 and went on my way.
I have a few 9mm and 45 acp handguns and holsters for them all, but tend to carry a subcompact 10 rd capacity 9mm glock 26 instead of the compact 1911 or subcompact Sig 45 acp handguns I own. Both of them are great calibers, but when size and weight come into play the 9mm wins. Plus 9mm does better at barrier penetration than 45 acp. I reload my own ammo so the cost difference between both calibers doesn't matter to me. I will admit that a 45 acp 1911 is a lot more fun to shoot than a 9mm glock, but the 9mm glock is the one I trust more for carry.
for being in Houston 9mm seems like a better choice when it come to being in traffic and maybe having to shoot the car door to penetrate target. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve heard 9mm is a better penetration through car doors
The absolute best carry round is the one you are comfortable with and are accurate with.
I don't carry a 45 anymore however, I would not feel inadequate with a 9mm. But when the larger round hits it's going to drag more tissue then the smaller bullet so you will do more damage to the target which depending can make a difference in incapacitating the person sooner. Having more bullets to literally overwhelm one attacker is a good thing. I would rather have 15 rounds of 9/40 than 8-9 rounds of 45 for the fact you may have to engage multiple assailants. When it comes to magazine capacity it is not so that you can shoot more rounds is so you do not get caught in a reload as soon. I can't wait to hear the 9 vs 40 debate.
Based on this video, you should carry 5.7 or 22. Magnum
I carry both, I am wheelchair bound, for now.
Waiting patiently for USCCA to be able to sell in WA state again...
9mm modern HP's get the job done. Plus more rounds = 9mm for me.
B.Jay Most modern 45 hornady critical defense gets the job done also most modern day handguns are double stacked the glock 19 9mm 15 mag capacity the glock 21 has 13 round capacity and with a mag extension it holds 17 rounds of 45 the FNX has 15 mag capacity of 45 so 9mm doesn't = more ammo because most modern day guns can hold 15 to 17 rounds of 45
Depends on the size of the firearm IMO. With most sub-compacts (which are arguably the most conformable and easiest to conceal) 9mm still gets the edge on a few rounds (eg: XDS 3" 9mm 13+1rds vs XDS .45 ACP 9+1rds). Personally love having 7 total extra rounds with a backup ext mag.
I just personally feel if 9mm does what it's supposed to do I'm not going to overcomplicate things. Less recoil, cheaper and more rounds in a tiny package is just the icing on the cake.
Of course each to his own.
9mm Glock 19 is the same size as the 45 acp glock 30 that holds 10 rds. The glock 21 is a lot bigger than the glock 19 so those 2 guns shouldn't be compared. Most of the time capacity isn't an issue so just carry whatever you shoot best and like the most.
9mm compared to 45 it wins on the capacity but not the damage and yes i do mean damage, if you look up the meaning of damage it is this, physical harm caused to something in such a way as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function now that sounds like getting shot, shot in your lungs they wont work right same with the heart etc. 9mm compared to 40sw loses on the "damage" and is pretty much equal on rounds as the average round count of a 40sw is 2 rounds less then a 9mm. We see that in all glocks but the sub compacts.
I love 45 and 9mm. I also have a Shield in each flavor. They are both excellent carry guns. The 9 is lighter and smaller. The 45 fits me perfectly. I am well armed with either. The 9mm has more capacity and is no doubt adequate for the job. The ease of carry and magazine capacity sway me toward the 9. I can shoot the 9 faster and just as accurate. Putting bullets where they need to go solves the problem. The 9 is probably superior in that roll in my hands. But the 45 Shield shoots very well too. I like both. The 9 is probably more efficient in capacity cost and weight of gun.
It's kinda like you can't convince anyone that meat isn't as good for you as plant protiens. Lots of pros of plants lots of cons of meat
Stopping power is having any caliber gun pointed at you.
Interesting they mentioned 1500FPS velocity as ideal. I carry FN Five Seven with SS198 ammo trucking around 2000 FPS. 😎
I really hate this debate. Both get the job done. I carry either, depending on what I am wearing and the environment I go to and love both. No matter what you are carrying, you must be aware of your surroundings, be the first to get a shot on target and keep putting holes in the threat until the threat is no longer a threat.
This...👆
I have both a 9mm and a 45 but I prefer the 45 because the 9mm has a lot more penetration, mostly over penetration, and the 45 doesn't.
Shot placement is key if you ever have to use your firearm
What they made a 45 ACP?
I (still) be rocking the 45 Colt!
The “Taylor Knock Out Index”: Velocity (in fps) x Weight (in grains) x Diameter (in inches) = _ divided by 7,000 [to convert into foot pounds of energy].
9mm: [1901 AD] (Original)
Standard P - 1180 x 115 x .355 = 48,173.5 divided by 7,000 = 6.88 ft pd
Underwood Ammo 9mm:
Standard P - 1300 x 115 x .355 = 53,072.5 divided by 7000 = 7.58 ft pd
+P - 1100 x 147 x .355 = 57,403.5 divided by 7000 = 8.2 ft pd
+P+ - 1550 x 90 x .355 = 49,522.5 divided by 7000 = 7.07 ft pd - (?)
Notice how big and slow is better than little and faster every time? Well now, it ain’t just what she said anymore!
And on that note -
45 ACP: [1904 AD]
Standard P - 835 x 230 x .451 = 86,614.55 divided by 7,000 = 12.37 ft pd
Underwood Ammo 45 ACP:
+P - 925 x 255 x .452 = 106,615.5 divided by 7000 = 15.23 ft pd
Fools Figure, but Figures don't Fool! Which now leads us to the Facts -
45 Colt: [1872 AD] (Original)
Standard P - 1000 x 235 x .456 = 107,160 divided by 7,000 = 15.3 ft pd Original
Underwood Ammo 45 Colt:
Standard P - 1000 x 250 x .452 = 113,000 divided by 7,000 = 16.14 ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator
+P - 1400 x 250 x .452 = 158,200 divided by 7,000 = 22.6ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P
This is the results of big getting faster. So, "faster can be goods so long as size is not compromised!" And I quoted her on that.
[Liberty Ammunition 45 Colt:
Standard P - 1800 x 78 x .452 = 63,460.8 divided by 7,000 = 9.0658 ft pd - Civil Defense
Showing little going fast is just that, and nothing more!]
+P - 1325 x 325 x .452 = 194,642.5 divided by 7,000 = 27.8 ft pd - Long Flat Nose Gas Check Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast +P
This is the results of big getting bigger! As so did her eyes!
Standard P - 900 x 220 x .452 = 89,496 divided by 7,000 = 12.785 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (before it expands)
Standard P - 900 x 220 x 1.75 = 346,500 divided by 7,000 = 49.5 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (after it expands)
This is the results of big becoming HUGE! At this point she was speechless(?).
Yes I would love to see more things on
45 and a 9 m
I carry a .45ACP and 10mm are my 2 fave concealed carry.
My .45ACP has less recoil than most 9mm full size pistols the best .45 to buy for quality price accuracy easy to take apart clean and put back together is the Ruger model P94 or P95 because they dont make the P85 P89 or P90 .45 but there still around and are worth buying
The best gun is the one that’s in your hand when you need it!
9 for Me and My family
I don’t carry yet but I formerly owned a .40 and was pleased but I was leaning towards considering a .45 as I was under the impression that it had more stopping power. If stopping power is similar across the 9 mm, .40 and .45 then I would probably go with the one that feels better and is easier to handle when firing.
The S&W Shield .45 with the gritty handle feels great and comfortable. To be totally honest the best feeling comfortable pistol to hold and shoot is by far a 1911. I personally rotate and carry both. The 1911 is of course heavier but has a 5” barrel which is very accurate and we all know longer barrel means greater velocity and energy.
Knowing that 70% of people shot with a handgun will run away after being shot. At least with the 45 they run off with a much larger chunk off lead inside them. Three shots with a 9mm has a total of 345 grains vs the 45 at 690 grains of lead inside there body. This is just a different way off looking at this topic. The down side of the 9mm is that it is very ammo dependent or at least much more so than the 45.
9mm is readily available and cheaper to practice with. 9mm for me.
9mm in my state is jist as common as 40 and 45 is almost as common. 9mm is two bucks cheaper then 40 so i have no problem with it.
I just ordered the glock 44 for shooting rounds cheap (22lr) if i want to defend myself from an assaliant...gimme a .45acp all day
I've never been in a gun store that didn't sell a variety of both
I choose to carry .45 auto because I think it has less chance of over penetration. Am I worried about capacity? No, that is what extra magazines are for.
Talked to a big city trauma surgeon, he said it was rare for a 9mm gun shot victim to die. He even had one person shot 6 times with a 9mm and survived, however he said he only had one person who was shot with a 45 and survived all the other died. Call it what you want but the 45 dumps more energy on impact than the 9mm. I carry the SW 1911 Performance Center Pro Series 45.
Thanks for this information guys
I have both 9mm's and .45 cal pistols. BUT, I shoot my .45 way better than my 9's. So, I carry either my HK USP Compact .45 or my HK 45c both are (8+1 rders) w/2 etra 8 rd mags. I'm good!
Militant I shoot my shield.45 better than my g2 9mm nobody believes me lol but I think it has more to do with the better trigger in the shield.45
Statistics I've seen show: EVERY hand gun caliber take more than a single shot (on average) to incapacitate an attacker. Some were averaging some fraction of 2 (i.E. 1.38 rounds to stop.etc). Even the .22lr statistically ranks higher than many centerfires with more than a single shot employed. And I can dump 4-5 .22lr accurately into the target (at "STOP GET OFF ME!" ranges) in the same time as my .1911 45.
I have both I practice a lot with both of them I feel very confident with either one of them. Either one of them will require a Band-Aid.
only 2 things 9mm has the advantage over 45 is capacity and price of ammo if shoot better with 9mm shot placement is biggest factor