Cancelling David O McKay At BYU Hawaii
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
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The famous David O. McKay mural is apparently on the chopping block. But suspect reasons for its destruction are plenty. Many on and off campus believe the move is political. This is an intriguing and meaningful story.
No room has been allowed for donors who want to preserve the mural which could be removed as soon as June.
The mural is an iconic tie to the legacy and heritage of Polynesian members of the church. Imagine losing the "This Is The Place" monument!
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My name is Jon Lingwall. My grandfather Harold Boe was called by the LDS Church as a labor missionary to install this Mosaic Mural among many other tile/masonry projects both on and off campus. This Mosaic Mural can be preserved just like the Provo, Utah temple was after most of it was destroyed by the fire. IT CAN BE DONE and I stand ready for the call.
Thank You.
Jon, loved your interview and context you provide, as well as shocked to learn of the dismissal you've faced in your willingness to help. Cheering for you to contine, preserve, and honor your grandfather's crucial work!
Jon are you in Utah or Hawaii?
Can we start a petition somehow to send to the Administration at BYU Hawaii or to the Church Headquarters to preserve the mural?
@LisaPFrampton what does that have to do with this?!
I am not LDS, but I have the impression that the era of McKay's presidency was one which presented your church in a way that appealed strongly to Christians, such as my family here in UK who first encountered the missionaries in the 1960's. I think the attack upon your traditional landmarks, such as that mural, is part of a general assault on Christian churches' history, to undermine the sense of heritage. It is a subversive revolutionary tactic.
💯
Marxist "Historical Revisionism." Control the future by manipulating the past.
Yes..In fact B.H.O....After all he is to be the biblical A.C..
Thank you for that comment. I'm glad to see that there are people that really get what's going on. The destruction of history and heritage of the westurn way of life is what is wanted, This was done in germany in the nineteen thirties.
I agree
I am Caucasian, who's ancestors came from England and Denmark across the plains to Utah. I went to Kailua High School and one year at Church College of Hawaii in 1963 - 1964 before going on a mission for the Church. That mural was so important to me because it inspired my studies that led to my spiritual confirmation of the truth of the Gospel. My wife was born in Hawaii and her mother was raised near Volcano on the big Island, and we have 6 hapa haole kids. This makes me so mad!!!!!! Get woke (Lucifarian) ideas out of BYU Hawaii!!!
Fortunately, if you check BYU Hawaii construction projects, you'll see that they said, "we are committed to preserving significant portions of the mosaic as a central feature of the new construction."
Malarkey
When I joined the Church many, many years ago, one of the missionaries that taught me told me something that I have clung to since. He said "The Church (the Gospel of Jesus Christ) is perfect. People aren't". Over the years I've had many ups and downs. I have been treated very badly by some members and loved unconditionally by others. The true Saints will out. The WHOLE BYU system needs a purging on the order of Christ clearing the money changers from the Temple. Just saying.
Well said!
THIS!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Turning the hearts of the children to the fathers includes having a knowledge of and respect for the accomplishments and dreams of those fathers, especially in honoring their sacrifices in building up God's kingdom. This isn't about money, its about erasing the past, and it will come back to haunt us all.
Amen. Well said. Elijah's spirit is so much more than temple work.
There has to be political reasons, I can think of no other reason to destroy the mural considering the situation.
Kudos to that tile expert for offering to work on the mural FREE OF CHARGE. that man is a true saint in these latter days
Obviously this isn't about money with so many possible donor's.
And worth mentioning a church with billions set aside for a rainy day.
This is so sad. Every time I turn around my heart breaks a little more for the direction of the church in some of it auxiliaries.
Do you ever call the church and tell them this?
The Church is good. President Nelson is good. But he isn't a micromanager nor should he be. The administration of BYU Hawaii is at fault.
@@bobbyc.1111 you can't "call the Church." There is no mechanism for that. You can talk to your Bishop. He will just turn it around and and ask you how he can help you overcome "your problem."
I hope that this can be saved. Please don’t destroy such a beautiful work of art.
Call the church and let them know
My family is one of those who traveled from the islands to the salt lake valley to receive their endowments so I love this story ❤
Great legacy!
I am an alumni of b y u Hawaii... That whole area has gone woke... Sad to say... It will become like b y u In Provo. It's like Moroni, said " all churches had become corrupted"
Frank and Verla talked about Laie, along with BYU Hawaii being a gathering place for the early Polynesian Saints. My wife and I are currently Service missionaries at BYU Hawaii. Not only has this been a gathering place for those before 1960, but since then, thousands have gathered here to receive eduction that allows them to "Go forth to Serve". The students gather here, as prophesied by President McKay
They gather from Malasia, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Solomon islands, Vanuatu, Kiribati, Nuway, Palau, Marshall islands, Samoa, New Zealand,, Korea, Mongolia, China, Cambodia, Thailand, (I've missed some). Even Guatemala, Peru, and other South American countries.
This is truly a gathering place. The cost to preserve it may be ten million. Maybe more, maybe less. The point is that it is a historical symbol that ought to be preserved, since Laie has been a gathering place for tens of thousands
Totally agree, this is so symbolic and I think it should be preserved as much as possible. There is a will, there is a way. This cancelation may drift some Hawaiian/Polynesian church members away, is it really worthy of doing so? Is it really the will of God? What is the benefits of removing the murals?
@@lorrainelok9976 The mural is not the problem, the artist that placed Mckay at the pole with the flag and everyone around him saluting him is a form of worshipping man and not God, a false idol of sorts. I know that the mural is not intended to portray this but sadly it does and that is the first impression most people see. My mom and dads family have roots here in Laie from the beginning, The Temple which our ancestors built and points the way to God is a good enough symbol for me of the sacrifice my ancestors made, and it does not offend God.
@@rksnote9635
Do you believe that soldiers saluting a higher officer are implying that those officers are gods? That doesn't make any sense at all. This feels like the new 'Woke' ideology. Dangerous and disturbing. Showing respect to a prophet is becoming a new no-no. This kind of thinking is against what the Lord taught. Don't tear down respect or the mural.
@@rksnote9635 Actually, I looked at the mural again. It is the flag being salted, not President McKay.
Don't forget Tahiti the first foreign mission of the church 1843, I think elder cook mentioned it in last conference! Mau ruru roa hoa!
I hope this plea to recognize the sacrifice of our Polynesian brothers and sisters will reach the ears and touch the hearts of the highest leadership in our Church.
Their story needs to be heard, recognized, and celebrated by us all.
I am a convert and love the Pioneer stories of the saints crossing the plains.
However, there are many other pioneer stories, such as this one, that must be told.
The flag raising ceremony story and mural is awesome but the placement of the figures in the mural is what is in question. The artwork unintentionally portrays Mckay and the American flag at the center of being worshipped. "Man" worship is what the Church is trying to change...is why we have to stop calling ourselves Mormons and using the correct term of The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints. We worship Jesus...besides did Mckay really hold the flag at the pole in real life or was it sensationalized?
Saluting the flag is not worship.
@@CwicShow In the context of this mural which is THE focal point as you enter the BYUH campus, God and the leaders of the University do not agree
You know what God said about this mural? What exactly did God say about this mural?
@@CwicShow it is. Have you read his (Pres Mckay) speech given from the flag raising that day?
Thank you for bringing this up. So sad. As a Tongan immigrant, President McKay holds a special place in my heart. Love this mural. Variety of people, American flag, it screams unity and love.
Fortunately, if you check BYU Hawaii construction projects, you'll see that they said, "we are committed to preserving significant portions of the mosaic as a central feature of the new construction."
I was 3 when the missionaries visited my family and David O McKay was president in 1965 when my parents were baptized. President McKay is so wonderful, he has blessed us so much with his service
Iosepa is a part of church history that rarely gets talked about. It was an absolute tragedy for the Polynesian Saints. They came to Utah with faith to join the body of the church, and were rejected and treated like outcast.
The church didn’t know where to put them because Society and Salt Lake City deemed them savages and uncivilized. Being exposed to the new lands, many became sick. The Polynesian Saints were then moved to skull valley, a desert wasteland.
When the first winter arrived, it hit the Polynesian Saints hard. They sent correspondence to church headquarters, asking for provisions and blankets in which they didn’t receive anything. Many of the Polynesians died in that winter. Many were kids. Church headquarters would send a letter, saying that the children that died will go to heaven and that God gives trials to those he loves, and to keep pushing forward.
With no support or provisions in a desert wasteland, the Polynesian Saints would change their dire situation around. They turned the town they named Iosepa into a thriving city. It had an aqueduct bringing water to their crops. It also served as drinking water for the livestock they had.
In 1911, the city rivaled Salt Lake City and won the most progressive city award. As church leaders saw this successful development they would go on to tell the Polynesian Saints that they had to go back home to build the temple in Hawaii.
The church would go on to take all their livestock, the crops, and sell the land. Many Polynesian Saints suffered and died and were terribly mistreated. But as the brother said earlier, this isn’t about rising up and turning this into some kind of anti church movement. But it is part of the church history, and it needs to be told just like the story of the pioneers that cross the plains story is told.
Even with this history, I know that the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored through Joseph Smith Jr the prophet and that the church has the priesthood keys so i keep the faith.
I’m confident to say that if Joseph Smith Jr would’ve made it to the salt lake valley and lived to see the day when the Polynesians arrived, they wouldn’t have lived that way because Joseph Smith loved everyone of every color.
The letter correspondence between church headquarters and the Polynesian Saints are preserved, but they are currently under “secure status”.
Yes, bc of their complexion (skin color), my ancestors and many others were treated harshly by being cast out of the Salt Laie valley and were told not one but two valleys (Skull Valley) was acceptable of a distance to reside during their journey to “gather in Zion”.
Curious tho, what does the church not want us to know about the correspondence between they and our ancestors?
@@nnaeole one day all things hidden by man will be made known. As of now, to guess would only be speculation.
I am an alumni of this beautiful campus in Lair. This mural must be preserved as a reminder of the Gospel shining forth to the isles and lands of the Pacific. This mural is the focal point of the campus and I will always remember the gratitude I would feel passing by it each day on my way to class.
This hits close to home on many levels: I am a 1984 graduate of BYU-H. All 3 of my children graduated from there (raised in Southern California.) They were accepted to all three BYUs but because I am their mother, a Maori from New Zealand, after high school, they boarded planes to Honolulu, and loved learning more deeply about the Polynesian half of who they are, at BYUH. Laie is my happy place. Three of my siblings are graduates. My elder brother still lives in the area - I just sent him this video.
A similar thing happened in NZ. My siblings and I all attended Church College of New Zealand, ("CCNZ", a high school) in Temple View,, an outlying suburb of the City of Hamilton. Two of my siblings taught there. A sister was the assistant to the principal. President David O. McKay was the prophet at the time the temple and CCNZ were constructed in 1955? and 1958. President Hinckley ordered the closure of the school, which happened in 2009. It was an emotional and difficult time for the Saints there, especially too, like Laie, because it was built by labor missionaries.
Here is the amazing thing that happened: the plan by the powers that be, in Utah, was to completely raze/demolish the campus. However, the City of Hamilton informed the Church that that would not happen: CCNZ was of civic and national historic interest and The Church was denied complete razing of the campus! Source: my sister. Wouldn't it be nice if the City and County of Honolulu could come in and do the same! (Laie does not have a city government since all the land is owned by the Church.) Correct me if I'm wrong,
I agree with Verla and Frank: this is an emotional issue. It also has historical and religious significance. I hope the mural can and will stay.
Thank you for relating this.
Wow. That is interesting. What was Hinkle's reason for the order? Did he say it was "too expensive?" Or was it just a push to get CES out of primary education? The Church was embarrassed by what was called the "Indian placement program" during that period. It was a program that got native Americans off the reservation and into "white" homes during the school year. It was attacked as being "racist" by the woke.
Sister Moore really hit it home. You must preserve the past to have a future. The wokeness that has infected the church greatly saddens me.
I have a feeling the anti Christ secretly has a hand in tearing down this Muriel. To erase people's past no matter how much it costs doesn't have the Spirit or Jesus Christ in mind. Jesus Christ is one who preserves people's past in the book of Mormon in every patriarchal blessing in every conference talk we hear has a preservation of the past. This is truly a sign of the times. Restoration of the gospel restoration of a Muriel. Kinda goes hand in hand.
Let's raise the money! These sweet members deserve to have their heritage preserved!!!! It's so important to them!
Agreed!
Call the school and talk to the school see what they want
The problem is that the school doesn't take money for any specific project. All donations go to a general fund and apportion as seen fit. Donors can not tell the school what to buy or not to buy with it.
I can see the wisdom in this. However, I wish there could be exceptions in such cases as cultural and historical preservation. I guess it all comes down to whether the church sees this mural to be as significant as the members of the community do.
@@motuna5332 Although there have been several donations made to the BYU Provo Athletic Deparment for specific buildings.
Oh my goodness!
Why do some people like to destroy history that belongs to other people? 😳
This is upsetting and I have compassion for this brother and sister. There seems to be something else missing that maybe is hidden. I love that mural and hope it can be saved. It's such a shame to tear it down.
Where do we turn? Who do we contact? BYU Hawaii President, board members? Each nationality, race, peoples from different parts of the world has its own pioneer story. This is something I would like to study further. These stories would be great podcast material stories for members of a world
The administration at BYU-Hawaii says the decision (s) regarding the mural is out of their hands -- we were told, "It's too late." That being the case, it makes more sense to reach out to the CES board and ask them to reverse its position.
On another note, the mural/mosaic is the center/focal point of the university, and rightfully so -- it should remain in place and not stowed in some obscure building no one knows and/or cares about. You can build up, around, over and under for all its worth, but that mosaic represents the very reason for the Church College of Hawaii, now BYUH, being in existence.
My dad met David O McKay back in the 50's. He was my dad's favorite prophet, a very special experience for him.
I hope the mural will be kept. It is a memorial, a reminder of the blessings of the gospel being proselytized in HI. The community' s feelings should be kept in consideration.
Thank you for alerting us to this strange development. We need to start a petition to save the Mural of David O McKay. As an Alumni of BYU Hawaii.and former Student Body President...this is extremely disturbing. We all honored this Mural because it symbolized the prophetic mandate which set in motion this University. WHO IS MAKING THIS POLITICAL?
Thank you for informing us. I went to BYU Hawaii in 1976. I married Jan G Fisher, a great LDS artist who taught there. Last December I visited my granddaughter who was a student there. I took a nostalgic tour and saw the many changes including the closed off mural. She told me they were going to tear it down because it was condemned and dangerous. I felt so sad. Art is our history! This must be preserved. The church has billions of dollars, not to mention all those who would donate. This must be political! I'm sorry to say but our church is becoming corrupt. The gospel is true and I love it, but wherever there is excessive amounts of money, there will be conspiring corruption. It's time for God to cleanse his house, let it begin. We need to stand up for truth and be a light. No more appeasements. Let the persecution begin. Where is our Nephi, Moroni, Ezrai? I will never leave the gospel but I feel like the church is leaving me. God help us.
I'm only one person. Of myself I can do nothing. But I CAN (and will) pray. Hopefully, we all know the power of prayer.
I’m shocked that the mural is even being considered to be removed. The $10M figure seems to be an arbitrary number pulled out of the air with the intention of not dealing with people who are interested in preserving the mural. It would be interesting to get a response from the Brethren in SLC and hear their thoughts on the matter. If the $10M is legitimate, the Church has pretty substantial resources to preserve it. There are also a large number of people with resources who would gladly donate to preserve this historic mural. My guess is this is getting enough attention to solve the mural issue and preserve it. Keep us updated on this story Greg.
This must be preserved. Please keep us informed on any fund raising needed
I feel for Verla and John. I lived and taught there for four years. My office was right next to the mural. This story needs to be told. Art is a significant part of the church, especially the preservation of it. Many are praying for the Lord to intervene and protect the heritage of Laie's amazing saints. Thank you, Greg.
When art paints the wrong image then its a problem. Many art work in the Book of Mormon has been proven inaccurate and been removed from LDS literature. I seriously doubt Elder Mckay was holding the flag next to the pole which unintentionally created the image of students saluting the white man. The artist is the problem not the "mural".
The students aren’t “saluting the white man” no matter how you try to twist and malign what the mural is depicting. It is giving honor to a nation that allowed the gospel to be restored. You have a very leftist view of this situation, which is not the truth.
@@rksnote9635 Your characterization of the mural is wrong and the artist you accuse is likely a native islander. However thank you very much for being honest about your political opinion instead of hiding it. That helps us understand where the BYU-Hawaii adminstrators are coming from who want to tear down the mural; they likely share your opinion.
We do not worship nor have we ever looked upon the mural as an idol or imagery to be prayed to. We honor it as the embodiment of the faith and conviction instilled in all of us who are directly connected to the divinley inspired migration of LDS Saints from throughout the Hawaiian Islands and the other polynesian island settlements and pacific rim peoples. We cherish the few landmarks that speak of this trek. We correllate this event to the migration of Lehi to the Americas. We identify a close kinship to Hagoth and the many ships that sailed to the isle of the seas. And we know that our migration is so closely intertwined with the later day day gathering of Israel. So when one of the few landmarks is slated for distruction it pains us to no end, but our faith our testimony cannot be swayed. Any contentious affiliation to the Kingdom is sorely felt but the Queen respected very highly and supported the conversion of her people to the various religious sects of her time. She traveled to Laie to be with her subjects and to celebrate with them. She traveled to Salt Lake City developing a close kinship to the church. Our faith will continue to be rooted in a greater power, plan and purpose. That is why keeping the mural intact and preserved as it serves as a beacon and reminder to generations that will follow of who we are and our continuing migration to gather israel.
Church needs some inspiration on this. Sounds if Heavenly would want this persevered! We are all tithes payers and should be able to save our history!
Man I love this conversation. I don't have lots of money to give to this but I support this in any way I can. I love their stories and the legacy. It's amazing.
It isn't money. It's all political. Never put "woke" people in charge of anything. They gravitate to education. Brainwashing and grooming young minds IS the plan.
Raise up Brothers and Sisters, is there a committee or group we can donate to help? Phone calls to the church educational office? What can we do?
I’m a Tongan in Indiana via my father’s migration through Hawaii to BYU.
Greg, please keep us updated on this issue. Thank you for sharing this episode.
Greg Matsen is quickly becoming an indispensable voice in the LDS zeitgeist. This was a fantastic video.
He's our Alex Jones. I shudder to think where we would be without his truth telling.
@Tory Swank oh look! Greg even has brainless trolls who comment on videos they don't even watch!
@@jonahbarnes5841 Alex goes too far sometimes. Greg is more restrained. He's like Alex Jones if he put on the armor of God.
@Tory Swank Tory is a lesson in self awareness, kids. Learn what you can: always consider how you look to outsiders...
I am a History Story Specialist in our ward. Thank you for this video. It is helping me to do my job better. 💕
I HOPE the leadership in the Church and at BYU HAWAII put their feet down and DO NOT ALLOW THE WOKE to get their way to destroy this BEAUTIFUL MURAL. I was in Hawaii late November and when I saw that mural I was so impressed and felt so HAPPY and proud that this historical event of the prophet at the time performed a FLAG RAISING at BYU Hawaii. I LOVE the Polynesian Cultural they are WONDERFUL PEOPLE. I will be passing this on.🙏🙏
My experience is small by comparison but the personal experience and investment these folks have in this mural reminded me of when I was a kid in the 70's and each family had an obligation or assessment to contribute to pay the operating expenses and building costs of their chapel. It's all covered by tithing now and there seems to be a disconnect in younger generations because there is no sacrifice or investment. This mural not only needs preserved but the values that built it and has had stewardship over it need to be taught again and preserved.
Your absolutely correct.
I'm an active, faithful member of the Church. I have a strong testimony of God my Father, my Savior Jesus Christ and their living prophets...and past prophets. I believe President Thomas S. Monson and David O. McKay would be turning over in their graves, if they were there, if this mural gets destroyed. I feel for these two and the many others who feel this mural represents their, and the Church's legacy in Hawaii. Just like they mentioned how the "This is the Place" monument does for Saints in Utah and around the world. I agree with them. I agree with this brother and sister's comment regarding they think this is political and "wokeness". I believe this brother's thought that "wokeness" has no place in the Church. Why? Because it's divisive and goes directly against the teachings of the Savior in His Church. We are all children of God, are of great worth, and our legacies are important. The legacy of our Father's Plan of Salvation, the legacy of Jesus Christ's Atonement, the legacy of the Book of Mormon, the legacy of Joseph Smith and his First Vision. "Wokeness" discriminates against individuals. If you don't stand up against those who seek to destroy, there will be nothing left. Captain Moroni and the Nephites fought against the Lamanite destroyers for their freedom, right to worship God, and their families, as outlined in the Title of Liberty. This issue is no different. I believe this isn't about money. Please live the gospel of Jesus Christ taught in His Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and do NOT destroy this historic legacy of love mural. If you do, where will it lead and what else will be destroyed?
I feel bad for these good people and what is happening. I pray BYU makes the right decision and leave this mural.
The other trek that is never discussed is southern Utah, specifically Hole in the Rock. The terrain and climate was much worse than the plains. Yet, No one died during that trek. I had an ancestor born during that trek. I'm not down playing the plains. I had ancestors who survived the Martin Handcart company. But it's weird that Hole in the Rock is not ever mentioned. I'm trying to share those stories more.
Thank you for sharing this info and beautiful stories of faith!
My ancestors were a part of the Hole in the Rock trek as well, it is nothing short of amazing that they were able to do what they did.
Gerald Lund did a pretty good job telling faithful, but fictional accounts of Hole in the Rock groups. My great grandfather/mother were in 2d group and founded Monticello. My mother's cousin Corrine Roring rebuilt the Bluff fort and visitor's center.
I read a fascinating book about the Hole in the Wall. What a great story.
My only trek experience as a youth was doing a part of the hole in the rock trail. I think any other trek would be boring by comparison😊
I just sent the link to this podcast to the Hon.Tulsi Gabbbard, former US Rep from Hawaii, and US patriot!
It would be good for leaders to value the feelings of the local community. I agree that the past must be preserved. ❤️ My heart breaks for them.
That’s my Homie John🤙🏽🙏🏼He knows his stuff, best tile guy around, & great friend.
Thank you Greg🤙🏽🐐🏝
Thanks for sharing this important story. I remember President Monson sharing his joy during conference talks about the cultural celebrations affiliated with temple dedications he attended. Success with all your efforts to help preserve this delightful mural!
I don’t understand why the church leaders in salt Lake don’t stop this
I think you understand. Perhaps it is too painful to accept. Same with Deseret Book. Same with BYU, Provo.
This was happening in the 1840s. Some of Joseph's closest priesthood leaders and his wife, Emma, were undermining the work. I'd like to hear how much of this change is being driven by Mrs. Nielson.
My thoughts exactly.
What a shame. Before BYU-H, the only school available was Territorial Normal School in Honolulu. The early Hawaiian saints did have some LDS teachers there (my g-grandfather for one), but it was difficult with the culture barriers.
To erase this tribute to their culture and it's preservation is reprehensible. If anything, when they tear it down, they make a BIGGER and BETTER one focusing on David O'McKay's and the Lord's love for this people.
Very educational and emotional video. Thanks Graig for you dedication and talent.
As a Tongan American who lives in Utah, I pray that those who have the power to save that mural, absolutely DO… That mural is a depiction of the story of my ancestry & their migration here to the America’s which is through the Prophet David O. McKay & his dream… My ancestors traveled through Laie to get me here to Utah🥺
These two individuals in this segment have eloquently stated exactly why it needs to be saved… This is OUR (Polynesian people) pioneer heritage. My grandfathers built the very foundations of the temple there in Laie… It would be a major disservice to our Polynesian heritage to destroy that mural & dismiss it as a thing of naught. I don’t want to come off as worshipping an idol but if the leaders felt it necessary to save the artwork in the Manti Temple, I’m sure they would feel the same about this mural❤️🔥🤞🏽
This whole conversation made me super emotional… Frank & Verla are absolutely right. We have a history. We need our own link. That needs to be preserved. Polynesian people are humble & non confrontational (for the most a part👀😂, we’re not perfect) This is not us wanting a radical movement… We just want our rich history preserved. I mean, what’s going to be nixed next? PCC? What would BYU-H at that point?😞
Perhaps the Manti Temple is more important because it is the Caucasian history of the church, which is more valid to the hierarchy than the history of the Polynesians or any other people who don't have European ancestry.
@@timhazeltine3256 If that’s they way you choose to perceive it… Run with it👋🏽
Have BYU Hawaii go to a devotional with these two speaking (accompanied by a general authority) of the importance of the mural to the members of the area. That could wake up the administration and the students to the symbolic importance of it. We need to honor everyone’s pioneer history. 🙏
Historical items should never be destroyed. We learn from our past.
Greetings from Brisbane Australia,Listening to this fills me with empathy and to agree with all the positive comments(100%),thoughts and understanding from all participants including those with a personal and intimate knowledge of the BYU Hawaii foundational history.This to me has been an amazing podcast-thank you Bro.Matsen and all involved in bringing this issue to light.I still feel similarly towards the closure of CCNZ.That to me is what BYU Hawaii is to so many now.
I too would like to be part of contributing to the preservation of the historical mural wall. I also don’t want to see significant church history sites erased and sincerely hope that are no ‘wokism’agendas behind the scenes.Will follow this podcast-thanks again to all the positive attitudes that are driving this growing groundswell of support.I love and respect you all,
Fortunately, if you check BYU Hawaii construction projects, you'll see that they said, "we are committed to preserving significant portions of the mosaic as a central feature of the new construction."
What a shameful thing for this mural to not be fully restored and moved. This is the first time I’ve heard about this mural and seen it. As upsetting as this is I am also extremely concerned about the the people sitting on the Board of Trustees who apparently think in “woke” terms. Why are people that belong to our church doing this? It sounds political to me. The word Colonialism immediately gives it away. If this is the true reason behind this, I say shame on them. It’s being decided on in a secretive way. It’s alarming.
This is just another example of the cancel culture that exists in many departments of the church. Thank you Greg and guest for speaking out. We see this with Deseret Book, and with the Public Affairs Department. This “wokeness” permeates throughout most departments of the church. Thank you all again. I hope this can be stopped.
I don’t have money, so I can’t support you in that way. But I need to know how I, an LDS member in Missouri, can help with this. I want this mural maintained
Why wouldn't they just MOVE the mural or monument? Still keep it in a prominent place and then everyone is happy! Why make it so hard?
EDIT: after listening more and hearing there were already donors ready to pay for it to me moved and that not being immediately accepted makes this change VERY suspect. Hmmmm.
Appreciate you bringing this to our attention Greg.
Mahalo Greg!. I'm sharing this with everyone from my hometown.
Braddah, we know about it. Down with the mural and cultural exploitation/appropriation.
When one is not Ma’a to the kaona of things like this mural it’s easy to take on your own interpretation of what it is and why it’s there. You can see it as good or bad. You can see it as a sacrifice of our Kupuna who sacrificed their lives to ensure their Keiki received the blessings of the restored gospel that is enshrined in a mural that was erected out of pure love, a labor of love, to be a beacon and reminder of why we’re here and not forget it. Or we can choose to focus a couple things in the picture that we may choose to interpret it according to the views of certain scholarly men who knowingly ignore it’s true history and intent only to push a narrative that is meant to keep people in a place of anger and hate, divide and confusion. The true history is clear and is one of love and sacrifice which tells us the story of why we are here today. The other perspective only keeps you in a state of anger, animosity and confusion.
@@halamahquin4355 Palala, O ka pilina me ka kaua mau ohana, kono au ia oe e kipa mai. A maopopo oe kahi kuu nohona ma Laie, e kukakuka kaua alo a he alo. E hele mai palala
@@nnaeole ʻAe palala! makemake au kēlā, i kekahi manawa ma hope a kukakuka kaua he alo a he alo, maikaʻi ke hana pēlā. Malama Pono ‘oe! 🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
@@nnaeole O ka’u helu kelepona , Ekolu Ehiku Elua - Eono Ekahi Ehiku Ewalu. Ina Makemake oe e kelepona a txt. 🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
Thank you for bringing this to light.
Let's all pray for God's hand to guide the men at the university to see the light. And also pray and work toward getting our prophet in on these decisions.
I'm so glad I get to see this mural in person in a couple weeks.
It should not be taken down , President Nelson better stop it he has to stop it! President McKay has to be honored for all he did for the church in Hawaii!
This story saddens me. I had no idea until I watched your podcast. It is essential that the mural be preserved! It is a heritage piece of art for the whole Church. I did not hear this discussed by any of the participants on this podcast but it seems to me that the Apostle who has responsibility over this area of the world needs to become involved!!! Who would make that contact from the community. Money is not an issue that’s for certain.
What a beautiful story about Hawaii Pioneer Story I love it and it needs to be saved ❤
I have seen the mural a few times. I get what your saying and I agree you need your connection like us Ut people have here. I pray you get to keep it.
A couple of years ago when it was announced that the Manti temple was going to gut and remodel the temple. A bunch of members were up in arms about losing the pioneer art murals and the church reversed its decision. They are now restoring the temple. Why do these people not get the same consideration?
Very well spoken! Keep up the cause.
This needs to be preserved. The Lord is a Lord of heritage. I do hope the leaders of the Church are inspired to step in here.
In the past, the church has taken donations for specific projects. I'm not the only person who would donate. The church in the 50s and 60s required much more sacrifice. I think that's definitely worth preserving. The Polynesian people are so good and beautiful their this is the place monument, where their families went to make and keep covenants is worth knowing. My late husband grew up with many Polynesian people in California. He loved them so, when we'd go back to California, he would have to introduce everyone to me. Thanks for sharing this information, brother Matsen! I hope you let us know if we can donate or do something to save this pioneer piece of history.
When you take away someone's history, you change who they are.
Great segment Greg. Very, very interesting. I wonder what history will look like when our grandkids learn about it.
I don't know all the details of this situation, but it seems like the Saints in the Manti temple district were successful in their request to preserve the murals in the Manti temple.
This makes my heart hurt even more than it already does. I am grateful that the Lord Almighty has a plan. I will trust his plan no matter what. Life is hard and only getting harder every day. I am pushing forward trusting him to guide me. It isn't easy and I have made a lot of mistakes along the way. He knows my heart and desire to follow him. I remember as a child the members worked on the church houses and church farms. All members spent time on the farms and churches as volunteers. My brother broke his leg when working on the roof. Many generations all over the world have spent time physically working on church farms, church houses, and temples.
What else can we do??????? Call church headquarters? Flood them with calls????
Just close all the BYU's down at this point. If they don't want to teach truth and want to indoctrinate...shut all of them down, close up shop, they're done
Amen. Shut it down. Fire everyone. Until it can be run by faithful members and strong leaders it doesn’t need to exist. Causing more harm than good.
That would destroy a lot of good. Better to fix then destroy.
Just need to do some purging. There are still a majority of good people at all of them. Just need to remove the cancers.
@@robbhays8077 I’m not sure the majority is good. I know BYU employees who paint a very bleak picture of the wickedness and depravity of students, faculty, and staff. Let’s hope that getting rid of the apostate president of BYU results in positive changes, but I have my doubts that it is salvageable.
Maybe they could make a petition to save this historical painting and have everyone in the community sign it and then petition the local historical society to preserve this.
They thought of this. But it doesn’t work because it is private property.
That’s a great idea. We should all send the BYU President of Hawaii a nice friendly letter.
Thank you so so much for this let’s the peoples know that.
I'm so sad. I hope this is not true. This mural was a part of my childhood. My father obtained citizenship and we were able to be born as American citizens. These Hawaiian Children are such a physical token and symbol of the covenant promise linking the isles of the sea back to the Abrahamic Covenant. It's such a special physical marker before the international flags around the little circle on my way to the library as a child. This saddens me.
I returned home and it seemed they also changed our community Christmas tradition of the children of Laie and Byuh children ushering the countdown of the Christmas lighting after their Christmas performances. I was shocked to see all the lights on early on Thanksgiving. It feels like erasure of culture, tradition, celebration, legacy and faith.
I loved to say the pledge of allegiance every morning at school before our free time to read a book as a class. It brought unity. I loved hearing the song anthem trumpet while seeing everyone freeze wherever they were at because we were running late with our hands over our heart in salute. Those are precious memories. Hearing the song as they take down the flag at the end of school and all the kids walking towards the temple home or the direction of the university and pausing again in respects. The kids use to remind eachother to pause on the streets back home. It was a great moment of reverence. Don't know if culture changed since I've been home, but that was my favorite part as it unified children and taught us respect and reverence for the flag. The symbolism of America. I miss those sweet days of innocence and unity. You forget how special things are when time has passed. I've had great memories in this community and BYUH being a part of it. You can't unlink the community from the University they helped sustain and serve over the years even to this day.
We certainly share the same great memories 😂
I work at a college; I have experience with administrators making decisions without consulting more knowledgeable people on the issues. What troubles me most is the hidden agenda behind some of their decisions. When confronted, they move on without explanation or present false information to support their goals, taking advantage of the ignorance of others. Very frustrating.
Totally reasonable request their history should be reserved! If there is a fund that is raised to save the mural I ask the host of this channel please advertise this fund so I can contribute. I'm not a rich man but I 100% support this cause I would help if it's within my power.
Dang, I hope we can save it!
Hearing about the early saints in Hawaii, I am very interested in their history. And I think it would be a great addition to the story of the pioneers that went across the plains.
Who can members here in the mainland contact in Utah to help these Saints preserve their heritage?
Also, why doesn’t the church let the people around the world celebrate their own pioneer heritage? My heart breaks for these kids who have to do a “trek” like we do. Isn’t the purpose of a trek to strengthen the testimony of the youth and help them to appreciate the sacrifices made by their ancestors? If Polynesian youth don’t have an emotional tie to the event, then it’s a waste of time. Also, aren’t our Polynesian brothers and sisters descendants of Lehi?
Now that’s a heritage!
Until I hear what I can do to help, I’ll be praying for these good people. Thank you for making us aware.
I know the President of BYU-Hawaii wasn't mentioned but he leans much more left especially what happened with the vax mandates of students a couple years back. I am not surprised some in these admins want to erase beautiful history because of politics. I hope we can sustain this mural and more history. This was a great discussion
Don't forget his rainbow flag social media post. He's a Lefty. He needs to be shown the door.
President Kauwe is an honorable man with more than you can imagine on his shoulders. He cares about this university. Before anyone starts to tear down university figures, what can each of us do to try to be understanding?
@@mes3331 From my personal experience with family members, BYU schools(Ricks, Provo & Laie) have only been marginally effective in meeting their mission statement "to assist individuals in their quest for perfection and eternal life" UofU and other University Institute Programs do just as good a job or better. Interesting comparisons to Pioneer monuments and SLC Temple, the likely consequences for getting to woke Administrators for Laie's monument will lead to bad press for rebuilding of the SLC Temple and even other expensive projects like Provo Tabernacle/Temple & many other "Pioneer" Sites. The Church should likely put BYU Schools on the same course they did with LDS Hospitals and for much the same reasons. Honorable men are still men and make mistakes.
@@mes3331 he is a good man and we love him. It's been a little challenging getting our voices heard over all the 'distractions' being whispered in his ears on a daily basis.
BYUH was ridiculous when it came to the Vax mandate. It was safe? It was effective?
In the early 1990's, I got to visit the Polynesian Cultural Center, and even back then, I was deeply touched by the respect and acceptance expressed by the representatives of all those different cultures. It wasn't "tolderance," which can be awfully cold. It was RESPECT. There was a little very gentle, good-natured teasing, but that only served to emphasize that respect. I'm afraid that there are people in positions of power who are desperately threatened by any institution that brings people together.
There is a certain hubris within our society, we think we’re so enlightened. We’ve gone to university, and we can see clearly with 20/20 vision not only the future and how things should be, but our past and the best way to right the wrongs of the past. I don’t know that is what’s going on with the mural, but I strongly suspect that it is a large factor. There is indeed a sentiment of resentment in Hawaii over the colonization of the islands. It is heart breaking that this political pressure is seeping into the church culture there at BYU-Hawaii. My deepest heart felt sympathies go out to these fellow saints and all those effected by this.
But it seems like the Church is destroying a lot of these beloved works of art. The SLC Temple murals, the Mesa Temple murals, the Provo Temple, most of the mid-century architecture on the BYU campus is gone. The destruction of the McKay mural is particularly hard, as I'm a McKay and David O is so beloved by so many.
Truth. My family is pioneer Mesa stock and when most of the murals disappeared from that temple due to renovations they mourned.
I don't have a lot of money but I will be happy to donate a few of my mites to help preserve it.
This isn't about money. The Church has billions. Your money is taxed. Theirs (ours) isn't. It is less expensive for them (us, collectively). But, again, this is a political statement.
Well, hold on. Why can't we do a church wide petition to collect signatures for this monument? I'm 100% sure President Nelson, Elder Oaks and Elder Eyring would hear the hearts of the Saints. We're doing what is asked of is, working together with one heart, mind and Spirit. This is important to ALL of us members if it's praiseworthy and of good report. The leaders just barely spoke of this barely over 2 weeks ago.
My nephew is President of BYU-Hawaii. I'm going to call him to get the straight scoop.
Please do and can you report back on this platform?
Our entire LDS history is embarrassing to the woke grievous wolves. History must be erased to make way for "progress."
"We will embarrass our descendants, just as our ancestors embarrass us. This is moral progress."
Sam Harris, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values
"Intellectuals hate progress. Intellectuals who call themselves “progressive” really hate progress. It’s not that they hate the fruits of progress, mind you: most pundits, critics, and their bien-pensant readers use computers rather than quills and inkwells, and they prefer to have their surgery with anesthesia rather than without it." Chapter 4 PROGRESSOPHOBIA is solid. Steven Pinker Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress
Well said. Reminds me of "1984" by Orwell.
Marxists believe in destroying the history and culture of a nation they want to conquer.
@@m4oni
I think both narratives can have an element of truth. The past is both liberating and oppressive.
@IIIJT makes you think about choices you make in your life, doesn't it? Remember, think in the context of choices at that time in history, and don't impose your ideas on those that come before us.
I enjoy listening to your podcast. You have taught me a lot about the church and I appreciate that.
Thank you!
Very interesting. I definitely feel the strong emotions from your guests and understand it to the extent that I am able. I am not about to be what has been called an activist towards the church, but I love the Polynesian people and it was interesting to hear their feelings on the "trek" their ancestors have made. I do think the history of the Polynesians should be celebrated and I feel that is part of the reason that the Polynesian Cultural Center and BYU Hawaii established and are supported to such an extent. The beautiful Temple is another very important area of focus there. I don't know the politics or boardroom discussions about this, but I do hope that a resolution can be made that will continue to strengthen testimonies. Murals or buildings, chapels or monuments, symbols or experiences - they are all meant to be beacons which point us towards what is really important: a solid understanding of and everlasting relationship with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Wow! This is the first I’ve heard of this. Our friends in our ward were mission Presidents there several years ago. I guarantee they know about this and have offered to donate to preserve it. I hope there is a way to make sure it is saved. 🙏🏻
Very interesting and educational! I knew none of this.
I served my mission in Hawaii, and have a deep love for the Hawaiian people. I met my husband there who went to BYU Hawaii. My oldest daughter also went to BYU Hawaii. We lived in Hawaii for many years. Please do not destroy this wonderful emotional mural, because if you do, it will crush the spirit of the Hawaiian Saints. Please have the Area General Authority get involved in this to shed light on why this is taking place, and what can be done to resolve this issue. So many people want the mural saved, the administration should take responsibility to do the right thing, to address the residents, and make things right. If this is politically motivated, then please do not let Satan win.
Thank you for honorably serving your mission here and for loving us, the native peoples of Hawai’i. I’m also glad for you and your family that BYU-Hawaii serves as such a monumental landmark in the framework of your family. However, as a native Hawaiian, member, resident (born and never left), and descendant of those native Hawaiian families of La’ie, I’d have to disagree. My spirit will not be crushed. In fact, my testimony is very much secured and rooted in the true tenets of the Gospel of Christ. I do not believe the mural needs to be saved, and there are better alternatives that not only the school, but the church also, should explore in order to truly depict the character of the school, Hawaiians, La’ie, and our love for Christ’s gospel.
Went to BYUH. The mural is important.