That 2nd (and full) PBR first time I’ve openly laughed during an engine teardown video. Planning to boost a stock M54B25 for an AWD E36 project…needless to say I will avoid 15PSI! Great video.
15PSI isnt always harmful, just depends on the size of the turbo. For example the GT30 cars I tune we go to 15psi all the time on pump gas no problem. But with a bigger 66mm turbo thats a much different story, especially when its super cold outside. Enjoy a PBR for me!
@@orbitalkage2256 slowly, although I do plan on dismantling the E46 donor car this month. Will probably do a lot of the engine controller and other things during the colder months later this year.
Thoughts and Questions for my own future reference. Cast or Forged? Detonation history? Fracture that decided it's time to go.... Sometimes it's not the moment it happens but just built up fatigue???? Thanks for taking the time to analyze.
EZ your a thinker I appreciate that! The crank and rods are forged while the pistons are cast. This car was running on 85ish% ethanol with very conservative timing. There is no evidence of any detonation. This engine has been boosted for 3 years or so and gets used fairly hard often. I knew I was playing in the danger zone with the boost level. It’s possible the rod in cylinder 3 had some type of fatigue related issue, it’s also possible that I was just very close to that hairy edge and cylinder 3 just happen to be a little weaker or experienced some abnormal cylinder pressures for whatever reason.
I had a different but similar motor come apart last year due to fatigue failure of a cast piston. That one took 6 or so years of very hard use before it let go. I can’t be disappointed when asking for 2-3x factory power levels on 25 year old OEM parts.
@@spankranchgarage Hi, great content. What do you call conservative timing with 15-16psi on E85? I would assume it was fatigue failure, you had a good run with it.
in my no expertise opinion, the cyl 3 is next to the turbo, the turbo got hot and heat the cyl 3 wall and the piston seal expanded. and from there u can imagine what happened. i think u should isolate the turbo from the engine a lil better.
Noticed you have a tubular bottom mount on that thing. Looks similar to my PPF tubular bottom mount manifold. Can't tell in the video, but did you run a scavenge pump, and if you didnt, how did you run the return?
hoy, My idea would be that intake beeing center feed, it does not require no turns, thus beeing the most air running cylinder. It ran the leanest, it ran the strongest. Your wideband shows mixture of all cylinder avarage not independant. So yeah, if It would of had melted, it would support my idea 100%, but i've also seen most built engines blow the last cylinder with front feed intake manifold. Thats why rally uses dual plenium ones For equal distribution.
Interesting. The failure was identified but not the cause. Heat and lack of lubrication jam things up. Massive torque bends things outright. Did you ever find the contributing causes?
Thanks for the comment. Torque (Cylinder pressure) is the causal factor for the rod bending and starting the chain reaction. It was a combination of low RPM, a very cool oxygen dense morning, towing a trailer, etc that I believe caused this failure. Unfortunately the design of this engine leaves almost no room for a bent rod before catastrophe strikes. If there was more piston skirt to crank counterweight clearance, I think it would of just bent a few rods and I would of noticed before it was too late.
"Throws 1.1 bar of boost on stock pistons and rods" ... Engine blows up... dude be like..." :O Whyyy??" These engines have a tendency to fail at above 0.7 bar (10 psi), where 0.5, 0.6 (8-8.5psi) is considered safe, and you went double that... I am building an M52TU (alu block) E46 stroked to 3.0L (and a full 3.0L swap, so everything from a M54B30 is in my engine already, even the ECU, and the throttle body). I put brand new pistons in it, but for the rods I went for the rods out of a Non-Vanos M50, they are quite beefy, and extremely cheap (paid about 60 Euro (or $65) for all 6 of them combined), went with 12mm bolts for the head out of a M57D30 diesel engine ($60) (I know people push engines at above 800hp with them) and my goal is to get 400hp safely for a daily driver. looking at around 10psi of boost. This video made me realize that I made the right choice when I put those conrods in. And if it still blows I am going all forged, baby! :D
400hp is very safe on stock rods I have been doing that for many years in a drift car. Whats important to realize is boost pressure has little to do with what an engine will handle. 21psi on a small turbo is fine for a stock engine. 21psi on a 66mm turbo is a time bomb. Torque bends rods not charge pressure. I am confident this engine would of taken much more boost if it was delayed into a higher rpm range.
@@spankranchgarage You are right, but you have a limited amount of RPM to play with, maybe an electronic boost controller will make it a bit easier if the tuner is good, so you get a more consistent power. But I can bet my car you are talking 21psi is on E85 or something. And I am talking about pump gas, because we don't have E85 here in Europe (well, we do, but it is 20-30 USD per gallon, because it is treated like alcohol for drinking (yeah, the government is mad, no need to ask :D)).
@@deanjohnson7283 Ahh yes I run all my turbo bmws on E85. I was spinning the 3.0 to 7350rpms to try to maximize the power curve. Like you said an electric boost controller would be sweet to make more boost up top
Hello my friend can you help me with a question? I have a stock e39 double vanos, can i turbo it and how much boost to be safe bare stock just injectors and remap and the accessories like intercooler headers and stuff like that. Please 🙏 i need your answer the turbo i want to use is maxpeedingrods gt3582
The boost pressure doesn't really matter its the cylinder pressure and resulting torque that does. With a good tune if you stick to 400 WTQ and below you will probably be okay.
@@spankranchgarage you think using m50b25 rods on the m54b30 will have any clearance issues?It would be m54 block b30 crank and pistons with m50b25 rods. theyre same length 135mm but the m50 rods are a lot more beefy. would be a cheap alternative
@@Joey-tc7wg You mean the Non Vanos M50b25 rods. Yeah they are a great option if you can find a cheap set. I would also very carefully inspect and measure some Chinese rods and run those if everything checks out. For this E39 I am just going to put it back together with stock parts and keep the torque a little lower
Have you had any success with timeserts on m54/m52tu non iron block I just pulled the threads out on a m52tu i tried to swap bolts of studs think I tried 75lbs as well I think it may be the main reason
I have a video on this topic and I have a new video coming soon. Pulled threads happened to me too finally. I have a nice cost effective way to fix coming soon
Stock rods and crank can handle boost, but the rod bolts are the weak link, ive over torqued one before to 180 degrees instead of 90 and it broke right away, ive made the same mistake with ARP2000's and the bolt just turned in to a rubber band lol, but it didint break.
I still struggle to understand how ARP rod bolts help handle torque. High rpm yes I could see that. But rod bolts don't see much if any stress on the compression stroke?
The internet claims the limits of stock rods are 450 ft. pounds at 4k or below and your gambling / on borrowed time. ( my opinion after a lot of reasearch) A 366 is a late bloomer on 3 liter?( so it should not be a issue? ) Is that manifold twin scroll? Ive seen n.a. m54b30's let go EXACTLY the same way just from high rpm use/ street abuse. (7K redine/ intake /exhaust/tune) internet also says S52/m54 crank has the worst harmonics around 7200. Prehaps 7300 redline has something to do with it?
Only other thought, the center two cylinders get fed more air with a m50 manifold on boost. ( easy to see just look through the throtel mounting hole) I always worry about that spraying w/m with a single nozzel. Extra fuel (meth ) may or may not help this m50 manifold issue who knows? I will say, if i see a overheat, its usually the front or the rear cylider. If I see a bent rod or ringland , its usually one of the middle 2. ( everyone i know personaly with a m5x and boost is running a m50 manifold. ) Ive seen a few m54's put a rod through the block. The m54b30 I saw let go the exact same way, it punched out through the oil filter housing/ oppisite side. Same exaxt carnage otherwise. Happened right when he lifted after a pull. Car might have made 230 to the tire on a good day? (Guess)⁸
Drew good stuff. It is a late bloomer however on this morning I was towing a trailer up a hill and was being foolish. It spoiled earlier than it ever has I saw 15-16psi around 3500rpm or so. I’m sure the torque was pretty high at that moment. It’s not a twin scroll manifold. Good point on the m50 mani getting a straight shot to the middle cylinders. Never thought of that. But otherwise yeah, I was pushing limits on both ends with the 7350 redline and the torque levels. It’s only a matter of time
I don’t know exactly but I can say it was making 400/400 on 7psi pump gas and I had it turned up to 15psi on e85. So 500/500 would be a safe bet if I had to guess
without changing anything like Pistons Rods crankshaft Head etc on the b30, stock u can give the b28 a bit more boost b30 is kind of a Long Stroke so More Boost the rod Bends, cracks easier than on the b28 the b28 had better piston Rings than b22,b25,b30 without changing anything i would go to 460-470 hp max and 370 ftlbs on a b28 some do 500-550 But thats More Risk on b30 i would recomend 450 455hp max and 330ftlbs stock then Ur safe when u Start changing Rods Pistons etc etc its another story
Alien engenering sells a 138mm rod/ piston combo, a better ratio? (Altho your stroke to bore stays the same) honda b series parts/ bearings if i recall right. ( difference is a Higher wrist pin location im guessing? ) a m54b25 and a m52b28 use the same crank according to bmw fwiw. I also read in a carillo catalouge a n54 rod and a m54b25 had the same part number. Lots you can mix and match im guessing, i just dont know for sure. I put a turbo s52 into my e39 wagon. Next motor will be a iron block with dual vanos zhp cams. Cut the single vanos head to fit dual vanos, still run ms43 . Seems like the best option for reliable power under the curve vs. Cost in 2023. ( probably into my e36.)
“That hole in the block not oem”🤣😂😂
Excellent diagnosis. I 100% agree with your conclusion
That 2nd (and full) PBR first time I’ve openly laughed during an engine teardown video. Planning to boost a stock M54B25 for an AWD E36 project…needless to say I will avoid 15PSI! Great video.
15PSI isnt always harmful, just depends on the size of the turbo. For example the GT30 cars I tune we go to 15psi all the time on pump gas no problem. But with a bigger 66mm turbo thats a much different story, especially when its super cold outside. Enjoy a PBR for me!
hey dude i’m planning on seeing if it’s worth doing the same with my e46 how is the project coming along
@@orbitalkage2256 slowly, although I do plan on dismantling the E46 donor car this month. Will probably do a lot of the engine controller and other things during the colder months later this year.
This is sick, currently acquiring parts right now to turbo my ZHP
Excellent deduction, Spanklock Holmes
Thank you kindly
That rod bearing is mint😂😅🤣
Working on a turbo setup for my 330 wagon I’m ready for the fun
So sad! One of my favorite E39 builds on UA-cam
That’s okay it’s an easy fix. She will be back soon!
Thoughts and Questions for my own future reference. Cast or Forged? Detonation history? Fracture that decided it's time to go.... Sometimes it's not the moment it happens but just built up fatigue???? Thanks for taking the time to analyze.
EZ your a thinker I appreciate that! The crank and rods are forged while the pistons are cast. This car was running on 85ish% ethanol with very conservative timing. There is no evidence of any detonation. This engine has been boosted for 3 years or so and gets used fairly hard often. I knew I was playing in the danger zone with the boost level. It’s possible the rod in cylinder 3 had some type of fatigue related issue, it’s also possible that I was just very close to that hairy edge and cylinder 3 just happen to be a little weaker or experienced some abnormal cylinder pressures for whatever reason.
I had a different but similar motor come apart last year due to fatigue failure of a cast piston. That one took 6 or so years of very hard use before it let go. I can’t be disappointed when asking for 2-3x factory power levels on 25 year old OEM parts.
@@spankranchgarage Hi, great content. What do you call conservative timing with 15-16psi on E85? I would assume it was fatigue failure, you had a good run with it.
@@CosmosMBTS I consider conservative timing on E85 low teens at peak torque, creeping to high teens after peak torque towards redline.
Beer can is oem, dont worry 👍👍😆😆
in my no expertise opinion, the cyl 3 is next to the turbo, the turbo got hot and heat the cyl 3 wall and the piston seal expanded. and from there u can imagine what happened. i think u should isolate the turbo from the engine a lil better.
Top mount
That would only make sense if it were cylinder 6 that failed
Lower the timing advance if your bending rods
Noticed you have a tubular bottom mount on that thing. Looks similar to my PPF tubular bottom mount manifold. Can't tell in the video, but did you run a scavenge pump, and if you didnt, how did you run the return?
At 4:12, it looks like it just drains directly to the side of the oil pan.
The beer 😂 🤦🏻
Now this is what I've been waiting for 😎 well done brudder
hoy, My idea would be that intake beeing center feed, it does not require no turns, thus beeing the most air running cylinder. It ran the leanest, it ran the strongest. Your wideband shows mixture of all cylinder avarage not independant. So yeah, if It would of had melted, it would support my idea 100%, but i've also seen most built engines blow the last cylinder with front feed intake manifold. Thats why rally uses dual plenium ones For equal distribution.
This is a great well thought out theory! I think I agree that cyl 3/4 gets the biggest charge.
Interesting. The failure was identified but not the cause. Heat and lack of lubrication jam things up. Massive torque bends things outright. Did you ever find the contributing causes?
Thanks for the comment. Torque (Cylinder pressure) is the causal factor for the rod bending and starting the chain reaction. It was a combination of low RPM, a very cool oxygen dense morning, towing a trailer, etc that I believe caused this failure. Unfortunately the design of this engine leaves almost no room for a bent rod before catastrophe strikes. If there was more piston skirt to crank counterweight clearance, I think it would of just bent a few rods and I would of noticed before it was too late.
hahahahaha yes, the pbr
I only see additional crankcase ventilation 🤷🏻♂️
"Throws 1.1 bar of boost on stock pistons and rods" ... Engine blows up... dude be like..." :O Whyyy??"
These engines have a tendency to fail at above 0.7 bar (10 psi), where 0.5, 0.6 (8-8.5psi) is considered safe, and you went double that...
I am building an M52TU (alu block) E46 stroked to 3.0L (and a full 3.0L swap, so everything from a M54B30 is in my engine already, even the ECU, and the throttle body). I put brand new pistons in it, but for the rods I went for the rods out of a Non-Vanos M50, they are quite beefy, and extremely cheap (paid about 60 Euro (or $65) for all 6 of them combined), went with 12mm bolts for the head out of a M57D30 diesel engine ($60) (I know people push engines at above 800hp with them) and my goal is to get 400hp safely for a daily driver. looking at around 10psi of boost.
This video made me realize that I made the right choice when I put those conrods in. And if it still blows I am going all forged, baby! :D
400hp is very safe on stock rods I have been doing that for many years in a drift car. Whats important to realize is boost pressure has little to do with what an engine will handle. 21psi on a small turbo is fine for a stock engine. 21psi on a 66mm turbo is a time bomb. Torque bends rods not charge pressure. I am confident this engine would of taken much more boost if it was delayed into a higher rpm range.
@@spankranchgarage You are right, but you have a limited amount of RPM to play with, maybe an electronic boost controller will make it a bit easier if the tuner is good, so you get a more consistent power. But I can bet my car you are talking 21psi is on E85 or something. And I am talking about pump gas, because we don't have E85 here in Europe (well, we do, but it is 20-30 USD per gallon, because it is treated like alcohol for drinking (yeah, the government is mad, no need to ask :D)).
@@deanjohnson7283 Ahh yes I run all my turbo bmws on E85. I was spinning the 3.0 to 7350rpms to try to maximize the power curve. Like you said an electric boost controller would be sweet to make more boost up top
Hello my friend can you help me with a question? I have a stock e39 double vanos, can i turbo it and how much boost to be safe bare stock just injectors and remap and the accessories like intercooler headers and stuff like that. Please 🙏 i need your answer the turbo i want to use is maxpeedingrods gt3582
The boost pressure doesn't really matter its the cylinder pressure and resulting torque that does. With a good tune if you stick to 400 WTQ and below you will probably be okay.
you kinda remind me of taylor ray, new sub!
Thank you! More shenanigans to come
@@spankranchgarage you think using m50b25 rods on the m54b30 will have any clearance issues?It would be m54 block b30 crank and pistons with m50b25 rods. theyre same length 135mm but the m50 rods are a lot more beefy. would be a cheap alternative
@@Joey-tc7wg You mean the Non Vanos M50b25 rods. Yeah they are a great option if you can find a cheap set. I would also very carefully inspect and measure some Chinese rods and run those if everything checks out. For this E39 I am just going to put it back together with stock parts and keep the torque a little lower
iron block upgrade time
They use the same connecting rod. Iron block just keeps the shrapnel inside better
Have you had any success with timeserts on m54/m52tu non iron block I just pulled the threads out on a m52tu i tried to swap bolts of studs think I tried 75lbs as well I think it may be the main reason
I have a video on this topic and I have a new video coming soon. Pulled threads happened to me too finally. I have a nice cost effective way to fix coming soon
Stock rods and crank can handle boost, but the rod bolts are the weak link, ive over torqued one before to 180 degrees instead of 90 and it broke right away, ive made the same mistake with ARP2000's and the bolt just turned in to a rubber band lol, but it didint break.
I still struggle to understand how ARP rod bolts help handle torque. High rpm yes I could see that. But rod bolts don't see much if any stress on the compression stroke?
Do we just upgrade the con rods then blow up another one and see what goes next?
Connecting rods would be nice but pistons will be shortly next. I think keeping torque around 450WTQ is the ticket for long life on stock parts.
Almost ready for the first crank on my b25. But it’s ms45. What’s the best cheap way for a tune? I have a 330 maf
I never got into the ms45 stuff, but I think you can tune it yourself now. There has been developments
On my MS45 turbo build iam going with a chaos calibration tune. I'll let yall know if its any good. Still waiting on other parts in the mean time
Went with Severn Tuning instead. MS45.1 and 6psi. It loves it
So strange you find these mysterious beer cans in your differential and now your motor???? What the eff mate
Wait till you see where I find the next one
To be fair the lubrication properties of PBR are impressive. They keep me going
Y’all crack me up 🤣
Did you have thread inserts in the block?
He said no
Stock internals? I’m turboing my m54 b30 but I re built and forged it.
Yup all stock
How many miles with a turbo lol
The internet claims the limits of stock rods are 450 ft. pounds at 4k or below and your gambling / on borrowed time. ( my opinion after a lot of reasearch) A 366 is a late bloomer on 3 liter?( so it should not be a issue? ) Is that manifold twin scroll? Ive seen n.a. m54b30's let go EXACTLY the same way just from high rpm use/ street abuse. (7K redine/ intake /exhaust/tune) internet also says S52/m54 crank has the worst harmonics around 7200. Prehaps 7300 redline has something to do with it?
Only other thought, the center two cylinders get fed more air with a m50 manifold on boost. ( easy to see just look through the throtel mounting hole) I always worry about that spraying w/m with a single nozzel. Extra fuel (meth ) may or may not help this m50 manifold issue who knows? I will say, if i see a overheat, its usually the front or the rear cylider. If I see a bent rod or ringland , its usually one of the middle 2. ( everyone i know personaly with a m5x and boost is running a m50 manifold. )
Ive seen a few m54's put a rod through the block.
The m54b30 I saw let go the exact same way, it punched out through the oil filter housing/ oppisite side. Same exaxt carnage otherwise. Happened right when he lifted after a pull. Car might have made 230 to the tire on a good day? (Guess)⁸
Drew good stuff. It is a late bloomer however on this morning I was towing a trailer up a hill and was being foolish. It spoiled earlier than it ever has I saw 15-16psi around 3500rpm or so. I’m sure the torque was pretty high at that moment. It’s not a twin scroll manifold. Good point on the m50 mani getting a straight shot to the middle cylinders. Never thought of that. But otherwise yeah, I was pushing limits on both ends with the 7350 redline and the torque levels. It’s only a matter of time
How much whp and torque the motor was on ?
I don’t know exactly but I can say it was making 400/400 on 7psi pump gas and I had it turned up to 15psi on e85. So 500/500 would be a safe bet if I had to guess
What turbo manifold is that?
Its an oldschool T4 boostlogic manifold
How big are those Vq studs ?
They are direct replacement for the stock bolts. I can measure them if you want
b30 is not the best for boost
bc of the length of the rod
Do you have any more info on this? Ive had better luck with my 2.8 liters but the rods are the same only the stroke and pistons change
without changing anything like Pistons Rods crankshaft Head etc on the b30,
stock u can give the b28 a bit more boost
b30 is kind of a Long Stroke so More Boost the rod Bends, cracks easier than on the b28
the b28 had better piston Rings than b22,b25,b30
without changing anything i would go to 460-470 hp max and 370 ftlbs on a b28
some do 500-550 But thats More Risk
on b30 i would recomend 450 455hp max and
330ftlbs
stock
then Ur safe
when u Start changing Rods Pistons etc etc its another story
Look exactly, messure if the crank is straight or bend
if u want to use it on the rebuild or other wise
Alien engenering sells a 138mm rod/ piston combo, a better ratio? (Altho your stroke to bore stays the same) honda b series parts/ bearings if i recall right. ( difference is a Higher wrist pin location im guessing? ) a m54b25 and a m52b28 use the same crank according to bmw fwiw. I also read in a carillo catalouge a n54 rod and a m54b25 had the same part number. Lots you can mix and match im guessing, i just dont know for sure. I put a turbo s52 into my e39 wagon. Next motor will be a iron block with dual vanos zhp cams. Cut the single vanos head to fit dual vanos, still run ms43 . Seems like the best option for reliable power under the curve vs. Cost in 2023. ( probably into my e36.)
Got an email or IG?
Barrymaxx@gmail.com or @GetYourSpankOn