I agree - Walt's "randomness" is grand to watch but equally the videos he has produced that have been focused on issues such as case assembly or the series he did with the Clone MS660s have been excellent viewing also. The bottom line is that Walt makes good content!
Thank you for this ! Been working in the woods for over 3 decades now and no when a saw has a wee problem ie sucking air in ! Never did i no this trick always gone for replacing the easy rubber bits first ie fuel pipes carb boots and so on until i eventually find the problem ! This is so handy to know ! Thank you mega chuffed with this video
Just used your method yesterday for the very first time and found a suspected air leak - cracked impulse line at the crankcase nipple. Another diag tool added to my collection! Thanks so much!
Thanks to you and your videos, I used that trick a few years ago to diagnose a 576xp that I bought and wouldn't stay running. A quick diagnosis but a little longer to fix. Thank you for taking the time to share some of your wisdom in your videos
Bless you for taking the time to bring us the details that you have learned over the years about working on chainsaws. I am just starting out working on our chainsaws. Please keep making these educational videos!!!
Wow! I learned SO much from this video! Thanks so much for rummaging back through all those vids to find the nuggets and put them all together! Just as I was about to comment, "Those are all for running machines, but what about non-running?", you inserted the non-running one and how you went about testing everything else to eliminate the variables! I just subscribed and rang that bell! I've been watching UA-cam videos for 18 straight months at the rate of 2-6 hours/day, 7 days a week, to learn small engine work. I've come a long way but of course continue to have questions and increase my knowledge base as well as try to refine my diagnostic skills. I'd already seen this method of testing for leaks before but hadn't tried it because the machines I was working on were non-runners. I've learned all about pressure/vacuum testing and do that all the time, but if there's a way to shorten that process I'm all for it! So far I've restored or repaired chainsaws (Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Makita, Poulan, Craftsman, Homelite, etc), a string trimmer, a snowblower, a lawn tractor, a wood chipper, a leaf blower, a pressure washer, lawn mowers and who knows what else. ;-) I've got a garage and large yard full of free or cheap (I don't buy any more - I only did that in the beginning) equipment I've acquired to flip, but now I'm getting in repairs as well. I have some favorites I've gotten for free that I want to work on but can't seem to get the time! At 75 it's all about how much energy I can summon up on any given day. ;-) Thanks again! Rein Ciarfella (Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA)
Absolutely great video! I appreciate the task centered and searchable approach. Of the chainsaw UA-camrs I watch yours are my favorites! Keep blest my friend.
I always appreciate the troubleshooting videos, thanks for making the effort, Walt! I have an old, orange and white, 61 Rancher, (looks just like one I saw in one of your last videos) that won't stay idling after it's been working a bit. Tried the Brakekleen in a couple spots before, but judging by what I just saw I think I need to try spraying in a few more locations!
Is one of the symptoms of an air leak on a chainsaw where it will start and idle but will die when the trigger is pulled (compression is 160 psi and carb kit installed)? I have a Stihl 026 that has this problem.
Hey, I just came across your video, because my husqvarna 372xpg is idling way too high. I have the carb tuned to the factory settings and when I spray carb cleaner at the transition from the carb and the manifold the saw stalls. What do you recommend?
Ever seen an airleak after about 15 to 20 minutes of working? Sthil fs76 weedeater after 15 minutes of work it has trouble going from idle back up to working rpm does better if i apply the choke it takes the hesitation-stumble out. It idles fine hot or cold Enjoyed the video I'm a subsriber now!
Very good video , that's gonna save a lot of people some headaches I'm sure , brakeclean , now I gotta grab a can of that for the craftsman that acts possessed !!!
It will shut the saw off there as well. :) AND I got snagged with that exact issue on a saw very recently . those 361 clones where a nightmare with all the leaks they had. Doesn't matter how the brake clean gets in, if enough does the saw stops. A great tool for finding issues.
HI WALT ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS WOULD A 572XP MAKE A GOOD FIREWOOD SAW ,I WOULD MOSTLY BE CUTTING MEDIUM SIZED MAPLE AND BIRCH ,ANY IMPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED THANKYOU
Yes, on a two stroke the crank case is part of the "pump" drawing fuel into the motor, then when the piston heads down compressing the gasses in the crank case then pushing them up the transfers to the combustion chamber. WHEN the piston heads back increasing the volume of the crank case that draws mix in through the carb....if there are leaks in the bearings seals or some other place, air will we drawn in leaning the mixture creating issues....spray brake clean around and when a spot pulled the brake clean into the crank case and that now contaminated mix heads up to the combustion chamber...it won't light off so the motor stops
@@afleetcommand Gotcha. Yeah I’ve seen guys on UA-cam before get out there leak down kits. One guy said they were about a hundred dollars. It’s also time consuming to hook them up. This is an awesome little trick and I’ve never heard of this before. This was helpful. Thanks man!
So is this a serendipitous discovery someone made while "cleaning" their saw one day while it happened to be running or is this a longstanding entry in the verbal DIY home diagnostic handbook?
Ha! No this is an old practice learned from the dirt bike days.....bike isn't running right.... check the base gasket & intake boot. A "Field" mechanic approach brought to saws
some thoughts/questions on the common PTO side bearing failure. I know you run your chainsaws regularly and hard. No doubt one would assume this is not a one off kind of failure and likely has a root cause. Here are my guesses: a. poor engineering. Maybe that crank seal just isn't reliable. (FYI: pressing a bearing seal is far more precise than smacking on into position. It matters!) b. out of balance crank, rod and/or piston ...otherwise poor manufacturing quality?. Excessive vibrations from loose tolerances lead to failed bearing seals. This is well documented across a variety of applications. 13K rpm's is nothing to sneeze at. At 3-4 horsepower, that becomes quite a bit of massive rotational force to deal with. c. modifications to the chain sprocket. Example: sprockets that are installed too far out on the outboard side of the crank. Just a few fractions of millimeter is a significant amount of force ...e.g, the lever physics of a rotating mass. I have seen some chainsaws where the sprocket is inboard to the clutch drum, placing the forces closer to the center of enertia. I believe this is a design improvement wrt to reliability. When you place any load far from the center of rotational mass/CG...the bearing experiences serious loading that is "undesirable" and can only be overcome by superior engineering and high quality pristine manufacturing techniques. I suspect most of the mass produced chainsaws really don't go through a really high bar for precision engineering. Just looking at how much play exists with the crank and rod assembly, it appears there is alot of parts that are "VW" level quality. Not much you can do about that, unless you want to actually tool your own parts....maybe there is a market for this. I've heard makita does it better than most. Just what I've heard, never had the opportunity to perform an operation and inspect what makes them so special. d. Excess "play" from sprocket rim to clutch drum "teeth". Inducing heavy vibe. e. speculative: 2 cycle oil is substandard. Meaning maybe the fuel oil is actually breaking down the bearing seals and not providing enough lubricating performance to keep the seal healthy. Synthetic contain any alcohol or other high volatile? f. And then this one: does brake kleen deteriorate bearing seals? I would assume it would not, but maybe it's worth looking in to? for instance, I know there are some brake clean type sprays that are chlorinated, and some that are not. Chlorinated parts cleaners are a big no no in aviation maintenance due to the corrosive effects on seals and other plastique and rubber and synthetic rubber parts. Could it be that the type of parts cleaner is actually causing this failure....or contributing to it? maybe just enough to fail them prematurely? I dunno..these are just guesses. Here are some suggestions: don't use any type of parts cleaner. USE COMPRESSED AIR. You end up with the same results sans the possible bad effect. If there is some kind of air leak, compressed air WILL cause a idle change, you will hear and notice. I have a resuable compressed air can that can take a refill from ordinary compressor. Making it easy to tote around for field use. It's a steel can and is rated to 150 psi. Get about 50 decent squirts. More than enough to be used as a good troubleshoot. In this shop, just use the compressor. You will definitely hear the rpm changes....and if the air leak is significant, probably wind up killing the combustion ratio...same results..you find you problem with compressed air. other suggestions: see what kind of material is used for the bearing seal. What it is exactly.? teflon, impreg steel ceramic, ...I dunno..but it would be interesting to find out what it actually is. Then determine if there are more reliable materials available to replace them. just stray random uttering Peace
I think u have to relax a bit. Brake cleaner isn't going to hurt your seals. And it's not like anyone is going around cleaning their saws with brake cleaner. I'm not even sure how you got there.. 'll test from time to time a build until it's stable and now will test saws coming in the shop. But compressed air directly on your seals is famous for pushing dirt into them. Like the car wash syndrome with dirt bikes. Even if seals were immersed for a period of time in brake clean. That's a non issue! Second all except the aftermarket 372's are customer saws that came to me blown up, not mine saws MINE haven't blown up, how did you get there?? I have never had a OEM saw of mine with a PTO side bearing failure. Ever. The only saws I had that the bearings failed were the Three Test Aftermarket 372 Case builds. The material I believe is not as durable as the OEM castings. All my personal 372's including my 2172 have steel caged bearing and none have failed. In addition to that to my knowledge none of the saws I built or rebuild ever came back with a bearing failure. None. So u have to start your entire premise understanding I probably did 75 percent of the case repair in this area for a while. And that is a very small percentage of those saws sold in this area.. I just get most of the case repairs therefore a high percentage of my repairs ae...case repairs. It's what I specialize at. So it's a bit disproportionate as most dealers simply don't do that work. I did a lot of repair work there for a few years. The reason most failed simply was run time and that was the first place things fail at the end of their life cycle. I see that 70-75cc class the most, with 372x-torq's, 461's , and 575/6 saws with their 6202 sized bearings and those longer taller X-torq pistons. I just report. I can't read all that posting, it makes my head hurt with the perceptions. :)
You need to either be on my Facebook discussion site "Chainsaws & Wood Working" or go point by point, for me to be able to engage and give each concept its due.
I like random. there is really nothing interesting when everything is planned out and mechanical. For chainsaws fanatics, we watch you videos because its interesting...all of it. And because YOU add the human factor. We can all see what you are doing and easily find ourselves doing the same motions and doing the seemingly random things in a days work. What I find interesting is probably more to do with my own appetite for getting things done and the PROCESS, even then mundane, involved in accomplishing a goal. I also have a similar interest in learning better ways to fix things. So don't think for a minute that you NEED to have some elaborate plan before you publish a video. The reality is that you are covering things that pretty much no one else does. Others seem to want a well polished, mechanical production. Not my cup of coffee. I am just guessing, but I suspect my views are shared by many.
@@afleetcommand Friend 372 xp oe when I warm up, I increase the speed and I stop at exactly 14 thousand turns what can it be? . I will set the carburetor as cold for about 13,000 revolutions and when I warm up it will accelerate to 14,000 .......................
Hope all is well..and you havent been battery deceived...also since were not getting younger. Hope you all have truly , in truth...spent time seeking the real Jesus christ, savoir.of man -adam -you -me...fallen man..for mercy in contrition..jhon 3;3-7..kjv...god bless..
I really appreciate the randomness and documenting real life as it comes and goes.
I agree - Walt's "randomness" is grand to watch but equally the videos he has produced that have been focused on issues such as case assembly or the series he did with the Clone MS660s have been excellent viewing also. The bottom line is that Walt makes good content!
I learned the brake clean test from you and have used it as diagnostic tool ever since. Appreciate every video you do. Thanks
Thank you for this !
Been working in the woods for over 3 decades now and no when a saw has a wee problem ie sucking air in ! Never did i no this trick always gone for replacing the easy rubber bits first ie fuel pipes carb boots and so on until i eventually find the problem ! This is so handy to know ! Thank you mega chuffed with this video
Just used your method yesterday for the very first time and found a suspected air leak - cracked impulse line at the crankcase nipple. Another diag tool added to my collection! Thanks so much!
Thanks to you and your videos, I used that trick a few years ago to diagnose a 576xp that I bought and wouldn't stay running. A quick diagnosis but a little longer to fix. Thank you for taking the time to share some of your wisdom in your videos
Bless you for taking the time to bring us the details that you have learned over the years about working on chainsaws.
I am just starting out working on our chainsaws. Please keep making these educational videos!!!
instaBlaster
Wow! I learned SO much from this video! Thanks so much for rummaging back through all those vids to find the nuggets and put them all together! Just as I was about to comment, "Those are all for running machines, but what about non-running?", you inserted the non-running one and how you went about testing everything else to eliminate the variables! I just subscribed and rang that bell!
I've been watching UA-cam videos for 18 straight months at the rate of 2-6 hours/day, 7 days a week, to learn small engine work. I've come a long way but of course continue to have questions and increase my knowledge base as well as try to refine my diagnostic skills. I'd already seen this method of testing for leaks before but hadn't tried it because the machines I was working on were non-runners. I've learned all about pressure/vacuum testing and do that all the time, but if there's a way to shorten that process I'm all for it!
So far I've restored or repaired chainsaws (Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Makita, Poulan, Craftsman, Homelite, etc), a string trimmer, a snowblower, a lawn tractor, a wood chipper, a leaf blower, a pressure washer, lawn mowers and who knows what else. ;-) I've got a garage and large yard full of free or cheap (I don't buy any more - I only did that in the beginning) equipment I've acquired to flip, but now I'm getting in repairs as well. I have some favorites I've gotten for free that I want to work on but can't seem to get the time! At 75 it's all about how much energy I can summon up on any given day. ;-)
Thanks again!
Rein Ciarfella (Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA)
Best video on UA-cam for explanation on crank seals and air leaks. Thank you sir
You have the best videos on UA-cam, Walter!! 💪💪💪
Awesome, thanks. I did this on my 2139 and now need to test my 266xp project, or two
Absolutely great video! I appreciate the task centered and searchable approach. Of the chainsaw UA-camrs I watch yours are my favorites! Keep blest my friend.
I like your videos! I see all of them for a years here in Portugal! Keep going Mr Walt!
Thank you very much!
Brilliant tips and solid advice as usual Walt 🙂👍🇮🇪
How would I get brake kleen under the flywheel if I were to check the flywheel side seal on Stihl 029?
I just did this diagnostic and found a leak on the flywheel side of an old Makita saw. Thanks!
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I learned a lot.
PS, will carb cleaner give the same results?
no, carb cleaner won't work as well :) Think about it for a second :)
Very good diagnostic technic on a pinhc. thanks brother
Have a 40 horse big twin, I need to check on now.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. You made that look easy
Brake kleen is a big time saver for sure
I always appreciate the troubleshooting videos, thanks for making the effort, Walt! I have an old, orange and white, 61 Rancher, (looks just like one I saw in one of your last videos) that won't stay idling after it's been working a bit. Tried the Brakekleen in a couple spots before, but judging by what I just saw I think I need to try spraying in a few more locations!
I learned alot from this video! Thanks walt .
Is one of the symptoms of an air leak on a chainsaw where it will start and idle but will die when the trigger is pulled (compression is 160 psi and carb kit installed)? I have a Stihl 026 that has this problem.
Master at work
Hey,
I just came across your video, because my husqvarna 372xpg is idling way too high. I have the carb tuned to the factory settings and when I spray carb cleaner at the transition from the carb and the manifold the saw stalls. What do you recommend?
Changing the parts in that "transition from the carb and the manifold the saw" ?
Just what i have been looking for, thankyou.
Just brilliant! Thank You!
Ever seen an airleak after about 15 to 20 minutes of working?
Sthil fs76 weedeater after 15 minutes of work it has trouble going from idle back up to working rpm does better if i apply the choke it takes the hesitation-stumble out.
It idles fine hot or cold
Enjoyed the video I'm a subsriber now!
Thanks a bunch.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge
Love the videos, Walt. Keep the fire burning and I'll do the same. Thank you.
Very good video , that's gonna save a lot of people some headaches I'm sure , brakeclean , now I gotta grab a can of that for the craftsman that acts possessed !!!
Bearings don't hold air....only seals do. It might be PLAY in the bearing causing the seal to fail.
My Stihl 066 needs a new crankshaft will the farmertec cranks do the job
Stick to OEM if that saw is anything more than a conversation piece.
And cheep Chinese vacuum and pressure pumps just lost all value. But on the flip side brake clean just went up 2 bucks today ha ha ,thanks Walt.
what if carb sucks brake cleaner in the throttle shaft?
It will shut the saw off there as well. :) AND I got snagged with that exact issue on a saw very recently . those 361 clones where a nightmare with all the leaks they had. Doesn't matter how the brake clean gets in, if enough does the saw stops. A great tool for finding issues.
HI WALT ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS WOULD A 572XP MAKE A GOOD FIREWOOD SAW ,I WOULD MOSTLY BE CUTTING MEDIUM SIZED MAPLE AND BIRCH ,ANY IMPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED THANKYOU
Of course it would, it's a saw that can easily handle pretty much anything under 30 inches.
What makes the saw stall when you shoot the cleaner on it? Does it go into the engine?
Yes, on a two stroke the crank case is part of the "pump" drawing fuel into the motor, then when the piston heads down compressing the gasses in the crank case then pushing them up the transfers to the combustion chamber. WHEN the piston heads back increasing the volume of the crank case that draws mix in through the carb....if there are leaks in the bearings seals or some other place, air will we drawn in leaning the mixture creating issues....spray brake clean around and when a spot pulled the brake clean into the crank case and that now contaminated mix heads up to the combustion chamber...it won't light off so the motor stops
@@afleetcommand Gotcha. Yeah I’ve seen guys on UA-cam before get out there leak down kits. One guy said they were about a hundred dollars. It’s also time consuming to hook them up. This is an awesome little trick and I’ve never heard of this before. This was helpful. Thanks man!
My homelite chainsaw idles very high, I tried to mess with H & L screws but still idles very high??!
Please help if u can. Thanks!
Air leak or constricted fuel line
Great vid.
Will the brake clean degrade the plastic parts on the saw?
No, certainly not used sporadically like that
That was a good video!
Good Stuff....
Mine run fine just wont idle
Probably a stupid question, but if brake clean is flammable why does brake clean stall the engine?
actually a great question, flammable isn't the same as combustible, it's like the gun powder thing, it's the rate of burn.
So is this a serendipitous discovery someone made while "cleaning" their saw one day while it happened to be running or is this a longstanding entry in the verbal DIY home diagnostic handbook?
Ha! No this is an old practice learned from the dirt bike days.....bike isn't running right.... check the base gasket & intake boot. A "Field" mechanic approach brought to saws
WOW. ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW.
Nice.😆 mate 💪💪💪💪💪💪👍👍👌👌
Do anything I love! !!! It😆👍👍 bob😆😆too💪💪
some thoughts/questions on the common PTO side bearing failure.
I know you run your chainsaws regularly and hard. No doubt one would assume this is not a one off kind of failure and likely has a root cause.
Here are my guesses:
a. poor engineering. Maybe that crank seal just isn't reliable. (FYI: pressing a bearing seal is far more precise than smacking on into position. It matters!)
b. out of balance crank, rod and/or piston ...otherwise poor manufacturing quality?. Excessive vibrations from loose tolerances lead to failed bearing seals. This is well documented across a variety of applications. 13K rpm's is nothing to sneeze at. At 3-4 horsepower, that becomes quite a bit of massive rotational force to deal with.
c. modifications to the chain sprocket. Example: sprockets that are installed too far out on the outboard side of the crank. Just a few fractions of millimeter is a significant amount of force ...e.g, the lever physics of a rotating mass. I have seen some chainsaws where the sprocket is inboard to the clutch drum, placing the forces closer to the center of enertia. I believe this is a design improvement wrt to reliability. When you place any load far from the center of rotational mass/CG...the bearing experiences serious loading that is "undesirable" and can only be overcome by superior engineering and high quality pristine manufacturing techniques. I suspect most of the mass produced chainsaws really don't go through a really high bar for precision engineering. Just looking at how much play exists with the crank and rod assembly, it appears there is alot of parts that are "VW" level quality. Not much you can do about that, unless you want to actually tool your own parts....maybe there is a market for this. I've heard makita does it better than most. Just what I've heard, never had the opportunity to perform an operation and inspect what makes them so special.
d. Excess "play" from sprocket rim to clutch drum "teeth". Inducing heavy vibe.
e. speculative: 2 cycle oil is substandard. Meaning maybe the fuel oil is actually breaking down the bearing seals and not providing enough lubricating performance to keep the seal healthy. Synthetic contain any alcohol or other high volatile?
f. And then this one: does brake kleen deteriorate bearing seals? I would assume it would not, but maybe it's worth looking in to? for instance, I know there are some brake clean type sprays that are chlorinated, and some that are not. Chlorinated parts cleaners are a big no no in aviation maintenance due to the corrosive effects on seals and other plastique and rubber and synthetic rubber parts. Could it be that the type of parts cleaner is actually causing this failure....or contributing to it? maybe just enough to fail them prematurely? I dunno..these are just guesses.
Here are some suggestions: don't use any type of parts cleaner. USE COMPRESSED AIR. You end up with the same results sans the possible bad effect. If there is some kind of air leak, compressed air WILL cause a idle change, you will hear and notice. I have a resuable compressed air can that can take a refill from ordinary compressor. Making it easy to tote around for field use. It's a steel can and is rated to 150 psi. Get about 50 decent squirts. More than enough to be used as a good troubleshoot. In this shop, just use the compressor. You will definitely hear the rpm changes....and if the air leak is significant, probably wind up killing the combustion ratio...same results..you find you problem with compressed air.
other suggestions: see what kind of material is used for the bearing seal. What it is exactly.? teflon, impreg steel ceramic, ...I dunno..but it would be interesting to find out what it actually is. Then determine if there are more reliable materials available to replace them.
just stray random uttering
Peace
I think u have to relax a bit. Brake cleaner isn't going to hurt your seals. And it's not like anyone is going around cleaning their saws with brake cleaner. I'm not even sure how you got there.. 'll test from time to time a build until it's stable and now will test saws coming in the shop. But compressed air directly on your seals is famous for pushing dirt into them. Like the car wash syndrome with dirt bikes. Even if seals were immersed for a period of time in brake clean. That's a non issue!
Second all except the aftermarket 372's are customer saws that came to me blown up, not mine saws MINE haven't blown up, how did you get there?? I have never had a OEM saw of mine with a PTO side bearing failure. Ever. The only saws I had that the bearings failed were the Three Test Aftermarket 372 Case builds. The material I believe is not as durable as the OEM castings. All my personal 372's including my 2172 have steel caged bearing and none have failed. In addition to that to my knowledge none of the saws I built or rebuild ever came back with a bearing failure. None. So u have to start your entire premise understanding I probably did 75 percent of the case repair in this area for a while. And that is a very small percentage of those saws sold in this area.. I just get most of the case repairs therefore a high percentage of my repairs ae...case repairs. It's what I specialize at. So it's a bit disproportionate as most dealers simply don't do that work. I did a lot of repair work there for a few years. The reason most failed simply was run time and that was the first place things fail at the end of their life cycle. I see that 70-75cc class the most, with 372x-torq's, 461's , and 575/6 saws with their 6202 sized bearings and those longer taller X-torq pistons. I just report. I can't read all that posting, it makes my head hurt with the perceptions. :)
You need to either be on my Facebook discussion site "Chainsaws & Wood Working" or go point by point, for me to be able to engage and give each concept its due.
I like random. there is really nothing interesting when everything is planned out and mechanical. For chainsaws fanatics, we watch you videos because its interesting...all of it. And because YOU add the human factor. We can all see what you are doing and easily find ourselves doing the same motions and doing the seemingly random things in a days work. What I find interesting is probably more to do with my own appetite for getting things done and the PROCESS, even then mundane, involved in accomplishing a goal. I also have a similar interest in learning better ways to fix things.
So don't think for a minute that you NEED to have some elaborate plan before you publish a video. The reality is that you are covering things that pretty much no one else does. Others seem to want a well polished, mechanical production. Not my cup of coffee.
I am just guessing, but I suspect my views are shared by many.
Thank you for both your feed back and support....:)
@@afleetcommand Friend 372 xp oe when I warm up, I increase the speed and I stop at exactly 14 thousand turns what can it be? . I will set the carburetor as cold for about 13,000 revolutions and when I warm up it will accelerate to 14,000 .......................
After 20 years just tore apart ms 360 sthil and replaced everything.
That saw deserved it,
I'm sorry :)
Hope all is well..and you havent been battery deceived...also since were not getting younger. Hope you all have truly , in truth...spent time seeking the real Jesus christ, savoir.of man -adam -you -me...fallen man..for mercy in contrition..jhon 3;3-7..kjv...god bless..