300 Norma Mag: Best Sleeper round
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2024
- In this video I talk about one of the most well designed, efficient and powerful 30 caliber magnums. I talk about the performance of the 300 Norma and we compare it to the 300 PRC. Hope you enjoy the video!
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The Mark22 Socom sniper system is in 300 Norma Mag as well as 308Win and 338 Norma Mag...so, the military is way ahead of us.
Thanks, I was thinking that Norma developed the 300 and 338 for the world's military market.
I would love to own that rifle
Marine scout snipers have been using 300 norma and 338 norma mag for some time now. They opted for these over 300 win mag
Bought a 300 Norma Mag not long ago. Pretty amazing. I see why the military is using this round.
That'll slap an elk.
Having military support will give it a strong following over time. I think the 338 Norma will start to have a following to.
I built a 300 Norma Mag Improved from the Alex Wheeler 35 degree shoulder. It gives you an extra 5 grains of powder and greatly reduces case stretch. With the 250 gr. Atip you can easily get 3100 fps in a 30 inch barrel. The only draw back to this cartridge is barrel life! You can expect about 1200 rounds if you don't push it really hard. I use Peterson brass and 100 cases lasted the life of a barrel. With a 230 gr. bullet the 1000 yard correction is 19.5 MOA and at a mile 53 MOA.
Very nice!
100% agree. I was 50/50 on getting a 300 WSM and a 300 Norma mag and went with the WSM simply because of rifle availability. I handled so available ammo is a non-issue. I may still pick up a rifle in the Norma
Man I tend to forget about the 300wsm and how good it is for what it is. It’s the only 300 mag id buy right now.
My two super sleepers, mainly because no one shoots them around here other than me, are the 7.5x55 and the 9.3x62. The 9.3 is chambered in a real nice CZ550 and the 7.5x55 is in an old swiss rifle that I completely cut down and sporterized, because that freaks collectors out. But I have more stashed away, in pristine condition, so sacrificing one as a range conversation starter was worth it. If I could find the right chamber ream I would A.I. the chamber for a 7.5x55 AI.
I cried when I heard CZ was stopping production of the 550. That 9.3x62 is a fantastic round. If I had a choice I'd get it in 416 Rigby or 458 lott, but if 9.3 was only option I'd scoop it up quick too and be very happy 🍻
@kylemartin832 I looked long and hard to find this rifle. I scored it in an old gun shop up north called Kesselring's back around 2008. The old man who owned the store had passed away and left it to his grandkids, who didn't know anything. They were busily exchanging older inventory for new tacticool stuff. Sitting on a top gun rack near the corner, covered in dust, was a brand new 2007 model 550. I asked about it, and the kid took it down. As he did, he stated that it was in some weird caliber. I tried not to act excited as I saw it was the 9.3. He stated that he would make me a great price on it if I paid cash. I asked if he had ammo, and he said nope. Me being a hand-loader, I already had everything, including the dies. I asked if he would take $523 because that's all I had in my wallet. He said I'll box it up. It's a beautiful rifle, and I am glad I got it because the CZ600 isn't something I would want.
I have an older Swiss K31 straight pull in 7.5x55 and it's a great shooter. Too nice to mess with, maybe if i find a newer one with the less desirable birch stock. They've gone up a lot in value since i got mine a few years back, and the GP11 ammo is getting tougher to find now.
I have a the better 30cal.. 308 Norma Mag it gets zero love..
@@Backin_Theday A lucky find for sure. I have no idea why cz stopped making the 550, but it's very disappointing.
Wearing airpods and I almost went outside to yell at the kids on my lawn, then realized…😂
Haha
7 Weatherby mag is my sleep cartridge
Basically just a 7 PRC
I have all of them and many times over in the last 60+ years of hunting and reloading but I hunt with the 300wsm because it works and has less recoil then the 7 rem mag. I bought my father a 30/378 when they very first came out and the rifle was $1,000. And the 5 boxes of ammo was $500. 🤔😳
Haha
The good old days with those prices.
Unfortunately, it's another great cartridge that I don't have any useful. Love the 300wsm 😊❤
300 RCM is a sleeper and extremely underated. I wish it caught on!
I think it came out at the wrong time like some if the other ones. Politicians kill some of them with their policies causing ammo shortages an never get the chance an it's gave up on
Ballistic twin to the 30-06, I think that's why it kinda died
U Just all talk
I am a LE sniper I have been shooting this round before most people knew about it,I’m friends with the head of accuracy international USA and he’s the one that put me on to this round, I’m also good friends with the former CEO of Norma he sent me several hundred rounds of brass to do load development and I have come up with some loads that far exceed what’s in the book using some powder developed by ramshot powder it’s there LR powder and it really makes the 300 Norma do some amazing velocity’s with the heavier bullets hands down this is an amazing long range round
Thanks for sharing!
it is a very interesting cartridge . the history of it when a target shooter shortened a 338 lapua to the 300 hulk. norma tweaked the shoulder angle, it is a little over bore but excellent with heavy 30 cal pills. im heavily invested in 300 wm and 338 lapua. i dont want to make the switch just yet. but it definitely has got my attention. i got a MRAD last year , with just a barrel kit ,dies and brass im in business.
The original was a belted magnum. It was a wildcat before Norma started loading it. It was called the 30-338.
Just got a barrel delivered in 300 norma! I have to shoot out my 338 Lapua barrel before putting it on tho. I am about 700 rounds in.
Oh Nice! What length barrel?
@ReloadingWeatherby It's a 27 inch, which was the max that preferred barrel blanks would do. The current barrel on the rifle is 30 inches.
From the horse’s mouth:
Norma ammo page
300 Norma
Berger hybrid 230 grain
Norma 217 , 87 grains, max load, 2940 fos, didn’t mention barrel lenght.
Norma 217 is slower than Reloader 22 and the slowest powder used by Norma to load their factory ammo.
Impressive 300 Norma, the improved version of the old (1960) 308 Norma.
308 Norma was killed by 300 win mag in USA
This caliber in a 9.5 twist barrel is really really nice especially if you run a 28 or 30 inch barrel
I switched from 300PRC to 300NM a while back. 208’s at 3180fps and crazy good accuracy makes me smile. The PRC was great to be fair, but the NM is next level
Thanks for sharing
Special Forces are adopting 338 NM and 300 NM so, I expect and hope this will get traction !
Seams to tick a lot of boxes. If only it was named 300 sniper !
Why do you expect and hope? It already has enough traction. All the components are available for it. Plenty of brass, powder, bullets and all the dies have been around for a while.
@piro2890 ok great news . I'd like to see more on the shelf. Rifles and ammo
@@kirkchapman80 Irrelevant with this cartridge. Pointless to go with 300NM when there's already 300 WM and 300PRC. Buying off the shelf garbage means watered down, anemic loads. What is the point of that? 300PRC is already a dud, gimmick round, but now 230gr 300NM at 2850fps?? Get the fuck out of here. If you're going to take it seriously, do. If not, stick to whats already out there because its obvious you're not going to capitalize on the cartridge's strength and benefits over the other big 30 cal. What do you want it for, to say you have one? Save your money!
I went with 300 PRC. Handloading 212 grain Hornady ELD-X with Retumbo. Averaging over 2900 fps. That's gonna get me pretty much everywhere I wanna go.
That eldx is a horrible hunting bullet
Good cartridge
You might do a little checking into your bullet? Good cartridge but the bullet will not hold up at proper hunting ranges of 400 yards or less! Don’t believe everything that Hornaday is telling customers like the velocity that it is getting when in fact it’s getting about 100-200 fps slower. The eldx are target bullets not hunting bullets I could show you some game I have seen shot with their so called hunting bullets and it would bring tears to your eyes of the suffering the animal went through before it died😳
@@edwardabrams4972
Mine's taken everything I've shot with it. That's all that matters to me.
@@bustabass9025it's pretty funny how hunters have used 150gr rem core locks in their 300 mags for decades with little issues but use a modern ELDx and somehow you're cruel to animals.
I have used it for 2 years in my blaser r8 with 27" factory barrel, 900m/s with 225gr eld-match and 1000m/s with 180gr scirocco2
Thats a lot of energy at 1000yd. Its interesting but the truth is ive got an old Nosler 48 custom 300WSM ive yet to use and still getting aroun with the 270win. The larger more exotic cartridge cases are too hard to source and spendy for my liking as i get older.
Just picked me up a new one. Waiting on my dies to get here to start testing. 325 wsm
That's what I use it's a pretty efficient cartridge too I also reload for mine you kind of have to hogdon Re did all their load data for it which is kind of nice
That's what I use it's a pretty efficient cartridge too I also reload for mine you kind of have to hogdon Re did all their load data for it which is kind of nice
It is absolutely very new. I bought the Barrett MK-22 with all 3 calibers. It is very hard finding 300 Norma Mag ammo. However, it is out there. I think people are going to find out that the accuracy with the Norma Mag is going to be a little better and is going to have people getting hooked on it when the Norma Mag shooters keep inching out the other cailbers.
Its been around since 2012. Now the market is newly catching on but its been around for a long time.
@@steves.6519 That cailber may have been around since 2012, however, it didn't find its niche until the military made it a part of its new sniper rifle system. Ask most people the Norma Magnum rounds were known but most people stayed with tried and true win mags.
I am a reloader, and I have from 22-250, 6mm ARC 6mm creedmoor 280 remington 30-378 Weatherby and 375rum. Thinking to get 458 lott. Over bora?
The .270 weatherby is mine. But, we might get a .270 rpm. Like a 175 accubond at 3100 fps. Weatherby can make things happen others can’t because customers know weatherby will make ammo for their chamberings even if it’s not popular, and it’s quality.
Anything 35 caliber is a sleeper cartridge. 35 Norma magnum was a good design. Problem is the limited selection of 35 cal bullets. A 350 grain high BC 35 cal bullet fired from a 378 Weatherby mag size case would be devastating.
Make it a bonded core for long range African Buffalo Hunting.
A 375 Ruger neck down to 35 cal with a 300 grain bullet would be a dandy for conventional hunting ranges.
In Hornady Reloading book you can get 2900 FPS from a 190 grain A Tip Match-BC .838 w/ 24” Barrel. The 300 PRC w/ the 230 Grain A Tip is 2850 FPS and a BC of .823.At 1,000 yard the 7PRC set up is still 1900 FPS and 1500 ft lbs energy. Too bad Hornady shortened the 7 PRC case. F Class shooters will take care of that with a -7-300 PRC. They will shoot Berger, Hornady and ( Alco 195 grain bullets with a . .850 BC. ) It will probably be around 3150-3200 FPS from a 26” barrel. That will be a hard hitter.
It would be interesting to hear if military snipers like it vs other options.
One just commented... he loves it
I think you live in Utah. What part of the state? I have enjoyed your videos. You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing.
Utah County
Budget minded tip , re barrel your 7 Mag , 300 Win , 338 Win ect to a fast twist 300 WBY ( it’s cheaper than buying a new rifle ) ! You say WBY brass is expensive well try to find 300 Norma brass ! All these new cartridges are just to sell ( NEW Rifles ) !…….
I had no trouble getting 3 boxes of Lapua 300NM brass, and I’m in Australia (where things are regularly hard to get). It’s all comparative - might be harder to find than common cartridges like .308win, but compared to 9.5x77? Easy. And same price as PRC and Win Mag
@@RandomHolepuncher well I’m surprised you can still own a gun down under !…….
@@thomasdaum1927that’s the common rumour, but it’s actually not difficult at all. I shoot everything up to 375 CheyTac, and have a 416 Barrett on the way. I even have a PC Charger. We don’t have the selection you have in the USA, but we have more than most countries
@@RandomHolepuncher Good for you Jimmy !…..
I’m shooting a 300 Norma with 245 Berger (N570) and get 2930 fps (26 inch barrel). Great round
That's sweet! Thanks for sharing!
I made one out of a Mk V action. 31" Broughton barrel with a Fat Bastard. I drive 215 Bergers 3150 fps. I have seen 3200 but try to keep it down. I can dial to 2000 yds. 1 mile hits are easy.
Hi RW, thanks for doing a video on the 300 Norma. When the 300 and 338 Normas were first announced I had high hopes for them. Years later I still haven't found ammo or a rifle for either. Unfortunately I believe these are well on their to the obsolete heep. Very much like the 308 Norma and 358 Norma. In reality I hope they could beath new life into the 358 Norma. An old dream cartridge of mine. That's just not going to happen, the day of the 35's are long gone and forgotten. Maybe in Sweden they're doing OK.
Now I must take exception to something. I do not believe any cartridge is inheritantly accurate. A chamber or barrel can be accurate. A bullet can be accurate. Even an action can be accurate. But not a cartridge. If I'm wrong please explain how. I love to learn.
Thanks
Cheers, Jeff
Thanks for watching! I don't think the 300 and 338 Norma will die... they will just be obscure
If you hapen to come accross one (358N) Grab it. Then get plenty 300 Win Mag cases and reload. 358 Norma amo and brass show up now and then.
@@ReloadingWeatherbyObscure, now that is a very nice way to say obsolete. Haha. RW, you are proving yourself to be a wordsmith. I hope you're right.
@@WillyK51 thank you. That is interesting, I never knew 300 Win brass could be used for a 358. Heck I've got plenty of 300 Win and 338 Win brass. Great tip, thanks again.
There are several UA-cam videos about it. I don't own one, but when debating to which Cartridge to rebarrel my old 1917 US Enfield, the logic was 35 Whelen, But what about a bit more Omph? Looked into the 338 WM, but a big bore fan since young(Grew up reading Elmer Keith) The 358 NM became a viable option. The 35 Whelen is on hold, But if I run into 358 NM at a reasonable price, Will grab it 👍👍
338 norma mag I'm curious to see the information on that.
I can get 3100fps with 230g Atips from a 300 WM at max load, 30" barrel. I believe the NM slighly outperforms it.
My dad had a custom 7.62 Norma mag back in the 70's. It was a whopper. Same as 300 Norma mag? He had to order ammo from European distributors back then. Not on the shelf
Im confused by some of the things you said. You called the Norma a relatively new cartridge. Its been around since 2012. Ive had mine for over 4 years now and it far exceeds the PRC (which is a newer cartridge) as well as the wsm. The US military picked the Norma up as its SOCOM sniper caliber recently as well so Id say it wont be a sleeper that long if it truly is now.
2012 isn't that far back. Especially when you compare it to 300 WSM(2002), 300 RUM(1999) 300 Win(1963) 300 WBY(1944)
I remember commenting on one of your earlier videos that the 300 norma was superior to the 300prc.
So, I fully agree.
I know it's controversial, but I don't believe short fat like the wsm is anymore efficient than a long case with similar capacity like the 300 H&H, although I'm pretty sure the 300wsm has tighter chamber tolerance, so it might be more accurate on average.
I also thought it was long ago concluded that the 300win easily outdid the 300wsm. At least that was the conclusion of a bunch of long range hunters on a forum anyway.
I also don't believe in efficiency in cartridges with the same case capacity and a poor argument regardless.
Because the smaller the case, the more efficient no matter what, so if you like speed like I do, we're all very aware of what we're giving up.
I don't expect anyone to agree, but I've shot a lot of cartridges through a chronograph and have my opinions.
I'm sure i seem like a codger and I probably am , but I'm also about your age.
Either way, thanks for the great content, and I enjoy it very much.
I think we can all learn something from each other no matter what.
What do you consider is efficiency? To me its doing more with less powder and the example of the wsm, its pretty darn close to the win mag with 10 grains less powder. Theres a reason why certain cartridges win in accuracy competitions and why some arent used. There is something to case shape and capacity. Look at what wins in 6-6.5mm cases in 600-1000 yrd shooting
@orr89rocz by your same argument, a 308 win is much more efficient than a 300wsm. Obviously the more powder capacity, the less efficient.
More powder capacity less efficient, and I've seen no evidence that two cartridges with a different shape but the same capacity produce a different velocity at the same pressures.
Now I do believe some cartridge shapes are easier to reload for accuracy, such as the 30 degree shoulder, and tighter chamber tolerances makes brass last longer.
Here's a question. Have long range competition shooters breaking all the records nowadays?
That I don't know, but superior optics and what should be superior quality rifles and new powders could also be a big factor as well if so.
I have a 45-70 sharps and the great shooters shoot those with open sights better than most shooters, so maybe straight wall is the best design.
@@wheelchairhillbilly no the 308 is not more efficient just because of the capacity. Its not linear imo. Just because its less doesnt make it better. Its more of a bell curve. There is an optimal ratio of case capacity to velocity. Cases like the 7 saum are the high end of efficiency while the 284 winchester and wildcats on that case are preferred in long range accuracy. Lately the 6.5 prc necked up to 7mm has optimal case capacity and shape and seems to be where F class is headed.
@orr89rocz okay, try getting 2800fps out of a 7mm-08 and compare it to a 7saum shooing 2800fps with a 150 gr bullet.
It's going to take about 10 less grains of powder to achieve that speed with the 7mm-08.
Why? Because with less case capacity you use faster powder to achieve a max load, so I would consider a 7mm-08 to be much more efficient by anyone's definition.
I love the 284 based case and the 6.5prc case great as well.
I have a 6.5prc rifle and I wouldn't consider trading it for a 6.5 Creedmoor even though my 6.5prc is not an efficient cartridge in my opinion.
Neck it up and I'm sure you would be correct.
I doubt Long range competition shooters are very concerned about efficiency either.
I'm guessing easy to reload, and barrel life and heat are top of top of the list, and I'm sure they love a short action. So, they try to find the best combination of getting the good velocity with all of the above.
Every caliber case would be important to find the best combination for all those things.
Obviously, the more overbore you go the less efficient.
For hunting I don't care until the returns get too diminished.
I have no proof, but I bet a 300 H&H would produce the same velocity as a 300 wsm with both having a similar capacity.
I know some people use 300wsm data for their 300H&H's because it's more modern data and works great.
I always like a good guns and cartridge debate and if you have any proof of actual test work you're welcome to look up my information and email me.
Or email me anyway. No hard feelings on my side.
300 norma mag has bigger base and need bigger bolt , and bolt and receiver become heavier, i don't like it for hunting rifles.
I don't think it's a hunting cartridge
You should buy a .270 Wby Mag for your channel. Loaded with a bullet such as the 150 grian accubond LR should be the best .277" hunting round in the market, and if you can stabilize higher BC bullets as you did with the .270 win with a 1:10" barrel it will definitely beat the 6.8 western and the PRCs.
I would use the 165 gr ABLR for it
hi, last comment. There is no comparison of the same bullet in the same length barrel.is there a computer program that will do that? AND then there is still the choice of gunpowder.
I don't know of a program that does it. I do it the slow way
Why 21 degree shoulder instead of 30-35 degree one?
It's a Military round. Needs to feed flawlessly
Can someone explain overbore?
That is when the majority of the propellant is burned in the barrel and not the case.
This happens when the cartridge is relatively large to the diameter of the projectile.
For example 7mm-08 is exactly bore. 308 is slightly under bore and the 6,5 creedmore is slightly overbore. The 243 is overbore. Same cartridge, however diameter change makes it under or over bore
Google it for a more comprehensive explanation.
@VonVladimierVoltar that makes sense, I appreciate it.
hi, another question can all of these be set up to use in an AR platform?
Yes
Where is the 30-378 Weatherby? I thought you were the Weatherby guy🤔😳😂
I had the 300 Weatherby there
hi, is there a program? to run all these cartridges through? I would like to know which is the most powerful long range cartridge?
I don't know of any... I do it the hard way by putting it in myself.
@@ReloadingWeatherbythat can be painful
VS 300 norma improved ? Advantages?
Not sure
Heck yea🎉 why not popular here don’t make sense 🎉🎉
Think i go to the 300 norma....7mm prc was the one but blaser do not make barel for it...But rekyl are somthing to...not easy....
use 9,3x62 so rekyl feling are no problem, but inpakt spotting solo are
What book is that 🤔…I want to purchase my own please
Hornady reloading manual
@@ReloadingWeatherby thank you…awesome video!
300 norma would be great but having a sub $800 rifle chambered in it and having factory ammo at $3 /round or less really makes a cartridge functional
I don't think it will take off here
What??? No love for the 300 SAUM, ❤my model Seven…
Sorry
I think with the military adoption... It might take off here. I've seen it growing recently
308 Winchester vs 308 Norma!
It came out in 2012
Relatively new
The slowest for the 300 Norma
You forgot the .30 nosler AGAIN !!
I just did a video on it...
Saying the 300 Norma mag is efficient is like saying 28 Nos is efficient 🤣😂😅
I said the design was efficient for its size. I should have expounded more on it. Compare a 300 Norma vs 300 RUM... Norma is more efficient
it is compared to the RUM and wby 300s
Overbore?! There is no such thing when the slowest powders run out of room…
I will stay with my 300 RUM Ackley Improved. Even when it was a straight 300 RUM it bested the 300 Norma Magnum.The 338 RUM is more accurate than any of these except 7mm RUM...but its a barrel burner.
Argue all you want BC and speed. More of each less drop and more energy. You want .25 groups at 300 yards better get good at handloading. Lol.
I'm not competing in a shooting discipline... Why do I need to get .25 inch groups at 300 yards?
@ReloadingWeatherby they are two different perspectives. One person says more bc and speed. The other says better hand loads.
Bc and speed = technology. Handloads = personal craft. I love my 6.5x55 and I love my .300 norma. Both are unique.
"250gr at 2800 fps". Nah son...learn how to reload and 3000fps with 250gr is no problem. If you can't get a 300 Norma Mag well over 2900fps with over 220gr bullets, you made a bad choice and wasted your money. Stick to 300 Win Mag and 300 PRC if thats the case.