There is another layer to the Driscoll story. He just released a book about the Jezebel spirit and (probably) saw this as an opportunity to promote the concept and thereby the book.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like Driscoll is "ALWAYS" bringing sex/sexual sin into his sermons/PSA's (even where its not neccry-such as that man conf). Not literally ALWAYS, of course, but enough to where I sus projection. Decades ago, a pastor told me "If a pastor preaches about a particular sin on a such frequent basis that it seems superfluous: 9 times out of 10, it's an area I which HE, HIMSELF, is struggling with. That stuck with me. I blv it.
In regards to the Mark Driscoll story, you should look at the opinion piece on Julie Roys website. There were more things that happened after the fact. Mark and the pastor "reconciled" and said some really disturbing things about pastoral accountability. A quote from the article: "Here's the thing," he [Lindell] said, addressing the audience, "You have to be careful that you do not criticize people who have the anointing of God on them. Better to say nothing. Because what happens is, once you begin to criticize somebody who has the anointing on them, you're in the flesh. And once you're in the flesh, then you're moving toward unbelief. And once you move toward unbelief, then you live a barren life spiritually."
Ironically and unfortunately for him, he considers someone who's "in the flesh" (if anyone is), and doesn't believe in anything beyond himself, and lives a barren ethical and spiritual life to "have the anointing."
"Florida Man" style stories happen so much because Florida has an enormous amount of transparency when it comes to the press having access to to these types of stories. The truth is, these type of stories happen everywhere but we only hear about them from Florida because of just how much the press has access to public records.
I am sure if I had been up onstage at a Men's Conference and told them they need to tear down their idols of sports and sports figures, I would have been run out of there with torches after me!
Thank you for acknowledging the mental health issues likely at play work these 2 stores of men + Bibles + FL… we appreciate this more compassionate, less mocking tone!
Right? That's always such a disappointment when ppl espcly Christians, (triple that for pastors) when they insist on mocking a person . Im always like "is that really necc'ry? How old are you ppl?". If I'd have known H.P. was covering it, I'd have just come here & ONLY here to begin with.
As someone with a mental illness, I feel the exact opposite. Assuming bad behavior is due to mental illness is a convenient way to “other” people that we would otherwise identify with - “I would never do that I’m not mentally ill.” Please stop encouraging and rewarding this kind of excuse - it’s just ableism and not at all loving or generous.
@@Justanotherconsumer I hadn’t thought about it that way. Thank you for pointing out the harm that this kind of thinking can do. I bear what you said in mind going forward.
I listen to "The God Delusion" audiobook every several years. As a personal story of growing up in a Christian culture I find it fascinating. I keep rooting for someone to come along and show true Christian love, but then Mary Tamm begins reading the awful letters he received from Christians, and i grieve. I encourage you to listen to Dawkins reading his book and think about this person to be loved.
Dawkins has been sidelined in his movement because of his treatment of the women in it. He is trying to find some allies that don't care as much about that. He's also trying to get enough publicity that he can get speaking gigs.
After Phil said "you've already done the turkey" my WiFi went out, making the video pause, but I didn't realise, so I looked at the screen and just saw Phil and Skye staring blankly at each other and not blinking for an uncomfortably long time. So for a microsecond I legitimately thought they were about to get into a stronger men confrontation because one of them decided the other one was 'done'. Gonna watch the rest of the podcast, but first I have to go outside and check there's not a man pulling out the neighbourhood broadband cables and throwing stuff at police officers. With a bible. Edit: also, now that Phil has mentioned putting a turducken inside of an ostrich, I'd like to propose we officially name that an ostrurducken
I just read the article.😅 The man mentioned his Bible alot to folks on the ground and he urgered them to come up and share the view from up there with him. 😅😅😅😅😅
28:40 That's such a great point. I really do think theres a connection between "wokeness" and cultural christianity. Secular people have honed in on certain Christian values (human dignity, equality, etc.) but they aren't grounded in the person of Jesus. As a result you get a very passionate political project where the ends supposedly justifies the means. And various factions vying for power over one another instead of the spiritual transformation that can only come through faith in Christ's loving sacrifice.
I don't know, I left the church in my early 20's for reasons, and arrived at my wildly leftist (lol) views when I re-engage with God and the Bible instead of the particular Baptist and Pentecostal churches I was raised in. Then after 3 years finally got my SIL to stop teasing me about my woke progressive Godles Liberal views by quoting the biblical verses that led to my opinions. Plenty of atheist leftists, but also plenty of Jesus following ones as well.
I’m not sure it’s quite right to say that “secular people have honed in”. By dint of common grace, human beings have an innate understanding of the values you mentioned, even when they don’t acknowledge the author of them. I do agree with you that there can be some real negative effects to otherwise well-intentioned projects when the people involved don’t recognize the source of the good they are compelled by. In faith, I look forward to seeing Christians forming coalitions with unbelievers on many of these projects. In addition to grounding efforts in something that lasts, it would provide opportunities for conversations with our co-laborers about the God who moves us to care for the struggling and oppressed. We should also humbly admit where Christians (as a group) have failed to address a need that a secular constituency has taken up. There are things we can learn from them as well.
Driscoll did not get kicked out of the conference. He and the host pastor came back together later and reconciled in front of the entire congregation. Mark apologized and was given the opportunity to preach his planned message, fwiw.
At around 32:48 skye says Dawkins likes the fruit of Christianity and not the fruit of Islam. This might miss the point that the Christianity Dawkins might be talking about and I think is unaware of, is the secularized post-enlightenment version, while much of Islam has not yet had or has not completed a cycle of enlightenment and secularization. Thanks.
“Christianity” in a modern English speaking context is basically just about tradition and culture. Christ may be involved, but it’s not at all required.
Knowing about the science and medicine advancements that the Arab world made well before the Christian, one might argue that they had their enlightenment a long time before!
@@pastorofmuppets8834 That is my understanding, as well. The current fundamentalist retrenchment was brought about by violent Western engagement in fairly recent history. Scary thought that kind of retrenchment can happen here, too. Worth noting that Islam has "men's conferences" every Friday after prayers where men are harangued by preachers on manly virtues.
Yeah I've been a Christian all my life but Christian nationalism and the Crusades and our long history of Conquest is not the Christianity that Dawkins wants but that's part of us too . The problem with cultural Christianity is it has more culture than it does Christ
I would buy an “And the Bible” mug, but I suppose that would add to the consumeristic nature of our American Christianity. 😊. Would love that as a regular segment though! The commentary about the Stronger Men’s conference seemed accurate and had me laughing out loud! You are all amazing. Also- you should follow up on that story where John Lindell says no one should ever criticize one of “God’s Anointed” leaders!! It’s horrific!
Even if you disagree with Dusty’s policies for the sake of separation of church and state, you are literally mocking him for going after pornography and abortion. You show so much disdain for anyone who is on the “Christian right.”
What they've expressed on this podcast is nothing compared with what the "Christian right" says about them. There truly is no hate like "Christian love".
James I think he's being mocked for his approach and the ends he is wanting, not the actual laws themselves. He should be held in disdain because of his anti-Christian approach, because it is in direct conflict with Jesus' approach
In re: Iran/Israel, the relationship between Christian Nationalists and Jewish Nationalists (aka Zionists) is something that I’d love to hear more about. Muslim Nationalism is, of course, cut from the same cloth, and is definitely also a thing (q.v. Iran). I do not want the US to be like Israel, though I think American perception of Israel is maybe a bit misled in that the Jews (globally and in Israel) are not some homogenized Ashkenazic monolith because those are the Jewish people we tend to see in the US. Understanding the far right’s often outright antisemitic support of Israel (which is not at all contradictory - it gets the Jews to leave) is likely important to understanding Christian Nationalism.
I think there's also a conflating of the modern state of Israel with the historic one (Israel is God's chosen nation it must be supported no mater what! S/) as well as a difficulty separating the people from the leadership. Nuance seems to be lost on folks.
How are Muslims, in the UK practicing Ramadan, a threat to Christianity? The UK Gov. Is not telling the Christians to get out. The Gov. Is just recognizing Ramadan.
From a secular viewpoint? Yes. Christian values can create a society/culture that allows minorities to flourish, Islam for example doesn't. From a God viewpoint? Nope.
@-_-DAVe, Really?? Try Geneva circa 1545 - 1565 (or so) - the penultimate Christian society for living peaceable as a non-Christian.... I won't even get into the American colonies
@@holyfreak8 Yes, it can be worded like that. A Christian does good works BECAUSE they are saved, not in an attempt to get saved. The fruits of genuine salvation.
I'm thinking first that I hope most on this channel are believers and educated ones, but in all honesty, if anyone thinks this is not the Christian talk you grew up with, we are believers and love people, but admit that we do know there is some really strange things that happen with a Bible or something. We do see laughter but as Skye states " Something mental is going on.. " all we know and we have to laugh!!
Looking at Old Testament stories where this comes up, it’s kind of a mixed bag. Daniel doesn’t say they tried to stop others from worshipping their false gods, they just refused to do so (and got into a… heated situation). Obviously the golden calf results in a different and very bloody end. Opposition to pluralism within the community of the faithful, definitely. Other people can be wrong without interference.
@@Justanotherconsumer I guess this is where the nationalism contributes - making people feel like the boundaries of their authority are the national borders 😫 It's still worth thinking about - what does the first commandment mean in a world where not everyone has access to its subject?
I think the point of what Dawkins wants from Christianity was completely missed. To me, it's not the cultural values; it's the European centric white culture! (i.e. Keep the UK white!)
Thank you again, Holy Post, (very much) for bringing back regular length episodes. Also..We ❤Curiously Catlin🤗. Ty. Ive not known of Curtis C. before now. What a BRILLIANT, WISE man. Ty🤗.
Cultural Christianity is nothing new. I remember when I first encountered the term in college back in the 80's and how much it described the Christian experience in the US. One thing to keep in mind is that the majority of Christians are born into the faith. The Evangelical "born again" experience really only covers a subset of all Christians.
And that “born again” subset sometimes includes teachings that are the least consistent with those of Christ - racism, idolatrous nationalism, greed and other selfishness. Know them by their fruit.
- the late Richard Dawkins, i(I) do believe; thought that a widespread absolute atheism, would turn into a form of absolute nihilism within the thinking and then the behavior of people Without directly and actually admitting it
The issues with both Mark Driscoll & Richard Dawkins are multifaceted and not uniform, as both men are separated by generation, geography, culture, and spiritual backgrounds. What unites both of them though, is their need for grace and for Christ. Both men, including Dawkins, know that God exists. There are no agnostics, there are no atheists, there are only lost men and women who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (per Romans 1) out of hatred for God and out of love for self and sin. God’s written His law on the heart of man, and, compounded with the observable handiwork in the created order, leaves man without excuse. Perhaps pride is getting in the way; I don’t know what is on Richard Dawkins’ mind when he is lying in bed. Nor is there a “cultural Christian” (a term even used by the white supremacist Richard Spencer, a self proclaimed “atheist”). You’re either a Christian…or you’re not. I can only surmise, but the results of what the religion of atheism has done to his homeland of Europe no doubt has influenced Dawkins’ recent claims of “cultural Christianity”. Scotland, the same country which gave the world John Knox, Eric Liddell, & Sinclair Ferguson, is now facing a deficit for funding for programs such as social security, simply because there are not enough people, due to lenient abortion laws. Denmark has nearly eradicated image bearers of God who have Downs Syndrome via eugenics. Sweden claims an “atheism” rate of over 80%. Nothing but regression results via the advancement of “atheism”. As far as Driscoll goes, I’ll be more blunt. He’s certifiable. I remember years ago hearing MacArthur describe him as wanting to turn church into ‘South Park’. He is vulgar, has used profanity in ‘sermons’, he lies about “hearing God’s voice”, links with false teachers, and quit & fled his former Seattle church rather than man up and face church discipline via Matthew 18.
I mean I've seen plenty of folks who say that they're say they're Christian celebrate Christmas or Easter but can't articulate core tenants of Christianity nor do they show fruits of the spirit any stronger than any agnostic or atheist. Wether they are truly Christian or not ultimately belongs to God, but I wouldn't go to them expecting Christian Fellowship or spiritual advice.
While I greatly appreciate the holy post sometimes they do go a bit off the rails all those wonderful ideals that Caitlin espouses sort of the idealistic form of Christianity which has so many counterexamples that doesn't really fundamentally work but all those ideals are in Islam too... So...
If you were the keynote speaker at a Christian men's conference and followed a half naked man seductively climbing up and down, what appeared to be a stripper pole, with a swallowed sword in his mouth - how would you have handled it? At the very least, I would have been thrown off course and it would have negatively impacted my presentation. It's easy to criticize from the outside looking in, but being the next man up after an awkward, circus act at a mens conference would be extremely challenging. The rest of the story is that Driscoll honored the leader of the conference wishes and left the stage without making a scene. The audience clearly agreed with Driscoll's mild but pointed rebuke of the strange, pointless opening act. Driscoll was later invited back on the stage by the pastor who kicked him off and they had a heart to heart, restorative conversation. It's worth seeing if you want to see a fuller, clearer picture. From what I'm told, Driscoll ended up speaking later that day. What started off as what looked to be a disaster bound beginning turned into a unifying, spiritually edifying conference. As Paul Harvey would say, "And that is the rest of the story!"
That Driscoll is speaking at a conference where the organizers thought that would be a good thing to include speaks volumes about Driscoll and the conference. I know some survivors from Mars Hill. It was a disaster.
I try to witness as others to an atheist friend. Just like what the atheist your discussing is even trying to press some sort of belief of Christain values they believe something or they wouldn't try so hard to always back their belief or whatever. The over the top.bif they really didn't believe in God or Want to, they wouldn't try so hard. I've stated nicely to the proclaimed atheistist I know the same...
Did Kaitlyn say Christians come from a tradition that isn't threatened by other traditions?! WHAT?! I want to go to HER church! Among evangelicals at least, all I see is the sense of being assailed by the wicked world with their wicked ways, a circling of wagons in fear, resentment, and protection. I know she prefaced her remarks by saying that we (the church/Christians) haven't always done this (interacted with society at large) well, but Christians are threatened more than any group I can think of by a pluralistic society. Maybe I didn't understand.
Oh, save it. I've heard many Evangelicals talk about the Holy Spirit and, funny thing, it's never with "they/them" pronouns. Ditto for the Hornèd One and for any spirit in between. _You_ may think spirits are genderless, but Evangelicals sure don't. If an Evangelical says "Jezebel spirit" and you don't hear it as female-coded, sorry, you're just being naive.
Keep posting, Michael! These psychotic posts of yours will surely one day be very helpful to law enforcement officers trying to understand your actions.
For Skye - you didn’t see the guy taking his shirt off as something sexual, and I can understand your point of over judgment. However, there are many bothers in Christ who may be struggling with homosexuality and that event could’ve triggered those desires. Pretty counterproductive for a Christian men’s conference. It’s easy to run the risk of having “manly fun” and crossing the line from glorifying God and edifying the body of Christ, specifically Christian men.
Which simply highlights that men need more practice controlling their own passions. While we shouldn't cause a brother to stumble, that doesn't mean we need to live our lives through the filter of 'could this be seen as sexual'
Is noone else content with following after God and the Christian life for the comfort of God's presense in their life? For the good friend who always listens, always loves even if they don't aprove and helps and guides them to be better healthier people? Do we really need to make eternity as a selling point? As a kid the entire concept of an eternity with my churchmates was enough to make me hope it wasnt true. Being good just for eternal bliss seems so selfishly motivated.
C'mon. All Dawkins is saying is that he would rather live in a country like Norway than one like Turkey. He is saddened by the prospect of the beautiful and uniquely English traditions and music and architecture and common days of celebration disappearing. Seems like a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
Also, Skye are you talking about ministry conferences related to the new apostolic reformation? When people want you to believe that their brand of the miraculous is the real thing they set you up with the spectacle- even in the comments below I see true believers here 😬
- well Toyz 'R' Us but not the stuff for us man (?) come on that can't be in that case but in the case over there down that aisle and not this one over here
One point on Richard Dawkins, from a British Christian: We don't have anything like "Christian Nationalism" in Britain, anything like you do in the US. No-one is even suggesting changing our society into a Christian Theocracy, in the way that some Republicans are in the US. We have just as many kooky right-wingers as you do ( ... Liz Truss 😲 ... ) but we (thankfully) don't have the same connection between the right wing and the Christian lunatic fringe that you do. We have a different lunatic fringe exhibiting cult-like behaviour (e.g. Brexit fanatics), and we have the same racism driving a fear of immigrants as you, but no-one wants a theocracy. We've had state-sponsored religion for ever, and Bishops taking seats in our House of Lords the whole time. Now we have King Charles III in place of the Pope, as Defender of the Faith. We're so over that now. We've had theocracy burnt out of our system. Richard Dawkins just likes Christmas presents, Easter eggs, and Carols from Kings. And maybe he doesn't like immigrants who bring a different culture (i.e. faith) with them. To suggest he is in any way agreeing with Christian Nationalism is just so far out of left field that it's swinging back in from the right!
If a pastor at a half decent church wants to loose his job, go ahead and introduce David French / Russell Moore nonsense to try to guilt the Church into not supporting Trump.
@@3eyedcyclops if you understand the new covenant, you’d understand that there are no sacred buildings or services. It’s the new way of spiritual life. Your analysis assumes a “service” is what God wants. You may want to figure out what actually happened because of Jesus. It wasn’t services. But hey, this podcast is so full of pseudo spirituality. Even one of them was booted from being a pastor. Cheers.
@@3eyedcyclops Right because you know what I think. But you don’t. I never said that. But you imagination is strong. So strong that it deludes you to the evil that is Biden. Biden is terrible. But you just keep bashing Trump. You support Hamas if you are for Biden. You have great company of believers. Fani Willis. Ok. Enough. I have one more response for you and you will be ignored.
First, we don't like Driscoll, and the entire event....now let's throw in a criticism of Jezebel wording....wow...straw man....Phil sums it up, nothing to consider here...
Keep posting, Michael! These psychotic posts of yours will surely one day be very helpful to law enforcement officers trying to understand your actions.
@@robbower5489 Your thoughts, beliefs, and entire worldview have all of the nuance of a bumper sticker slogan. There, now you've heard the word "nuance" twice in your life.
Oh, great, we have a new straw man. It's the consumer christianity. Wow, essentially, we have people that do things, say things, and now they are this weeks group to straw man. Couldn't it just be an evaluation of Mark Driscol? But no, it has to be a rip on people that are simply "guilty of being there." Hmmm, if you enjoy this chin wagging, carry on.
There is another layer to the Driscoll story. He just released a book about the Jezebel spirit and (probably) saw this as an opportunity to promote the concept and thereby the book.
I sure hope nobody buys his book. He has should not be allowed to speak
Precisely. It was a publicity stunt to promote his book.
came here to say this...
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like Driscoll is "ALWAYS" bringing sex/sexual sin into his sermons/PSA's (even where its not neccry-such as that man conf). Not literally ALWAYS, of course, but enough to where I sus projection.
Decades ago, a pastor told me "If a pastor preaches about a particular sin on a such frequent basis that it seems superfluous: 9 times out of 10, it's an area I which HE, HIMSELF, is struggling with.
That stuck with me. I blv it.
In regards to the Mark Driscoll story, you should look at the opinion piece on Julie Roys website. There were more things that happened after the fact. Mark and the pastor "reconciled" and said some really disturbing things about pastoral accountability.
A quote from the article: "Here's the thing," he [Lindell] said, addressing the audience, "You have to be careful that you do not criticize people who have the anointing of God on them. Better to say nothing. Because what happens is, once you begin to criticize somebody who has the anointing on them, you're in the flesh. And once you're in the flesh, then you're moving toward unbelief. And once you move toward unbelief, then you live a barren life spiritually."
Yikes!
They can all go repent, then they can talk about accountability. Thebstate of conservative Christian "manhood."
Ironically and unfortunately for him, he considers someone who's "in the flesh" (if anyone is), and doesn't believe in anything beyond himself, and lives a barren ethical and spiritual life to "have the anointing."
"Florida Man" style stories happen so much because Florida has an enormous amount of transparency when it comes to the press having access to to these types of stories. The truth is, these type of stories happen everywhere but we only hear about them from Florida because of just how much the press has access to public records.
There may be some truth to that. But on the other hand, it's Florida, so...
I am sure if I had been up onstage at a Men's Conference and told them they need to tear down their idols of sports and sports figures, I would have been run out of there with torches after me!
Thank you for acknowledging the mental health issues likely at play work these 2 stores of men + Bibles + FL… we appreciate this more compassionate, less mocking tone!
Right? That's always such a disappointment when ppl espcly Christians, (triple that for pastors) when they insist on mocking a person . Im always like "is that really necc'ry? How old are you ppl?". If I'd have known H.P. was covering it, I'd have just come here & ONLY here to begin with.
Agreed! The more compassionate approach is more Christ-like.
As someone with a mental illness, I feel the exact opposite.
Assuming bad behavior is due to mental illness is a convenient way to “other” people that we would otherwise identify with - “I would never do that I’m not mentally ill.”
Please stop encouraging and rewarding this kind of excuse - it’s just ableism and not at all loving or generous.
@@Justanotherconsumer I hadn’t thought about it that way. Thank you for pointing out the harm that this kind of thinking can do. I bear what you said in mind going forward.
The 1st story in the other episode was not mental health.
The stinks of male white privilege
I listen to "The God Delusion" audiobook every several years. As a personal story of growing up in a Christian culture I find it fascinating. I keep rooting for someone to come along and show true Christian love, but then Mary Tamm begins reading the awful letters he received from Christians, and i grieve.
I encourage you to listen to Dawkins reading his book and think about this person to be loved.
Turkey, Duck, and Chicken are the three layers of meat. Not to be outdone by the Four Horsemeals of the Eggporkalypse.
Dawkins has been sidelined in his movement because of his treatment of the women in it. He is trying to find some allies that don't care as much about that. He's also trying to get enough publicity that he can get speaking gigs.
Also his transphobia and tendency to say indefensible things. But yes, he lacks the clout he used to have.
Thank you Kaitlin for talking about the Jezebel spirit being dragged into this. Why not the Ahab spirit?
“The Turducken of consumer Christianity.” Absolutely priceless!
After Phil said "you've already done the turkey" my WiFi went out, making the video pause, but I didn't realise, so I looked at the screen and just saw Phil and Skye staring blankly at each other and not blinking for an uncomfortably long time.
So for a microsecond I legitimately thought they were about to get into a stronger men confrontation because one of them decided the other one was 'done'.
Gonna watch the rest of the podcast, but first I have to go outside and check there's not a man pulling out the neighbourhood broadband cables and throwing stuff at police officers.
With a bible.
Edit: also, now that Phil has mentioned putting a turducken inside of an ostrich, I'd like to propose we officially name that an ostrurducken
I just read the article.😅 The man mentioned his Bible alot to folks on the ground and he urgered them to come up and share the view from up there with him. 😅😅😅😅😅
28:40 That's such a great point. I really do think theres a connection between "wokeness" and cultural christianity.
Secular people have honed in on certain Christian values (human dignity, equality, etc.) but they aren't grounded in the person of Jesus.
As a result you get a very passionate political project where the ends supposedly justifies the means. And various factions vying for power over one another instead of the spiritual transformation that can only come through faith in Christ's loving sacrifice.
I don't know, I left the church in my early 20's for reasons, and arrived at my wildly leftist (lol) views when I re-engage with God and the Bible instead of the particular Baptist and Pentecostal churches I was raised in. Then after 3 years finally got my SIL to stop teasing me about my woke progressive Godles Liberal views by quoting the biblical verses that led to my opinions. Plenty of atheist leftists, but also plenty of Jesus following ones as well.
I’m not sure it’s quite right to say that “secular people have honed in”. By dint of common grace, human beings have an innate understanding of the values you mentioned, even when they don’t acknowledge the author of them. I do agree with you that there can be some real negative effects to otherwise well-intentioned projects when the people involved don’t recognize the source of the good they are compelled by. In faith, I look forward to seeing Christians forming coalitions with unbelievers on many of these projects. In addition to grounding efforts in something that lasts, it would provide opportunities for conversations with our co-laborers about the God who moves us to care for the struggling and oppressed. We should also humbly admit where Christians (as a group) have failed to address a need that a secular constituency has taken up. There are things we can learn from them as well.
@@Wren_Farthing❤
@@Wren_Farthing 👍
Driscoll did not get kicked out of the conference. He and the host pastor came back together later and reconciled in front of the entire congregation. Mark apologized and was given the opportunity to preach his planned message, fwiw.
Mark did not apologize and John Lindell made that clear in a statement Wednesday. They’re not on good terms
I am so happy to see the video episodes being uploaded to UA-cam! Thank you thank you thank you!!!
What if the media I marinate in has a lot of butt news and ukulele?🤔
At around 32:48 skye says Dawkins likes the fruit of Christianity and not the fruit of Islam. This might miss the point that the Christianity Dawkins might be talking about and I think is unaware of, is the secularized post-enlightenment version, while much of Islam has not yet had or has not completed a cycle of enlightenment and secularization. Thanks.
“Christianity” in a modern English speaking context is basically just about tradition and culture.
Christ may be involved, but it’s not at all required.
Knowing about the science and medicine advancements that the Arab world made well before the Christian, one might argue that they had their enlightenment a long time before!
@@pastorofmuppets8834 That is my understanding, as well. The current fundamentalist retrenchment was brought about by violent Western engagement in fairly recent history. Scary thought that kind of retrenchment can happen here, too. Worth noting that Islam has "men's conferences" every Friday after prayers where men are harangued by preachers on manly virtues.
@@knutanderswik7562 We've just heard in this video about similar Christian men's groups too!
Yeah I've been a Christian all my life but Christian nationalism and the Crusades and our long history of Conquest is not the Christianity that Dawkins wants but that's part of us too . The problem with cultural Christianity is it has more culture than it does Christ
Caitlyn, you are worthy of every opportunity before you. You bring such hope for God's church in the world and our part in it. Thank God for you!
A flag pole is also idolatrous.
I've long thought the pledge of allegiance is idolatrous
I would buy an “And the Bible” mug, but I suppose that would add to the consumeristic nature of our American Christianity. 😊. Would love that as a regular segment though! The commentary about the Stronger Men’s conference seemed accurate and had me laughing out loud! You are all amazing. Also- you should follow up on that story where John Lindell says no one should ever criticize one of “God’s Anointed” leaders!! It’s horrific!
Even if you disagree with Dusty’s policies for the sake of separation of church and state, you are literally mocking him for going after pornography and abortion. You show so much disdain for anyone who is on the “Christian right.”
What they've expressed on this podcast is nothing compared with what the "Christian right" says about them. There truly is no hate like "Christian love".
That’s a strawman.
James I think he's being mocked for his approach and the ends he is wanting, not the actual laws themselves.
He should be held in disdain because of his anti-Christian approach, because it is in direct conflict with Jesus' approach
@@pastorofmuppets8834 outlawing the premeditated murder of children in the womb would be rad
no one made in the image ought to be disdained whether they acknowledge that image or not
In re: Iran/Israel, the relationship between Christian Nationalists and Jewish Nationalists (aka Zionists) is something that I’d love to hear more about.
Muslim Nationalism is, of course, cut from the same cloth, and is definitely also a thing (q.v. Iran).
I do not want the US to be like Israel, though I think American perception of Israel is maybe a bit misled in that the Jews (globally and in Israel) are not some homogenized Ashkenazic monolith because those are the Jewish people we tend to see in the US.
Understanding the far right’s often outright antisemitic support of Israel (which is not at all contradictory - it gets the Jews to leave) is likely important to understanding Christian Nationalism.
I think there's also a conflating of the modern state of Israel with the historic one (Israel is God's chosen nation it must be supported no mater what! S/) as well as a difficulty separating the people from the leadership. Nuance seems to be lost on folks.
This is a GREAT point. I too would like to hear a deep-dive on the subject.
How are Muslims, in the UK practicing Ramadan, a threat to Christianity? The UK Gov. Is not telling the Christians to get out. The Gov. Is just recognizing Ramadan.
They aren't at all. Some people are confusing the age of the crusades with current events.
I hope you clip out the turdukin section!
"What media are we marinating in that takes us away from hope and humility?" Great question from Skye.
Dawkins sees Christians as "useful".
Are "Christian Values" worth anything without Christ?
No.
Isaiah 64:6.
@@patrickc3419 Values are a consequence of living in Christ
From a secular viewpoint? Yes. Christian values can create a society/culture that allows minorities to flourish, Islam for example doesn't.
From a God viewpoint? Nope.
@-_-DAVe,
Really?? Try Geneva circa 1545 - 1565 (or so) - the penultimate Christian society for living peaceable as a non-Christian....
I won't even get into the American colonies
@@holyfreak8
Yes, it can be worded like that. A Christian does good works BECAUSE they are saved, not in an attempt to get saved. The fruits of genuine salvation.
Every time Springfield is in the news, it’s something James River did 😭
Is French Fridays now locked behind a pay wall?
I'm thinking first that I hope most on this channel are believers and educated ones, but in all honesty, if anyone thinks this is not the Christian talk you grew up with, we are believers and love people, but admit that we do know there is some really strange things that happen with a Bible or something. We do see laughter but as Skye states " Something mental is going on.. " all we know and we have to laugh!!
So how is a mariachi band weird?
(Insert Q taunting Picard with a mariachi band clip.)
I spit my drink out when Skye said "crotch Christianity". That is the exact word for Texas Republicans masquerading as serious believers.
Way more than not, the pictures of the guests on the banner look nothing like the actual person during the interview.
Isn't opposition to pluralism a common value of the Abrahamic faiths?
Looking at Old Testament stories where this comes up, it’s kind of a mixed bag. Daniel doesn’t say they tried to stop others from worshipping their false gods, they just refused to do so (and got into a… heated situation).
Obviously the golden calf results in a different and very bloody end. Opposition to pluralism within the community of the faithful, definitely. Other people can be wrong without interference.
@@Justanotherconsumer I guess this is where the nationalism contributes - making people feel like the boundaries of their authority are the national borders 😫
It's still worth thinking about - what does the first commandment mean in a world where not everyone has access to its subject?
I think the point of what Dawkins wants from Christianity was completely missed. To me, it's not the cultural values; it's the European centric white culture! (i.e. Keep the UK white!)
Wow. This is the state of "Manhood" in conservative Christianity. It is sad. They were both wrong. When are these men going to repent? Wow😢.😢 😢😢
Tank and Chuck Norris?!!!! YEAH!!!
And Mr. T...
@@greglogan7706 :😮
- they had an episode with Turducken Sandwiches as so in that of the 'Longmire' tv series if my memory serves me correctly
Thank you again, Holy Post, (very much) for bringing back regular length episodes.
Also..We ❤Curiously Catlin🤗. Ty.
Ive not known of Curtis C. before now. What a BRILLIANT, WISE man. Ty🤗.
Endorsing the observance of Ramadan is absolutely Christian.
I guess that's why Dawkins
couldn't do it. And why these so-called Christian nationalists ought to look around and see who they are standing with
This is a Bible Conference? Nothing sounds like a Bible conference. ???
I hope someone informed Curtis on how to pronounce Kaitlyn’s last name.
- the song MONKEY MAN/The Rolling Stones
I'm thinking walk out , walk out, this doesn't sound like A Christian conference.. idk..
Cultural Christianity is nothing new. I remember when I first encountered the term in college back in the 80's and how much it described the Christian experience in the US. One thing to keep in mind is that the majority of Christians are born into the faith. The Evangelical "born again" experience really only covers a subset of all Christians.
And that “born again” subset sometimes includes teachings that are the least consistent with those of Christ - racism, idolatrous nationalism, greed and other selfishness.
Know them by their fruit.
@@JustanotherconsumerEqually true of many, many Christians “born into the faith.” I’ve witnessed it for 54 years since I accepted Christ.
@@battlejitney2197broad is the road.
I'm sure some Florida people are upset.. Idk
- dis co disco duck we're in luck cluck cluck cluck i(I)'ve heard this before at one church and the pastor was dressed like a penguin
- the late Richard Dawkins, i(I) do believe; thought that a widespread absolute atheism, would turn into a form of absolute nihilism within the thinking and then the behavior of people Without directly and actually admitting it
Velociraptor ... that's what goes outside of a turkey
Driscoll: I think the man doth protest to much. Why does he always have to talk about being a manly man. Hmm 🤔 💭
The issues with both Mark Driscoll & Richard Dawkins are multifaceted and not uniform, as both men are separated by generation, geography, culture, and spiritual backgrounds. What unites both of them though, is their need for grace and for Christ.
Both men, including Dawkins, know that God exists. There are no agnostics, there are no atheists, there are only lost men and women who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (per Romans 1) out of hatred for God and out of love for self and sin. God’s written His law on the heart of man, and, compounded with the observable handiwork in the created order, leaves man without excuse. Perhaps pride is getting in the way; I don’t know what is on Richard Dawkins’ mind when he is lying in bed. Nor is there a “cultural Christian” (a term even used by the white supremacist Richard Spencer, a self proclaimed “atheist”). You’re either a Christian…or you’re not. I can only surmise, but the results of what the religion of atheism has done to his homeland of Europe no doubt has influenced Dawkins’ recent claims of “cultural Christianity”. Scotland, the same country which gave the world John Knox, Eric Liddell, & Sinclair Ferguson, is now facing a deficit for funding for programs such as social security, simply because there are not enough people, due to lenient abortion laws. Denmark has nearly eradicated image bearers of God who have Downs Syndrome via eugenics. Sweden claims an “atheism” rate of over 80%. Nothing but regression results via the advancement of “atheism”.
As far as Driscoll goes, I’ll be more blunt. He’s certifiable. I remember years ago hearing MacArthur describe him as wanting to turn church into ‘South Park’. He is vulgar, has used profanity in ‘sermons’, he lies about “hearing God’s voice”, links with false teachers, and quit & fled his former Seattle church rather than man up and face church discipline via Matthew 18.
I mean I've seen plenty of folks who say that they're say they're Christian celebrate Christmas or Easter but can't articulate core tenants of Christianity nor do they show fruits of the spirit any stronger than any agnostic or atheist. Wether they are truly Christian or not ultimately belongs to God, but I wouldn't go to them expecting Christian Fellowship or spiritual advice.
While I greatly appreciate the holy post sometimes they do go a bit off the rails all those wonderful ideals that Caitlin espouses sort of the idealistic form of Christianity which has so many counterexamples that doesn't really fundamentally work but all those ideals are in Islam too...
So...
21:58 How do you know Skye? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If you were the keynote speaker at a Christian men's conference and followed a half naked man seductively climbing up and down, what appeared to be a stripper pole, with a swallowed sword in his mouth - how would you have handled it? At the very least, I would have been thrown off course and it would have negatively impacted my presentation. It's easy to criticize from the outside looking in, but being the next man up after an awkward, circus act at a mens conference would be extremely challenging. The rest of the story is that Driscoll honored the leader of the conference wishes and left the stage without making a scene. The audience clearly agreed with Driscoll's mild but pointed rebuke of the strange, pointless opening act. Driscoll was later invited back on the stage by the pastor who kicked him off and they had a heart to heart, restorative conversation. It's worth seeing if you want to see a fuller, clearer picture. From what I'm told, Driscoll ended up speaking later that day. What started off as what looked to be a disaster bound beginning turned into a unifying, spiritually edifying conference. As Paul Harvey would say, "And that is the rest of the story!"
That Driscoll is speaking at a conference where the organizers thought that would be a good thing to include speaks volumes about Driscoll and the conference.
I know some survivors from Mars Hill. It was a disaster.
Mark Driscoll's two brain cells rubbing together and realizing that performative masculinity is inherently erotic: 👁️👄👁️
Skye, good point.. hmm upside down . Wow
- well i(I)'ve seen people look through Phone Books to find their own house
I try to witness as others to an atheist friend. Just like what the atheist your discussing is even trying to press some sort of belief of Christain values they believe something or they wouldn't try so hard to always back their belief or whatever. The over the top.bif they really didn't believe in God or Want to, they wouldn't try so hard. I've stated nicely to the proclaimed atheistist I know the same...
Did Kaitlyn say Christians come from a tradition that isn't threatened by other traditions?! WHAT?! I want to go to HER church! Among evangelicals at least, all I see is the sense of being assailed by the wicked world with their wicked ways, a circling of wagons in fear, resentment, and protection. I know she prefaced her remarks by saying that we (the church/Christians) haven't always done this (interacted with society at large) well, but Christians are threatened more than any group I can think of by a pluralistic society. Maybe I didn't understand.
Saying it is a Jezebel spirit is not blaming women. A spirit is neither male or female.
Oh, save it. I've heard many Evangelicals talk about the Holy Spirit and, funny thing, it's never with "they/them" pronouns. Ditto for the Hornèd One and for any spirit in between. _You_ may think spirits are genderless, but Evangelicals sure don't.
If an Evangelical says "Jezebel spirit" and you don't hear it as female-coded, sorry, you're just being naive.
So are you voting for the guy that claims his uncle was eaten by cannibals in New Guinea??😂😂😂
Not an advisable choice.
Keep posting, Michael! These psychotic posts of yours will surely one day be very helpful to law enforcement officers trying to understand your actions.
For Skye - you didn’t see the guy taking his shirt off as something sexual, and I can understand your point of over judgment. However, there are many bothers in Christ who may be struggling with homosexuality and that event could’ve triggered those desires. Pretty counterproductive for a Christian men’s conference. It’s easy to run the risk of having “manly fun” and crossing the line from glorifying God and edifying the body of Christ, specifically Christian men.
Which simply highlights that men need more practice controlling their own passions. While we shouldn't cause a brother to stumble, that doesn't mean we need to live our lives through the filter of 'could this be seen as sexual'
Is noone else content with following after God and the Christian life for the comfort of God's presense in their life? For the good friend who always listens, always loves even if they don't aprove and helps and guides them to be better healthier people? Do we really need to make eternity as a selling point? As a kid the entire concept of an eternity with my churchmates was enough to make me hope it wasnt true. Being good just for eternal bliss seems so selfishly motivated.
C'mon. All Dawkins is saying is that he would rather live in a country like Norway than one like Turkey. He is saddened by the prospect of the beautiful and uniquely English traditions and music and architecture and common days of celebration disappearing. Seems like a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
Oh my gosh you really Must do a short about the Driscoll episode. I'm still laughing my proverbial turducken off 😂😂😂
also S & K trying hard to suppress the horrified hilarity of it all 😅
Also, Skye are you talking about ministry conferences related to the new apostolic reformation? When people want you to believe that their brand of the miraculous is the real thing they set you up with the spectacle- even in the comments below I see true believers here 😬
- well Toyz 'R' Us but not the stuff for us man (?) come on that can't be in that case but in the case over there down that aisle and not this one over here
Driscoll saw an opportunity to be a martyr and sell books.
One point on Richard Dawkins, from a British Christian: We don't have anything like "Christian Nationalism" in Britain, anything like you do in the US. No-one is even suggesting changing our society into a Christian Theocracy, in the way that some Republicans are in the US. We have just as many kooky right-wingers as you do ( ... Liz Truss 😲 ... ) but we (thankfully) don't have the same connection between the right wing and the Christian lunatic fringe that you do. We have a different lunatic fringe exhibiting cult-like behaviour (e.g. Brexit fanatics), and we have the same racism driving a fear of immigrants as you, but no-one wants a theocracy. We've had state-sponsored religion for ever, and Bishops taking seats in our House of Lords the whole time. Now we have King Charles III in place of the Pope, as Defender of the Faith. We're so over that now. We've had theocracy burnt out of our system.
Richard Dawkins just likes Christmas presents, Easter eggs, and Carols from Kings. And maybe he doesn't like immigrants who bring a different culture (i.e. faith) with them. To suggest he is in any way agreeing with Christian Nationalism is just so far out of left field that it's swinging back in from the right!
I wonder if it somewhat connected to our tendency of emphasizing the puritans as our founding story
-i(I)'m just kidding again
: just kidding as with my 3 other previous comments
If a pastor at a half decent church wants to loose his job, go ahead and introduce David French / Russell Moore nonsense to try to guilt the Church into not supporting Trump.
@robbower5489 Well said.
By "half decent church" do you really mean "building that hosts pro-Trump political rallies instead of religious services"?
@@3eyedcyclops if you understand the new covenant, you’d understand that there are no sacred buildings or services. It’s the new way of spiritual life.
Your analysis assumes a “service” is what God wants.
You may want to figure out what actually happened because of Jesus.
It wasn’t services.
But hey, this podcast is so full of pseudo spirituality. Even one of them was booted from being a pastor.
Cheers.
@@michaelward7051 Right. Because your God wants pro-Trump political rallies. Not religious services.
@@3eyedcyclops Right because you know what I think.
But you don’t. I never said that. But you imagination is strong.
So strong that it deludes you to the evil that is Biden. Biden is terrible. But you just keep bashing Trump. You support Hamas if you are for Biden.
You have great company of believers. Fani Willis. Ok. Enough. I have one more response for you and you will be ignored.
First, we don't like Driscoll, and the entire event....now let's throw in a criticism of Jezebel wording....wow...straw man....Phil sums it up, nothing to consider here...
Keep posting, Michael! These psychotic posts of yours will surely one day be very helpful to law enforcement officers trying to understand your actions.
I first heard the use of the word “nuance” in reference to the brilliant Barack Hussein Obama at the Harvard debate club
Why use his middle name? I've never seen you use other Presidents' middle names.
For the same reason I use the word - brilliant.
@@robbower5489 and why is that?
@@robbower5489 Your thoughts, beliefs, and entire worldview have all of the nuance of a bumper sticker slogan. There, now you've heard the word "nuance" twice in your life.
Welcome to the Liberal Christian Nationalist Podcast.
Enjoy the one sided views.
Cheers
Lol
Welcome to the Christo Fascist comments thread.
Enjoy him one-sidedly calling any views other than his own "one sided".
Cheers
Oh, great, we have a new straw man.
It's the consumer christianity.
Wow, essentially, we have people that do things, say things, and now they are this weeks group to straw man.
Couldn't it just be an evaluation of Mark Driscol? But no, it has to be a rip on people that are simply "guilty of being there."
Hmmm, if you enjoy this chin wagging, carry on.
Keep posting, Michael! These psychotic posts of yours will surely one day help law enforcement understand your actions.
I'm so confused I think I'm loosing IQ points.. The entire manly man conference.. what in the world!!Like a red neck event?
ua-cam.com/video/qLrReItmJ7Y/v-deo.html
"Florida Man" Headlines (as Filtered Through the Bible)
- well megaglopsolussostuff for us (?)