"AUDIOPHILES ARE SNOBS (with money to burn)"
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2022
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Audiophile: "I was listening to these speakers..."
Music lover: "I was listening to this song..."
My uncle once bought a bespoke Orvis bamboo fly fishing pole. All the other guys in wading boots in the river had shit eating grins on their faces when they saw my uncles bespoke pole. No one was jealous. No one said his expensive pole wouldn't catch anymore fish than their much cheaper fiberglass poles. They all shared the joy. Why can't audio be like that.
I went into a local hifi store for the first time the other day. I recently became an audiophile. I happen to know that when I walk in that they might think low about me. I have tattoos all over my face. I’m a local rapper and make plenty of money to afford my lifestyle. The only cool guy was an old man that didn’t care what I looked like. He helped me out. I spent $30,000 that day. And the other guys who gave me dirty looks as I walked in now came up to me and introduce themselves to me. It’s crazy that people judge u on your appearance. Now the old guy calls me when they get new stuff in.
Above all, we can view ourselves as very lucky being able to pay attention to nice things like good music playback while too many in our world are busy thinking about much more basic stuff like how to feed their kids Tommorow
I hate the audiophile snobbery, thats why i refuse to associate myself with the term.
I interviewed with a brick and mortar store years ago . It was to manage the store , and when I asked him about improving walk in traffic he said “ those are not my customers” and proceeded to tell me how much money his well healed clients spend on equipment. I never went back
There are a few stores I avoid because they told me, "Unless youre here to drop $X0,000 or more I won't setup a demo for you."
@@HiFiTurtle I would have responded that I indeed intended to drop at least 10 grand. But just now I changed my mind after his disrespectful remarks.
To be… fair. He had this beautiful little high end shop tucked away in a secluded section of businesses, it was cool but I said something to the effect of “ have you ever thought about moving to a location people can see and improve walk in traffic ( he was basing salary off sales). Then he went off. A few years later he moved the place to a street view location. Exactly what I asked him about doing.
I had spent four grand with him a few years before. I was a customer that was told I wasn’t his customer. I liked his employees.
I have another guy now with a high end shop who is a great guy. Even though I can’t afford his stuff ( Magico and Octave among others) he invites me to come hang out all the time . There are good ones.
Hey Doug, not sure if your the same account. But did you buy the ls35a soundartists a year or 2 back? If so, are you still enjoying these? Thinking of picking a pair up you see?
More tolerance. Everywhere. Always.
Couldn‘t agree more. It all comes down to: Be more polite.
Once I walked into a Magnolia audio and asked for a standard #14 copper speaker cable. They did not have it and suggested another cable of the same gauge but 10x price. I requested the same price, knowing how much it really cost to the manufacturer and that the profit margin was healthy enough. They hesitated ... and then a manager came out and told me that they sell luxury items to people who can afford it, and if I were not one of them, this store was not for me. I laughed, walked out, and drove 5min to a pro audio shop.
I have a very beautiful experience to share with all of you. In my previous job, I had a colleague who was also interested in this hobby. He told me about this incident and I still think about it. When he was in high school he went into a Bose showroom and was checking out headphones and speakers and was approached by a salesperson. Salesperson could sense that my friend wasn’t there to buy anything but was eager to try out gear and salesperson took friend to the section where all the expensive stuff was kept. My friend clearly told him that he can’t afford it and he is not looking to buy anything and the salesperson said that’s not an issue at all, he can still try out whatever he wants and maybe he can’t afford it today but in future he will earn more and would be able to afford it.
I don’t know about others, but I was genuinely touched by this.
If you are not overbusy it's the sensible thing to do. Exposing someone to the best stuff has the chance to create a desire to work towards getting that stuff, and even if you don't buy from that store keeping people in the game bumps up the whole industry.
Won’t be an issue come October in the UK as most of us will be spending our disposable income on energy bills. The snobs will become the ones who have their lights switched on 😂
Well as long as I can power up my CHORD DAVE and his compatriots I’ll survive a bleak winter with a musical hi fidelity accompaniment.
Go buy an expensive Marantz amp that’s sure to keep that warm feeling for winter😂
🤣
From what I've seen on You Tube most audiophiles are of an age where their hearing audio response is 5KHz to 7KHz. They espouse how wonderful their systems are whilst sitting in a room that has more echoes than a church. Crazy, bored rich people with nothing else to do. I bought some Jensen SPX9 tower speakers for $700, I used a 'Welcome To The Monkey House' CD by The Dandy Warhols to test the speakers in the HiFi shop. I asked the saleman if I could listen to some $23000 speakers he had set up there and he said sure. I played my CD. I looked at the salesman and said 'to be honest I'm not hearing $22300 worth of difference'. We both laughed.
Out of maybe 50 or 100 people I interact with regularly I am the only one with any stereo equipment. Mine is all used and inexpensive, but the vast majority of people think their cell phone speaker or tv speakers are all they need. Any HIFI gear is a luxury.
Wow John. I wasn’t expecting that. But I agree 100%. I am a audiophile and have spent 20yrs building up my perfect hifi setup. However, even then it’s just a modest setup (Marantz streamer/ cd and amp, project turntable, 607 S2s, Atacama furniture and QED interconnects and speaker cable) but I am happy with that. As a music fan I can play my 1991 Genesis We Can’t Dance cd in (to my ears) pure sonic nirvana. I love it that the sound is so clear and beautiful- but the songs and cd are still the same when I played it as a 13 year old kid on my Sony ghetto blaster (still the same cd). So yeah, I am now looking to upgrade my CD player to the CD60 when time (and the wife allows on the joint account). It might be next week or in 3 years but it doesn’t;t matter, I will own it one day. And yes, the 1st song I will play on it will be Driving the last spike. Cheers mate- these videos are inspirational to me.
I can think of a much better Genesis track to play, but that's my Genesis snobbery coming out. 😁
Well said. But I almost crashed the Bentley listening to that;)
I am not worried, my driver is reliable.
The most underrated comment
A Bentley, your an idiot to pay that much. Any £10 car will get you from A to B... Just not a Bus ticket the poor buy, because they, for some reason get you from D to F
Nice to have a spare.
What you need is a Morris Minor; you'll get a good example for less than a monkey. Bentley's just a Volkswagen and we all know who started that...
John, this was one of my favorite videos you’ve put out. Not only does this apply to this community, but so many communities I’m active in. Thanks you!
I never let price, people or brands reflect what I enjoy or don't enjoy, what sounds good to me and what doesn't. I have been lucky enough to be able to try so many components in my journey to make my own conclusions that price doesn't matter all that much if it makes you happy. That's coming from someone who had 40k wrapped up in my main system, but enjoys a desktop system in my office that costs less than $900 just as much if not more.
This broadcast resonated with me, as I was on the receiving end of such snobbery when I was a young (but pretty well versed) audiophile.
It was the year of The River, the year of Boy - it was 1980: I was living in San Clemente California with my lovely young ex-wife. I was a 23 year old unrepentant hippie and already a committed audiophile. I had been befriended by the US. importer of QLN loudspeakers - Michael ... - whom I met through a colleague of hers (the bastard who poached her). Michael proceeded to blow our minds with some exquisite gear of the time (e.g. Win Labs turntable and strain gauge cartridge, EAR Preamp/phono stage, Mark Levinson amps, etc.). He also imported Opus 3, so the recordings available to me were astonishing. Plus, he was an excellent cook and had awesome weed…
Michael took me under his wing, helping me to build a very nice system for very modest money. It began, of course, with a pair of QLN Model 1’s. He recommended that I replace the Sure V15 Mk III phono cartridge I’d mounted on my Marantz 6300 turntable with a Promethean Green (a modified Grado). He also acquired for me - at manufacturers accommodation - an NAD 7020. Cabling by Monster.
I began devouring Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. It was like cocaine.
Soon enough I got the upgrade itch, beginning with a profound lust for a Sumo The Nine Amplifier (which I loved but eventually tired of repairing…) and, to the point, a new turntable. My constant reading directed me to two finalists that I could barely afford; the Linn Sondeck and the SOTA Sapphire. I phoned all the ‘stereo stores’ in my county searching for these prizes, finding one which carried the Linn and another the SOTA.
Hav... and Har... of Huntington Beach (long gone) carried the Linn and was my first stop, as I was leaning toward it. I was greeted with some suspicion as I walked in the door with my long hair, Levis and Yes T-shirt, but the button-downed salesman seemed to relax a bit spotting my stack of Opus 3’s. I described my system and told him that I was there to listen to the Sondek/Ittok deck through something comparable. Sniff. Of coarse they had nothing quite so modest, but would allow me to audition it through the system in which it was installed.
I got through one side of the Opus 3 Test Record - Depth of Image and was shut down. The Linn sounded fine and I was very interested, but I had some questions regarding it’s famously finicky setup and sometimes iffy oil-pump bearing. The salesman quickly became irritated with me, and interrupted me saying “if you don’t like it, but something else”. Exactly; whatever I do buy, it won’t be from him.
Next weekend I visited Absolute Audio of Laguna Beach to hear the SOTA. Two 30 - something guys were hanging out listening to some cool tunes as I entered - the owners. I described my mission and my system, and they happily re-arranged their setup to approximate my own.
I don’t remember the electronics, but the speakers were Rogers LS3/5 A’s and the object of my desire was set up with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm and Koetsu Black (!) cartridge. The sound was awesome! Similar in balance to my own system but with much greater resolution, although the dynamic range was limited. We listened and talked for a couple of hours. I explained this was a financial stretch for me and that I’d like to take a week to think about it and consult my wife. I asked if it would be OK for me to bring my QLN’s up to compare to the Roger’s. They were eager to hear them. Through the week we had a couple of phone conversations. I needed to get the price down. I would continue to use my Promethean cartridge for a while. They had Syrinx LE1 arm that would save me just enough to enable my purchase!
Early that Saturday, July 23th, 1983, I arrived with the QLN’s. I helped with the setup, trying to get it close to what I was doing at home. It didn’t take long and we fired it up. The sound was glorious - definitely better than the previous weekend even with the lesser arm. We swapped back in the Rogers, and discovered that they were clearly inferior to the QLN’s. We were delighted! Back to the QLN’s, we listened well into the afternoon. I wrote the check, we packed up the SOTA and loaded them into my car (along with the QLN’s) and after my giving them Michael’s contact info I headed home eager to set things up.
Since Absolute Audio also had an excellent stock of records, I dropped by there often until they closed.
I still use that SOTA regularly. When the Syrinx arm failed (turns out it’s bearings were infamous for irreparably sticking - although I tried) I bought a ZETA Van den Hul from them.
The arrogance, disrespect, and even contempt on the part of one ‘high-end’ audio dealership cost them not just one highly profitable sale, but also the loyalty of a happy satisfied customer. Neither did I keep my experience there to myself. My group of audiophile friends, numbering 7 at the time, also avoided Hav... and Har.... None of them ever bought a Linn.
Conversely, Absolute Audio welcomed me as a new friend and loyal customer ‘til the end.
Martin 's HI -Fi, Kings Lynn , early 90's. All the staff used to entertain me despite my inability to afford the beautiful sounding kit in there.
The owner used to phone me when trade ins came about, I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for rhat .
I find most of my friends that like music but listen to it on "crap" equipment, usually like it in the background as they entertain or do whatever around the house. Few of them sit down to spend time just listening to the music with the music being center of their attention. I do that for hours each week....good topic John.
This is indeed an important factor. Most people listen to music while doing something else. In this case, I would not pour a lot of money into a stereo set.
John, that's such a good video. It makes me want to share a story. I rented a warehouse-style apartment in Amsterdam with a phenomenal audio system. I wanted to create a similar system in my London home. I went to a specialist store near Tottenham Court Rd, where I was told that the system I was listening to was £75k (we're talking 1999 money), so I set a budget limit of £25k. Then I told the salesman that I am deaf in my left ear (I have fancy hearing aids to correct it), and he said "I'm not selling you £25k of audio kit. You would be wasting your money. Go to B&O and spend £8k. Far better for you" So I did. I still have the BeoLab speakers which I use in my Sonos system. I wish I knew the guy's name - he clearly wasn't an audiophile snob!
I've happily bought two pieces of vintage Nakamichi equipment at reasonable prices. If I had the space, I'd love some giant Infinity speakers. Do it for yourself. IF you can hear the difference, it's worth it.
A breath of fresh air just blew through the Audiophile community. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Your position on matters like this, is in large part what makes me a loyal subscriber.
John, Very very well said.
In addition to audio, I also love collecting art, pottery, cookware, gardening, travel, et al. So I buy good, not best hifi once, never upgrade unless repair can’t be done and allocate my other money to my other aforementioned hobbies. And I enjoy everything.
I wouldn't dare knock anyone for what they choose to buy or where they are in life. Who am I? We are all in different stages of life and we must live accordingly. I like Ferrari, I like Volkswagen. As the saying goes, if you like it I love it! Neighbor and I were in hail storm. I complained about damage to my truck, he complained about damage to his BMW. He said, imagine how I feel? I thought, no worse than I do! That is a SNOB. Darko this video is about WAY more than audio equipment. Thank you very much!
i agree. To me it starts with this idea of what an "audiophile" is. I believe its simply someone who cares about the way their music sounds There may be all kinds of subsets underneath this big umbrella, which often get argued about, but plain and simple, rich or poor, open baffle versus sealed, beryillium versus silk dome, vinyl vs digital lets all just embrace our love of music and our systems that work best for each of us.
One of the great joys in recent years has been helping non audiophile friends buy their audio systems and discovering how good affordable sound has become in the last 10 years especially with speakers and DACs. And then watching their journey towards to better sound as they upgrade or tune their systems. Seeing other people enjoying music is the reward.
I have experienced hifi snobbery so many times in my life that now the thought of walking into a hifi store makes my skin crawl. I live in New York City and there are still a few hifi stores here but they don't want me to walk in and that's fine with me. Another thing is that these stores don't stock products, they don't invest in inventory. When you're dealing with salespeople who work on commission what do you expect? I saw a youtube video made by an expensive audio products dealer in Canada and the salesperson in the video said that if you love music you must spend tens of thousands of dollars on hifi gear. How about if you love music spend your money on concert and recital tickets? Travel to another country to check out a famous opera house or other venue.
Hifi gear gives you the option to use repeated times with countless pieces of music.
As long as there is an audible difference noticeable in a blind test I have no problems with expensive gear. You get what you pay for. I do draw the line at all these magic contraptions with no objectively measurable difference to the sound though.
I do think there's a contingent of people who are victims of the placebo effect of more expensive = better. I personally think these people perceive a different in the unreasonably expensive "high end" equipment because it makes them feel better
I’m lucky enough to earn well but I’ve got three kids… I could spend a lot more on audio equipment but every purchase must be carefully considered.
That’s why channels like yours are important, John. You cater for all levels.
Remember all, toxicity is not confined to the audio communities; it’s in football, video gaming, films, photography etc etc. Sometimes I find the internet incredibly exhausting and excluding.
Great video.
Brilliant video, I find in person most people at shows are nice. It's on the internet is where people are intolerant. Your channel is one of the best and you bringing this up just proves it.
This is why I buy equipment that makes me happy and at the same time I don't share my choices with "friends". I don't care what they might think. Typically I don't exceed the point of significant diminishing returns to avoid those large over blown price tags. No worries, that way I'm always happy with my stuff. Thanks for your videos.
Over blown price tags seem to be the normal for gear now. By inflation over 40 years of 4.2 x but in hi-fi terms it is 10x or even more. e.g. Roger LS3/5A where 189GBP in Jan 1981, second hand now around 750-1200GBP but new at 2750GBP . A lot more "highly expensive" equipment and hundreds of times more low end and budget hi-fi gear. The choice is available but the places to go to hear it fewer and rarely have more then one of your short list to review.
Yes Steve it's all about your personal satisfaction that counts, after all its your hard earned money. We all have our own budgets and finding that sweet spot of diminishing returns, that I consider affordable is for me where its at !
Hi John, this maybe the most important and valuable video I have watched on your channel. And I think I barely missed any. Thank you for this!
Necessary words, well said. Thank you...
I really loved this video. So many communities suffer these same attitudes. Cars, watches, tools, etc. I’m 47 and don’t need validation. I know what I like, I know what I can afford. It’s not crazy stuff either. I guarantee that my system gets me to 98% of what anyone can get with money being no object. There is something to being happy with what you have. It probably doesn’t hurt that I have a fantastically beautiful wife and children that gives me much needed perspective.
1000% agree.. maybe your best video ever
Your comments are equally applicable to other hobbies involving technology. Unfortunately, my hobbies are synthesisers and associated recording studio equipment, photography and Hi-Fi which often means I don't have enough disposable income to go round all three, or I prioritise one or two over the other(s). I've not even mentioned bills or family commitments and partner's expectations. Inverted snobs and snobs are everywhere, in all hobby communities. For those who can afford high ticket items, go fill your boots, for those who cannot I wish you luck in finding appropriate alternatives. There are many routes to happiness and enjoyment. Nice video Darko Audio.
Such a good message. Live and let live.
Yes I've experienced both.
Especially when it comes to my turntable.
I own a Technics SL-1200G.
Some people look down on it and say that it's just a cheap mediocre turntable, because they own some 15k boutique turntable.
While others say I'm crazy for spending 4k on a turntable, because they own some 500 bucks Hanpin turntable.
Whatever you buy, there's always someone there to tell you it's the wrong thing.
However, I do believe that there's some bottom and top "threshold"...
Where too cheap means there have been cut too many corners by the manufacturer to meet that low price point.
And too expensive means it's mostly paying for looks or brand name.
But the vast majority of products is somewhere in between and those are just a matter of preference.
Those products vary all the way from just cheap up to just expensive.
I stopped using my local audiophile shop for a similar reason, I wanted a new turntable and I was very interested in the Kuzma turntable I found out that my local store was going to have them in so I gave him my card telling him that I wanted one. I waited and I was never invited to the listening session I thought they would want as many customers as possible for a over two grand turntable but then someone said I was not the customer they wanted. This attitude has followed me around lots of stores as I would book a session arrive and sometimes there is an issue with the equipment and they have to cancel I believe that it could be genuine but It happens too often, Book and Cover has its issue I now will buy online.
In the UK the average customer of audiophile equipment takes months to decide so the sales staff are always polite and can see when a customer is serious and careful in their choices. Many have customers coming back for 50 years and telling their friends just to call in and see/hear for themselves.
The audio shop is the loser and you are the winner !
A couple of words missing from your talk- ENVY and SATISFACTION. That human trait of envy is inside all of us- we can envy those who are better looking than us who are richer, more talented etc- that plays a major role in how we perceive our world. Satisfaction is also important- are you happy and satisfied with what you have? FOMO grips many folks too. When I was younger I always fell into the trap whenever I bought something I was already planning that items replacement/upgrade. Learning to be satisfied with what we have is vital for our physical and mental health not to mention our relationships with others. The other man's grass is always greener- but what we don't realise is that sometimes that man is about to disappear down a sinkhole that's just under the surface!
Possibly the most insightful and relevant video you have posted John. As an older (65 years old) UK hi-fi enthusiast I stopped going to Hi-Fi shows a long time ago because of snobbery I encountered there. In more recent years I have noticed some quite extreme versions of both the kinds of snobbery you refer to online. A shame, but it hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for both the gear and the music. In the face of the nonsense you see and hear all you can do is keep trundling on.
I think inverted snobbery is quite often a form of jealousy. About tolerance and respect I have a little story for you. About a year ago I sold our table and chairs second hand for € 150 ( do not worry it was not to fund another hifi purchase : we just bought a new table and chairs 😏) The guy who finally bought it saw my hifi set in our living room and asked me if it was a lyngdorf. I immediately knew this guy knew something about hifi so we started talking. When I asked him what speakers he had, he first did not want to tell me because he was afraid of the reaction he would get. I told him I was not that kind of person so he told me. Turns out he had speakers worth more than € 100 K driven by heavy passlabs monoblocks ! So you clearly see where he had his priorities: clearly not on furniture 😎. But I respected his point of view and he respected mine ( my set is € 5K btw).
To come back on inverted snobbery : it is also quite often a form of not accepting that hobbies can be very different. I see quite a lot of people spending ridiculous money on their car and that is fine by me if that makes them happy. But when you tell them you spend € 5K on your hifi they look at you and you can see in their face they’re thinking : are you serious??? Bloody hell I am …
This is absolutely superb. I enjoy watching all of your UA-cam videos, but this is one of the best I have ever seen on all of those I have watched on any subject. You have summarised this subject so eloquently, and thank you for putting it out there for everyone to consider. 👍😁👍
I decided a while back that I no longer care what others think of my hifi, and that I would go on to simply enjoy it. I'm happy for those who can spend more, and cheer those on who might spend less to one day achieve their dreams. This has freed me up to just enjoy the music, and it's been a liberating experience. I wish the same for others.
And when a comment is removed, I have to wonder how sincere this really is!
Finally someone called out both sides. “Those 10 grand speakers are way overpriced, you can get better for less than half that!” Oh, so you’ve heard them? No, but…
And you have them in every price class, the ones that claim that 1000 dollar speakers is a waist of money, you can have the same quality for 200 dollars.
The audiophile perceived value comes 100% from money, as it’s a consumer Hobby, contrary to Productive hobbies for example playing music where the value comes from skill.
The snobbery is certainly degrees of separation. Back when hi-fi stores were more prevalent, one could find the stores that carried the mid-range equipment and then there was that one store that the high-end stuff where you didn't so much casually browse but just stare at.
I had a few roommates in college and we would hobby shop the hi-fi stores for fun. A few of us had hand-me-down equipment from our parents ( I might have had the only functional reel-to-reel player on campus where I made hours-long mix tapes for parties). It wasn't until I traded in for used high-end gear that I began to see the gradations as hobbyists and dedicated music listeners turned into purists in search of the perfect set-up. In my circle of friends, it was more about finding great tracks that took advantage of the setup you had.
Today, it can be more about status signaling that you're "more serious" with your separate components vs. the guy with a mid-ranged home theater receiver on $600 speakers who just enjoys listening to music. I don't begrudge the person who drops $5K on a turntable but I will question them if they're just spending to show they can without understanding why.
You nailed it, Johnny. To add, these are all symptoms of the ego. I spent X amount of money, therefore, I made the right decision, anyone that's spent more or less doesn't know what they're doing. Just find a system that YOU love to listen to, and forget about what others are doing.
Great video, great words, great man!
Cheers!
I think most of us buy what is in our budget and we all have various budgets. Your comment on hobbies is so true. The internet is a place where so many people just want to be negative and intolerant all of the time one way or the other. It will be a better place if we all do as discussed in this video. Be nice and tolerant.
Some of the choices people go with are just a puzzle. Sure there is a budget and they and their family have to live with it but they then pick the clearly mis-matched components that whilst fine just have to be given other things to work with. One of the big reasons I prefer active speakers - it take the problem of matching amplifier to speakers out of the equation and are cheaper for similar quality.
Most of the equipment I have heard have good parts and not so good parts. Comparing them it is more often that what you get is different but hard to define it as clearly better.
Totally agree. One of the nice things in hifi is that the research and development in the top end kit usually filters down to the modest levels that I buy at - but that top end work wouldn’t happen without some folks being interested in buying that kit.
Well said John. I can remember as a teenager in Melbourne getting a train into the city and visiting hi fi stores in the 70's and being somewhat ignored by some staff because I was looking to buy a very cheap audio gear , with limited funds . I learned very quickly that those that showed a genuine interest in me as a customer and my needs without demonstrating their superiority will get my hard earned money.
Well said and at the end of the day, it's about enjoying the hobby and the music, irrespective of one's budget.
I never really understood people criticising how other people spend their own money. 27 years ago I spent over £5.5K on a HiFi system (Meridian). I spent about a year saving, researching and listing to demos. When I made up my mind and plunged ahead with the purchase. All my friends and family thought I was totally crazy as I knew nothing about HiFi, and still don’t. By listening, using your own ears and not a magazines, you can decide for yourself what sounds better to you. No question. If if doesn’t sound good (to you) then don’t buy it, simple. Why spend £1K when something else for £500 sounds as good or even better. Try not to be swayed by brands.
Anyway, 27 years later. I still have the same system today. I listen to it everyday and host about 4-5 very loud parties each year. The only upgrade being a Bluesound Node 2i to add streaming and multi room capabilities. The reason why I spent so much was I wanted two things. Clarity and power. It’s very difficult to find power cheaply. Most systems harden and are fatiguing when you crank up the volume. Something I always hear at parties and I didn’t want that. The point is, this is one of the best purchases I ever made other than my home and in my view, money well spent because I love music and have never felt the need to constantly upgrade because I was satisfied with my original purchase and my dealer was very good. My family and friends by the way have probably spent the same money, if not more over the same years changing their systems that are nowhere near and just don’t last. Don’t worry about snobs or inverted snobs just do you.
A lot of people will spend lots of money on other things without a thought.
I admire your posts even more now. You have said that which needed to be said. I've always been about Peace, Love and Understanding (cheers Elvis Costello) and am an eternal scruff bag, simply because I don't care about clothes, cars and many other aspirational things that others do. I care about high quality and exciting audio reproduction and then save to buy, always paying cash. When younger and starting out I didn't have 2 pennies to rub together above my day to day expenses, then when I became interested in hifi I was subjected to the snobbery highlighted here. Fortunately for me I have a secret weapon, I have high level/functioning autism, meaning that I am totally impervious to this kind of attitude and have no emotional responses when i notice it. Consequently I can go on a 'World Tour' of audio dealerships, listen to what I want, say which equipment I like,or not, listen to punk music at auditions etc etc without being de-focussed on music and sound. My local dealer understands me and lets me get on with it all as they know about my attention to detail etc, even emailing me when they have gear set up and a free slot just to let me listen. Autism, you see has advantages.
Great content here. Over the yrs i have met many people who own inexpensive hifi but are actually very wealthy. They live in big houses & have high paying jobs. These people feel that a good & well setup mid tier system is good enough for the enjoyment of music
Just remember to respect eachother and should you not understand.. start by asking questions instead of telling… be open to one another
Great video👍
When I was just starting to get into audio, I'll never forget a salesman who sneered at my choice of music. I wasn't worthy, and he refused to give me a demo of a high-end stereo system.
Gabber?
Same happened to me a few times---I don't listen to eclectic jazz when auditioning speakers, I like other types of music. And when I request to hear other artists, etc....I get 'the look'
@@robertbosson5223 I had to look that up! 🤣
WELL SAID!! 👍👍
I've experienced both.... Snobbery from hifi shop owners, and inverse snobbery from friends and family, and found myself thinking that I have to justify my values to both sets of people....
I'm happy with my choices and my own skin - the skin of a rather boring middle aged man, desperately trying to fill the void of my disappearing "youth" by filling it with wonderful music! 😂🤷♂️😂
A while back I noticed some kids at the beach listening to music on one of their phones. The sound was tinny and distorted but in thinking that I felt snobbish. I was saddened to think how far I’ve drifted from being able to appreciate a song for the strength of the song alone.
This has existed forever.
Cars
Watches
Cameras
Jewelry
After years of living in NYC I moved to California and have started going to local Cars & Coffee get togethers. It’s surprising, or perhaps not really surprising, how the Ferrari or McClaren or Paganini owners all hang with each other. I enjoy talking to the folks who show up in a very nice Volkswagen GTI, for example, and looking at all the beautiful cars, as opposed to hanging out with the folks with the super expensive cars who don’t bother to circulate and enjoy the other cars around them.
Great topic John, thanks for bringing this topic up in the channel.
Brilliant talk / sermon - thank you.
I used to own a musical instrument store in Sydney and we occasionally came into contact with a variation of the inverted snob - the perennially aggrieved. The world was out to get them and every business was trying to “rip them off”. It doesn’t help that there are real rip offs out there, often perpetrated by so-called pillars of society. (Did you follow the Australian royal commission into banking?) But my experience in both the hi-fi and musical instrument industries is that most participants are not there to get rich. They are motivated foremost by a love of music and/or technology. There are far less risky ways to make serious money.
Such a great video! 👊
Dear John, this is a trully philosophical question and it can be applied on every aspect of our lives. We should think about it more often and thank you for your gentle reminder.
Well done--thought through, calm, and cogent. Thank you.
im a store owner and if had that condersending attitude toward my new entry level customers id never see any new business . Please remember we all started at the bottom and i remember working all summer just to but a new piece of HiFi . But i agree that certain customers have Snobby Attitudes" espically when they get together they all start getting their willys out and saying my WILLY is BIGGER than yours its inevitable ! I try had show customers how good older used items perform and what great value they are compaired to the entry point items you can buy that leave me cold
I'm into birding. My binocular is more expensive than my hifi system ☺️
Is that legal.
I thought a lot of producer forums were full of it. Then I bought a Prism Sound converter. I nearly cried when I closed my eyes and just listened to Lo-Fi hip hop from UA-cam. It was a level of clearness I had never experienced. That was with UA-cam compression too. Everyone has a price. Just do what is practical to your budget and needs. No need to judge other peoples choices. Give advice if you’re asked. But no one wants to be preached to. Great videos btw.
Well said!
Sad but true.
Thank you .
I didnt think I would agree with you, but I do. Having pursued a passion for music and film for the last 40 years, I am well aware that some people can afford and choose to spend crazy sums on arguably questionable things. But if they can and it makes them happy, who am I to challenge. I sit on the middle enough spare income to add or swap equipment out now and then, but not enough to excite dealers as a 'good' customer. I usually buy second hand any way - Not sure what that makes me !
Audiophile snobbery is like driving on the interstate (motorway.) Everyone driving slower than you doesn't know what they're doing and everyone driving faster than you is a lunatic. Substitute "spending less" for "driving slower" and "spending more" for "driving faster" and and there you have it. 😄
Very nicely done!
Thanks John. As long as it doesn’t harm you or your loved ones…..live and let live in all aspects of live….
It is not only a Hifi Problem…
Absolutely right. Guns, cars, boats, watches etc.
It's the "poors" vs the "high ends" 🤣🤣
Hi John, I've always wanted to own a so called high end set up like the Chord Dave and a pair of Meze Elite but can't afford them but I have no problem with those that can. We all have our budgets and choices to make so let's all be tolerant of the choices people make at either end and enjoy the music and the gear whatever the price point.
So realistic analysis ! Thank you for publishing it 🥰
What happen to me here in Berlin, Germany, was that the owner of a hi-fi store (elektrowelt24 deutschland) was so rude, on whole new level to me, as a newcomer into hi-fi world.
I ordered Q-Acoustic 3050i which cost around 800e and part of the speaker box was dented, slightly damaged. It wasn't terrible, but it was near the driver, on the front. I reported that, requesting a new shipment, but then the owner was so pissed on me, that he said "this is so tiny, you cannot expect to buy such cheap speakers and to demand them to be perfect. This is not a Ferrari."
Sorry that I expect NOT to receive damaged speakers, no matter how much they cost :/
Good to know.
I won’t be ordering there then.
Definitely avoid him despite seemingly decent offers. He's a proper prick with an unacceptable attitude for a salesman. Another one of his "shticks" is to regularly advertise speakers for decent prices as directly available and in-stock on his website that really aren't. After you've ordered the desired pair of speakers he messages you to inform you the pair is no longer available unfortunately. The status of the out of stock speakers never changes however. Ever. He then tries to upsell you a "newer, better (and always more expensive)" pair instead.. If there is anything wrong with the order (shipping damage, issue at manufacturing, certainly things out of your reach) he tries to guilt-trip you for RMA or just talk down to you.
Excellent video and a great summary of a complex issue.
We love you, John, especially the people from the so-called third world. 🙋🏽♂ I just wanna listen to my favorite tracks loud & clear without mortgaging my house.
There are people out there that are happy to live in an empty apartment/flat, with only a single chair and massive expensive hifi. That's their choice and that's fine but I'd rather have a comfortable bed and a good pair of shoes.
Thank you John for your eloquence and insight. Your thoughts are so very refreshing and I think airing them will bring you an even greater viewership than just talking about audio equipment. I’m a subscriber and delight in tuning in to hear your thoughts.
Great video and I agree with you.
All the shops I’ve been to with this kind of attitude, when I was 16-18 years old, are out of business.
At that age my friends and I were potential audiophiles. We saved and had money to spend. And instead of making us enthusiastic about listing to music, they looked down on us.
A few years ago I started to listing seriously to music again. I bought all my gear secondhand, not because I can’t afford new gear, but because I still don’t like to enter a audio shop and don’t want to deal with them.
Online the inverted snobs are indeed very much present in the (audio) community.
It made me stop going to online forums etc.
I enjoy my music at home and watch some UA-camrs, like you. 👍🏼
Best video ever. You deserve to be the leader on UA-cam with 245k subscribers. Your advice is great too, helped me a lot with my little acquisitions.
😎 I personally cannot tolerate intolerance….
It had to be said and you said it!
Bravo ! and Thank You for Your Support .
Best! Thanks John 🙏
I was visiting a shop from out of town and while the proprietor of the store was kind enough to quickly show me the products they had for a minute or 2 and talk to me, he was not interested in allowing me to audition any of the gear, despite me being the only shopper in the store at the time. I couldn't help but feel a bit put off by it, especially when they asked me to at least buy a record before I left for their time. I did end up buying a record although it felt out of obligation and was just awkward for me. At the end of it all I don't know if I would want to do business with that shop again after an experience like that. I did express interest in some very expensive gear but I think he took one look at me and assumed I was not able to afford it... which ended up being the wrong assumption by him.
I had a similar experience. A high end shop owner was reasonably happy to talk to me for a while but subtley made it clear that he didn't want me to audition anything. Worse than that, he wanted me to put a £1000 deposit down to audition something, because he didn't have it in stock and would have to order it for me...
It can be helpful to bring a single vinyl reference level record into any hi end store, and they're all snobs, no question or argument from me, but bringing along a record, even if you're into digital only, is like a "pass badge", it seems to work for me and seems to be gateway toward gaining some instant respect from the "snobs" that want your money.
At first I thought "well, this is stereotypes, not really true" and then remembered at least 3 situations like you've described from my relatively short audiophile journey yet. And oh my how true is that! I felt ashamed buying my first pair of bookshelf speakers - elac debut 6.2, even though they were amazing and I had such a great introduction into audio! But this experience made buy things second hand or online, because of how biased and snobby audio dealers were around me.
Damn, this really got me fired up 😅
Thanks for giving insight of not only others but my self as well.
You are always a class act.
wealth gained by honest means and not flaunted to make other people seem less somehow is not a bad thing.
Very cool attitude, well articulated moreso you can tell it comes from a genuine place. Love it.
I completely agree with you, John Darko. I can't stand that kind of intolerance. Or any kind of intolerance really. It actually makes me sick. We need to be much more tolerant.
Spot on 👍✌️
Bravo
Very well said and applies to almost all hobbies.
Well said. I fully agree! Such videos are more educative for the audience than just another product review. Keep up the great work.