Ground to the Chassis or Use Cable - Which Works Better?
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2012
- OK, let's put this to the test. Some claim that you will get better performance to your audio system if you use the chassis (or frame) for the return path. Others claim that running a ground cable directly to the battery negative is the way to go. So, which is it?
In this example, we used the D'Amore Engineering AD-1 Amp Dyno to load a Rockford Fosgate T1500-1bd at 1 Ohm. On average, this load test consumed 175 amps. Incidentally, 175 amps is about the same current, on average, that would be required by a 3,150 Watt audio system playing music (at 12 Volts DC with 75% amplifier efficiency).
The vehicle used in this example is a 2010 Nissan Altima. - Авто та транспорт
Very interesting!!! Thanks guys for the time and effort to educate the masses!!!
Excellent work, fellas!
This answered my question about running a ground from the front battery to rear distribution block. Not necessary in my application.
Thanks alot guys. I really enjoyed the video. If you still monitor posts from such old videos. Thanks alot though. Very in depth video. Loved it.
tony is a great guy.he has been working on great audio based products like SMD AMM-1
15 feet is also a relatively large length of cable. depending on your system, if you are using smaller cable you may find the cable works better than the frame. at any rate, its important to find the resitance of your particular frame first, and then guage that alongside your particular needs. if the resistance is suitable for your power needs, bingo theres your ground
all in all, while I like the intent of the video, its like proving gravity doesnt exist by filming a bird
great vid tony.
thank you guys ive been wondering on doing this my self ,, you saved me the time ans money well done guy very very well done
The vehicle has a big 3 upgrade so that's why its so good a ground.
If it didn't have it and the ground was just taken from some bolt in the trunk the o gauge or any gauge run up to a 4 gauge would be better from the negative....
In my vehicle adding a negative 20 foot kicker 4 gauge run from alternator mounting bolt straight to amp made a big difference in bass.
Excellent. Thank you. Just determining how much I will use the 2" tube frame of my rock crawler for grounding the stuff, and the answer is clear. With a full steel tube frame, I should have way better capacity than any unibody, so chassis it is. Saved me experimenting. Now the question is what to use to actually connect to the tube frame. I am thinking a 5/16 stainless through bolt with flats ground in the tube with de-oxit and dielectric grease with appropriate gauge from winch ground side to chassis. Two 1/0 should do it. That is roughly equivalent to a single 4/0. The winch can run 600 amps easily under load. Two 1/0 will feed it positive juice. Also bought your book and it was very informative. Highly recommended.
damn tony turn on the AC LOL good work bro
Excellent info
interesting. Good test too. I was a VW tech back when. Went to Lincoln tech and VW school. I would think that ground using the car sheet metal/frame would work better because it has a larger mass, thus conductor is larger. The electricity will travel the easiest point back to the battery, whereas using a ground cable to the battery ..... it only has one wire to go through.
Thank you for the vid. You just saved me some time and money.
Great video and very informative! I would assume a lot of this would depend on the particular vehicle....If you can, test it. If not, just ground in the trunk....cheaper and easier.
And that is exactly why we did this. As far as full frame vehicles, let's have that conversation after we confirm that. Yes, corrosion to the metal, etc from salt, weather, and age would be definite factor here - funny, we discussed exactly that after we filmed this.
Cool vid. I was surprised by the results, my money was on the 1/0 run having less voltage drop then the dinky chassis. Dinky chassis ftw!!!!
yes, but what he was leading too towards the end talking about a certain power level is that it is too an extent, there is a break over point where say 4 1/0 runs of OFC wire is better than the frame (the 4 1/0 is just an example). but this amount of grounds wouldn't be needed until extreme wattage is being ran in the vehicle. so frame > 1 run of 1/0, but maybe not so much when say there is multiple 1/0 runs of grounds, if that makes sense.
Good info. Just do both if you have the cash. I have 4 grounds to the frame and 2 ran to the back.
Would love to see if a full frame is the same story, I already planned doing the ground for my amps for my Explorer on the frame, but since the body is separate from the frame on full framers , you never know. Plus living up here in IL, the winters are quite harsh on our vehicles, but if you go though the frame completely, it probably does not make a difference.
i would like to see this test with both grounds hooked up then compare those numbers because most people that do a ground run to the back also do the chassis ground that they took off on the last test........ and then the same 3 tests on a full frame truck. i would think the gap would widen even more than the 14% in this video.
I wonder about the noise factor though if its a good idea to have a run of ground wire to the back along with a chassis ground to get rid of some of the frame noise for like sq purposes ?
So if I have one to chassis and one run up front would that be ok?
This is due to the bigger surface area of the sheet metal vs the copper, rather than the conductivity . Would that be a correct way of looking at it?
Thank you - now, which Tony were you speaking to?
I came here because my winch says to bring the ground cable to the neg terminal directly instead if grounding it on chassis. Seemed odd since the cables they provide are only 10 gauge
In my particular case I have a Ford expedition and fixing to install the big 3 upgrade and I'm confused on whether actually completely doing away with my factory engine ground or just leaving it and adding the new one and would it matter if I bolt it to the chassis or frame
hi i really need help i ahve a 2010 4dr nissan altima i cant find the engine bolt ground pliease help i wanna finsh my big 3 upgrade
I was not expecting that result to be honest. I am wondering if it is any different with a full frame car/truck, over a uni-body vehicle? Or a vehicle that lives up north with salt, and bad weather corrode the frame. Great video though, good info, as always.
You guys make great videos well done. Can you guys make a video comparing different quality power wires please? like true 4 awg or ofc vs cca appreciate it !
Thanks! To do a real comparison video, one needs to measure voltage drop across lengths of cables to make quantifiable comparisons - just like you see in this video. I just have not had the time to do so. Let's put it like this, about 90% of what is out there is more about marketing than performance . . .
CEAutoElectricSupply good stuff! I switched out an Audison Bit 1 to A Audiocontrol DM-810 with the hires Bluetooth dongle .had absolutely NO hiss/whine static with the Bit 1 ; ( using agood chassis ground point)
The DM-810 is terrible with noise. Also tried all three different grounding jumper positions (200ohms , isolatied, regular ) NO change. Any suggestions should I run a separate ground wire directly from the battery? ( 2017 Ford Taurus SHO with the terrible Sony amplified Sync3 )Thanks for any advice you could give
So, when adding subwoofer, amp, and capacitor to the car/ truck. The negative should just run to the chassis/ frame ground fine or run a wiring to the battery negative cable?
Which perform better??
yes thats right bud but ...AND THIS IS TO ALL HERE ,,,, NEVER NEVER PUT THE EARTH ON SOME THING THAT MOVES ... ITS A MOT FAIL
so if im using 5k true rms for my system in my Buick Park Avenue is it better for me to ground to frame or ground direct to battery? keep in mind im using knuKonceptz 4/0 power wire and Ground wire for my main run to the distribution block and from there 2 and 4 gauge ofc goes to the amps. i don't do any of that scoring stuff so this is just for daily driving. any advice would be greatly appreciated. Big 3 also being done.
Im doing 4/0 also fro my truck, for big three also, so many people say oh you dont need that, thats overkill....I like to make sure especially when adding a 2k inverter.
I just read why not do both frame and full length back to battery.
ok, I know this is an old video but.....
where exactly were you connected in back?
when putting battery to amp should i do + frist
yep, that's what i was thinking, if you use both, frame and a straight run. bet it would be decently lower than the 283 mV
Has anyone tried this and have a link to a vid?
I know this video is super old, but i had a question. Doing a “big 3” In a unibody car with its battery in the trunk when grounding the alternator to the battery does this still apply? Or should I go ahead and run 0ga from the alt case straight to the battery neg?
Battery negative to frame rail, case of alternator to frame rail on same side.
how about running a discrete ground in parallel with a ground wire to the chassis from the frame. that should cut your voltage drop roughly in half, if you had equal drop with the chassis and wire.
wow just was asking this
Ok... so I have some re-wiring to do
have a question related to grounds. I have the option of grounding my battery to the frame(thick metal) OR the strut tower area. which is better and why? my vehicle is a 2006 Honda accord.
Frame grounding eliminates any chance of improper grounding connection. With a unibody car such as yours you could have success pretty much anywhere.
Frame.....I'd stay clear of the strut tower
Try this on factory wiring. No big 3/4 upgrades. You will see massive voltage drops. It's always best to run real copper cable to and from your amps/head unit.
Um, he did use 1/0AWG, pure OFC copper wire. Listen up!
Check out 1996BLKBauer at the SMD forums. His build can be found in the Members Rides & Builds forum. He has one of our kits and shows a ton of before / after voltage drop measurments.
My Amp will be right next to the battery in my BMW E90. I've read on some forums that connecting the earth direct to the battery will cause interference, is this true or false? If I can get away with it, I'd much rather connect direct to the battery to avoid sanding paint off the chassis and ripping carpeted areas up to look for earthing points.
What does the return path for the starter look like if the main ground cable from the battery negative comes loose from the body and your amplifier is grounded to the battery negative terminal? For this reason, we never recommend grounding an amplifier to the battery negative directly.
I have rebuilt alot of amps over the years and have seen chassis grounds fail due to corrosion or becoming loose over time. Any suggestions on aiding this when people use chassis grounds? I've always been against them because the issues I've seen over the years.
Here in Michigan we deal with alot of salt and ice packed under the vehicle for months out of the year, when you have all of that at your connections at the frame. Theres many other states that see the same.
strip the paint around the hole. use a star washer between terminal and vehicle. Use nut and bolt fastening not just a sheet metal screw. Then primer and paint over the whole affair. Should last 5+ years with no issues.
Use Nyloc nuts.
Ok I have a 2003 monte carlo unibody and I am going to be running 5k rms (2 amps strapped) and a 4 channel off of a 320 amp alt and 2 kinetik 2400 bats what is my best option for ground I am hearing different things from every one! I am doing the big 3 ect just don't know where to start thanls
I'd use the frame rails for the return path. You may also choose to visit our web site - we have everything you'll need and then some.
CEAutoElectricSupply sounds good what's you Web page same as your name? So I don't have to run any ground runs back? I got 2 0 gauge runs of power to the batterys just seen a mix of info on grounding. I do need to order some more supply for this build and another.
Upset
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Prove it. We did.
what the right cable??
so in my 99 tahoe. it's better to just run to the frame instead of a run to the rear?
yup. go to the frame if its not a unibody.
Ok. .thks cause all this time i been planning runs of gnd as well
John Monger so which did u do? I have a 98 Silverado with about 4krms total I'm about to install. Planning on 2 0 gauge power runs and 2 0 gauge ground runs from front battery to rear batteries. Should I just ground to frame under truck instead? Is 1 better then other or should I just do both and say heck with it lol. I already have all my wire and plenty to do anyway possible lol
John Monger that was a question for u but everyone else reading also lol I didn't mean to just assume u knew all this just tied it all into 1 post lol
That's too funny!
well i my self in my setup would use solid bar copper straight to battery with some 300mmsq cable at the ends, and the copper bar between the wheels on both sides lucky for me my car has rubber grommits all along so i can easy fix the bar on it. any way why lose the chassis just use both cable and chassis. i have a simple way for the live cable to which i will use 300mmsq for the side too, i just want to squeeze every electron to my system lol because my power output be in the range of 17,000 watts or bit more for add on,s.
I should have said "shorter cable", not "smaller cable".... sorry
this review isn't completely accurate since the car had a BIG3 upgrade.. it makes a good difference but i still prefer running an additionnal cable as a ground since it eliminates a lot of noise problems
Not only that but copper will always conduct better and have less resistance than a steel frame rail the length of the vehicle...just sayin
I have a 08 grand prix. unibody, should I ground to the front battery instead of rear?
doesnt matter where you ground it, as long as body panel is properly grounded to chassis.
Chevy trucks have a voltage sensor that won't read second battery without grounding to main battery
This is very very true. I have a 05 tahoe and have that issue when computer doesn't turn alt on until battery starts getting low. Am gonna try 1 run of ground from fro t to rear see if that helps. I have 2 mechman 370 1 self excited other is 2 pin and self excited does all the work until it starts struggling then 2 pin jumps in.
@@terrancedesormeauxjr2559 🔴 You definitely have more going than I do. I have 2011 Avalanche 250amp alt, red and yellow top optima batteries ran in parallel. Power and ground wire from front battery to back all 2/0. I ran 2/0 through that ground sensor from start battery back to the original engine ground along side the factor 8 gauge wire. I also ran 2/0 from alternator to frame/chasis. The alternator reacts the way the PCM/BCU controls it, seems to be working as designed. You should check out a few of the videos on here concerning the Chevy RVC system and it's functionality. It's very interesting what GM has done and how it's all suppose to work together to conserve fuel and vehicle performance. Good luck with everything, sound like you have a real banger with the electrical your running.👍🏾
LOL, I am 1996BLKBauer on SMD, on here I have my old name. once I get my amps, and subs hooked up, I will see how much voltage drop I have. I don't have the amount of equipment that you have, so I cannot do the precise work that you do. such as loading down the amp the same. But for unibody vs. full frame the frame is more or less independent of the body, where in the unibody the whole car/truck is all connected together.
i should have said tony's, lol.
at dcrandon... If you knew who he is, you would...
Just do both. Its not "that" expensive.
Got that shiny new aluminum wire I see. Oh but it's oxygen free, LOL.
Save yourself and buy some battery cable. Real 100% copper wire rated at much higher specs than any car audio wonder wire. Plus it's cheaper.
absolutely true. tho i used to get docked a few points on my install scores when competing in IASCA for using non IASCA member mfr power and interconnect wiring. At that time a lot of guys were making their own rca cables out of superior industrial twisted pair bulk cable and a plan was concocted to pool together and register the brand name "voodoo" with IASCA and pay the membership fee to avoid the scoring deductions. Then anyone could print out a label and put it on their wires.
I think it made it as far as a bogus website that was created and died when they saw the exhorbitant fees. I also heard monster and other mfrs were not amused at the idea.
The idea that you think you could actually hear a difference in bass is exactly what makes me not respect any of your opinions!
Good little video. The dark haired guy might want to change his sweat soaked t-shirt before you do another one...sort of disgusting. I wouldn' want him inside my car doing any wiring...
completely usless test. if you ran the ground to the alt case you shouldnt have seen any drop. instead you ran it to the front battery which has its own ground where is that run to? how can you expect to get a good test if you didnt upgrade the battery ground to the alt case?
Incorrect. The battery negative terminal and case of alternator are connected just below the battery to the chassis at the same location.
@jim davidson - Jim, the cable used in this demonstration is pure copper with a PVC jacket rated at 105 degC. It has a "shiny new aluminum" appearance as it is tin plated to resist corrosion and oxidation. Welding cable is ideal for welders and not suitable for automotive use as its jacket does not carry a high enough heat rating to be used in the engine compartment nor is it petroleum resistant so it quickly breaks down should you get oil or gas on it. I stand by the results we've demonstrated. Next time, maybe ask before attempting to discredit another's efforts.
here is a perfect example:
www.amazon.com/NOCO-WL1025BK-Black-Welding-Cable/dp/B00858LFT4
as you can see it has the same attributes of your pvc. I would add its also flameproof and often cheaper. Love your video though, agree with everything you say in it.
That's right Doug. Tell them how uninformed you are.