President Oaks Clears Up Church Position On Family Doctrine and Respect For Marriage Act
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
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The church is not "inching" toward same-sex marriage in the temple, as many suggest. Just the opposite.
We dig into three levels of President Oaks' speech--
1) The Respect For Marriage Act
2) Church involvement in the Culture War
3) The Internal Messaging to the Church vs the Messaging to the world
Church Newsroom article and video - newsroom.churchofjesuschrist....
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I expect the Church to which I've dedicated my entire life to "Stand up"
Not soften the Saviours teachings or leave anyone in doubt.
Do what is right and let the consequence follow.🙏
Amen. I'm constantly attacked for my actual belief in Joseph Smith as the prophet of the Restoration.
Thank you for expressing some of my deepest feelings on the subject.
Amen 100 % agree with you brother 🙏🏻
I agree but it may not look like what we expect. Expectations can lead to resentments. Our ways are not God's ways. We don't always understand.
It all flies in the face of GBH's talk of "Standing for Something".
Frankly, the PR for the church has been concerning for about 8 years now.
100
I agree. I feel like they weren't prepared for how quickly and with such a strong effort society would be pushing so hard against many of the gospel principles. The slow creep has definitely turned into what feels like a runaway train.
Yes, like NPR is running it or something.
Totally agree.... They have failed many times.
@@joscelynpease6656 I actually LOLed legit there...and I have a firm testimony but I have often felt the same thing. Still laughing .....hahahah
You said the most important part at the very end. We must become more INDEPENDENT learners! It’s not easy to do, but we must. Stay strong, The Plan of Salvation is true.
So very true. We must not be commanded in all things, however we must seek the confirmation of the Holy Ghost in all things!
In my opinion, the Respect for Marriage Act was not a compromise between LGBTQ+ rights and religious liberty, with both sides winning out. Rather, it was another move in a high-stakes chess game for all the cultural marbles. In this instance, the Church gave up a queen by entrenching same-sex marriages, in exchange for a rook in the hopes of fortifying what little we have left of religious liberty. This is what Senator Lee was trying to point out. Otherwise, why would the radical left be so celebratory on the White House lawn, as if they had just won the same-sex marriage lottery? And, further, why did so few of the Republicans support this bill?
In 2008 with the Prop 8 bill the Church was clearly on the offense in this cultural battle. In 2022 with the Respect for Marriage Act it is clear that the Church is now on the defense. When it comes to religious liberty the Church's shift from offense to defense is an ominious turn of events.
well said
@@annsertrue8782 I might have added that if the radical left can take away individual liberty within the public square they are not worried one whit as to how much religious freedom remains within the private sphere (our homes, temples, Churches), for they know that control of the public square gives them power through anti-discrimination laws to completely "crowd out" religious freedom and limit it to the narrow confines of the private sphere. The 2015 "Utah Compromise" wherein anti-discirmination laws apply to the public sphere of rental property but not to the private sphere of religious beliefs and practices within the church is just another example of giving up a "queen" (the public square) for a "rook" (the private sphere). I don't understand why more members of the church do not see that when religious freedom is "crowded out" of the pulic square that there is a tremendous loss of relgious freedom and that this "crowding out" will continue until nothing remains of this private sphere, that is, until this private sphere of religious freedom is allowed to exist in our hearts only.
@@davidcall3970 again well said and I agree 100%
100% agree
I’m calling it like it is: cowardly! I was there in California in 2008 and I’m left wondering where THAT warrior’s spirit has gone? If we’re just going to roll over a die every time Satan pushes a new culture war, what’s the point of anything anymore?
I absolutely love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. 💛
No one has ever, so far, explained why the church needed to come out publicly and announce support for this bill. It makes no sense to me. And saying that the church outwardly supports same sex marriage outside the church, while opposing it inside the church is very, very confusing. It seems like we are trying to worship the Lord while not offending Satan. I think the unfortunate side effect I begin to see is the gradual normalization of homosexuality within the church through our sometimes excessive respect and attempt to integrate it into the gospel. I don't think it can ever work no matter how well meaning we might be. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Clearly.
I agree and the ones who at the highest risk is the rising generation. Why aren’t we as a church protecting them better?
@@jules01221 My concern exactly Julie
I think "The Church" really needs to greatly improve their PR Department.
Nope, the church pr dept hit right where they were aiming. Show contrition to lower the amount of attention and scrutiny from private and govt actors. Is it not a tad coincidental that they were under investigation by the SEC during that period and have now been let off with a $4mill slap on the wrist? Australia and Canada are conducting similar investigations and you have to believe that part of the pressure comes from the animosity generated by our prior stance on gay marriage.
@@Billsbobprior stance?
I believe we are in the midst of darkness in Lehi's dream. We know the doctrine and we know Christ does not change. But rather than holding fast, some are looking around, listening and being distracted by media and other members of the church. When I was in officer candidate school, I was given a charge to get my troops from one end of the campus to a specific classroom. Easy! Until a TAC Officer jumped in front of me as I was marching the troops. Suddenly I had 4 of them surrounding me all screaming different orders. I remembered my first order was to get those troops to a specific destination. So I ordered my XO. (Executive Officer) to take over and March the troops to the classroom. It didn't matter what the TACS were screaming at me to do. I had my orders for the day. I passed that test that I didn't know was coming and hadn't in anyway anticipated. We have our orders, if you will, hold fast and maintain the objective! The gospel is true to the word of God.
So right. Ignore them when we can. Rebuke them when we must.
Only here, LDS are being distracted by the leaders of the church.
@@candlewatt yeah, that was my thought. Quorum of the twelve is supposed to be the rock, not part of the chattering class. I don’t like it and I don’t like being so harsh
Such an awesome analogy!
Interesting you mentioned his dream. I think many members are following the man in white, wandering aimlessly around, and not taking the rod and coming to the tree. Following any man but Christ will not lead us to the tree.
I have a super woke Left wing ward part of BYU. I'm a Gospel Doctrine teacher so I just lovingly testify that the commandments of God will produce good fruit in our lives. So far it's going well
Good luck. We'll be standing side by side when our God returns. Thanks for fighting the fight.
Get very clear on the doctrine and do what the manuals say - “Teach the Doctrine”.
Saying “super left woke” Ward and “BYU” in the same sentence is rather redundant. 😂
Hopefully you're able to speak the truth. Pacifying them will not help them in the long run.
How well is it going when the branch is super left wing. Wokwness is not a good thing
Didn’t MIKE LEE complain that these protections did NOT exist in the bill?
Someone’s lying badly. 2 legal experts on different sides🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
He’s right. There are small loopholes that could be a problem. Mike Lee knows that. Keep him!!
Thanks for this, I appreciate your clarification!
I am transgender, and i respect freedom of religion, it also makes me happy you in turn respect us who are different. I will protect any LDS that needs protecting too :) thank you! :)
One can’t change their gender or sex, but I will protect those who claim it to be so, all people deserve respect and love, regardless their “struggles”. My concern is, laws already existed to do just that, why the need to pass another politically motivated “act” like the Destruction of Marriage Act? God be with you, jo.
@@dcarts5616 It is a mystery. I cant explain how things happen either. God be with you too :)
Possibly, I just Hope there won't be destruction if there's no fighting or no need for war. It doesn't look like there will be much peace, :( in the world as its going now, but I consider you my friend as well as respect everything you said.
I’m frustrated too. Didn’t really answer the question about the difference of opinion between Lee and Romney. Here you have a potential Supreme Court legal expert in Mike and in Romney is a financial guru?This is the same juxtaposition I have with the vaccine. We’re finding out that there are numerous side affects, significant health issues for some, and clearly more negatives now than positives for those who got the jab. Children and youth who were the most vulnerable and may live with long term consequences as compared to their risk from Covid. Blood, respiratory and heart issues. Yet we have a prophet heart surgeon encourage everyone to get vaccinated. I still view this as a Moses and the brass serpent situation and conveyed that to a number of my family and church friends after the letter telling members to get it. Now it’s crickets.
Yeah, I’ll be honest, the church’s covid policy has been a real test of my faith, and it’s kind of gone from there. Sometimes I wonder if The Lord is just testing His conservative members? Could be.
The church needs to start sharing information with members to prepare them for announcements. We are all representatives of the church
Excellent point
I will always be grateful for the testimony I gained because of the prophet asking us members in CA to make a stand on the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman, prop 8. It caused me to really question why it was such a big deal, and I spent a couple months pondering, fasting and praying, going to the temple, and having many discussions with lots of different friends and family about it. I took it very seriously and because of that, I learned so much. I gained a very strong testimony of our prophet and of the doctrine of the family. I don’t think it had been emphasized and taught well before that. And because I tested that aspect of my faith, I proved it. And now I know that the proclamation of the family is pure revelation and doctrine that came from Jesus Christ for our day. And because of that, I have been able to use that method and test it out on other issues that have arisen that I have struggled with. And have come out stronger. It’s a fantastic process. I think for that reason alone, I am so grateful for the church stepping into that political realm. I can’t say it’s always the right thing to do, but for me personally, I don’t think I would have gained this strong testimony.
Nice to see calmness, peace & a smile from President Oaks. Beautiful simple clarity in the “storm”🙏🏼🤙🏽💯
I do miss packer, but he did a good job
Oaks could get tough back when he was my SP. He has mellowed over the years. LOL!
As an old timer my advice is just hang on tight and follow the Prophet as things get more confusing because they will. Satan is at battle even with vocabulary making issues difficult.
In politics, this is what is called a trial balloon. You make controversial statements or implement policies where you want to push an agenda to see if people will accept it. If they do, you move forward. If they do not, then you pull back and make multiple press releases about how this was in error, it was done by someone who was not authorized, or some other excuse. Taken individually as a single instance, you can get away with this. But when this is happening over and over again and when you look at the condition and direction of BYU and consider this priesthood run institution as a microcosm of the church, this is not an accident and we members have to decide how to deal with these multiple aberrations or our lifelong standards.
Nah, I don't buy it. If anything, it is a doubling down on the current practice and doctrine of marriage and sealing in the church through protection. At least that is his intent.
Since Covid, I’ve felt the church had been incredibly sloppy when dealing with politics to the point, I now understand why it’s best the church stay out of politics. It really doesn’t end well and it only serves to chase people away.
Thank you, Greg! You clearly stated what’s going on with the church and this topic, AND you left no doubt about your firm testimony in our doctrine and your support of the Brethren. ❤
I stand with Senator Lee, I agree with him completely.
Me too. I'm just wondering whether that makes apostates or Christians.
@@rolandsmith4394 Just look at Romney, it's honesty. As times get harder, the tares will find they can no longer lie and will leave.
@@allmight9840what do you mean it’s honesty?
@@sadiegirl1243 Romney is two-faced. What he says and what he does do not correlate.
@@BrendonKing i agree but humans are not perfect even Jesus Christ taught that let him without sin first cast the stone at a woman that committed sin but not one picked up the stone or threw it because knowone is perfect we don't need to talk about it really because it's in our teachings about marriage between man and woman
When I joined the Church in the 1970s, there was a common phrase to guide us in our conduct: : "Avoid the very appearance of evil." I'd have to say that's what is confusing here.
I have faith in the GOSPEL, but this has had me question my faith at times in the FIRST PRESIDENCY, and where they're leading us. And, yes, I'm staying active and following the Prophet, but they definitely need to be more forthcoming with clarity.
If it's confusing to US, how does this look to nonmembers? How does it negatively impact missionary work? How are we supposed to be a beacon of light to a confused, conflicted world when we ourselves are confused and conflicted about where the Church (not the Gospel) stands on these issues?
I definitely think that it was necessary to spell out that the Church would be exempt from performing marriages outside our doctrine, but I wish it hadn't come at the price of being part of that bill. And I hope, even so, that it will be enough of a protection.
When someone like President Oaks needs to come out with a clarifying statement as he did to leaders in the mid-western stakes, it is beyond obvious the Public Affairs department of the church have failed the brethren.
Not to mention the angst the original statement cased faithful members of the church around the world.
I would love to see a complete reorganization in this department because they haven’t done a great job when it comes to reflecting/expressing current events and political views on behalf of the church or it’s leaders over the past many years.
Seems hard to believe an entire department can be this tone deaf🙄
Thanks yet again Greg for an enlightening show.
In something as sensitive as this issue, I think "less is more", so as to give less for others to latch on to, but it can introduce ambiguities that people can latch on to.
Good ending - "people put in the TIME to KNOW the doctrine!" I think this is sort of like a parable - let those with ears to HEAR understand the REAL message here. Too many feel the need to have it all spelled out to them blatantly, as if they need to be commanded in all things.
@@jum5238 I agree. In the current environment, everything can and will be used against you. The original press release was pretty clear when taken at face value - the opening statement about our ideals and values not changing was direct and specific. The problem is when people try to extract more than the words and add their own interpretatrions and baggage.
What I want to know is why it took 3+ months to clarify.
@@BrendonKing I would ask what clarification you needed? It was pretty clear in the original press release stated "The doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints related to marriage between a man and a woman is well known and will remain unchanged." That seems pretty clear.
@@RichardChappell1 Amen! I thought it was very clear from the beginning! I don't know why he and everyone else seems to be so confused? They clarified it from the beginning.
Thanks for presenting and discussing this clip from President Oaks. Honestly, I never doubted what the church's actual position was on this, but it's always nice to have some additional confirmation.
With that said, I'm certainly a believer of clear, unambiguous language whenever possible and that PR statement in November could have been improved, in my opinion. And like you said, it's especially important when dealing with sensitive topics such as this. Personally, I think it's possible to be compassionate and tactful, while at the same time clear on your position supporting eternal truths. I'm not always very good at it, but I've definitely noticed it's a skill you have mastered.
As far as whether the protections are enough, only time will tell. I'm sure the church saw it as we'll take as much as we can get right now.
I didn’t need this clarification to know that this was the position of the church this whole time. As one who stood for traditional marriage back in 2008 in California, I feel totally betrayed. It feels as if the church has given up on this fight and is just taking whatever consultation prize they can. Justice Thomas had made it rather clear that the previous SCOTUS ruling on this issue was on shaky ground. Like Roe, we had this win, given enough time. That’s why the left pushed this bill in the first place. I’m disgusted how many Latter Day Saint “Republicans” helped ram this through. This is the very definition of “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.” Politically, our people are very good at doing just that.
On the issue of “are these protections enough for traditional religious faiths,” I’ve heard Senator Lee’s position and I agree with him. I’ve lived through this debate long enough now to know that anytime there is a “compromise,” the alphabet community gains more ground and the traditionalist loose ground. I’ve lived the consequences of these so-called “compromises.” Frankly, I’m done compromising. I’d like to win a little ground back. Maybe get back to something resembling center. THAT is the only “compromise” I’m interested in right now. I have rights too, rights that are rooted in the very core of the US Constitution and I’m sick of them being curtailed. I’m sorry if other members or even our leaders don’t understand my position or feel the same pain, but on this issue I can not agree with the church, and that makes me sad to say.
And no, I’ll still pay my tithing, attend my Church meetings and serve in my callings. I can disagree on policy and still support the church.
“We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.” The respect for marriage act does the exact opposite of this in my opinion. Even with the so called “protections” offered in the amendments. Still grappling with the church’s support for this tbh
I agree with this. That is a question still left without answer. Are we as individual members of the church to support law such as the RFMA, or are we to fight it?
@@CwicShow I had a three page letter I wrote to the brethren about this. Chose to never send it. But still have concerns. I’ve been trying to do what you said here at the end which is to deepen and fortify my own testimony independently of all this
Alma and Amulek were told to "stand down." We are here to gain "knowledge" of good and evil. If "good" were the only thing we experienced (which is not possible because good needs the reference point of evil)... what would be the point of this mortal, fallen, veiled, natural experience? The statement defines the effort of the Church to safeguard "Church standards"... without violating the agency of those not yet ready to live those standards (the world). The statement champions our ability to live righteously within the Church... while standing down on forcing the world to do the same.
President Nelson warned us up front... only with "the guiding, directing, COMFORTING, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost" can we navigate this stretch of earth's existence.
@@CwicShow I think the Book of Mormon teaches us a lot about allowing the political process to take its course. The voice of the people is allowed in political process. Our faith does not demand us to force outcomes in a political process. If anything, I'd say that is against our faith. God values agency above all else. He was willing to lose children forever over agency. We aren't going to be judged by what others choose, just by our own process and processing of truth. The other piece of this that I think our leaders are pointing us to is HOW we show up in the public square. Do we respect choices we disagree with? Do we work within the confines of laws we don't agree with? I think Pres. Oaks was so clear about these tensions in his UofVirginia speech. These tensions are nearly impossible to navigate but essential to our covenant lives. The goal in this process is not to be right and in control, just to be part of the process and to live and work as peaceably as we can. That may be the most important light on the hill we can shine in these hard times.
Mike Lee said the amendments did not offer the protections that it was said to, so he voted against it.
Why is the church releasing confusing statements? How does that happen?
I could ask why has BYU taken a left turn, too. The 12 are the board of directors for BYU. How does it happen is the great question.
@cwicshow- but it was my understanding that the amendments that would have truly protected religious freedom weren’t included when push came to shove? This “clarification” from President Oaks was lacking for me in the sense it didn’t go into the details of which amendments actually were included and what they actually do. When many faithful, conservative groups outside the church still say it was a terrible bill, what are we to make of it all? And heavens knows, if Mitt Romney supports something allll our alarms bells should be going off. He has not proven himself to be someone I trust!
I sense understatement, Sister. And I agree with you.
Craig, I cannot find the recent show you did about the temple, but I wanted to let you know that we went right after your broadcast and you are RIGHT!! It is beyond WONDERFUL in the way only the Lord could do it. How sweet it truly is!!❤️
I’m 100% agree with what you are saying,in my family we all got so confused with the church release statement respect marriage act , thank you because in your first video you asked for a clarification of this statement and President Oaks just did, thank you for this wonderful video ❤🇺🇸🙏🏻 (senator Lee is my favorite)
Just as a side note elder Christofferson brother is gay and I 🤔 elder gong son is too?
Also, what amendments were there to the Respect for Marriage Act, that assured religious freedoms to institutions? As I understand it, all the amendments , such as the Lee amendment, that would have given more protection to individual religious freedoms, weren’t even introduced until after the church Three their support to the Act; and the sad thing is, non of them passed. Senator Lee’s amendment was voted down. Again, what amendments were already in place to protect individual religious freedoms, when the church threw their support to the Respect for Marriage Act? Did they truly believe saving institutional religious freedoms were enough to protect individual families from child indoctrination on our schools? Who exactly does that live up to the ideals of the Proclamation on the Family, when families have no religious freedoms in this new law?
Thanks, Greg. Good explanation and clarification of The Church's stand in these matters. We as members, including myself, need to study and ponder the Gospel and the doctrine diligently, and attend The Temple often, to strengthen us in these last days.
100% agree. Had all the same concerns. It's troubling when I have to keep trying to defend the church to my Gen Z family members who have been very confused due to the silence. The church comes in super late to say some people may have been confused due to the media. THATS exactly .....why "we" need to be out in front of the spin. Being BOLD and CLEAR is essential. Communicating things clearly saves fragile or developing testimonies. And I agree with you....I think it's SUPER SMUG when members just shrug off other peoples struggle and say "wheat and tares". It's super pharisaical .
I wouldn't say those like myself "shrug off" other people's struggles. However, as I keep saying, the doctrine of the family has proven to be one of the biggest sifters in the Church. Which has always seemed strange to me, considering how core of a doctrine it is. As Elder Christofferson said, it's as much a part of the Plan of Salvation as the Fall and Atonement. It's been my observation that the members who struggle with this doctrine do so from a lack of Gospel study. When President Nelson mentioned "lazy learners," I got the impression he was talking about the Millenial and Gen Z generation most of all.
@@jaredshipp9207 I agree mostly. I've been really surprised (and a more than a bit disappointed tbh) how many in my parents and grandparents generations have *not* taught their children and are unwilling to learn themselves because they feel like they have nothing else to learn.
@@jaredshipp9207 Yes. Thats why I qualified it most specifically to Gen Z. I think when 99% of us were 15-22 years old , we were "lazy learners" as far as strict gospel study . I have less empathy with Boomers being rocked by every little "issue" But I am very concerned about Gen Z. As a single myself, I see just how easily they can be swayed. My niece is in elementary school in Utah and her friend is wanting to be trans and my nephew said he's constantly being fed LGBT narratives at school and among his friends. They are saturated in it. Something that boomers, the silent generation , gen X and even most Millennials did not have as a constant issue in their face and among their social circles at that young stage of development where the minds are very malleable. And we who fight against it, would appreciate a little more ammo or musket fire ;)
Have you read The Proclamation on the Family? Why the need to parse out a PR statement when the doctrine has been front and center not only since Adam and Eve first walked out of the garden, but was declared with the Proclamation. No need to coddle, persuade, or mince words. It is what it is and the government can do what it does!
@@robertandersen6387 No. whats the proclamation on the family? Never read it;)
We fight not against men, but "spiritual wickedness in high places"
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
@@melissamaertz thanks, Melissa, for keeping me honest. I hope we triggered some thought about what is really going on. The Apostle Paul saw our day with such clarity.
My Ward has had several mental health councillors move in over the last 10 years. A couple of them have been put in as leadership and teaching positions, then promptly turned every lesson and activity into talking about how depressed and awful the sisters lives are. The problem is the weak minded women of the Ward who are easily influenced are now completely focused on their struggles and it's the only thing they talk about. They have learned this will get them individual attention and people bringing them gifts. It's just another aspect of the degrading of our society
100%. We are a weak people and getting weaker. People used to power through and struggle together without wearing their struggles on their shoulder like a badge of honor for the simple need for sympathy. God knows this though, when one door closes, another will open. The door in the USA is closing, I’m curious to see where the next door will be opened and when.
@@dcarts5616 I'm thinking we need to take serious consideration of President Nelson's pronouncement that the Rome temple marked a hinge point of history. Other hinge points were Noah's flood, Christ's life, death and resurrection, and the opening of the last dispensation through the beginning of the restoration through Joseph Smith. President Benson was our Captain Moroni calling the righteous to the Title of Liberty. President Nelson from his first day as prophet, seer and revelator started urgently preparing us to face the challenges quickly coming (which escalated with 2020).
We are not at the beginning of this war, we are in the final battle.
@@dcarts5616 What's next is the New Jerusalem at Jackson county, and it is in our life time - a few years from now. Hope to see you on the other side.
Not surprising lol. My experience with "mental health counselors" (LDS Services no less) has been dismal.
@@vendingdudes they are the worst! You’d be better off seeing a tarot card reader for advice than anything the godless LDS Services therapists can offer.
When the first statement from the church came out in support of this bill I took the matter to the Lord and the response was: "My servants are doing my bidding." and then my attention was immediateliy turned to Mathew 10:16.
So grateful for this clarification from Oaks and Cwic media. I didn't even know people were interpreting our support for this bill any other way. It was obvious to me that the bigger issue was to ensure we retain our rights as well.
I’m right there with you. It’s weird to me how people are getting confused. It seemed very clear to me too. It’s a non-issue
What about the freedom of conscience of business owners of bakery, wedding photography, flower arrangers, etc., who are put out of business for refusing to violate their belief in marriage between one man and one woman? They are willing to provide already created products/services, but not ones that require them to violate their beliefs with individual creations.
@@suzannelaw2219 well absolutely. When the church was spending lots of money in California over prop8 I couldn't understand why we would do that if we believe in free agency. It took much prayer and some fasting to receive the answer that when the laws of the land protect a certain group of people, it infringes on other groups of people freedom to disagree with that thing. The church didn't oppose same sex marriage laws because they dislike gay people, they opposed it because once it was protected by law, one could argue that every public entity such as churches, schools, businesses, etc
had to cater to them or risk being sued, shut down, or penalized somehow.(which we were). Thats where this bill comes in. We have already lost the fight against same sex marriage and the law of the land, and now we are trying to do damage control and buoy up what remaining freedoms we have left, while simultaneously showing our love and support for those of a different belief system, hoping that they will also recognize our right to believe how, where or what we may, as well.
Come Follow Me was to help alleviate some of this. We need to study the gospel in our homes. The Scriptures and the Proclamation of the Family are very clear as to Heavenly Fathers position on this. Marriage is between a man and a woman. When people say they need additional clarity, that tells me they have not been studying the scriptures OR attending the Temple which reinforces Heavenly Father’s position on this matter.
And when they need additional clarity, they are looking for, our hoping for, a different answer. When we ask, we should ask with real intent - the intention to obey and be faithful to the answers God gives - not with the hope the answer will change to please us.
19:44 I have a loved one, who seems to be losing the spirit over a trauma. He had clear inspiration, then the pain hit, declared they no longer believed in the principal they once did because something must be wrong with them, then oddly fasted with the purpose of gaining the answer they wanted now, opposite of what they received. I tried to help. I'm praying. But I'll admit, this reminds me that now is possibly the worst time to fall off the spiritual wagon. Guess I should pray harder, as the person I knew wouldn't want this. Anywho, thanks for the reminder. Good video.
Hey Greg, I saw on another video about this a comment that mentioned that the LDS church apparently invited the Gay Men's Choir to perform at the Washington DC temple which disturbed me. I looked it up and did find stories confirming it online, but mainly coming from sites that are not really "friendly" to the church. However, assuming the church did invite that choir to the temple, that really concerns me. I'm concerned with the direction the church is going, at least from a PR perspective, on issues like this. Especially since I've dedicated my life to this church/gospel and left my gay lifestyle behind, but increasingly it seems the church is willing to justify that lifestyle in others.
Yes it's true. It's not the act that bothers me, it's the confusion.
Gathering Israel is the MOST important work. Remember President Nelson's warning about getting the holy ghost and spiritual survival? HOME centered church.. starting to all fit together now? We've been preparing. We've been warned. It's time for the TEST.
There are some woke members in my ward that bring their ideology into every lesson. It frustrates many of the other members and had caused some contention. A stronger stance and greater clarity would be helpful from the brethren.
We miss your channel Jared, please consider coming back.
Challenge the woke members to read the Proclamation on the family. And ask them if they support or reject that document.
@@carlatamanczyk3891 they always say they believe it in a tortuous sort of way. My wife stopped wanting to be my wife and be my "partner"🤮
Yesterdays segment on the Midnight Mormon channel was a must watch! “Debunking the top 3 Anti - Mormon Lies Told to Gay Members of the Church”. It was excellent!
"God loves you just as you are?"
@@rolandsmith4394Why would that be a lie? One can love someone for who they are, while still encouraging that same person reaches to seek the bar that was set, a high bar even by a loving entity, right?
@@dcarts5616 If God loves us the way we were, he wouldn't have sacrificed 1/3 of His children to give us this earthly experience. The only logical conclusion is that He loves our potential. This Earth is fallen, craven, sensual, and devilish. When we "crucify Jesus afresh" by willfully and brazenly sinning, I can hardly imagine He loves that.
@@dcarts5616 more: if God loved us in this fallen state He wouldn't encourage us (nor would we encourage ourselves) to do the work of perfection.
@CwicMedia As always, I enjoy watching your channel for the commentary. I appreciate you bringing up the current events for discussion. Thanks for hosting!
Glad you enjoy it!
To me, the P.R. statement should have clearly read that the church supports "the right of choice" of individuals to enter into same sex marriage but does not support the act of the marriage as being true marriage as defined by God. We all need to support each other's free agency to choose. Had it said something similar to that, I think it would be a lot less confusing. I agree, Greg. The statement sent out was poorly written and confusing.
Amen! You worded it perfectly! Would you like to apply for a job in the Church PR dept?
The direction the Church has been going, and already could be there if it were not so cautious, is to require all those wanting a temple sealing, including those wanting a temple marriage, to be married civilly first. This would make all temple ceremonies purely religious and therefore fully protected by the First Amendment. A big step in this direction has already been taken by allowing couples who have been married civilly to be sealed without a waiting period. Many countries already recognize only marriages performed by a government official; the Church could be pro-active if it would let go of the last vestiges of when Utah was a de facto theocracy, a very imperfect one, under Brigham Young. Keep the ordinances pure without fear of government intrusion and let Babylon destroy itself all on its own.
Good video, thanks for all that you do. You confront and unpack a lot of issues.
I appreciate that.
Good stuff, Greg! I appreciate that the Brethren have a tough job and face very difficult decisions. It's clear they are struggling with messaging. They need our prayers now more than ever. I absolutely agree that the best thing we can do right now to sustain them is to improve our own gospel understanding and the strength of our testimonies individually.
My concern with what Elder Oaks said is how he mentioned that same sex marriage is already the law of the land so the new law doesn't change that. That is true, but Supreme Court rulings get overturned all the time. There was a real possibility that the Supreme Court could have reversed that decision. But now that the legality of same sex marriage is codified into law, that becomes much more unlikely. Supporting the new law seems like an unnecessary compromise since religious rights are already protected by the Constitution as you mentioned.
Yup. Seemed rather clear had the so-called “Respect for Marriage Act” not been passed, the previous SCOTUS ruling was on it’s way out soon enough, just like Roe. That’s why the Democrats pushed this bill in the first place as a safeguard.
Agree
How many of our so-called LGBTQ brothers and sisters (as in children of our Heavenly Father who are not members of the Church) actually want:
1. to be baptized and confirmed, to make a covenant to live the law of chastity, no sexual acts outside of a monogamous, heterosexual marriage?
2. to be active in the church alongside mostly traditional families, varied, diverse to be sure (exclude homosexuality, cross-dressers, bisexuals from "diverse", please), but who are striving to live by the proclamation on the family?
It doesn't make sense. If you are converted, your identity becomes a child of God, a child of Christ even, according to the scriptures, taking His name upon you. You can be a former lesbian, but not an LGBTQ member of the Church. You can't be an L, a G, a B, a T, or a Q member of the Church. You can be a member of the Church struggling with any commandment. We all struggle to become Saints, rejecting the natural man or woman in us. But in the end, you must choose between drugs and Christ, between pornography and Christ, between greed and Christ, between boating and Christ, between adultery and Christ, between fornication and Christ. Can you forever be in the 12-step program and say, "I struggle with addiction, but I want a temple recommend and I am "in". I will continue to drink liquor because that is who I am, and God loves me" (and He does!), and "I am going to bear my testimony every two months in Sacrament Meeting, and in Sunday School, proclaiming I am a BCOHFSWA member of the Church, Amen?" (BCOHFSWA, Beloved Child Of Heavenly Father Struggling With Addiction). We should love everyone. The second principle of the Gospel, however, after Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is Repentance, which means turning TO Him, AWAY from anything that is ungodly. I trust that the thousands of people around the world staying in or joining the Church do not do so to live or affirm the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or queer lifestyle. Father, mother, child, children, extended familes. The Family: A Proclamation. A prophecy.
!! An important distinction about the temple ordinance... We do not perform marriages in the temple, we perform sealings. A couple must come to the temple with their civil marriage license in hand. Meaning they are married prior to coming to the temple for the sealing ordinance... Mormon culture commonly misstated and misunderstands this idea. It's become common practice to refer to it as "a temple marriage", which is not actually the case... Consequently, because it is not a marriage but strictly a religious ordance ("sealing), one cannot demand to be married in a temple... It's brilliant line of defense from encroaching secularism.
That's a very new policy as of 2021.
@@candlewatt It's always been the doctrine. You just haven't understood it.
David I agree with you in that the Church does not have the authority to marry anyone. That authority belongs to the State. The State currently allows a marriage to be performed by someone outside the State. The State could come out tomorrow and dictate that all marriages performed must include same sex marriage. That would include the Temples.
@@sistermarch660 you got a marriage license
@@sistermarch660 refer to the wording of the sealing, please.
D&C teaches that the brethren are supposed to focus on repentance and baptism. When the brethren get involved with politics it often becomes awkward, as illustrated here. My impression is that the messaging is confusing for two reasons: they are trying to walk a fine line in not offending anyone and second, they were willing to placate the left more than the right in their messaging because it's safer. This is how I see it.
Yes too many "Trying to serve the Lord without offending the Devil".
I don't think the Brethren care about which side of the political aisle they're supposedly placating or offending. That's not a concern for them, and it shouldn't be for us.
Repentance & baptism? Wow! Wouldn't that be different. Back then God called the USA wicked and perverse. What is it now?
@@byrokinsman2576hey couldn’t care less I agree, but only the blind don’t know that one party is not afraid to encourage violence, fund it, support it, and act like they don’t do it.
This is SPOT ON. Thank you!
You mentioned the wheat and the tares. I agree with you, that waiting for people to be sifted may lack some charity, but President Benson taught that that parable was about the church specifically. The parable teaches that the Lord stops his servants from separating early, like they wanted to do. What incredible patience and constraint the brethren must show not to step in boldly and more quickly. It reminds me of Alma and Amulek, who were asked to stay their hand and bare with patience the suffering of the saints, including probably Amulek's own wife and children. What a burden! It would not surprise me to learn that the brethren hurt and mourn that they are not being allowed to be more explicit yet, because the Lord is requiring the wheat and the tares to grow together. I believe that will lead to some difficult times ahead, but we must remember that if a prophet has been told by the Lord to stay their hand and withhold a message for a specific period of time, even though it may be tough on all involved, that the Lord is in charge and he will speak when the time is right.
I will reply with a previous reply I gave to another commenter:
It's not that I don't believe that there is a separation happening, I do. But I don't like the common approach of "let's just watch." In other words, it seems self-righteous to me. I don't think Ammon and the Sons of Mosiah thought to themselves, "well, there is a great separation, good thing we are on the right side." That's my point.
I hear you and feel the difference is in seeing what's happening WHILE still being willing to keep 'nurturing the good word of God' in others and ourselves up to the end of this battle. It's sobering but we will not retreat though our numbers may be few.
@Cwic Media That's a good point, and I don't disagree. It does seem self righteous from that perspective. I don't interpret or bring up that parable for thinking myself better, but rather, when something seems off and I feel impatient with the brethren, it gives me comfort to at least consider that the Lord may very well be behind the lack of transparency and the lack of clear communication, and that He has purposes I don't see or understand. In other words, he's keeping His servants back, and allowing them both to grow together. Just like the Brother of Jared who couldn't tell of his experience, or when Nephi had the spirit stop his utterance. Those scenarios would be frustrating, and I'm more rying to empathize with the leaders. If they are being told to remain tight-lipped by the Lord, and we are begging for greater clarification, we may only be adding to their burden. But you are right, self-righteousness isn't helpful and should be avoided at all costs, and we shouldn't stop sharing things we know to be true. Tares xan be turned into wheat, and vice versa. So we need to stay vigilant and stand for truth wherever and whenever we can.
Thank you for all you do to help myself and others understand the gospel and the world (Babylon), especially when they collide! I always look to your explanations and knowledge to help me understand the complexities that some of these collisions present! Thank you again for taking the time to study these dilemmas and bestowing your expertise and understanding to those of us who know quite a bit less in some of these areas. I really appreciate you!
Once again Oaks does a great job providing clarity. I understood the Churches position to be what Oaks explained back when they made the statements. But it did require some reading between the lines. Too bad they couldn't have included the thinking more prominently in the much more public press release.
We need to be patient with our leaders as they navigate through such issues. We all know how early members of the Church were discriminated against & even persecuted for things such as plural marriage, among other beliefs & practices. THEIR Constitutional rights were definitely violated at that period of time, so our leaders are cautiously & prayerfully dealing with these contemporary issues.
Being persecuted for the truth's sake is admirable according to the Bible.
Thank you. I appreciate you making this clearer to people. When I first joined the church back in 1997, my bishop said we have been directed by our leaders to read The Book of Mormon daily, and thoroughly every year (in other words reading it completely every year). I admit I was confused at first with this support for LBGTQ people, but as I kept reading my scriptures (and more, I love the prophesies) my mind was clear and my heart was calmed and I knew that the church was not changing any doctrine, just offering love to the lost and honoring the law of the land...rendering to Caesar what was Caesar's. We need to keep reading our Book of Mormon daily. That is what gives us our foundational standing and keeps our hearts strong and fearless. This is how the Lord speaks to us in daily way...like a visit with our Heavenly Father...
Thank u. He's very clear and I'm so greatful The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is steady and complies to Father's timeless Word. My prayer is we adjust our sails to match His Sail
.. sails need to be aligned with God's command.
Thanks for your thoughtful clarification. It also didn’t help seeing a member of the Seventy positioned next to trans celebrators in the photo of those in support of the Respect For Marriage Act. Confusing optics for sure. It’s one thing to vote for it but another to celebrate it.
I agree with you 💯 %. These are difficult, confusing and trying times to put it mildly and without emphasizing a doomsday focus. It is unfortunate that many religious institutions must essentially compromise or capitulate in legislation to protect religious freedoms. It does make you wonder how long the Lord will suffer the increasing corruption and degradation of morality before He comes to right all wrongs. I continue to be grateful that we have prophets, seers and revelators and that Pres. Nelson is leading the way in encouraging us to stay on the covenant path and creating and maintaining a personal relationship with the Savior. Thanks Greg.😊
You're welcome!
Jesus isn’t coming any time soon, not even within this millennia. I’m only at peace with that because I know that God lives. We’ve got a long way to go before the Redeemer comes again, as scary as that sounds.
@@dcarts5616 Very possibly. But just remember that all we need to do is hit a turning point. Once that happens, anything is on the table.
Thanks again for your coverage of these issues. It's very hard to navigate and understand the plan here. I appreciate your strong example of holding to the iron rod.
Thank you for the clarification you provide on this and many topics. I appreciate you and your show.
Thank you!
Good job Gregg. Thanks for the clarifications as always!
Glad it was helpful!
Greg, I remember out of curiosity looking on the gay Mormon website at one time and saw some of their forum was written so they really do believe the day will come when gay marriages will be performed in the temples.
Shocking but not surprising.
That will never happen.
I'm a little concerned that President Oaks is treating Obergefell as if it were law, instead of just a Supreme Court decision. While the short-term effect may appear the same, the ill-named Respect for Marriage Act does change the actual statutes, such that if a future Supreme Court overturns Obergefell (and they should, as the Obergefell decision is not constitutional), there will be an additional barrier to correcting this legal aberration, because the Act has now changed the law so that federal policy is that same-sex marriage (and possibly any other kind of marriage dreamed up in any state going forward by extension) is encoded into the statutes, and not only supported by an opinion by a few justices.
To be completely clear, the Supreme Court has no constitutional power to create law or reinterpret existing statutes and/or the Constitution in novel ways. Its purpose (along with the rest of the judicial branch) is simply to apply the law to cases, including applying the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land to disputes over what the law is.
This should be even more obvious in the wake of Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health overturning Roe v Wade, but was already a well-understood legal doctrine at least as far back as 1803's Marbury v Madison decision.
People need to read JST on the wheat and tares.
Thank you for helping us understand!
Glad it was helpful!
The church had no reason to meddle in this issue. It could have easily affirmed its position without getting into the support of federal legislation. Any government instituted rights will eventually be used by secularists to attack the church's religious liberty. This was an unnecessary appeasement policy that may come back to haunt the church.
Respectfully... please expand. I am not seeing what you mean. I believe that the Church's effort was to make sure that new law was not passed that violated the constitutional safeguards of religious freedom--the slow layering of laws that eventually fully obscure from public understanding... the "constitutional law of the land"... and enjoyment of its liberties of conscience, etc.
@@mrsjonse We already have A law safeguarding religious freedom: the first amendment. This legislation was sold on that idea, but it was actually endorsed by the church to support LGBTQ people who were struggling within the church, and to appease the anti-Mormon secular faction.
I fully expect it will come back to haunt the church, but not before it attacks us individual members first. I’ve never been more disappointed with the church, and that’s even with their Covid policies.
Not sure how any of us sitting on our pew... trumps 15 prophets, seers, revelators, and the Lord surveying the whole terrain. Expect miracles and do the homework that allows the Holy Ghost to give eyes to see and peace that reaches far beyond logic and man's "wisdom."
@@mrsjonse So the Covid shot doesn't cause heart issues? Even our leaders get things wrong sometimes. See the scriptures for more on that. Jonah, anyone? Even Nephi admits he's not perfect for heaven sakes! You can believe in the Gospel and Trust is God and see things for what they are. Sometimes, the prophet gets it wrong. How much more faith does it take to realize this and still follow him anyway?
I love your channel good work!
I appreciate that. Thank you!
Watching this video right now, the thought that came to my mind strongly, every time good compromises with evil, invariably evil overcomes the good, always.
Can you please provide a link to this speech from Pres. Oaks? I’d love to watch or read the whole thing uninterrupted. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I really appreciate your channel!
newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-oaks-church-position-respect-for-marriage-act?mibextid=Zxz2cZ
I'm so thankful that religious freedoms are being protected!
Marriage and the family were defined by the Proclamation on the Family.
The cake baker's religious belief was infringed as, I understand it, which is frightening to me. So I'm very thankful these steps were taken to preserve our beliefs as well as other people's agency.
Thank you, brother Matson, for your clarifying faith!
Except. There were loopholes. Mike Lee knew that. He tried to get it fixed. There may be problems ahead and the church may pay big fines. Romney is stupid and hopefully isn’t voted in again. Keep Mike Lee. He’s your best bet for good things to come for Utah.
@@sadiegirl1243 Worse than that, the Respect for Marriage Act is likely a first step that will then be extended to make any service offered to the public subject to "equal rights," and will force us to seperate marriage from sealings in the Temple. I believe this particular law is a trojan horse - and that Elder Oaks knows that as well.
the act doesnt protect...it actually takes away protections
currently only the church as a entity with the exampt tax status has any protection...you do not...any business you own or work for does not...and many churches do not have the exempt status the church does
the church did wrong
they should have never done what they did...and they should have known when they sent a church rep to stant celebrating the signing allong with drag queens and biden they should have realized that they went wrong somewhere and wete on the wrong side.
Yet here we are. ...still having the church on the wrong side and horrifying other christian,jews and others at our lack of standing for truth and righteousness at all times and all things....its embarressing
@@sadiegirl1243 well said senator Lee is the best hopefully everyone recognize that
@@RichardChappell1 Excellent comment and this is what I believe, too.
Nice job Greg... I think sometimes we ought to not think so hard about something so that the Spirit can explain it in His own way to our hearts. 💕
Maybe one of the next G conference talks will be on marriage is between a man and a woman again just to reinforce.
Several talks have discussed it, especially ones given by Oaks, who hopefully makes it to become prophet and president of the church.
@@dcarts5616 Yes, there are several. But hopefully this GC will have yet another.
Elder Packer in the epic Oct 73 conference said "it is not the privilege of those called as leaders to slide the Church about as though it were on castors ".
The concern I have is the Family Proclomation has not been cannonized. Therefore what happens when down the road leaders come out and disavow the teachings of former prophets and apostles as we have seen in the past...
Thank you for your talking about this. I studied this when I heard about this. I was listening to a podcast on how the church leaders went to Congress. Too kind of beg them with the proclamation that was made about families. About marriage with a man and woman.
Kind of like the profits did in the book of Mormon. How the prophets had to end up leaving. To let the apostasy happen. I feel that's what the leaders of the church had to do. To be able to protect the constitution of serving God how will our may. Thanks again, I really do like your teachings. Keep the work going. Remember what the scripture says, about the wheat and the tears. It's happening.
I know that the church still follows the proclamation on the family which is clear on this doctrine. But, the support of this marriage act has given the LGBTQIA2S+ community hope that we are moving towards fully accepting them and some day in the temple; these groups will not stop pushing the church until they are being sealed in the temple. I know seminary teachers in the church who are teaching our children, and they believe this will happen eventually...sad.
I hear that a lot, but I can't see any logical basis for that line of reasoning. Part of the problem is that so many of the activists don't live in reality and instead live in a sort of "feelings world" where feelings are somehow more real. Because the Church is telling people"Do what you want to do, we shall serve the Lord" they only hear the first and feel like it somehow justifies it.
It's kind of like the children of same sex marriage policy. So many people saw that as a softening of the doctrine, when it was a washing of hands and letting go.
@@alindalt2897 Good!
This seminary teacher does not teach that!
Thank you for this!
I had no confusion with the original statement from the church. It was clear to me, supporting other peoples rights to choose, as well as our religious freedom :-)
The brethren are always looking 5-10 years ahead. They already fought the BSA and had to separate so they know what's coming. Satan is never satisfied.
My 3 boys and my brothers had the best experiences in scouts. Not saying that others might have had a bad experience. Hopefully not many.
@@sherigraham3873 ad hominem.
The sad reality is the BSA was a legitimate danger to the safety of the young men.
@@BrendonKingI'm not certain what you are referring to, but all I can speak on is my experience. And hopefully most young men had good experiences as well. Any abuse of youth is criminal and should be treated that way. The millstone treatment.
For all their foresight and ability to "see around corners," they really drop the ball A LOT lately, don't they? My goodness. Everybody that's not plugged into CNN 24/7 could see the Rona for what it was, but somehow the church leaders couldn't, even becoming The Beast's biggest cheerleaders. They're not playing 5D chess, they're playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes.
@@omahaarealoya6067 In all fairness, likely 70% of church members in the US are not awake and maybe 30% are awake. As wickedness increases, it's very complicated. Saints lived behind the iron curtain in East Germany during the cold war. They lived under communism. They held house church. We are heading in that direction. I'm with you on the Rona but my faith was not shaken about the vax even if I disagreed, because of the tremendous complexities in and out of the church. The prophet said in the last days to keep the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the holy ghost. You make your decision.
It’s more than just protecting the temple. It also protects Bishops, Branch Presidents and Stake Presidents from having to perform marriages outside our doctrine.
I keep thinking of the OT wherein Israel was subject to the laws of the land and how difficult it made for them to honestly fulfill their religious obligations. Are we entering a period of that ourselves? I joined in the early 1970s where the church was not well known or liked or respected. That changed. I wonder if now it is changing back?
It’s coming.
Buckle up. We hang together or we hang apart. Christianity has never been easy. The 60's-80's was an illusion.
Ultimately, I am responsible for supporting what I feel is right, according to the Spirit within me. If the organization of the Church supports something different, my opinion of their actions matters little. I can’t see the ramifications those actions have. It’s not going to change that I pay tithing, participate in local Sunday and temple services, and serve where asked. My and my family’s salvation is unaffected by church actions. It is affected by my own.
Great job
Thank you
It was clarified 3 months ago when the headline came out. President' Oaks didn't say anything now, that wasn't explained then. I don't know why all the confusion? It was very clear to me then as it is still today.
I feel like as a religious person, as a conservative person, a traditional person, I'm constantly or regularly having to cede my rights and privileges away for a social experiment and government overreach.
Yup! Same.
It’s so difficult and you have to be super careful when you start using the language of rights. Once you do, you move into the territory of “endowed by their creator with unalienable rights” that governments are instituted among men to protect. As a Church that puts a lot of stock in the founding as being based on “just and holy principles”, it’s difficult to talk about rights without delineating what is God given and what is man given.
Indeed.
Yup. Do our rights come from God or not? A lot of people in the United States seriously need to ask themselves this question.
One thing that really stunk about the original press release is that other Christian groups ran with headlines that we "supported same-sex marriage" and used it as more "proof" that LDS weren't really Christians. It just looked bad at a time when Christians really need to stand together.
Why should other Christians stand for something they don't believe in?
3:50 This is a great explanation for those who ask why some can “leave” the church but not leave it alone. I think your grace and charity here is so awesome. You’re right, the church as an organization has been missing this on multiple topics. I know that wasn’t the point of you talking about this but just so others can see the parallel. Some people just want to know the whole truth and not be dismissed and told to just trust those who lead. I understand there are many who want to know why the church appeared to do something progressive.
The handbook has definitely changed. There is a person on social media right now telling people that the church has no problem with same sex attracted person's kissing and dating, as long as they don't have sex. We need more clarification.
Have you listened to Jim Bennett's thoughts on prophetic infallibility and his 400+ page response the CES Letter? I think it would be interesting to have a discussion with Jim Bennett about infallibility of Church leaders, as he's a faithful member, on your program. I find his views very helpful personally to remaining faithful within The Church.
Thank you so much for putting up this video. I have been very very unsettled about the churches statement about the defense of marriage act. I feel like the clarifying statement of president Oaks needs to be more circulated. most of my family members did not know about it until I sent it to them. And I just happened upon it by luck.
You're welcome!
They clarified it from the beginning. The pres realse clarified just fine, 3 months ago. I was not confused in the least.
Good but really, really late.
Also, Senator Lee would disagree that there are sufficient religious liberty protections for individuals.
Senator Lee is more inspired? Of course he is.
I sometimes wonder, since this life is a testing time, if some of the "confusion" over various issues that arise are also small tests of our trust in our testimony, that is, trust in God. Our older brother had to show His complete trust in our Heavenly Father.
Hello brother im from the Philippines, a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints too.yes we know that family is composed of man and woman children.church teach the family proclamation and only Man and woman
As member of the church we need to follow christ teaching.
Awesome Greg🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
Thank you!
Great job! Two things … JSJ’s statement on supporting the brethren and not speaking I’ll and 2) we are in Europe 1938, they will not let the church be shut down by government.
The Church is already on to the next fight Religious Freedom. My stake is having a youth fireside on religious freedom this month.
I think people are overthinking it. We have long been called to vote our conscience. We have long been called to protect religious freedom. We also have long established our view on marriage. The problem is, people still think the doctrine is going to change. It is not. But the Elders have been calling for us to have compassion on others who are struggling or who have different opinions. That's it. Don't confuse the way we try to have charity towards others with different views than us as a change of doctrine.
The thing is... Its the fact that they say they support it out of the church... Jesus lived and accepted everyone BUT HE ALWAYS ALSO MADE IT CLEAR THAT THERE WERE DIRE CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR ACTIONS. THERE WAS GOING TO BE A PRICE TO PAY FOR GOING AGAINST GODS COMANDMENTS...
In the past, the church and the prophets/ leaders ALWAYS made this clear! President Benson, etc. warned of these sins and always made it clear what GOD'S commandments were and what the price was for not following them and that the church followed and agreed with GOD. That's the real issue... They don't Give the warning and making it very clear what GODs words are and that the church affirms this. They should be saying "WITH LOVE" that yes they support "FREEDOM OF CHOICE", Yet they DO NOT however support Same sex Marriage or any act that goes against the word of GOD and give the warning that there are serious consequences to our actions.(THAT'S SHOWING TRUE LOVE FOR ANOTHER!) THAT'S what Jesus did.
Careful Greg, none of us would have guessed back in the 1990s what we see today and which necessitated the Proclamation on the Family. Perhaps the Brethren have foreseen possibilities in the future affecting religious freedom.
I also think it's going too far to say the Church supports same-sex marriage as law in a pluristic society. The Church's support for the Respect for Marriage Act begins and ends with whatever religious protections it provides, and without that, the Church wouldn't have been involved at all. Recognizing current law doesn't equate to the Church seeing the law as a good thing.
Lastly, while I'm the first to admit I could be more charitable (and need charity as much as anyone), understanding the doctrine of the family (a core doctrine which there really should be no confusion over) has proven to be one of the biggest sifters in the Church, separating the wheat and the tares. That's just a fact.
20:08 You are exactly correct on this point.