Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy33 Get the wiring knowledge you need. Wiring Fundamentals course now 50% OFF: hpcdmy.co/offery33 TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - Introduction 3:40 - Grounding issues 5:10 - Ground offsets 5:55 - Example 1 - Starter motor cranking 9:35 - Example 2 - Sensor grounding 14:15 - Example 3 - Coil grounding - alternator charging current 17:45 - Magnetic field noise 21:25 - Star earthing 27:15 - Questions
I have completed the EFI Tuning Fundamentals course and as I've been building my engine and installing a new Link ecu I find that most of my questions are Ground wire related. This video answered every question. Today we fire this project up for the first time. HPA, you guys are outstanding.
Fantastic video. I'm an Electronics technician as well as an amateur radio operator and these principles also apply to RF grounding and bonding as we call it in radio
I’m an EE with focus on RF and have been an amateur radio operator (“ham”) for more than 35 years. & I’ve designed large P25 public safety comm systems and supervised rollout and installation. & I’ve installed countless vehicle 2-way radio and communications systems and audio systems but worked primarily with emergency response vehicles. Most police cruisers and ambulances are 12V neg ground. Most fire apparatus and specialized rescue vehicles are 24v neg ground. With all of the biomedical and advanced communications equipment, the electrical systems in all of these vehicles, pales in comparison to what I’ve seen in the videos on this channel. I’m absolutely amazed at the level of complexity and advanced technology used in these performance type vehicles. The level of knowledge related in these videos is excellent and very much appreciated. Thank You!
This was a huge help. I've done a Ford V6 turbo engine swap into an RX7. I figured out that Signal Return was a ground, but I didn't understand that it was the ground for the sensors. I haven't had any issues since it's taken care of by the factory wiring. However, now that I'm pruning a few things, I'll make sure these are correct. I couldn't have found this at a better time. Thank you.
Improperly grounded starter can lead to magnetized sensor wheels or shafts that can cause mysterious driveability concerns. The starter should have a dedicated ground strap directly to the battery to avoid the large inrush current to travel thru the engine if at all possible. 😉
@@lukemurace if the engine is grounded via a lug on the starter (typical for many cars) there will be no high current flowing through the engine block.
I've been a tracing down why the hell my drivers side wheel bearing keeps going out and it HAS to be my starter ground. I'm making custom ground cables to replace everything on my car and making a ground straight to the battery for sure.
@@lukemurace Usually starters will have at least 2 bolts attaching it to the engine or transmission you could always add the ground strap there behind the starter between the mounting bolt
So important and such a commonly overlooked part of wiring! I’ve had to tune well fix then tune an sr20 that was lacking grounds that caused the engine to sync incorrectly around 50% of the time when starting. (Would sync 1 position advanced on a 12/1 trigger disc in oem cas.
Coming from Electric hyperarcs, EMI is incredibly strong when the voltage and current go to high levels and than it's extremely important to apply all the possible "defensive" techniques to not get a lot of noise in the sensors / communication wires.
Thank you! This video helped me learn how to fix my car lol. Today one of the wires in my mazda lit up during starting. So i fixed the wire but I wasnt sure what caused it. After watching this, I remembered one of my engine mount bolts is slightly rusted enough to make one of the bolts move. This bolt is where the chassis to block ground strap is so when the engine moves it moves just enough to loosen that strap causing some weird issues in car. Thank you again :)
That's awesome man! Well not the issue, but being able to identify the cause and solving it. Good on you for taking the time to educate yourself so that you can use knowledge like this as a tool. Thanks for taking the time to comment and share this too. Things like this are why Ben and Andre started HPA 😎 - Taz.
Whats the difference between running the coil ground back to battery neg. vs grounding the coils to the head, which grounds to chassis and back to battery neg?
Magnetic field When we have a coil screwed into the engine bay and the chassis is grounded to the engine block, we automatically have a small loop area
Do you have a practical example of an engine bay or diagrams of a star point grounding setup? I've always heard people talk on them like this and Haltech but no one has shown an install in practice step by step
IMO, best example would be to take apart a stock vehicle with the factory wiring intact. Preferably one that doesn't have electrical issues. Another option would be to look at the factory wiring diagrams. While there's are examples of terrible designs, most OEMs already figured it out.
Speaking of grounding, if a battery is in the trunk, is it alright to ground to the chassis then ground the block to the chassis as well? Or is it necessary to run 2 long wires from front to back for power and ground?
My Mercedes C280 has the battery in the trunk from factory and it only has 1 ground cable going to the chassis rail in the trunk, it starts great and has no power issues, it has plenty of earths in the engine bay for various things though
I have a g37s and I used a stillen ground kit and right after I installed it I was on E and wanted to switch from 91 to e85 and I did so and I switch my map to e85 and drove off and I hit it kinda hard while getting on the fwy and my dash lit up I got a code P0605 and I'm don't know if it was found the ground kit or because the parameters was trying to reset or what
Hello HPA, I have a question regarding the smart coils and their grounding. We have a 5 pin smart coil and the data sheet says to ground the primary side to batt neg. This seems to me like a very bad idea because of the large loop area but would like to know your thoughts on this. Thank you
Joseph has some great info here for you: www.hpacademy.com/forum/practical-harness-construction-club-level/show/grounding-aem-ig1a-rx7-ignition-coils - Taz.
Do you have information on ecu efi technology usa 2.1?How does it work for 6 cylinders with split coils?Unfortunately, there is not enough information in your forum. :(
One time doing a engine replacement I missed one of the grounds and obviously it wouldn't start, never again 🤣🤦 luckily I figured it out quick but still not good 🤣
Hey guys, hopefully someone can help me with my query. I have a standalone ecu which is grounded to the head as per the instructions The battery is in the trunk so it is grounded to chassis with 0 guage The engine is grounded from the gearbox to the chassis with 0 guage, and I added an extra 0 guage ground from engine mount to chassis. There is a couple issues I would like help with. The resistance between head and chassis is nill when car is off, when car is running at idle I see a high resistance, with load and rpm the resistance gets greater and greater. The ecu voltage received is lower than what the power coming in is, and with more load the voltage drops pretty dramatically even when the battery voltage and power coming in does not. Where should I look to rectify this? Am I okay to ground head to chassis? The ecu says to connect to head and not chassis ground so it seems like I wouldn’t be able to do this? Would using the old slightly knackered ground strap be adding to these issues? I assumed more grounds (even if it’s low quality) would help? I can use 2 new ones vs 2 new and 1 old Any help is appreciated greatly - thanks in advance
Soldered electrical connections can become brittle over time and break especially with heat and vibration, both of which there are lots of in a competition car. Crimped connections are far safer in the long term in most cases.
they're not wrong. soldered connections are crap compared to a properly crimped connection with strain relief. I've seen more soldered (wire) connections fail than anything else. Closely followed by *cheap* butt connectors crimped with a radioshack crimper. Get the right crimping tools and learn how to use them. The EAA (planes) and ABYC (boats) both prefer crimping as the primary means of wire connection, and for good reason.
"Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints” breaking under fatigue, and removes strain."
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Introduction
3:40 - Grounding issues
5:10 - Ground offsets
5:55 - Example 1 - Starter motor cranking
9:35 - Example 2 - Sensor grounding
14:15 - Example 3 - Coil grounding - alternator charging current
17:45 - Magnetic field noise
21:25 - Star earthing
27:15 - Questions
Why would you not show the best practice as a diagram instead of showing all the wrong ways to do it as diagrams??
I have completed the EFI Tuning Fundamentals course and as I've been building my engine and installing a new Link ecu I find that most of my questions are Ground wire related. This video answered every question. Today we fire this project up for the first time.
HPA, you guys are outstanding.
Fantastic video. I'm an Electronics technician as well as an amateur radio operator and these principles also apply to RF grounding and bonding as we call it in radio
I’m an EE with focus on RF and have been an amateur radio operator (“ham”) for more than 35 years.
&
I’ve designed large P25 public safety comm systems and supervised rollout and installation.
&
I’ve installed countless vehicle 2-way radio and communications systems and audio systems but worked primarily with emergency response vehicles. Most police cruisers and ambulances are 12V neg ground. Most fire apparatus and specialized rescue vehicles are 24v neg ground. With all of the biomedical and advanced communications equipment, the electrical systems in all of these vehicles, pales in comparison to what I’ve seen in the videos on this channel.
I’m absolutely amazed at the level of complexity and advanced technology used in these performance type vehicles.
The level of knowledge related in these videos is excellent and very much appreciated.
Thank You!
This was a huge help. I've done a Ford V6 turbo engine swap into an RX7. I figured out that Signal Return was a ground, but I didn't understand that it was the ground for the sensors. I haven't had any issues since it's taken care of by the factory wiring. However, now that I'm pruning a few things, I'll make sure these are correct. I couldn't have found this at a better time.
Thank you.
Stoked that this helped you out mate! Interesting swap too, I hope you enjoy the process of getting it up and running 😎 - Taz.
Improperly grounded starter can lead to magnetized sensor wheels or shafts that can cause mysterious driveability concerns. The starter should have a dedicated ground strap directly to the battery to avoid the large inrush current to travel thru the engine if at all possible. 😉
I have a nissan sr20 in an s13 the starter motor is grounded through the block from factory, is there a way to add a dedicated ground after the fact?
@@lukemurace if the engine is grounded via a lug on the starter (typical for many cars) there will be no high current flowing through the engine block.
I've been a tracing down why the hell my drivers side wheel bearing keeps going out and it HAS to be my starter ground. I'm making custom ground cables to replace everything on my car and making a ground straight to the battery for sure.
@@lukemurace Usually starters will have at least 2 bolts attaching it to the engine or transmission you could always add the ground strap there behind the starter between the mounting bolt
body..not battery..
So important and such a commonly overlooked part of wiring!
I’ve had to tune well fix then tune an sr20 that was lacking grounds that caused the engine to sync incorrectly around 50% of the time when starting. (Would sync 1 position advanced on a 12/1 trigger disc in oem cas.
Coming from Electric hyperarcs, EMI is incredibly strong when the voltage and current go to high levels and than it's extremely important to apply all the possible "defensive" techniques to not get a lot of noise in the sensors / communication wires.
So the ecu should only be grounded to the engine?
Thank you! This video helped me learn how to fix my car lol. Today one of the wires in my mazda lit up during starting. So i fixed the wire but I wasnt sure what caused it. After watching this, I remembered one of my engine mount bolts is slightly rusted enough to make one of the bolts move. This bolt is where the chassis to block ground strap is so when the engine moves it moves just enough to loosen that strap causing some weird issues in car. Thank you again :)
That's awesome man! Well not the issue, but being able to identify the cause and solving it. Good on you for taking the time to educate yourself so that you can use knowledge like this as a tool.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and share this too. Things like this are why Ben and Andre started HPA 😎 - Taz.
Take $25 USD off ANY HP Academy course with this coupon: UA-cam25
Enroll now: hpcdmy.co/25offytc - Taz 👨🏻
Can you ground the ECU on the cylinder head at the same spot on the cylinder head where I have all of my coils grounded at or should they be separate?
Whats the difference between running the coil ground back to battery neg. vs grounding the coils to the head, which grounds to chassis and back to battery neg?
Excellent, thank you.
Magnetic field
When we have a coil screwed into the engine bay and the chassis is grounded to the engine block, we automatically have a small loop area
Do you have a practical example of an engine bay or diagrams of a star point grounding setup? I've always heard people talk on them like this and Haltech but no one has shown an install in practice step by step
IMO, best example would be to take apart a stock vehicle with the factory wiring intact. Preferably one that doesn't have electrical issues. Another option would be to look at the factory wiring diagrams.
While there's are examples of terrible designs, most OEMs already figured it out.
can the ECU be grounded to chassis ground?
If possible, is it okay to connect the (-)terminal of each product directly to the (-)terminal of the battery instead of grounding?
Are the diagrams all blurry?
Speaking of grounding, if a battery is in the trunk, is it alright to ground to the chassis then ground the block to the chassis as well? Or is it necessary to run 2 long wires from front to back for power and ground?
grounds to chassis are fine
My Mercedes C280 has the battery in the trunk from factory and it only has 1 ground cable going to the chassis rail in the trunk, it starts great and has no power issues, it has plenty of earths in the engine bay for various things though
I have a g37s and I used a stillen ground kit and right after I installed it I was on E and wanted to switch from 91 to e85 and I did so and I switch my map to e85 and drove off and I hit it kinda hard while getting on the fwy and my dash lit up I got a code P0605 and I'm don't know if it was found the ground kit or because the parameters was trying to reset or what
Ive got a couple motorcycles that are grounded to the frame. I even have a single conductor to my turn signals on my old BMW Airhead.
My Mercedes has the battery in the boot from factory and only has one ground cable to the chassis rail in the boot and it runs well, starts great.
I'm sure there's also a ground strap connecting the engine to the chassis.
Hello HPA, I have a question regarding the smart coils and their grounding. We have a 5 pin smart coil and the data sheet says to ground the primary side to batt neg. This seems to me like a very bad idea because of the large loop area but would like to know your thoughts on this. Thank you
Joseph has some great info here for you: www.hpacademy.com/forum/practical-harness-construction-club-level/show/grounding-aem-ig1a-rx7-ignition-coils - Taz.
@@hpa101 Thank you! Much appreciated. Seems to not be just me who’s confused haha.
Do you have information on ecu efi technology usa 2.1?How does it work for 6 cylinders with split coils?Unfortunately, there is not enough information in your forum. :(
You mean duel fire coil?
@@bmmarshall79 Yes, I want to run this ecu on 6 cylinders 7mgte.
Can this apply to non efi vehicles.
Yes
One time doing a engine replacement I missed one of the grounds and obviously it wouldn't start, never again 🤣🤦 luckily I figured it out quick but still not good 🤣
Lucky man! Definitely not something you want to leave to sort itself out for you eh haha - Taz.
When replacing the engine are you able to relocate the ground straps
Hey guys, hopefully someone can help me with my query.
I have a standalone ecu which is grounded to the head as per the instructions
The battery is in the trunk so it is grounded to chassis with 0 guage
The engine is grounded from the gearbox to the chassis with 0 guage, and I added an extra 0 guage ground from engine mount to chassis.
There is a couple issues I would like help with.
The resistance between head and chassis is nill when car is off, when car is running at idle I see a high resistance, with load and rpm the resistance gets greater and greater.
The ecu voltage received is lower than what the power coming in is, and with more load the voltage drops pretty dramatically even when the battery voltage and power coming in does not.
Where should I look to rectify this? Am I okay to ground head to chassis? The ecu says to connect to head and not chassis ground so it seems like I wouldn’t be able to do this?
Would using the old slightly knackered ground strap be adding to these issues? I assumed more grounds (even if it’s low quality) would help? I can use 2 new ones vs 2 new and 1 old
Any help is appreciated greatly - thanks in advance
so in a perfect world battery neg -> block -> chassis
not
neg->chassis->block
is that correct?
Fuel tech have an block ground and a battery ground on all their devices it’s so stupid
Ark design and their car that never ran comes to my mind
👍
Can you not directly ground to the battery ??????????
How many grounds do you want to connect directly to the battery? 🤔
I would like to know if I can run a wire directly to the engine and battery
you always directly connect to the battery
Frist?
I love these informative videos but i can't listen to this dude.
Use the captions instead 😎 Hope that helps - Taz
"Don't solder your connections"
*later on*
"Bad connections can cause nuisance performance issues and cost lots of dyno time"
Hence the not soldering except for some specific situations 😎
Soldered electrical connections can become brittle over time and break especially with heat and vibration, both of which there are lots of in a competition car. Crimped connections are far safer in the long term in most cases.
they're not wrong. soldered connections are crap compared to a properly crimped connection with strain relief. I've seen more soldered (wire) connections fail than anything else. Closely followed by *cheap* butt connectors crimped with a radioshack crimper. Get the right crimping tools and learn how to use them. The EAA (planes) and ABYC (boats) both prefer crimping as the primary means of wire connection, and for good reason.
"Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints” breaking under fatigue, and removes strain."