One of the big advantages of the prc series is that the rifles from the factory come with chamber/throat dimensions and twist rates that are appropriate for the heavy efficient bullets. A custom 300 win mag with a good twist for heavy bullets takes away much of the prc advantage.
this is something i noticed also. 300 win mag was launched as a hunting cartridge , on the shelf you'll find 150, 180 ,190 grain mostly hunting bullets. where as the prc is 205, 212, and 225. factory ammo.
"Custom" = $$$ + time + hassle, a lot of people just want to buy factory gun and factory ammo to perform in elr ... That's where the 300 PRC wins that fight
How far we've come that now a 230 grain .308 bullet is "light". The thing that makes shooting so much fun is the people like you guys on the crazy extreme who are pushing the envelope. Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.
As always, perfection and truth... I have been reloading for 50 years, even them there were many wildcats... Now days just happy with hunting/stalking at no more than 100 yards and for that Sako and Nosler cartridges do a great job! At 71, time is slipping away, this would be too much in the way of living 'life to the fullest', too tied up with the laptop and work, reloading no longer in my bucket list... Keep up the amazing work!
@John only if you're a sloppy shot. My dad has used 300 RUM for deer for about a decade now, and we've never had a problem. Is it necessary? No, but to worry about "destroying too much meat" is ridiculous, it doesn't that much harder than a WM or Weatherby Mag that it destroys significantly more meat than other comparable cartridges. Its all about your shot. Hell, my cousin blew the front quarter off of a deer with a .308 and a 150 gr bullet.
I bought a Christensen arms 300 PRC just to have something "new" for a hunting rifle. I'm really pleased with the round and how good the factory ammo shoots. I've yet to reload for it but have all the stuff just not the time. I cant say it shoots better than any 300WM I've built as a gunsmith. I think all of the Big 30cal mags are great don't see one being leaps and bounds better then the next one. Great videos!
Your experience was very similar to mine. I worked for a custom rifle manufacturer that performed load development for each gun to achieve peak accuracy. In the 180-230 grain range, both the Win Mag and PRC performed almost identically. Hornady has developed some cool cartridges lately. But I don’t see the 300 PRC giving enough of a performance increase if someone already has an accurate rifle chambered in 300 Win Mag.
I think Hornady was trying to bring that custom 300 accuracy to a SAAMI spec. The 300 Win Mag can be super accurate out of a custom built rifle, however those rifles aren't really to SAAMI specs. The 300prc adds those longer OALs, tighter twist rates, and tighter tolerances to the SAAMI specs and allows for factory rifles to knock on the door of custom 300 Win Mags in terms of accuracy and performance at fraction of the cost.
Great info. Have been looking at Rum vs .300 compared to some of these other calibers. I am a greenie in this area and your info is quite helpful. Keep it up 👍
Finally, its a pleasure to hear the truth - which is as you stated sir - it's all largely been done before and done well and the new stuff is largely sales driven. While components have improved there's really not a lot of new stuff that qualifies as "innovation". Nice to see someone stepping up and calling it the way it is! Cheers
The thing is if you are stuck with SAAMI specs. That means a 300 Win mag with a 1 in 10" twist & a .314" freebore dia. The specs for 300 PRC are 1 in 8.5" & a ..3085 freebore dia. If you are shooting a SAAMI spec rifle, the 300 PRC will step up. Great work,I really enjoy you're channel.🏟🎀⬜🇨🇮🇺🇸
For Mark... that advantage is useless since all of his rifles are custom rifles. For the average shooter that wants to casually shoot long range... sure the 300 PRC is built for that. But any serious ELR shooter isn't going to buy a factory rifle. So the 300 PRC has no advantage over a 300 Win mag, 300 RUM, 300 Norma or 30-378 Weatherby.
I was devastated last week when I got a call saying my 300 winmag isn't coming to next year. So I cancelled the order and found a 300 PRC in a chassis 26 inch 1/8 twist and bought it lol. Not quite sure what I'm in for but I'll find out Friday. Cheers Mark
PRC is just more hype by you know who.....I'll stick with my 300RUM. Wow you summed it up perfect by the end! When it comes to .308" it's ALL been done before. If you can't find a 30cal cartridge to fit your need then your need is not with 30cal bullets. You were trying so hard to be as neutral as anyone could possibly be but your integrity got the best of you and you stood behind the data points gathered by the dedication of your lovely spotter and yourself. Canada 🇨🇦loves you guys!
You are one of the most brilliant guys I have heard on UA-cam. Have you ever done videos on how barrel burning is caused by incomplete combustion, not the speed of the bullet, as people seem to believe? Even more, the new military 80,000 psi round will burn barrels less due to the faster burning of powders. Also, have you ever done a video on how a bullet that is not fully stabilized will spiral out to 100 yards before it settles down?
Thank you! So many don’t understand the infinite amount of cartridges already in existence. They obviously have never heard of names like Lott, Roberts, Ackley, etc. New cartridges are basically renamed wildcats or tweaked original versions to have more efficiency or new projectiles.
I added up all of the 30 cal I could find a couple of years ago and I really can't remember but I know it was way over 100- An old time gunsmith I am friends with agreed with me that the only reason they keep developing new cartridges is to sell new guns and new ammo-how many 30-06's does one person want or need? there is really no need for anything else-although I was 50 before I ever bought one and I still mainly use a 7mm mag but I would be entirely satisfied with my dads first 30-06 that I finally got-a HVA mauser action 30-06 that weighs 6 pounds and kicks like hell but it has killed more deer and elk than I can remember
A 250 in a 30 cal bullet... something else for me to think about, thanks Mark. My shooting buddy and I have a saying, "just one more thing..." At any rate, thanks for the episode, interesting as always!
My .300 PRC is a Savage Precision Mod 110. I put a Steiner scope on it and its far better than I am. The only ammo ive used in it is the Hornady 225 ELD match and Berger 205 gr Elite Hunter hollow points. I found the Hornady shoots a bit better and faster for me but Im not shooting the distances you are. Here in Tennessee its mountain peak to mountain peak which is "generally" 1000+ yards (meters in your case) so its not an extreme distance. Love the video a lot of knowledge!!!
I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and viewpoints. I have to agree with you that a lot of the new cartridges are treading on ground already captured...with few exceptions. IMHO
mark, wesome video, very informative, honest and not trying to sell a product. I’ve been watching your channel for a while now and honestly, your opinion and experience I value And respect more than a lot of other folks I watch. I almost bought a PRC over a WM, but you now got me looking back at the WM and now the RUM. I prefer the heavier projectiles on anything over 223/556 calibers. Just in case she doesn’t know, let Same know she’s a great spotter, My wife is in the army training how to control and drop heavy ordnance and told her she’s gonna be my spotter when she gets out and we go LR/ELR shooting. Y’all keep up the good work. Looking forward to more videos and testing. \0 (that’s a wave) cheers good sir
really glad I watched this video. I am having a really hard time balancing all the pros and cons for my purpose between 7mm RM, 7mm SAUM, 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, 300 WM etc... back to the drawing board lol
Mark, great content as usual and I appreciate your honesty in your comments. It just shows how some companies think they have just come up with the best cartridge ever then you put them right back in their place with some real life facts. I think there is a lot of people out there that would like to find out more about the 300NM. I know the military are looking into a 1:8 twist 26” barrel configuration. What length and twist rate have you chosen for your 300NM project? What barrel manufacturer have you chosen?
I have used the 230's for many years, but the 250's also run very well, all explained in the video, more to test in the coming years, as for barrels, I haven't seen any real shooting differences amongst any quality barrel makers, just use what I can get for the project I am on, Cheers
I suspect that you'll be correct about the Norma, it's sort of their metier -- light bullets for caliber, moving at high velocities. It only makes sens that the case shape would be optimized for that.
Where the .300 PRC really shines is in factory rifles, the chmaber tolerances are tighter than the factory win mag chambers. And most of the .300 PRC factory rifles have the twist rate to take advantage of heavier projectiles.
Perspective. I think Hornady really wanted to develop an off the shelf, inexpensive Long Range large caliber and they did just that. Most off the shelf factory rifles are shooting the either 212 or 225's very well. At $45 box you get accuracy, reasonable performance and a caliber that retains plenty of energy at 1000yds. Its hard to get all of those same features off the shelf with the 300 win and 300 RUM across the spectrum like the PRC is doing. For the reloader, you are I would agree its just another cartridge.
Hi Tim, as said in the video, this is about ELR, but yes the of the shelf rifles would be s decent thing and as said they will work well with the lighter or more regular weight bullets, agreed. Still mainly about sales, but if looking for a 300 magnum a good option, but maybe not the new magic option that some might presume, lol, Cheers
Hi Mark and Sam! I would suggest adding the 300 Weatherby (really the original commercial 300 Mag) to the comparison. Be very interesting to see how it would match up with the other in this class.
Awesome video. You’re starting to be my go-to for real world experience. I bought a Remmy 300 RUM that I thought to use as my ELR rifle, and I see that you’re using a longer barrel. Mine is a 26” Sendero but I’m thinking of going to a heavier 30” contour. Also, I was thinking of going to a 300 PRC but you’re saying the 250gr works really well with the RUM. Maybe I should just stick with the RUM, then?
Don't think Hornady is about ready to stop innovating, or sitting on its butt selling only the stuff that's already been done. But I think the innovation have come moreso in the handgun ammunition designs in the last decade than rifle stuff.
Just curious. I'm moving back to Sth. Australia from the USA in a few months, having lived in the States for quite some years. I used to be on friendly terms with some of the station owners up north in SA, and with all the camels running amok I would't mind getting into some camel shooting. I know in the past that the 270 was often the go-to for property owners dealing with camels, but all I've been reading is that the animals have become quite skittish with all the government-sponsored culling and are hard to approach in open country. I was originally going to use a ruger 375 on what is, to all intents and purposes, a moose-sized animal, but I'm wondering if the longer range capabilities of the 300 PRC might not be a better fit under the circumstances?
@@markandsamafterwork So you peddle gun ballistics and shoot metal targets - got it. Most gun 'experts' actually have some experience hunting with the guns and ammunition they hype or test. I guess you just shoot at the Olympics.
For out of the box rifle with factory ammo a cva cascade "long range hunter" in 300 PRC is hard to beat for it's intended purpose. When you go custom & hand loads it's a different story
The 300 prc can be found in a browning x bolt hells canyon with brake. Probably only kick like a 30-06 with this setup. I'm thinking of going to this caliber for a do it all gun and I like reloading. Would you consider this round if you don't yet have a 300 wm?
After hearing your observations around 7:30 about case efficiency being dependent on bullet weight, I'm wondering if a powder with a different, slower burn rate in the PRC would fix the problem you describe?
Of course, and you could do the same with the win mag and so on.....thing is I don't describe a problem, I point out a comparison, all up the PRC works just fine, the problem is folks wanting it to be a little more than it is, lol, Cheers
What powder do you use for your hot loaded 300 win-mag rounds? Excellent video! Thank you for the information. I see no reason to change from 300 win-mag. Hot loads with 220 gr seated long do magic at distance.
It all about making factory ammo shot real well with sami specs is only real big advantage to 300 win mag just question is if it takes off and ammo gets cheaper with popularity is there a reason to buy a new 300 wsm
Mark, what is the twist rate of your 300RUM you are using for the 250 grain bullets? After watching and rewatching your video regarding twist rates, I'm assuming that it is a 1-10" twist rate. When you check their website, they suggest a tighter twist rate but, I have to believe, after shooting a 230gr bullet 3543 yards, they're wrong with their advice.???
Thanks Garrett, not a problem I have had, even at high pressures, but yes the nature of the brass I have seen over the years is a little inconsistency for sure, Cheers
This is all very interesting. I've been looking at all the varieties of 300 cartridges and wondering what would I choose for LR/ELR. Looking forward to your conclusions.
hypothesis on short fat case vs long skinny (and performance of accompanying bullet weight): pressure curve - short fat = quicker pressure spike and drop (more punch vs push), which "works" for a comparatively lighter bullet but runs out of oomf with the heavy's. tall thin = similar pressure jump but much slower pressure drop (more push vs punch) which lends to better [exiting bullet concentricity] and since the heavier bullet of same caliber normally has better BC you end up with better consistency at range. **In the way of designing your own cartridge - Id like to see (if it can even be done) a cone-like shaped case that is 'fat' on primer end and 'skinnier' on bullet end...get good punch and also decent push. Benefit being you could fit the heavier bullet in shorter OAL while still getting enough speed to take full advantage of heavier bullet BC. 5-15 degree taper from base to neck of case, or perhaps a "double-neck/shoulder" case if thats 'easier' engineering wise to make. Am I talking gibberish? lol - cant know for sure til ya try it out!
Seems to me that what your tests and others seem to say is that further work in bullet consistentcy is where the focus of the manufactures should be pointed.
Hey there Mark. Just coming back from double spinal surgery. I was happy to be able to concentrate on your presentations. A question about powders, I would never ask for weights of course, but if you could let me know what powders you are using? That would let me do some calculations on my own. By the way, I was really excited with the video of that group you shot. EXCELLENT! Cheers.
Hi Aaron, I am use AR2225 in all these, would like to test some of the other slower powders, but we have little to no access, may move some details around but fundamentals will stay the same, Cheers
The PRC interested me primarily because of that 250 grain A-tip...So that is great preliminary testing information to know. I don't have a reloading set up so I'm at the mercy of factory options and Hornady hasn't put that 250 grainer into a complete cartridge yet. Just love the concept of a bullet with a higher bc than the .338 LM with less recoil and same performance. Great video.
Thanks Man, Cheers FYI, no matter how you set up a 300PRC will never have the outright performance of a well set up 338LM, but yes will have less recoil.....
@@markandsamafterwork What if you had a 1:8 twist in your PRC? Think that would give you the performance increase in that case for the heavier bullets?
Twist? no that does not give better performance......so no, but keep in mind these is just what we have found so far, maybe watch video again, no twist issues, just not quite as much speed available as in comparison to the win mag when running the heavy bullets, still OK but all pretty thoroughly explained in the video, Cheers
This a very late comment, but I am wondering if the twist rate on your 300 Mag is why it is delivering or was the default twist rate working that well ? I enjoy your very deliberate way to highlight pros and cons.
When you do more videos on this will you share what velocities you are getting with each cartridge and bullet weight? I’m curious to see how they look against each other in that perspective as well between the 4 cartridges
Love my 300PRC in 225gr Hornady. I have an MPA set up and a Nightforce optic. It’s a phenomenal and versatile set up. I can literally shoot it all day. This was really great Mark. I have friends who shoot the 300 RUM and love it. For me, I’m extremely satisfied with the 300 PRC.
I had different results than yours, but I am using Reloader 26. Which is the same powder Hornady uses for the factory load as well. I found 300 PRC had about 5% more run and powder capacity than my Winchester 300 win mag brass as well.
Maybe watch the rest of the video, because as said in the video, we expect to see that when using lighter bullets, below 230's I expect the PRC to has slight advantages of the Win Mag. Also if using a 24" to 26" barrel I would not expect the Win Mag to perform as well as it did with the 250's, all about the way the case design uses the powder and optimizing the chamber to what suits each of them the best. Cheers
MarkandSam AfterWork I shot most 225 but had a hard time spotting missing beyond 2,000 yards. It was easier with the 250gr but I am running 1-8 twist instead.
That's all fine but what about the weatherby 300/378? How does it go? And how does the shoulder of the cartridge effect it's combustion characteristics?
Wondering if you guys have tested the new 230 grain sierra match kings(#2251). They are very long and have a fairly high BC. I think the G1 is over 0.8 and they say a twist of 8 or faster is required to stabilize. They were going on sale here in the US for about 55 cents each which is a little more expensive than the ELDM but cheaper than the bergers. I wonder how they perform at ELR
Hi Mark as others have already mentioned I would like to see you test the .300 weatherby mag against all the cartridges you have in this video . I have been following you for years now and have learnt a lot from you . I'm stepping up into elr shooting so thats why i ask the question above .
So the 300 PRC must be similar /close to 300WSM. From what I can gather the win mag and WSM equal velocity around 200gr, and after that the win mag comes away with the bigger capacity
Always a pleasure to listen to u. U are very knowledgeable on everything. I got a custom 300 rum. 1-10 twist. 31 5 krieger 1.25 straight on a Remington ultra mag action. I got the burger 245 grain that I haven't tried. Can u help me and what do u think.
Thanks for the reply. 30 inch barrel with a 9 twist. I was thinking the 230 Atip would be a good match out to 1760yds. Look forward to the coming videos. 👍
Mark, you should build one rifle, in any caliber and sell it...ive talked about you to alot of my buddies here in montana, and actually just sent this video over to one of them...he wants a PRC for this elk season... but theres alot of people i know who watch your videos and all of them would love to have a rifle built by you, weather they can afford it is another story...just an idea..
I’ve found a lot of other PRC shooters touting the 230 A-Tips & 245 Berger’s as the best combo for 300 PRC largely with Reloder 33 & N570 @ 2900-3000 FPS. Do you still think the 220 Berger is the best suited projectile?
I ran into a guy that said he runs a brass tube in his carriage that carry the primer strike forward to brun powder backwards. Does thus sound insane or something that has benefits?
So in your opinion, stepping into a new caliber outside of .308 for medium range hunting engagement, which cartridge of the 3 would you reccomend? Do you think the belted case matters when reloading? Thank you for the video and the great comparisons.
Hi Ryan, glad you liked the video, and well that would be a questions for your local hunters, not something I could answer, and no I have no issue with reloading belted cases, Cheers
Mark, been following you for 4 plus years and it’s great to see how you have grown and been such an amazing educator! Quick question for you, I think I am ready to “graduate” from my Masterpiece Arms 6.5 PRC that I have had great times with. Curious on how your thinking has evolved since you made this video over a year ago on the 300 PRC. Thanks so much for all your hard work in your channel, it’s been one of my “Go To”s”. Cheers
This testing is as said about ELR, in F class they are not shooting the same distances, so not using the heavier bullets nor needing the horse power, so in some fashions not comparable, beyond that not a cartridge we have tested, Cheers
We have tested the 6.5 SAUM, but can not simply build any cartridge to test, we don't have a unlimited budget, but if sponsored would more than happy to, Cheers
Hey mark and Sam I'm really eager to see how your Norma goes Im looking at building one next I currently own a 300wm runs really well for hunting and target shooting with my current load 212gr eldx but I do find they are an inconsistent bullet. I was wondering how many rounds you normally go through on your win mag before you notice major accuracy issues? I'm at about 1300 and hasn't really opened up much at all am wondering because want to go Berger otm 230 on my re barrel.
Hi, depends on how you shoot, I haven't worn a barrel out yet, probably up around 2k shots on my first winmag barrel, but changed for testing different features, same as always here, lots of testing, lots of barrels, but as said haven't changed one for wear yet, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork ohh ok thanks for that I might just bite the bullet and rebarrel now as the 1 in 10 just won't cut it for the 230gr I don't think thanks for the response mate hope you guys are all well over that side of the Tasman cheers for all the really amazing content 👍
Hate to throw another into the mix but what are your thoughts on the PRC versus the .338 LM? I don't reload at the moment so I really like the cost of the PRC over the LM and the lessened recoil would be nice. On paper it doesn't look like I'll be missing much ballistically since I shoot targets so no need for more knock down power at range. thanks as usual
Nothing in the same space, 338lm just has way more power, and with the right ammo, performs accordingly, factory ammo and what you can get could be a whole different story, that "you" will have to figure for your self, Cheers
One of the big advantages of the prc series is that the rifles from the factory come with chamber/throat dimensions and twist rates that are appropriate for the heavy efficient bullets. A custom 300 win mag with a good twist for heavy bullets takes away much of the prc advantage.
Cheers
this is something i noticed also. 300 win mag was launched as a hunting cartridge , on the shelf you'll find 150, 180 ,190 grain mostly hunting bullets. where as the prc is 205, 212, and 225. factory ammo.
"Custom" = $$$ + time + hassle, a lot of people just want to buy factory gun and factory ammo to perform in elr ... That's where the 300 PRC wins that fight
Thats the one disadvantage of my 300win with standard freebore+slowtwist
How far we've come that now a 230 grain .308 bullet is "light". The thing that makes shooting so much fun is the people like you guys on the crazy extreme who are pushing the envelope. Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.
Thanks Adam, glad you liked, Cheers
As always, perfection and truth... I have been reloading for 50 years, even them there were many wildcats... Now days just happy with hunting/stalking at no more than 100 yards and for that Sako and Nosler cartridges do a great job! At 71, time is slipping away, this would be too much in the way of living 'life to the fullest', too tied up with the laptop and work, reloading no longer in my bucket list... Keep up the amazing work!
Hi Tom, yes you pick what works in the little time we have, lol, glad you like, Cheers and all the best.
just hitting 60 and feeling it. but still chasing that long range heavy hitting hunting load. there are many, but this one is mine :)
Although I'm not a elr shooter. I really enjoy your honest no nonsense information. Warm regards from South Africa
Thanks Henning, Cheers
I've always thought the RUM was very inefficient but never really wondered why. What you've done and are discussing makes perfect sense.
Thanks Man, Cheers
I agree, I feel like rum should have stopped at 338
.300 RUM! I have been long range shooting the RUM for 15+ years, she really has great long legs and exceptional accuracy at distance. Great stuff!
Cheers
How about for hunting?
@John i hunt for fun not for meat
@John sure i do eat it but major reason is the trophy
@John only if you're a sloppy shot. My dad has used 300 RUM for deer for about a decade now, and we've never had a problem. Is it necessary? No, but to worry about "destroying too much meat" is ridiculous, it doesn't that much harder than a WM or Weatherby Mag that it destroys significantly more meat than other comparable cartridges. Its all about your shot. Hell, my cousin blew the front quarter off of a deer with a .308 and a 150 gr bullet.
I bought a Christensen arms 300 PRC just to have something "new" for a hunting rifle. I'm really pleased with the round and how good the factory ammo shoots. I've yet to reload for it but have all the stuff just not the time. I cant say it shoots better than any 300WM I've built as a gunsmith. I think all of the Big 30cal mags are great don't see one being leaps and bounds better then the next one. Great videos!
Cheers Cody, thanks
Your experience was very similar to mine. I worked for a custom rifle manufacturer that performed load development for each gun to achieve peak accuracy. In the 180-230 grain range, both the Win Mag and PRC performed almost identically. Hornady has developed some cool cartridges lately. But I don’t see the 300 PRC giving enough of a performance increase if someone already has an accurate rifle chambered in 300 Win Mag.
Thanks Man, more testing to come, but yep, Cheers
Rem 300 ultra same? Possibly?
I think Hornady was trying to bring that custom 300 accuracy to a SAAMI spec.
The 300 Win Mag can be super accurate out of a custom built rifle, however those rifles aren't really to SAAMI specs. The 300prc adds those longer OALs, tighter twist rates, and tighter tolerances to the SAAMI specs and allows for factory rifles to knock on the door of custom 300 Win Mags in terms of accuracy and performance at fraction of the cost.
Bought a rpr in 300prc a while ago and I love it! Thank you for doing this video and giving your insight.
Cheers Man, Thanks
Great info. Have been looking at Rum vs .300 compared to some of these other calibers. I am a greenie in this area and your info is quite helpful.
Keep it up 👍
Cheers
I cant wait to see your 300 norma test! I love mine in the 250 & 220.
Thanks Matt, Cheers
Wow what a wealth of R&D info! You saved me a ton of guesswork. Subscribed 👍
Cheers
Great video Mark.
Insightful and considerate as usual.
Nice to see someone "shooting" for objectivity.
Cheers Mark, thanks
Finally, its a pleasure to hear the truth - which is as you stated sir - it's all largely been done before and done well and the new stuff is largely sales driven. While components have improved there's really not a lot of new stuff that qualifies as "innovation". Nice to see someone stepping up and calling it the way it is! Cheers
Thanks Harold, glad you liked, Cheers
The thing is if you are stuck with SAAMI specs. That means a 300 Win mag with a 1 in 10" twist & a .314" freebore dia. The specs for 300 PRC are 1 in 8.5" & a ..3085 freebore dia. If you are shooting a SAAMI spec rifle, the 300 PRC will step up. Great work,I really enjoy you're channel.🏟🎀⬜🇨🇮🇺🇸
Cheers
For Mark... that advantage is useless since all of his rifles are custom rifles. For the average shooter that wants to casually shoot long range... sure the 300 PRC is built for that. But any serious ELR shooter isn't going to buy a factory rifle. So the 300 PRC has no advantage over a 300 Win mag, 300 RUM, 300 Norma or 30-378 Weatherby.
sub .5 moa group at 2700 yards... no biggy, it's just another day with MarkandSam AfterWork.
Thanks Bjorn, Cheers
Big fan. Very informative and unbiased reviews. I appreciate your input backed by real testing.
Thanks Man, Cheers
I was devastated last week when I got a call saying my 300 winmag isn't coming to next year. So I cancelled the order and found a 300 PRC in a chassis 26 inch 1/8 twist and bought it lol. Not quite sure what I'm in for but I'll find out Friday. Cheers Mark
Cheers Paul
PRC is just more hype by you know who.....I'll stick with my 300RUM.
Wow you summed it up perfect by the end! When it comes to .308" it's ALL been done before. If you can't find a 30cal cartridge to fit your need then your need is not with 30cal bullets. You were trying so hard to be as neutral as anyone could possibly be but your integrity got the best of you and you stood behind the data points gathered by the dedication of your lovely spotter and yourself. Canada 🇨🇦loves you guys!
Thanks Man, glad you liked the video, and yes gets a bit tricky to keep it level, lol, Cheers
You are one of the most brilliant guys I have heard on UA-cam.
Have you ever done videos on how barrel burning is caused by incomplete combustion, not the speed of the bullet, as people seem to believe? Even more, the new military 80,000 psi round will burn barrels less due to the faster burning of powders.
Also, have you ever done a video on how a bullet that is not fully stabilized will spiral out to 100 yards before it settles down?
Thanks Corey, yes topics we have covered, but not specific videos, glad you like, Cheers
Thank you! So many don’t understand the infinite amount of cartridges already in existence. They obviously have never heard of names like Lott, Roberts, Ackley, etc. New cartridges are basically renamed wildcats or tweaked original versions to have more efficiency or new projectiles.
Cheers
I added up all of the 30 cal I could find a couple of years ago and I really can't remember but I know it was way over 100- An old time gunsmith I am friends with agreed with me that the only reason they keep developing new cartridges is to sell new guns and new ammo-how many 30-06's does one person want or need? there is really no need for anything else-although I was 50 before I ever bought one and I still mainly use a 7mm mag but I would be entirely satisfied with my dads first 30-06 that I finally got-a HVA mauser action 30-06 that weighs 6 pounds and kicks like hell but it has killed more deer and elk than I can remember
A 250 in a 30 cal bullet... something else for me to think about, thanks Mark. My shooting buddy and I have a saying, "just one more thing..." At any rate, thanks for the episode, interesting as always!
Yep, always just one more thing, lol, Cheers
Nice video mate 👌
The main reason I went the 300prc was for the heavier factory ammo offerings from Hornady 👌
Cheers Tony, Thanks
I'm just now getting started in LR shooting. Picked up a Remington Long Range in .300 RUM. My load work is starting with the 225 ELD-M.
Bit of a thumper to start long range with, have fun, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork going with a clamp on brake until I shoot this barrel out.
If you do design your own cartridge I will be on the waiting list for dies, cases and a barrel immediately if not sooner
Lol, Cheers
Always a wealth of information. Thank you.
Thanks Steve
My .300 PRC is a Savage Precision Mod 110. I put a Steiner scope on it and its far better than I am. The only ammo ive used in it is the Hornady 225 ELD match and Berger 205 gr Elite Hunter hollow points. I found the Hornady shoots a bit better and faster for me but Im not shooting the distances you are. Here in Tennessee its mountain peak to mountain peak which is "generally" 1000+ yards (meters in your case) so its not an extreme distance. Love the video a lot of knowledge!!!
Cheers Man
@@markandsamafterwork thank you
I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and viewpoints. I have to agree with you that a lot of the new cartridges are treading on ground already captured...with few exceptions. IMHO
Yep, lol, Cheers
mark, wesome video, very informative, honest and not trying to sell a product. I’ve been watching your channel for a while now and honestly, your opinion and experience I value And respect more than a lot of other folks I watch.
I almost bought a PRC over a WM, but you now got me looking back at the WM and now the RUM. I prefer the heavier projectiles on anything over 223/556 calibers.
Just in case she doesn’t know, let Same know she’s a great spotter, My wife is in the army training how to control and drop heavy ordnance and told her she’s gonna be my spotter when she gets out and we go LR/ELR shooting.
Y’all keep up the good work. Looking forward to more videos and testing.
\0 (that’s a wave) cheers good sir
Thanks Man, glad you like them and sounds like a good back ground for a spotter to work from, all the very best to both of you, Cheers
really glad I watched this video. I am having a really hard time balancing all the pros and cons for my purpose between 7mm RM, 7mm SAUM, 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, 300 WM etc... back to the drawing board lol
Lol, Cheers
Mark, great content as usual and I appreciate your honesty in your comments. It just shows how some companies think they have just come up with the best cartridge ever then you put them right back in their place with some real life facts. I think there is a lot of people out there that would like to find out more about the 300NM. I know the military are looking into a 1:8 twist 26” barrel configuration. What length and twist rate have you chosen for your 300NM project? What barrel manufacturer have you chosen?
I have used the 230's for many years, but the 250's also run very well, all explained in the video, more to test in the coming years, as for barrels, I haven't seen any real shooting differences amongst any quality barrel makers, just use what I can get for the project I am on, Cheers
I have shared this video to my friends. Thank you for sharing your data. It is great to hear about empirical evidence over everyone’s speculations.
Thanks Man, Cheers
In the words of jack sparrow: “if it doesn’t work, use more rum”
Lol, Cheers
Preferably, OP rum
Awesome video from Colorado USA. Just bought a Christenson Arms 300 PRC. I hope you get an elk soon.
Cheers
I suspect that you'll be correct about the Norma, it's sort of their metier -- light bullets for caliber, moving at high velocities. It only makes sens that the case shape would be optimized for that.
We'll see, Thanks Tom, Cheers
Ive been hunting walrus for 20 years with my 300 rum remington 700 26 barrel. Only shoit 180s. Preferably barnes ttsx
Cheers
Where the .300 PRC really shines is in factory rifles, the chmaber tolerances are tighter than the factory win mag chambers. And most of the .300 PRC factory rifles have the twist rate to take advantage of heavier projectiles.
Cheers
Perspective. I think Hornady really wanted to develop an off the shelf, inexpensive Long Range large caliber and they did just that. Most off the shelf factory rifles are shooting the either 212 or 225's very well. At $45 box you get accuracy, reasonable performance and a caliber that retains plenty of energy at 1000yds. Its hard to get all of those same features off the shelf with the 300 win and 300 RUM across the spectrum like the PRC is doing. For the reloader, you are I would agree its just another cartridge.
Hi Tim, as said in the video, this is about ELR, but yes the of the shelf rifles would be s decent thing and as said they will work well with the lighter or more regular weight bullets, agreed. Still mainly about sales, but if looking for a 300 magnum a good option, but maybe not the new magic option that some might presume, lol, Cheers
Hi Mark and Sam! I would suggest adding the 300 Weatherby (really the original commercial 300 Mag) to the comparison. Be very interesting to see how it would match up with the other in this class.
Cheers
Yes! Would love to see you do a 300 Weatherby Magnum comparison!
Nicely done. Thanks for putting this out
Cheers
Awesome video. You’re starting to be my go-to for real world experience. I bought a Remmy 300 RUM that I thought to use as my ELR rifle, and I see that you’re using a longer barrel. Mine is a 26” Sendero but I’m thinking of going to a heavier 30” contour. Also, I was thinking of going to a 300 PRC but you’re saying the 250gr works really well with the RUM. Maybe I should just stick with the RUM, then?
Well, I do not make recommendations, always too many personal details involved, but there is lots explained in the videos, hope it helps, Cheers
It's impossible to thumbs down your videos
Thanks Jason, Cheers
"Most of the stuff has already been done, and done quite well." Could you send this quote to Hornady please! 😉 Stay safe Stay fun🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Lol, thanks Man, Cheers
Hahaha ain't that the truth.
I think the PRC is the ideal factory chambering though. If you get a custom rifle then probably not much point though
Don't think Hornady is about ready to stop innovating, or sitting on its butt selling only the stuff that's already been done.
But I think the innovation have come moreso in the handgun ammunition designs in the last decade than rifle stuff.
Show me on the doll where Hornady hurt you.🤣🤣🤣
Just curious. I'm moving back to Sth. Australia from the USA in a few months, having lived in the States for quite some years. I used to be on friendly terms with some of the station owners up north in SA, and with all the camels running amok I would't mind getting into some camel shooting. I know in the past that the 270 was often the go-to for property owners dealing with camels, but all I've been reading is that the animals have become quite skittish with all the government-sponsored culling and are hard to approach in open country. I was originally going to use a ruger 375 on what is, to all intents and purposes, a moose-sized animal, but I'm wondering if the longer range capabilities of the 300 PRC might not be a better fit under the circumstances?
Not the sort info I provide, but, as always, ask folks that do that sort hunting, they will know what's best, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork So you peddle gun ballistics and shoot metal targets - got it. Most gun 'experts' actually have some experience hunting with the guns and ammunition they hype or test. I guess you just shoot at the Olympics.
For out of the box rifle with factory ammo a cva cascade "long range hunter" in 300 PRC is hard to beat for it's intended purpose. When you go custom & hand loads it's a different story
Thanks Man
be waiting to see how the 300prc does with the heaver bullets thanks for all your info
We have a video with the 250's, not really the sweet spot for the PRC, Cheers
Great info, much appreciated. Im going to be building a 300prc pretty soon. Id like to try and make a few hits at 2000yards.
Cheers
Great video . Is there anyone offering the 300 H&H MAGNUM ANYMORE ? IN A HUNTING PLATFORM ?
Thanks, and maybe ask at some of the channels that sell firearms, Cheers
The 300 prc can be found in a browning x bolt hells canyon with brake. Probably only kick like a 30-06 with this setup. I'm thinking of going to this caliber for a do it all gun and I like reloading. Would you consider this round if you don't yet have a 300 wm?
My thoughts are in the video, will know more soon, Cheers
Yes
Hey M&S. Looking forward to the follow up video of the 300 PRC, Win Mag and Norma.
Cheers
After hearing your observations around 7:30 about case efficiency being dependent on bullet weight, I'm wondering if a powder with a different, slower burn rate in the PRC would fix the problem you describe?
Of course, and you could do the same with the win mag and so on.....thing is I don't describe a problem, I point out a comparison, all up the PRC works just fine, the problem is folks wanting it to be a little more than it is, lol, Cheers
What powder do you use for your hot loaded 300 win-mag rounds?
Excellent video! Thank you for the information.
I see no reason to change from 300 win-mag. Hot loads with 220 gr seated long do magic at distance.
Awesome, Cheers
I use h1000, 3080 fps with barnes 200 lrx out of win mag
Great over view of the cartridges, thank you!
Cheers Charles, Thanks
It all about making factory ammo shot real well with sami specs is only real big advantage to 300 win mag just question is if it takes off and ammo gets cheaper with popularity is there a reason to buy a new 300 wsm
Cheers
Mark, what is the twist rate of your 300RUM you are using for the 250 grain bullets? After watching and rewatching your video regarding twist rates, I'm assuming that it is a 1-10" twist rate. When you check their website, they suggest a tighter twist rate but, I have to believe, after shooting a 230gr bullet 3543 yards, they're wrong with their advice.???
1 in 9, cheers
Great video looking forward to more testing on these
Cheers
ADG Brass. I dumped all of my Hornady, after 1 firing I had a LOT that became loose in the primer pocket. Hornady brass is not good, even a little.
Thanks Garrett, not a problem I have had, even at high pressures, but yes the nature of the brass I have seen over the years is a little inconsistency for sure, Cheers
This is all very interesting. I've been looking at all the varieties of 300 cartridges and wondering what would I choose for LR/ELR. Looking forward to your conclusions.
Cheers
hypothesis on short fat case vs long skinny (and performance of accompanying bullet weight):
pressure curve - short fat = quicker pressure spike and drop (more punch vs push), which "works" for a comparatively lighter bullet but runs out of oomf with the heavy's.
tall thin = similar pressure jump but much slower pressure drop (more push vs punch) which lends to better [exiting bullet concentricity] and since the heavier bullet of same caliber normally has better BC you end up with better consistency at range.
**In the way of designing your own cartridge - Id like to see (if it can even be done) a cone-like shaped case that is 'fat' on primer end and 'skinnier' on bullet end...get good punch and also decent push. Benefit being you could fit the heavier bullet in shorter OAL while still getting enough speed to take full advantage of heavier bullet BC. 5-15 degree taper from base to neck of case, or perhaps a "double-neck/shoulder" case if thats 'easier' engineering wise to make.
Am I talking gibberish? lol - cant know for sure til ya try it out!
Cheers
Seems to me that what your tests and others seem to say is that further work in bullet consistentcy is where the focus of the manufactures should be pointed.
Thanks William, yes they are all getting better at that, still room for improvement, Cheers
Hey there Mark. Just coming back from double spinal surgery. I was happy to be able to concentrate on your presentations. A question about powders, I would never ask for weights of course, but if you could let me know what powders you are using? That would let me do some calculations on my own. By the way, I was really excited with the video of that group you shot. EXCELLENT! Cheers.
Hi Aaron, I am use AR2225 in all these, would like to test some of the other slower powders, but we have little to no access, may move some details around but fundamentals will stay the same, Cheers
Vita vori N570
The PRC interested me primarily because of that 250 grain A-tip...So that is great preliminary testing information to know. I don't have a reloading set up so I'm at the mercy of factory options and Hornady hasn't put that 250 grainer into a complete cartridge yet. Just love the concept of a bullet with a higher bc than the .338 LM with less recoil and same performance. Great video.
Thanks Man, Cheers FYI, no matter how you set up a 300PRC will never have the outright performance of a well set up 338LM, but yes will have less recoil.....
@@markandsamafterwork What if you had a 1:8 twist in your PRC? Think that would give you the performance increase in that case for the heavier bullets?
Twist? no that does not give better performance......so no, but keep in mind these is just what we have found so far, maybe watch video again, no twist issues, just not quite as much speed available as in comparison to the win mag when running the heavy bullets, still OK but all pretty thoroughly explained in the video, Cheers
I would like to see a vid on scope mounting ...pre and post sight in without wasting rounds
Cheers
This a very late comment, but I am wondering if the twist rate on your 300 Mag is why it is delivering or was the default twist rate working that well ?
I enjoy your very deliberate way to highlight pros and cons.
1:9, always select twist rate to suit bullets you intend to use, we have videos on that subject too, cheers
Mark have you tried the 338 Lapua yet, i have read they are unreal accurate !
Well accurate, all good cartridges are as accurate as each other, and yes we have many videos on the channel with several 338lm's, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork thank you sir for the response i will look at more videos of yours it is nice to see someone that listen's thank you very much!
Always insightful, great work!
Cheers
When you do more videos on this will you share what velocities you are getting with each cartridge and bullet weight? I’m curious to see how they look against each other in that perspective as well between the 4 cartridges
I have shown all these details in previous videos, but when we do the Norma we will compare again, Cheers
I would also like to see a video from you guys 300 norma mag vs 300 prc
Not close, the Norma like the Rum have a lot more power, Cheers
i am thinking of building an ELR (around a mile) rifle, and i want to try it in 300RUM. Can you show us or list here your test on that cartage please.
We have videos on the Rum, Check them out, Cheers
Love my 300PRC in 225gr Hornady. I have an MPA set up and a Nightforce optic. It’s a phenomenal and versatile set up. I can literally shoot it all day. This was really great Mark. I have friends who shoot the 300 RUM and love it. For me, I’m extremely satisfied with the 300 PRC.
Thanks John, Cheers
300RUM! Hands down the best dam catridge out there!
Cheers
How do you think it compares to the 300 weatherby? Thanks!
What's your thoughts and take on the 338-378 Weatherby Magnum?
We have not used or tested, sorry, Cheers
I had different results than yours, but I am using Reloader 26. Which is the same powder Hornady uses for the factory load as well. I found 300 PRC had about 5% more run and powder capacity than my Winchester 300 win mag brass as well.
Maybe watch the rest of the video, because as said in the video, we expect to see that when using lighter bullets, below 230's I expect the PRC to has slight advantages of the Win Mag.
Also if using a 24" to 26" barrel I would not expect the Win Mag to perform as well as it did with the 250's, all about the way the case design uses the powder and optimizing the chamber to what suits each of them the best. Cheers
MarkandSam AfterWork I shot most 225 but had a hard time spotting missing beyond 2,000 yards. It was easier with the 250gr but I am running 1-8 twist instead.
Yep, that makes sense of your results, I expect similar when we use the 220's, have fun, Cheers and all the best.
That's all fine but what about the weatherby 300/378?
How does it go?
And how does the shoulder of the cartridge effect it's combustion characteristics?
Be nice to build them all, but $$$$…..Cheers
Is it possible to look at throwing a 300 Dakota into the mix as well to see how that compares to the other 300 magnum cartridges.
You are welcome to sponsor a build like that, but not in our current budget sorry, Cheers
Wondering if you guys have tested the new 230 grain sierra match kings(#2251). They are very long and have a fairly high BC. I think the G1 is over 0.8 and they say a twist of 8 or faster is required to stabilize. They were going on sale here in the US for about 55 cents each which is a little more expensive than the ELDM but cheaper than the bergers. I wonder how they perform at ELR
No we have not, but they sound good, give them a try, Cheers
Hi Mark as others have already mentioned I would like to see you test the .300 weatherby mag against all the cartridges you have in this video .
I have been following you for years now and have learnt a lot from you . I'm stepping up into elr shooting so thats why i ask the question above .
Thanks David, if we get the financial support we need then we would be happy too, Cheers
So the 300 PRC must be similar /close to 300WSM. From what I can gather the win mag and WSM equal velocity around 200gr, and after that the win mag comes away with the bigger capacity
I haven't tested the WSM, so couldn't really say, but capacity is not the issue here, Cheers, Cheers
Always a pleasure to listen to u. U are very knowledgeable on everything. I got a custom 300 rum. 1-10 twist. 31 5 krieger 1.25 straight on a Remington ultra mag action. I got the burger 245 grain that I haven't tried. Can u help me and what do u think.
Sounds great and should all work, but not completely sure they will work in that twist, you will have test and see, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork thanks. Will do. Happy shooting.
Cheers
Do you prefer the 250 A-Tip over the 230 A-Tip for the 300 RUM for 1000 yards - 1 mile ? ..... they’re both pretty heavy.
Depends on all the details, some info in the video, more to come after some more testing, Cheers
Thanks for the reply.
30 inch barrel with a 9 twist.
I was thinking the 230 Atip would be a good match out to 1760yds.
Look forward to the coming videos. 👍
Yeh they would work, Cheers
Really curious how Lapua brass works for the PRC with heavy bullets.
Cheers
Mark, you should build one rifle, in any caliber and sell it...ive talked about you to alot of my buddies here in montana, and actually just sent this video over to one of them...he wants a PRC for this elk season... but theres alot of people i know who watch your videos and all of them would love to have a rifle built by you, weather they can afford it is another story...just an idea..
Not in the near future, but who knows maybe some time in the future, Cheers
I’ve found a lot of other PRC shooters touting the 230 A-Tips & 245 Berger’s as the best combo for 300 PRC largely with Reloder 33 & N570 @ 2900-3000 FPS.
Do you still think the 220 Berger is the best suited projectile?
Yep
I ran into a guy that said he runs a brass tube in his carriage that carry the primer strike forward to brun powder backwards. Does thus sound insane or something that has benefits?
I haven't tested, but from research and personal thoughts, I feel unlikely to change much, Cheers
So in your opinion, stepping into a new caliber outside of .308 for medium range hunting engagement, which cartridge of the 3 would you reccomend? Do you think the belted case matters when reloading? Thank you for the video and the great comparisons.
Hi Ryan, glad you liked the video, and well that would be a questions for your local hunters, not something I could answer, and no I have no issue with reloading belted cases, Cheers
Mark, been following you for 4 plus years and it’s great to see how you have grown and been such an amazing educator! Quick question for you, I think I am ready to “graduate” from my Masterpiece Arms 6.5 PRC that I have had great times with. Curious on how your thinking has evolved since you made this video over a year ago on the 300 PRC. Thanks so much for all your hard work in your channel, it’s been one of my “Go To”s”. Cheers
All later efforts yield same results, cheers
@@markandsamafterwork thanks Mark. Ok well I am going to start mulling it over and figuring out what configuration. Cheers!
😊
Try some 300 prc brass from ADG.
As said, found brass performance to be OK, but if we do a lot more with the PRC will try, Cheers
I would like ADG brass test also
What about the 30-378?
More power again, we have tested. on the channel, Cheers
what is the barrel twist on the 300RUM?
1:9
How does the 300wsm stand out of this lot as it is a really winner in f class where 300 win/Norma/rum/prc is not really seen there
This testing is as said about ELR, in F class they are not shooting the same distances, so not using the heavier bullets nor needing the horse power, so in some fashions not comparable, beyond that not a cartridge we have tested, Cheers
MarkandSam AfterWork would you ever test one as it’s a short fat case
We have tested the 6.5 SAUM, but can not simply build any cartridge to test, we don't have a unlimited budget, but if sponsored would more than happy to, Cheers
MarkandSam AfterWork this is very true money holds use all up great work and great shooting
Cheers
Great findings. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers
Very interesting. Love the videos.
Cheers
I need to try the 220 gr in my 30 Nosler.
Cheers
IMO the only reason to go with the .300 PRC is to not deal with the belted case.
Cheers
Belted case does not change anything if you headspace off the shoulder instead of the belt..
good video , very curious about the 300 norma project
Cheers
Mark, is your R700 actions stock, or you your have them trued?
We always true if changing a barrel, too easy to do then so just do it, Cheers
Hello, Mark. Pls tell your opinion about new 245 vs well known 250 bullet. What is better for ULR shooting? Thank you.
As said, I haven't shot the yet.....
We will be waiting your tests. Have a good wind)
Cheers
Hey mark and Sam I'm really eager to see how your Norma goes Im looking at building one next I currently own a 300wm runs really well for hunting and target shooting with my current load 212gr eldx but I do find they are an inconsistent bullet. I was wondering how many rounds you normally go through on your win mag before you notice major accuracy issues? I'm at about 1300 and hasn't really opened up much at all am wondering because want to go Berger otm 230 on my re barrel.
Hi, depends on how you shoot, I haven't worn a barrel out yet, probably up around 2k shots on my first winmag barrel, but changed for testing different features, same as always here, lots of testing, lots of barrels, but as said haven't changed one for wear yet, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork ohh ok thanks for that I might just bite the bullet and rebarrel now as the 1 in 10 just won't cut it for the 230gr I don't think thanks for the response mate hope you guys are all well over that side of the Tasman cheers for all the really amazing content 👍
Cheers
Hate to throw another into the mix but what are your thoughts on the PRC versus the .338 LM? I don't reload at the moment so I really like the cost of the PRC over the LM and the lessened recoil would be nice. On paper it doesn't look like I'll be missing much ballistically since I shoot targets so no need for more knock down power at range. thanks as usual
Nothing in the same space, 338lm just has way more power, and with the right ammo, performs accordingly, factory ammo and what you can get could be a whole different story, that "you" will have to figure for your self, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork I figured as much. I know factory stuff isn't your game. Sorry for the off topic question.
Cheers
Thank you for another great video.
Cheers