Don't just nod your empty head and agree, and slap your knee and say golly, take the time to try things out yourself. Doing is the best teacher. Toolify: ua-cam.com/users/rockynine11 You can help support the work I do in making these videos: Plans for sale: www.ibuildit.ca/plans.html Support this channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=865843&ty=h Did you know I have other UA-cam channels? My main channel: ua-cam.com/users/jpheisz More videos on my second woodworking channel: ua-cam.com/users/IBuildIt My home reno channel: ua-cam.com/users/IBuildItHome Website: www.ibuildit.ca/ Facebook: facebook.com/I-Build-It-258048014240900/ Instagram: instagram.com/i_build_it.ca/
I Build It Scrap Bin The older I get the more I like people who take their time getting to the point. My dad takes his time. When I was younger (aka stupider), it pissed me off. The older and wiser I get, the more I cherish a well told story.
laanyan your response made me think of a quote, it's attributed to mark twain but I don't know for sure, anyway, it's "When I was fourteen I couldn't believe how stupid my father was. When I was twenty one I couldn't believe how much my father had learned in seven years."
Random User A civil question? You really are a douche bag aren't you? Now I'm just asking a civil question, so are you just going to tell me you are or you're not? You know you're question was assholish so Fucking off. And I wasn't talking to you or about you when I tried to seem smart by looking up a quote that seemed to fit what the other guy said so fuck off again, fucker.
my favorite quote from Mark Twain is "Never argue with stupid people because you lower yourself to their level and are sure to loose because of inexperience"
I'm a 40 year carpenter and stair builder so I use a table say a LOT. What you said is correct. I was taught back in high school shop, and it's remained with me all these years, that the blade should only be 1/4" above stock for 3 main reasons. 1) Safety, If you should touch the blade, 1/4" will cut, but not amputate. 2) Kick back is greatly reduced. But always be on guard for twisted or wet wood. 3) At 1/4" above stock, the blade can still cut on the downward angle (which is how it's made to cut) rather than "against" the blade. Keep on preaching Padre!
This channel is quickly becoming my favorite. The random content is fun and interesting and shows a lot more of your personality John. (I also appreciate the no bullshit stance on this channel)
listening to you brings me back 35 years. Everything you just said in reference to blade height, push sticks and a properly set up saw was taught to me by my shop teacher. He had all ten of his fingers as well and built houses in the summer months. If you look at my table saw you will see a push stick almost identical to yours, it was Mr. Webster's pattern that I use to this very day. Thank you for your videos and sharing your experiences.
John, you are correct! Early in my career as an Industrial Arts teacher, my college professor told us in class there are 3 reasons to set the blade correctly at 1/8 to 3/16th above your stock. 1. It is safer that if something happens it only will cut you that much. 2. The more blade teeth touching the stock, the better and cleaner it will cut. 3. There is less tendency of kickbacks. This information is still the same today as it was in early 70’s when I attended class. John, keep up the great work and excellent videos. No matter how old I am, I still learn something when viewing your videos……… Thank You for sharing your time…
I really value and like your videos, John. Especially the "raw" ones. I've just started on some projects for my house and having little experience in woodworking, your videos are a goldmine of little bits of useful information - so thank you. I think that people should take more time to listen to what people with experience are saying and like you said, go and try it for themselves. When I was doing my apprenticeship in machining, I was blessed with some fantastic mentors who had hundreds of years of experience between them. I found the best thing was to listen to what they said and ask "stupid" questions to understand why things are done in a certain way. But I found that taking that knowledge and trying it for myself (making a lot of mistakes along they way) I've learnt loads more. Constructive criticism is also very useful as well, although I have a hard time with not taking it too personally sometimes.
The reason I stopped going to extreme lengths to get all the dust off before finishing is because I tried it both ways and it didn't make a bit of difference in the results.
John, Ive been watching your videos for over a year now, your my fav. youtube guy by the way, but Ive learned a Lot about running a tablesaw just from watching you. I feel safer and way more confident with my saw and Enjoy using it now.lol. You have helped me out a lot!
I am a retired contractor and like you have used a table saw many hours. I agree with you on blade height . I had an accident while using a table saw and I can say unequivocally a low blade height saved my thumb.A few stitches is a lot better than no thumb which would surely have been the case if the blade had been higher. Keep up the good work!
I have found that kickback happens when the wood is somehow pressed onto the side of the blade, especially on the rear section of the blade. Having the blade lower exposes less surface area on the side of the blade, making kickback less likely. As for push sticks, Craftsman used to sell a push stick with a handle shaped like a hand saw. It is not sold anymore, but you can google it and make one similar. It was called the Craftsman Table Saw Guide Master
I admire your patience. It surprises me how you are willing to elaborate to people who think they know better. I think it is a waste of energy. I am almost 59 years old and I have been using all kind of tools since high school. Usually I know what I am talking about when I feel the need to open my mouth. Unfortunately, some people are just too stubborn to accept good advice.
you are correct about the fence being parallel to the blade. I have only had kickback when the fence was out of line. I really feel the blade height should be just above the surface. I also highly recommend a thin kerf blade with carbide tips such as the Freud blades....
I still remember my college shop teacher telling us to only raise the blade as high out of the wood as we were comfortable trimming off our fingers! Haha. I agree with your logic John. I'm liking these new style videos. 👍🏻🔥
Another good video, John. I think most people with their own table saw play around with different saw heights and learn right away that blade height makes no difference in how hard you have to push the stock. It's also pretty simple to figure out that more blade showing above the stock equals a deeper cut into your hand if you slip. So, yes, I absolutely agree with you on this.
Wait, do I nod respectfully or not take things at face value? I'm so confused... ;-) But it's true I like being in the ten fingers club. Totally agree about the sharp blade being the key. Never noticed anything with blade height.
Your videos are always great and I am enjoying very much. These are informative and help many to learn new woodworking techniques. We want to see you for years to come.
I have this argument with someone I work with constantly. I agree with what you've said. But on a side note, if the blade is higher it also heats the blade up more, which results the blade going blunter quicker.
Long-time woodworker here. Thanks for this. You are correct. Also, it's dangerous to have the blade that high. Even if it did take a second longer (which it doesn't), wouldn't that be worth the added safety?
my experience with the table saw is to adjust the blade to just about half of a blade tooth above the material at top dead center to help keep dust down and ensure a more precise and clean cut.
I don't know why people would take issue with you. I think everyone has their own ideas and practices. My only discovery is that I NEVER push anything through my saw NOW without using a push stick! Ever. I did that once and cut the end of my thumb off and believe me that is not the way to find out a push stick of some kind is best! One of my most valuable tools is the Gripper. I love it enough I bought two of them and I use them all the time. Thank you for your videos!
I was lucky enough to see m Dad run the saw blade through one of his fingers. Had eleven fingers for a bit until the ER put him back together again. I love push sticks. He went back to his shop after the pain stoped, but bet your butt he was a lot more careful after that experience.
Thanks for these videos. I did not grow up using a tablesaw, therefore they scared the bejesus out of me. Videos like these, that explain how problems happen and possible solution are very helpful. In my advanced years, I now have a tablesaw and have built new cabinet doors and drawers. While I respect your input, I still have a functioning brain and will modify my technics to what I feel is safe using what you and others have taught me.
I was taught by a coach builder cabinet maker from Ireland and he uses a saw in exactly the same manner you do. I always have considered it the safest way to work. never thought of doing it any differently for the simple reason. The less blade I can see the less that can cut me. Good even downward pressure is as important as the pressure through the blade. This needs to match the safe cutting speed off the saw.
I've been watching your tutorials and I'm convinced that they are thee most informative I've seen to date plus I want to support my fellow Canadian slash Torontonians to do so WELL DONE ALWAYS WATCHING
I’ve seen people advocate for both. The only argument I heard for higher blade height that makes sense is from the Forrest rep where he says they recommend higher blade height to keep the blade temperature lower for longer life and less time between sharpening. I generally don’t worry about blade height unless I need to have my hand within 6” of the blade in which case I keep my blade just above the gussets and use push tools appropriate to the cut.
John, My opinion is you shouldn't worry about people criticizing your work or your habits. To each his own. You make beautiful stuff and are very skilled so kudos for that!
I have a woodworking/timberframing friend with 20 years experience and he told me he was trained in school that when ripping big solid lumber (on these massive dedicated rip saws), to set the blade as high as possible, then lower the blade guard (mounted on boom arm) around the blade that sticks up. Set the fence back short so it ends before halfway and use a long push stick to push it through the last bit. He's experienced one kickback with a huge board but wasn't injured since he stood to the side, the heavy built blade guard held in place and the board went straight backwards. Had he not stood to the side he would likely have been severely injured. But I've seen others say to keep the blade as low as possible. So there are definite schools of thought on this and perhaps the type of equipment used matters in what is trained. I know for my own personal cabinet style saw I prefer to keep the blade as low as possible.
Hi John, if you have an Watt meter you could tell how much load the motor is taking to cut the wood. I'd be curious if there was any significant difference with a blade height change. I have always assumed that reducing the blade put more load on the motor but that is was worth the reduction in risk. Maybe the effort to push the wood through the cut depends mostly on how sharp the blade is? May have to try experimenting on my own. Thanks for sharing!
that's a very common type of push stick, when I went to cabinet makers school they were getting the students to make that style of push stick because one has more control on shorter stock so it doesn't lift from the back
Cutting in the raised blade position is assinine. The best blade manufacturers spec 1.5 carbide segment lengths above the work. This allows the tooth segment to be in clear air for a period and cool, and keeps your entrance and exit angles to the work as shallow as possible reducing chipout. We run 14" and 16" blades on sliders and have no way of incorporating ZCI's on sliders. Keeping the blade as low as possible leaves a flawless, glue line rip, chip free, no ZCI every time. If I saw an employee running a table saw blade that far above the work, they'd be pushing a broom for a good long period of time.
That looked scary cutting with the blade that high. Not going to say I have never done it but I don't anymore. Very nice video! Keep up the great work.
Blade height - one of the least discussed elements in table saw safety videos. Keep it just enough to cut the wood as you describe. Use a rip blade (or combo but rip is best) for rip cuts and use sharp quality blades. Seeing your second cut was actually scary! Great video! Thanks
The physical difference with High blade and low blade, aside from the lost finger/hand problem, is that the higher blade is more likely to LIFT the distal end of the board. This in and of itself, can and will, cause more backward force and twisting. The longer along the board you can have a push stick, the less likely this can happen as you are able to hold that leading end of a board down. This is not a reason or an excuse to raise the blade up high. Also, if you have a crappy, non-zero clearance, insert it will help prevent some of the tear-out on the bottom side of the board, whatever the cause might be... dull blade, gunked up blade, more downward of a stoke/cut to that part of the board. Species relative..
John, you have forgotten more than most people know about tools and woodworking, I enjoy your videos. They are very creative and you skills are awesome. tj
I had an accident with a table saw about 3 weeks ago and thankfully i kept all my fingers. The blade followed the bone and left me with quite a bad gash. But im okay now. Lesson learned
learning to "read" wood is important when cutting. grain type, moisture content, etc. will affect ripping on a table saw. I can look at a piece of lumber and have a good idea the internal stresses that are within the lumber.
I, too, prefer to keep the blade height minimal, just enough to clear the gullets. But Forrest makes blades, and they produced a video for marketing which I saw once at Woodcraft, and it said that you should raise the blade as high as possible to reduce heat build-up.
I've found that the longer the stick is that contacts the surface of the piece you are cutting the better the control is. both for pressure down and towards the fence. I don't use a riving knife for many reasons and have found that the most important thing to use when cutting on a table saw is your head. The first and most important rule is always be aware of the relationship between your hand and the blade, the second is blade height set as low as possible. I'm 61 and have been using power tools for almost 40 years and thank God and my awareness I still have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs.
I am with you. In my machine shop classes at Daley Jr Collage I tell my students if we meet you in the further show me your hands. If all ten fingers are there I did MY job.
I totally agree, the blade only a .25" above the wood is way safer and how I was taught. I finally have set up a shop for myself at my house, mostly with Craigslist finds. I got a late 1960s Powermatic contractor style table saw. I replaced the belt and bearings in the arbor. Brand new Frued 40T combo blade. I tuned it all up and made sure the blade was parallel with the miter slot and fence is also. it is within .002" . It has the original 1.5hp motor on it. 20amp circuit. I began to cut 4/4, jointed, birch with the blade about a .25" out of the wood. The cuts take forever....constantly bogging the motor way down to stopping, but no burn marks and no binding. Even a sheet of .25" hardboard stops the blade. One day, I raise the blade all the way out of the table to cut a 3" laminated birch table leg blank I glued up. I fully expected that cut to take an hour. I sliced through it like a hot knife through butter. No loss of blade speed at all. I have been cutting now everything with the raised blade with no issue to performance...however, obvious issues with safety. Little info on this issue on web, not related to a poorly set up saw. Any thoughts on this so I can get back to cutting at safe heights? Thanks!
Hi John... I am still a novel amateur woodworker but with enough brains to know that a raised blade increases chances of touching it on a kick back event or at any other split second one loses focus. So ... a hidden blade is added security in my personal book. And anyways ... as I see it ... your approach is that you are sharing your experiences ... NOT issuing dogmas ... really don't understand all these people that get so fired up ... debate is usually how progress is made ... as it is challenging "good old practices" ... Keep up the VERY good work !!!
Great video, John. I made a video a while back showing a technique and people will just argue with you because they believe it to be wrong but won't try it for themselves to see. That's what we do when we make videos. We show what works best for us, not the best or the only way to do things.
John, Thanks for the video. it reminded me of the anecdote below. A few months ago I had to rip 100 2x6s to make 200 1x6s. Having that many boards to cut, I tried several different methods. I timed doing a few boards each way, until I finally settled on 4 passes per board on the tablesaw and 18 tpi blade. It could be done on my bandsaw or with a higher tpi blade or fewer passes. The two fastest methods were 2 and 4 passes on the 18 tpi blade. 4 passes to my surprise was faster and easier. Easier because each pass only had to cut 1.5 (or so) inches rather than 3. This meant I could also push the board through faster for each pass, enough faster that it was still faster even with the blade height adjustment.
Add another variable. Lower HP motors on a table saw, in my experience, seem to have a tougher time ripping lumber when the blade protrudes less from the top of the wood. I can only guess why but perhaps it's the number of teeth engaged in the cut and the efficiency of sawdust removal.
I agree with you John. I have been a professional woodworker for 30 years and sill have all ten. The more blade exposed, the greater risk for injury. Setting the blade higher than necessary has no effect on force required to feed the wood as the RPM of te blade is still constant. I did like your comment of your sister catching you and black mailing you for a summer. I did the same. At 13yrs old I wanted to buy a table saw. My mother said no, thinking it was too dangerous. I talked her into letting me buy a Skill saw, and thinking it was safer, she said yes. I used the Skill saw to make my first table saw.
I forget where I saw it but I once heard the question of how much blade is supposed to be exposed above the work piece. The answer given was how much blade do you wish to be cut with. But if you notice, the higher the blade setting the closer the spinning blade is to the hand hold on the push stick. I keep my blades low and after 40 years I can still count to ten without having to take off a shoe or unzip my pants.
I agree with all that you say and I am 68 and been using tools since a kid also, but last week the table saw got me. I was reaching for the offcut to rip another strip just like you in the video ( freeze at 4:55 )and caught my thumb on the top of the blade. I can only think that for some reason my thumb was pointing down at that time and usually it is pointed elsewhere because I don't recall doing anything differently. My thumb is healing and I think that I will use a two push stick policy in future.
I like to set my blade just enough to make the cut, the way I figure it if something happens their is less blade to bite into flesh, a 1/4 inch of blade verses 2-4 inch of blade sticking out from the stock. I also noticed debris and dust tend to not fly around as dramatically.
John. Having the blade raised should if anything increase the resistance since the wood has a bigger area of the blade that it can rub against. Also a smaller part of the periphery of the blade is actually cuttting the wood if it's all the way up. Only reason why anyone would keep it all the way up all the time is laziness. Very good video subject.
John, I've been watching your videos for years...And enjoy your "2cents worth". I've never felt the need to try and piss you off with abrasive comments, if my own "style" is a bit different....Which brings me to my point, that likely there are those who are pounding their chests as experts solely to get under your skin...... Ignore them or send them packing....
John, I agree with you 100% I am a carpenter/contractor who is about to retire. The blade up high is simply dangerous, period. I like your original push stick and I think I got my design for the push stick from Norm and Tommy Silva on This Old House. Keep putting your experience into the videos. Marty
You are spot on John. As I'm sure you well know, what matters is how many teeth are engaged in the wood at a time. It's very obvious when ripping with an underpowered saw where a 40T blade might struggle but a 24T blade will have no trouble at all. The tooth design helps too.
That's the wrong way! Put the blade full up because it's designed to go up there so it's obviously intended to be used that way. Don't faff around with a push stick because you lose control. Wear very loose clothing to protect your skin from dangerous sawdust. Working when stressed is dangerous, relax! Have a beer. Use your left hand to push the wood in because your right is for holding your beer. Long hours of standing can cause fatigue, but roller skates help you move around the shop quickly and promote good posture.. Look after your back! Do all woodworking lying down to reduce stress. Being cold makes your fingers numb, don't loose control, start a fire indoors to stay warm. Keep your windows closed so theres no nasty draft. Protect your hearing! Table saws can reach upwards of 100dB. Playing loud music or starting a few small engines inside will block out those nasty saw decibels. Protect your eyes! Look away from your work at all times so nothing can get into them. Now you have mastered personal safety, thanks random internet person.
Mid forties now, vocational school carpentry for high school shop class, still have not touched a moving blade myself either, really don't want to, but should that bald moment or weird slip occur and I meet Mr. Very Sharp Blade, I want a 1/32" deep scar as compared to missing parts from having the blade that high (for the ones who think it cuts easier). Common sense goes a long way.
Many years ago I had a major accident on my table saw. I had bought the blade up through a piece of ply attempting to cut a given length marked but pencil. The cut was short at my end, so using two push sticks each 10” long I attempted to bring the ply back to my end (idiotic thing to do) and cut the 2” uncut section. Yep major grab/kickback and I followed the left push stick all the way to the blade. It happened in an instant. Major plastic reconstructive surgery was required and lengthy rehab. Fortunately I recovered full use of my left hand which looks odd with bent fingers. Had the blade been higher than the 1/8 above the workpiece I would have lost four fingers in the blink of an eye. No matter what I am cutting, the just above the workpiece rule is sacrosanct in my humble garage. Once bitten always cautious. Never say it cannot happen you. It did.
I used to be under the impression that having the blade up high would help keep the board straighter as I passed it through. If almost 10 inches of the piece was in contact with the blade, surely it would be easier to keep the board straight and flush against the fence, thus making a straighter cut. Kind of like cutting a straight line with a jig saw vs a circular saw. After getting a proper quality table saw and learning how to properly push with a push stick, I never have the blade exposed more than 1/8th inch.
Hi John, I have subscribed to your channel for a long time and this is the first time I have seen your video, (20.51) Scotland time. That little push guide you use, I have been using for the last 5-6 years. Where the difference in ours are mine doesn't have a red sticker on it. Regarding defending your self (quite a lot) as you say it is the way you have kept all your fingers all these years. I am 62 and I have got all of mine and I think the main reason is my way works for me. If anyone thinks it is dangerous well don't do it, but don't whine on about other people using it. They lose a finger not wanting to take advise, repeat advise, Fuck em. ( in good old fashioned Glasgow language.
I have to agree with John, for safety reasons alone you should adjust the blade height with as little blade showing above your wood to keep your hands safe.
First cut on an 8" Craftsman when Dad wasn't home, I was 7, now 59, long stints of no use as I work as a programmer though :-) Your regular push stick is great, best I've ever used, tried that longer one from the last video, feels awkward and clumsy, liked your saw height demo, have gotten so used to keeping the blade low, never thought to compare, glare to know that low and safer is not a compromise to cut quality, hmmmmm. I always wanted a riving knife, but didn't know that they don't completely prevent kick back. Now I guess I can live without it since with your fence upgrade, no way I replace my old baby.
Thanks for a better explanation. I think a lot of the "constructive' comments or criticism comes from that in Europe we have been subjected to a lot of "Health & Safety" laws introduced by the EU. I know that a lot of people in the Uk refer to H&S as Hysterics and Stupidity. I think it is important that people understand the dynamics of saw blades including things like rake angles. When I went to work in the woodwork department of a secondary school ensuring a safe working environment was priority and that included dust extraction fitted to the crown guard. I remember people sawing up old Iroko worktops from the old science lab benches using blunt circular saw blades and watching timber lift off the saw bed. It's nice to see you keep your workshop clean and tidy. I remember watching a guy called Norm Abraham on sky TV showing how he cut mortices and tenons on a circular saw using a spacial Jig for his saw table. He always mentioned things relating to health and safety saying that your fingers are the most important things you own. The fist thing I did when I worked in a school as a technician was to have all the saw blades sharpened. I also made sure the dust extraction worked so the workshop was not full of wood dust like Iroko which as you know is carcinogenic. It might be nice to show people the issues of bad working practice in some of your videos. Thank you for your informative video.
The only reason I can think of in favour of a high blade height is that the teeth meet the wood at a more perpendicular angle, pulling the wood down onto the table surface a bit harder. But for me that's not worth the risk of something slipping and me having to change my name to One Thumb. It's why I also use the blade guard; I like to keep my fingers as far away and shielded from sharp spinning objects as I can. :)
Mr. Heisz, I have a table saw with no extension wings. It's a vintage, belt driven 10" Craftsman. I am going to purchase your plan for a fence upgrade but I was hoping there was/is a fix to my problem. I've looked online for wings for that saw but can't find any. Do they have to be metal? I see in some of your videos you have extended the extensions...can that be done straight from the tabletop? Thanks
two words Blade guard!!! any how, fully raised blade means the back of the blade is following a more vertical path as it exits the table, increasing the possibility that your workpiece or offcut will be raised off the surface of the table and out of your control. love your videos.
Rip blades come in so many configurations. AOA. Angle of attack is primary importance. Style of blade also matters. Triple chip. Alternating bevel. Degree of bevel. So on and so on. Many things come into play. U can't blanket a type of cut across the board and expect same results. I have Freud pro rip blades that rip a 2x4 waaaay faster if the blade is set so that the leading tooth runs parallel to the surface of the board being cut. That usually puts the blade about 2" above the piece.
I haven't tried back to back like that but when I first got started I was told to raise the blade to about a 1/4" over the thickness of whatever I was cutting so I usually did that. Sometimes the blade would be higher than necessary from cutting something thicker earlier and I would be too lazy to lower it. I never noticed anything different other than my fingers were slightly closer to the blade.
I am nodding my head (which is far from being empty) because, after 35 years of being a professional carpenter and spending much of my time in front of various types of saws cutting nearly every stick and sheet that went into all those houses, I still have ten full length digits. It was only after I retired that I scuffed a thumb on a table saw. What a rush!! You would have fit right in on one of our crews. All the best, -- Joe
Hi, thanks for the video. I enjoy your channel. I usually keep the blade around 1/4 inch or so above the wood, but sometimes I do raise the blade up higher - when I'm cross cutting plywood or cutting melamine, to reduce tear out/chip out. And the higher the blade, the better the result - in my experience. The rationale for this is that the teeth are contacting the wood at a steeper angle, which produces less tear out. At least that's what I've been telling myself for years! I don't remember ever hearing someone tell me to raise the blade up to increase the cut speed, so that was news to me. Doesn't seem to make much sense, like you said. I also sometimes raise the blade up to stop thin pieces of wood, little mouldings etc from chattering (and chipping) as I rip them. Which does help, although I wouldn't claim it's as safe as keeping the blade lower. What's your experience been? Thanks. I've been working with table saws for about 20 years and thankfully, I haven't hurt my fingers either.
Thank you for this video. It helped me with my first cut with my new Ryobi today. The one thing that was strange. I was cutting a 2x5 just like you (making a replacement spindle for my porch). When I first started (with the blade all the way up) I began pushing the 2x4 and about 12 inches through a 36 inch cut, it felt like the 2x4 was being pushed straight back towards me. I got a little scared and shut the saw off. I then started it back up and continued my cut and it went through without any issue, but that was strange....
Another briliant sermon from father John from his podeum, been of the same age but far less experience in the use of the table saw i find his methods very usefull and can relate to his practicies when i am at my table saw, but like said everyone has their own ways and we are all free to follow whichever path we chose.
The comments about raising the blade well above are probably correct. Less of the blade would be engaged reducing the kickback force, also the force would be in a more downward direction. That downward force creates more table friction that explain why they don't feel different. The likelihood of kickback should be less though. So when cutting long pieces where your hands down get near the blade, and binding is more likely, having the blade high is probably safer. Assuming you are cutting all the way through in one pass.
i love to watch your videos i watch all of your channels love everything you do.... i am always amazed that people make comments to you like they do same hear with me been working around a table saw 40 year + and i learned the same way you did from my dad when i was a kid and from my shop teacher same thing i just scratch my head when i hear stuff like that crazy to me ... i cant even be comfortable when the blade is sticking up that far above the wood... but i have watch allot of people do crazy things when working with a table saw.
The only time I find having the blade fully extended has any advantage is when cutting very thin stock. Having the teeth impart in a more downward motion helps keep the thin stock on the table and control vibration / chatter. By the way, I'm a riving knife / guard in place kinda guy. Keep on posting, alway enjoy your vids.
Geez, John! Right on. Purchase a 20 year old Sears table saw in the early 70's. Been using it ever since, a lot. Didn't come with a riving knife, don't know if ever had one. Until I started watching youtube I never realized how dangerous it was. Nope, over 40 years of use and I have never had a kick back. What am I to do? Ha!
I cut a lot of melamine faced board Ave always have the blade as high as possible, I find I get a much cleaner cut (on the top face at least) as the teeth of the blade are cutting almost perpendicular to the board at the cut contact point.
I've cut tons (literally) of melamine and never with the blade higher than normal and always with clean results. A sharp blade and a well aligned fence make a big difference and in my opinion, no ultra clean cut is worth the extra risk from a higher blade.
I have found I do get better results with a high blade height and slower feed when cutting plywood or melamine. I also found that cutting just shy of the surface and creeping up on the break-through makes a clean cut too... and feels safer to me.
I'm a professional carpenter and I've been using a table saw as many years as you, we about the same age and I also started very young. The work I do, doesn't rewuire a table saw everyday, but I use one often. When you cut that 2x4 with the blade way up, a shiver ran down my spine, ... Why? Because that situation can get ugly quick. The odds of something bad happening double IMO , just from having that blade up too high. Your table saw technique, is the best I've seen on UA-cam. 😉
One of the many things that need to be considered when cutting wood is the direction of cut. When ripping, the blade needs to chop its' way through parallel grain. When crosscutting, the blade should cut the fibers cleanly. You didn't mention what kind of blade you were using. It is my opinion that information is probably as important as anything that you did talk about. I normally like your videos, but this one left me wanting. Keep them coming. Like I said, I normally like what you have to say.
The type of blade makes very little difference, actually. Guys with little experience get hung up on the blade type and give it way more importance than it really has. Basics: more teeth, a finer, slower cut. Less teeth, a faster, rougher cut. So, instead of focusing on the unimportant and using that as a point of criticism, take the message of this video as it is and use that to make your experience using a table saw a better one.
The purpose of setting the blade height based on the material thickness is for safety, not speed. The more blade exposed above the material, the closer it is to your hands.
Heya John, I love your videos man! Keep em coming! I just wanted to chime in on the idea of blade height impacting the amount of force necessary to move the wood during cutting. I suspect the gentleman was thinking that when the blade is higher the cutting edge is making contact with the wood at a very steep angle, almost straight down into the table surface. When using a shallow blade depth it causes the teeth to make contact very near to the top of the blade at a much shallower angle, while the teeth are moving towards the operator as opposed to towards the table. It's not hard to see how one would expect to feel more resistance while the cut appears to push against the operator but with a sharp blade I can't for the life of me feel any additional resistance when using a shallow blade depth. I'll tell you one thing for certain tho- when using a higher blade height there is much more exposed surface area along the sides of the blade to potentially make contact with the wood along the cut line. In the event the wood begins to shift out of alignment while in the cut it's far more likely to bind and cause a kickback then if the same error had been made while the blade was it a shallower depth. Also cutting with the blade much higher that extra surface area along the sides of the blade increases the potential for friction and raises the likelihood of getting burns along the cut line. I've spent years cutting both ways and for what it's worth I couldn't agree with you more. Shallower depth increases operator safety and decreases tear out. That's a win-win if you ask me.
Maybe you guys in Canada get better wood. You said you are cutting spruce. Here in Colorado O don't remember EVER seeing spruce at even the top rated lumber yards. Here we get air dried pine that lays on you're garage floor and twists overnight. when I'm ripping a 2X 8' long, instead of the 3 footer that you tasted, I have difficulty getting through it unless I'm using my 24 tooth rip blade. My combination has 60 teeth and can't get through it without serious heating. For little projects, you're right, the blade doesn't make a lot of difference, but for ripping 20 2X8's it definitely does. DW
I was told by a Freud Tech that Freud (Industrial) saw blades are designed to give you the best cut quality when the bottom of the gullets are set at about the top of the wood. They design the tooth geometry for an attack on the wood at that height. Raise the blade too high and lower cut quality. Get better results and be safer too. I will only raise the blade higher than that when a particular cutting task requires it.
The higher the blade above the stock the more accumulation of resin on the side of the blade. This produces friction between blade and wood and will cause the blade to warp and mangle the wood. This is especially the case with a circular saw. As a carpenter of over 50 years, I can hear a circular saw set improperly from the next room. Good video
Shouldn't cut thin material with a fully raised blade on bigger higher HP saws or lighter material it can flick the timber up on the far side of the blade. Thus increasing the kickback risks.
I tried on saws at work and if the blade is down, you come to a knot and the wood starts to try and ride over the blade. That is with one inch stock though, if it is 2 inch stock on a 10 inch blade, it will make no difference. but don't listen to me, as any cut over 3 inches wide I don't use a push stick. Do what is safe for you, it's your fingers that you risk.
Don't just nod your empty head and agree, and slap your knee and say golly, take the time to try things out yourself. Doing is the best teacher.
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I Build It Scrap Bin The older I get the more I like people who take their time getting to the point. My dad takes his time. When I was younger (aka stupider), it pissed me off. The older and wiser I get, the more I cherish a well told story.
laanyan your response made me think of a quote, it's attributed to mark twain but I don't know for sure, anyway, it's "When I was fourteen I couldn't believe how stupid my father was. When I was twenty one I couldn't believe how much my father had learned in seven years."
Just did some cleaning up, folks, and tossed some garbage out on the curb.
Random User A civil question? You really are a douche bag aren't you? Now I'm just asking a civil question, so are you just going to tell me you are or you're not?
You know you're question was assholish so Fucking off. And I wasn't talking to you or about you when I tried to seem smart by looking up a quote that seemed to fit what the other guy said so fuck off again, fucker.
my favorite quote from Mark Twain is "Never argue with stupid people because you lower yourself to their level and are sure to loose because of inexperience"
I'm a 40 year carpenter and stair builder so I use a table say a LOT. What you said is correct. I was taught back in high school shop, and it's remained with me all these years, that the blade should only be 1/4" above stock for 3 main reasons. 1) Safety, If you should touch the blade, 1/4" will cut, but not amputate. 2) Kick back is greatly reduced. But always be on guard for twisted or wet wood. 3) At 1/4" above stock, the blade can still cut on the downward angle (which is how it's made to cut) rather than "against" the blade. Keep on preaching Padre!
Paul Allen ... hey Paul are you in Pickering?
No. Don't even know where that is. LOL.I'm in TX at the moment, but live in TN
Paul Allen do you like Huey Lewis and The News?
LOL!
The height that the teeth of the blade need to be above the wood depends on how much of your fingers you want to cut off.
The safest way I've found for blade height is to keep the blade 1/8" below the throat plate. It just doesn't cut very well ;)
Even that wouldn't satisfy some of the lunatics on here!
The only truly safe way to do anything is to get someone else to do it.
Unless they hit you for being useless.
LOVE your way of thinking! lol
😂
This channel is quickly becoming my favorite. The random content is fun and interesting and shows a lot more of your personality John. (I also appreciate the no bullshit stance on this channel)
listening to you brings me back 35 years. Everything you just said in reference to blade height, push sticks and a properly set up saw was taught to me by my shop teacher. He had all ten of his fingers as well and built houses in the summer months. If you look at my table saw you will see a push stick almost identical to yours, it was Mr. Webster's pattern that I use to this very day.
Thank you for your videos and sharing your experiences.
John, you are correct! Early in my career as an Industrial Arts teacher, my college professor told us in class there are 3 reasons to set the blade correctly at 1/8 to 3/16th above your stock. 1. It is safer that if something happens it only will cut you that much. 2. The more blade teeth touching the stock, the better and cleaner it will cut. 3. There is less tendency of kickbacks.
This information is still the same today as it was in early 70’s when I attended class. John, keep up the great work and excellent videos. No matter how old I am, I still learn something when viewing your videos……… Thank You for sharing your time…
I really value and like your videos, John. Especially the "raw" ones. I've just started on some projects for my house and having little experience in woodworking, your videos are a goldmine of little bits of useful information - so thank you.
I think that people should take more time to listen to what people with experience are saying and like you said, go and try it for themselves.
When I was doing my apprenticeship in machining, I was blessed with some fantastic mentors who had hundreds of years of experience between them. I found the best thing was to listen to what they said and ask "stupid" questions to understand why things are done in a certain way. But I found that taking that knowledge and trying it for myself (making a lot of mistakes along they way) I've learnt loads more. Constructive criticism is also very useful as well, although I have a hard time with not taking it too personally sometimes.
The reason I stopped going to extreme lengths to get all the dust off before finishing is because I tried it both ways and it didn't make a bit of difference in the results.
Nice video, brother. Happy to see another real carpenter who understands the tablesaw and still has all his fingers.
John, Ive been watching your videos for over a year now, your my fav. youtube guy by the way, but Ive learned a Lot about running a tablesaw just from watching you. I feel safer and way more confident with my saw and Enjoy using it now.lol. You have helped me out a lot!
Right on. The instructions that come with Freuds Diablo blades recommend that the carbide tooth just protrudes thru the wood. Super fine and safe cut.
Hahaha... the sticker! Thanks for the plug ;)
Anytime, Kriss :)
You're absolutely right about blade height. It's astounding that people would dispute this.
I am a retired contractor and like you have used a table saw many hours. I agree with you on blade height . I had an accident while using a table saw and I can say unequivocally a low blade height saved my thumb.A few stitches is a lot better than no thumb which would surely have been the case if the blade had been higher. Keep up the good work!
I have found that kickback happens when the wood is somehow pressed onto the side of the blade, especially on the rear section of the blade. Having the blade lower exposes less surface area on the side of the blade, making kickback less likely. As for push sticks, Craftsman used to sell a push stick with a handle shaped like a hand saw. It is not sold anymore, but you can google it and make one similar. It was called the Craftsman Table Saw Guide Master
I admire your patience. It surprises me how you are willing to elaborate to people who think they know better. I think it is a waste of energy. I am almost 59 years old and I have been using all kind of tools since high school. Usually I know what I am talking about when I feel the need to open my mouth. Unfortunately, some people are just too stubborn to accept good advice.
Watching the raised blade was actually a little scary lol
It scared me a lot ... I was hoping he would use a taller/longer push stick
you are correct about the fence being parallel to the blade. I have only had kickback when the fence was out of line. I really feel the blade height should be just above the surface. I also highly recommend a thin kerf blade with carbide tips such as the Freud blades....
I still remember my college shop teacher telling us to only raise the blade as high out of the wood as we were comfortable trimming off our fingers! Haha. I agree with your logic John. I'm liking these new style videos. 👍🏻🔥
Another good video, John. I think most people with their own table saw play around with different saw heights and learn right away that blade height makes no difference in how hard you have to push the stock. It's also pretty simple to figure out that more blade showing above the stock equals a deeper cut into your hand if you slip. So, yes, I absolutely agree with you on this.
Wait, do I nod respectfully or not take things at face value? I'm so confused... ;-)
But it's true I like being in the ten fingers club. Totally agree about the sharp blade being the key. Never noticed anything with blade height.
Your videos are always great and I am enjoying very much. These are informative and help many to learn new woodworking techniques. We want to see you for years to come.
I have this argument with someone I work with constantly. I agree with what you've said. But on a side note, if the blade is higher it also heats the blade up more, which results the blade going blunter quicker.
Long-time woodworker here. Thanks for this. You are correct. Also, it's dangerous to have the blade that high. Even if it did take a second longer (which it doesn't), wouldn't that be worth the added safety?
my experience with the table saw is to adjust the blade to just about half of a blade tooth above the material at top dead center to help keep dust down and ensure a more precise and clean cut.
I don't know why people would take issue with you. I think everyone has their own ideas and practices. My only discovery is that I NEVER push anything through my saw NOW without using a push stick! Ever. I did that once and cut the end of my thumb off and believe me that is not the way to find out a push stick of some kind is best! One of my most valuable tools is the Gripper. I love it enough I bought two of them and I use them all the time. Thank you for your videos!
I was lucky enough to see m Dad run the saw blade through one of his fingers. Had eleven fingers for a bit until the ER put him back together again. I love push sticks. He went back to his shop after the pain stoped, but bet your butt he was a lot more careful after that experience.
I just bought my 1st Table Saw this info is priceless and goes far above just reading the owners manual a great big Thanks to you
Thanks for these videos. I did not grow up using a tablesaw, therefore they scared the bejesus out of me. Videos like these, that explain how problems happen and possible solution are very helpful. In my advanced years, I now have a tablesaw and have built new cabinet doors and drawers. While I respect your input, I still have a functioning brain and will modify my technics to what I feel is safe using what you and others have taught me.
I was taught by a coach builder cabinet maker from Ireland and he uses a saw in exactly the same manner you do. I always have considered it the safest way to work. never thought of doing it any differently for the simple reason. The less blade I can see the less that can cut me. Good even downward pressure is as important as the pressure through the blade. This needs to match the safe cutting speed off the saw.
This might seem way off topic... What brand / Model saw is that? How dod you make & attach the surface extended areas? Thank you...
I've been watching your tutorials and I'm convinced that they are thee most informative I've seen to date plus I want to support my fellow Canadian slash Torontonians to do so WELL DONE ALWAYS WATCHING
I’ve seen people advocate for both. The only argument I heard for higher blade height that makes sense is from the Forrest rep where he says they recommend higher blade height to keep the blade temperature lower for longer life and less time between sharpening. I generally don’t worry about blade height unless I need to have my hand within 6” of the blade in which case I keep my blade just above the gussets and use push tools appropriate to the cut.
John, My opinion is you shouldn't worry about people criticizing your work or your habits. To each his own. You make beautiful stuff and are very skilled so kudos for that!
I have a woodworking/timberframing friend with 20 years experience and he told me he was trained in school that when ripping big solid lumber (on these massive dedicated rip saws), to set the blade as high as possible, then lower the blade guard (mounted on boom arm) around the blade that sticks up. Set the fence back short so it ends before halfway and use a long push stick to push it through the last bit.
He's experienced one kickback with a huge board but wasn't injured since he stood to the side, the heavy built blade guard held in place and the board went straight backwards. Had he not stood to the side he would likely have been severely injured.
But I've seen others say to keep the blade as low as possible. So there are definite schools of thought on this and perhaps the type of equipment used matters in what is trained. I know for my own personal cabinet style saw I prefer to keep the blade as low as possible.
Hi John, if you have an Watt meter you could tell how much load the motor is taking to cut the wood. I'd be curious if there was any significant difference with a blade height change. I have always assumed that reducing the blade put more load on the motor but that is was worth the reduction in risk. Maybe the effort to push the wood through the cut depends mostly on how sharp the blade is? May have to try experimenting on my own. Thanks for sharing!
that's a very common type of push stick, when I went to cabinet makers school they were getting the students to make that style of push stick because one has more control on shorter stock so it doesn't lift from the back
Cutting in the raised blade position is assinine. The best blade manufacturers spec 1.5 carbide segment lengths above the work. This allows the tooth segment to be in clear air for a period and cool, and keeps your entrance and exit angles to the work as shallow as possible reducing chipout. We run 14" and 16" blades on sliders and have no way of incorporating ZCI's on sliders. Keeping the blade as low as possible leaves a flawless, glue line rip, chip free, no ZCI every time. If I saw an employee running a table saw blade that far above the work, they'd be pushing a broom for a good long period of time.
That looked scary cutting with the blade that high. Not going to say I have never done it but I don't anymore. Very nice video! Keep up the great work.
Blade height - one of the least discussed elements in table saw safety videos. Keep it just enough to cut the wood as you describe. Use a rip blade (or combo but rip is best) for rip cuts and use sharp quality blades. Seeing your second cut was actually scary! Great video! Thanks
The physical difference with High blade and low blade, aside from the lost finger/hand problem, is that the higher blade is more likely to LIFT the distal end of the board. This in and of itself, can and will, cause more backward force and twisting. The longer along the board you can have a push stick, the less likely this can happen as you are able to hold that leading end of a board down. This is not a reason or an excuse to raise the blade up high. Also, if you have a crappy, non-zero clearance, insert it will help prevent some of the tear-out on the bottom side of the board, whatever the cause might be... dull blade, gunked up blade, more downward of a stoke/cut to that part of the board. Species relative..
You need a poster or something on that huge white wall there! Maybe a vast collection of pushsticks?
John, you have forgotten more than most people know about tools and woodworking, I enjoy your videos. They are very creative and you skills are awesome. tj
I had an accident with a table saw about 3 weeks ago and thankfully i kept all my fingers. The blade followed the bone and left me with quite a bad gash. But im okay now. Lesson learned
I just bought a dewalt jobsite table saw, had no idea how dangerous kickbacks are, almost afraid to even try using this thing.
learning to "read" wood is important when cutting. grain type, moisture content, etc. will affect ripping on a table saw. I can look at a piece of lumber and have a good idea the internal stresses that are within the lumber.
I, too, prefer to keep the blade height minimal, just enough to clear the gullets. But Forrest makes blades, and they produced a video for marketing which I saw once at Woodcraft, and it said that you should raise the blade as high as possible to reduce heat build-up.
I've found that the longer the stick is that contacts the surface of the piece you are cutting the better the control is. both for pressure down and towards the fence. I don't use a riving knife for many reasons and have found that the most important thing to use when cutting on a table saw is your head. The first and most important rule is always be aware of the relationship between your hand and the blade, the second is blade height set as low as possible. I'm 61 and have been using power tools for almost 40 years and thank God and my awareness I still have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs.
I am with you. In my machine shop classes at Daley Jr Collage I tell my students if we meet you in the further show me your hands. If all ten fingers are there I did MY job.
I totally agree, the blade only a .25" above the wood is way safer and how I was taught.
I finally have set up a shop for myself at my house, mostly with Craigslist finds. I got a late 1960s Powermatic contractor style table saw. I replaced the belt and bearings in the arbor. Brand new Frued 40T combo blade. I tuned it all up and made sure the blade was parallel with the miter slot and fence is also. it is within .002" . It has the original 1.5hp motor on it. 20amp circuit.
I began to cut 4/4, jointed, birch with the blade about a .25" out of the wood. The cuts take forever....constantly bogging the motor way down to stopping, but no burn marks and no binding. Even a sheet of .25" hardboard stops the blade. One day, I raise the blade all the way out of the table to cut a 3" laminated birch table leg blank I glued up. I fully expected that cut to take an hour. I sliced through it like a hot knife through butter. No loss of blade speed at all. I have been cutting now everything with the raised blade with no issue to performance...however, obvious issues with safety.
Little info on this issue on web, not related to a poorly set up saw.
Any thoughts on this so I can get back to cutting at safe heights?
Thanks!
Hi John... I am still a novel amateur woodworker but with enough brains to know that a raised blade increases chances of touching it on a kick back event or at any other split second one loses focus. So ... a hidden blade is added security in my personal book. And anyways ... as I see it ... your approach is that you are sharing your experiences ... NOT issuing dogmas ... really don't understand all these people that get so fired up ... debate is usually how progress is made ... as it is challenging "good old practices" ... Keep up the VERY good work !!!
Great video, John. I made a video a while back showing a technique and people will just argue with you because they believe it to be wrong but won't try it for themselves to see. That's what we do when we make videos. We show what works best for us, not the best or the only way to do things.
I've always done the "blade just above the material" procedure. I'll stick with it too.
John, Thanks for the video. it reminded me of the anecdote below.
A few months ago I had to rip 100 2x6s to make 200 1x6s. Having that many boards to cut, I tried several different methods. I timed doing a few boards each way, until I finally settled on 4 passes per board on the tablesaw and 18 tpi blade. It could be done on my bandsaw or with a higher tpi blade or fewer passes. The two fastest methods were 2 and 4 passes on the 18 tpi blade. 4 passes to my surprise was faster and easier. Easier because each pass only had to cut 1.5 (or so) inches rather than 3. This meant I could also push the board through faster for each pass, enough faster that it was still faster even with the blade height adjustment.
Add another variable. Lower HP motors on a table saw, in my experience, seem to have a tougher time ripping lumber when the blade protrudes less from the top of the wood. I can only guess why but perhaps it's the number of teeth engaged in the cut and the efficiency of sawdust removal.
I agree with you John. I have been a professional woodworker for 30 years and sill have all ten. The more blade exposed, the greater risk for injury. Setting the blade higher than necessary has no effect on force required to feed the wood as the RPM of te blade is still constant. I did like your comment of your sister catching you and black mailing you for a summer. I did the same. At 13yrs old I wanted to buy a table saw. My mother said no, thinking it was too dangerous. I talked her into letting me buy a Skill saw, and thinking it was safer, she said yes. I used the Skill saw to make my first table saw.
I forget where I saw it but I once heard the question of how much blade is supposed to be exposed above the work piece. The answer given was how much blade do you wish to be cut with. But if you notice, the higher the blade setting the closer the spinning blade is to the hand hold on the push stick. I keep my blades low and after 40 years I can still count to ten without having to take off a shoe or unzip my pants.
I agree with all that you say and I am 68 and been using tools since a kid also, but last week the table saw got me. I was reaching for the offcut to rip another strip just like you in the video ( freeze at 4:55 )and caught my thumb on the top of the blade. I can only think that for some reason my thumb was pointing down at that time and usually it is pointed elsewhere because I don't recall doing anything differently. My thumb is healing and I think that I will use a two push stick policy in future.
I like to set my blade just enough to make the cut, the way I figure it if something happens their is less blade to bite into flesh, a 1/4 inch of blade verses 2-4 inch of blade sticking out from the stock. I also noticed debris and dust tend to not fly around as dramatically.
John. Having the blade raised should if anything increase the resistance since the wood has a bigger area of the blade that it can rub against. Also a smaller part of the periphery of the blade is actually cuttting the wood if it's all the way up. Only reason why anyone would keep it all the way up all the time is laziness. Very good video subject.
John, I've been watching your videos for years...And enjoy your "2cents worth". I've never felt the need to try and piss you off with abrasive comments, if my own "style" is a bit different....Which brings me to my point, that likely there are those who are pounding their chests as experts solely to get under your skin...... Ignore them or send them packing....
What Tom said.
John, I agree with you 100% I am a carpenter/contractor who is about to retire. The blade up high is simply dangerous, period. I like your original push stick and I think I got my design for the push stick from Norm and Tommy Silva on This Old House. Keep putting your experience into the videos.
Marty
You are spot on John. As I'm sure you well know, what matters is how many teeth are engaged in the wood at a time. It's very obvious when ripping with an underpowered saw where a 40T blade might struggle but a 24T blade will have no trouble at all. The tooth design helps too.
That's the wrong way! Put the blade full up because it's designed to go up there so it's obviously intended to be used that way.
Don't faff around with a push stick because you lose control.
Wear very loose clothing to protect your skin from dangerous sawdust.
Working when stressed is dangerous, relax! Have a beer. Use your left hand to push the wood in because your right is for holding your beer.
Long hours of standing can cause fatigue, but roller skates help you move around the shop quickly and promote good posture..
Look after your back! Do all woodworking lying down to reduce stress.
Being cold makes your fingers numb, don't loose control, start a fire indoors to stay warm. Keep your windows closed so theres no nasty draft.
Protect your hearing! Table saws can reach upwards of 100dB. Playing loud music or starting a few small engines inside will block out those nasty saw decibels.
Protect your eyes! Look away from your work at all times so nothing can get into them.
Now you have mastered personal safety, thanks random internet person.
Mid forties now, vocational school carpentry for high school shop class, still have not touched a moving blade myself either, really don't want to, but should that bald moment or weird slip occur and I meet Mr. Very Sharp Blade, I want a 1/32" deep scar as compared to missing parts from having the blade that high (for the ones who think it cuts easier). Common sense goes a long way.
What you use for a push stick looks exactly like the ones I have.
Many years ago I had a major accident on my table saw. I had bought the blade up through a piece of ply attempting to cut a given length marked but pencil. The cut was short at my end, so using two push sticks each 10” long I attempted to bring the ply back to my end (idiotic thing to do) and cut the 2” uncut section. Yep major grab/kickback and I followed the left push stick all the way to the blade. It happened in an instant. Major plastic reconstructive surgery was required and lengthy rehab. Fortunately I recovered full use of my left hand which looks odd with bent fingers. Had the blade been higher than the 1/8 above the workpiece I would have lost four fingers in the blink of an eye. No matter what I am cutting, the just above the workpiece rule is sacrosanct in my humble garage. Once bitten always cautious. Never say it cannot happen you. It did.
I used to be under the impression that having the blade up high would help keep the board straighter as I passed it through. If almost 10 inches of the piece was in contact with the blade, surely it would be easier to keep the board straight and flush against the fence, thus making a straighter cut. Kind of like cutting a straight line with a jig saw vs a circular saw. After getting a proper quality table saw and learning how to properly push with a push stick, I never have the blade exposed more than 1/8th inch.
Hi John, I have subscribed to your channel for a long time and this is the first time I have seen your video, (20.51) Scotland time. That little push guide you use, I have been using for the last 5-6 years. Where the difference in ours are mine doesn't have a red sticker on it. Regarding defending your self (quite a lot) as you say it is the way you have kept all your fingers all these years. I am 62 and I have got all of mine and I think the main reason is my way works for me. If anyone thinks it is dangerous well don't do it, but don't whine on about other people using it. They lose a finger not wanting to take advise, repeat advise, Fuck em. ( in good old fashioned Glasgow language.
I have to agree with John, for safety reasons alone you should adjust the blade height with as little blade showing above your wood to keep your hands safe.
First cut on an 8" Craftsman when Dad wasn't home, I was 7, now 59, long stints of no use as I work as a programmer though :-) Your regular push stick is great, best I've ever used, tried that longer one from the last video, feels awkward and clumsy, liked your saw height demo, have gotten so used to keeping the blade low, never thought to compare, glare to know that low and safer is not a compromise to cut quality, hmmmmm. I always wanted a riving knife, but didn't know that they don't completely prevent kick back. Now I guess I can live without it since with your fence upgrade, no way I replace my old baby.
Thanks for a better explanation. I think a lot of the "constructive' comments or criticism comes from that in Europe we have been subjected to a lot of "Health & Safety" laws introduced by the EU. I know that a lot of people in the Uk refer to H&S as Hysterics and Stupidity. I think it is important that people understand the dynamics of saw blades including things like rake angles.
When I went to work in the woodwork department of a secondary school ensuring a safe working environment was priority and that included dust extraction fitted to the crown guard. I remember people sawing up old Iroko worktops from the old science lab benches using blunt circular saw blades and watching timber lift off the saw bed.
It's nice to see you keep your workshop clean and tidy. I remember watching a guy called Norm Abraham on sky TV showing how he cut mortices and tenons on a circular saw using a spacial Jig for his saw table. He always mentioned things relating to health and safety saying that your fingers are the most important things you own.
The fist thing I did when I worked in a school as a technician was to have all the saw blades sharpened. I also made sure the dust extraction worked so the workshop was not full of wood dust like Iroko which as you know is carcinogenic. It might be nice to show people the issues of bad working practice in some of your videos.
Thank you for your informative video.
The only reason I can think of in favour of a high blade height is that the teeth meet the wood at a more perpendicular angle, pulling the wood down onto the table surface a bit harder. But for me that's not worth the risk of something slipping and me having to change my name to One Thumb. It's why I also use the blade guard; I like to keep my fingers as far away and shielded from sharp spinning objects as I can. :)
Mr. Heisz, I have a table saw with no extension wings. It's a vintage, belt driven 10" Craftsman. I am going to purchase your plan for a fence upgrade but I was hoping there was/is a fix to my problem. I've looked online for wings for that saw but can't find any. Do they have to be metal? I see in some of your videos you have extended the extensions...can that be done straight from the tabletop?
Thanks
Btw this wasn't a riddle. Thanks for the great videos and experience.
two words Blade guard!!! any how, fully raised blade means the back of the blade is following a more vertical path as it exits the table, increasing the possibility that your workpiece or offcut will be raised off the surface of the table and out of your control. love your videos.
I would say rate of perceived exertion will largely be influenced by the sharpness of the blade, type of blade used, etc. Great video!
Rip blades come in so many configurations. AOA. Angle of attack is primary importance. Style of blade also matters. Triple chip. Alternating bevel. Degree of bevel. So on and so on. Many things come into play. U can't blanket a type of cut across the board and expect same results. I have Freud pro rip blades that rip a 2x4 waaaay faster if the blade is set so that the leading tooth runs parallel to the surface of the board being cut. That usually puts the blade about 2" above the piece.
I haven't tried back to back like that but when I first got started I was told to raise the blade to about a 1/4" over the thickness of whatever I was cutting so I usually did that. Sometimes the blade would be higher than necessary from cutting something thicker earlier and I would be too lazy to lower it. I never noticed anything different other than my fingers were slightly closer to the blade.
I am nodding my head (which is far from being empty) because, after 35 years of being a professional carpenter and spending much of my time in front of various types of saws cutting nearly every stick and sheet that went into all those houses, I still have ten full length digits. It was only after I retired that I scuffed a thumb on a table saw. What a rush!!
You would have fit right in on one of our crews.
All the best,
-- Joe
Hi, thanks for the video. I enjoy your channel. I usually keep the blade around 1/4 inch or so above the wood, but sometimes I do raise the blade up higher - when I'm cross cutting plywood or cutting melamine, to reduce tear out/chip out. And the higher the blade, the better the result - in my experience. The rationale for this is that the teeth are contacting the wood at a steeper angle, which produces less tear out. At least that's what I've been telling myself for years! I don't remember ever hearing someone tell me to raise the blade up to increase the cut speed, so that was news to me. Doesn't seem to make much sense, like you said. I also sometimes raise the blade up to stop thin pieces of wood, little mouldings etc from chattering (and chipping) as I rip them. Which does help, although I wouldn't claim it's as safe as keeping the blade lower. What's your experience been? Thanks.
I've been working with table saws for about 20 years and thankfully, I haven't hurt my fingers either.
Thank you for this video. It helped me with my first cut with my new Ryobi today. The one thing that was strange. I was cutting a 2x5 just like you (making a replacement spindle for my porch). When I first started (with the blade all the way up) I began pushing the 2x4 and about 12 inches through a 36 inch cut, it felt like the 2x4 was being pushed straight back towards me. I got a little scared and shut the saw off. I then started it back up and continued my cut and it went through without any issue, but that was strange....
Another briliant sermon from father John from his podeum, been of the same age but far less experience in the use of the table saw i find his methods very usefull and can relate to his practicies when i am at my table saw, but like said everyone has their own ways and we are all free to follow whichever path we chose.
One of the things I found is that a very low blade is also good for cutting acrylic sheets.
The comments about raising the blade well above are probably correct. Less of the blade would be engaged reducing the kickback force, also the force would be in a more downward direction. That downward force creates more table friction that explain why they don't feel different. The likelihood of kickback should be less though. So when cutting long pieces where your hands down get near the blade, and binding is more likely, having the blade high is probably safer. Assuming you are cutting all the way through in one pass.
i love to watch your videos i watch all of your channels love everything you do.... i am always amazed that people make comments to you like they do same hear with me been working around a table saw 40 year + and i learned the same way you did from my dad when i was a kid and from my shop teacher same thing i just scratch my head when i hear stuff like that crazy to me ... i cant even be comfortable when the blade is sticking up that far above the wood... but i have watch allot of people do crazy things when working with a table saw.
if height doesn't matter in the cut, will the amount of sawdust be less if the blade is lower? Always great info!!!!!!
The only time I find having the blade fully extended has any advantage is when cutting very thin stock. Having the teeth impart in a more downward motion helps keep the thin stock on the table and control vibration / chatter. By the way, I'm a riving knife / guard in place kinda guy. Keep on posting, alway enjoy your vids.
Geez, John! Right on. Purchase a 20 year old Sears table saw in the early 70's. Been using it ever since, a lot. Didn't come with a riving knife, don't know if ever had one. Until I started watching youtube I never realized how dangerous it was. Nope, over 40 years of use and I have never had a kick back. What am I to do? Ha!
I cut a lot of melamine faced board Ave always have the blade as high as possible, I find I get a much cleaner cut (on the top face at least) as the teeth of the blade are cutting almost perpendicular to the board at the cut contact point.
Daninashed, that's an interesting observation which goes to show that there are exceptions to most any rule.
Indeed, I cut mainly wider boards so am rarely close to the blade
I've cut tons (literally) of melamine and never with the blade higher than normal and always with clean results. A sharp blade and a well aligned fence make a big difference and in my opinion, no ultra clean cut is worth the extra risk from a higher blade.
I Build It Scrap Bin Different strokes for different folks I guess, still got all 10 fingers!
I have found I do get better results with a high blade height and slower feed when cutting plywood or melamine. I also found that cutting just shy of the surface and creeping up on the break-through makes a clean cut too... and feels safer to me.
I'm a professional carpenter and I've been using a table saw as many years as you, we about the same age and I also started very young. The work I do, doesn't rewuire a table saw everyday, but I use one often.
When you cut that 2x4 with the blade way up, a shiver ran down my spine, ... Why? Because that situation can get ugly quick. The odds of something bad happening double IMO , just from having that blade up too high. Your table saw technique, is the best I've seen on UA-cam. 😉
One of the many things that need to be considered when cutting wood is the direction of cut. When ripping, the blade needs to chop its' way through parallel grain. When crosscutting, the blade should cut the fibers cleanly. You didn't mention what kind of blade you were using. It is my opinion that information is probably as important as anything that you did talk about. I normally like your videos, but this one left me wanting. Keep them coming. Like I said, I normally like what you have to say.
The type of blade makes very little difference, actually. Guys with little experience get hung up on the blade type and give it way more importance than it really has. Basics: more teeth, a finer, slower cut. Less teeth, a faster, rougher cut.
So, instead of focusing on the unimportant and using that as a point of criticism, take the message of this video as it is and use that to make your experience using a table saw a better one.
Good work Sir, and well said , and totally qualified, justified. Five Fingers Five toes, Perfect.
The purpose of setting the blade height based on the material thickness is for safety, not speed. The more blade exposed above the material, the closer it is to your hands.
John I have the same attitude and your right a sharp blade that is made for the correct cut makes all the difference in the world great videos
Heya John, I love your videos man! Keep em coming! I just wanted to chime in on the idea of blade height impacting the amount of force necessary to move the wood during cutting. I suspect the gentleman was thinking that when the blade is higher the cutting edge is making contact with the wood at a very steep angle, almost straight down into the table surface. When using a shallow blade depth it causes the teeth to make contact very near to the top of the blade at a much shallower angle, while the teeth are moving towards the operator as opposed to towards the table. It's not hard to see how one would expect to feel more resistance while the cut appears to push against the operator but with a sharp blade I can't for the life of me feel any additional resistance when using a shallow blade depth. I'll tell you one thing for certain tho- when using a higher blade height there is much more exposed surface area along the sides of the blade to potentially make contact with the wood along the cut line. In the event the wood begins to shift out of alignment while in the cut it's far more likely to bind and cause a kickback then if the same error had been made while the blade was it a shallower depth. Also cutting with the blade much higher that extra surface area along the sides of the blade increases the potential for friction and raises the likelihood of getting burns along the cut line. I've spent years cutting both ways and for what it's worth I couldn't agree with you more. Shallower depth increases operator safety and decreases tear out. That's a win-win if you ask me.
Maybe you guys in Canada get better wood. You said you are cutting spruce. Here in Colorado O don't remember EVER seeing spruce at even the top rated lumber yards. Here we get air dried pine that lays on you're garage floor and twists overnight. when I'm ripping a 2X 8' long, instead of the 3 footer that you tasted, I have difficulty getting through it unless I'm using my 24 tooth rip blade. My combination has 60 teeth and can't get through it without serious heating. For little projects, you're right, the blade doesn't make a lot of difference, but for ripping 20 2X8's it definitely does. DW
I was told by a Freud Tech that Freud (Industrial) saw blades are designed to give you the best cut quality when the bottom of the gullets are set at about the top of the wood. They design the tooth geometry for an attack on the wood at that height. Raise the blade too high and lower cut quality. Get better results and be safer too. I will only raise the blade higher than that when a particular cutting task requires it.
The higher the blade above the stock the more accumulation of resin on the side of the blade. This produces friction between blade and wood and will cause the blade to warp and mangle the wood. This is especially the case with a circular saw. As a carpenter of over 50 years, I can hear a circular saw set improperly from the next room. Good video
Shouldn't cut thin material with a fully raised blade on bigger higher HP saws or lighter material it can flick the timber up on the far side of the blade. Thus increasing the kickback risks.
I`ve still got all of mine also if your way looks like it works I want to try then see , if it does & feels good I`m sold. Always see if it works
I tried on saws at work and if the blade is down, you come to a knot and the wood starts to try and ride over the blade. That is with one inch stock though, if it is 2 inch stock on a 10 inch blade, it will make no difference. but don't listen to me, as any cut over 3 inches wide I don't use a push stick. Do what is safe for you, it's your fingers that you risk.