LOG profiles excell in outdoor high contrast situations 12 -14 stops DR. Low light (indoors) best handled with PP to off (my choice) or PP2, or PP6 with some adjustment. My A7Sii & A73 run with this setup.👍
I think it may be because the megapixels are larger that the noise is bigger. I’m not convinced its dual gain. It looks like noise reduction to me. I could be wrong. Seems to get a bit blotchy. The ND filter idea is a great idea thanks .
haha, I was thinking about doing that at a wedding, during dance scenes, 12.8000 was just to bright for some of the lights, but i knew everything slightliy under that would be grainy as fuck... but I thought it would be just ridiculous to actually put on a nd filter :D but it actually makes sence
So the recommended rage in low light is 640 to 3200 Then if more light needed bump upto direct 12800 So what's low light profile if iso range is doesn't matter Cine 4 is balanced without keeping mind iso range
Kind of a flawed test later in the video. ISO does not mean the same between the picture profiles. You should base it off of the native isos. So choose someting like 5 1/3 stops above native iso. All of them will actually perform similarly when done properly. Gerald Undone has a great video on this.
this is very true, although if I am in a lighting situation in a wedding where I can't choose the light and tell the bride that I need them to turn more lights on I will choose the best setting I can with low noise. It's great to talk about specs but when I am on set I need to know the best setting for the light situation I am in
Slog requires different exposure. I.e 1.7 - 2 stops over. Exposing correctly for each pp makes a difference so this kind of negates all of your plan to make this even. You did not expose correctly for each setting. However the duel ISO in the s3 is superb.
I'm afraid you will keep getting these comments about the base ISO being different from one picture profile to the next. The base ISO of 640 and the switchover at 12,800 only applies to Slog 3. Gerald undone tested and listed all the base ISO and switch over ISO for all the other picture profiles. Thanks for the work here. Just missing that crucial detail. You can screenshot all those values from Gerald's video.
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
The "dual native ISO" step is 4 stops over the base ISO in whatever picture profile (not including the extended ISO range).. Check out Philip Bloom's video on this
I just did some tests in slog 3 and the results at 12800 w a fixed aperture yet changing the shutter for exposure (+2 stops btw) are ridiculously amazing looking. the noise isn't the same 1200-10000, it even gives a nice filmic grain while shooting at 12800. the noise outside of 640 is terrible at any ISO. I wonder why
Yeah outside of 640 is ugly, like horizontal lines of muddy video noise. It's SHOCKING that SO MANY of those blind A7S3 raving reviewers (Matt ugly-beard-brain/ Gerald/ DPreview) NEVER mention this obvious handicap - such obvious biased AF idiots!
Wouldn't a more accurate comparison be with ISO stops? Philip bloom did a test showing the switch over is different depending on the lowest native ISO, its not the ISO value , it's in the stops. I shoot weddings as well, it would be nice doing the test in some difficult situations! Thanks for the testing!
Probably in other tests. This was just to test 3 different iso levels all equal just for curiosity haha. I tried to be as accurate as possible just to test picture profiles at the same ISO levels even though I know S L9g requires added exposure
Can you help me understand.. If im shooting at 640 iso in slog3 and the m.m is -1 or 0.1 for example and im at F4 or even f2.8 and im still abit dark in frame… do i push up to iso 1000 or 3000 or go right to 12800 ? Thanks
@@DotAndDab if its only that much just a stop or two of iso increase would be no issue at all, iso only starts getting noisy around 3-5K and up with that camera and switches to second native at 12K
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
I tested my Sony ZV-e1 on ISO today and the best result was 160 ISO. At 640 ISO the image became very noisy. Yes, when I set 12800 after 10000, the native ISO is very strongly felt , there is very little noise. Since on Sony ZV-e1 the sensor is like on a7s3, on the first camera the first native ISO (640) showed itself very badly, everything was tested on Slog3. I concluded that if there is enough light, if there is no need to raise the ISO, it is better not to switch to the first native (640), but to leave the lowest value (160), what do you think about this?
No no no no. It all depends on the log profile being used. For slog3 the 640 iso is the lowest possible one und thus equal to iso 80 or 100 without log. In slog3 below 640 iso every iso is underlined. That's because it digitaly under exposes as if you go less than 80 iso. So never ever go below the base iso on log profiles.
I believe the switchover has been changed to 4.33EV above base ISO in production cameras, vs 4.66EV in pre-production units. The A7S and A7SII had similar switchovers at 4.33EV, but the base ISO in S-log were different.
Not 100% sure about it being dual native ISO like everyone's saying, as this has been the case with SLOG3 since the A7s2. You can find older forums describing a similar thing nofilmschool.com/boards/questions/seriously-how-do-you-get-rid-noise-slog-3-sony-a7s-ii To me it just sounds like the noise reduction Sony does generally perhaps doesn't work as effectively on certain ISO ranges in Slog picture profiles? Not sure
It's crazy to think on a $5000 camera, you need to put on an ND at night to get usable footage from Slog3. This simply wasn't an issue on the a7sii and a bad oversight during development, stopping me from buying the camera :/
Hey Jas, hope you're doing well! I'm wondering if this applies similar to the a6400 and the other aps-c Sony cameras? Is there another higher ISO number that you can hit on the a6400 that cleans right up?
Nope. The only APS-C sensor with a dual native ISO is Fuji's X-Trans. It's at 640 and 2000 for F-log in Fuji. Sony a6400 has a very slight switch in photo mode at 400ISO but that applies to raw files only and I doubt you'll see it in videos.
I find that the comparison with the same exposure is not entirely correct. With SLog 3, I can overlay more at ISO 5000 than with Cine 2. I've tried that and then can't find that the image is more noisy. Or am I wrong?
Does the Dual Native ISO work without any Picture Profile? I filmed some test shots at 12,800 and 16,000 ISO with no PP and noticed there was barely any grain in the shot so it seems like it does, just wanted other opinions.
hello bro i am from india gujrat my a7s3 camera shoot in grains and noice video and no clear video pls support me pls help i am wedding video grapher village leval pls suggetion seting camera
It's ok, its true. But look how this guy talking 14 minutes like some bot or marketer and begging for attention, damn... I'm watching first 2 minutes, ok, I know everything. He talked this shit 5 times more, and repeat another 10 times - I rewind for 8 minutes later and he keep repeating same thing! I hate youtubers
LOG profiles excell in outdoor high contrast situations 12 -14 stops DR. Low light (indoors) best handled with PP to off (my choice) or PP2, or PP6 with some adjustment. My A7Sii & A73 run with this setup.👍
If you added a 0:00 timestamp in the description, it will show all the points on the video itself 👌
WOW. Can't thank you enough haha. I never knew that :) Absolute legend! Shoutout for you!
I think it may be because the megapixels are larger that the noise is bigger. I’m not convinced its dual gain. It looks like noise reduction to me. I could be wrong. Seems to get a bit blotchy. The ND filter idea is a great idea thanks .
Love the effort into this, imma get back to this video if I end up getting one 💯
Ma man. I expect a pre order soon 😏
Great job on this...Hello from San Jose, California!
It's not dual native iso. It's software NR.
I wish you could set what ISOs you'd like to be available in auto iso shooting on the fly. ala, 640, or 12800 and that's it.
haha, I was thinking about doing that at a wedding, during dance scenes, 12.8000 was just to bright for some of the lights, but i knew everything slightliy under that would be grainy as fuck... but I thought it would be just ridiculous to actually put on a nd filter :D but it actually makes sence
Haha as long as we get clean results I don't care if we are at 12800 😂 maybe we just tell them to turn the lights on
Great episode as always. Cool comparison Jason👊
So the recommended rage in low light is 640 to 3200
Then if more light needed bump upto direct 12800
So what's low light profile if iso range is doesn't matter Cine 4 is balanced without keeping mind iso range
Very insightful and informative. Awesome vid.
Very good in-depth review for those of us who appreciate detailed reviews. Thanks.
Kind of a flawed test later in the video. ISO does not mean the same between the picture profiles. You should base it off of the native isos. So choose someting like 5 1/3 stops above native iso. All of them will actually perform similarly when done properly. Gerald Undone has a great video on this.
this is very true, although if I am in a lighting situation in a wedding where I can't choose the light and tell the bride that I need them to turn more lights on I will choose the best setting I can with low noise. It's great to talk about specs but when I am on set I need to know the best setting for the light situation I am in
super clear explanation. iso for dummies 👏👏👏
i higly recommend that you try a pinhole lens.with such high iso,you can even freeze image at f/150
I'm confused should 12,800 be set for the minimum iso or the should that be the maximum iso ?
Slog requires different exposure. I.e 1.7 - 2 stops over. Exposing correctly for each pp makes a difference so this kind of negates all of your plan to make this even. You did not expose correctly for each setting.
However the duel ISO in the s3 is superb.
I'm afraid you will keep getting these comments about the base ISO being different from one picture profile to the next. The base ISO of 640 and the switchover at 12,800 only applies to Slog 3. Gerald undone tested and listed all the base ISO and switch over ISO for all the other picture profiles. Thanks for the work here. Just missing that crucial detail. You can screenshot all those values from Gerald's video.
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
The "dual native ISO" step is 4 stops over the base ISO in whatever picture profile (not including the extended ISO range).. Check out Philip Bloom's video on this
Then I have tested predominantly dual circuits. It is mainly about the second circuit at 12800. Wording on native ISO may be incorrect in my usage
I just did some tests in slog 3 and the results at 12800 w a fixed aperture yet changing the shutter for exposure (+2 stops btw) are ridiculously amazing looking. the noise isn't the same 1200-10000, it even gives a nice filmic grain while shooting at 12800. the noise outside of 640 is terrible at any ISO. I wonder why
Yeah outside of 640 is ugly, like horizontal lines of muddy video noise. It's SHOCKING that SO MANY of those blind A7S3 raving reviewers (Matt ugly-beard-brain/ Gerald/ DPreview) NEVER mention this obvious handicap - such obvious biased AF idiots!
Wouldn't a more accurate comparison be with ISO stops? Philip bloom did a test showing the switch over is different depending on the lowest native ISO, its not the ISO value , it's in the stops. I shoot weddings as well, it would be nice doing the test in some difficult situations! Thanks for the testing!
Probably in other tests. This was just to test 3 different iso levels all equal just for curiosity haha. I tried to be as accurate as possible just to test picture profiles at the same ISO levels even though I know S L9g requires added exposure
crazy to know now that its more beneficial to shoot at 12K iso than 5K
Insane low light
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema not insane, on 12k iso just automatically denoiser( i am disappointed about low light capabilities (((
Can you help me understand..
If im shooting at 640 iso in slog3 and the m.m is -1 or 0.1 for example and im at F4 or even f2.8 and im still abit dark in frame… do i push up to iso 1000 or 3000 or go right to 12800 ?
Thanks
@@DotAndDab if its only that much just a stop or two of iso increase would be no issue at all, iso only starts getting noisy around 3-5K and up with that camera and switches to second native at 12K
@@LawsonCross thank you for answering… im learning and hoping to get some class results with my camara
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
what do you mean by unnatural skin tones at 12k? do you mean, washed out color, or something? thanks
thanks for doing this test video, Jason.
Would it be possible for you to do the same for the A7III to investigate whether it has a dual ISO as well?
I tested my Sony ZV-e1 on ISO today and the best result was 160 ISO. At 640 ISO the image became very noisy. Yes, when I set 12800 after 10000, the native ISO is very strongly felt , there is very little noise. Since on Sony ZV-e1 the sensor is like on a7s3, on the first camera the first native ISO (640) showed itself very badly, everything was tested on Slog3. I concluded that if there is enough light, if there is no need to raise the ISO, it is better not to switch to the first native (640), but to leave the lowest value (160), what do you think about this?
Maybe Sony ZV-e1 has only one native iso 12800 ?
No no no no. It all depends on the log profile being used. For slog3 the 640 iso is the lowest possible one und thus equal to iso 80 or 100 without log.
In slog3 below 640 iso every iso is underlined. That's because it digitaly under exposes as if you go less than 80 iso. So never ever go below the base iso on log profiles.
I believe the switchover has been changed to 4.33EV above base ISO in production cameras, vs 4.66EV in pre-production units. The A7S and A7SII had similar switchovers at 4.33EV, but the base ISO in S-log were different.
Sounds technical! I believe you haha. The numbers are a little much for my brain 😅 thank you for sharing that Binnu Babu
Not 100% sure about it being dual native ISO like everyone's saying, as this has been the case with SLOG3 since the A7s2. You can find older forums describing a similar thing nofilmschool.com/boards/questions/seriously-how-do-you-get-rid-noise-slog-3-sony-a7s-ii
To me it just sounds like the noise reduction Sony does generally perhaps doesn't work as effectively on certain ISO ranges in Slog picture profiles? Not sure
Great info
Dude. Nice work. I have fx3. I find it’s noisier than a7iii
Hi from China! Very interesting findings indeed, looks like I’ll be skipping ISO 6400
Old film student me wants to reject this lol
It's crazy to think on a $5000 camera, you need to put on an ND at night to get usable footage from Slog3. This simply wasn't an issue on the a7sii and a bad oversight during development, stopping me from buying the camera :/
2023 update... I have this camera 😬
Good stuff
dude did u workout and shot this video? hahaha...great information btw!
So how high above 640 can you go before 12800 is better?
This has been my experience with the a7siii as well. It gets really grainy between 3200 and 10000 iso
Hey Jas, hope you're doing well!
I'm wondering if this applies similar to the a6400 and the other aps-c Sony cameras?
Is there another higher ISO number that you can hit on the a6400 that cleans right up?
Nope. The only APS-C sensor with a dual native ISO is Fuji's X-Trans. It's at 640 and 2000 for F-log in Fuji.
Sony a6400 has a very slight switch in photo mode at 400ISO but that applies to raw files only and I doubt you'll see it in videos.
India 🇮🇳 love your videos
Legend Shahid. Thank you
Grain at 3200 with the sony a7siii?? Im goin to cancel my order aftet this video. My A7RIII have a clean shoot at 4000 iso. I don't get it
I find that the comparison with the same exposure is not entirely correct. With SLog 3, I can overlay more at ISO 5000 than with Cine 2. I've tried that and then can't find that the image is more noisy. Or am I wrong?
Hmmm not sure why that would be. My results are as is. No variance in light. Just a a picture profile change and no post processing
Does the Dual Native ISO work without any Picture Profile? I filmed some test shots at 12,800 and 16,000 ISO with no PP and noticed there was barely any grain in the shot so it seems like it does, just wanted other opinions.
You could be right with that. I never use no picture profile so that is never an option for me.
I agree
Those biceps are distracting, man :D
Does anyone know if this works for A7iv as well
Would love to have that camera, stock with my Canon 60d😅 too expensive here in the Philippines 😂
Oh no! Nothing wrong with the 60D. Still a great camera
do you film only on standard profile in siii and how was the iso ?
I film in HLG usually. I prefer that picture profile the most with my colour grading
Norway 😊🇧🇻
Legend Roger! Thanks for commenting
It ain't grain dude, it's video noise pattern
why you didn't show the slog 2?
s-log 3 is optimised on the a7siii
hello bro i am from india gujrat my a7s3 camera shoot in grains and noice video and no clear video pls support me pls help i am wedding video grapher village leval pls suggetion seting camera
nd1000
Might actually make use of an ND 1000 😂😂
It's ok, its true. But look how this guy talking 14 minutes like some bot or marketer and begging for attention, damn... I'm watching first 2 minutes, ok, I know everything. He talked this shit 5 times more, and repeat another 10 times - I rewind for 8 minutes later and he keep repeating same thing! I hate youtubers